Monday morning things
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 24, 2008 8:14 AM CST
175 comments
Another quiet morning.
Mike Hindman has the latest installment of his prospect previews up, looking at the top 5 relief prospects in the Rangers system.
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This is what really excited me
After seeing just one appearance from this little guy in the AZL, the Rangers aggressively sent the 17 year old to Clinton and he responded by dominating hitters who were — on average — five years his senior.
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Nov 24, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, reply
It honestly seems as though the Rangers in the minors are really pushing our kids into higher leagues with other players that are way much older, and yet they are doing work in those leagues. Think of the confidence boast that they get from stuff like this
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Nov 24, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wonder if we'll ever see any
of these guys in the majors.
Nolan Ryan is the Greatest Pitcher ever, because Google says so.
"BTW I’m officially welching ab03. Yeah I planned too all along, but I figured I’d try to get off the hook with double or nothing first."- Sharky
by DJCahill on Nov 24, 2008 8:33 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'd actually be pretty surprised
if Young doesn’t get a cup of coffee at least at some point. I’ve seen nary a negative word about him, and all you’re expecting is a LOOGY anyway.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 24, 2008 9:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Corey Young at #1
Interesting. Particularly interesting to me, because I had absolutely no memory of us drafting him, or being aware of his existence for that matter.
Also, I’m pretty surprised to see Fabio Castillo that high – ahead of Strop and Beau Jones for that matter. Irregardless, good stuff as usual from Mike.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Nov 24, 2008 8:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Young is nasty
His curve is really, really good. Very effective lefty.
by jparks77 on Nov 24, 2008 8:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cool
Another CJ Wilson, perhaps?
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Nov 24, 2008 9:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Evan Grant seems to like C-You, so... No on that comp.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 24, 2008 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nah
Probably closer to a Mike Venafro type.
by jparks77 on Nov 24, 2008 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Young
has more deception in his delivery and a better fastball.
by jparks77 on Nov 24, 2008 10:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, hears the draft video.
" He throws it where he wants it, his breaking ball kept getting better and better and of course God gave him that special arm. He's great." ~ Neftali Feliz on Derek Holland.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 24, 2008 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Regardless!
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 24, 2008 10:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've tried
I’ve tried…
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Nov 24, 2008 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Laughter
I am suprised he didn’t make this list.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 24, 2008 8:50 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
His non-inclusion brought a chuckle from me.
by TRanger on Nov 24, 2008 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I’m sort of alone in my lack of enthusiasm for that guy. I don’t understand why everyone is so high on a RH minor league reliever with a K/9 of 6.60 and a K/BB of 1.95 (combined BK / FRI in 2008). I’ll be happy if I’m wrong about him, but I don’t see much of a future there.
by mjh on Nov 24, 2008 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you had taken the rankings
to top 10 he makes it, but yeah, I don’t see any strong argument in ranking him ahead of those other guys, unless you don’t rank Castillo as a reliever.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 24, 2008 9:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He wouldn't have been sixth
or seventh and probably not eighth either…. I didn’t care much for what I saw of Bannister, but I probably would have gone with him at #6 by virtue of the fact that the Rangers — for some reason — think he’s terribly important. Reneir Bermudez likely would have been #7. I also like Garr better than Laughter, though I’m not too high on either one of them.
by mjh on Nov 24, 2008 9:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bermudez
Did he just look raw to you? Stuff overrated?
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not alone.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 24, 2008 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
on the Boston news front
apparently they have made a one year offer to Varitek that Boras is likely to call an insult, and they have made a six million dollar offer to Tawaza that may or may not have already been accepted.
The take away from this is that they could have potentially added another young pitcher and moved a step away from Varitek. Take from that what you will…
on the A’s news front, they apparently have a 4 year, 48M offer on the table for Furcal and he could potentially sign soon. Damn. I remember the good old days when they were poor and we had money.
by clark on Nov 24, 2008 9:04 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
If Billy Beane brings in both Holliday (in a contract year)
and Furcal to this team, that’s about 10-12 more wins for this team plus if you add in that younger players (that are actually talented) tend to improve quickly….
