Question
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 7, 2008 10:46 PM CST
185 comments
Does anyone else get a queasy feeling when someone says, "How about if we trade Chris Davis for..."?
He's the one guy for me right now that, for whatever reason, I really don't want to see dealt.
I'd rather hear talk of trading Josh Hamilton or Ian Kinsler. Or Neftali Feliz or Derek Holland. Or Engel Beltre or Elvis Andrus.
I think Davis is just my trade kryptonite right now. Anytime I see his name mentioned, I just lock up, and it doesn't matter what the rest of the comment is, my brain freezes and I can't process it. It is just an automatic "no, I don't want to trade Chris Davis."
I don't even think there's any particular logic behind it, really, for me.
For whatever reason, that's the one guy I don't want to see the Rangers trade. For whatever reason.
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I feel the same way.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Nov 7, 2008 10:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yes
My reason is that I’m afraid of trading him, probably moreso than anyone else. No telling what that guy becomes.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 7, 2008 10:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Or put another way
BiTA+, I guess
by Brett Perryman on Nov 7, 2008 10:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
The BiTA+ is higher for him than for, say, Beltre?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 7, 2008 10:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you kidding?
Way, way, way higher. Beltre is gifted, but I don’t think his BiTA is off the charts right now. I mean giving him up for crap, yeah, that would be dumb. But the idea is who scares you the most, because of how great they could become elsewhere, and Davis has it in spades.
Highest pre-arb (and non-Hamilton) BiTA factors:
1. Davis
2. Feliz
3. Martin Perez
4. Smoak
5. Holland
Max Ramirez also has a very high BiTA imo.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 7, 2008 10:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Main
right behind those? Personally I wouldn’t put Perez that high. Not because I don’t believe in his ceiling, but because he’s so much farther away that a lot can happen to him, so there’s a greater chance he doesn’t bite.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 8, 2008 1:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I’d put Main next. As much as some of our fan/experts/coaches think of him, I’m not sure that the ability to make you sick to your stomach is quite as high as it is with Holland or Perez. Of course I probably would have said that about Danks as well.
On Perez, something that I really like about him is that I don’t see a whole lot of downside, injuries aside. He just has too much game to not be pretty decent. So I think that counteracts his low level and young age.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 8, 2008 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A big hitting 1B
with limited defensive skills is really the guy you think might bite us in the ass more than any other minor leaguer?
Ouch.
Just due to his position, I hope we have another minor leaguer with more huge upside. Unless you think he is the 2nd coming of Albert Pujols, its just rare that a bigtime 1B has more value that an ace pitcher. If you can conceive of any of our pitchers being a front line ace, I’d have to think that losing them would be a bigger bite in the ass.
Now, none of this is a knock on Davis, it has more to do with the position Davis plays.
Nolan Ryan is the Greatest Pitcher ever, because Google says so.
"BTW I’m officially welching ab03. Yeah I planned too all along, but I figured I’d try to get off the hook with double or nothing first."- Sharky
by DJCahill on Nov 8, 2008 6:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is there some metric you're using?
>>>its just rare that a bigtime 1B has more value that an ace pitcher.<<<
Could you explain how you reached that conclusion? Were you using Value over replacement player (VORP)? If so, you’ll undoubtedly find the numbers that you’re looking for, because the only players above the average pitcher are obviously pitchers. Whereas, only some of the players above the average hitter play fist base.
If you used Win Shares, you’ll find that first base is where a relatively large number of the major contributors are to be found.
And before you go off on the VORP or Win Shares of Chris Davis (remember he’s the guy you said had “limited defensive skills,” but that none of your comments represented “a knock on Davis”), remember that he only played half the season in the Major Leagues, and was only 22 years old this year.
Can you believe it? They're bringing back the Five Dollar Footlong. That's right, the Legendary Depression-Era Porn Star is back!!!
by YourNameHere on Nov 8, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Other than Feliz/Holland
yeah he’s the one I most want to keep.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 7, 2008 10:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
You are not alone.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 7, 2008 10:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It'd trade him for Lincecum
and would feel pretty good about it.
Jindal '12
by Longhorn on Nov 7, 2008 10:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Or Pujols or Hanley
or maybe a precious few others.
He’s one of those guy where I’d only trade him for guys that wouldn’t be traded for him.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 7, 2008 11:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was saying
the exact same thing last week.
I can’t see anyone I’d trade CD for that isn’t untouchable themselves. These are your Dave Prices, Timmy Lincecums, maybe Sammy Kershaw. He’s not in the discussion with Matt Cains or Sonnastines or Nolascos.
by Keynes on Nov 8, 2008 7:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sammy Kershaw, eh?
Just say no to Scott Olsen.
by lonestarJon on Nov 8, 2008 8:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oops
That must be the tenth time I’ve said Sammy when I meant Clayton.
But, I think, in Steal Home’s world, Sammy Kershaw would be more valuable to the Rangers than CD.
by Keynes on Nov 8, 2008 9:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But Sammy Kershaw does have a CD
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Nov 8, 2008 9:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt
that technology has made its way to Steal Home, though.
by Keynes on Nov 8, 2008 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Davis
Right now I agree.
But after this next season Davis might be the easiest way for us to land that young top of the rotation pitcher that puts us over the top and into the WS discussion. With Smoak having a full season under his belt and everyone having a better idea of how and when he will arrive, Davis having his first full season to showcase himself, he will be probably the best nonpitching trade chip on the market. He could probably be flipped straight up for a top young pitcher which would allow us to use the rest of our farm to get the other pieces we need whether that means allowing guys to develop or trade for a veteran.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 7, 2008 11:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The Presence of Justin Smoak...
