Friday poll
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 28, 2008 10:30 AM CST
115 comments
I got into a discussion about what sort of "sweetener" the Rangers would have to include with Saltalmacchia to get the BoSox to part with Clay Buchholz, and I suggested it would have to be someone like Michael Main...
Which made me think...what do you guys think?
Salty and Main for Buchholz...who says yes, who says no? (And to clarify, I'm asking what you think the respective teams would do, not what they should do).
Cast your vote...
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How about
Salty and Robbie Ross for Buchholz or Salty and C wun?
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Nov 28, 2008 10:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
dont think u can trade a player until a year from the draft
by CRUSHDAVIS on Nov 28, 2008 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know
He would be PTBNL
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Nov 28, 2008 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Then you'd still have to wait a while.
Cause it’s a year after he’s signed, not a year after he’s drafted, and you can only wait to choose a PTBNL for 6 months.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 28, 2008 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That sounds way better than Salty and Main....
for Bucholz. I don’t give up Salty and Main in a deal together unless I’m getting Lester back from the BoSox. Main could be something special and Bucholz, even though he didthrow a no-hitter his rookie year, looked horrendous last year.
by TxStCa on Nov 28, 2008 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure
that Lester was regarded not as highly as Buchholz before last year. And while there is very little chance that the BoSox part with Buchholz, there is absolutely no way they part with Lester.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Nov 28, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I voted neither team would do it
I don’t see Boston as a team that would be interested in dealing ready-now players for anything less than ready-now players. I think they have the system in place that they can acquire just about all the minor league depth that they need without having to give up valued assets to do that.
I don’t think Texas would pull the trigger because Main is a first round draft pick, and Hicks told us that we will never trade a first rounder, and I think he just might have been serious.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 28, 2008 10:40 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry
but this trade is HORRIBLE!!!
by Coolbean04 on Nov 28, 2008 10:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I voted Texas would/Boston wouldn't.
Apparently I’m the only one who thinks that way.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 28, 2008 10:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
no I agreed
my thoughts have been include anybody except Feliz and Holland for him. And I felt Boston would feel the same way
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Nov 28, 2008 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hmm, i woudnl't do that for Texas
especially because i think Main will have a better major league career than Buch. Also, he was on par with Buch’s A numbers at 19. I think trading our number one prospect (according to many) and Salty for Buch (who knows if he’s all straightened out now) is kinda ridiculous.
But, oh well…i am more inclined to believe in our prospects than others at this time.
45-35
Jindal '12
by Longhorn on Nov 28, 2008 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like the deal
We trade Salty and Main for Buchholz.
I was leaning toward Texas would and Boston woudn’t. But, after some serious thinking. I went with both teams would do it. I think it’s a fair and reasonable deal for for team. I can’t think of a reason that Boston would not be at least interested in this deal. Looks good for both teams, IMO.
A Texas Designer's Map of the World
by hurlerhurley on Nov 28, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I think people here way overvalue Main (and I really like Main).
by Schrute Farms on Nov 28, 2008 8:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This story will resolve one of two ways.
1. The Rangers add something to the deal to get a Buchholz-echelon talent.
2. The Rangers hold onto Tea and Salty, devise a plan to start them equally, deal Laird to free up all the ABs, and revisit this next season when they know more.
For that matter, #2 is starting to make more sense. Holding both Cs so the team can learn their true ML abilities is a sacrifice – eg, a roster crunch – that is smaller than the sacrifice of a trade sweetener.
And the upside is they both turn out to be frontline catchers. A poster on SOSH made the point that catcher defense can be taught. So…figure on teaching Saltalamacchia this year, then revisit the situation later.
I’m reluctant to admit it, but Buchholz is probably way more than Boston wants to deal, even with that big hole behind the plate, when they can just pay less for a decent starter.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 28, 2008 10:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yes to the last part.
Buchholz is probably way more than Boston wants to deal, even with that big hole behind the plate, when they can just pay less for a decent starter.