…. too early to make concrete predictions but if they get Furcal, the Rangers (currently constructed) are significantly behind Oakland going into next year.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Nov 24, 2008 9:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
The good news is that I’m not so sure that these moves put them well ahead past 2009. The bad news is that this signals that we now root for the team that will easily be the cheapest in this division. We’re the Pittsburgh of the ALW.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 10:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You really think
Furcal is that good?
by brettgardner on Nov 24, 2008 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
To me
it’s that they had a few really big holes and are filling some of them pretty emphatically. It’s kind of like Texas plugging #1, #2 starter and closer with solid to very good guys for those spots. It’s weird that their holes are things like left field, but they are.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 10:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess.
He’s above average, but he’s not ARod or anything. I don’t really see it as being analogous to filling a #1 or #2 pitching spot. It’s more like adding a solid MR.
by brettgardner on Nov 24, 2008 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe that Furcal (when healthy)
is a star. He generally has a good but not great obp but he’s definitely a catalyst.
I thought he had a back injury last year and given the effect of back injuries on this team (Crosby, Chavez, Kotsay) in the past, it’s curious why they would go after Furcal.
What Beane is doing this off-season is directly attacking the weaknesses of last year’s squad.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Nov 24, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
furcal
if he plays like he did in april, then yeah, he is a superstar. i don’t know if he’s that good, especially in the AL
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 24, 2008 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, zywica.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Nov 24, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Strop
was hardly worth ranking. He is pretty unlikely to make it through the Rule V, if past drafts are any indication. But thank God we saved Willie Eyre. It would have been tough watching him emerge as a marginally useful 30 year old right hander in someone else’s pen.
by clark on Nov 24, 2008 9:13 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Nov 24, 2008 9:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Strop
Let me ask this again…
If a team is willing to take Strop in the Rule 5 draft, why wouldn’t they have just signed him to a major league deal when he was a free agent?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 24, 2008 9:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Handshake deal of some kind?
Leaving aside Rule 5 risk the FO quotes are uniformly enthusiastic. They seem to not want to lose him, and think plenty enough of him to put him on the roster.
I bet something’s in play to keep him a Ranger.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 24, 2008 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree with your logic
Teams have shown to be fickle though, and it all depends on his injury outlook. If he’s healthy all 30 teams would want him on their 40 man roster, so the fact that they didn’t had to do with complications and/or future concerns over his status, factors that can change at least some in the matter of 2-6 months (depending on how you look at it).
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think
that delivery has anything to do with his injury? That’s a pretty quick and violent arm movement.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 24, 2008 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Willie Eyre
what a baffling move.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 24, 2008 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was a mistake, myself.
Jon Daniels: alright, I just signed off on the Littleton DFA… now who was I going to put on the 40 in his place again?
Office monkey: Errr…
JD: Works for me.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Nov 24, 2008 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know
this is MLB fickle to me. If they hadn’t gotten the notion that other teams might be interested, I can’t imagine that they’d be willing to bet anything on him. Daniels and Hart do love 95 mph FBs in the pen, though.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No Hamburger?
I figured he’d truly be a bullpen specialty.
by Coolbean04 on Nov 24, 2008 9:47 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
damn
our payroll actually ranks lower than our record did.
13th worst record, 10th lowest payroll – and apparently we can’t afford a real ML third baseman.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 24, 2008 10:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Getting a "real" 3B
would probably do little for the column on the left while changing the column on the right for the worse.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 24, 2008 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
Metcalf seems like the definition of “replacement level” in my opinion. Going into a year with a replacement level player scheduled for a starting role without a doubt has an influence on the W-L record.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 24, 2008 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Any word on Duran and what he's doing this winter
I’d love to see Duran practicing some third base defense and given more of a starting opportunity next season. He’s not a long-term solution, but a young player with nice potential like him would be my favorite in house option for third base. Especially with the AAA roster already having their MI filled with (hopefully) Andrus and Vallejo for most of the season. And I understand that Vallejo will probably start in AA.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 24, 2008 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
poor
Seattle
I guess you heard Fat Joe left Atlantic.
by Haeger Champ on Nov 24, 2008 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So...
Boston and Pitttsburgh where the only “perfectly balanced” teams in ’08?
