Rosenthal on Sheffield and Texas
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 19, 2008 10:41 AM CST
128 comments
Ken Rosenthal has a new notes column up, which includes this item:
Gary Sheffield to the Rangers makes baseball sense — the Rangers are too left-handed and the Tigers too right-handed. Problem is, the Rangers are short on money, making it particularly unwise for them to invest in a 40-year designated hitter who will earn $14 million next season. If the Tigers are motivated to move Sheffield — as it appears they are — they will need to include a significant amount of money ...
Sheffield's EQAs the past three seasons have been .280, .296, and (last year) .259. Suffice it to say that a .259 EQA is lousy production from a DH, particularly one making $14 million.
I guess there's the hope that you could get a dead cat bounce from Sheffield...but Bill James' projections have Sheffield at a 785 OPS next year, and I have a hard time seeing that that's going to get you anywhere.
I have to guess that the Sheffield interest involves some moving parts...for example, if Blalock gets moved elsewhere, you could turn around and offer Detroit some random grade C prospect for Sheffield, with them picking up a chunk of his salary. Sheffield probably then slots into the cleanup spot, where Ron Washington would clearly prefer to have both a righty bat (since Josh Hamilton will be hitting 3rd) and someone with more skins on the wall than Nelson Cruz.
You'd probably be looking at something like this:
1. Ian Kinsler -- 2B
2. Michael Young -- SS
3. Josh Hamilton -- CF
4. Gary Sheffield -- DH
5. David Murphy -- LF
6. Nelson Cruz -- RF
7. Chris Davis -- 1B
8. Salty/Teagarden -- C
9. Travis Metcalf -- 3B
And yes, you could conceivably flip-flop Davis and Murphy, but I'm guessing Davis will be hitting farther down the lineup until he "proves" he can hit well enough to hit higher up.
Still...bleah. I'm underwhelmed by that lineup.
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major meh
no thanks.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 19, 2008 10:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Pretty hard for me to get on board with
Sheffield at anything more than a few bucks…or Metcalf in a freaking starting lineup.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 19, 2008 10:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I rather have Max Ramirez at DH full time than Sheffield. At least there is upside there.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sheffield
if the rangers are that desperate for a RH bat i’m sure sammy sosa is still hoppy cited to play
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Dec 19, 2008 10:47 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
well played sir
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
by ab03 on Dec 19, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No
Negative
Nyet
absolutely not
When pigs fly
Never
Not in a million years
by BEW on Dec 19, 2008 11:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
What he said * 1000
No Sheff for me – back of the line….
by bking on Dec 19, 2008 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ditto
I see absolutely no reason whatsoever to bring Sheffield here. None.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 19, 2008 11:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
most of us saw no real reason to bring in sosa yet they still did it.
and that’s what worries me.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Dec 19, 2008 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yet
They made the right decisions with Shelton, Broussard and Mench. I think Sosa was a selling point for a team that wasn’t going anywhere rather than belief by the front office that he could contribute.
by FuturePants on Dec 19, 2008 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
too many LH bats
1 – Kinsler RH (2B)
2 – Young – RH (SS)
3 – Hamilton -LH (LF)
4 – Cruz – RH (RF)
5 – Blalock LH (DH)
6 – Byrd RH (CF)
7 – Davis LH (1B)
8 – Tea/Salty RH/S ©
9 – Metcalf RH (3B)
4th OF – Murphy LH
Utility – Arias RH
"That one is headed for the moon!" - All Star Derby
by m_nieft on Dec 19, 2008 11:06 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
This is my contention
both in the immediate and in the future. Yes, at points in 2008 they were too left-handed, and their best two hitters (or two of their best three at least), Davis and Hamilton, are both left-handed. But that’s pretty much the full degree to which they look slanted that way. You can fill the other two OF spots and the DH spot with RHB any time you want to, with Cruz, Byrd and Boggs. And the entire IF aside from Davis is RH.
When Smoak is ready, though, I esepcially don’t see this as an issue. The only question will be how big Murphy’s and Borbon’s roles are and whether you will want to platoon them. But you have good looking candidates to do that in Boggs and Cruz, plus Golson.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 19, 2008 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So you're saying trading for a right-handed bat right now would be a futile enterprise.
by oc on Dec 19, 2008 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think depends on which right-handed bat
but I think Z is saying it’s not that big of an issue.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 19, 2008 11:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
especially one as old and useless as Sheffield. The pitching equivalent would be getting Kenny Rogers back here just because he’s left handed.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 19, 2008 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
I think that trading for a RHB (particularly a fairly mediocre one) for the purpose of getting a RHB is needless, especially because this team is not going to win the division next year, and especially when it has a minor league journeyman projected as its starting 3B.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 19, 2008 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think we are better off with Chris Davis at 3B?
I wouldn’t mind having him there myself.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This year, probably so
It’s not what I’d prefer, but it is really, really hard for me to imagine that Travis Metcalf will be worth more runs than what you give up by moving Davis over there and whoever would take Metcalf’s spot in the lineup as the DH (with Blalock sliding in at 1B).
The thing that troubles me about the Metcalf notion, and in fairness, it’s only suggested by Adam and the beat writers as far as I’m aware, not thrown out by Daniels or anything that they expect Metcalf to be their primary 3B, is that it shows zero continuity of planning when you’re talking about going after Randy Johnson (or obviously Garry Sheffield if they are) at the same time. You’re so worried about 2009 that you want a one year solution 40-something year old fronting your rotation, but at the same time you have so little regard for your 3B spot that you’re willing to go in with Metcalf there?
I suppose that in their minds Andrus might be closer than he is in mine, but to me that’s an even more critical mistake.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 19, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Duran will be givin' a shot to win the third base job in spring training.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 19, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would say the same thing about him
…though I do like him better.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 19, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You like Duran or Metcalf better?
Duran looks like a Michael Young starter kit to me.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 19, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Metcalf displayed some power in a small sample last season
Was that a fluke or what? His career minor league OPS is .756 (Duran’s is .797 and he was younger while doing it). I am with you on this one too, I would go with Duran. Is Metcalf’s defense really that good anyway?
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
duran looks
like a bag of nothing. i prefer metcalf because at least he provides some power.
by clark on Dec 20, 2008 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Would you be satisfied with Joe Crede at 3B for one year?
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d be more satisfied with him than Metcalf, though I suspect that there is a good option out there if they’re willing to address the issue head on.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 19, 2008 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know there are plenty available
Atkins, Escobar, Lowell (if BOS signs Tex), Kouzmanoff, Beltre, Encarnacion, Mora, Huff, and Cantu through trade. Wigginton, Crede, and Uribe through free agency. Do you like any of these players? And would the Cubs be willing to trade Vitters? Would KC trade Gordon?
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose
the thought is that Metcalf will compensate for the .700-.750 OPS he’ll inevitably post with good enough defense to make him a fringe-passable solution at third base. Not saying I agree with that notion, but it’s plausible enough I guess.
by Joey Matschulat on Dec 19, 2008 11:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also the whole lefty/right thing
seems to be a non issue for Davis who was much better against lefties than righties last year and Hamilton who was still doing great against lefties. Its not like we are dealing with players like Cat who are unable to hit lefties at all.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 19, 2008 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Murphy and Blalock are those Cat type of lefties
But at least we have Boggs and Ramirez to platoon with them.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
2 players isn't that bad
Murphy is young and can get better, but does still have Boggs around to help. And Blalock can at least sit on the bench on some days, let Hamilton DH, and then put Boggs or Byrd into his spot. Every lineup will have a couple of weak spots vs lefties and our’s really isn’t worse than any other one in baseball with the additional benefit of being amazing against righties.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 19, 2008 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree with you
Every team has to deal with this problem.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hamilton doesn't like to DH
He has said as much. I think he gets no more than 10 days off all season barring injury
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 2:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
Then if you really care about whether Hamilton enjoys DHing or not, you DH Young and stick Duran or someone in at SS. You’ll still end up with Blalock not playing much against lefty starters and getting an additional righty bat in the lineup.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 19, 2008 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Its the whole picture though
If you do like you say then we would be taking Cruz (RF) and Hank out of the lineup and substituting Murphy (LF for Byrd who moves to CF who takes over for hammy to move to RF) and Duran its a net loss. It may be righty lefty but its far from a good offensive team at that point.