Yes. Yes. One thousand times, YES.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 28, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and I am completely fine with this angle
as long as we get something useful for Laird. I don’t think there’s anything good that can come from going into camp next year with all 4 of those guys…or trading Laird now for a six pack of Coors.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Nov 28, 2008 11:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It depends how sold
the scouts are on Buch. If all reports are positive and they like what they see then I’d do probably do it.
What would LSB rather do, Salt/Main for Buch or Salt/Perez?
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. 45 given up in the 1st quarter. Wow. But still we're better than Washington! Oh and, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-10 baby!
by sprite on Nov 28, 2008 10:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
That wasn't the question.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Nov 28, 2008 11:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. 45 given up in the 1st quarter. Wow. But still we're better than Washington! Oh and, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-10 baby!
by sprite on Nov 28, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, I mean
do you like being chief of police?
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Nov 28, 2008 4:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sprite, stay focused
That wasn’t the question. haha
A Texas Designer's Map of the World
by hurlerhurley on Nov 28, 2008 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Boston would and Texas wouldn't
Boston I think is holding off on trading Buchholz but it isn’t as far away as some people think. Adding a top talent like Main acts as more than enough for Boston to feel comfortable in trading Buchholz away. I think that is too much to give up though from Texas’ perspective. This team just shouldn’t be trading away their top talents like Main. Trade away solid pitching prospects if you have to, but not the ones that could turn out to be top of the rotation starters.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 28, 2008 11:08 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
what if it was
Salty, Main and a lower prospect for Greinke? my point is, Buchholz has pitched in the majors but not with consistency. He’s a HUGE talent, but with our minor league talent, if we are able to take a “spare part” with huge value like Salty and package him with one of several of our outstanding talents on the mound and get a young, proven, # 1/# 2 type pitcher, why not?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Nov 28, 2008 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't do that for Greinke either
I don’t think the answer to the Rangers pitching problem is to trade away talent for pitchers that won’t be here for more than a couple of years. If you can turn Teagarden or Salty into a Buchholz talent, then you do it. Don’t try to sweeten the deal with guys like Main.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 28, 2008 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the Greinke gang lovers
are out in full force now.
I just knew we’d see the Greinke gang back with some trade ideas.
A Texas Designer's Map of the World
by hurlerhurley on Nov 28, 2008 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm actually not THAT big on trading for Greinke
but prior discussions had us sending Salty, Andrus, one of our young starting prospects and maybe even a Cruz and/or Harrison to sweeten the deal. So my point was to go after a proven MLB starter, instead of throwing big pieces at somebody that hasn’t had a full year of success yet. And to me, Salty is nothing more than a trade piece…I am not looking at him as a viable long term answer for us behind the plate. So I would like to take advantage of the teams out there that are looking at him like that right now. So the question is, what can we get back for him, what is the biggest return we could get? And what do we have to add to get a proven talent in return? If the answer is Main, you’ve got to make sure you really maximize that return
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Nov 29, 2008 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have no problem
adding a sweetener with Salty for Clay but NOT a pitcher that’s highly regarded like Main, Perez, and etc.
I really think Main can be just as good as Clay or better.
I really think Salty should be 75% of the deal for Clay. What would the other 25% be?
The problem is that the Red Sox are stacked in pretty much every position so it’s hard for them to fill another need from another one of our players.
by Coolbean04 on Nov 28, 2008 11:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Trade
Two top prospects for one. Almost as realistic and viable proposal as the Tim Wakefield for Josh Hamilton idea mocked in this column last week, except I forgot, Jon Daniels is the GM.
by doolindalton on Nov 28, 2008 11:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Oh look, a JD is an idiot joke
yawn
"Relying on the government to protect your privacy is like asking a peeping tom to install your window blinds."
by Maximilian on Nov 28, 2008 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ha... peeping tom
to install your window blinds.