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Nov 24, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hmm,
strange to see Beau Jones only at 5. I thought he would be ranked higher than that.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 24, 2008 10:07 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think that list
could have just as easily been flipped over. That’s not to say that I disagree with the current order really, but those guys are all major league prospects with nice pen arsenals. I like Jones.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 10:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Where would you rank those guys overall in our system
Do any of those guys make your top 20?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 24, 2008 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not for me, but I think that all of them might be in the next tier or two. Castillo is obviously an enigma, but health allowed I think that the others will all pitch in the majors, and the three lefties look like they have enough stuff to have a shot at a career. For Strop it’s all about health. The ability is certainly there.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rule 5
mlbtraderumors has this list :
Juan Abreu
Jordan Brown
Bobby Brownlie
Matt Fox
Alan Horne
Kei Igawa
Chuck Lofgren
Daniel Mayora
Eduardo Morlan
Chris Nicoll
Jay Rainville
James Skelton
Tim Stauffer
Wade Townsend
Philippe Valiquette
Donald Veal
Ryan Wagner
Kyle Waldrop
Veal seems interesting. Maybe Lofgren?
by robert_d_wilfong on Nov 24, 2008 10:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Seems like more first-rounders than usual.
Tim Stauffer, quite a spill for that player.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 24, 2008 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
strop not on there
i would think igawa and townsend get taken ahead of strop and probably a few others but I’m not as familiar wtih them
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 24, 2008 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wagner, Townsend, Stauffer, Brownlie...
I saw all of these guys pitch in college. Wow, I really thought at least one of them would make it. My best bet was always Townsend.
by Michael Cave on Nov 24, 2008 10:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Townsend was dominant in college
stupid curse of Rice pitchers. I thought he was going to be awesome in the pros.
by JBImaknee on Nov 24, 2008 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The idea that you would rather have Willie Eyre than Morlan or Horne or maybe even Nicoll would surprise me.
And for you on-base junkies, check out Skelton’s numbers. He is the funniest fit for a catcher ever. Skinny little guy with little power but good speed and practially impossible to get out.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 10:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
skelton
that guy hasn’t ever come close to a full season of playing. his whole career of above 400 OBP could be a sample size error
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 24, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
Holding up is certainly an issue, but including his current fall league stint, he has over 900 ABs of over 400 OBP. Why in the world would you think that’s an error? It could be a number of things, but it’s not sample size. He had 300 ABs of .456 OBP in A+ and AA this season for goodness sakes. Are you just trying to make my head explode before lunch?
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i was joking
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 24, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good
My left eye started twitching, and steam was starting to come out of my ears. :)
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Veal & Lofgren
flamed out pretty quickly.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Nov 24, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
By the way
remember how we were told that we should jump up and down over the idea of getting Horne for Gagne? A year ago Yankees fans that I knew were convinced that this guy was front roto material.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so with that list...
Should the Rangers take a flier on one of those guys and try to keep them up all year? I really dont, big names on that list however a lot of flameouts. The two names that would intrigue me would be skelton (had to look him up but you are right, interesting skill set but we do have a catcher or two ha) and Morlan.
by Michael Cave on Nov 24, 2008 10:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They can't, IIRC
In order to draft a rule 5 guy, they have to have the space available at the deadline (last week). Since they are at 40, they can’t draft anybody.
Of course, I could be totally F.O.S.
by bking on Nov 24, 2008 10:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You are correct
Obama thinks he is a good talker, but he is often undisciplined when he speaks. He needs to understand that as President, his words will be scrutinized and will have impact whether he intends it or not. In this regard, President Bush is an excellent model; Obama should take a lesson from his example. -- John Hinderacker
by Lucas on Nov 24, 2008 11:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so if the team
was to clear a spot on the 40 man roster through a trade between now and then, they still would not be eligable to draft anyone, even though they have room on the 40?
by clark on Nov 24, 2008 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
correct
we won’t be participating in the Rule 5 draft.
But, hey, nobody will be stealing Willie Eyre from us, so keep your chin up.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 24, 2008 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's too bad
that is always a fun little thing to look forward to, even if it rarely has any long term significance. I probably would have rather taken a flier on a guy like Morlan than protected Willie Eyre or John Bannister, but whateva.
by clark on Nov 24, 2008 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
However...