Plus the fact that MY never DHs I don’t think thats gonna start happening this year all of a sudden.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
Maybe my post was confusing, but that’s not what I had in mind. First, Young and Hamilton would each DH like 10 games of the year. It will keep both of them better rested for the full season and I doubt either would have much of a problem with it.
When you have Hamilton DH, you can have Byrd, Cruz, and Boggs in the OF. When you have Young DH, you can have Duran play SS with Boggs subbing for Murphy in the OF. Duran is a good player and people forget that he was a very promising prospect not too long ago. He isn’t completely useless with the bat.
Also, I don’t think that you need to be messing with the lineup this much. I don’t think Blalock and Murphy are that clueless against lefties where you have to worry so much about it. I’m just responding to the thought that we desperately need to add some righty bats onto this team.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 19, 2008 7:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Young and Hamilton
Hamilton has said he doesn’t like DHing. He doesn’t feel in the flow of the game. Basically when he plays its in the field. And Micheal Young doesn’t want to DH. He plays everyday also. Kinsler is the same way.
Boggs is probably going to be down in AAA for the most part which is why you would have to sub Murphy out there for Cruz since hammy would be moving to right and taking Cruz out of the lineup. There are alot of moving pieces in the lineup unfortunately. As i’ve said unless Cruz can play LF, which we have heard no reports of them even thinking about, then when Hammy needs to “rest” Cruz will either have to be the DH or will sit that day. Either way you wouldn’t be losing a LH bat because you would be subbing Murphy in.
I don’t think we need to add RH bats either but there are enough LH bats that either someone will be hitting way lower than they should, which will cause an uproar, or opposing managers will be able to go to a lefty in the bullpen to get through the heart of our order alot easier, whcih will cause an uproar.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 7:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They might not prefer it
But 10 games throughout the season isn’t that big of a deal and I doubt either of them would throw a hissy fit if Wash asked them to DH once every couple of weeks or so.
If the Rangers wanted Boggs in AAA to get everyday playing time, he would have been there last year. The Rangers last year showed that they aren’t going to be adding old, past their prime players to act as role players on the team or injury fill-ins. They have said that they want to fill all those roles from within. So if Boggs isn’t going to be a 5th OF on the team, who exactly do you get? Duran isn’t going to be doing that again. Golson sure as hell isn’t ready. Neither is Borbon. There aren’t any other OF on the 40 man roster.
Cruz will never DH. Unless we have Byrd, Borbon, and Boggs in the OF, the defense suffers by not having Cruz there.
I’m not worried about the heart of the order thing. Hamilton and Davis both can more than just handle their own against lefty pitchers. Let opposing managers try bringing in a LOOGY only to waste a RP, possibly take out a good pitcher out too early, and still see the ball get smashed out of the park.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 19, 2008 7:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Couple things
They won’t be happy DHing. Micheal Young is a very prideful baseball player. He played last year through multiple injuries and only played three games at DH. In his career he has played in 22 games at DH. So yeah 10 times in a season would be way out of the ordinary and frankly won’t happen. Same with Josh. It may be the wise thing to do but it won’t happen.
We probably won’t carry 5 OF this year like last year. I predict, barring trades of course, our positional players on the active roster to be TT, Salty, Davis, Kinsler, MY, Metcalf, Duran, Hamilton, Byrd, Cruz, Murphy, Cat, Hank. Thats 13 right there. You got 4 OFs and Cat who could play in a pinch. Boggs will most likely start and spend a majority of time in OKC next year which is probably what he should do unless you are simply settling on him as a 4th OFer and nothing more.
