Ranger Winter Meeting to-do list

I think

JD will talk to any team that doesn’t have a catcher named Maurer, Russel, Navarro, or McCann. The only way I see Sheets coming is if we dump Millwood or Padilla on someone (which is probably not happening).

by meatbonelefty on Dec 2, 2008 7:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Number one

Get rid of Gerald Laird. I don’t really care if they have to buy him a dream job as taster at a donut factory or fly him out to a remote pacific island and throw him out of the plane on a static line, I want him somewhere where he can’t screw up the playing time of our young catchers next year. Plus I think we have more leverage to trade one of the youngsters if we get rid of Laird first, because that takes the stigma of having four catchers in ’09 out of the equation.

Other than that… I’d seriously make a run at Boston for Buchholz while putting some pressure on by exploring the Yankees and the Marlins as serious catcher trade possibilites as well. I’d also try to find a nice offer for Millwood or Padilla, especially if we swing that catcher-for-a-good-young-starter deal.

"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL

by lonestarJon on Dec 2, 2008 7:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

salty was getting lots of playing time

before you thought things needed to change

""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley

by ab03 on Dec 2, 2008 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I had a lot of issues with the way this team was run

in 2008 but the fact that Gerald Laird started 39 of this team’s last 53 games was absolutely criminal.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

hmm

i guess we’ll see what happens in the off-season

""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley

by ab03 on Dec 2, 2008 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Can Frank Cat ride along in that plane?

Revenge of the Birds

by cgolden on Dec 3, 2008 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Buchholz is not getting moved period..

I really dont think it is posturing by the Boston media or by the Red Sox themselves. I simply believe they arent going to trade him.

by Michael Cave on Dec 2, 2008 8:43 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

A loss?

Would it be considered weak or a loss by JD if he ends up trading Salty to Boston for a package centered around Masterson, Bowden, or Hagadone instead of the immortal Bucholz? Would it be that he blinked first and lost?

Just trying to get the pulse of the LSB community. Is it Bucholz or bust?

Obviously this all depends on who, if anyone, would be coming with one of those pitchers in the package for Salty.

by bioaggie on Dec 2, 2008 9:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Eh

I don’t care if they get Buchholz. Obviously I’d love to have him in Texas. But I don’t think Salty is worth Buchholz, so I don’t expect Boston – a fairly well run organization if people haven’t noticed – to overpay that much for him.

by JBImaknee on Dec 2, 2008 9:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Gagne.

by Athos on Dec 2, 2008 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If it were August, the Sox were in a tight race, and lost Varitek

then maybe they overpay. They’re not going to overpay in the offseason when they could just go sign any number of veteran stop-gaps.

by JBImaknee on Dec 2, 2008 10:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Just pointing out an instance where ...

the infallible BoSox overpaid. Maybe Theo learned a lesson.

by Athos on Dec 2, 2008 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not so sure

that it was a mistake by Theo. In hindsight, ya, but at the time there was thought that Gagne could be a type A FA. Even if he wasn’t gonna reach that, there was no way for Theo to know that Gagne would be that bad in Boston. Murphy had no use on that team, I need not mention Koronka, and Beltre was/is a young guy with loads of potential but you have to give to get. At worst a 1st rd sup. pick and a few months of a solid bullpen arm would have made the deal look pretty even.

by groundingout on Dec 2, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And...

if this was a mistake by Theo, he can stare at the 2007 World Series Trophy the Red Sox have and not worry too much.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Koronka?

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Dec 2, 2008 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

he must mean

Gabbard

I guess you heard Fat Joe left Atlantic.

by Haeger Champ on Dec 2, 2008 4:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Did they?

Murphey and Gabbard are spares who would never have seen playing time in Boston and Beltre is a young high ceiling kid, but those can be had in LA for nothing more than cold hard cash money. Plus they got a supplemental first round pick in exchange for letting Gagne go, which goes a long way toward replacing Beltre. Gagne imploded in Boston, but he was very good here so there’s no real reason Theo should’ve known he was gonna do that. And if he hadn’t cratered they’d likely have gotten two freaking picks.