…another team could draft a player in the Rule 5 draft, then trade that player to the Rangers after the draft is over.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 24, 2008 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
fabio castro
so is he a star yet?
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 24, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Only a matter of time :)
Seriously though, his control/command seems to be getting worse, not better. He’s still only 23, but that’s not much of a trend.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 4:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
compared to Daniel Haigwood he is a star
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 24, 2008 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was intrigued by Horne
but only as a throw in on any potential deal.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 24, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rangers in on Tazawa…
http://www.npbtracker.com/2008/11/not-so-fast-boston-rangers-make-offer-to-tazawa/
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 24, 2008 10:49 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Nice
Texas director of Asia-Pacific scouting Jim Colborn met with Tazawa for nearly two hours, and reportedly made the best offer yet received. No details have been disclosed so far.
by coolaid on Nov 24, 2008 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D94L7LE81&show_article=1
the Rangers’ proposal is the most attractive in terms of contract amount and duration among those that have been put forward
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 24, 2008 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
EFFING SWEET.
That would pump me up.
A lot.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 24, 2008 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Same here
Reports on Tazawa are varying, but this is apparently a top ten talent, draftwise, however you cut it. Why wouldn’t you want that guy?
Plus, with Colborn’s ties and the fact that they weren’t the first to make a big offer, I think they’re in good position to not piss people off.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
top 10 talent?
when was the last time a sub six foot right hander with sub 90s velo went in the top 10?
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 24, 2008 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's the thing
Not every scouting report has him sub 90s. Think of it like your distaste for Masterson. Some others really like him despite the things you don’t like.
I don’t know what to make of Tazawa, because what I’ve read is all over the map.
As far as the height, as you know, a lot of these Japanese guys are working on a bit of a different scale.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
huh
Have you seriously read credible sources (not including his agent) indicating that he would go in the top 10 in the draft?
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 24, 2008 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll look and see if any of them actually say that
Are you familiar with a lot of amateur players who get six million but wouldn’t go in the top ten?
Here is another comment on him:
Tazawa is armed with a fastball that touches 97 mph but typically sticks around 91-93…Tazawa also owns a strong curveball which he isn’t afraid to use and a slider which is defined as being ‘biting’
I’ll look for some more of what I’ve read.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Besides the Red Sox, Tazawa has drawn interest from the Mariners, Tigers and Braves. He throws in the mid-90s, with a curveball, changeup and split-fingered fastball.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Junichi Tazawa, a hard-throwing right-handed pitcher who wants to play in the majors, was passed over by Japan’s 12 professional teams in Thursday’s draft of amateur players.
Tazawa, whose fastball reaches 97 m.p.h., previously asked Japanese teams not to select him in the draft as he intends to pursue a career in the majors.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The very fact
that a few teams are willing to spend that kind of cash makes the top 10 comp applicable.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 24, 2008 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well,
the Rangers have sent over their best talent evaluators and apparently they have come to the conclusion that Tazawa has solid enough stuff to ultimately pitch in the big leagues and to warrant a significant financial commitment on their part.
That, in and of itself, is a pretty damning indictment of his long term potential.
by clark on Nov 24, 2008 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
as have Boston and Atlanta, two organizations who seem to know what they’re doign when it comes to locating good pitchers.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
for the record
i was being sarcastic about the Rangers. But it is a valid point that teams with far less checkered histories in terms of pitching talent evaluation have aggressively pursued him.
also, Allen really seems to doubt his stamina more than anything else. Obviously the guy has never been through a Nolan Ryan offseason regimen.
.
by clark on Nov 24, 2008 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Rangers best talent evaluators
also decided that Brandon McCarthy would be a better ML pitcher than John Danks, so I’m skeptical, but as zywica points out below, Boston and Atlanta are in on him, so I’ll just reserve judgement and hope it turns out for the best.
Obviously I haven’t seen him pitch, so I shouldn’t act like I know what I’m talking about, because I don’t.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 24, 2008 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously none of us do
We’re just going off of limited facts available to us. But I think that people are too quick to run with Jim Allen’s comments, and I think that you guys are way too predisposed to negativity when it comes to Japanese players.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
second sentence
I’m guilty as charged. I’m talking like OJ guilty.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 24, 2008 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
also
presumably the Rangers sent their best talent evaluators to Japan last year and they came back with a recommendation that Fukumori get a ML deal, so some skepticism is warranted IMO.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 24, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Forget the Rangers
How about Boston? Why the heck are they all over this guys’ tail? Weren’t they proven to be pretty genius on Matsuzaka?
