Driveline Mechanic's Take on Robbie Ross

by Requiem on Dec 12, 2008 3:08 AM CST Comment 25 comments

http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/2008/12/12/690384/pitching-mechanics-robert

Summary:

Overall, I really like his mechanics! I think his shoulder will hold up fairly well, and the hard pronated release of his fastball will do a lot to protect his elbow (and give him life on his fastball, which he is known for). We can't know for sure how he throws his slider (without high speed video), but it's probably a supinated release and thus dangerous on his arm. In general, I prefer supinated curves to sliders due to the pressure a slider puts on the elbow, but I realize that sliders are called strikes more frequently and are easier to learn to throw.

Don't know enough to know if he knows what he's talking about, but it adds more information.

I do believe him about the scap-loading, and just seeing a pitcher scap load makes my shoulders hurt.

Take a look and see what else he says about Ross.

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is his fb 93+? and does he have a third pitch?

In general I don’t get really excited about a prospect until they have proven they can command three solid pitches; only pitcher on the farm (that i know of) that fits the bill is Michael Main; rest are still ‘developing’ their third pitch (and in the case of Nefty, his second pitch).

by Aneel on Dec 12, 2008 3:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Third pitch.

Robert Ross is 19 years old. It’s safe to say that if he can command one pitch well enough that he’s doing just fine. To expect high school pitchers to be able to command three pitches for strikes is really asking a lot.

Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting

by Kyle Boddy on Dec 12, 2008 3:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But asking

for 2 solid pitchers is more than reasonable…

I don’t give a shit if he can throw 93, I can go into South America and pull out a guy that can throw 100. But if that all you’ve got, you won’t get far…

"You can be a leader or follower.... Or you can be elite...." - Me

by miles on Dec 12, 2008 4:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I would love to see you go to South America and pull out a guy who can throw 100.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 12, 2008 7:56 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

what about going to india and pulling out a guy who throws 93?

lol

i think the pirates signed those 2 guys from india lol

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 12, 2008 8:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

eh hem

have you forgotten about his connection with MrSantos and Juan Dominguez? Surely Juan throws triple digits by now.

by bushe on Dec 12, 2008 9:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

heh

Did you forget what his degree is?

He’s got an inside track on all this shit between Santos / Dominguez, Cincinnatti sources, HP background and sports management intuition.

This is an exciting time in my life.

The LSB CPP's are in full bloom.

by Chase Irwin on Dec 12, 2008 5:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

changing speeds

is what its all about.

by Aneel on Dec 12, 2008 4:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

see bradford, chad

from john dewans stat of the week:

In the book, Oakland Athletics general manager Billy Beane considered Bradford a bargain, good value for his pay. Since that season, he has played for four more teams, each year pitching well. Yet, as you can see from the chart below, he has the slowest fastball in Major League Baseball. Can he be effective? Turns out, he can be very effective. The most remarkable part of his career are the 17 consecutive scoreless appearances in postseason play coming into 2008. During this past postseason, pitching for Tampa Bay, we saw his streak interrupted, but he continued to dominate, and has only allowed one run in 23 1/3 career playoff innings for a carer playoff 0.39 ERA.
How slow did he pitch in the regular season last year?

Slowest 2008 Fastballs
Pitcher Average
Fastball Speed
Chad Bradford, Orioles-Rays 79.6
Jamie Moyer, Phillies 81.2
Tom Glavine, Braves 82.1
Livan Hernandez, Twins-Rockies83.7
Greg Maddux, Padres-Dodgers 83.7
Doug Davis, Diamondbacks 84.6
Barry Zito, Giants84.9
Cla Meredith, Padres 85.1
R.A. Dickey, Mariners 85.1
Kenny Rogers, Tigers85.2

Notice a few other famous names on this list? Glavine and Maddux are probably destined for baseball’s Hall of Fame.
Can you be effective with a slow fastball? Definitely.