We look like we made out like bandits with Beltre developing nicely and Gagne imploding, but I don’t think it was an overpay at all. Good deal for both sides where the player just didn’t work for Boston.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 2, 2008 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If it was a mistake by Theo

it wasn’t a big one.

We do have a rush to judgment by many in here looking to credit JD with a good trade after having his lunch money stolen so many other times.

If Beltre comps as a Ken Griffey Jr. type (and how dumb is that to project 600+ HR’s and GG play in CF?) as I have read by some of the local cheerleaders, yeah, it was a bad deal but I don’t see that happening at all.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Even if Beltre earns that comp

later it wasn’t a bad deal for Boston. That’s the kind of deal a contender makes with a non-contender. There is a rush to judgement on every trade, signing, or even a rumor of a transaction here, it’s what we do best. Look at yesterday’s hand-wringing about the possibility of not offering arb to Bradley, for example.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 2, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

the chance of beltre panning out <<<<< less than the chance of gagne helping them down the strech in a playoff race

therefore, you make the deal.

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 2, 2008 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bucholz or bust?

I don’t think so. There are a number of other teams around the league that have young quality SP. We, and the media, keep specualting that Boston is the perfect trade partner for Salty ans the Rangers. I would bet JD has been on the phone to a number of teams about their catching needs.

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Dec 2, 2008 9:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Buchholz or bust?

No, absolutely not.

If Boston wants Salty there are plenty of workable packages. Lars Anderson is a guy I’d like to see us get it on. Manny Delcarmen is the shit. Bowden, Bard and Hagadone are all interesting in their own way. They have some really intriguing young position players like Michael Almanzar and Oscar Tejeda.

There are many different ways the Sox could put together a package that would leave me feeling all sorts of satisfied.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 2, 2008 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So what you're saying is

that it takes a Red Sox package to satisfy you?

"Relying on the government to protect your privacy is like asking a peeping tom to install your window blinds."

by Maximilian on Dec 2, 2008 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No, sorry. I thought we were talking about was it Buchholz or bust from the Sawx.

There are naturally tons of other dudes around the league I’d be happy to add to our stable in return for a spare catcher or two.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 2, 2008 6:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

not to mention

reddick, kalish, anderson, middlebrooks, westmoreland, and that asian dude (forgot his name). Yea there are a few players in that system.

and before I hear someone try and sound smart and all, I am aware westmoreland just got drafted, just saying he could be really good.

How bout a Smoak and a pancake?

by rchawk12 on Dec 2, 2008 8:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

theres a couple of (korean) guys they are pretty good – OF (CF?) and 2b that were both on league top 20s if i am not sure

they have a catcher that some think could jump up the chartes as well

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 2, 2008 9:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It would thought that JD blinked

if JD goes in targeting Buchholz and walks out with less in a deal with boston then he didnt get what he wanted and i think it throws a huge hole in his catchers are as valuable a position player as CF and SS when it comes to trading for young high quality pitching.

if he cant pull the trigger on a big time pitching prospect looking for a way to get into a rotation (like Buchh it doesnt have to be exactly boston as a trade partner) for one of his high tier catching prospects after 2+ seasons then im not convinced the market exists or ever did.

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Dec 2, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

#1

Find some guys with a lot of cash.

Hire a hypnotist to get Hicks to sell to these guys.

Hypnotist task no. 2: get new owners to have a completely hands off approach.

Hypnotist task no. 3: Theo, you really really really like Salty. Really.

Hypnotist task no. 4 (lower priority, but still nice): Mr. Adair, you hate Seattle, you really do.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 2, 2008 9:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hire a hypnotist to get Hicks to sell to these guys.

why?

45-35
Jindal '12

by Longhorn on Dec 2, 2008 11:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You want Hicks

to remain the owner of this team? Even if he hasn’t done anything horribly stupid lately he makes me nervous.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 2, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

other the arod debacle and he’ll say some stupid things to the media, but he wants to win as WS more than anything. He is willing to spend money, and has done that since he’s been here…that’s all i can ask for from an owner.