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hard to compare our situation to Boston's
I think the Sox could hand the guy a $20 million check and never miss a beat. With the way things are being run around here, $6 million spent here means $10 million that won’t be spent anywhere else. Japanese pitchers with no professional track record just seem like an incredibly risky investment on our part.
Sorta like the folks cashing their paychecks at the liquor store and spending half of it on lotto tickets. Nothing wrong with lotto tickets (or Japanese pitchers), but some people can afford them and others really can’t.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 24, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
You can say that about every single high profile player who crosses one of their draft slots and every single international FA. They obviously don’t go after them like this. How many times has Boston given $6+ million to an amateur?
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
one last comment
Were the Red Sox really genius with Matsuzaka? I mean everyone knew what type of pitcher he was, and everybody wanted him, Boston just had the most money to spend on him. I don’t see the genius in that.
Now a case can be made for their genius in getting Okajima…
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 24, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
5 years / $ 100 million for Dice K
I’d say it was a good investment. He pitched 200+ innings and was essentially the #2 starter on a World Series winner,
This year he went 18-3 and was the ace of a team that won 95 games and made the playoffs.
So far so good to me.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Nov 24, 2008 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
He has been as good of a value as any really expensive FA pitcher in a long time.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
His peripherals befuddle me.
Good K rate. Horrid BB rate. Great HR rate. But definitely flyball pitcher.
Maybe he can continue to be one of those guys who lives with a lot of walks and flyballs that don’t turn into HR’s, but he scares me.
Certainly he’s not as good as his 2.90 ERA this year would indicate, but who knows how good he’ll be going forward.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 24, 2008 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever he is or will be
it’s worth what they gave him.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In 29 starts this season,
Dice K had 19 starts with a Game Score of 50+.
That’s a good pitcher.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Nov 24, 2008 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Two years of ~4.4 tRA is worth 100mm?
I dunno.
I guess his results this year were pretty spectacular. 167 innings of 2.90 ERA baseball is pretty sweet. But he struck me as spectacularly lucky given his ratios. Not many dudes beat their tRA’s by a full 1.5 runs.
But, damn.
You really think he’s already proven himself to be worth all that money?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 24, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, Dice K
has been well worth the money.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Nov 24, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, thanks for that clarification.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 24, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You keep asking, dirkatron...
…and it’s beyond fucking obvious it was money well spent.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Nov 24, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know I keep asking.
And it’s not beyond fucking obvious to me.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 24, 2008 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he's no Millwood
But he was pretty good.
"Colt mccoy sucks, mack brown needs to be fired." - Longhorn
by DaheelzCM on Nov 24, 2008 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It appears you haven’t seen Daisuke jump throw.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 24, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In 2006, he wasn't worth the money
In 2007, he was. The question then is how likely is he to be worth the money in the future.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 24, 2008 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's effectively wild...
Which is better then ineffectively accurate. The walks generally don’t kill him…I don’t have the stats right at me but I’d guess he gets quite a few swings and misses and also a very low line-drive rate. You’ll rarely see a guy with movement like him on all pitches that’s not a knuckleballer.
I actually see some comparisons with him and Padilla. Both can be wild but effective and both are susceptible to blow up innings. I just think Boston managed him better this year.
by slimshadty12 on Nov 24, 2008 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Some good reading from Dave Cameron on Dike-K.
Choice quotage:
He’s 18-2 with a 2.80 ERA. With the worst walk rate in baseball of any pitcher in baseball who was able to keep his job. His FIP is a pretty ordinary 4.01, which is about the best you could possibly hope for given the worst walk rate in the league. He misses enough bats to offset some of the control problems (8.21 K/9) and has also had great success keeping the ball in the park (0.63 HR/9), though his 5.9% HR/FB rate suggests that’s not all skill. He’s also benefited greatly from a .271 BABIP, which has directly led to him stranding more baserunners than anyone in the AL.