Of those 13, 5 are pure LH hitters. Im just trying to be realistic here.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 8:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lineup
Against RHP, we will probably have four lefties (Blalock, Hamilton, Davis, and Murphy) in the starting lineup. In order to separate them, we will have no choice but to put them in the 2-4-6-8 holes. It is safe to assume that in this case, Hamilton would be the one in the 4 hole. Then what comes after that is up to Ron Washington. I am guessing that in this situation, Blalock would be at 2, Davis at 6, and Murphy at 8.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 7:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
3,5,7,9
Hammy-3
Hank-5
Davis-7
Murphy-9
Thats if you are dead set on alternating. Plus I don’t think Murph is a guaranteed starter against all RHP. With Cruz and Byrd out there Murphy looks to see his playing time decrease. Either that or Nelson Cruz will which will cause an uproar if that happens. Thats why I advocate trading Cruz and letting Boggs and Murphy play a strict platoon as LF. Murphy against RH and Boggs against LH
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 8:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so then Metcalf hits 6th and a catcher 8th? or vice versa?
I know the preferred way is Hamilton at 3, Blalock at 5, etc., but if you do it that way, you will then have one right-handed guy, either Metcalf or Teagarden, hitting too high at 6, don’t you think?
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 9:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you could live with that
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 10:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Having many LH bats is not an issue
Our ballpark is suited for them. Also, most starting pitchers in the league are right-handed. As long as we have some right-handed hitters (Ramirez, Boggs) to pinch hit late in games then we are fine.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem
Is if they are all bunched in the middle of your order, the part of the order you expect to drive in runs in the clutch, then if it gets to be a close game a manager can bring in a lefty reliever and neutralize the best, or most dangerous, part of your lineup.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley or Burrell at DH and hitting cleanup
would definitely help in a situation like that, but damn there is not enough money.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Max Ramirez?
As much as trading Max Ram as a C for P is on everyone’s wish list, the Rangers may need to keep him at DH/3rdC/Spell1B, as he is the only legit RH power hitting prospect in the system.
by mattrpav on Dec 19, 2008 11:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I would much rather see
Ramirez be the right handed DH than Sheffield.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 19, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1mm
"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."
by lonestarJon on Dec 19, 2008 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would much rather see
Max in AAA catching full time before being relegated to DH in the bigs.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
Even if it means Sheffield in 2009.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Dec 19, 2008 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I read somewhere (maybe Baseball America)
that Max’s arm is rated only 45 out of 80. Do you really think he has a future at that position? Also, if he is the DH, he will also get his chance to catch occasionally (assuming Salty is traded to the Red Sox or Marlins) which would probably be 30-40 games (could be more given Teagarden’s injury history).
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 3:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats assuming Washington is comfortable using his backup catcher as his fulltime DH
Which I don’t think anyone can say for certain. Not many teams, if any, do that. It scares the hell out of a manager that something may happen to his catcher and he may lose his DH if only for half a game or something. I have no problem if Max end up as a full time DH but I would rather it be after he has exhausted any chance at sticking at catcher. Whether that means its here with the Rangers or with another team. A average defensive catcher who can mash (comparable to his position) has alot more value than a fulltime DH who hits good.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Max will be a DH
book it. He will never be a fulltime catcher for a ML team.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 19, 2008 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Aahh.....
Adam actually put Murphy in his projected lineup instead of Byrd. I guess Adam is holding back his hate of Murphy during the holidays……..so kind. ;-)
We already had a hot head, race card pulling fool with Bradley on this team last year, we don’t need another one with Sheffield this year………..so, NO THANKS!!!!
t ball on MY - "hate the contract, don't hate the player"
by bspate on Dec 19, 2008 11:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Bradley was fine...
and his production was even better.
Carl Everett is probably the comp you want, but he kept a lid on it while here also.
However, I agree.. No Sheffield.
by cmkelly29 on Dec 19, 2008 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Stupid
After the Rangers foolishly ran off a perfectly good DH who kills lefties (Sammy Sosa), they would want to go out and get another one who is probably not as good a hitter, also can’t field, but costs 3 or 4 times as much? Dumb.
by JBImaknee on Dec 19, 2008 11:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
That lineup isn't meh
I have no intrest in Sheff, but with or without him the Rangers are gonna score runs, that won’t be the problem in 2009.
by groundingout on Dec 19, 2008 11:30 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Predictions (on a pretty sturdy limb)
Marlon Byrd gets dealt. One of Millwood or Padilla gets dealt. Sheets gets signed. And one reliever from the bargain bin gets signed.