Oh, and he hired JD as GM. Not bad…

45-35
Jindal '12

by Longhorn on Dec 2, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

a*

45-35
Jindal '12

by Longhorn on Dec 2, 2008 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I usually defend Hicks

when others have simplistic knee-jerk reactions to spending or not spending. But his whiplash leadership has been disastrous for the team overall.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 2, 2008 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

werrrrd

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Dec 2, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Was it Tom Hicks who traded away Danks, CY and Agon? No.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Dec 2, 2008 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, in that case

nevermind, Hicks is great.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 2, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

heh

Bring up Matt West '09

by Chase Irwin on Dec 2, 2008 9:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't you think Hicks has had a hands-off

approach lately?

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Dec 3, 2008 7:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

More than he used to,

but he is still setting the budget and I don’t trust him to remain hands off.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 3, 2008 7:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He owns the team...of course he is going to set the budget.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Dec 3, 2008 7:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Duh

and I would like someone else to have that privilege. See my comments in this morning’s front page post for more nuance. Here I’m just venting.

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by t ball on Dec 3, 2008 9:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

With this kind of payroll strategy

does anybody see the team winning next year or a 20 year low attendance rising significantly?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Dec 3, 2008 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So you think throwing money at the roster

means they’ll win next year?

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 3, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

They are not going to win in 2009, so there is really not much of a reason to go all out on payroll. Next year is a different story. I think they will be in good position to compete in 2010.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 3, 2008 9:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why can't we win in '09?

Add Sheets and, say, Adrian Beltre and it would seem like we’d be in really good position to make a run at stupid LAAA and Oak.

If you think we have no realistic shot at winning in ’09, then I think this team is a lot closer than you think.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 3, 2008 10:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That would cost you

about $30M for both those guys. That’d be upping the payroll by almost 50% — I’m not sure there are many teams out there that could afford to do that for just 2 players.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 3, 2008 10:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And

who did you give up for Beltre? How many games does Sheets pitch? And you know that attendance will not rise that much so you’re pretty much guaranteeing yourself a $30M loss. Pretty hard to stomach.

I’d love it if that happened, it would give hope and make things much more exciting at the big league level. But I ain’t gonna hold my breath.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 3, 2008 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sorry.

I wasn’t really advocating this as the smart way to go or even my own personal dream scenario or anything, I was mainly responding with a hypothetical as a response to this:

They are not going to win in 2009, so there is really not much of a reason to go all out on payroll.

It made it sound like we were some hopeless group of crumb-bums with no hope of even being slightly competitive in ‘09. I don’t believe that to be the case.

And, fwiw, I’d think we could get Beltre for Cat’s contract/Vallejo/Kiker and a C+/B- prospect of their choosing.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 3, 2008 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The odds

I think that even if you add Sheets and Beltre it’s a crapshoot. Do those guys get you 8-10 more wins? Because that’s what I think it takes in 2009, 90+ wins. I think those two together add 6-8 wins if Sheets stays healthy, but he’s the kind of guy they seem loathe to sign these days.

They may reconsider if his price and length of contract comes down.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 3, 2008 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Dammit, t!

It’s not about those guys in particular! Those were just two hypothetical I pulled out of my little dumb-dumb head brain.

I’m saying that this team is close enough that I think if we added a few key pieces we would most definitely have a shot at 90 wins and the AL West in ’09.

And for the record I’m not even advocating it as the right course of action.

I’m just arguing a point you made that I disagree with.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 3, 2008 11:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Andystine?

Screw FA’s, unless someone wants to sign for a 1 year deal.

JD has plenty of trade chips, some of which he will use soon.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Dec 3, 2008 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Damn it, dirk!

I’m a doctor, not a GM!

I know, but any players you bring up will probably have their own concerns, cost, etc. I just went with a couple of guys for example. I’m just arguing because I like to argue.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 3, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i think they add you 8-10 wins

how many runs is beltre worth defensively at 3b over someone like davis or blalock or vazquez?

i cant remember how many wins during the regular season spursdynasty said an ace was worth but figure that adding 20 starts from sheets and subtracting 21 starts from gabbard/ponson is worth i would think at least 8 wins

hell take away the 15 starts you gave jennings/ponson and i would think that adding sheets would get you probably 5-6 wins right there

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 3, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The line of thinking y'all were throwing out though seemed to be, Why spend when we won't win anyway?

And I’m saying why couldn’t we win if we spend?

We have a really solid base in place, we’re just missing a few key pieces for ’09, imo. 3b and #1 starter. Those are big holes, but they could realistically be filled.

And our payroll would still be pretty normal for a team in our market. It would put us in the same general range as teams like Toronto and Philly and St. Louis and Milwaukee and Cleveland and Seattle and Houston and Atlanta, which is where we’ll likely need to be in order to compete down the road anyway.

A lineup of Kinsler/FFace/Hambone/Cruz/Davis/Beltre/Blalock/Byrd/Catcher and a rotation of Sheets/Millwood/Padzilla/Young Guy/Young Guy would be pretty okay assuming Sheets stays healthy and the young guys don’t all die in a fire.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 3, 2008 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think adding Sheets and Beltre

for 2009 makes a huge difference. I love both players, and I think they’d obviously help.

But, I don’t think it makes much sense to do that for next season.

You’d be throwing quite a bit of money that don’t come without a large amount of risk.

Just throwing money at the roster or changing the “payroll strategy” isn’t going to help much IMO.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 3, 2008 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

*quote a bit of money at players

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 3, 2008 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well then you can kiss '10 goodbye as well.

Cause if we’re really that far away from being competitive then we’re proper fucked for at least 3 or 4 more years until all the kids make it up… by which time Hambone and Kinsler and Davis will start to be too expensive and we can start all over again.

Frowny face :(

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 3, 2008 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why can't you go after FA's

after 2009?

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 3, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Because what'll change between now and then?

We’ll still be hearing things like:

You’d be throwing quite a bit of money that don’t come without a large amount of risk.

Just throwing money at the roster or changing the "payroll strategy" isn’t going to help much IMO.

And, look, I’m not saying those two guys would be the smartest allocation of resources, or even a smart one at all, I’m just saying this team is close enough that it’s a mistake to just make blanket statements like “They are not going to win in 2009, so there is really not much of a reason to go all out on payroll.”

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 3, 2008 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ok fair enough

however I think those that immediately jump on the rangers for not spending any money this year severely underestimate what the declining attendance and the economy will do to the team.

I don’t think it’s a smart thing to do for 2009 for competitiveness sake because I don’t think adding those 2 makes us a playoff team — and I really don’t think the current fiscal realities make it a smart thing to do either.

Both of those aspects could change for 2010 though — which would make it smarter to take on those risks. That’s all I’m saying.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 3, 2008 11:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nah

There is a great chance that the rotation is improved by 2010 just by sorting out and growing the guys already here. And I fully expect some blockbuster trade at Christmas again where Daniels adds some young pitcher fairly payroll neutral this year that makes the 2010 picture look a bit brighter in that respect.

Look at the way we viewed the outfield 2 years ago, or even one year ago. A lot can change between now and April 2010.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 3, 2008 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

about $30M for both those guys. That’d be upping the payroll by almost 50%

this is a damn shame.

its not like the rangers play in freaking denton, tx

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 3, 2008 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No, I don't believe "just throwing money at the roster"

is a smart idea.

That’s what JD did when he mindlessly threw money at JJennings & Broussard. You have to be smart about spending money.

I do think CC Sabathia would help this current team win 90 games in 2009, even with Ron Washington as the manager.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Dec 3, 2008 10:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Then what are you referring to when you say

“current payroll strategy”?

Also, I disagree the taking the current roster and adding CC suddenly makes this team win 90 games. We are much, much, much farther away from legit playoff contention than one real sure-fire ace.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 3, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Current payroll strategy

of playing in the #5 market with a payroll significantly below the Milwaukee Brewers is not working.

It is not helping the team win nor is there enough sizzle to put butts in seats.

Attendance is down nearly one million since 1999 and 600,000 since JD took the reins. DFW is treating this team like dogshit on it’s shoes.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Dec 3, 2008 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I take that to mean

you think they should increase the payroll — isn’t that the same thing as “throw money at”?

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 3, 2008 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I believe if DFW fans saw that Hicks was

doing his part and spending an appropriate amount of money on payroll, including on free agents that helped the team win, attendance will jump.

