LSB Community Prospect Project: #11
by thedirkatron on Nov 28, 2008 6:19 AM CST
67 comments
10 down, a lot more to go.
After 212 votes, Eric Hurley has won the right to be called the LSB Community #10 prospect!
Hurley didn't reach 50%, but he still managed a pretty dominant 14% margin of victory.
The list so far:
1. LHP, Derek Holland.
2. RHP, Neftali Feliz
3. 1b, Justin Smoak
4. RHP, Michael Main
5. SS, Elvis Andrus
6. C, Taylor Teagarden
7. C, Maximiliano Ramirez
8. LHP, Martin Perez
9. OF, Julio Borbon
10. RHP, Eric Hurley
Time to move on to the vote for #11.
The polls are open, so go ahead and vote in the poll at the bottom and feel free to make any suggestions and/or criticisms in the comments below.
And please don't hesitate to tell me you want on the list for next time.
NOTE: There has been some speculation as to what the criteria are for this vote. Should guys who have spent time in the bigs be involved in "prospect" discussions? For the sake of this exercise we're taking what the guys have done in the big leagues and using the BA prospect formula of 130 AB's or 50 ip. If a guy is under those limits, he's still a prospect and he goes on the poll. It's that simple.
Resources:
- MJH's prospect previews for the DMN Blog:
- 11 Weeks of FFG (Prelude to Prospects Lists below)
- RH Starters 1-5
- RH Starters 6-10
- RH Starters 11-15
- LH Starters 1-5
- LH Starters 6-10
- Relievers 1-5
- Catchers
Jason Parks and Joey Matschulat's Top 25 list from their excellent Rangers' site, BBTiA.com.
7 recs |
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Captain Wonderful.
Even if the velo doesn’t come back he still showed the control and the worm-killing GB skills to be a useful mid-rotation hoss.
And if the velo does come back there’s a better than decent chance he’s a top 2 or 3 guy on this list next winter.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 28, 2008 6:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I was tempted to switch midstream here and go with the Beav
Who I have been overlooking lately, with all the buzz about the young latin kids (I went Boscan last time). But then I remembered what my problem with Beav was: his FIP was a full run and a half higher than his pretty little ERA (3.87 vs. 2.37) while and his BABIP was pretty low (.256). That not-so-wonderful blemish makes me wonder a bit if he’ll maintain that GB ratio next year, especially if his velocity doesn’t return.
But, since it seems pretty likely that this poll will be a two-horse race between Beltre and Beav, I’m going to cheat a bit and not vote Beav or Boscan – I’m voting Beltre in the hopes that if Beltre wins we’ll see a Boscan/Beav faceoff at #12, something I’d really like to see right now. And I feel perfectly comfortable doing that as well, because I think that Beltre/Boscan/Beav and maybe even Neil Ramirez are a very, very tight group and the specific order they’re in is somewhat subjective. So… if anyone is still with me at this point… that’s why I’m voting Beltre here.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Nov 28, 2008 7:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And by the way...
Who the hell voted for Mitch Moreland (?!?!)
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Nov 28, 2008 7:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+2
" He throws it where he wants it, his breaking ball kept getting better and better and of course God gave him that special arm. He's great." ~ Neftali Feliz on Derek Holland.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 28, 2008 8:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Beavan for me too
I like durable, big framed pitchers that take the ball every fifth day. I don’t necessarily deduct points for injuries like what Main suffered, but on the other hand, I give out lots of bonus points to young arms that appear to have the rare gift of a durable arm and frame.
And as Parman notes below, Beavan has a lot of upside, and the success that he had as a teenager in low A is
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 28, 2008 8:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
going with Beaven as well
In reference to how good the Steelers have been in their history: "No one is even close to them."- Steal Home
by hinduplaya on Nov 28, 2008 8:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I went Cwun
If the gas shows up, it may be holland-esque. Even if he can’t recapture 5th gear, he is still getting batters out. How good is the draft of ’07 looking right now?
Your 2009 Snow Monkey Ambassador
by Parman on Nov 28, 2008 7:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
B's
Beltre here, than Beavan and Boscan for me.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 28, 2008 7:43 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
B's
for me its Boscan, Beltre then Beavan
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Nov 28, 2008 8:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
" He throws it where he wants it, his breaking ball kept getting better and better and of course God gave him that special arm. He's great." ~ Neftali Feliz on Derek Holland.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 28, 2008 8:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yah
I favor Beltre’s A performance over Blake’s, and so long’s they’re both still on the board I’m putting off the lower level Boscan.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 28, 2008 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I missed poll #10 thanks to turkey day
(Speaking of which, I hope all you LSBer’s had a good one) but I see Eric Hurley’s off the board… and we have a real battle going here this morning between Beltre and Beavan. Sweet.
