Evan Grant with some notes from the GM meetings
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 3, 2008 4:06 PM CST
148 comments
Evan Grant has some bloggy notes up from the GM meetings. He says he's popular, because all the other writers want to know what the Rangers are going to do with their catching situation, and he offers a ranking of the current four in terms of the Rangers desire to hang onto them.
There's also an update on Jarrod Saltalamacchia's rehabilitation, thoughts on the rumored Scott Olsen/Saltalamacchia discussions, and some news on the Mike Maddux contract (two years at over $500K per year).
My 3 year, $4 million number that I threw out in the comments of this morning's post appears to be way high, therefore.
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Doesn’t sound like Saltalamacchia’s getting dealt in the next couple weeks.
Prediction: Laird for a relief pitcher this week, and probably not a major leaguer.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 3, 2008 4:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Salty is really the Rangers #2 choice to keep?
Really?
This seems like something JD conveniently leaked that to boost Salty’s depressing trade value right now.
by JBImaknee on Nov 3, 2008 4:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
What makes you think Saltamacchia's trade value is "depressing?"
I think that a lot of teams see him as young and untested. He sure didn’t hit all that well (or throw runners out), but I think a lot of teams can see a switch hitter with still a lot of potential. His value is down, but depressing? I would doubt it…
by FuturePants on Nov 3, 2008 4:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Depressing as in the verb
I don’t think anyone could argue that it is any higher now than it was 12 months ago.
I don’t think anyone could argue that his so-so last couple of months as a Ranger in 2007 increased his trade value.
Ever since JD got Salty, his trade value has dropped. He was the centerpiece of the Teixeira deal, and its hard to believe that the last year and a half he’s done anything but go down. This isn’t a slam on JD – all prospects either move up or down – but it is simply an indication of where he’s at. We’ve gone from arguing about “Salty for Snell” rumors to hoping “Salty for Olson” rumors are false.
by JBImaknee on Nov 3, 2008 5:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
You really hate Salty. How are you that confident that he’s a bust? (Yes, you didn’t say “bust”, but you’ve written him off.)
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Nov 3, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't *hate* Salty
I just haven’t seen anything in him to make me confident that he should be our catcher of the future. I’m not angry about the trade – obviously the other 4 pieces have more than surpassed whatever regression Salty has seen.
Now, I know that was not an ideal situation for either Laird or Salty, and I know he had some injury problems But I would have liked to see him step up to show us what he could do.
I’m also a sucker for defense in catchers (Pudge spoiled me, so sue me…). He only threw out 9 of 49 potential base stealers. That’s nearing Padre sucking territory.
by JBImaknee on Nov 3, 2008 5:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So in essence you are saying that you are disappointed that Salty wasn't very good this year?
by Telegraph on Nov 3, 2008 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anyone isn't somewhat disappointed
But I’m willing to give young guys a benefit of the doubt based on their potential. My real concern is what I mention just below. JD has to decide which of these guys to keep and which to deal, and he has to decide soon. Based on what we saw last year, I’d think that its best to move on from Salty.
Its like going on a series of dates with a couple of different girls who you really like around the same time. Obviously you’d like to string that out for a long time – but pretty soon they’re both going to start asking you to commit one way or another.
Salty may be the hottest and funniest of the two, but the sparks haven’t quite been kindled there yet. The other girl is Tea, who isn’t quite as “exciting,” but there is definitely some magic there. Now do you just keep at it with Salty, when nothing may ever materialize – even though you think it could? Or do you go with the one who you know matches well with you, even though you may never get perfection?
But you have to decide soon…
by JBImaknee on Nov 3, 2008 5:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but it'll have to depend on the offers for each of them
While you can prefer to trade Salty, but if you don’t get good offers for him, are you just going to trade him for the sake of trading him? Same thing with Teagarden, if you get a really good offer for him, would you still refuse?
To follow up your analogy with one 1050% more terrifying: suppose some billionaire dude has designs on your girls (bless your heart), and tells you that he likes T-Girl a lot, and will gives you 10 million bucks for you to give up on her so he can slide right in. He’ll also settle for S-Girl, but he doesn’t like her quite as much and will offer you a box of Campbell’s condensed soup (Cream of mushroom). Is the decision still quite so easy, even if you like condensed soup?