It seems the fact that the Rangers drafted the very promising Justin Smoak could lead a lot of people to undervalue Chris Davis’s potential. I’m thinking that Davis could be somebody who, if injuries don’t get in his way, might just wind up hitting 500 home runs in his career. If that’s reasonable, we’re talking about him joining a group with currently only 24 members in the history of the Major Leagues (although Gary Sheffield will likely join, as he’s sitting at 499 long balls). If I had had any one of those guys on my team during the early-to-mid part of his career, I think the only guys I might trade him for— to steal without explicit written consent from thedirkatron— are “guys that wouldn’t be traded for him.”
Can you believe it? They're bringing back the Five Dollar Footlong. That's right, the Legendary Depression-Era Porn Star is back!!!
by YourNameHere on Nov 7, 2008 11:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
speaking of Smoak
4-4 4 2B 1R,,, 0 Rbis today
by laxtonto on Nov 7, 2008 11:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
4 doubles?!?!
Hot damn!!!
Just say no to Scott Olsen.
by lonestarJon on Nov 7, 2008 11:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no
4 singles
Then HICKS need to get passed the bone head mistakes he has made in the past ( park- A-rod -) mainly and just get on with the ball club .
by shroomer on Nov 7, 2008 11:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or a single and a triple
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Nov 8, 2008 9:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No argument there
Which is why right now I wouldn’t want to trade him unless its for a sure thing.
But next winter the story may be different. Smoak has drawn comps to Chipper Jones and Teixeira. Teixeira is going to be a 500 homer guy by the time his career is over with. If Smoak has a season in the minors like we all expect and is ready to play in the bigs on Opening day 2010 then Davis becomes available IMO. Not just for anybody mind you. But for a top of the rotation young starter.
I don’t see the need to have two top young 1B when only one can play the field at a time when you could have 1 top 1B and a top pitcher instead.
Until Smoak is ready all this becomes moot. But when he is I think Davis is the guy to be traded. His agent doesn’t help things since of the two Smoak would be the more likely to resign before he hits FA simply based on their agents past. Unfortunately that has to come into the decision.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 7, 2008 11:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure I'd trade Chris Davis next winter either...
Back in 1989 the Rangers traded away Sammy Sosa, figuring that they didn’t need him because they had Juan Gonzalez and didn’t need two guys they saw as very similar players. Now I don’t think that the Rangers would walk into a Brock for Broglio situation intentionally, but it seems trading Chris Davis would set that up.
Ask yourself this, ‘Who should the Rangers have targeted when they traded Sammy Sosa?’ Now ask yourself, ‘In 1989, did anyone foresee that player(s) to have the career that they did?’ And if you still have a player in mind, then ask yourself ‘Would the team that had that player(s) in 1989 have traded him/them for Sammy Sosa?’
While an elite pitcher certainly sounds nice, if you think Davis is a good candidate to hit 500 home runs— which you could certainly disagree with— then I would probably want to go with something more along the lines of a Herschel Walker deal, because targeting one pitcher is just so likely to blow up in your face. But then, I don’t know if the Rangers would want to wait that long with guys like Ian Kinsler and Josh Hamilton in their primes. And with the depth the Rangers’ Farm System supposedly has, you could create a bit of a bottleneck problem.
Can you believe it? They're bringing back the Five Dollar Footlong. That's right, the Legendary Depression-Era Porn Star is back!!!
by YourNameHere on Nov 8, 2008 12:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Davis
You don’t trade him for A ball guys. You would trade him for a legit top of the rotation young starter or hold on to him.
I was 7 back in 89 so i don’t know the dynamics of that whole scenario but you don’t trade Davis to make room for Smoak. Just like we shouldn’t have traded AGon simply because we had Tex. We could have traded AGon but it should have been as the centerpiece of a deal not a throw in. Trade Davis if you are getting back someone who can help you win not only now while Kinsler and Hammy are in their primes but also down the road when Holland and Feliz are in their primes.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 8, 2008 12:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't imagine Davis traded
For anyone less than Nolasco or Cain. And even then I’d have a tough time stomaching that one.
Just say no to Scott Olsen.
by lonestarJon on Nov 7, 2008 11:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
not for
Nolasco straight up.
Bobby Jindal '12
by dstar442005 on Nov 7, 2008 11:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t trade him for Nolasco, and probably not Cain. Those guys are valuable for sure, but they’re not #1 starters, and they’re not just bonafide badasses. Why deal Davis for less?
by Brett Perryman on Nov 7, 2008 11:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, define #1 starter
I don’t think anyone is really going to trade you a true #1 (eg, Lincecum). And Davis is probably the type of player you’d have to give up if you want a bonafide badass like Nolasco.
Just say no to Scott Olsen.
by lonestarJon on Nov 7, 2008 11:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am already
totally worn out on this deluded idea that it’s even remotely realistic that you’re going to work out a deal for someone’s young, established high end starter. It’s not happening. Period.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 7, 2008 11:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Does Greinke fall on that list?
Buchholz?
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 7, 2008 11:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Rangers would be wise to overpay for Greinke now than later.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 7, 2008 11:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So you don't think a Greinke
deal is happening?
I don’t either..
I think getting Masterson or Bowden/Bard is more likely.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 7, 2008 11:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately, my podcast question was overlooked.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 7, 2008 11:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Greinke will be talked about at great lengths during the Winter Meetings.
I think Moore wants to start a bidding war.
Keith Law said it best… the line for Greinke will get very long very fast.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 7, 2008 11:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Greinke does
I don’t see any reason to believe that Moore is bluffing when he says he’s not trading Greinke.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 8, 2008 12:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What about
recent rumblings that say he might be made available if they can’t sign him to an extension?