I think I’ll take Beltre. A 19 y/o possible 5-tool CF? As Duffman would say: “Oh, yeah!”
by JimBonnick84 on Nov 28, 2008 9:00 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wow
And I just realized, my vote ties Beltre and Beavan for now at 17 apiece. We’ve got ourselves a horse race here folks!
by JimBonnick84 on Nov 28, 2008 9:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes indeed.
Our first really tight race of the this year’s polls.
Nice.
And if C-Wun is able to win this lil’ dogfight it’d mark the first time this year that the second place guy in the previous poll failed to win the next time out.
We’re starting to get into the wide open portion of the field.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 28, 2008 9:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the toughest one for me so far
I ended up going with Beaven. The drop in velocity sucks, but he appears to have matured a lot as a pitcher and did great in Clinton. Every other guy I was thinking of voting for just had bigger question marks around them than that drop of velocity. Beltre is talented, but can’t take a walk and I just can’t overlook that when you are talking about a .283/.308/.403 line. The tools are there and he has plenty of time to learn, but he just has to do better than that. Boscan just hasn’t pitched in full season ball yet which makes it tough to rank him higher than Beaven.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 28, 2008 9:17 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Engel
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Nov 28, 2008 9:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Engel is pulling away.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 28, 2008 10:56 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
As he should.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. 45 given up in the 1st quarter. Wow. But still we're better than Washington! Oh and, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-10 baby!
by sprite on Nov 28, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
why?
both players played in the same league at very near the same age. Beavan dominated with a 2.37 ERA and a 1.03 whip, while Beltre barely cracked a .300 OBP. So I guess I need someone to explain to me why Beltre should be ranked ahead of Beavan.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 28, 2008 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Age
Beltre is 9.5 months younger than Beavan
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 28, 2008 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's nice, but not nearly enough of an age difference to really matter
As tricer said, Beaven actually dominated the league. Beltre, even with all of his tools, was just an average player in that league. And of course, Beaven is a pitcher which is like 1000 times more awesome than an OF.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 28, 2008 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Beltre
for me i go beltre over beavan because of his massive upside. this is not to discount beavan or what he is doing I just like the upside of beltre more. Sometimes it’s hard to be objective when ranking prospects.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Nov 28, 2008 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The man who throws BBs.
C-Wun.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Nov 28, 2008 11:20 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Beavan interview coming up next week.
He told me this about his velo:
If my velocity doesn’t come back there is always a reason why, but I’m not going to worry about it too much. I trust that it will come back sometime in my career, if not this upcoming year then the next year. Right now, I’m just working on my mechanics and finesse more than anything.
by jparks77 on Nov 28, 2008 12:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hypothetically.
Had Boscan already made it in this list somewhere, would you go Beavan or someone else?
by LiamP on Nov 28, 2008 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Neil Ramirez over Beavan
Interesting. Is it safe to say that you see Ramirez learning to command his pitches over Beavan getting his strikeout pitch back?
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 28, 2008 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kinda
I undervalue Beavan, but the development of his slider concerns me a bit. His fastball command is excellent and his make-up is better than reported, but I just don’t see Beavan evolving into a legit major league rotation staple without his slider taking a few giant steps forward in the upcoming year(s). If it does, he could be really, really good.
Ramirez has better stuff. His curve is better than anything Beavan currently has and his fastball misses bats. Command is an issue, but I think Ramirez will be able to improve.
Honestly, as far as prospect rankings goes, Beavan and Ramirez are interchangeable. Beavan is currently the pitcher without his best stuff and Ramirez is the thrower with the stuff. At this point, it’s all about what you happen to value more in a prospect. I tend to value stuff.
by jparks77 on Nov 28, 2008 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good stuff JP
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Nov 28, 2008 9:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The nice thing about this system
Ten good prospects down, including five pitchers, four of which could be top 100 prospects, and we’re still voting on:
Blake Beavan
Neil Ramirez
Wilfredo Boscan
Robbie Ross
Tim Murphy
Tommy Hunter
Joe Wieland (should be on these soon)
Omar Poveda
Wilmer Font
by Brett Perryman on Nov 28, 2008 12:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Astonishing
I was thinking this morning when I voted that I couldn’t believe we were at #11 and guys like that aren’t ranked yet. Many of these have question marks, but still, there are a lot of high ceiling guys left.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 28, 2008 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Beltre again
Just gonna repost this from the previous poll
I went with the toolsy OFer here. I know all about his walks, or lack thereof, but hes just so damn talented I had to put him here. Hopefully this year the Bakersfield coaches will move him out of the leadoff spot and into a more power, run producing spot. Ultimately I think thats where hes gonna end up in the majors. While his walk rate still isn’t impressive no matter where he is in the lineup I think it was viewed even more harsher by people due to the fact he was the leadoff hitter last year. He led the MWL in hits as an 18 year old which tells you he can put the bat on the ball. Unfortunately out of the two skills, hitting and walking, hitting isn’t something you can teach. You can refine it and maybe get a little better but if you have trouble putting wood to leather you aren’t gonna make it. Plate discipline however is something you can work on. As Borbon showed in AFL this year if you go in making it a focus you can make it better. It may lead to more Ks but as the old saying goes "you can’t walk off the island" I think that holds true in Beltres case. Let his body develop and fill out and put him in the 5 hole this next year and tell him to work the counts more. His strikeout numbers may increase but so may his walks. I envision an OF in 4 years of Beltre, Borbon, Hamilton from left to right. Beastly
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 28, 2008 12:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
while you can contend that plate discipline can be learned
for whatever reason, it is pretty rare for a player to drastically improve command of the strike zone. I think one of the things that is most consistent among hitters, year to year, is the spread between BA and OBP. I’m hopeful that Beltre learns, but at this point I wouldn’t bet on it.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 28, 2008 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Beltre...
