Evan Grant with some trade discussion updates
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 6, 2008 11:13 AM CST
70 comments
Evan Grant has a blog post up, updating the various trade possibilities out there for the Rangers...
He focuses on the BoSox, Marlins, and Tigers, and says the Tigers covet Gerald Laird, but would want more than Laird to give up Jeremy Bonderman (whom the Rangers have been after for some time). He suggests Nate Robertson as a possibility, but Robertson is terrible, so I am hopeful that doesn't happen.
Still, and Laird plus something else for Bonderman deal would be attractive, depending on what the something else is, and adding Bonderman might make the Rangers more willing to part with Vicente Padilla or Kevin Millwood.
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Bonderman:
Solid option. Think we’d have to part with top minor league talent + Laird to get him?
by BuckyB on Nov 6, 2008 11:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Given the state of their farm system
I’d have to think they’d be asking for a young pitcher in addition to Laird.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 6, 2008 11:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kiker??? any chance it's anybody other than Feliz or Holland???
???
"Calmer than you are... "
by Walter Sobchak on Nov 6, 2008 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No way
I’d add one of them two to Laird for Bonderman. Kiker, Poveda, someone like that maybe? I dont’ know, I’m not very good at prospect trade evals, I just know who I would not be willing to give up.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 6, 2008 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i wouldn't add Kiker
yet. let’s see how his numbers look after a one-on-one with Nolan and a move out of the Cal league. I, for one, think Kiker is in for a huge rebound season
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 6, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Me neither, really
the more I think about this the more I think I wouldn’t want Bonderman if it required more than Laird straight up or Laird plus a non-entity.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 6, 2008 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
Neither Felix nor Holland were first round draft picks, so it’s not impossible, per Hicks.
by Keynes on Nov 6, 2008 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
oh yeh it can't be Kiker...
Big Daddy did say he won’t be trading any first round picks. Just pull the switch Pee Wee he’ll never know or forget what he’s said.
Steal Home R.I.P. 9/10/08
by LAMuscleFag on Nov 6, 2008 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No chance the Rangers would deal either of those guys straight up for Bondo
With his injuries and $ he just doesn’t have a ton of value.
by groundingout on Nov 6, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
but does Laird have much more value?
I really dont think so. Laird will never be a better than average catcher and Bondo has at least some upside to return to better than average.
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Nov 6, 2008 4:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If the Rangers acquire Bonderman
I’d like to see them deal Padilla. Padilla’s value is decent right now, but he is just not very good. He has a 5.05 FIP and a 5.45 tRA. His high win total and reasonable ERA might make his perceived value higher than his actual value. I would definitely explore deals for him this off-season.
In a perfect world, I’d like to see the Rangers make a Laird + a few pieces for Bonderman, deal Padilla, and then try to get Sonnanstine for say Ramirez and Byrd. I don’t think you’d have to give up Feliz, Holland, Main, or Davis for those two and I think that could improve our rotation quite a bit. Millwood, Sonnanstine, Bonderman, McCarthy, and Harrison is a decent rotation.
by Stephen Rushin on Nov 6, 2008 11:33 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Padilla for Bonderman
Who says no?
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 6, 2008 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Detroit
If it’s a straight up deal.
Given their payroll, maybe Laird + Pads work for Bonderman + Robertson, if we take all of Nate’s deal.
by Keynes on Nov 6, 2008 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Payroll
Taking Bonderman for Padilla is itself huge payroll relief.
Throwing in Laird might be necessary to sweeten the deal, but none of this is a salary backbreaker for that org.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 6, 2008 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It cleans up the books in 2010
if they decline Pads’ option, but it’s pretty much a wash in terms of payroll for ’09.
by Keynes on Nov 6, 2008 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A wash for 2009
But I’m referring to the extra years of Bonderman’s contract. That wasn’t totally clear.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 6, 2008 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Padilla vs. Bonderman
There is .5m difference between the two contracts. Except for Padilla’s 2010 is a club option.
by BHill on Nov 6, 2008 11:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Grant's options
Looking at those options I would say that it might be best to deal Laird+ for Bonderman and hold onto the other 3 and drive up their value. Let Tea and Salty share the big league job with Max in AAA.
Fire Ron Washington
by pblack on Nov 6, 2008 11:38 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Laird+Arias for Bonderman+
What does Detroit have outside of Bonderman that is good for Texas and can realistically be gotten in a deal.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 6, 2008 11:50 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I may do that
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 6, 2008 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
which is the better trade?
Tea for Hughes? (meh)
Tea for Buchholz? (seems like boston would say ‘yay’ to this in a second)
Tea for Porcello? (eh?)
Tea for Nolasco? (nay)
Jindal '12
by Longhorn on Nov 6, 2008 11:54 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
yay
on first 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXWLfIgc0nA
by mchang4 on Nov 6, 2008 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You wouldn't do
Tea for Nolasco?
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 6, 2008 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is funny
I’m not sure the other team says yes to any of those without expanding the deal.
