Maddux it is
Per DMN blog
Weird that they "overwhelmed" Maddux...that would appear the necessary treatment for someone like Peterson or Mazzone. Nolan's fingerprints all over this move obviously.
The Rangers will name Mike Maddux pitching coach perhaps as early as Monday, a source with knowledge of the process said Sunday night.
GM Jon Daniels confirmed only that the Rangers had been in touch with Maddux this weekend. He did not confirm or deny the report. The Rangers were able to contact Maddux about the job officially on Saturday, a day after his contract with Milwaukee expired. Maddux, 47, has been the Brewers pitching coach the last six seasons. Milwaukee had extended him an offer to remain as new manager Ken Macha's pitching coach, but Maddux refrained from signing anything until talking to the Rangers.
Maddux, the oider brother of Greg Maddux, is likely to cite Nolan Ryan's presence as a reason for electing to leave for the Rangers. Maddux's first job as a coach was with the Ryan-owned Double-A Round Rock Express in 2000.
In Maddux's first year in Milwaukee, the Brewers posted a 5.02 ERA and ranked 13th in the NL, but by this season, they had improved to 3.85, which ranked second in the league.
UPDATE: Brewers GM Doug Melvin is confirming that Maddux is coming to the Rangers. Melvin told the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel that the Rangers "overwhelmed" Maddux with a multi-year deal. I have no details on the contract, but you can be pretty certain Maddux will receive at least three years.
I liked Peterson better.
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Good now we can move on
I’m curious to see how the young pitchers react to him.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
The same way young Rangers pitchers always react
By sucking.
"Colt mccoy sucks, mack brown needs to be fired." - Longhorn
by LSBUser on Nov 2, 2008 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
Snooze.
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by inactive lsb user on Nov 2, 2008 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
This is an important hire
Don’t really know squat about either of the guys, but this is one that I really hope we got right.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
excellent
"He wants to double the capital gains tax, or almost double it," Huizenga said. "I'd rather give it to charity than to him."
Big hire
Hope they got it right. I was pretty surprised to hear Doug Melvin say that he was pretty sure Maddux would stay, and it looks like he didn’t really have a handle on the situation after all. Not the first time we’ve seen Melvin misdiagnose a decision by someone he was trying to recruit.
Ah the lat 90's
Who can forget the days of: Zeile, Royce Clayton, Luis Alicea, Mark Mclemore,Kelly Dransfeldt, Domingo Cedeno, Mike Simms, Ruben Mateo, Randy Velarde, Benji Gil, Alex Diaz, Fernando Tatis, Roberto Kelly, Todd Hollandsworth etc.
Dang
I remember every one of those guys except for Alex Diaz.
by groundingout on Nov 2, 2008 11:16 PM CST up reply actions
Maddux
Anyone with any info on him? Style?
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
Found this on a Brewers forum:
Best of luck to Mike, but at this point I have no problem with the Brewers having someone different in the role as well, as long as that person shares Mike’s beliefs about not overworking young pitchers and pitch counts.
Not exactly a detailed and informative report but I thought Maddux’s “beliefs” he noted were interesting. I know next to nothing about this guy, but judging by the way the Brewers used their pitchers last season I would not have thought he was a big believer in pitch counts. If this guy does strongly believe in pitch counts and not over-working young pitchers, it allays some of my fears about getting a Nolan guy.
Peterson
that seemed to be the knock on Peterson (pitch counts etc.) as far as how he would fit in with Nolan. I probably would have preferred Peterson, though I don’t know enough about either, but it’s nice to get a semi proven guy in here.
by groundingout on Nov 2, 2008 11:17 PM CST up reply actions
I'm glad they got the guy they wanted, I guess.
That’s about all the boner I can muster for the hiring of a pitching coach.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
A few miscellaneous things I dug up through the miracles of BP/MLB.com/Brew Crew Ball
Available here:
Maddux has been described by Will Carroll of Baseball Prospectus as a “strong-willed coach” with the ability to make quick and effective fixes. He is often credited for the remarkable turnarounds of Derrick Turnbow, Danny Kolb and Francisco Cordero, the latter two of whom flourished immediately after coming to the Brewers from the Rangers.