What was attendance like at TBiA from ’98-2001? When fans saw the team losing in 2002 & 2003, they quit showing up.

Jason Jennings was not going to help the 2008 team win. In 2007, the Astros were 3-15 in his starts. That was an example of JD trolling around the free agent cutout bin and mindlessly throwing money away, not to mention a very good prospect in Galarraga. Broussard didn’t cost the team anything but money but wouldn’t that extra money be nice to have going into this off-season?

The current payroll strategy has caused the team to lose and massive fan apathy because there is no sizzle or compelling reason to watch the team play.

We are watching this thing die on the vine.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Dec 3, 2008 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think getting CC

will take the attendance back up to the late 90’s levels.

What you’ve said there is such a simplistic view which ignores the fact that the Rangers spent like crazy for a few years there with no results.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 3, 2008 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Winning is the only thing that makes a difference in terms of attendance.

You can have the world’s sleekest and most full-of-naked-pictures-of-a-pre-baby-Jessica-Alba-filled marketing plan, but if you don’t win, no one’s gonna want to go sit in the stands at your home games.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 3, 2008 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

gagree

but spending money does not guarantee winning.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 3, 2008 11:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Of course not.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 3, 2008 11:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

In 1999 the Rangers had an $ 81 million payroll

(fourth in MLB), won a lot of games and nearly drew 3 million people.

Spending money wisely and winning will bring people back to the ballpark.

Last year’s team was on the fringes of post-season contention and was entertaining but it had no sizzle, played an incredibly unwatchable style of baseball and the result was the lowest attendance in 20 years.

DFW fans are rejecting the current payroll strategy.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Dec 3, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Unwatchable style of baseball?

Seemed like we had a couple of truly fun to watch players, scored a ton of runs and seemed to hit a unnaturally large amount of walkoff home runs. (Though that last one might just be my imagination.)

Really the only thing that can make a style of play “watchable” is if it produces wins.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 3, 2008 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So if it was so watchable,

how come it was their lowest attendance in 20 years?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Dec 3, 2008 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Cause we haven't won jack or shit in a very long time, I'd assume.

The Rays were extremely exciting at the beginning of the season, but no one started going until they realized that, “Hey, these guys are winning!”

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 3, 2008 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

an incredibly unwatchable style of baseball

blame ron washington

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 3, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

not to mention a very good prospect in Galarraga.

horse shit. in our weak farm system LAST YEAR he was the number 27 prospect

NO ONE thought he would be this good, not even dombrowski.

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 3, 2008 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Very optimistic, Josey

I believe if DFW fans saw that Hicks was doing his part and spending an appropriate amount of money on payroll, including on free agents that helped the team win, attendance will jump.

Nah, especially not in this economic climate. The fans will turn out about a year after the team starts to contend. Look up Tampa’s attendance this year, even late in the season. The Rangers outdrew them at home.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 3, 2008 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

When has an owner ever allowed a GM to see the budget?

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Dec 3, 2008 12:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

of course he was

and we need more pitching!

/stealhome

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 2, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

FWIW

I am still high on a Bowden and Bard package, and truthfully, I might be even more enticed by a Hagadone and Bard package if Hagadone (a power lefty) is proven to be healthy. That would not only add arguably the two best arms on the Boston farm (perhaps excluding Buchholz), it would also clear a spot on the 40. It is true that the trade could ultimately result in two bullpen arms, but I think a healthy Hagadone is worth the risk. There just aren’t many left handed arms like his in baseball.

by clark on Dec 2, 2008 10:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Affirmative on trading Laird for whatever...

…Don’t trade Salty unless it is for a major league pitcher with some kind of track record.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

do you have anyone in mind?

last year at this time i loved the idea of flipping Salty for Snell, but since then the Pirates have found a catcher of the future and Snell took a significant step back last season. The teams we have heard who are interested in Salty don’t have extra big league arms to give, and I am not a huge fan on paying a premium for middling major league success.

I suppose there is still a chance JD can convince the Royals to deal Grienke for a package based around Salty and a SS, but he seems determined to test the market when he reaches FA, which just happens to coincide with when this team could truly be competitive, so I am not a huge fan of that idea.

by clark on Dec 2, 2008 10:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Does he have anyone in mind?