No big trade involving a good young pitcher on the cusp of major league success (thank God). And no one ends up giving up what the Rangers want for their catchers.
by clark on Dec 19, 2008 12:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
is that what you feel is more likely
or what you would personally prefer. I would rather hold onto Cruz because he gives us a slugging RH bat that is controllable for a few years. Value wise, I think Byrd has almost as much value as Cruz, despite only being under control for one more year, because of his ability to play CF and the potential for a draft pick when he departs. A number of teams are currently looking for a CF, and once a few more FA OFs sign, I think his name will start popping up quite a bit.
by clark on Dec 19, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A number of teams are currently looking for a CF…
Yes, the Rangers are one of them.
by oc on Dec 19, 2008 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
because the rangers are much more likely to trade the guy they have for 5 years (or whatever)
instead of the guy they have for 1.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Dec 19, 2008 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Rangers have control of Cruz for five years?
by oc on Dec 19, 2008 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
He has 1+ years of service time
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
An attractive selling point in trade talks.
Sorry, I have Cruz pegged to wear down after the amount of baseball he’s played in the last two years.
There’s no denying he’s made improvements, but, I’d rather sell high on him now, live with a just-as-sound defensive alignment of Boggs/Murphy – Byrd – Hamilton until Borbon arrives.
If the argument is that we need his bat, I point to Ramirez and Smoak in 2010.
by oc on Dec 19, 2008 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nelson Cruz
has neither lost a tremendous amount of weight or anything else. His numbers have always been AAA sick, if he hasn’t worn down from 4 years of Awesomeness at AAA, what has changed that he will now?
by FirebatM3 on Dec 19, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
4 years of AAA Awesomeness
+
2 years of Winter League
=
by oc on Dec 19, 2008 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
you’re going to be eating your words on Cruz this year.
At least I hope you will be. I’m sure you would be more than happy to do so, right?
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Dec 19, 2008 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Look at it from a long-term point of view
We are not contending in 2009. Why trade an OF who is 28 and under control until the end of the 2013 season instead of one who is 31 and only under control for 2009? I know we went through this argument before, but I just want a more detailed explanation from you.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Long term view
Josh Hamilton is our RF of the future. Julio Borbon is our CF of the future. By future I mean 2010 and beyond. We have David Murphy, Brandon Boggs, and Greg Golson who are all perfectly suited for LF and all under team control for at least 4 more years. Unless Nelson Cruz is working out in LF and shows he can handle it I don’t think he has a place here long term. Now having said that you have to look at when you can get the most for him. Is it now after a huge AAA season and then performed very well in the majors for a month or so and has slugged good in winter leagues. Or do you roll the dice hoping he keeps that up next year and he doesn’t regress back into the nelson Cruz we have seen before who can’t sustain anything for a full season.
From a simple standpoint of who do we have control of longer then yes you would trade Byrd. But big picture it may be best to trade Cruz now when his value is at its highest and keep Byrd who perfectly fills a need this year and then leaves and you get draft picks for him which go to help you out further down the road.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for answering for him
Your answer made a lot of sense. What type of player do you think we can get for Cruz in a trade?
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
Depends on how other teams view him. If they are as skeptical as I am then probably not alot and it would be best to hold onto him a little while and maybe move him in season next year. But if they view him as a guy who has found “it” then who knows. Probably nothing to write home about or anyone that will impact us significantly right away. But possibly a low level high ceiling arm or maybe a mid level relief prospect. Maybe a package similar to what Laird got us with a little more upside. I really don’t know thats just a guess.