Additionally, southpaws Chris Capuano and Doug Davis have previously lavished praise upon Maddux, with Capuano citing Maddux’s vast wealth of pitching knowledge, and Davis noting that Maddux enabled him to “shorten [his] arm path,” facilitating his emergence as an above-average Major League starting pitcher after the Rangers lost him via waivers in April 2003.
For what it’s worth, the esteemed Jeff Sackmann of Brew Crew Ball — and creator of the superb Minor League Splits — wrote in June 2006 that Rick Helling’s employment of a new cutter was the brainchild of Maddux; Helling went on to post a 2.39 ERA in 49 innings for the Brewers in 2005 and a 4.11 ERA in 35 innings in 2006, prolonging his once-fading career by two years. It’s probably not a stretch to assume that Maddux’s instruction was a significant factor in the revival of Helling.
by Joey Matschulat on Nov 3, 2008 12:13 AM CST reply actions
Holland
May as well get him up asap so Maddux can teach him that cutter.
by groundingout on Nov 3, 2008 12:57 AM CST up reply actions
Heh. I had the same thought when I about the cutter in Jamey's summary.
From Jamey’s report today (11/3):
The reputation that Maddux has secured for himself after three seasons in
Round Rock and six in Milwaukee speaks for itself. He’s known for a calm,
cerebral approach and an ability to get the best out of his pitchers. For
his emphasis on preparation and pitch sequencing. For his work with young
arms, which was obviously a key aspect of the job description here going
forward.
And for his results. In his six seasons coaching in Milwaukee, the Brewers
staff had a 4.39 ERA, including a 3.87 ERA in 2008, second best in the
National League. The Rangers’ ERA over the same span has been 4.98,
including last year’s 5.97, baseball’s worst.
Of course, you don’t chalk a disparity like that up to the pitching coach
alone. The two clubs have run completely different sets of pitchers out to
the mound.
But the Rangers and Maddux-coached Brewers had Doug Davis in common, for
example. Davis went 21-21, 5.09 in five Rangers seasons. Picked up by
Milwaukee in 2003 — Maddux’s first season there — after both Texas and
Toronto had given up on him, Davis went 37-36, 3.92 in four Brewers seasons.
It was under Maddux’s watch that Davis established himself as a big league
starting pitcher.
Also in his first year with the Brewers, Maddux took Danny Kolb, whom Texas
had let go after he’d compiled a 5.01 ERA in parts of four frustrating
seasons as a Ranger, and in his first year with Milwaukee he posted a 1.96
ERA and became the Brewers’ closer. The following year he had a 2.98 ERA
and made the All-Star Team. Traded to Atlanta, Kolb saw his ERA balloon
back up to 5.93.
Francisco Cordero was awful in his final Rangers season, posting a 4.81 ERA,
the worst of his career since his rookie campaign six years earlier. Traded
that summer to Milwaukee, he put up an ERA the rest of the way of 1.69, a
career best.
After pitching himself out of the big leagues in 2003, Rick Helling
resurfaced with Milwaukee in 2005, and under Maddux’s tutelage he unleashed
a new cut fastball and posted a 2.39 ERA in seven starts and eight relief
appearances.
But more to the point is the work Maddux has done with young starters
Yovanni Gallardo and Manny Parra, and Ben Sheets and Davis and Chris Capuano
before them.
Go Rangers!
Oo, cutter!
So now all of our young pitchers can become John Danks!
…. What do you mean, It’s not an automatic all-star maker?
Brandon McCarthy...
that’s all I have to say. If he can turn that guy around then that alone will be worth every penny we overpaid him. Wouldn’t hurt to get the young guys going either. But I agree with everyone that this is a huge hiring in the process that we’re in. When you have the surplus of pitching that we now have coming up, it’s worthless without it panning out. Maddox has quite the task ahead of him.