I would shop all of them actively, but make it clear that Teagarden’s price would be higher. In the end, I don’t think it’s necessarily wise to make a premeditated decision without considering for external influences.
by Telegraph on Nov 3, 2008 5:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd agree with all of that
It isn’t that I’m completely against Salty. I’d rather have Salty + Buchholz than Tea + Olson, obviously. And I’m realistic that Tea may have more value than Salty.
My only concern is that we’ll go into 2009 with too many catchers. I think if you go into 2009 “hoping” that Salty will rebound while holding out for more for Tea and keeping MaxRam in AAA, you can very likely end up with a worthless and frustrated Salty, Tea with less value, and a real logjam in 2010.
by JBImaknee on Nov 3, 2008 5:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and one more thing
I think we’re at a point where the team has to make a decision soon on these guys. I fully believe that we should only have 2 of these 4 guys by April. Which means you need to pick the two you would least mind seeing in another uniform and go with the other ones.
If we had no other catchers, then I’d be all for waiting for Salty to put it together. But with our situation, you have to make a decision based on what we’ve seen from these guys so far.
by JBImaknee on Nov 3, 2008 5:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well I'm pretty sure that you actually do hate him
Depressing as in the verb.
And, no, I don’t think he should be dumped because there is a “catcher crisis.”
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Nov 3, 2008 5:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What are you, LSJ's new sidekick on the Salty bandwagon?
Why do you think I hate him? I don’t hate Salty. Its not that don’t hate players. I hated Darren Oliver, I hated Mark McLemore, and I don’t care much for Kevin Millwood.
I’m also not saying to dump him. I’m not saying we should trade him for Olson or some other arbitration eligible guy some team doesn’t want. I’m just saying that I think his value is not going to get any higher going forward, and I’d prefer another guy as our long-term catcher. So I think we’re better off trading him now than waiting him out hoping he comes around.
by JBImaknee on Nov 3, 2008 5:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
The dude is 23 years old. Believe it or not.
I wouldn’t call myself a sidekick of Jesus’. I think that is reserved for LAMF or Rodney (“Mr. I give free I-Pods away.”)
An OPS+ of 91 is fairly close to league average of 100. I would guess that the catcher average is ~ 90?
Regardless, if you look at his minors’ performance and scouting reports, I think there is a good chance that his value returns significantly, so long as he’s given the chance for an extended period.
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Nov 3, 2008 5:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Watch it, MF!
;)
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
by Rodney on Nov 3, 2008 5:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If he was close to league average
at Catcher defensively, that 91 would probably be fine. He is pretty raw defensively though.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Nov 3, 2008 5:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He had a 100 point spread offensively
If his power comes around, look out.
I think his defense will be passable, in the end, while his offense will make him very valuable overall.
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Nov 3, 2008 5:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have to admit
I was hoping he’d be farther along now than he is, after the Teixeira trade. You can’t write him off at his age, but I was hearing a Mike Piazza type catcher, so the expectations for him were pretty unfairly high.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Nov 3, 2008 6:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, to be fair
Salty is already a far better defensive catcher than Piazza was, at least from my recollection.
by JBImaknee on Nov 3, 2008 6:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Piazza was THAT bad defensively?
That’s hard to believe.
by Athos on Nov 3, 2008 6:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He was pretty bad
from what I remember when watching him. But quickly looking at the inadequate fielding stats on baseball reference, I don’t think he was as bad as Salty was last year. I guess Salty was pretty bad…
by JBImaknee on Nov 3, 2008 6:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Piazza's bad defense was overrated...
He wasn’t bad in all aspects it’s just that his arm was pretty horrendous. Especially towards the end of his career.
by slimshadty12 on Nov 3, 2008 6:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He had a turrible arm and was painfully slow back there
but he never lacked for effort. He was always diving for balls and never ever hesitated to sell out to block an errant pitch. That might not sound like much, but a lot of guys won’t do those things night in and night out for one reason or another.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 3, 2008 7:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's my problem
I can live with a 91 – heck, I’ll take an 80 from Teagarden with his glove.