A Texas Designer's Map of the World
by hurlerhurley on Nov 28, 2008 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, look
The yawn, I am so smart that I’ll act like a condescending prick joke.
by doolindalton on Nov 28, 2008 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think either team makes this deal.
Texas seems high enough on Main that they would consider that deal overpaying on their part. I’m not sure Boston is high enough on Main to think that he’s enough to tip the trade in their favor.
I would do that in a second though.
by LiamP on Nov 28, 2008 11:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
FLA trade
Looking at the depth chart, they have 1. Nolasco 2. Johnson 3. Voldstad 4. Sanchez 5. A. Miller.
The top two salaries on the team are A. Miller at 2.2M and Helms at 2.4M. Everyone else is under 1M.
How about we trade Salty for A. Miller, Helms, and M. Dominguez.
Fla finally gets a catcher that they want. They free up 4.6M which we know they want to shed high salaries and Helms blows.
We get a solid prospect that’s a lefty. We’d be taking on Helms who stinks but helps the deal happen because florida lowers team salary. We get M. Dominguez who’s a solid 3B prospect (which we don’t have). He’s in LoA so it makes it a lot easier to get him than say if he was producing in AA or AAA.
What do you guys think? Is it doable?
by Coolbean04 on Nov 28, 2008 11:33 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Any chance we could get Sanchez from Fla?
In reference to how good the Steelers have been in their history: "No one is even close to them."- Steal Home
by hinduplaya on Nov 28, 2008 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
but Miller makes a lot more money (he’s also 1 year younger and also a lefty) so I think FLA would rather trade Miller over Sanchez.
by Coolbean04 on Nov 28, 2008 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How about we trade Salty for A. Miller, Helms, and M. Dominguez.
If Z were here he’d go crazy right about now.
If JD pulled that off I would quite literally go down to Arlington and blow him.
by LiamP on Nov 28, 2008 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can see it happening
Helms brings nothing to the table except a salary dump.
So it’s really Miller, Dominguez, salary relief for Salty.
Dominguez is in LoA and is 19, he still has awhile to go before reaching the majors. So why wouldn’t FLA trade the #5 starter (according to ESPN depth chart) and there top 2 salaries on the team for a starting MLB catcher?
by Coolbean04 on Nov 28, 2008 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nah.
Dominguez is a five star 3B prospect and is just slightly behind Maybin in terms of being their best prospect (depending on how much you like Stanton).
Miller is their #5 starter in the same way that Buchholz would be Boston’s #5 starter if he were in their rotation right now. Using ESPN’s depth chart as any basis for making a trade is…dubious.
There’s no question Florida likes to salary dump, but there’s no point in dumping a 23 year old lefty with fantastic stuff who was the #6 pick in the draft. It’s not like at the beginning of every year they look at their salary chart and go, “oh, just lop off the top few then”.
by LiamP on Nov 28, 2008 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also.
According to Cot’s, Wes Helms is scheduled to make 950k in ‘09 and ’10. He’s pretty irrelevant in this deal but in terms of a salary dump, that’s not much.
by LiamP on Nov 28, 2008 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also also.
Miller is only making 1.3mm in ’09.
by LiamP on Nov 28, 2008 11:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a big difference
since I see Helms making 2.4M.
by Coolbean04 on Nov 28, 2008 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hell no it's not reasonable
Salty + for Miller would be quite a coup, no way is Florida throwing in their #1 prospect.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 28, 2008 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pipe dream.
Bring up Matt West '09
by Chase Irwin on Nov 28, 2008 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hindman seems to think that the catcher Florida wants is Max
I have no idea what they might be willing to offer for him, but if it ain’t something very, very good I’d pass.