by slimshadty12 on Nov 3, 2008 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If I were a really good pitching coach and knew it
this would be a pretty interesting job. You obviously have whatever effect the park has, and you have whatever impact the heat makes. But you have basically a blank slate job with zero expectations, and it looks like you’ll have a lot of tools to work with over the next couple of years, especially for a situation that is perceived by right at 100% of the public as hopeless. Your other challenge is that you’d better see eye to eye with Nolan, and you’ll certainly share credit with him if you succeed. But for an ambitious sort, this seems pretty intriguing. Hopefully Maddux is up to it.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 3, 2008 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think the Rangers pitching coach job
certainly has expectations attached to it.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 3, 2008 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
It has expectations from his bosses, as does any job. But outside of that, no one outside of the industry itself (and probably not much of the industry even) expects the Rangers to have pitching success. Certainly no one in any aspect of the media or anyone who lives in DFW does. There may be hopes, but that’s about it.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 3, 2008 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
I dunno
I guess you could spin it that it is widely known that there is a ton of pitching talent coming this way. I think it’s reasonable to expect some success with those guys.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 3, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
Think about it this way
If he is successful even moderately, one can imagine what label will be attached to him:
“He engineered a turnaround for the worst pitching staff in baseball”
That alone will make him the best pitching coach in baseball in the eye of a majority of his peers.
Yeah, I know
But I think people know the talent that is coming up — what if he fails with guys like Main/Feliz/Holland? Is he just another guy, or did he screw up the best pitching talent to come through Texas in a long time? I think there’s certainly some expectations for success from people who really know the Rangers system.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 3, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
I think that depends on how you define "widely"
It’s known within the industry and among people who are really up on prospects. But that doesn’t make up much of the media/public, which is where a public reputation is formed. WIthin the industry I could see expectations raise as time goes on and he has highly regarded prospects to work with. But I do think that there is a stigma in baseball about pitching here, so he would get a lot of points for that.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 3, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
Fair enough
I think if you asked Maddux whose opinion he valued more, the media/public or his baseball peers, I’m sure you’d know the answer.
But, you’re right that the media and fair-weather fans of DFW don’t expect him to be a savior.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 3, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah for his career
it’s certainly more important to be respected inside of baseball, obviously.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 3, 2008 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
A part of me
strongly suspects that the Texas Rangers will never ever EVER have sustained decent pitching until there is a roof over that stinkin’ ballpark.
Considering we have seen
a few pitchers, like Nolan and Kenny Rogers have success, I suspect it has much more to do with the pitchers and pitching coaches than it does the ballpark.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
Does this make sense to anyone?
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 3, 2008 2:16 PM CST up reply actions
You think
it’s more about the heat than the jetstream?
Just curious……
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
da heat
Avg high temps for our division and some other MLB cities you might suspect are hot also: LINK
Interesting
thanks
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
Northern CA weather
Love it.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 3, 2008 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
We have had pitchers
who had success in this ballpark.
We have just seen a lot of crappy, crappy pitchers come through here, and ridiculously bad pitching coaches.
I think the Ballpark has damn little to do with the lack of success of pitchers.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
I'd say I'm in total disagreement
A nice air-conditioned covered ballpark would do absolute WONDERS for the sustained success of Texas Rangers pitching.
From health to stamina to FA attractiveness to a more pitcher friendly park-factor.
Air condition the ballpark
and Millwood is still a fat out of shape pitcher who tries hard about one year in three, Padilla is still an erratic headcase, and Jamey Wright is still a crappy pitcher. Except they wouldn’t be as hot. This was their record before they joined the Rangers, I’m not sure why you would think it would change because they are air conditioned.
At any rate, you aren’t going to see an airconditioned ballpark til at least 2024, so you may as well get used to it.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
I agree with both of you
It’s unrealistic to think of putting a roof on the stadium so you might as well do the very best you can to get actual talented pitchers in here.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
2024 - Exactly - we agree on that at least
Another factor to consider is that an a/c park in Norf Texas will avg more fans, who won’t be beaten down by the heat so badly that they can’t sustain an electric positive atmosphere that might effect the focus and intensity of Ranger players, including pitchers and their gloved defenders. Mo fans might mean a bigger payroll to pay those FA’s who now love our ballpark.
I see nothing but positives.
I doubt it changes much on the field.
Speaking personally, I’m not a fan of retractable roofs. I have yet to see a ballpark designed with them that can stack up to Pittsburgh, SF, or any of the other open air ballparks from a game watching experience.