Still, even if that’s true, the price is likely to be someone like Davis.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 8, 2008 1:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It just doesn't make sense to me
They are in basically the same situation that the Rangers are in. They are getting impatient with losing, but are intent on building primarily through their players and trades of those players. They don’t have an excess of pitching, and their payroll isn’t that far from the Rangers’, so why would it make sense for them to deal him away but for the Rangers to deal for him? If they can’t work out a deal with him as he approaches FA, why would the Rangers think that they could? And why would they want him for a short period of time at a huge price, as you mentioned?
I think we’re missing something in thinking that it makes sense for both teams.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 8, 2008 5:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
agree
It would be just unconscionable for Moore to trade away his best arm, an arm that is young enough to be excellent for several more years. On the other hand, I can’t imagine Daniels unleashing the rant that Moore did a while back, and unless Moore was just posturing, I wonder if it’s not an indication that he doesn’t have the patience that Daniels seems to have to carry the plan through even when it gets very difficult to do so. Plus, though they’re in the same boat as TX, they don’t have anywhere near as strong a system to build on.
Suffice it to say, I am not holding my breath on Greinke ever being available until and unless he reaches free agency (and a biding war ensues). But I could see him being KC’s Teixeira if they tank by July. He’d have a year and a half before FA, and would offer about as good a pitching addition as a contender could hope for.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 8, 2008 11:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Royals are NOT in the same situation.
They’re dead-last in a more competetive division with a weak farm system.
They are getting impatient with losing, but are intent on building primarily through their players and trades of those players.
I’m sure Moore is a smart guy. The Royals don’t stand a chance to win the Central in the next two years.
He might as well maximize a return on his most coveted asset before he loses it to free agency.
If Greinke isn’t dealt this off-season, then they would be wise to shop him at the trade deadline.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 9, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know you want Greinke badly
but they are quite a bit better off than you suggest. Their division is no more insurmountable than passing the Angels, and they have about as much of a chance to move forward this year as the Rangers, since they do have some pitching in place.
And their system is in position to help them. Moustakas and Hosmer are about as good of a pair of impact bats as any system in baseball has. Cortes is a really nice pitching prospect who is very close, and Rosa, Wood, Duffy, Mitchell give them better high end pitching depth than they’ve had, with Rosa and Wood possibly impacting them this next year. Their system certainly doesn’t figure to do for them what Texas’ does, but it certainly offers additional hope to supplement the nice players they have.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 9, 2008 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but most of their impact prospects are in the lower levels... still years away.
…And anyway… what good are prospects if they turn out to be the next Butler or Gordon?
What upsets me with the Rangers (and I guess this is the only similarity I can find with the Royals) is that… while our farm system does indeed look good, it’s still a farm system… it’s still a couple of seasons away. So, aside from the fact that I’ve been treated to losing baseball for the last decade, I can’t stand the reality of having to sit through a couple of more years like the past two… just to get to the finish line.
I’ve been patient. Isn’t there anything this team can do with this pitching staff… to at least give me some kind of glimmer of hope that the pitching will get better?
Because, I hate to say it… the Hurleys and Harrisons of this world aren’t going to cut it.
I need a shut-down artist.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 9, 2008 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i want me some
Ricky Nolasco. I think he can be had. He’s not completely established, but dang, look at last season.
Bobby Jindal '12
by dstar442005 on Nov 7, 2008 11:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
#1 Starter
Two-plus pitches
Average third pitch
Plus-plus command
Plus make-up
by jparks77 on Nov 8, 2008 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Holland?
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Nov 8, 2008 9:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's definitely possible
He’s obviously not there yet, but he does have the developing skill set for it.
by jparks77 on Nov 8, 2008 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
cool thanks
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Nov 8, 2008 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not grokking the Matt Cain love. Apparently you are. Care to make me a sales pitch?
Is it all scouting/stuff, or do you see something in his statistics that maybe I’m missing that gets you engorged?
For the record I’ve only seen him pitch once and don’t really remember much about it other than that I generally felt his raw stuff was pretty safely above average.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 7, 2008 11:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well I've seen him pitch against the Dodgers several times
And I really liked what I saw, stuff-wise.
I guess maybe I am buying into the scouting/hype machine a little here, and how highly he’s valued by SF, but I do like the fact that he’s a strikeout/flyball pitcher who doesn’t seem to give up that many longballs, and that’s the type of pitcher I’d like to have with our infield defense.
That said though I think Nolasco >> Cain IMO.
Just say no to Scott Olsen.
by lonestarJon on Nov 7, 2008 11:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the FB's would be a problem here.
SF’s park is weird. It suppresses homers quite a bit, though it’s not all that tough on hits in general (there are various theories on why that is).
His 4.45 tRA would probably play as a ~4.75-5.00 ERA here even with average defense due to his FB tenancies, imo.
He’s still young and he’s got good raw stuff so maybe he can take it up a notch and make me look stupid… I just wouldn’t bet Chris Davis on it happening.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 7, 2008 11:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I kind of feel the same
about Taylor Teagarden. I agree that we can’t trade Davis. The thing is with both of these guys is they are Texans and they grew up Rangers fans. I just hate trading guys who I feel like they want to be here. That is why it was so hard to see Chris Young go to San Diego. That guy wanted to be here.
I know this all might sound dumb but that’s just my two cents.
"We live, we die, and the wheels on the bus go round and round." - Tony Romo
by kentbenfer on Nov 7, 2008 11:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think feeling that way about Teagarden
is irrational. Though Adam didn’t say that he thought it was necessarily completely a rational feeling, so I guess it’s the same idea.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 7, 2008 11:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The hometown factor is stupid.
I don’t know how many Rays are actually from Tampa, but it’s probably zero.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 7, 2008 11:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Chris Young is so meh.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 7, 2008 11:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd happily take his mehness on our team right now.