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 12, 2008 8:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

last part should have been in quotes as well

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 12, 2008 8:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agree 100%

Fastball speed is a great thing to have, but give me a well placed 86 mph pitch over a randomly thrown 96 mph pitch any day. Greg Maddux was the best pitcher I’ve ever seen and probably ever will, not because his stuff was amazing, but because he knew how to use what he had.

Of course, the problem with the rangers of the past 10 years is that they’ve had a lot of guys who throw 89, 90 but can’t place the ball to save their lives. So it is walk, walk, homerun with these pitchers. I don’t know if this is a development thing (they throw hard when young, so the org doesn’t worry about developing their finesse), or if they just suck completely.

by JBImaknee on Dec 12, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Trevor Hoffman

made a likely HOF living by not even throwing a fastball. From what I know, he only threw a changeup. How you can only throw a changeup I’ll never really understand, but ranging from 75 to 88 was enough for him.

by JBImaknee on Dec 12, 2008 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Uhh

He throws a fastball its just not very fast. His changeup is about 10 MPH slower.

This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC

by nikpin on Dec 12, 2008 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but it sure is a lot less likely

Without at least an upper-80s fastball, the great majority of pitchers don’t even last long enough to have their names remembered. Never mind that most of those guys threw at least in the upper 80s / lower 90s for a good portion of their career, and their performance dropped compared to earlier in their career when they lost the FB velocity.

by Telegraph on Dec 12, 2008 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

This is an exciting time in my life.

The LSB CPP's are in full bloom.

by Chase Irwin on Dec 12, 2008 5:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Tim Wakefield?

Where is he?

Well, I will appreciate for you to keep my zingers out of your mouth!

by BoSox415 on Dec 13, 2008 7:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This is really good to hear

After MJH panned his mechanics. Takes a load off my mind (although I still like Joe Wieland better).

"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."

by lonestarJon on Dec 12, 2008 3:40 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

lol

I see what you did there.

by JimBonnick84 on Dec 12, 2008 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Question to Kyle or NoName

when you are talking about pronated release, it is the way the arm is turned, right? are you just saying you want a pronated release whenever he’s throwing changeups and breaking pitches?

also it’s a bit confusing because sometimes you talk about pronated release and sometimes you talk about pronating through the follow through (with roger clemens’ slider) and then you also mentioned how homer bailey supinates on his cut fastball.

So what exactly is your forearm supposed to be doing throughout a pitch?

Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade

by ab03 on Dec 12, 2008 12:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Forearm.

You can think of pronating your forearm by turning your thumb down to the floor. Supination is turning your thumb up to the sky. Pitchers naturally pronate on their fastballs and changeups, but not typically through release.

To achieve solid pronation through release, you need to supinate the forearm early so you can pronate through the release point. Does this make sense?

Additionally, you want to inwardly rotate the arm as you deliver the ball. Think about turning your pitching arm elbow up to the sky while your thumb simultaneously turns down to the floor.

Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting

by Kyle Boddy on Dec 12, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

wait

are pronating through release and inwardly rotating the arm 2 different things?

Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade

by ab03 on Dec 12, 2008 2:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the explanation

That makes a lot of sense to me, actually.

This is an exciting time in my life.

The LSB CPP's are in full bloom.

by Chase Irwin on Dec 12, 2008 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sort of.

You need one to have the other, but most people don’t talk about the inward rotation of the arm.

Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting

by Kyle Boddy on Dec 12, 2008 4:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

who teaches this arm action?

it’s simply not natural. such an easy fix as well. just unnecesary strain to the shoulder.

nice quick mechanics. lose the leg lift and get stronger in the hips, which is likely the reason his back leg doesn’t come all the way through. his follow through kind of just stops, which means to me he can develop more drive off the mound.

Mass X Acceleration = Force

by SteveP on Dec 12, 2008 5:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

What arm action?

Do you mean the forced scapular loading arm action? If so, Paul Nyman and his followers teach it. And yes, there is unnecessary strain on the shoulder.

A short leg lift and being quick to the plate is important, I agree. Dynamic strength in the hips and core is really important.

Just like your signature says, F=MA.

Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting

by Kyle Boddy on Dec 13, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs