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Untouchable List

I was reading in Adam's most recent main post about not wanting to trade Chris Davis and many people keep coining the phrase "untouchable".  It got me to thinking, who in the Rangers' system IS untouchable?

First, let me qualify untouchable as I see it.  To me untouchable means that you will not move them unless you were offered an unrealistic deal.  For example, Davis is untouchable to me however if the Phillies came by and offered Hamels then of course Id do it but that is simply not realistic.  I know there is some gray area here but it is an interesting exercise.  Here are mine:

Davis - I just have this feeling that he will consistently become a 40 hr guy in the .280-.300 range.  With above average 1B defense and transitioning over to DH when Smoak arrives. 

Kinsler - I know we call Young the FOTF but Kinsler really is now IMO.  I think he finally got his national due this yr.  Basically, Kinlser > Pedroia. 

Hamilton - Remember this was only his second full year in the majors.  Should show even more improvement as he develops the stamina to last the whole season.  Perennial All-Star.  Lock him up now!!

Smoak - Yes I know he was just drafted and he may move from the untouchable list to the trade for value list however in the next 3 yrs we have to see what he can do.  I had a coach in college that said you could always define players with one word "If".  One thing that amazes me is that no one says if smoak makes it or if he turns into this.  Seemingly, everyone is convinced he will be a very quality major leaguer.  Plus D also helps.

Holland - I think with him, Feliz, and Main we have our new DVD however they could be better.  I mean just think about the DVD trio.  They are doing very well except Diamond who has been curtailed by injuries.  Of course Danks and Volquez are with other teams now, which sucks.  A lefty with his ability and seemingly terrific makeup is hard to find. 

Feliz - This guy could probably step in and be a serviceable short reliever.  I think his ceiling is off the charts however he does carry some risk.  Worst case scenario to me is that he tosses 101 out of the pen. 

Main - He probably wouldnt have been on this list last year but with the reports coming from Parks, Hindman, and Newberg I just have to put him on the list.   I just get this feeling he wont let himself not be great if that makes sense. 

Perez - I just dont think you trade a kid that has shown this much promise this early.  He is the riskiest addition to this list because of his age however I think, after reading some Arizona reports (thanks to the 3 I named above, again) I once again have this feeling that he intends to be great.  Terrific stuff and projectable to boot!!  And we have the luxury of moving him at a slower pace because of how logjammed the system is above him.

Two question marks:

Okay before I get burned at the stake for putting these guys on the list just let me say that these are two local favorites.  I coached against Beavan a few times in a select league and I played against Teagarden in HS several times before he went on to a little bit better baseball school than I did ha. 

Teagarden - With how hard this guy works, with how much pride he takes in being a true receiver (I think there is a difference between a catcher and receiver just like thrower and pitcher), and his ability to lead I think he is going to be special.  I think you are looking at a multiple TRUE gold glover who hits with power will work a walk and has the leadership abilities you want in a catcher.  I know that everyone is pining for a Teagarden for Buchholz deal however Im torn on that because of how valuable Teagarden is as a baseball player.

Beavan - First of all, I think his velocity returns.  Being a pitcher myself I can tell you that when you change your mechanics it takes a while for those muscles to get stronger and adjust to the new motion.  He will get it.  That being said he really grew up this yr as a young man.  Even with the diminished velocity he really pitched this year.  He also pitched much better the second half.  I know everyone talks about K/9 but the Rangers will regret it if we trade this kid. 

I know there will be a lot of arguments over Teagarden and Beavan that is why I am personally waffling on them as true untouchables.  If I were JD and Teagarden for Buchholz was on the table, I dont know what I would do.  Now there may be a few guys that yall personally think dont belong or do belong but this is my current list of untouchables.  Lastly, I have been a Rangers fan for life and the system has never been this good, NEVER. 

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Question regarding Bucholz

Lets say that the Rangers end up trading Teagarden for Bucholz, where would Bucholz start next year?? OKC or could he start in the rotation?