Aikman and Bradshaw?
Please. They are in the same league as Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon as QBs who were taken to the SB by great Defenses and great Running Games.
-DJCahill
by SarasotaRanger on Nov 8, 2008 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Chris Young
Probably wouldn’t make the rotation out of spring training next year
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 8, 2008 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hate that argument
I don’t care if they grew up in Arlington, TX or Arlington, VA. If they are the better player and are better for the team thats all that matters to me. When people bitch about the CY trade and their first reason is he is a Dallas boy it makes my head spin.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 7, 2008 11:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Braves
have made a point to draft and sign guys from the Georgia area. They feel it gives them a real advantage when it comes to arbitration/free agency.
Of coure, they have a history of winning there. That is somewhat lacking around here.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 7, 2008 11:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When did they start that?
From what I remember the majority of their playoff teams from the 90s and early 2000s were not guys from the Atlanta area. I understand the logic behind it but unless the talent level is negligible I want the better player regardless of their hometown
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 7, 2008 11:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's a recent thing
Off the top of my head I know Francoeur is a GA guy. I’m struggling to come up with other names, but I swear they started doing that.
It might be the scotch talking though, who knows.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 7, 2008 11:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They did
But so far it hasn’t exactly led to alot. Their 90s and early 200 teams had alot of homegrown players just like the Yankees of the 90s. But those were the best players not simply from the same area as the major league team.
Like I said I understand the logic but I would be pissed if we overdrafted a guy simply due to him being from the North Texas area.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 7, 2008 11:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well they haven't "overdrafted"
and neither have we.
They have just made a point to go after the top local talent — much like a college football or bball program would do.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 7, 2008 11:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Like us with Beavan
Which is fine. But if we would have had the #10 pick and selected Beavan I would have been upset.
Difference between the college programs you reference is in that case the kid has the choice on where he plays. In the ML draft the kid goes wherever he is selected. So thats not exactly a good comp
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 7, 2008 11:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, that's not how I was comparing them
It was just in the sense that the player would be more likely to have a favorable opinion of the team — and if he had success — be more likely to want to resign.
It’s not necessarily about drafting or anything. It’s about retaining the talent once they’re established.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 7, 2008 11:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Winning and money should take care of that
Which is why I am a fan of the best player available approach. Hometown is nice but it isn’t a determining factor IMO
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 7, 2008 11:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Never said
it was rational. I recognize my feelings as anything but rational. Just my feelings, that’s all.
"We live, we die, and the wheels on the bus go round and round." - Tony Romo
by kentbenfer on Nov 8, 2008 9:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Devil's advocate
Davis for Buchholz and Bard – do you?
Davis for Lester – do you?
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 7, 2008 11:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yah I have to at least think long and hard about Lester.
A 24 year old with 4 years of pre-arb service time left coming off a 3.90 tRA season is mighty tempting.
No way I do the first one, but I’d prolly have to do the Lester one, though it’d be a bitter freaking pill to swallow and I’d kick and scream and punch three toddlers square in the clavicle while forcing myself to sign the paperwork.
Thank god Boston would never do that so I wouldn’t have to decide whether to endorse a deal like that.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 7, 2008 11:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Only 3 toddlers?
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Nov 7, 2008 11:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Anymore than that and you're a jerk, imo.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 7, 2008 11:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Got ya but
What about 2 toddlers and 5 kittens?
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Nov 8, 2008 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gotcha
And without specific reasoning, I’d agree. Not the same thing, but I’ve had an “instinct” that Nelson Cruz would deliver 4-5 years of something special, and literally flinched when he was waivered. Exhaled, of course, when he signed back on.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Nov 7, 2008 11:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I know
this was because of my Davis for Cain proposal.
but I agree, if we traded Beast, he would be BY FAR my favorite former Ranger that plays for another team ‘cause I know he’s a beast. such a beast… my favorite current Ranger
but we need a young ace, Matt Cain is that, I believe. Chris Davis is the means. We have offense to spare IMO. Ultimately, however, you’re right Adam, if I was GM I couldn’t stomach a CD trade.
Bobby Jindal '12
by dstar442005 on Nov 7, 2008 11:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
He's a local who can take the heat in stride. Love him.
The only downside is the Boras factor – you just hope he max’s out his value before we have to trade him.
Then HICKS need to get passed the bone head mistakes he has made in the past ( park- A-rod -) mainly and just get on with the ball club .
by shroomer on Nov 7, 2008 11:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Chris Davis is a power-hitter who is sub-par defensively and might be squeezed out of a position with this ballclub in the next couple of years.
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 7, 2008 11:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't really want Davis traded.
But I do want him offered, just in case someone feels like giving us their souls. I think Smoak makes that easier.
The guys I feel like that about are Kinsler, Holland and, to a lesser extent, Feliz. Kinz has become the first player I’ve really loved since A-Rod left, and I may love him more. Holland’s numbers just make my number-loving brain swoon. And Feliz is Feliz. Whenever anyone talks about including Holland in a trade it feels like I’ve been punched in the stomach. Even if it’s illogical, I immediately dismiss that trade in my head.
by philkid3 on Nov 7, 2008 11:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
question
Salty + Murphy/Byrd + Vallejo for Ricky Nolasco ????
Bobby Jindal '12
by dstar442005 on Nov 7, 2008 11:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
ok
Andrus, Teagarden, Murphy/Byrd, Borbon, Millwood/Padilla
Bobby Jindal '12
by dstar442005 on Nov 7, 2008 11:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
FLA wants to downsize payroll
They wouldn’t want Millwood or Padilla.