Maybe we could just give them Gerald Laird and pay his salary.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 28, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 28, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dominguez
I’m not so sure I wouldn’t do Salty for Dominguez alone.
by groundingout on Nov 28, 2008 4:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This proposal
In reality I think the Red Sox may just want to save Buchholz, if they’re going to trade him at all, for a deal where they get an established star, but…
This is a realistic deal. Main is a serious prospect with a lot of upside. It gives a Rangers fan serious pause, like a realistic trade should.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 28, 2008 11:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
What about my FLA proposal
is it close?
by Coolbean04 on Nov 28, 2008 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
right
I just don’t see the Red Sox being that interested in getting back prospects, even very solid ones like Main. They don’t have any trouble filling up their farm system w/ intnat’l free agents, and dealing away ready-now players for a return that has a significant chunk of its’ value in A-ball just doesn’t seem like anything the Sox would be all that interested in, even if the value is pretty good.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 28, 2008 11:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree.
Buch has lost some of his shine, just like Salty, but their still both upper-tier talents with huge potential. I think you could realistically say they are both top-5 prospects in their respective systems. Main, if he’s not quite top-5, is pretty darn close. Trading two high-level prospects for one, even if that one has slightly higher potential, is pretty dumb, in my opinion. If that’s what the Sox would expect, then JD needs to tell them to settle for whatever spare catcher they can get for their scrub prospects or on the FA market.
by Athos on Nov 28, 2008 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s how I voted.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 28, 2008 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I voted neither team would do it.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 28, 2008 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which, ironically, is the complete opposite of how he voted.
by LiamP on Nov 28, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This is a realistic deal.
That’s how I voted.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 28, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
To me
Both and neither are similar votes here. I could have gone with both. The two questions to ask are whether the value of the players on each side were equivalent and whether the deal fits the needs of each organization. The answer to the first is yes, imo, unlike deals with Salty and some marginal asset for Buchholz, which means that you lean toward both teams being willing to do it or both teams not. My feeling is that it just isn’t the type of deal in which Boston wants to include Buchholz (assuming that there is a deal that they would), and at the same time, it’s a hefty price for Texas, considering that there is at least some question about whether Buchholz has the makeup to be an elite pitcher (while there doesn’t seem to be one on Main, just whether he can develop the same caliber of nasty stuff that Buchholz has).
by Brett Perryman on Nov 28, 2008 5:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
Ad idem… We’re are of the same mind. The Red Sox could seriously bite on this one.
A Texas Designer's Map of the World
by hurlerhurley on Nov 28, 2008 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the idea was...
to trade position players for pitching and not to unload pitchers?
by Redcaps on Nov 28, 2008 12:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Which position player(s) would you add then?
I have a hard time seeing Andrus included in this (proposed) deal and Smoak isn’t elligible (and wouldn’t be included anyway). After that everybody’s a catcher or a toolsy OF (like Beltre) and the Sox have plenty of those.
"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.
by OCD SS on Nov 28, 2008 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's rare to be able to
deal exclusively position players and get back exclusively pitchers, especially really good ones. Do do that you’re either going to have to way overpay or know something that the other team doesn’t about their own guy.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 28, 2008 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
I think you can find plenty of deals of position players for pitchers and vice vesra. What’s a lot more rare is a trade of players at an even level (as opposed to something like 3 younger players for an established player (or somebody about to go to FA)…
But that’s why the Sox and Rangers match up so well; the Sox have a pitching surplus near the majors and the Rangers have the same for catchers. I think the hang up right now is just negotiations. But if the Rangers are going to attempt to add a sweetener to get Buchholz, the Rangers really don’t have the position players to do it if they’re not going to include Andrus or Smoak (which, for the record, I don’t think they should – the gap between Andrus/ Smoak and the next level of position player is probably pretty wide).
"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.
by OCD SS on Nov 28, 2008 5:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Feels a little Danks-BMac-ish to me. Pasadena.
Plus, first-rounder-HIcks-no-trade meme.
by Keynes on Nov 28, 2008 12:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about that
We had a pretty good idea what Danks was going to become, still a long ways to go with Main. Like Longhorn said he could become Buch. Who knows.