But league average bat + crappy fielding = someone who hasn’t shown me anything. If he had shown more with one or the other, I’d be happier.
by JBImaknee on Nov 3, 2008 5:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Consistent playing time
which is the same argument that can be used for Teagarden as well, except Teagarden has to prove healthy also.
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Nov 3, 2008 5:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Consistent playing time
I’m all for it. But I’m also realistic with the current situation. The only way you get Salty, Tea, and MaxRam consistent playing time is to have one of the latter two in AA (which is a waste), or move MaxRam off the plate (which is a waste).
How would you handle the situation if we don’t get any strong offers for Salty or Tea?
by JBImaknee on Nov 3, 2008 6:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly
I would start Salty full-time. That was the whole point of trading Mark Teixeira.
Salty is the younger and more elite prospect. His evaluation should be the priority, imo.
I have MaxRam in AAA full-time to decide if he is a catcher or not before he reaches MLB. If he is, consider trading him. But he also buys you time to sort out Salty / Tx2. If he can’t catch, he’ll be a decent DH.
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Nov 3, 2008 6:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This I don't agree with
That was the whole point of trading Mark Teixeira.
The point of trading him was to get the maximum value of prospects, which everyone will argue JD excelled at doing. You can’t let your rationale from two years ago dictate what you do today. One can argue the opposite – we should play Tea everyday because that was the point in drafting him. Or we should keep Laird, since that is why we traded Carlos Pena.
by JBImaknee on Nov 3, 2008 6:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No
You make damn sure to get a great evaluation on the centerpiece.
The rest will sort themselves out over time. But they need to be real careful with Salty’s development at this point, imo, or else they shouldn’t have picked a catcher as centerpiece, three days after acquiring Max Ram.
Agree to disagree.
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Nov 3, 2008 6:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't buy the whole "consistent playing time" argument.
The primary reason Laird has been the starter the last two seasons is because he took advantages of the limited opportunities Buck gave him a couple of years ago and forced his way into the equation. If a kid is a competitor and is going to be good enough to survive long term in the majors, he needs to be good enough to take advantages of the opportunities he gets rather than playing poorly and blaming the poor play on a lack of playing time.
by Athos on Nov 3, 2008 6:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Laird was also a few years older than Salty when breaking in
Salty gets a longer leash.
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Nov 3, 2008 6:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He'll get lots of opportunities, no doubt.
But he’d better make the most of them. Nobody is just going to hand him the starter’s role. He needs to show he’s good enough in limited chances before he’s anointed as the next big catching star.
by Athos on Nov 3, 2008 6:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've never bought the
deserves consistent playing time argument.
Players earn playing time. It shouldn’t just be awarded to players who don’t help the team when they play.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Nov 3, 2008 6:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"Players earn playing time."
In your estimation, how long would that take, Dan?
Can you earn playing time with a small sample? Can a small sample prevent you from earning playing time?
Would it vary, ever, depending on circumstances?
When would you pull the plug?
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Nov 3, 2008 6:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sooner or later
Saltalamacchia got 61 games and 231 PAs last year. Plenty of time to show what he has. That’s about a third of a season.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Nov 3, 2008 6:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So you're through with him, too?
How much more would you be able to stomach before saying that you’ve seen enough?
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Nov 3, 2008 6:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, Im not through with him
but I see no reason to make him the everyday starter either.
If I got good trade value for him, Id trade him, if not, Id hold onto him.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Nov 3, 2008 6:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm assuming
anything less than a #1 or #2, you hold on?
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Nov 3, 2008 6:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A potential #1 or #2*
Obviously you aren’t going to get an established #1 or #2, considering that Salty is still developing himself.
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Nov 3, 2008 6:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So what about when he was mashing the ball
just before Laird came back and then was told Laird was the full time starter. Was he not earning playing time then?
Also, his patience approach at the plate is something that I think will translate to much better success once he gets more consistent playing time.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 4, 2008 12:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mashing the ball?
His OPS during Lairds absence was 622 with zero home runs. I wouldn’t call that mashing the ball.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 4, 2008 7:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
From June 20th - July 27th
When Laird was down with his injury.