SNIP, SNIP
Really, for a pitcher to experience this much surface-level success while pitching as badly as Matsuzaka has is nearly unprecedented. There’s little doubt that his 2008 season will go down as one of the most unique in history, and it’s unlikely to be repeated any time soon.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 24, 2008 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The future of Dice K
will be here soon enough to evaluate but thru two years, Dice K has been well worth the money invested in him.
What price do you assign a World Series title? Dice K played a major role in positioning the Red Sox to win that title.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Nov 24, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, okay. You're going with the "No move can be considered a bad move if it after you make it you win a title".
I can understand that. They won a WS with him, so how can you possibly gripe about the contract.
I was just talking about his individual performance so far and what we can expect out of him the future.
I don’t know that he’s produced like a 20mm per year pitcher and I’m wary of him going forward.
I’d feel very uneasy looking at him knowing you’ve basically got 60mm invested in him over the next three years.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 24, 2008 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But, like with Millwood
the BABIP picture is mirky and only part of the story. I think Matsuzaka was a tad lucky, just like Millwood was a tad unlucky. I also think there is something in his stuff and/or delivery that makes good contact more difficult than with Milly.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 24, 2008 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and to add
suffice it so say, I think that both pictures are worth the contracts they have.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 24, 2008 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I looked at DiceK's hr/fb rate
And it is so low due to the extraordinary amount of infield flies.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 24, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Even for having such a good IFFB% (which I agree does help quite a bit) he still had a freakishly low hr/fb rate.
10 qualified pitchers had an IFFB rate above 13% and all of them had higher hr/fb rates.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 24, 2008 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you are right
even if you subtract out all his IFFBs (27), you are still looking at a hr/fb% of 7.1%, which is probably not sustainable.
One of these days, I’m going to post a thought provoking fanpost about how some of these statistical oddities that are classified as luck, rather than skill. In this case, I’m not sure if DiceK has a unique skill that keeps his hr/fb extraordinarily low, or if he was just fortunate in 2008. I think a good case could be made for the former.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 24, 2008 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe so.
But his HR rate was significantly higher in ’07.
So if it is a skill he sucked at using it his only other season in the bigs.
I dunno. Based on what I’ve read on the subject it is very hard for me to believe a guy can control his fb/hr rate to any significant degree. Maybe, though.
Some food for thought:
Linky.
Linky.
Linky.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 24, 2008 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the problem with a lot of pitching metrics
including your favorites. They are solid predictors of future performance, but:
1. They don’t necessarily always draw the correct conclusions about the past
The fact is that Matsuzaka pitched out of an amazing amount of jams, just as he says. That may bode poorly for him, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that he was lucky. Luck has become the popular word for “variances that we don’t really care to address”. In a broad sense it tends to be margin for error, but not in every case. If you watched a lot of his starts this season, he was just remarkable in how he walked himself into jams but made pitches to get out of them. And a whole lot of those were strikeouts, not balls right at guys.
2. They rely on the human to then observe where someone might be an outlier
Dice K is an odd creature for a pitcher. He’s uniquely talented yet enigmatic. He can’t have the exact same model applied to him as the average pitcher.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 3:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My sentiments exactly
I think the newer pitching metrics are useful, but frequently misinterpreted.
Also, I think there is an increasing tendency to discount what actually happened, since these new metrics tease some of us into thinking that the component skills “should” translate into the same outcome for each individual of the population.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 24, 2008 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay.
We’ll have to agree to disagree.
I think Dice-K has been a good but not great pitcher who’s pitched above his head.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 24, 2008 8:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You could be right...
My question is why can’t his .271 BABIP be attributed to weak contact? Did he have a good line drive percentage? I’m guessing he had a nice defense behind him but still…
by slimshadty12 on Nov 24, 2008 9:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
His line drive percentage was round 18%, which is about average.
Going strictly off the LD%/BABIP rule, his BABIP should’ve been somewhere around .300.
However, I’m not a big believer in the strict correlation between BABIP and LD% so I believe that, yes, it’s possible he still gets a lot of weak contact.
I’ve just never seen any proof of it.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 24, 2008 9:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess like Zywica said...