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by t ball on Nov 6, 2008 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right
I don’t think JD would let the FLA GM hang up the phone before that deal was completed. It wouldn’t get done fast enough from the Rangers perspective.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 6, 2008 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
2/4
Are no brainers. I’d probably do #3 as well.
by groundingout on Nov 6, 2008 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Longhorn
You really aren’t helping out the stigma that you overrate Longhorns with this post
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 6, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well
we will see soon enough, huh…
Jindal '12
by Longhorn on Nov 6, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Suffice it to say
that if Daniels pulls off any of those deals, even Josey Wails might have to admit he did good.
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by t ball on Nov 6, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Come on now
that’s crazy talk.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 6, 2008 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're right
he’d say that Ryan actually made the deal, or told Daniels to make it happen.
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by t ball on Nov 6, 2008 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The more I read
The better I feel about this situation. There are enough teams interested that you can really drive up the value on these guys. Honestly, I’m hoping we can talk Boston into doing some kind of Salty+ for Buch package. They resign Varitek on a one year deal and have him show Salty the ropes. I think this is going to be another situation where JD holds his ground and gets a good payoff for one or two of these catchers.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 6, 2008 12:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Why would Detroit be looking to trade Bonderman?
Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
by Brian Thomas on Nov 6, 2008 12:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Becaus he really isn't that good
He’s coming off of an injury, has declined after one really good season, and he will cost $25 million over the next 2 seasons.
by jcir454 on Nov 6, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He had gotten better every year until last year
by BuckyB on Nov 6, 2008 4:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He has lost a mph off his fastball each year, for the past three years.
by tyd3311 on Nov 6, 2008 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Laird
I don’t expect young pitching for him. I don’t mind trading him for an innings-eater (we need those) or for a young bat a few years out with some potential. Frankly, get anything useful for him and we improve the team.
As for the other catchers, I want a top quality young arm in return. Between Florida, Boston, and NY, I think that we should be able to swing one.
Instead of going into next season with 4 catchers we have 2 catchers, 1 young arm and 1 innings eater. Very nice.
by JBImaknee on Nov 6, 2008 12:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Laird
I would like to see him moved last. Assuming we get a starter for one of the other 3, I’d be willing to flip Laird for a legit bullpen arm.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 6, 2008 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
GM Meetings
Have been pretty boring so far.
by chrisR on Nov 6, 2008 12:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Meh to Bonderman
He’s a very solid pitcher and he’d better the Rangers no doubt, but he’s nothing exciting anymore. I’d rather focus on a higher ceiling guy and on including additional prospects to get them.
I find it interesting how fans get stuck on a player and it lasts for years.
by gr7070 on Nov 6, 2008 12:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather keep Laird
Bonderman really has never been that good and he costs $25 million over the next 2 seasons. It’s not like he’s an innings eater either…
by jcir454 on Nov 6, 2008 1:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
He wasn't this past year
But the previous 5 seasons he had averaged 184 innings per year. Oh and hes only gonna be 26 this upcoming year so he still has alot of years ahead of him potentially
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 6, 2008 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, he's still young...
but guaranteeing $25 million, plus trading Laird, for a pitcher who has had 1 really nice season 2 years ago and has since declined doesn’t really make sense to me….
How much more is a FA pitcher like Lowe or Sheets going to cost than Bonderman anyway?
by jcir454 on Nov 6, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably a couple mil more
But with Lowe you are hoping a guy in his mid-late 30s can pitch until hes almost 40 and with Sheets he has a bigger injury history than Bonderman and is 4 years older. I would gladly take 2 years of Bonderman for Laird. If he regains his stuff then we could try and resign him and he can anchor our staff for the next decade almost. if he doesn’t then if anything he allows us to not rush Holland and Feliz.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 6, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How much more is a FA pitcher like Lowe or Sheets going to cost than Bonderman anyway?
Far more. The market has changed since Bonderman signed that contract. Even just in terms of years Lowe will clear the term of Bonderman’s remaining years.
Bonderman is a medical knowledge opportunity. If JD thinks his guys know Bonderman is healthy, and Detroit isn’t as sure, and especially if Detroit wants to shed that contract…you make the deal.
It’s risky, but possibly less risky than moneywhipping Sheets.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 6, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is it money better invested though?
Sheets has unquestionably been a better pitcher over the last 3 season, and believe it or not Sheets and Bonderman have pitched about the same number of innings over that period.
My opinion it that they are both risky, and I wouldn’t trade for Bonderman or sign Sheets. If I had to choose though, depending on the contract length I’m pretty sure I’d rather sign Sheets.
by jcir454 on Nov 6, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm...from the Globe
Theo Epstein will depart here in about 90 minutes after the final meeting is over.
The Sox didn’t make a deal, and according to Epstein no deal is imminent. But the proverbial foundation for deals and for free-agent negotiation was established.
4. The Sox are after catchers. The two young Texas catchers — Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Taylor Teagarden — are high atop their list. Seattle’s Jeff Clement has been mentioned. The Sox are also looking at trade possibilities for veterans like Benji Molina and if in a bind could opt for a year or two of Pudge Rodriguez.