I will say though that the time from June 20th till the ASB was way worse than the ASB-July 27th. But that was only like 4 games so the whole “small sample size” argument may apply.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 4, 2008 8:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe
that his entire year could be called a small sample size, no? Both he and Laird got jerked around pretty good. Would love to know the reason they had for that. Small sample size aside though his August line of .355 .429 .484 .913 is closer to what I and baseball people I discuss the game with, believe he is capable of.
Also, not to make excuses, but wasnt the time span you are referencing, when he was playing with a broken foot and a pulled groin?
by 3bagbeast on Nov 4, 2008 8:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have never heard of the broken foot
The groin was during that time. Im not saying he isn’t a good young player but the argument that he never got a chance to play everyday is wrong. And when he did quite frankly he didn’t impress whether that was due to injury or what.
Hes had an OPS+ of 91 in each of his two seasons in the bigs. However I would much rather have his 2007 season than his 2008 season. I can live with less walks and a lower OBP if he is hitting more home runs since his offense is supposed to be his calling card. But this past year even though his numbers statistically bear that he was the same doesn’t mean he looked or impressed the same.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 4, 2008 8:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It was well known
that he took a Joba FB foul tip off his foot that tore the ligament off the bone along with a piece of bone. The Doc said he could stay off of it and it would heal in 2-3 weeks or play through the pain and it would heal in about 6-8 weeks barring more foul balls off the foot.
Right or wrong he sucked it up and did what he could to help his team which the team allowed. Maybe not good for his stats but shows character and guts to most. He has told me many times how much he loves the Rangers and doesnt want to be traded but he also understands (as we all do) its nothing but a business and he has little to say about it.
by 3bagbeast on Nov 4, 2008 9:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not saying I don't believe you
but I don’t remember the foot injury and I can’t find a story talking about it…
Do you have a link to a story that mentions it, or do you know exactly when it happened?
Thanks…
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 4, 2008 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Injury
Im sorry I just don’t recall hearing about a broken foot. I remember the groin injury and I agree it shows guts to play with an injury like that especially at catcher. And I have no doubts it did affect his performance. Unfortunately like you said Salty understands this is a business. he should also understand that in some cases if you are given an opportunity no matter how hurt or bad you are feeling if you don’t perform it is going to be looked on unfavorably. he was given a month basically of playing the majority of the time. For 3/4 of that month he stunk it up. Hurt or not thats not good.
And like Dirk said either above or below me I don’t recall ever hearing about the foot injury you are talking about. And I follow the rangers quite closely.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 4, 2008 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I looked thru the LSB and NMLR archives
and I can’t find anything saying he had a hurt foot. Maybe I’m looking in the wrong place……
It’s either that, or it was not “widely known.”
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 4, 2008 10:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I remember that injury
But, best I could find:
Date On Date Off
8/14/08 8/14/08 Foot questionable
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
by Rodney on Nov 4, 2008 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats well after the timeline we are discussing
We are referring to the time from 6/20-7/27 when Laird was out. All I remember during that timeframe was a groin injury
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 4, 2008 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I"m referencing his nice 5 game
hot streak he had from July 21-26. He had an .873 OPS during that time. It is a small sample size, but that isn’t the time to be benching your 23 year old, former top catching prospect outright for Laird coming straight off the DL. I have no idea why the Rangers did that outside of the distant chance that it would raise Laird’s value enough to trade him. Still, from the 21st of July until the end of the season for Salty, he had a .905 OPS through 19 games/61 PAs.
And as 3bagbeast mentioned already, Salty played his second half of the season through various injuries.
And I love that .354 OBP from a 23 year old catcher. If he starts making more contact and not striking out on those full counts enough to raise his BA to a .280 range, you are looking at some great production from your catcher. Salty’s also got too much power to be slugging .364 again.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 4, 2008 9:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"He’s basically told himself unconsciously that he can’t be any good unless he catches 130 games a year. If he played with the baseball smarts of a guy like a David Eckstein, he’d maximize his talent and be an incredible player." - Andy Seiler, Texas Rangers Analyst
by Chase Irwin on Nov 4, 2008 9:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Salty
Would you rather have his 2007 line or his 2008 line? Both years he put up OPS+ of 91. In one he wasn’t as patient and showed more offensively while in the other he was patient at the plate but his offense suffered.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 4, 2008 9:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Neither
"He’s basically told himself unconsciously that he can’t be any good unless he catches 130 games a year. If he played with the baseball smarts of a guy like a David Eckstein, he’d maximize his talent and be an incredible player." - Andy Seiler, Texas Rangers Analyst
by Chase Irwin on Nov 4, 2008 9:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have a problem with that
I’m more surprised by Laird over Max.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. But in the mean time, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-8 baby!
by sprite on Nov 3, 2008 4:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the rangers and wash in particular are really really down on his defense
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Nov 3, 2008 5:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How does that boost it?