I really, really think you overrate how much impact it will have on the players. You put crappy players out there, and they will just be crappy air conditioned players.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
I hated the idea of indoor baseball
until I drove to Houston to watch a game a coupla years ago. Man was that nice. Imagine weekend day baseball in Arlington again. Wow.
I think whether your pitchers are crappy, mediocre or good is immaterial to the effect the heat has on the players’ ability to sustain their peak effectiveness individually or collectively.
Your mistaken if you think I’m saying a crappy pitcher will turn into a great pitcher if you put a roof over his head. I’m saying a crappy pitcher will be able to sustain his best longer over a game and over his franchise stay. Getting good pitchers is great. Having them pitch their best and become a franchise known for it’s pitching won’t happen unless their talent is protected from the cruel heat.
Until then … 2024? … all we can hope for is a short window opening where a quantity of quality has a winning season here and there. Maybe Feliz, Holland, Main, etc. are going to do just that here shortly.
I'm not a fan
of minute maid, and I’ve seen more than 20 games there. Also, I don’t think they have the top open nearly enough.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
There's an effin' hill in centerfield.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 3, 2008 11:44 PM CST up reply actions
any chance
he’ll recruit big C C for us?
perhaps a ‘pitching-coach’ discount?
wishful thinking?
Eh yeah, you're probably right.
"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin
by utlonghorn24 on Nov 3, 2008 12:57 AM CST up reply actions
Or Sheets for that matter...
"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin
by utlonghorn24 on Nov 3, 2008 12:57 AM CST up reply actions
Mil
was already a rumored team for a catcher for pitcher swap…I gotta think this move increases that chance?
by groundingout on Nov 3, 2008 12:58 AM CST up reply actions
I really hope this works out for the Rangers
I can say this because they’re in the AL. In any case, as a Brewers fan, I’m kind of going to miss the guy. He does get a lot of credit from his pitchers for helping them out, and if he can repeat his talents at raising up scrub pitchers from the depths of suck in Texas things are absolutely going to rock.
Of course, then you look at Derrick Turnbow and you wonder if it’s smoke and mirrors….
(I’ve been lurking here a year and it takes /this/ to get me to sign up; I almost did during the Laird-playing-3rd fiasco.)
Well
Now that we have you aboard …
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by inactive lsb user on Nov 3, 2008 9:01 AM CST up reply actions
I guess when they didn't jump all over
Peterson, it was obvious that Maddux was the top choice.
Hopefully Maddux can jump start the pitching staff, or JD is gonna be toast.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
Ya know
I really don’t think JD had too much to do with this hire myself. Based on past connections I think it’s a safe bet this one’s on Nolan – though I have to agree with the thought that if Maddux turns out to be another Mark Connor, popular opinion will likely pin it on JD.
"[Tim McCarver and Joe Buck] are the Gabe Gross and Ben Broussard of the broadcasting booth." - dirkatron
by LSJ on Nov 3, 2008 7:46 AM CST up reply actions
I think JD had plenty of input
I’m not necessarily replying to you, but just because Maddux has a tie to Nolan doesn’t mean JD wasn’t on board with it.
I don’t understand why just about every move the front office makes is broken down into either a High Heat Nolan move or a Boy Blunder Donut Move. I think it’s much more likely they’re in agreement on the issue.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
True, true
It just kind of seems to me that we’re collecting guys with past ties to Nolan here. First we got Jackie Moore, and then we suddenly blow off Rick Peterson to go hard after Mike Maddux. I’m not saying JD hasn’t been on board with these moves (I’m sure we would have heard of some front office tension if he wasn’t), but I bet I know who probably recommended these guys in the first place.
Irregardless, at least we’re not going after any more Ron Washington-recommended guys, which pleases me greatly.
"[Tim McCarver and Joe Buck] are the Gabe Gross and Ben Broussard of the broadcasting booth." - dirkatron
by LSJ on Nov 3, 2008 8:28 AM CST up reply actions
Whether or not he had input
the GM is basicly on the hook for the teams performance. If they don’t get significantly better in the next couple of years, the clock is going to run out on him. If he liked Peterson more than Maddux, and didn’t go to the wall for Peterson, its just as much on him as anyone else.