Just say no to Scott Olsen.
by lonestarJon on Nov 7, 2008 11:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ok
sub in Martin Perez
Bobby Jindal '12
by dstar442005 on Nov 7, 2008 11:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Then the Rangers wouldn't do it
Andrus/Tea/MurphByrd/Borbon/Perez
is WAY too much for Nolasco.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 7, 2008 11:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ok now i've given a too high and too low
what is a good medium?
Bobby Jindal '12
by dstar442005 on Nov 7, 2008 11:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus Marlins have Hanley Ramirez
they don’t need Elvis…
I don’t know what a good medium is, but I suspect you’d have to include Feliz/Holland.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 7, 2008 11:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Max/Feliz/Murphy
Maybe another C+/B- guy as a sweetener but that sounds about right.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 7, 2008 11:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think they might
turn it down if you did that. Well, tricer would probably call them ahead of time and give them the heads up.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 7, 2008 11:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No. Why sell low on the guy?
If he comes back this year and is injured and shitty again then you’ve lost out on cashing him in as a very minor throw-in in awesome bigger deal.
At that point why not just let him come back and pitch next year and see if maybe he can make it work?
The guy was once one of the top pitching prospects in all of baseball and we have a brand new pitching coach coming in to work with him.
The downside of trading him is so much greater than the upside at this point.
Selling low is never good, even if the odds are that the value might get even lower.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 7, 2008 11:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is there such a thing?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 7, 2008 11:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
They found out about this while he was forced by Nolan to throw BP wearing Face’s golden glove, while Jake Peavy argued with Evan Grant over defensive metrics while watching Randy Galloway on ESPN Classic.
by Telegraph on Nov 8, 2008 12:06 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
LOL, excellent.
rec’d.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 8, 2008 12:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
I was thinking more along the lines of a catcher, Murphy, their choice of Kiker/Beavan, and Mayberry as a sweetener. That’s still too low?
Just say no to Scott Olsen.
by lonestarJon on Nov 7, 2008 11:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so
and I would do it.
but maybe FLA wants more Major league help than that.
Bobby Jindal '12
by dstar442005 on Nov 7, 2008 11:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yah that's way too low.
The catcher is fine, but a 4th/5th OF a good but not great young pitching prospect who has yet to get out of A ball aren’t enough sweetener.
If they’re gonna trade a good young starter with a 4.43 k/bb ratio (Editor’s note: !!) and 4 years of pre-arb time left they’re gonna want something more than that.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 7, 2008 11:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nolasco
He’s Super 2 arb eligible in 2009 and arb eligible in 2010.
by LiamP on Nov 7, 2008 11:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't know that about him being a super-two.
But I used the wrong phrase there anyways. Meant to say 4 more years of team control.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 8, 2008 12:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, okay
Guess I’m way overestimating Beavan and Kiker’s value.
Catcher/Hurley/Beav/Mayberry?
Just say no to Scott Olsen.
by lonestarJon on Nov 8, 2008 12:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's still not enough, but who knows what they think.
You’re basically saying Max, two B- prospects and a crumb-bum COF prospect with major questions about virtually every facet of his game are worth a pitcher with 4 years of team control left who was very, very good last year. I just don’t see it. If you were gonna trade a guy like that you’d want at least one big name pitching prospect in return, no?
And I can’t imagine JMJ has much if any value to them, fwiw.
And I hate the idea of trading Hurley now. We’d be selling low and I hate hate hate selling low.
Of course all I know about Nolasco is the stats so maybe I’m overrating him. But that 4.43 k/bb ratio just gets me so horny. I can’t stop thinking about it. I’m going to dream about it tonight. And I’m not kidding.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 8, 2008 12:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who has more value at this point do you think, Hurley or Harrison?
I didn’t realize Hurley’s value was at an all-time low right now. I mean yeah, he got hurt but he was having some pretty decent Major League success before that…
And also, how exactly do you dream about K/BB ratios? Or do I not really want to know that…
Just say no to Scott Olsen.
by lonestarJon on Nov 8, 2008 12:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whenever I dream about a K/BB ratio as sexy as that one, it's usually wearing slinky little black dress.
We meet as strangers in a hotel bar. Eye contact is made. We start to chat. Awkward at first, but it gets better. It smiles at me and laughs at all my jokes. Drinks are order and reordered. A room key slides across the table. “Meet me there in ten minutes,” it whispers right in my ear, bourbon thick on its breath. Ten minutes and forty-seven seconds later there’s a nascent half-Dirkatron/half-K/BB ratio baby inside of it and I’m putting my pants back on talking about what an early morning I have tomorrow.
Or at least that’s how it usually goes.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 8, 2008 12:26 AM CST up reply actions 6 recs
Haha
Greatness.
Just say no to Scott Olsen.
by lonestarJon on Nov 8, 2008 12:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have dreamed about Holland's K/BB ratio on many a night myself.
by philkid3 on Nov 8, 2008 12:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh sweet jeebus don't get me started on the dreams I've had about Holland's K/BB ratio.
I’ve done horrible, horrible things to that saucy little harlot.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 8, 2008 12:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Uh Oh...
thedirkatron is getting excited thinking about Derek Holland’s K/BB ratio again. Somebody get a mop ASAP!
Can you believe it? They're bringing back the Five Dollar Footlong. That's right, the Legendary Depression-Era Porn Star is back!!!
by YourNameHere on Nov 8, 2008 1:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is there a seamstress available?
"He’s basically told himself unconsciously that he can’t be any good unless he catches 130 games a year. If he played with the baseball smarts of a guy like a David Eckstein, he’d maximize his talent and be an incredible player." - Andy Seiler, Texas Rangers Analyst
by Chase Irwin on Nov 8, 2008 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
re: Hurley or Harrison?