"Obama is a Christian - He's always been a Christian...But.........what if he is[a Muslim]? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer is no, that's not America." Colin Powell on Obama/Muslim assertions.
by AirJordan on Nov 28, 2008 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Could be
But just for what it’s worth, the people who are saying Buchholz is really good aren’t the same people who were saying that McCarthy was really good.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 28, 2008 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sweeteners
I think any deal with Boston would need to include an extra player from both sides. Salty and any A ball pitcher not named Main for Bucholz and Riddick?
10) Josh Reddick, OF, Grade B-
.343/.375/.593 for Lancaster, but just .219/.282/.422 in 18 games of Double-A so far. Needs to make some adjustments.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Nov 28, 2008 12:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Riddick?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 28, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
meet me at the mawwl... it's goin dowwn...
by oc on Nov 28, 2008 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I stay committed while you motherfuckers baby-sitted
I smash you critics like a overhand right from riddick
Bring up Matt West '09
by Chase Irwin on Nov 28, 2008 9:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Greatest actor of our generation.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 28, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The idea of “sweetner” is usually to add players in the lower minors; I don’t see the Red Sox adding the more advanced prospect in this case.
The thing is that A ball pitchers are so volatile as a commodity that no GM looks only at their upside when assessing value. They’re all so far from the minors that the amount of risk that they’ll turn into nothing has to be considered. From what I’ve read, Main already has some injury concerns; once you remove him, the offer becomes pretty meaningless; what you’ve suggested is worse from the Sox POV than just Buchholz for Salty.
"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.
by OCD SS on Nov 28, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
from the Sox POV
what is the best that you could see them giving for Salty? Consider that Texas has shown no interest in Bowden.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 28, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also...
I don’t really get the problem with Bowden. He’s not going to be a #1, but then again neither is Masterson (and let’s face it, potential #1s just don’t get traded in this day and age, if JD insists on Buchholz, there won’t be a deal).
I think that both Masterson and Bowden have the potential to be #2 starters, but I think Bowden actually has a better chance to meet that ceiling than Masterson (and he’s pretty sure to at least be a #3 – there’s some value in certainty). I think the reason the Sox are less inclined to deal Masterson is because of his versatility out of the pen.
His stuff plays up in the pen, but Bowden’s arsenal seems to be better suited to starting. While his one start in Fenway would certainly give the Ranger’s pause (lots of long fly ball outs that might not play well in Arlington), he also did a great job in Lancaster, which normally destroys pitchers, and he’s still very young. Masterson’s GB tendancies would be good for Arlington, but since his stint in Lancaster I think Bowden has a better chance of adjusting to Arlington.
"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.
by OCD SS on Nov 28, 2008 5:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would offer Masterson. Frankly I’m surprised that the Sox FO seems as resistant to dealing him as they have. (Although on the other side, JD’s idea of 2 of Masterson/ Bowden/ Hagadone is also way too much; I think both teams are posturing a bit right now.) From there I could see both teams filling in with other minor pieces.
"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.
by OCD SS on Nov 28, 2008 1:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Salty and Main for Buchholz...would the teams make this trade?
I would not do that trade… I would trade Salty,Omar Poveda, and Marlin Byrd for Clay Buchholz. You would have a rotation of Harrison, Buchholz, McCarthy, Padilla and Millwood.
by nathan_sassaman on Nov 28, 2008 2:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
If the Rangers acquire
a SP that they plug into their rotation, I hope they trade either Millwood or Padilla. Hurley needs to be in the ML rotation.
by RangerMad on Nov 28, 2008 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Omar Poveda and Marlin Byrd
doesn’t have the value that Main does. They’d at least take a nibble with the Salty and Main deal. Boston would just blow off that deal of Salty, Poveda, and Byrd.
I really like the Salty and Main (maybe even toss in a player to be named later) for Buchholz
A Texas Designer's Map of the World
by hurlerhurley on Nov 28, 2008 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's just absolute ridiculous
You would trade a top 3 prospect in our system and a catcher who has amazing potential for a pitcher who is essentially what Main could be in a year? This is a Danks trade all over again.
by hiafex on Nov 28, 2008 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not crazy at all
sure BTiA had Main as their no. 1 in the Top 25 Prospect Rankings: Fall ’08 Edition
But Main is not my No.1.They ranked Main over Holland, Feliz, Smoak, and Andrus. That would put Main below the Top 3 you seem to think he is. I rank Main in the top 10 but he’s not in the Rangers top 5 prospects, IMO
This is NOT a Danks trade over again. Give me a break. We’re are talking about Buchholz.. not McCarthy. Salty and Main for Buchholz is a good deal.
A Texas Designer's Map of the World
by hurlerhurley on Nov 28, 2008 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever you say
I value Main a lot higher than you do obviously. I voted for him as the #1 overall prospect in our organization which is why I don’t feel that it’s worth it. I don’t see that huge of a difference between Main and Buccholz, especially not a large enough difference that is worth giving up Salty over.
by hiafex on Nov 28, 2008 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How in the hell
can anyone even compare McCarthy to Buchholz. That’s just absolute ridiculous to even put McCarthy on the same level or even trade value as to what Buchholz is.
My goodness.. look at what Buchholz has done. Then look at what brittle broken down injury prone McCarthy has done.
A Texas Designer's Map of the World
by hurlerhurley on Nov 28, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Buccholz hasn't done that much in the majors either
6.75 ERA in 76 IP last year. Not worth Main and Salty. The end.
by hiafex on Nov 28, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and Salty has done what?
A Texas Designer's Map of the World
by hurlerhurley on Nov 28, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The same as what Buccholz has done
Not that good at the majors. But Salty is younger at a position where they have nobody to man next year. I wouldn’t do anything more than Salty + Boscan.
by hiafex on Nov 28, 2008 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boston is not going to just take
Salty straight up for Buchholz . And they damn sure wouldn’t just give us Buchholz for Main straight up either.
A Texas Designer's Map of the World
by hurlerhurley on Nov 28, 2008 3:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's their problem then
Hopefully that 76 IP from this past year was a fluke because it doesn’t really seem like that small of a sample size to me.
by hiafex on Nov 28, 2008 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Salty and Boscan.
Sorry I missed that. I like that idea. But no way they’d even think about that. You keep under estimating the value of Buchholz because of last year
A Texas Designer's Map of the World
by hurlerhurley on Nov 28, 2008 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
btw.. a catcher has to go
and it won’t be Laird or TT that is going to be traded
So all you Max and Salty lovers can fight.
Cause Gerald Laird and Taylor Teagarden will be Texas Rangers in 2009
A Texas Designer's Map of the World
by hurlerhurley on Nov 28, 2008 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know a catcher has to go
But Main does not.
From Mike Hindman’s prospect previews:
“At this point, it seems that there is a solid chance that he’ll compete for a spot in the Rangers rotation at some point in 2010.”
Why would you use Main to sweeten the pot for Buccholz if he could be ready as soon as 2010? We’re not going to be really competing till 2010 anyways.
by hiafex on Nov 28, 2008 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
2010???
Yes Main is trade bait and we can really use him as a some trade yummy. His trade value is probably as high as it will get right now. We’ve got back up top prospects pitchers. So why not deal Main.
However, I’m not really confident. I’ll take my chances with Buchholz over Main.
So Hindman thinks… and I do respect what he thinks but I don’t think it boils down what he thinks about Main . You know we have much better pitchers that are just as good as Main.
A Texas Designer's Map of the World
by hurlerhurley on Nov 28, 2008 4:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyway.. My vote went to
Both teams would do it — this trade would happen
A Texas Designer's Map of the World
by hurlerhurley on Nov 28, 2008 4:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Quantity <<< Quality
especially in terms of trade value
by Brett Perryman on Nov 28, 2008 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sweeten the deal with McCarthy.
meet me at the mawwl... it's goin dowwn...
by oc on Nov 28, 2008 2:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I would do it
But voted that neither team would do that exact deal. I does smack of Danks-McCarthy, but from the opposite perspective. The thing is, if Main pans out, Boston receives two roster regulars in return for one very promising starting pitcher. I don’t have enough foresight to judge how good Main will be.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Nov 28, 2008 2:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Main
will have a better career than Buchholz. Just because JD won last summer doesn’t mean he needs to return the favor.
by clark on Nov 28, 2008 2:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Just fwiw
I don’t know that Main won’t have a better career than Buchholz. That’s why I’d struggle with whether I’d do that deal. But the question isn’t who will wind up with better players (or specific to this comment, players who under or overperform their current reputations), it’s which side would do the deal based on current value. And the fact that Main has played in Low A for 50 or so innings figures in big time, when you’re talking about several players with big upsides. The fact that Buchholz has shown all of these plus pitches in major league games also means a lot, when Main’s stuff was solid in Low A, but a lot o the excitement over his stuff involves sessions in FIL.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 28, 2008 5:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Call me when...
…Main strikes out over 12 per 9 innings and walks 2.28 per 9 in Double A with a whip of .89 and an era of 1.76, because that’s what Buchholz did the first half of ‘07 before being promoted. Don’t get me wrong, I really like Main, but lets face it, he’s got a loooong way just to get where Buchholz is now.
by Schrute Farms on Nov 28, 2008 9:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Would Texas have any interest in
a subsidized Mike Lowell?
With most of the rumors having the Sox going hard after Teixeira, they’ll probably try to move Lowell, and will probably be willing to pay some of his contract as well.
"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.
by OCD SS on Nov 28, 2008 5:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the Rangers...
would want anything to do with even part of that contract.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 28, 2008 5:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Littleton
Just went to Boston per a note from Jamey. For a PTBNL and/or cash. Evidently the line is still open.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Nov 28, 2008 5:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I haven't read through this thread yet, so somebosy probably already said it
But didn’t JD (or maybe it was Adair) say Main was untouchable in some interview awhile back? I seem to remember that statement pretty clearly, I just can’t remember when it was said or who said it. But that’s why this deal wouldn’t go down, because I’m pretty sure Boston would do that.
I’d try something like Salty + one of Perez/Boscan/NeRam + Joe Vallejo (BOS still might want a solid defensive SS option) and see where it got us.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Nov 28, 2008 9:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hicks is quoted recently
as saying that we won’t be flipping 1st rd. P’s anymore.
Bring up Matt West '09
by Chase Irwin on Nov 28, 2008 10:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yah, but that's obviously just posturing.
If Florida calls up offering Hanley for Diamond, Hurley and Kiker than shit gets done faster than a woozy sorority pledge with low self esteem.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 28, 2008 10:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boston doesn't need a SS prospect.
…+ Joe Vallejo (BOS still might want a solid defensive SS option) and see where it got us.
The Sox have Lowrie at SS, and are trying to find someone to take Lugo. In the Minors the Sox actually have something of back up of too many SS prospects, with A Diaz and Y Navarro moving into the high minors. Diaz, in particular, is touted as being an MLB gold glove caliber SS right now.
I’m guessing that Vallejo projects to be a utility IFer? Giving the Sox a younger version of Alex Cora isn’t really incentive. Every team has guys like that.
"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.
by OCD SS on Nov 29, 2008 10:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lowrie isn't that good
Not sure on his glove, but his bat seems pretty questionable. Vallejo would be some pretty nice insurance to have in the upper minors if Lowrie’s bat doesn’t come around. Vallejo also seems to have the tools defensively to really fit anywhere in the IF so they could move him around there.. And Vallejo could just be a good utility player.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 29, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorriy, but you're wrong.
The big question about Lowrie was always if his glove would play at SS, and he showed that he can play an at least average defensive SS in the majors this year. I assume that you’re just looking at his final OPS without actually knowing much about him.
He played through the last 4 months with a fracture in his wrist that screwed up his LH swing (which is also traditionally his better side), but maintained his approach as a RHH. He’s a switch hitter with some pop and the kind of plate discipline the Sox love. He’s pretty much won the starting job from Lugo, who will be moved (with the Sox eating all of his contract) or relegated to a utility role next year.
Vallejo is a step above minor league filler. He was rated as Texas’s 28th best prospect by BA (Sickles didn’t even profile him) and he hasn’t even played SS since his first year in the minors. If the Sox need an slick fielding IFer, they already have Diaz on the 40 man roster, who’s actually a defensive whiz at SS. These guys are mostly fungible, and every organization has one; you won’t get anything in trade for them.
"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.
by OCD SS on Nov 29, 2008 7:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have followed Lowrie
for personal reasons since I own him in a deep dynasty league. As I said, I don’t know what the reports are on his glove so I can’t say much about that, but if he is only an average defensive SS than that isn’t too good. Lowrie has pretty much been right in line in with the rest of the league as far as age is concerned throughout his minor league career, so he doesn’t have that going for him. He isn’t going to develop any more HR power at the age of 25. He doesn’t have much baserunning skills. He has been a good doubles hitter and has good on base skills but lacking the base running, the glove, and any type of HR power, he’s not an ideal SS. And Lugo shouldn’t have been more than a bench player these past 2 years. He is terrible. I could win a starting spot over him.
First, Vallejo isn’t ready this upcoming year for any Major League team and definitely not a playoff contender like the Red Sox. I’m talking about past in 2010 if Lowrie’s doesn’t play better in 2009 or struggles a lot. While I’m not too high on Lowrie, he still deserves at least a full season of playing time in the Majors to try him out. You are also underselling Vallejo a lot. Before this season, he was just a speedy player with some good defense. But he developed some nice power at the age of 21 to go along with his speed and has taken a huge step in his development. His defensive tools, as I said, let him play great anywhere if the Rangers wanted to move him. He’s got the arm for 3B and the range for either MI position (he’s already a great defensive 2B). His speed speaks for itself. Over the past 2 years, he has gone 89/7 in SBs/CS. He’s cut down on the Ks, upped the power, and has decent on base skills which I think will improve some more as he gets more experience.
Also, how the hell can you be minor league filler when you’re a 21 year old in AA? Can anyone name me some 21 year old in AA that is nothing more than minor league filler?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 29, 2008 9:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The bottom line is
that Vallejo is worthless to the Red Sox. Your initial suggestion was that he would be the third player in a deal for Buchholz, and that is probably just not the case. If the Sox are going to deal Buchholz, they’re not going to want someone who at best duplicates what they already have (Diaz); they’re going to want a player who at least has potential (a lottery ticket if you will). Teams like the Red Sox don’t really look at prospects and think “in 2 or 3 years, we might have a cheap utility player. Hooray!” They can spend the money to get an established player on the market who’s at least proven he can play in the big leagues.
As for Lowrie, the bottom line is that he’s a SS who can play at least a league average SS and probably put up an .800 OPS with a very solid OBP. MLB average defense at SS is pretty valuable; I think the Rangers’ IF defense is proof enough of how tough average can be.
"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.
by OCD SS on Nov 30, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
umm no
According to you, Diaz is just a slick fielding SS. You are mistaken if that is all you think Vallejo is. His ceiling is as a starter, not a defensive sub. And I think teams like the Red Sox are smart enough to know how valuable it is to have minor league depth especially at a position they’ve had trouble with since they got rid of Nomar and Orlando Cabrera. Simply buying a SS has worked out real well for them (see Lugo, Julio and Renteria, Edgar).
Average defense at the SS position is nice, but why settle for average when you can do better. An average player at SS both on defense and offense isn’t much to write home about and seems very replaceable.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 30, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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