I dont necessarily believe that plate discipline can always be learned however it can be improved in some instances. I think with Beltre you just have to take the good with the bad. Realize that he will probably develop plus power, have plus speed, make plus contact but never walk much.
by Michael Cave on Nov 28, 2008 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
something like Chris "the OF" Young
I guess is what you are describing, but even Young was able to post minors OBPs of 357-377.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 28, 2008 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Moreland
will be a better MLer than Beltre. IMHO.
by RangerMad on Nov 28, 2008 2:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps
but that’s not a reason to vote for him over Beltre at this point. I like Moreland as much as anyone here, but I won’t vote for him for a few spots yet.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 28, 2008 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Huh???
If you expect Player A to become a better Major Leaguer than Player B, what other reason do you need to justify voting for Player A over Player B?
Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, huh? Didn't you just say that suicide doesn't solve anybody's problems?
by YourNameHere on Nov 28, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Because
if Beltre pans out and reaches his ceiling, he will be a MUCH better player than Moreland. What I thought RangerMad was saying is that he was voting for Moreland because he’s more likely to reach his peak than Beltre.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 28, 2008 10:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Went with Beltre here...
could have easily gone with Beavan or Boscan though.
After that I’m thinking Hunter and Vallejo will round out my top 15.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 28, 2008 3:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Now that we have our top 10...
Here is my top 10…
1. Feliz
2. Holland
3. Main
4. Perez
5. Smoak
6. Max
7. Andrus
8. Beltre
9. Borbon
10. TT
by rangerjake on Nov 28, 2008 3:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
1. Holland
2. Smoak
3. Feliz
4. Main
5. Andrus
6. Max
7. Teagarden
8. Borbon
9. Hurley
10. Vallejo
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Nov 28, 2008 4:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I voted for Vallejo
Hey where’s Johnny Whittleman :)
OK nevermind.. it’s just my man crush on Johnny
A Texas Designer's Map of the World
by hurlerhurley on Nov 28, 2008 4:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Where's Perez?
I know I’m probably higher than him than most with him being #4…but not in your top 10?? come onnnn…
by rangerjake on Nov 28, 2008 8:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I tend to put
more emphasis on players higher up in the minors than just players with projected potential. Main is an exception because I have liked him since he was drafted. (I am from Central Florida.)
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Nov 29, 2008 12:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Where in CF?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 29, 2008 1:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I grew up
in Orlando. I also lived in Longwood and Clermont.
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Nov 29, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, cool.
Rollins grad here. Lived in Winter Park/Orlando for a while. Loved that city.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 29, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good school.
Suppose to be one of the best business schools in the southeast.
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Nov 29, 2008 5:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's mine
1. Main
2. Holland
3. Smoak
4. Feliz
5. Andrus
6. Ramirez
7. Perez
8. Beltre
9. Borbon
10. Teagarden
by hiafex on Nov 28, 2008 7:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Beltre
Griffey Jr. comps = dumb
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 28, 2008 8:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
stfu
when we have 3 hall of famers in the outfield, 5 in the rotation, 3 in the bullpen, 2 playing 1st base, and 3 catchers who are all first ballot hall of fame locks then you’ll change your tune!
by bushe on Nov 28, 2008 9:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
and that doesnt even count drew meyer who is the only player to be elected to the HOF while being an active player!
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Nov 28, 2008 9:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed!
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 28, 2008 10:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
jump throws = dumb
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Nov 29, 2008 7:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You. Take. That. Back. NOW.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 29, 2008 11:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boy, Beltre pulled away bigtime
Beavan was actually leading when I shut my computer off this morning.
That’s good news for me though, as I’ll get to see the Boscan vs. Beav matchup I wanted at #12. Cools.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Nov 28, 2008 9:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Prediction: C-WIN
Bring up Matt West '09
by Chase Irwin on Nov 28, 2008 10:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you believe in wonderful?
Cause I know I do…
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 28, 2008 10:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably
But I want to see how close it’s going to be.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Nov 28, 2008 10:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to try my darndest to make that not happen...
With my 1 vote.
by hiafex on Nov 29, 2008 2:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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