Probably Harrison, though personally I’d prefer to trade him since I feel like his perceived value around the league is probably higher relative to what I think his value is than Hurley’s is.
I still really like Hurley but I think a lot of people are down on him right now.
Full disclosure: I’m not really that high on Harrison at all.
I’m just talking about what I think his trade value is right now and I think it’s higher than Hurley’s.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 8, 2008 12:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I still put Hurley in front of Harrison as well
Because Matty’s inabilty to miss bats still concerns me. I think the best we can really hope for with him is a left-handed Andy Sonnastine, and he’s still got to miss a lot more bats and walk a lot fewer people to get there.
Just say no to Scott Olsen.
by lonestarJon on Nov 8, 2008 12:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Harrison's dirty little secret
The league hit .300 / .358 / .520 off him.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 8, 2008 8:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And his k/bb ratio was 1.35 after posting a 1.43 in AAA.
Those are butt terrible.
He needs to miss more bats and walk fewer dudes and I don’t know if he has the stuff to be able to do it in the long term. It’s as simple as that.
I’d take Hurley over him pretty easily.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 8, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No question.
"He’s basically told himself unconsciously that he can’t be any good unless he catches 130 games a year. If he played with the baseball smarts of a guy like a David Eckstein, he’d maximize his talent and be an incredible player." - Andy Seiler, Texas Rangers Analyst
by Chase Irwin on Nov 8, 2008 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you know that every sentence requires a verb?
“No question.” has no verb. Geez, you are already a pain without your bad writing.
by Save us on Nov 8, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you weren't
a sophomoric, pre-pubescent and disgustingly predictable ignoble, I would devote more time to shattering your bits.
Now I’ll just observe you looking up my userID, spamming my posts with idiocy (per your predictability) and consider it as free entertainment.
Thanks! You saved me!
"He’s basically told himself unconsciously that he can’t be any good unless he catches 130 games a year. If he played with the baseball smarts of a guy like a David Eckstein, he’d maximize his talent and be an incredible player." - Andy Seiler, Texas Rangers Analyst
by Chase Irwin on Nov 8, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is so funny. You love grammar, dont you?
by Save us on Nov 8, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't*
Contractions aren’t your strength. [That was a pun.]
I wouldn’t qualify it as love.
I take pride in reading and writing in my native language. It’s a very basic form of communication. I also enjoy studying other languages outside of my own.
If you call that love, save me.
"He’s basically told himself unconsciously that he can’t be any good unless he catches 130 games a year. If he played with the baseball smarts of a guy like a David Eckstein, he’d maximize his talent and be an incredible player." - Andy Seiler, Texas Rangers Analyst
by Chase Irwin on Nov 8, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
once again
I dont waste my time putting in apostrophes on a blog or make sure i didn’t make any typos, sorry big guy.
and i thought you were going to “observe” like you said in your homosexual rant
by Save us on Nov 8, 2008 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think everyone here would do that in about a tenth of a second.
Unfortunately, that’s also about how long it would take Florida to hang up the phone.
Just say no to Scott Olsen.
by lonestarJon on Nov 7, 2008 11:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Talking to a Mets fan friend about this now.
First trade offer she gave to me that I would take (and it wasn’t serious). . .
Reyes + Wright for Davis + Young
Young’s contract taken in full by New York, of course.
by philkid3 on Nov 7, 2008 11:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Dear god
Is it April yet
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 7, 2008 11:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Millwood, Opening Day...
Can’t wait…
GREINKE HO!!!!!
by oc on Nov 7, 2008 11:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
same with me
and the same with neftali feliz and dutch
by Save us on Nov 7, 2008 11:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
What happened to "trade all hitting for pitching"?
I thought we didn’t need hitters according to you.
Just say no to Scott Olsen.
by lonestarJon on Nov 7, 2008 11:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't feed the troll
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 7, 2008 11:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
trade "hitting" not trade "all hitting". i would say trade most.
theres nothing to lose
by Save us on Nov 7, 2008 11:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Off-Topic: MetsBlog is hilarious!
My friend constantly lets me know when MetsBlog is saying funny things. Today was especially great, because they were insisting the Rangers would do a Salty-for-Heilman trade.
Dumb Mets Fan
With the serious lack of new catching talent to go around the bigs Texas has to look at thier catching situation as franchise changing and not take something like Niese and Heilman in return. But then they are the Texas Rangers for a reason…
My Friend
Have you seen some of the deals they’ve made the last 2 years? They’ve been killing teams.
Dumb Mets Fan
nah fill me in…
I tend not to pay too much attention to the players teams like Pirates, Rangers, and Royals pick up as those clubs fill find a way to mess it up somehow.
by philkid3 on Nov 7, 2008 11:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Someone else suggested Heilman for Laird + Byrd.
by philkid3 on Nov 7, 2008 11:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I really like Heilman
Obviously his crumby year this season raised some doubts, but if my scouts and medical staff cleared him as good to go then I might think about that, though I’d probably counter with Laird/Murphy and still ask for a young big dreams rookie league kid as a sweetener.
He’s a good pitcher.
Or he was before last year.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 8, 2008 12:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think we're close enough to guaranteed competing to be getting pitchers who are about to be 30.
And posted tRA+s of 101 and 70 the last two years.
If no one, litterally no one, else wanted Laird and/or Byrd and that was the best we could get, sure, whatever.
by philkid3 on Nov 8, 2008 12:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Personally I think he's hurt.
I remembering reading somewhere that there were rumors he was trying to pitch through something and it got much worse as the season went along to the point where he just completely sucked, but I can’t find the link so I can’t present it as even a verified rumor.