I remember two times of randomly watching a few games of his where he walked the bases loaded in the first inning and got out of it. And like Z said it wasn’t a fluke that he got out of it. Dice-K had no clue where the ball was going and neither did the hitter so it’s not like the hitter slammed the ball into a line drive double play or anything.
by slimshadty12 on Nov 25, 2008 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If he's so good at getting outs with the bases loaded
then why doesn’t that translate to other situations?
Clutch pitching makes me go a big rubbery one, just like the idea of clutch hitting.
IMO, over time most hitters hit in clutch situations just like they hit in non-clutch situations, and over time most pitchers pitch in clutch situations pitch in clutch situations like they pitch in non-clutch situations.
Now, maybe Dice-K is an exception to that rule. Maybe there’s something in his uber-uniqueness that makes him particularly tough in big situations, but I’m in need of some serious convincing.
Anecdotal evidence fro them two times you caught one of his starts aside.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 26, 2008 8:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Like most pitchers
we’ll know at the end of the contract.
Nolan Ryan is the Greatest Pitcher ever, because Google says so.
"BTW I’m officially welching ab03. Yeah I planned too all along, but I figured I’d try to get off the hook with double or nothing first."- Sharky
by DJCahill on Nov 24, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Like most anything
Anyone can fall off a cliff. When I say that he’s worth it, I mean that his performance thus far has confirmed that Boston was getting what they thought they were getting. Of course things could change when the deal is not over.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The genius was
in how they handled the situation, their high bid and low contract offer. But if they didn’t evaluate him correctly it would have been a bad gamble.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a minor consideration
that I can’t evaluate but aren’t the Red Sox making all kinds of marketing inroads and generating revenue from Japan through everything that has happened to Dice K?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Nov 24, 2008 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That may play a part
in Tazawa’s decision and that of other Japanese pitchers. He seems to think well of the Boston organization from his comments.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 24, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For what it's worth
Going back and reading some of these articles, almost all of the negative press comes from that Jim Allen. He doesn’t like him, obviously, but I don’t see why that is gospel. And Dice-K is like 5-11.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Salty + Tazawa for Bucholz!
Just kidding.
Tazawa is pretty interesting. I can think of much larger wastes of money than overpaying in money to add a SP prospect.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Nov 24, 2008 10:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ya
Interesting how the Rangers are willing to shell out some dough to go hard after a SP prospect like this rather than use it on the MLB free agent market. Shows you their priorities are still on adding talent to the organization, and overall that’s a good thing I think.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Nov 24, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't like reading this:
Jim Allen recently wrote a scouting report on Tazawa for ESPN.com:
He has good command of his fastball and slurve, but he lacks velocity, stamina and the ability to keep the ball down. At 22, Tazawa is unlikely to throw much harder than he does now; his fastball barely tops 90 mph when he is rested, and he struggled to hit 88 mph at the end of last season.
by coolaid on Nov 24, 2008 10:58 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
He would fit right in with bmac and hurley
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Nov 24, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Japanese pitchers
Unless you are talking about a “once in a generation” type talent over in Japan, I don’t see those starters having any success over here. I’d just as soon avoid wasting money on bidding wars in the far east and investing those same dollars in Latin America. But that is just me.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 24, 2008 11:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm right there with ya...
i like baseball too
by bspate on Nov 24, 2008 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Its usually a miss (for example, Mac Suzuki, Tomo Okha, Kaz Sasaki, Shigetoshi Hasegawa, and our favorite, Hideki Irabu) with japanese pitchers than a hit (Matsuzaka, Hideo Nomo)
It seems a majority of them could pitch a season or two as a starter, but in the end, their arm will lead them either to the bullpen or the IR.
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Nov 24, 2008 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
thats some high standards there
that ohka is a miss.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Nov 24, 2008 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not just Ohka
Sasaki was pretty darn good in his ML stint, and so was Hasagawa. Sheesh if Tazawa has a 4 or 5 year career with an ERA+ in the 120 range that’s pretty much awesome.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 24, 2008 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yah I find the idea that Sasak was a miss pretty laughable.