Laird obviously doesn’t have much of a future here being the oldest and being controlled for the least amount of time as well as having a much lower ceiling. All signs are pointing to Ramirez ending up playing another position or at the very least, not being good enough defensively to be an everyday catcher. So really it is mainly just Teagarden vs. Salty and they apparently prefer Teagarden.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 3, 2008 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not boost in as much as the alternatives hurt his value.
One can imagine that the Rangers don’t see Salty as a long term solution, given that he hasn’t hit that much better than Laird and certainly doesn’t field better than him.
But saying that would decimate Salty’s value, whereas saying “I prefer Salty to Laird because the former is younger and more dynamic” doesn’t hurt Laird’s value any.
You can put MaxRam #4 if you have no intention of trading him this year anyway.
Of course, it could be how the Rangers really see it. But I’m too cynical to believe that JD just reveals his inner thoughts to EG without some ulterior motive.
by JBImaknee on Nov 3, 2008 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
nothing but good news there
Getting Maddux at a reasonable rate is…good, I guess. Honestly, it amazes me that coaches don’t get more when players get what they get, and the argument could certainly be made that they can lead to more win shares than players who get much more.
The real good news is the vibe he sends out about catchers. No one really believes that Salty would get dealt for Olsen. As average fans, we know about his character issues and deminished velocity, so it is naive to think JD and his peeps would not.
I stand by my best case scenario of Teagarden’s value getting hyped to the point that he returns a pitcher like Buchholz, and Laird getting dealt for a bullpen arm (Pinto, one of the Yanks’ surplus) and a promising kid a few years away from the 40 man roster.
by clark on Nov 3, 2008 4:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
this comment drives me crazy
I’ve told my colleagues that the Rangers would probably rank their catchers in this order (in terms of wanting to hold on to them): 1. Taylor Teagarden, 2. Jarrod Saltalamacchia, 3. Gerald Laird, 4. Max Ramirez.
If the Rangers are truly wanting to hold onto Laird over Max, then I just don’t know what to say. This depresses me.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 3, 2008 4:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
i touched on this
in my wildly popular “Monday Links” fanpost. He was just voted as a top 30 prospect in all of baseball on that fansite (which I know is not the final word in player valuation) and yet it sounds like many around here see him as nothing more than “our fourth catcher.”
I am afraid Max has fallen into a purgatory of sorts because people are not convinced he can catch. I think JD is smart enough to let him spend all of next year in AAA catching, or, if the organization has seen enough to truly believe he will never be an adequate defensive catcher, to trade him to a team that believes in his value.
by clark on Nov 3, 2008 4:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think too many people are concentrating on what he can't do
and ignoring what he can do, which is become an elite middle of the order masher.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 3, 2008 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes but just because they view him as 4th at catcher
doesnt mean they view him as 4th in overall value.
i think if they had 4 choices for opening day catcher they may put max last, but id be very surpised (and disappointed as you are) if they rank his overall value below laird.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Nov 3, 2008 5:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I took that to mean
that we’re gonna need Laird around here if we trade Tea or Salty … or BOTH of them. I doubt the Rangers view Max as a full-time catcher and would consider him being a back-up next season as detrimental to his development.
by shroomer on Nov 3, 2008 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Astute observation
Laird has a history of hitting well in a part-time/backup role.
by Joey Matschulat on Nov 3, 2008 9:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah..
….remember when everyone was clamoring for him to be the starter over Barajas, then when it happened he sort of sucked? Good times.
by FuturePants on Nov 4, 2008 8:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yah that's effing stupid.
I have Max as my number one guy to keep out of all of ’em.
I can understand ranking him third… but fourht behind effing Laird???
W T F ?!?!?!?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 3, 2008 5:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How do you trade Salty if he's in rehab?