His pre-post All-Star break splits show he just completely lost the plate (19 bb’s in 50 innings pre-break, 27 in 26 innings post-break) which screams injury to me.
So, like I said, if I was convinced by my shady little basebally minions he’s healthy (perhaps I should have made a bigger show of how big that IF was), I’d seriously consider doing that deal.
The age doesn’t bother me. Pitchers don’t tend to fall of the board in their early 30’s at quite the same rate hitters do. 30 isn’t optimal or anything, but it’s not enough to scare me off him if I believed in the arm.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 8, 2008 12:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In your scenario do you think that's the best offer we could get?
Because I just find that hard to believe.
by philkid3 on Nov 8, 2008 12:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We might well.
In fact we probably could.
I’m just saying that an injury-free fully healthy and mechanically sound Aaron Heilman is a good player, imo, and one I would definitely trade Laird + a small sweetener for. (Maybe not Byrd, but something.)
Solid reliever who could be stretched out into a starter if you wanted to take on something like that.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.
by thedirkatron on Nov 8, 2008 12:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also off topic
I’ve got someone on another message board telling me how much Javier Vazquez sucks.
by philkid3 on Nov 8, 2008 1:08 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well, on the surface he had a pretty pedestrian season
But his 3.74 FIP suggests he was a lot better than what his 4.67 ERA and 1.32 WHIP indicate. Kind of like Kevin Millwood, really.
Just say no to Scott Olsen.
by lonestarJon on Nov 8, 2008 1:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Even if you're so lazy you look at ERA and WHIP. . .
. . . that’s not “suck.”
And then if someone points out to you why he doesn’t suck, why on earth would you continue to insist he sucks? Why?!
by philkid3 on Nov 8, 2008 2:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Vazquez
I’ve always liked him, but he’s got a no-trade clause which blocks trades to all of the AL & NL West clubs, so he’s not coming here.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
by RCCook on Nov 8, 2008 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I never wanted him here.
Or at least never thought about it.
by philkid3 on Nov 8, 2008 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just curious
A hypothetical: would you trade Davis for one of those ridiculously high-ceiling pitching prospects lower in the minors such as a Rick Porcello in a straight-up one-for-one?
by jonthefon on Nov 8, 2008 3:20 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
No
If I am trading Chris Davis it is for a guy who has shown something at the ML level. A guy who was a stud in the minors and has had success in the majors. Porcello has a great upside and is a great prospect but I am not trading a proven Chris Davis for him straight up.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 8, 2008 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's lower on my list
My list of untradeables would probably be:
1. Feliz
2. Kinsler
3. Hamilton
4. Davis
5. Andrus
6. Holland or maybe Perez
Rangeressary
"the poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - G.K. Chesterton
by rangeressary on Nov 8, 2008 5:49 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Age 22 MLB seasons
Player A:
143 G (567 AB)
.300/.350/.522
29 HR
Player B:
80 G (295 AB)
.285/.331/.549
17 HR
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 8, 2008 8:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
No idea...
Their stats are virtually identical, so are they the same player?
Rangeressary
"the poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - G.K. Chesterton
by rangeressary on Nov 8, 2008 9:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing
Albert and CD.
"He’s basically told himself unconsciously that he can’t be any good unless he catches 130 games a year. If he played with the baseball smarts of a guy like a David Eckstein, he’d maximize his talent and be an incredible player." - Andy Seiler, Texas Rangers Analyst
by Chase Irwin on Nov 8, 2008 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Player A is Hank.
Player B is Davis.
When I think of Davis I think of Hank, can’t help it. Davis has a much higher MiL slug, but they’re corner infielders with pop who arrived around the same age.
Both viewed as untouchable gold. I dunno…
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 8, 2008 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully your curse
isn’t as powerful as miles’.
"He’s basically told himself unconsciously that he can’t be any good unless he catches 130 games a year. If he played with the baseball smarts of a guy like a David Eckstein, he’d maximize his talent and be an incredible player." - Andy Seiler, Texas Rangers Analyst
by Chase Irwin on Nov 8, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the thing
The comp you chose was basically an absolute worst case scenario. Blalock’s quick deterioration as a player isn’t what you would project for someone with the early numbers he put up.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 8, 2008 5:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would trade him, if
the Rangers got Lars rather than a pitcher from Boston in a catcher deal.
Go Rangers!
by rooster on Nov 8, 2008 8:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Davis is up there
but I’d probably have Kinsler higher imo on the untouchable list
In reference to how good the Steelers have been in their history: "No one is even close to them."- Steal Home
by hinduplaya on Nov 8, 2008 8:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Davis is on the untouchable list, no doubt
But I think Smoak’s presence has to rank him last on the list behind Hamilton, Kinsler, and Holland/Feliz/Main. After those guys, then I’d say Davis and then Andrus.
Just say no to Scott Olsen.
by lonestarJon on Nov 8, 2008 9:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
I would trade him. His trade value is at his peak right now – its hard to envision him doing anything to make it higher. The marginal cost of losing Davis and playing Salty or Blalock at first for the near future seems far lower than the marginal benefit of significantly upgrading our pitching. Obviously he’s your most expensive piece (I demand more for him than for Feliz or Holland), but if someone is willing to pay, then yeah… I do it.
by JBImaknee on Nov 8, 2008 10:04 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
for instance
if SF called offering Lincecum, is there any doubt JD takes it? No one is untouchable.
by JBImaknee on Nov 8, 2008 10:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree w/ JB
If you seriously want to upgrade the rotation, you are going to have to pay a serious price. These ideas of trading a catcher and a hodgepodge of expendable parts for a rotation upgrade just aren’t going to get it done.
I’m not advocating just moving him to move him, but I think that w/ Smoak on the way, and Max’s bat having similiar potential IMO, then I’d sure consider a guy like Nolasco for CD. If the idea is to contend in 2010, I think Nolasco-Smoak-Max will be more valuable than CD and the 2 other hitters.
IOW, planning for 2010, I’d like to keep 2 of CD-Max-Smoak, and flip the other one for a pitcher. CD is the one that will bring back an elite young pitcher, so I’m listening to deals for him.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 8, 2008 10:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"CD is the one that will bring back an elite young pitcher"
I agree that Max won’t bring back that type of pitcher. But, CD might be the one of the 3 RIGHT NOW that could bring back that young badass pitcher. This time next year Smoak could have similar value to CD.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 8, 2008 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Smoak
But between the two if they have the same value then I trade Davis. Unfortunately as long as he has Boras as his agent the likelihood of him staying around longer than 6 years is very very low
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 8, 2008 11:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would be surprised...
…if Max Ramirez were as good a hitter as Chris Davis.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 8, 2008 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
These ideas of trading a catcher and a hodgepodge of expendable parts for a rotation upgrade just aren’t going to get it done.
Tend to agree. We’re about to find out what value the catcher asset is.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 8, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No you don't
at least not if the pitching in the organization is in as fantastic shape as most say. You can wait for it to upgrade your rotation and keep Davis, et al.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 8, 2008 5:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what timeframe?
When do you think the pitching will reach a point that the staff could be considered championship caliber?
Follow up question, willl Hambone and Kinsler still be in the wheelhouse of their careers by the time the young pitchers in the system can revamp the rotation?
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 8, 2008 5:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think we know how long it will be. Sure, Kinsler and Hamilton should be well within their prime. The bigger question to me is whether Daniels & co can last long enough if they depend on the internal guys to do it.
But seriously, you seem to be suggesting that the only way to move forward for this organization is to use whatever assets it must to trade for pitching, because it can’t wait for it to develop. That seems to be to be asking for trouble, since it’s not like you can expect to get proper value when you deal anything else for top shelf established pitching. You’re going to get hammered in every deal. You’re swimming against a serious current.
I think that most of us agreed even dating back to last spring that the lineup looked like it was really coming together with the Hamilton acquisition, etc., and the problem was how long it would take for the pitching to catch up and whether it would. The comparison that I made over last winter or this spring was the first part of this decade as you were putting together a team with ARod, Teixeira, Blalock, Young, etc., but had to wait for the pitching (and wonder whether it would come through at all).
I’d give a lot for a good pitcher, but treating that as fully realistic and a fairly readily available option just isn’t being completely honest about the situation. You’re either going to have to take a risk or do a deal with a price so high that you’d never even consider it if you’re not desperate.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 8, 2008 5:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you seem to be suggesting that the only way to move forward for this organization is to use whatever assets it must to trade for pitching
I didn’t mean to sound like that was the only way to move forward, but I feel, as you seem to also, that if JD doesn’t do something to improve the rotation in the next couple of years that he won’t be around to see most of these lower level players reach the bigs. I think Davis would have huge value right now, and the organization is uniquely positioned in that he could be probably be moved without causing too much damage to the lineup, long term. If we could trade six years of Davis for 4 years of Nolasco, I’d do it – but probably you are right and that wouldn’t be something that Florida would be interested in.
I don't hate everything. In fact, I think LSB is just groovy.
by tricer on Nov 8, 2008 6:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
These ideas of trading a catcher and a hodgepodge of expendable parts for a rotation upgrade just aren’t going to get it done.
Neither is the notion that dealing Davis for an establsihed, young stud pitcher is remotely realistic. It happens very rarely and isn’t worth our time idly discussing.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 8, 2008 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want...
The Rangers to deal any of Feliz, Holland, Davis, Smoak, Main, Andrus, Hamilton, or Kinsler.
I realize there are certain players that I obviously would trade those guys for, but most of those players would never be traded by those teams.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 8, 2008 10:34 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hamilton For Me...
I think that given the fact that he’s 27, we sometimes forget that Hamilton just finished his first full season in the ML. Not to mention being out of baseball for an extended time.
But not just for his opn the field talent, Hamilton has a propensity to bring attention to the organization. He has a penchant for being in the spotlight, and that will bring national attention to a somewhat anonymous franchise.
But Davis runs a close (very, very close) 2nd
by Topgun22 on Nov 8, 2008 10:49 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
trade kryptonite
I’d put Davis after Hamilton, but obviously thinking about either one of them being dealt gives me cold sweats.
"You’re the only here who contributes schtick only." - brettgardner
by trza on Nov 8, 2008 12:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The hoarder says
Keep these:
- Holland
- Kinsler
- Feliz
- Hamilton
- Main
- Davis
- Perez
- Cruz
- Andrus
IOW, pretty much “run what you brung” for a while.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Nov 8, 2008 12:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
This is my attitude for now
I’m really tired of about 98% of this trade talk.Texas generally isn’t at the point where it needs to be dealing off guys for the purpose of evening out the depth chart. It would be a cardinal error, to me. Unless something just unfolds that completely makes sense, let’s roll with these guys and let some more play out before forcing it.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 8, 2008 5:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Concur
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 8, 2008 6:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'd like a team
that already looked competitive before I did a trade of a quantity of prospects for one big ticket guy.
Nolan Ryan is the Greatest Pitcher ever, because Google says so.
"BTW I’m officially welching ab03. Yeah I planned too all along, but I figured I’d try to get off the hook with double or nothing first."- Sharky
by DJCahill on Nov 9, 2008 7:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
went to bed last night
thinking the exact same thing. thinking how i like CD’s swing better than Teixeira’s. how his power is as effortless as Hamilton’s.
by SteveP on Nov 8, 2008 4:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
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