The best thing would be add him in a package deal but again i don’t know what you would package him with or what to expect in return
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would be unhappy
If Cruz were traded simply to clear OF crowding. If he brings real value in return, not so bad. But you don’t ship off the guy who will probably lead the team in SLG and OPS. He’s the one guy you might think replaces Bradley’s numbers.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Dec 19, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're obviously very confident in Cruz
Im not. I agree he shouldn’t be shipped off due to overcrowding. I don’t think that would be the case. As I said above he doesn’t fit into our long term plans in RF and I haven’t heard any rumblings about him playing LF so to me that tells me he isn’t in our long term plans. I would rather trade him now when hes performed well rather than take a chance that he regresses back to the old Nelson Cruz, which I think is a very good chance he does.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd hate to see Cruz get traded
That 1.124 OPS at AAA last year should translate to at least an .800 OPS in the big leagues. Not only he did well there, he impressed me in the majors in September and now in winter ball. Given his salary, service time, age, arm, power potential, and defense, I would prefer to hold on to him to see what we have. If he can play RF then he can play LF (since LF is supposed to be easier). I don’t want this to turn into Hafner part two (sorry I had to break my promise of not mentioning old trades, but in this case its relevant).
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If we get better value than what we got for hafner would that be ok?
Also LF is harder than RF in TBiA. Im not trying to just dump Cruz off for whatever we can get but of the OFs we have I think he has the most trade value in relation to his future with us
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 4:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you're right
it depends mostly on what we would get in return. If we can’t get something valuable in a trade then I wouldn’t mind having Cruz around. Notice Marlon Byrd’s value is at an all-time high as well, so we should attempt to trade him as well. The Yankees might be willing to trade Kennedy for Byrd+.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Although Byrd fits a pretty big role for us this year. Who else would play CF whenever Hammy plays RF, which is probably gonna be about 1/3 of the time? Its almost like Byrd is the bridge to Borbon. Thats why I would rather wait until the deadline to look into moving Byrd unless absolutely blown away. Kennedy doesn’t blow me away.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boston is looking for a right-handed OF
especially one that can play CF, to give Ellsbury or Drew a rest against some tough lefties. I know Byrd is more than a fourth OF so maybe trading him to Boston might not make sense, but if adding him to a Salty deal can get us Buchholz, would you be willing to do it?
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
Although I don’t think the Rangers would
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 5:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boggs played CF in AA
Murphy was a CF in the minors as well. Even Cruz can fill in, though I admit he is not even close to Byrd in that aspect. I agree with you however, I would keep Byrd until the deadline if no one is willing to give us anything worth it.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 5:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know they can play there
I don’t know if I would trust them out there as much as they are going to be needed. The fact that Boggs was primarily a CF in the minors and didn’t play out there last year makes me believe the Rangers feel he isn’t built for CF in the majors. He looks too stocky to me. He doesn’t seem to have that burst you typically see in CFs. Im sure he or Murph could play out there in a pinch but considering about 1/3 of our games will need a CF other than Hamilton I don’t think they would be good options.
Waiting until midseason would allow Borbon to develop in OKC. Theres an outside chance he could be ready by August. And if not then by that time you are only looking at a couple dozen more games needing a CFer whcih those two could handle.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 5:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I forgot to mention Golson
He is super fast, but I am not sure if he can play CF well enough given that he was at LF last year at AA. I guess its not all about speed because if it was, Golson would be better than Byrd defensively. Byrd is stocky himself (is he really 245 lbs as it says on mlb.com?) but his flyball reading skills make up for his average to slightly above average speed.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 5:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but I don't consider him ML ready
Maybe by deadline time.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 6:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan Tucker :)
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Dec 19, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldnt mind having Tucker as a setup man
His fastball is above average. He was filthy at AA last year, giving up only 64 hits and 2 HR in 91 innings in 12 starts and 13 relief appearances.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want Sheff
But if this deal happened, why not just Sheff for Hank?
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Dec 19, 2008 12:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
because you don't really get anything in return for Hank.
Hank to a team that wants him and needs him and has pitching makes a LOT more sense.