Do you let a hot buyer poke and prod him first?
Does his questionable health mean he probably won’t be traded until the scouts see him throw in Spring Training?
by shroomer on Nov 3, 2008 4:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
he should start winter ball
in two weeks, and i am sure plenty of scouts will be on hand.
by clark on Nov 3, 2008 4:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's okay
I usually need to be told things twice.
by shroomer on Nov 3, 2008 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But me..
….I’m an unforgiving iron clad jerk. I said it first, you were a whole minute later, you should be IP banned. Adam? Make that happen.
by FuturePants on Nov 3, 2008 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gawd Micheal!
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
by Rodney on Nov 3, 2008 5:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Does his questionable health mean he probably won’t be traded until the scouts see him throw in Spring Training?
Either that or deeper into the winter. If a contender like Boston’s in on him, they won’t wait until ST.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 3, 2008 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Saltys
health is fine and his elbow has been cleared by Andrews and the team MD. He is actually throwing 180 feet now without any discomfort and already has scouts watching him throw. He will be playing in the Dominican in 2 weeks whether he is traded or not unless the new team says no. He looks good and is working out hard. Just some FYI.
by 3bagbeast on Nov 3, 2008 5:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So why did you change your name?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 3, 2008 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He thinks you're 525dp
because we haven’t seen Salty’s dad around in a while and he usually comments when the subject is Jarrod.
You could be him for all we know.
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Nov 3, 2008 5:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
His one other post on the redsox blog kind of sounds like him.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Nov 3, 2008 5:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
same tone and defensive nature.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 3, 2008 5:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lol
I can’t believe you noticed that. How hilarious.
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Nov 3, 2008 6:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
I have known the family for years and played ball with his brother. I work out with him at the same gym and he catches my pens off-season. His Dad (525dp) also coached me back in the day. From what I understand he doesnt come on these boards any more due to a few of the childish and rude posters. I would say you have to know him and if you did I really dont believe they would have given him an attitude. LOL
by 3bagbeast on Nov 3, 2008 5:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
People on here didnt do anything to him
He was defensive about his son, which is perfectly understandable. Id surely be the same way about someone I knew or a relative, let alone a son.
But there’s no reason everyone else should censor their opinions on a ranger player around him, and its not rude if you don’t.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Nov 3, 2008 5:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Part of the reason he doesn’t come to these boards anymore is his interest in Salty is on a completely different level than ours. It’s natural to be optimistic about someone for whom you vest great interest (more than the fan) in, and that can take away from your objectivity. Also, arguments on the other side (speaking poorly of Salty) elicits stronger emotional responses. This leads to a great deal of tension. It’s one thing to say that some player on my team sucks, it’s a completely different matter to say that one’s son sucks.
I don’t blame him, but it’s just the natural consequence of circumstances.
by Telegraph on Nov 3, 2008 5:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
For your information 525 was not the most friendly guy on these boards. Not trying to excuse or condone what some said to him mind you.
However he was not a good parent fan in my opinion. Any and all criticism, justified or not, of his son was met with very emotional replies. There are some very knowledgeable baseball fans on this board and some of the critiques of Salty were very warranted. 525 would come on here and try and explain away any and all of those critiques and when he would get rebuffed he would get mad that we were criticizing his son.
As to Salty you have got to understand where alot of Ranger fans are coming from. We acquired him from Atlanta in the Teixeira trade. He was the centerpiece of that deal as it was presented to us fans. Andrus and Feliz were nice prospects along with harrison and Jones but Salty was billed as a young catcher who would basically give us our very own Joe Mauer minus the defense. His offensive abilities were lauded and he was supposed to be the main player in exchange for Tex. There is no denying the Rangers did not utilize him the best way possible upon acquiring him. We flip flopped him between catcher and 1B and that obviously messed with his play in 2007. Then we platooned him last year.
But when he did play there were obvious holes in his game that even the most basic of fan could pretty easily identify. His throwing out baserunners was bad. Really bad. And his offense was not the game changing offense we were led to believe. His numbers look to be like an average offensive catcher which isn’t exactly a bad thing. But when you are advertised to have a great offensive catcher those same average numbers don’t look so hot.
Personally I hated seeing him walk so damn much. OBP is a great thing don’t get me wrong. But at the same time if I have a great offensive player at the plate I would much rather have them swing at good pitches rather than watch them go for called strikes. I saw that far too many times this last year. Im not trying to compare the two but look at Chris Davis. He came up advertised as an amazing offensive player. Did he strike out alot and not walk very much? Yeah. But by taking more chances and swinging at more pitches he also became a fan favorite real quick by mashing home runs and driving in runs. I think the vast majority of fans on here would take a lower OBP and more strikeouts from Salty if it meant seeing him circle the bases more than 3 times like last year.
And the worst part for Salty I believe was this past year coincided with the emergence offensively of Max Ramirez and the development of Teagarden. He no longer has a real advantage over any of the other two besides his age which may not be enough to keep him as a Ranger. I like Salty but I think ultimately he will be traded to a team that can give him the chance he needs and deserves.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 3, 2008 6:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If he made it all the way through that
I’d give him a gold star
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 3, 2008 7:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yep that sums it up all right..
very well put Bigsteve!
Steal Home R.I.P. 9/10/08
by LAMuscleFag on Nov 3, 2008 11:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
friendly question
how do you know all of this?
by clark on Nov 3, 2008 5:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't say anything that hasn't been reported
by Telegraph on Nov 3, 2008 5:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
where?
For example, Grant said Salty is throwing from 120, and he says “actually throwing from 180 now,” which leads me to believe he has more updated information. but I could be a sucker.
by clark on Nov 3, 2008 5:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
errr... you are right
the 2 looks a lot like the 8, you know…. yeah….
by Telegraph on Nov 3, 2008 5:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I work out with him
….or should really say “try” to work out with him. LOL
by 3bagbeast on Nov 3, 2008 5:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What is the big Italy excursion?
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Nov 3, 2008 4:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Grant’s fresh off a vacation to Italy.
by shroomer on Nov 3, 2008 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nota bene
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Nov 3, 2008 5:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rangers after Fuentes
The Mets, Rangers, Indians and Cardinals are expected to be among the biggest players for star free-agent closer Brian Fuentes, according to people familiar with his situation.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/11/03/heyman.fuentes/index.html?eref=si_mlb
http://mvn.com/baseballtimeinarlington/2008/11/report-texas-rangers-to-pursue-brian-fuentes.html
by Joey Matschulat on Nov 3, 2008 5:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yuck
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Nov 3, 2008 5:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't worry
The Mets will get him.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 3, 2008 8:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Seems to be the way the wind is blowing
There’s mutual interest between the two sides and the Mets are far better positioned to make a serious play for Fuentes than Texas.
Still, it’s out there.
by Joey Matschulat on Nov 3, 2008 9:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
whither K-Rod?
I thought the Mets were the best fit for him.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 3, 2008 9:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Mets are the best fit for any closer
but they seem to be after Fuentes.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 3, 2008 11:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What about Atlanta?
Well if John Smoltz doesn’t go back to the bullpen..
by tyd3311 on Nov 4, 2008 8:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
/Facepalm
Meaning of life? The aggregate collection of moments that you allow to enter into your consciousness, imo, fwiw, etc. (etc.)
by Chase Irwin on Nov 3, 2008 5:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 3, 2008 5:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't do it JD...
don’t do it.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 3, 2008 6:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Horrible, horrible news.
Hopefully just lazy reporting. You know, “Well, it’s a pitcher so the Rangers have to be involved!” kind of logic.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 3, 2008 7:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
3/$36 for Brian Freakin' Fuentes???
"Colt mccoy sucks, mack brown needs to be fired." - Longhorn
by DaheelzCM on Nov 3, 2008 7:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In other news...odd end to this saga.
Marlins claimed LHP Dan Meyer off waivers from the Athletics.
Meyer is a long shot to turn into a useful major league pitcher at this point, but there’s nothing wrong with using a waiver claim on him. The former Braves prospect went 10-5 with a 4.48 ERA, 113 H and 109/52 K/BB in 122 2/3 IP as a starter for Triple-A Sacramento last season. However, the Marlins see him as a reliever. He was 0-4 with a 7.48 ERA in four starts and seven relief appearances for Oakland.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
by Rodney on Nov 3, 2008 5:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Dirk
It appears we aren’t the only ones pontificating about the merits of Sonnanstine vs Jackson
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=1102
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Nov 3, 2008 7:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Very interesting.