In reference to how good the Steelers have been in their history: "No one is even close to them."- Steal Home

by hinduplaya on Nov 8, 2008 11:03 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I would

think they would start him in the rotation.

by Michael Cave on Nov 8, 2008 11:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would agree with that

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Nov 8, 2008 11:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Holland – I think with him, Feliz, and Main we have our new DVD however they could be better.

I’m a fan of FHM.

by Keynes on Nov 8, 2008 11:04 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

I'm

more of a Maxim fan myself.

because he hasn't even reached his peak yet, up until this point, he just did it on talent. - Ron Washington on Josh Hamilton

by Lonerangers on Nov 8, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Good news is

We have that covered too.

Maximilliano Ramirez

by Keynes on Nov 8, 2008 11:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Regarding Beavan

I wouldn’t think he was ‘untouchable’ per se, but I’d think they’d have to overvalue him quite a bit right now, to the point where there’s probably not a realistic trade out there he’d be involved in. Given the success he had this year without high-end velocity, I’m thinking if he does find that extra few mph again and retain the approach and control he showed this year, we’d have something pretty special. And I’d be loath to give that up without something equally special coming back.

by Keynes on Nov 8, 2008 11:12 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Yes, perhaps

this fall is Main’s and this spring is going to be Beavan’s.

by Michael Cave on Nov 8, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Beavan...

1st Round Pitcher… You heard Hicks

by Topgun22 on Nov 8, 2008 11:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

of course hes untouchable, hes a first round pick

/tom hicks

by knockoutking on Nov 8, 2008 11:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Davis

Again, like in the other thread, I think he is “untouchable” this year but once Smoak is ready he becomes a huge trade chip. Not that I want to get rid of him but if Smoak is what people think he is and Davis still has Boras as his agent the sooner you trade him the better package you receive in return.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 8, 2008 11:23 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Davis v. Smoak...

If they both become what we think they will, who’s the better player?

Smoak higher avg, higher OBP, more 2Bs, GG caliber def.
Davis more HRs and RBI, solid avg., solid OBP. above avg. def

I’m salivating at having them both hitting in the middle of the order for years to come rotating between 1b and DH with Smoak in the field about 75% of the time.

by Topgun22 on Nov 8, 2008 11:38 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

with Davis' numbers

 in the minors, and this only being his rookie year and half a year at that, what makes you think his average and OBP will defer to Smoak’s in his limited time?

"Calmer than you are... "

by Walter Sobchak on Nov 8, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Smoak...

I haven’t done extensive research, but everything I’ve heard is that Smoak draws a ton of walks while also hitting for avg. That coupled with Davis’ lack of walks and propensity to K (especially against ML quality pitching) lead me to that conclusion. Just a guess really though.

by Topgun22 on Nov 8, 2008 11:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Davis/Smoak

Is a good problem to have. I don’t think any of us would complain if we had the Adrian Gonzalez/Tex problem before the trade. Great players will find their way into the lineup.

"Congrats Rangers fans, you just found your replacement for Mark Teixeira. Just a crazy, crazy steal." -Goldstein

by Plum on Nov 8, 2008 11:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Davis

Why would you have the GG cailber defense guy as the DH 25% of the time?

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 8, 2008 11:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Pseudo Day Off...

It’s important over 162 games, and I’d rather have 30 games or so where we could get Smoak a “day off” without losing his bat from the lineup

by Topgun22 on Nov 8, 2008 12:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

1B

I don’t see the need to do that with a 1B. OF is a little different situation. How many days did Tex get at DH?

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 8, 2008 12:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure

many would argue Andrus, some would throw out Neil Ramirez…I’d personally include Borbon because of the somewhat decent chance that he becomes a complete stud of a defensive centerfielder that puts pressure on the opposing defense with his speed on the basepaths, and we haven’t had a two-way threat in those regards in CF in a long time…at least if you’re of the belief that Hamilton is a below-average defensive CF. I would also include Max Ramirez personally. I’d love to jettison Laird for a good starter and Salty for a very good pitching prospect, and roll with Teagarden as the starting C for years to come, with Max DHing and backing him up.