So whether he preferred Maddux, or preferred Peterson and just didn’t object to him, its pretty much on JD in the end.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
I guess my question is
How do we know JD didn’t say he wanted Peterson over Maddux? It doesn’t do much good to make that kind of info public. If you’re Maddux, how would you feel if the GM came out and said, “Hey, we like Maddux, but Peterson is our guy because Nolan wanted him.”?
I think assumptions about how Nolan and JD are working together are really baseless.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
I think the assumption you have to make
is that either JD wanted Maddux, or didn’t dislike him enough to object loudly, and if Maddux fails, it’s 100% on JD, because JD is the GM.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
And if our pitching gets better
Then Nolan made a great hire right?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I don't think anyone disagrees with that
but what’s your window with Maddux? You can’t be expecting a miraculous one-year turnaround.
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by inactive lsb user on Nov 3, 2008 9:03 AM CST up reply actions
I don't know.
Check out the immediate turnarounds of past Ranger castoffs: Cordero, Kolb, Helling.
Maybe Maddux just happened to see something he could work with in each of those situations. Maybe he’ll see something in a pitcher or two all ready on the roster.
We all know the metrics to look at. If the Rangers next year suddenly reduce walks and notch up strikeouts, we’d have to do some serious headscratching to attribute that to something other than Maddux.
What if Maddux teaches McCarthy the cutter and he becomes a sensation. That thought is very funny to me.
Go Rangers!
I think
JD has a 2 year window.
I just think a GM has trouble lasting past 5 years without being competitive.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
Two years
sounds about right to me too. Of course if they don’t blow it I think think that things could look pretty darn bright by then.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 3, 2008 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah,
I don’t even believe he necessarily has to make the playoffs by then. Around 90 wins with momentum is probably enough to get him extended. However, if it is around an 80 win team, I don’t like his chances.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
I can agree with that
There’s enough talent that will show up in the next 2 years that should help his cause.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
Well it's been assumed around here before
That Nolan has overruled JD on different decisions. I don’t see how anyone can say that Nolan has the ability to overrule JD, but then place the blame on JD.
I agree with you conceptually, that the GM is always responsible. However, there are people that think Nolan is the one running things, so I find it hard to have it both ways (and I’m not saying you specifically are doing that).
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
Wow, I completely missed this news last night
It’s not like this wasn’t expected so there’s really not much to say except I guess Nolan got his man. Hope he works out…
"[Tim McCarver and Joe Buck] are the Gabe Gross and Ben Broussard of the broadcasting booth." - dirkatron
How about Washington?
I am interested to see how Ron Washington reacts to the hiring as he recommended Rick Petersen. If the organization doesn’t trust Wash’s wishes for his own staff, shouldn’t they replace Wash with somebody they do trust.
Hopefully Maddux will be the answer in getting the most out of these young pitchers, but if Wash uses them incorrectly will we get maximum results.
Go Cubbies and Go Rangers!
I agree with this.
Especially since they booted Washington’s bench coach to the curb. I prefer to let managers choose their subordinates whereever possible, and if you don’t trust them to do it, you need to be on the lookout for another manager.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
You should ask Billy Beane what he thinks of his on-field pupp, I mean managers.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 3, 2008 9:03 AM CST up reply actions
heh
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by inactive lsb user on Nov 3, 2008 9:05 AM CST up reply actions
Disagree with this aspect...
Why do all managers have to be Bill Parcells or even Buck Showalter for that matter. Pick guys that are good at what they’re given. Wash should only have to worry about managing his players not whether or not he agrees with the pitching mechanics and workout regimen of Maddux.
Why should we trust Washington to make the correct hiring of a pitching coach? What does he know about pitching? Atleast you can say Nolan does and it’s also JD’s job to connect the dots on the right hirings. I’m tired of the all powerful managers. Just do your job and let the front office do theirs.
by slimshadty12 on Nov 3, 2008 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
Hmm....
I wonder what kind of relationship Maddux has had with Sheets over the years.
As others have said I sure hope the Rangers got this one right. There really is no reason for failure with this staff over the next 3 years now. They have a pretty well respected pitching coach and a lot of pitching prospects and talent. It has to work out sooner or later, doesn’t it?
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

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