How many Rangers do you see in the Baseball America Top 100?
by dustinvandeman on Nov 30, 2008 10:44 AM CST
78 comments
here is the current list (based on LSB's rankings)
The list so far:
1. LHP, Derek Holland.
2. RHP, Neftali Feliz
3. 1b, Justin Smoak
4. RHP, Michael Main
5. SS, Elvis Andrus
6. C, Taylor Teagarden
7. C, Maximiliano Ramirez
8. LHP, Martin Perez
9. OF, Julio Borbon
10. RHP, Eric Hurley
11. OF, Engel Beltre
i think we could all agree holland, feliz, smoak, and andrus are locks. I think main has a very good chance to make it as well even though rangers fans view him more highly than other baseball fans around the nation. I also think tea and max should be in there as well given their development. I think that is most likely all we have unless perez sneaks in there which he very well could. 7 players in baseball america's top 100. not too bad imo.
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9 or 10
Holland, Feliz, Smoak, Main, Andrus, Teagarden, Max, Borbon and Beltre are almost surefire locks. Perez should sneak on to the end of the list but I could see him being left off. Hurley doesn’t make it
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 30, 2008 11:02 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
i think 10 may be wishful thinking even though they may be deserving
10 players would basically be 3 teams worth of prospects in the top 10. could be done but would be tough. anyone know off hand how many players the rays had in the top 100 last year?
by dustinvandeman on Nov 30, 2008 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They had 7 last year
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 30, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hmm
i’d take 7…i think the a’s should have several as well and the rays should also be well represented
by dustinvandeman on Nov 30, 2008 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, homer
9 or 10, sheesh. I think 6 or 7 is a good guess. Feliz, Holland, Smoak and Andrus are locks. Teagarden is well respected and gets on, too, with Main and Perez being darkhorses. I’d be surprised if Borbon makes it, Max doesn’t quite make it, and Beltre is viewed as toolsy but nowhere near a lock to make it. Hurley doesn’t even get considered.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 30, 2008 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Prospects
Callis loves Beltre which makes me think he will make it on there. Maxs bat is just too good to leave off. I could see Borbon being left off but his proximity to the majors I think will slide him on. Main and perez actually are the ones I am concerned about. Perez more simply because hes so far off.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 30, 2008 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Max's bat
isn’t too good to leave off. They might put him on, but it’s no slam dunk. And if you’re talking about who Callis likes, he’s spoken in much more glowing terms about Perez than Beltre. There isn’t much difference between those two in terms of being proven prospects either.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 30, 2008 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One of my points in that
is that other teams have prospects, too. The Rangers may have the best system, and though a guy like Max might be talented enough to be on there in the abstract, you’re saying they won’t find other guys on the other 29 teams. I just think it’s unrealistic.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 30, 2008 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that
But you have some systems that will have one or zero top 100 prospects. There are some really bad farm systems out there.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 30, 2008 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Last year...
…two organizations (Tampa and Boston) had 7 guys in the top 100. Texas was part of a group of 7 teams that had 5 prospects.
Only 1 team had 0 prospects, and 4 had 1 prospect apiece.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 30, 2008 12:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was looking back a little
The last time someone had more than seven, I think, was the Dodgers three years ago:
Billingsley
LaRoche
Guzman
Martin
Elbert
Broxton
DeWitt
Ethier
Kemp
The thing there is that those back-end guys were very established, well thought-of prospects. And they had Loney, Edwin Jackson, and others left off that year.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 30, 2008 12:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
last year
Last years list was
Elvis (19) probably stay right around this area
Davis (65) not eligible
Hurley (77) won’t make the list
Teagarden (80) probably move up 20 spots or so
Feliz (93) huge jump. Top 10 probably
So thats three guys. Then add on Holland and Smoak for sure. They love both Perez and Beltre so theres 7. How do you leave off Max after the year he had? And then Main makes 9. I have a hard time believeing we won’t get that many after all the hype our system has gotten these last 12 months
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 30, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Max
I think that’s where you could be disappointed. It was only 243 AB, and he was a 23 year old in AA (not really a prime age for that level, and could be a DH type). I love Ramirez, but BA has never liked him very much.
And Beltre could make it, but I’m thinking he has to be #8.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 30, 2008 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Elvis, Feliz, Smoak and Holland are all pretty much locks.