He was really good for a while there.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 24, 2008 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What I mean
Is that when a japanese prospect is coming over from Japan to the US, this pitcher is suppose to change the way the game’s played. Yes, some of these pitchers have been good in the mlb, but the majority of the time they usually end up as back of the rotation starters or bullpen guys
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Nov 24, 2008 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we could use some of those.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Nov 24, 2008 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand your first comment
The fact that no Japanese pitcher has changed the way that baseball is played in the US means that they are a big collective bust?
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, not a bust
Its just they haven’t performed as well as many thought they were going to. When Nomo came to the Dodgers and did what he did, it seemed as though everyone and their mothers tried to make their way over to the Asian market and sign those players up, but none of them preformed the way they were expected to.
If these guys come here and become RPs, than many will consider it to be a failure of a signing. Remember, these players are going against other japanese players, which one could make the case are not as strong as MLB players, so they might pitch better there than here. I still remember years back when Matsuzaka first started pitching, there were concerns that he wouldn’t hold up or hitters were going to figure out his gyro pitch. I’m still very on the fense with him (hate that Walk Rate he has), so there are concerns about that market over there.
And besides, what if teams decided to do what was done with Matsuzaka. Making teams bid to actually have the right to talk to the player and try to sign with them? That could really end up hurting teams. And the player, even if they were good over in japan, a culture change could affect them and hurt them in this league.
All in all, i’m just not sold on the japanese market as others
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Nov 24, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're constructing a dummy argument
because your response for those of us who are saying that it’s possible that this guy is worth this money is that Japanese guys typically or generally or always, whatever it is, aren’t worth the money. Well, many of them have been. That someone out there overrated them or that some aspect of the media went a little nuts over them because they were Japanese has nothing to do with either our point or your counter.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, true i see your point
Its just, IMO, to move from one major market for baseball (japans baseball league) to another (MLB).
Look, I want the best for this guy, and if we are going to sign him, I hope he comes in and pitches good for us. The only thing i’m worried about is the culture change. Hes going to come into a clubhouse dominated by either American or Latin American players, and hes not going to have a player in there that can really relate to him. I would use Wang from NY as an example (except hes pitched pretty good over the pass couple of years) but there are reports, including by SI, that shows that hes very uncomfortable here and really doesn’t have that much friends on the team. That could easily affect any japanese player coming over.
And thats the thing. Some players from japan come over and play pretty good. Others, not so much. For every Nomo you find, you could then find yourself with a Irabu. Its very tough to evaulate those players
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Nov 24, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How is that
Any different than an American player?
by brettgardner on Nov 24, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I mean from a culture change
Its got to be much harder coming from Japan to the United States than from, say, Double or Triple A to the majors. At least from those kids in the minors they might have played with some others on the major league level somewhere in the minors
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Nov 24, 2008 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You think
some kid from the slums of D.R. doesn’t have a hard time assimilating to american culture? I think you could make the argument that japanese culture is more similar to American than some of the Latin American countries.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 24, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But aren't asian players a lot more rare than Domincans??
I agree that the “culture shock” for a LA kid should be greater than that of a Japanese FA, I think that the LA kid is FAR more likely to have teammates from similar backgrounds.
by bking on Nov 24, 2008 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
fair point
but I don’t think Tazawa will fail because of a lack of comfort. If he fails it will be because he just isn’t good enough.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 24, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 24, 2008 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, but my point
is that they are not talking about throwing Matsuzaka money, or even Nomo money at this guy. It’s a few million, and even if he just turns out to be a solid reliever for a few years, that’s a great return on that kind of investment.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 24, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
have we heard the type of money we are throwing at him yet? If its a couple of million, I’m fine with it, but until we hear what type of money we are throwing at him, then we need to hold off with that.
I would like to have him come here and become a solid reliever for us, but this guy has never pitched in Texas nor pitched in the majors. Right now we just have to take a wait and see approach with him
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Nov 24, 2008 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s over six million, but that also means you control him for six years, the first 3-4 of which will be very cheap.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i thought i read
that the Red Sox offered a three year deal at a million per year. all we know is that our offer excedes this, correct?
by clark on Nov 24, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah local papers are saying ours exceeded it
I may have heard incorrect information. The six million dollar amount was on the ESPN scroll last night and didn’t provide the number of years.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 24, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And also
no sleep last night…take anything i say right now with a grain of salt
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Nov 24, 2008 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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