"Calmer than you are... "

by Walter Sobchak on Nov 8, 2008 11:39 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

You make really good pts

I dont know why I didnt include Andrus. Probably his situation is so dependant upon what the Rangers do with MY. I actually like your C idea. That is my dream scenario as well.

by Michael Cave on Nov 8, 2008 11:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I want

at some point very soon, this to be our lineup.
CF-Borbon
2B-Kinsler
RF-Hamilton
DH-Davis
1B-Smoak
3B-(trade acquisition)
LF-Murphy
C-Teagarden
SS-Andrus

The rotation to look like:
Bucholz (Brought in by a trade for a package of Salty, prospect)
Holland
Main
Perez
Harrison
Feliz- CLOSER

by texaschief on Nov 8, 2008 12:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No Hurley?

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Nov 8, 2008 12:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Random Question...

At the time of the draft, I remember a lot of people being upset that we took Hurley instead of Huston Street. In retrospect would you make the same decision to draft Hurley, or go with Street?

by Topgun22 on Nov 8, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Always go with a starter over a reliver

every time

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Nov 8, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+0.9

99.99% of the time

by knockoutking on Nov 8, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sad...no +1 lol

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Nov 8, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

close enough lol

that said i really liked josh fields this year, and while i wouldnt have taken him at 11…i might have later on

but very rarely would i do something like that

by knockoutking on Nov 8, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But...

I am talking about taking their production into account over the last few years. Given the opportunity now, you wouldn’t take Brien Taylor over Trevor Hoffman just because one is a starter and one is a reliever.

by Topgun22 on Nov 8, 2008 2:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not now but

At the time you do. IMO

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Nov 8, 2008 2:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

taylor

best HS pitcher ever?

normal people : chuck norris :: getting flustered in big games : greg davis

by knockoutking on Nov 8, 2008 4:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't know good question

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Nov 8, 2008 4:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would have to

say so. David Clyde maybe?

by Michael Cave on Nov 8, 2008 4:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

OVER-RATED

clap-clap-clapclapclap

hurley just isnt that good.

by knockoutking on Nov 8, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Neither is Matt Harrison

I think myself Hurley has a a much better chance of contributing in the long term, even if it’s in the bullpen, than Harrison does.

A Lonestar in California

Just say no to Scott Olsen.

by lonestarJon on Nov 8, 2008 11:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Be waiting a while

for Perez.

Also, what corner of the subcontinenet do you send Mikey Young to?

Also also, I will weep if Feliz sticks a closer. That means something goes horribly wrong between now and then.

Also also also, don’t we have like, 14 starting pitchers in the minors with way higher ceilings than Harrison?

by Keynes on Nov 8, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Harrison... meh. Murphy... super king kong mega, mega MEH.

Shirley in a dream world where all our prospects work out we can do better than those two.

And where’d FFace go?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Rule 5? No…talk to the hand.

by thedirkatron on Nov 8, 2008 12:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

By the time

Perez hits, I’d think Engel would be ringing the doorbell. Politely, but firmly.

Actually, I’m kinda assuming they both end the year in Bak together.

by Keynes on Nov 8, 2008 12:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i forgot

about Beltre. but by the time he and Perez are here, say 2011, Young and his contract might be movable.

I honestly don’t care what happens with the “face.” I’ve always felt that you play the best player. If Andrus forces Young off the SS position, then hopefully the franchise is pushing for playoff spots and is generating enough revenue to eat his contract and either trade him away or let him be the next Frank Catt.

I just hate the thinking that just because you made the mistake of giving someone a long-term contract doesn’t mean you should make another mistake and let someone who’s better than him sit or get traded. I’m not saying Andrus is better than Young right now, but at some point, his athleticism will overtake Young’s.