Teagarden struggled with the bat this year in the minors, which could drop him from the list.
They love Perez and Beltre, but I don’t think it is a given Beltre makes the top 100, particularly given that he didn’t really tear it up in the MWL.
Max gets left off because there are those who don’t think he can stick at catcher and don’t think his swing will work as well at the major league level.
Main is a possibility. Borbon is a possibility. But Main, in particular, isn’t a lock, I don’t think.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 30, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Max may well be left off the list
but I have never seen anyone contend that Max’s swing won’t work well at the ML level. In fact, I’ve never seen any negative comment about his swing.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 30, 2008 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've seen comments suggesting
that his power from AA won’t translate. That’s mostly all I’ve seen.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 30, 2008 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yah, I've seen whispers about some scouts not thinking he's well-equiped to handle ML pitching.
But I believe.
I could see BA putting him anywhere in the 80-120 range.
But maybe they’ll surprise and put him higher. Soto was a similar prospect last year as a 24 year old who suddenly had a breakout season in AAA and got 47th, though he did at a higher level and didn’t have the same chorus of D doubters.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 30, 2008 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think 80-120 is right
And as far as his power, scouts have a harder time correctly diagnosing that than any other part of the game, particularly for guys who aren’t physically dominant guys. If Ramirez were 6-3, 220 and had top end bat speed, they wouldn’t question it. But little pudgy 5-10 guys whose AA HRs all land about 10-15 feet past the wall can confound scouts.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 30, 2008 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 30, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I realize that you already know this
but others may not, so for the record…
Max has a career minor league line of .314/.414/.521 in over 1700 plate appearances. He has always been a very good hitter with outstanding plate discipline, everywhere he has ever played. When a guy with this type of batting eye and ability to square the ball all the sudden has a huge power spike as he hits 23 years old – then I think that what you are seeing is likely the final stage in the maturation of a dominant masher.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 30, 2008 4:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
especially when the power outburst occurs in a players first exposure to AA
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Nov 30, 2008 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the chances...
…of the Rangers getting 9 or 10 guys in the top 100 are remote.
I certainly don’t think Ramirez, Teagarden, Main, Borbon and Beltre are locks to make the top 100.
Holland, Feliz, Andrus and Smoak will be in the top 100, but everyone after that is questionable.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 30, 2008 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think seven
Feliz
Smoak
Holland
Andrus
Teagarden
will make it, probably in that order (Holland and Smoak will probably be close).
Then two of Beltre, Perez, Borbon, Main and Ramirez. My guess is:
Main
Perez
by Brett Perryman on Nov 30, 2008 11:06 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
One other thing on this
Fitt does the Rangers top ten a week from Monday. We’ll have a much better idea on who the best candidates are in their eyes at that point. Fitt has most of the say, but Callis & co. do have input on it, and if they have, say, Ramirez five and Main ten, that would give you a good idea of what’s going on. I expect to see Perez very high on their list and Main probably in the top seven, though.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 30, 2008 11:49 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
My prediction. . .
Feliz
Holland
Smoak
Teagarden
Andrus
Ramirez
Main
I could see Borbon and/or Beltre, as well, but that just seems like too many.
by philkid3 on Nov 30, 2008 11:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I endorse this list
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on Dec 1, 2008 8:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
From the posts here so far
I think you guys are underrating what they think of Perez. Remember, Feliz made it after 15 A- innings last year and less BA buzz than Perez.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 30, 2008 12:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yah
there’s always 17 and 18 yr olds on the top 100…. not sure how many are out there that have as much buzz as Martin
"Holland didn’t make that kid question his swing, he made him question his career path"
by trident on Nov 30, 2008 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Inoa mainly
and he’ll be on there too.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 30, 2008 12:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's much talked about
but not all positive like with Perez.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 30, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right.
Isn’t that generally the case with young (in this case, very young) power hitters though? He’s still mega-hyped and I think he’ll be ranked considerably higher than Perez.
by LiamP on Nov 30, 2008 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There isn't a huge track record
of 17 year old sluggers in full season ball. I always look at guys like Miguel Cabrera and Vlad Guerrero, and the big difference with those guys and Villalona is that they had some semblence of plate discipline. But at any rate, Villalona is probably higher than Perez, but I just think people may be surprised with how much they think of him and how solidly he is on the list.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 30, 2008 12:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Inoa
He seems like a no-doubter, along with Cahill and Anderson.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 30, 2008 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Perez
Does Perez need more fastball to make it? Is his repertoire at that age make him stand out enough?