Jindal '12
by Longhorn on Nov 6, 2008 1:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Clement
I forgot about Clement, and I didn’t really know he was on the market. You would think the new GM would try to swap Johjima for another bad contract and get Clement behind the plate.
by Excel Hearts Choi on Nov 6, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Odd.
Clement, being a lefty, was absolutely horrible against right handed pitching (.209 /.288/ .329, 177 PA), but decent against left handed pitching (.289 /.319/ .467, 47 PA).
by tyd3311 on Nov 6, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Odder still is the fact that he racked up only 224 PA’s, but got his first PA on 30 April. Moreover, he played in 66 games. He just never really got much of a chance.
by Excel Hearts Choi on Nov 6, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well he did nothing
to earn more of a chance.
by tyd3311 on Nov 6, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely
i picked him up in my Fantasy League last year and watched him pretty close. He didn’t hit at all… and that was often as DH. And his defensive skills are worse than Max or Salty.
"They shouldn't throw at me. I'm the father of five or six kids."
-Tito Fuentes, after getting hit by a pitch.
by Haeger Champ on Nov 6, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I assume the ownership group would stop that from happening.
They’re the ones who pushed for the new deal for Kenji.
by venturafearsnolan on Nov 6, 2008 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sort of
nintendo gave kenji the contract but I think they want out of the baseball business. I don’t think they’d block a trade at this point
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 6, 2008 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Teagarden vs Salty
I am a little nervous that everyone is so sold on Teagarden being the better catcher. obviously there is a lot to love on the defensive side, but I am just not sold at all on his hitting ability. the idea of Daniels hemming and hawing over a Teagarden for Buchholz swap and trying to get Boston to accept Salty+ makes my head swim a little.
by clark on Nov 6, 2008 2:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Eh
I have a lot more confidence in Taylor’s bat coming around than Salty’s defense. Even if he struggles hitting a little, our lineup can make up for it. I expect him to call a much better game, and I think our pitching staff could use all the help they can get.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 6, 2008 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i suppose,
teagarden just looked SO major league ready, in all aspects of his game. I just wonder what else the Rangers would need to give up in addition to Salty to get a guy like Buchholz. I am okay with a Bowden/Bard return, but knowing Buccholz was out there is hard to deal with…
by clark on Nov 6, 2008 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
I’m willing to throw in something else of value to trade Salty and keep Taylor. I just hope it doesn’t have to be too significant.
I am the motherfucking shore patrol, motherfucker! I am the motherfucking shore patrol! Give this man a beer.
by TheBZA on Nov 6, 2008 2:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tea
i LOVE the .900 career minor league OPS and LOVE his on base skills.
even if he doesn’t ever hit consistently, i think his ability to get on base and catch up to a ball every now and again will be more than sufficient from the catchers spot in the order. the defensive argument is obvious, too… as you stated yourself
At this rate, he’ll be throwing 107-110 by 2012
by trident on Nov 6, 2008 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
MLBTR
Sox nation commenters seem to interchange Saltalamacchia and Tea, and a lot of them seem to have already conceded Buchholz. A lot of them seem pretty down on Buchholz actually. I wonder if it’s progressed to where JD’s waiting on the “+” in a Buchholz+ package to resolve.
I really foresee good things: two deals returning us one high-ceiling pitcher, and one package of MiL talent.
Here either Saltalamacchia or Tea’s the starter and Max is everyday in Oklahoma, with Pina in AA and Felix in CA. Telix makes his Stateside debut in 2009, as well.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 6, 2008 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
telix?
is that tomas telis?
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 6, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes!
My bad.
Z has me totally hyped up on him, not to mention the DSL numbers.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 6, 2008 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the national press
does refer to salty and teagarden interchangeably, I have noticed, and one article quoted a scout/official who was at the meetings as saying the general consensus is that Salty has the potential to be the best catcher of our four. If the Red Sox are drinking that coolaid, then perhaps a Salty for Buchholz deal is possible. We just need a few more pedestrian outings in the AFL to cement it!
by clark on Nov 6, 2008 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
catcher
depends on how much you value catcher defense (if at all). Wasn’t too long ago that people would quote Nichols Law when talking about catchers on here.
If defense isn’t important, most would rate Salty the highest. I guess in that case, you think that there is some minimum threshold for catcher defense that Max doesn’t possess, though I guess some might think that Salty has a higher ceiling than Max
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 6, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you know
I think I used Nichols Law incorrectly. The law itself doesn’t really stand for the proposition that catcher defense is irrelevant, just that it can’t be quantified.
Obviously, catchers do have some effect on the game with their defense. question is whether it is significant
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Nov 6, 2008 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was on your wave length
And thought that was actually where you were going. Certain aspects can sort of be quantified, like throwing out runners %, but even that depends on pitcher behavior.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Nov 7, 2008 1:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Salty for Buch is on the table...
He better not be waiting for a " + " Take that shizzle
by BuckyB on Nov 6, 2008 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
damn skippy bucky
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Nov 6, 2008 5:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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