ALSO, the guy is 32 RIGHT NOW. It’s not out of the question to either ask Young to move over to 3rd or flat out sit in favor of another younger/better player.

by texaschief on Nov 8, 2008 1:32 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Young is not going to sit

By the end of his contract Young will be 37 years old. You aren’t going to move that old of a player to another team. Also he will have been with this franchise for almost 15 years. I doubt they would let him go.

Young is going to move to 3B probably next winter and allow Andrus to come up and take over S. His glove and arm should be fine for 3B for the remainder of his contract. We don’t have any real stud 3B prospects coming up so even if we drafted one next summer it would be 3-4 years before they arrived which would be right around the end of Youngs contract.

Young is our Jeter. The offense may diminish, the defense isn’t great, but hes our veteran leader. Kinsler and Hammy may become the face of the franchise but Young is and will be the elder statesman. As long as he isn’t an absolute horrible player in the next few years he will be an everyday player for the next few years. People just need to realize that and get over it.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 8, 2008 1:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My untouchables

Dont’ touch

My junk, unless you’re my wife.
My liquor, unless I’m pouring.
My daughter, period.
My CDs and books.
My dinner.

All else is negotiable.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 8, 2008 2:25 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Darn, you beat me to it...

Yeah, all prepubescents are definitely on that “Untouchable list.” Even Europe’s cracking down on it these days. Edited by SportsBlog Nation Administrator Too bad. I guess you can’t live in the past.

Can you believe it? They're bringing back the Five Dollar Footlong. That's right, the Legendary Depression-Era Porn Star is back!!!

by YourNameHere on Nov 8, 2008 4:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What happened here?

Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. But in the mean time, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-8 baby!

by sprite on Nov 8, 2008 5:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Big Brother doesn’t like jailbait jokes?

by Keynes on Nov 8, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's what it looks like

Although that and much worse has been talked about before… Odd.

Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. But in the mean time, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-8 baby!

by sprite on Nov 8, 2008 5:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No...

I did that on my own as a joke. I even messed up: it’s “SportsBlogs Nation.”

Can you believe it? They're bringing back the Five Dollar Footlong. That's right, the Legendary Depression-Era Porn Star is back!!!

by YourNameHere on Nov 8, 2008 5:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I like your list...

I would add Andrus to it as well.

I’m ok with dealing TT because of the depth at catcher right now, but it better be for a stud pitcher. Beavan I’m just not sure about yet.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Nov 8, 2008 2:36 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Andrus

I just have this feeling that MY may not move anytime soon. With Beavan, Ill be honest it is more a feeling but everything hinges on whether is velocity comes back.

by Michael Cave on Nov 8, 2008 4:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Untouchables = Pitching

Nobody, aside from pitching, on your list would be “untouchable”. For the right package, I’d trade any one of them.

by Austin Ranger on Nov 9, 2008 8:01 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Please read the first paragraph of my post

The “right” package you are thinking about it probably unrealistic. Like the rays need hitters, well of course Id trade Davis for anyone of their 3 big starters (and also Price).

2010 Rangers = 2008 Rays?

by booyahcaveman on Nov 9, 2008 9:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I went back and read it...fair enough...but,

…you should be more realistic in definition of “untouchable”. Obviously, no team is going to give up aces in their starting rotation…so, I wasn’t even going that far…I assume they’re not…

I’d be fine with trading for prospects if they packaged the right trade. I think you’d agree that the Rangers have plenty of offense and, although some will criticize as an obvious statement, they need pitching. I know their farm system has some promise, but they’ve been dreadful in trading away pitching prospects. Just think if we still had Volquez and Danks, not to mention Young. We’d be talking about how the Rangers did in the post season this year…even without Hamilton…

by Austin Ranger on Nov 9, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Umm...

“Just think if we still had Volquez and Danks, not to mention Young. We’d be talking about how the Rangers did in the post season this year…even without Hamilton…”

No we wouldn’t.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Nov 9, 2008 4:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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