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 30, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
John Manuel:
But Perez, this is a guy who’s got top of the rotation stuff and potential. He could be a guy who in future years is a guy you’re looking to as maybe a future Jon Lester, your homegrown, lefthanded, front of the rotation starter… I got a Johan Santana comp on Perez from a scout in the Northwest the other day, he sounds extremely exciting.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 30, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And of course
Callis has said that Perez has more upside than Holland. However you want to slice it, they think he has enough stuff to make him stand out.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 30, 2008 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll say eight...
Feliz
Holland
Smoak
Main
Andrus
Teagarden
Perez
Beltre
I think Beltre barely makes it into the top 100.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 30, 2008 12:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Early spring after all the top 10's are done.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 30, 2008 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My guesses
Locks:
Feliz
Holland
Andrus
Smoak
Good bets:
Teagarden-One of the top catching prospects in baseball
Perez-Young player, great ceiling, some of the BA guys seem to love him. I’d be surprised if he doesn’t crack the top 100.
Borbon-Top draft pick, he’s got the speed and defense combo BA loves, started to learn how to take a walk this fall/winter, and of course he’s close to the Majors.
We’ll see:
Main-I think Rangers fans and bloggers are ahead of the curve on this one. Not sure if BA will rank him that high
Beltre-Lots of tools, decent performance in full season ball
Ramirez-Great bat, but they may frown a lot on him not playing good defense, enough to knock him out of the top 100. FWIW, minorleagueball.com’s community prospects have him at 30.
Long shots, but somewhat justifiable to round out the list:
Hurley-was in their previous top 100s, they may have not been as down on him as we are
Beaven-top draft pick who looked good in his first taste of pro ball
Hunter-again, a top draft pick. Managed to make it to the Majors in his first full season of pro ball though ideally would have stayed in AAA.
Lemon-because he’s awesome :D
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 30, 2008 1:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea. Between 5 and 8. Who knows.
The real strength of this team would be if you did a top 150 or even 200 list.
We’re deep as fudge.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 30, 2008 1:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
agreed
our 11-20 list of prospects would like as good as some systems 1-10. hell ill go as far as saying we have some guys in the 20-25 range that would make some teams top 10
by dustinvandeman on Nov 30, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yea
when we got a top draft pick who performs very well in his first full year out of our top ten you know we got a really, really deep system… hell i bet Beaven would be the #1 prospect in the Astros system and top 2 or 3 in several other systems
by blalock84 on Nov 30, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Beavan
he’d easily be behind Castro. He’d be in the mix with Norris, a couple of the high picks this year, and maybe Johnson
by Brett Perryman on Nov 30, 2008 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know about this
our 11-20 list of prospects would like as good as some systems 1-10
It might be equivalent to some teams’ 4-13 or 5-14, but there isn’t a farm system in baseball that has a worse 1-2 than our 11-12. And the top end of something like that is much more important than the low end.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 30, 2008 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that makes sense
Most teams have a few good talents (see our DVD from a few years ago).
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 30, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Houston's 1-10 or our 11-20.
I dunno… that’s tough. I’d have to do more research on the subject but wouldn’t Houston at least consider that trade?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 30, 2008 2:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It might be at least debatable
but you’re talking about the extreme worst system in baseball. Detroit and Washington, who many consider to be the two next worse, wouldn’t even give it a second’s thought.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 30, 2008 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed.
I was just saying it wasn’t that crazy.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Nov 30, 2008 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
they'd lose some
better prospects for a whole lot more depth.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 30, 2008 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Minor League Ball's Top 100 Community Rankings...