I am on board with acquiring Sheffield, but only because in my mind he can still rake at times, and I think losing Bradley is a huge blow to our offense. I realize Sheff isn’t the player he once was. He was pretty piss poor to start out both 2007 and 2008, and failed to finish out 2008 on the same tear that he went on to close out 2007. I kept looking for that tear. Maybe it’s because he never healed last year? Maybe he’s just old and done. If there’s any chance he can get back to a Sheffield Lite type level of production, we could certainly use him for half a year then flip him, or a full year while the kids load up (Smoak) and Davis gains experience learning how to shoulder the load offensively. I mean, if we want to win games next year, we’re going to have to count on our offense just as much as we did this past year, and Sheff won’t be here in 2010 blocking anybody…so why not, IF they eat a considerable amount of his contract, we get rid of Cat and Hank, and we get a decent prospect back? All said, I doubt all three of those happen. So no Sheff.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 19, 2008 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hank is younger, cheaper, and better than Sheffield
If only he can stay healthy, he is a productive clutch hitter that loves hitting in this ballpark. Hank showed you what he can do in September. Hopefully that carries over to 2009. His OPS over the last two years are .901 and .846 (although in 208 and 258 AB respectively) so lets not get rid of him like that.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so you're underwhelmed
by a slightly modified, if not improved, lineup that by far scored the most runs in the Majors last year? our lineup is nothing to be underwhelmed by… most teams would chop off their collective foreskins for our lineup.
Bobby Jindal '12
by dstar442005 on Dec 19, 2008 12:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Why no Marlon Byrd?
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 19, 2008 12:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
And some people think Sheffield was incredibly unlucky last year
.237 BAbip
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 19, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sheffield's LD rate dropped to what looks like a career low this year
(Fangraphs only goes back to 2002 on those). His K rate also spike to it’s highest since ‘95, his ISO was the lowest it’s been since 1991, and his IFFB% spiked a bit as well.
Now maybe I’m interpreting those two things completely wrong (always a possibility with my somewhat marginal sabermetric knowledge) but it looks to me like Sheffield just wasn’t making very good contact with the ball last year period.
"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."
by lonestarJon on Dec 19, 2008 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sheffield had an xBABIP of
.252 last year according to THT’s new xBABIP. So while you could expect him to be better this year, you’re still talking about a pretty poor season.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 19, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who would he replace in that hypothetical lineup?
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 19, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
Why Murphy over Byrd?
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 19, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just curious for your reasons
Don’t necessarily disagree.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 19, 2008 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Davis has a big spring training
I would bet he opens in the 5 hole. Much like Hammy last year.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 19, 2008 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not if Blalock is still here
Not that he wouldn’t deserve it but I think as long as a veteran lefty is here Davis will hit no higher than 6th and most likely 7th. I don’t think theres any way that they hit hank 6th or 7th next year if they are trying to trade him. They would hit him 5th to maximize his potential value
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think next year we will be trying to win ballgames first and foremost
Not so much worry about the trade value of a particular player. If Hank is healthy, Hank will have trade value no matter where he hits in the lineup.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 19, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
Moving Davis up and Hank down does not significantly change our W/L record. Hank is not viewed as a part of the future here anymore and I believe we will view him as we did Milton Bradley, Eddie Guardado, Kenny Lofton, and Eric Gagne. If we are in a race we can keep him but if we aren’t or are close and there is some young guy ready to step up into that spot that is in our future plans then we can trade him for something. Davis hitting 6th or 7th this year is not going to stunt his development. Hank hitting 6th or 7th could very easily hurt his trade value. There may not be as many run producing opportunities if davis is getting all the RBIs. We all know RBIs is a useless stat but to a team at deadline time looking for a run producer they do hold a little weight.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think teams rely on their big league scouts more than RBI totals
when considering whether to trade for a player.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 19, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Im sure they do
But if they are looking for a guy to come in the middle of their lineup they aren’t going to go for a leadoff hitter and they aren’t going to go for a bottom of the order guy. Stick Hank in the 5 hole if only for a couple months and see what the trade market is liike. If you can’t get anything for him then switch he and Davis in July. I highly doubt waiting a couple months is going to be the difference between us making the playoffs and not.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Truthfully
I want Blalock in the 2 hole.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 19, 2008 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Does that mean Michael Young in the 3 hole?
He is definitely a clutch hitter but would you put him there after having a .418 and .402 SLG% the last two seasons?
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hank in the 5 hole
is fine with me also. He has the clutch hitting ability to do it. Take a look at his career OPS in these situations: Bases empty .778, Runners on .830, RISP .844, RISP w/2outs .876, Bases Loaded .995. Do you see the trend?
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gary Sheffield
Is one of the worst guys we could possibly acquire right now, because #1, he’s old, broken down, expensive and isn’t worth giving up anything to accquire, and #2, as long as he’s healthy Ron Washington would be guaranteed to latch onto him and give him 500+ AB’s, completely kissing off any chance of getting MaxRam or or either of the other catchers any AB’s via the DH slot.
Seriously, acquiring Sheffield would be some horrible, horrible subtraction by addition. Worse than Sosa. And knowing that, you have to think it’s probably going to wind up happening too.
"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."
by lonestarJon on Dec 19, 2008 12:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Big difference between Sheff and Sosa
$$$$$
It’s not going to happen unless Det pays the whole salary.
If they wont’ expand the budget to get someone like Sheets (without dumping Millwood/Padilla/Blalock) then it’s not going to happen for Shef.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 19, 2008 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
DH
Thats probably because the Rangers want to keep Max at catcher at least for another year before writing him off and they don’t want to use their backup catcher at DH. Its not like you can blame them for that stance
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He played 3B in rookie ball.
In a perfect world, how convenient would it have been if he was the 3B of the future right? Do you think he can practice and relearn that position?
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We shouldn't have traded Laird
He had a head start on Ramirez on learning to play 3B.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 20, 2008 11:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sosa wasn't bad for the Rangers
he wasn’t great, but his only sin was being in the way of Jason Botts (and as such, forced all of us to hear endless whining from Botts obsessives), and I’m pretty confident that Botts could not have matched Sammy’s production in 2007, even if he had gotten his 500 ABs to prove himself that people demanded.
The difference is, as Dirk points out above, that Sheffield will cost $14 million, whereas Sosa was an amazing bargain at $500K. Also, in 2009, the Rangers have several far stronger DH possibilities than in 2007 – Blalock, MaxRam, Salty (if Tea is catching), whoever isn’t playing outfield.
by JBImaknee on Dec 19, 2008 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if you don't even take salary into account
the price of a good prospect for Sheffield is too much. Plus, why would we talk and talk about acquiring pitching then trade for a broken down DH. If we do trade someone, it would likely be a pitching C grade prospect which would be a BIG mistake.
ridiculous that this is even discussed
Wait 'til the year after next
by NothinG on Dec 19, 2008 2:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Cat vs. Sheff
Cat makes $4M while Sheff makes $14M and both are free agents at the end of the year. Millwood makes $11M with an option for next year at $12M that vests if he reaches 180 IP. Why not package Cat and Millwood for Sheff plus prospect and cash? Then again, you probably could get a better prospect for just Millwood right now.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Dec 19, 2008 2:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
huh?
Why would Detroit give us Sheffield + CASH when they would be taking on an extra 1 million in salary. And they are supposed to give up a prospect?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Crede
Why not kill 2 birds with one stone and sign Crede to a 1-year low-base salary contract that’s highly incentivized, e.g. he makes so much extra for being able to stay healthy and accumulate so many AB’s? Get a RH’ed power bat who could hit 5th or lower plus fill the 3B spot for a year/portion of the year. Have Metcalf/Duran around to give Crede the occasional rest at 3B to keep him healthy. Then have Max DH.
"Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."
- Emo Phillips
by Rangerchick on Dec 19, 2008 3:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Im assuming you trade Hank?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 19, 2008 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
its definitely a possibility
the only thing holding us back is that Boras is demanding a long-term deal, structured similar to Magglio Ordonez’s, for Crede. I don’t think anyone is stupid enough to offer Crede that, so ultimately you may get your wish and he ends up signing with the Rangers in order to boost his numbers and look for a long-term deal after the 2009 season.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 19, 2008 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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