No, he’ll just throw out vague generalities now, and in 6 months talk about how stupid the Rangers were not to sign insert comeback player of the year back in the winter, when he absolutely knew he was gonna bust out.

Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.

by Brian Thomas on Dec 2, 2008 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well hello

Gomer Fucking Pyle aka Brian Thomas.

Do we wanna drop the fact that you served in the military for 9 years before we talk about baseball? Make sure everybody knows that. Can we move forward now?

I don’t want to give up Salty just yet because I think this is a potential very good player / almost star and it would be foolish to give up on him at this point, especially when we don’t know his true value.

We also need a capable back-up for TT because we need to see if his body can stand the rigors of catching 110 games / year.

The goal for this year should be to get Salty 500 ab’s (mainly as DH / some while catching) so we have a better gauge of the player. This is a kid that can potentially hit 25 dingers with an OPS approaching .900 who can play catcher and oh by the way, switch-hit. There is great value for players like that.

That way, you can get true value for him if you still feel like you need to trade for a pitcher, meaning a really good pitcher with a track record of success in The Show.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 11:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

your plan blows

and if salty can’t hit 900? we turned an up and coming catching prospect into a mediocre bat without a position because you wanted to get him AB’s instead of reps at catcher.

""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley

by ab03 on Dec 2, 2008 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The goal for this year should be to get Salty 500 ab’s (mainly as DH / some while catching) so we have a better gauge of the player. This is a kid that can potentially hit 25 dingers with an OPS approaching .900 who can play catcher and oh by the way, switch-hit. There is great value for players like that.

i agree with you here, however the chance of this happening with ron washington as this teams manager is next to zero.

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 2, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i disagree

Salty needs to be behind the plate – wherever he is. If he isn’t proving to the Rangers or other teams that he can handle a pitching staff, throw out runners, and block some balls in the dirt then it really doesn’t matter how well he hits in those 500 ABs. We’ve already got MaxRam – we don’t need to develop another DH.

I guess you heard Fat Joe left Atlantic.

by Haeger Champ on Dec 2, 2008 4:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well my point was that he needs the ABs to develop his bat…the catching will come along, and in a perfect world he would get 500 AB behind the plate, but IF they keep teagarden (something i am getting further and further away from – either keep him/trade laird/salty or keep salty/trade teagarden/laird – let salty/teagarden play almost every day behind the plate and sign someone to backup them and let max play every day at AAA or let max be the every day DH at the major league level and be the 3rd catcher)

i think the perfect thing is:
keep salty (lowest value its been in a long time – 2+ years) – let him play every day at the MLB level
trade teagarden (lets be honest, his value cant be any higher)
trade laird (jared burton interest anyone?)
keep max, let him play at AAA every day or DH every day at the ML level

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 2, 2008 5:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Bring up Matt West '09

by Chase Irwin on Dec 2, 2008 9:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+2

"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL

by lonestarJon on Dec 2, 2008 9:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So...

You have no one in mind on who Salty should realistically be traded for?

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 2, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ask him in 6 months

Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.

by Brian Thomas on Dec 2, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's all you have, BT?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

How ever could I top "Gomer fuckin Pyle?"

Golleee, you’ve bested me again, you urbane bon moter, you.

Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.

by Brian Thomas on Dec 2, 2008 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

After witnessing some of your musings in here, BT...

…you’re probably not going to top it.

You’re the one that came after me. If you want to talk Great Game, move forward.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

so, ummm

still no one that you would consider fair and realistic value for Salty?

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 2, 2008 5:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Easy to be a tape recorder that recites the problem

a bit harder to think of a solution, let alone execute it.

Also awaiting who you would target for Salty and your rationale behind its feasibility.

Bring up Matt West '09

by Chase Irwin on Dec 2, 2008 9:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

why would you trade on him. your selling at your lowest value possible, at least his lowest value in the last 2+ years. why move him now?

i am a firm believer in trading when someones value is at their highest and keeping players whose values are at their lowest and letting them accumulate value

did i think we traded chris young at his highest value, yes.
did i think we traded danks at his highst value, meh – probably (this is pre-cutter of course)
did we trade adrian gonzalez at his highest value, no.
did we trade juan gonzalez at his highest value in teh DET trade, yes.
did we trade ricrod at his highest value, probably

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 2, 2008 5:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

btw a fair value for him

let me think about that for a bit – will get back to it tonight

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 2, 2008 5:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ok, Governor.