Seems like most agree with me. Guess that’s one of the advantages of being right ;)
I’d be so down with swinging something for Sonny, but I don’t know that we’re a great fit. Seems like they’re looking for help in RF, DH and in the ’pen.
I’m trying to put something together off the top of my head am struggling a bit. Maybe their choice from our COF pu-pu platter of Cruz/Byrd/Murphy + their choice of Ceej/Benoit? But that doesn’t seem like enough to me. Bah… I’m drawing a blank right now.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 3, 2008 8:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
whoa there
first of all, Murphy and Byrd have different values because of the amount of years they are locked up. if it is one year of byrd, then yes, we should add another player. but this is not the right time to be trading CJ Wilson. Last year we could have probably gotten Sonnastine for him straight up. Let CJ come back this year and pitch like he did in 07 when he was healthy, and then think about trading him. I like Sonnastine enough, but he is a pretty league average starter, and he definitely isn’t worth two valuable pieces of our major league team.
by clark on Nov 4, 2008 8:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OT: AFC North= AL West?
Steelers-Angels. Always pretty good and dominate their division. defense-orientated
Ravens-A’s. All defense, no offense. the only other somewhat contender in the North,
Browns-Mariners. Both suck and both were supposed to be really good this year
Bengals-Rangers, all offense, no defense/pitching. Both historically are bad
by Save us on Nov 3, 2008 8:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
OT
mavs suck.
in 2010 the rangers will be the better team, woo.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Nov 3, 2008 9:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Could be close this year
I want to kill Jason Terry.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 3, 2008 11:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because of his Wingstop spots on the Ticket?
by LiamP on Nov 4, 2008 12:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They don't help
but mostly because the team hemorrhages when he’s out there. He’s like a -1 per minute so far this season. That’s almost impossible to do. I swear, I prefer to see Barea out there right now. Carlisle needs to give him about a month long rest rather than trying to play him back into form. Stackhouse too, but at least he has an excuse.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 4, 2008 1:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
that was one of the worst games I’d ever seen Dirk play.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 4, 2008 9:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Regular season, early, etc.
But troubling, nonetheless.
"He’s basically told himself unconsciously that he can’t be any good unless he catches 130 games a year. If he played with the baseball smarts of a guy like a David Eckstein, he’d maximize his talent and be an incredible player." - Andy Seiler, Texas Rangers Analyst
by Chase Irwin on Nov 4, 2008 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also
It’s looking like miles has struck again: http://www.lonestarball.com/2008/10/9/631796/ot-antoine-wright-a-star-i
by Brett Perryman on Nov 4, 2008 4:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can we get
Oakland to fire Billy Beane and hire Miles? Or maybe get the Angels to hire him?
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Nov 4, 2008 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ehhh...
Peavy adds Angels to approved teams.
http://blogs.weei.com/alexspeier/2008/11/03/peavy-blocks-trade-to-sox/
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 3, 2008 10:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Go Angels
If they have to give up Kendrick, Adenhart and others, I’m all for Peavy in LAA.
by robert_d_wilfong on Nov 3, 2008 10:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Concur
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 3, 2008 11:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bleh
They’d come out ahead in a deal like that. I have a hard time imagining a Peavy deal that would actually hurt the Angels unless they started giving up guys from their current rotation.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 3, 2008 11:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Something like Kendrick, Adenhart, Conger, and Walden would probably be bad news for the Rangers. Thats a pretty good 2B, a young pitcher that put up a Hurley type year, a catcher would may not stay behind the plate, and a pretty good young starter prospect. Equivalent from the Rangers would be something like Andrus, Hurley, Max, Beaven, which would seem like a win for the Rangers to me.
by groundingout on Nov 4, 2008 12:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess it depends on what you think
Peavy is going to be over the remaining term of his contract. I’m of the opinion that there’s a significant amount of risk. And if the Angels have to extend him in order for him to agree to the trade, I like the idea of LAA tying up another $70M on a player with a higher than average risk factor.
by robert_d_wilfong on Nov 4, 2008 8:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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