…have 7 Rangers so far through 80 prospects and Martin Perez was just the runner up so he figures to make the list eventually… Don’t know if someone else will make the list but here is where our players got voted so far…
Feliz (9)
Holland (17)
Smoak (22)
Andrus (24)
Ramirez (30)
Teagarden (45)
Main (61)
4 players in the top 25 there and 5 in the top 30, not too bad… They are a lot higer on Maximus than I would imagine but it’s just a poll so maybe us ranger fans have done some biased voting. Either way I think my prediction is around 8 for our # of prospects in BA top 100.
by rangerjake on Nov 30, 2008 3:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Perez
should make their top 100 as well, fwiw. He’s been very close on votes in the 70s.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 30, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ramirez
way too high on that list.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 30, 2008 4:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
is Matt Laporta (10)
to high on that list as well?
45-35
Jindal '12
by Longhorn on Nov 30, 2008 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There's a lot wrong
with that list, but that’s to be expected when most there (definitely including myself) know a lot about their favorite team’s guys and very little about anyone else.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 30, 2008 11:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Both Ramirez and Teagarden are way too high on that list
Both of them need to be closer to the 60s, but this is a community poll over on minorleagueball, so it is flattering that many over there are very high on our system
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Nov 30, 2008 5:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Flattering
I don’t think so. Those guys are that high in part because a bunch of people here went over there and voted for them that high regardless of whether or not they belonged there.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 30, 2008 11:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Even if we are ballot stuffing over there (and I know some of us are)
Still, many over on that board consider us to be the top system in the minor leagues. Sure, some of them question the picks, but they know that these are good players who they didn’t have to put on the polls but did. Just because we put them on the list by stuffing doesn’t mean much, just to have them place our players on the polls makes it flattering
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Dec 1, 2008 2:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't really care about rankings.
I’m more impressed with championships.
meet me at the mawwl... it's goin dowwn...
by oc on Nov 30, 2008 4:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Then I nominate you as the Champion Douche of this board
"Colt mccoy sucks, mack brown needs to be fired." - Longhorn
by DaheelzCM on Nov 30, 2008 4:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
'Douche' just isn't as effective as it once was.
meet me at the mawwl... it's goin dowwn...
by oc on Nov 30, 2008 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is that supposed to be a parody of something
or just the most obvious, unnecessary, useless comment ever?
by Brett Perryman on Nov 30, 2008 4:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Dunno about that.
I’m more impressed with rankings.
Eff championships.
by LiamP on Nov 30, 2008 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Can't it be both?
meet me at the mawwl... it's goin dowwn...
by oc on Nov 30, 2008 6:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure but
if it’s a parody, that kind of supercedes the other alternative.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 30, 2008 8:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take a shot at it and place them where i think they'll be
Feliz – Top 15
Holland – Between 20-30
Smoak – Around 30
Andrus – 30-45
Teagarden – 55-65
MaxRam – 70-80 (they are probably high on his bat)
Main – 85-100
Perez – 90-100
Just missed: Bourbon, Beltre, Hurley
I think we got a chance for 8, since many of them are high on our system, and I see a couple of our prospects sneaking in at the end of the list. The only thing is, is that how our lower pitching prospects (Main, Perez) stack up to proven pitchers in higher leagues in BA’s eyes. That will be interesting to see
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Nov 30, 2008 5:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I kind of like this list
but I’d put Perez higher than Main if both make it, and Max lower.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 30, 2008 11:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Main and Perez are very changable
Many scouts have them very high, but in this list, I would too probably put Perez higher, since I’ve seen more scouts higher on him them Main. Either way, both of them are going to end up in the 80-100 range.
With Max, his bat probably puts him higher; thats the only reason I rank him that high
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Dec 1, 2008 2:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and another thing
I would love to see where they have Inoa on this list (if at all) and if he’s higher than Perez or Main. That would strike up some interesting conversations
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Nov 30, 2008 5:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
If the fan vote on Sickel's site is any guide...
9 or 10 Rangers is very realistic. The Rangers already have 8, and the list is only up to 80, with Borbon still on the board. MaxRam was 30th. The Rangers had 5 prospects in the top 30. What does that mean? At the very least it means that the Rangers prospects have a lot of buzz in non-Ranger circles.
I propose a 5-year moratorium on trading any young Ranger pitchers who throw over 90 mph.
by Ajax68 on Dec 1, 2008 2:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
What does that mean?
It means that the voters at minorleagueball.com include a lot of Rangers fans very enthusiastic about their team’s prospects. 5 guys in the top 30, yeah right.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 1, 2008 9:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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