613photo

by Black Francis on Dec 2, 2008 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Salty has 14 HR & 59 RBI in close

to 550 ab’s and will be 23 years old on Opening Day 2009. He had a tough year in 2008 (probably because he was looking over his shoulder all year) but his OBP improved to .352. That is a key number in evaluating young talent and should only improve.

This is the type of player that shows rapid improvement in the next couple of years as long as your brain dead manager doesn’t play Gerald Laird in front of him.

This is not supposed to be a year of contention and we supposedly have lots of young arms on the way. We also only have one Salty in the system and this kid has some of the earmarks of potential stardom.

Don’t sell low!!

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 11:43 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

you are the one that wants to mainly DH him

""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley

by ab03 on Dec 2, 2008 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, I'd like to see

somebody with upside like Salty getting ab’s instead of sitting on the bench, flicking sunflower seeds and wondering why the hell the dumb-ass manager insists that Gerald Laird is a better option.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm in favor

of some DH time for him, as long as he’s catching at least 3-4 days a week as well. A 4/3 day split of Tea and Salty with Max in AAA working on catching skills would suit me fine for at least the 1st half of 2009. Trade Laird.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 2, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If we can get a solid, under control bullpen arm

for Laird I’d be satisfied.

I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.

by TheBZA on Dec 2, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

jared burton interest anyone?

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 2, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

We got Max Ramirez for Kenny Lofton. We could surely work a deal for Laird with a return of more than a bullpen arm.

by hiafex on Dec 2, 2008 6:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

really?

maxram was seen as an ok prospect who probably wouldnt stick at catcher in a system already with vic martinez at catcher

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 2, 2008 9:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If the market were slightly less saturated, I think we could easily grab a ML-ready closer.

As it stands, I’d like to see a prospect that has closer potential who is near-ready. If nobody is offering value, dump him at the last possible second for whatever is left. That way, if Salty/Tea or Max (or one of both groups) are dealt because equivalent value is offered, then you can keep Laird as backup C (which would be necessary insurance due to the injury history of the ML-ready guys)

Bring up Matt West '09

by Chase Irwin on Dec 2, 2008 9:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess

I just see a ton of pitchers in our organization and several of which will wind up in the bullpen. I’m hoping a Laird for some type of 3rd base prospect type of deal will fall into place.

by hiafex on Dec 2, 2008 11:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I would be absolutely fine with that...

So long as we get a slightly above-average return for Laird.

I think it’s going to take a lot for someone not to woo Salty away from JD. I bet someone ponies up and offers a good package for him at some point, or JD proposes something that someone finally says yes to.

"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin

by utlonghorn24 on Dec 2, 2008 6:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So are you off the Teagarden bandwagon now?

I mean, after all, you started that thing, right?

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 2, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Heh

I doubt this gets answered.

Bring up Matt West '09

by Chase Irwin on Dec 2, 2008 9:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

As soon as rumor put

Teagarden as the front office favorite, Josey got off that bandwagon. If Daniels likes him, Josey has to hate him, simple as that.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 2, 2008 11:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Trade Laird

Package a deal centered around him + his favorite dippin’ dots machine at the RBIA for a young reliever.

Let Salty/TT battle it out for the starting job in ST.

"Relying on the government to protect your privacy is like asking a peeping tom to install your window blinds."

by Maximilian on Dec 2, 2008 1:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Winter Meeting Footnote

Assign John Hart to administrative scouting. The territory should include Doral, TPC at Sawgrass, Pine Valley, Pebble Beach, Cypress Point, Interlochen, Atlanta Athletic Club, Jekyll Island, Bethpage, Oakmont, Whistling Straits but nothng in the DFW metro area. He can noodle and make contact with like minds.

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Dec 2, 2008 1:53 PM CST reply actions 1 recs

Hart

Since you used the term administrative scouting, he does seem to have a bit of a talent for finding good front office administrators, right? He’s got a pretty nice list of protegees, including several current GMs. That might be one task I’d be comfortable with him assisting.

by Brett Perryman on Dec 2, 2008 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you mean he hasnt already been assigned to this/

that seems to be what he is doing/his job description

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 2, 2008 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

OK, it goes like this:

The Rangers trade Padilla, MY and Byrd for Willis and Porcello. An exchange of bad contracts, but the Tigers are willing because they see their window of playoff opportunity running out. The Rangers are willing since it seems that teams really won’t give up frontline starting pitching without asking for the moon in return. Would this make you happy or sad?

"Evolution happened, now get over it." Michael Shermer

by rodcarew on Dec 2, 2008 9:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Both

We’d immediately get great financial flexibility, but we’d suffer in the short-term. However, if Porcello is as good as advertised, I’d take that deal.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Dec 2, 2008 9:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

lol

You honestly think a garbage package like that is going to get you a Porcello?

I can’t wait to read this response.

This is an exciting time in my life.

The LSB CPP's are in full bloom.

by Chase Irwin on Dec 2, 2008 10:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nope

That’s not what he asked though.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Dec 2, 2008 10:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Touche

but you did say that we’d suffer in the short-term. If we’re not suffering enough in the short term, I’m not sure that the loss of those 3 players would exactly paralyze us. And, yes, Porcello is as good as advertised. That’s a no-brainer.

the moon in return

This is an exciting time in my life.

The LSB CPP's are in full bloom.

by Chase Irwin on Dec 2, 2008 10:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Short Term

I only say we’d hurt in the short term, because we’d lose the production of those 3 guys. We don’t have anybody that would step in and produce along the lines of a Byrd. However, with that financial flexibility we could go out and get someone to fill in if possible.

Also, I’m not ready to anoint Porcello as a no-brainer guy. He’s a great prospect, but he didn’t set the world on fire at High-A. He’s got 3 years left before he’s out of options, so the clock is ticking. That’s not to say I don’t like him a lot. I just don’t think I can say he’s going to be a #1 yet when he hasn’t hit AA.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Dec 2, 2008 10:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

x

Byrd is easily replaceable. Murphy / Boggs LF; Hammy CF; Cruz in RF. Once Borbon arrives, Murphy and Boggs become replaceable if Julio is the real deal. Wouldn’t you keep Cruz in RF and play Josh in LF since he has better range? I would. That would have to be the best OF in baseball defensively and possibly offensively as well (Cruz being the real deal, Borbon hitting enough)

I don’t need your confirmation that he’s a #1. One look at his contract, age, level and stats should tell you that he did set the world on fire. If he’s not in the majors in 2 years, something went terribly wrong.

Pitch – Present/Future Grade

Fastball – 60/65

Slider -50/55

Curveball -50/60

Changeup – 55/60

Command – 50/60

Summary –

There’s been tons of hype tossed on this guy by about any writer that can spell his name, but it doesn’t look like it’s gone to his head and he’s everything that was advertised.

Read up.

This is an exciting time in my life.

The LSB CPP's are in full bloom.

by Chase Irwin on Dec 2, 2008 10:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Opinion Split

There’s a split in opinion over what Porcello will turn out to be. Some think he’ll start striking people out (which he didn’t do too much in Lakeland), others think he’ll continue to just be a groundball guy. If he’s just a groundball guy, then he’s not a #1. He’s got time to improve, but having a Major League contract really limits his time. I do know a lot about his scouting reports, but you can’t anoint him until he’s pitched against better competition in a better hitter’s league.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Dec 3, 2008 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

it would never ever everever ever ever ever ever ever ever happen

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 2, 2008 10:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It'd make me happy because that would only happen in a crazy dream world and I've always thought it'd be fun to be living ina crazy dream world cause I bet I could totally nail Jessica Alba in that sort of world.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 3, 2008 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's just one too many

evers for my taste. But it could happen if we included a catcher in the deal right? How come nobody noticed that a catcher was missing for the Tigers?

"Evolution happened, now get over it." Michael Shermer

by rodcarew on Dec 2, 2008 10:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs