Is the Rangers 2009 pitching staff already set?
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 2, 2008 11:20 AM CST
224 comments
One of the things that I was thinking early in the offseason was that the Rangers were going to have some interesting decisions to make in regards to their 2009 pitching staff.
But with the team cutting loose Kam Loe and Wes Littleton, that isn't necessarily the case...in fact, I'm starting to think that, barring injuries, we can probably pretty well identify the 12 man pitching staff right now.
Start with the rotation...Kevin Millwood and Vicente Padilla are both locks, unless they are traded, which is possible but not probable. There is a group of pitchers who are considered to be vying for the next three slots, but if everyone is healthy, it seems that Matt Harrison, Brandon McCarthy, and Scott Feldman (who is out of options) will almost certainly end up rounding out the rotation.
In the bullpen, Frankie Francisco, Joaquin Benoit, and C.J. Wilson are locks. Josh Rupe and Willie Eyre would appear to be near-locks. Dustin Nippert is out of options, and seems to have impressed enough folks towards the end of last season to get the nod as the long man.
That leaves one spot, probably for a lefty, and that second lefty will probably be either a veteran Guardado-type picked up on a one year deal, or a Rule 5 pick.
Now, things could end up changing...for example, Padilla or Millwood could get moved. But I suspect one of those two would be dealt only if the Rangers made another deal for a young pitcher they felt could be plugged into the rotation immediately.
And someone will end up getting hurt, which would open up a potential rotation spot for Nippert, Eric Hurley, or maybe a dark horse like Tommy Hunter or Derek Holland. Warner Madrigal could end up sticking in the pen in a setup role, particularly if Eyre, Benoit or Francisco go down.
But overall, the only real mystery, to me, as to the 2009 pitching staff is who the 2nd lefty will be.
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If this is true,
I put the over/under at 920 runs allowed and a below .500 record.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 11:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
If health is better than last year
that run total might be lower, but I’d still expect about a .500 record. Maybe just above if they’re lucky or perform especially well.
I think the offense might regress a tad, the pitching might improve a small amount, but that still adds up to about 80-82 wins.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 2, 2008 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sigh
we are sooo gonna suck again next season
by shroomer on Dec 2, 2008 11:24 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
And I also wonder how the
team defense is also going to improve.
This is going to be the baseball version of Groundhog Day.
The only glimpse of optimism for big change would be the fact that Padilla and possibly Millwood will be in contract years.
We’re going to have roll with the inevitable struggles of both Hurley & Harrison because almost all young pitchers struggle in their first 50+ starts plus we’ll have to deal with McCarthy’s replacement after he tears his labia in his 4th start.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Torn Labia Ain't Gonna Happen
I’m no arthroscopic surgeon nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I’m pretty sure that it’s medically impossible for Brandon McCarthy to tear his labia.
His labrum is an entirely different story!
by Mister Naxal on Dec 2, 2008 5:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you consider
that maybe McCarthy stayed in a Holiday Inn Express recently?
by Hubris on Dec 2, 2008 7:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's saying McCarthy
is a pussy.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 2, 2008 8:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yup
pretty safe to say that we could run the current cast of characters out there and have the league’s best offense and the league’s worst pitching. Gee, wouldn’t that be fun to watch again? I think I’ll run out and buy a mini plan right now.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Dec 2, 2008 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
2009 sked for grins
Open vs CLE at home – Carmona and Lee – ugh
Go to DET – freeze azz off – get beat by Armando Galarraga – zing
Home again for BAL and KC – better win 4 outta 6 at least
Roadie to TOR and BAL – I’d take a split of those games
End April at home vs OAK – probably need a sweep for a .500 month
by shroomer on Dec 2, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so we get a chance
to kick start Galarraga’s horrible fall back to earth, huh? Glad to hear it.
by clark on Dec 2, 2008 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe we'll get to see a Galarraga-McCarthy matchup
Who would you bet on? The guy that was obtained for nothing? Or the guy that we traded an ace for?
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Dec 2, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
he wouldn’t have been an ace here unless you were going to teach him that cutter yourself. Probably another Hurley/Harrison back of the rotation guy.
"Relying on the government to protect your privacy is like asking a peeping tom to install your window blinds."
by Maximilian on Dec 2, 2008 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
This is an all-to-often ignored factor when people lament how our pitchers go elsewhere and do well: pitching coaches and instruction. And whereas Danks got to add the CHW organizational standard cutter to his resume, McCarthy came here and had to sit underneath Mark Connor, who I still submit was the Ron Washington of pitching coaches: his meddling always seemed to do more harm than good.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Dec 2, 2008 9:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
but
his secondary stuff must not be that much better as he was found out more and more each month. his era increased from the mid 1s to the mid 4s by the end of the season. I think if Feliz located his fastball, he could accomplish a mid 4s ERA.
by texaschief on Dec 2, 2008 10:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Danks is an ace?
I’m not trying to rehash, but I’m curious if you really see him that way.
FWIW, Marcel and James project FIP spikes over half a run (4.00+).
His BB/9 and HR/9 rates should increase notably for next year. I just think .69 HR/9 is a bit unsustainable, even for Him.
This is an exciting time in my life.
The LSB CPP's are in full bloom.
by Chase Irwin on Dec 4, 2008 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
any chance.....
Neftali Feliz makes a run at the rotation?
by clinton33 on Dec 2, 2008 11:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Doubtful
His secondary stuff isn’t up to par for a ML starting rotation right now. He could possibly be in the bullpen with just his fastball right now but not the rotation
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 2, 2008 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah but
neither were Volquez’s. Edinson only had two pitches and was able to parlay that into a 17 win season with the aid of the 36th ranked run support. with the Rangers’ offense, you never know. Maybe his fastball and secondary stuff could be enough to get him through a full season in the bigs.
by texaschief on Dec 2, 2008 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Difference
Volquez’s change was far far better than any secondary pitch Feliz throws right now. Lets not rush the kid ok. He’ll be here in short time
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 2, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Also, Volquez’s 17 win season only happened after he went back to A-ball and learned how to throw a breaking ball as well.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Dec 2, 2008 9:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No chance to start out in rotation
The only way we see him in the Ballpark in April if hes in the bullpen, and I’m sure that the Rangers don’t want that to happen, seeing how they want him to stay in the minors to work on his secondary pitches
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Dec 2, 2008 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not just that
John Olerud could steal a base off him if he still played.
"Yeah, like I had a chance there" - Lancaster batter, after striking out against Derek Holland
by chrisR on Dec 2, 2008 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Holland...
The Rangers are including Holland in their new commercials trying to sell mini-plans. I’d bet he’s in the rotation before the ASB
by Topgun22 on Dec 2, 2008 11:33 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
You ahve to think Hurley is ahead in the pecking order
for first rotation replacement. Of course, by the ASB, we should easily expect at least McCarthy to be gone frmo the rotation due to some random injury (replaced by Hurley) and at leats one other to have an injury or just be completely ineffective.
by JBImaknee on Dec 2, 2008 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I liked what I saw out of Hurley
last year but he only had 5 ML starts v. Harrison who had 15 ML starts.
If Hurley could go 10-14 with a 5.04 ERA in 165 IP’s (but throws strikes and continues to work quickly), I’d consider that a victory.
I kinda feel the same way about Harrison because I don’t see this team scoring 8+ runs / game for him like they did in 2008.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would absolutely love
Eric Hurley’s first season line to look like that.
by jwiscarson on Dec 2, 2008 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Hurley gets first shot it seems to get in the rotation
I believe that McCarthy or Feldman could get injuried at one point, so they’ll put Hurley in, but if the season is suppose to go as plan (meaning below .500 at ASB) I expect them to trade one of Millwood or Padilla, thus giving Holland a chance in the rotation
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Dec 2, 2008 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I heard that this morning on the ticket
I guess that about 1% of their listening audience had any clue who Holland was. Maybe even less than that.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 2, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would guess
that about 1% of the employees of the Ticket know who Holland is. I mean, I like the Ticket but it is a big baseball dead spot
by BEW on Dec 2, 2008 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pathetic to rush the kid...
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Dec 2, 2008 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Secret sources tell me
that McCarthy won’t be available for ST. Seems he suffered an injury during his Thanksgiving meal of turkey flavored gelatin washed down with a nice bottle of oxygen.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Dec 2, 2008 11:49 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
a full year of 100% healthy
Benoit, Frankie, and CJ will make a dramatic difference with a staff full of 6 inning pitchers.
by SteveP on Dec 2, 2008 11:50 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
SteveP,
The bully was overworked in 2008 which is often the precursor to what is going to happen the following year.
Thinking outside the box…what about making the Blueglovelefty a starter?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 11:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
making him a starter
made a lot of sense a year or two ago, but his value in the pen is too high now. Besides, who would he push out of the rotation in 2009?
by SteveP on Dec 2, 2008 11:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
SteveP,
I think CJ has much more upside than Feldman and I don’t see McCarthy taking the bump 35 times either.
The fact that leftys are so much more successful in Arlington should be something that’s exploited and when I see CJ pitch, it feels like watching Kenny Rogers circa 1991.
We’re not going to be seeing new talent coming in via free agency so it’s internal, outside the box type thinking we are going to need to improve.
Along those lines, why not emulate what the Rays did with Upton and move Kinsler to a COF spot? Yeah, that may mean there’s not a spot on the team for somebody like Murphy but David Murphy can’t hit like Kinsler.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No starting pitcher in the majors...
…took the bump 35 times in the regular season last year, other than Sabathia.
And putting Kinsler in a COF slot is just a waste. If you don’t want him at 2B, trade him.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 2, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can I get a mulligan or a cyber foot wedge and change
that number of taking the bump to 32 times?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
there will be injuries, no doubt
but are you gonna make CJ a spot starter? I’d be all for jettisoning Millwood and Padilla and go with a rotation of McCarthy, Harrison, Feldman, CJ, Hurley….and just take our lumps in 2009.
by SteveP on Dec 2, 2008 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you could make CJ your setup or your badass lefty bp guy (that adam says is lacking)
and buy a badass closer.
there is room for a guy in the BP.
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on Dec 2, 2008 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can'
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Dec 2, 2008 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Stupid keyboard
I can’t really see us buying anything. Maybe the economy will crash so hard we can get Kerry Wood on a 1 year 4M deal. But does anyone really see that happening?
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Dec 2, 2008 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
when tom hicks comes to his senses and realizes
that not one of his star players draws fans b/c the fans are all sick of their tired ass act, he will buy some1 just to keep every fan somewhat hopeful, if anything that has been a tom hicks trend whenever our club is hopeless.
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on Dec 2, 2008 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
could that someone be
local hero Kerry Wood?
I kinda hope so…but then again, if we acquired Wood, I’d be half tempted to make HIM a starter again. yes, and blow out his elbow…again. But I’d be half tempted
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 2, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love me some kerry wood on a 1-year deal
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Dec 2, 2008 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Healthy Benoit
Is the same as previously healthy Benoit. Benoit had one good season, and I am confused why everyone thinks that was anything but a spike in his productivity. I cannot see how we should count on Benoit to be anything other than below average.
by FuturePants on Dec 2, 2008 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
trying to be optimistic in December
he’s been solid as a non-closing reliever all along. clearly he was injured from Day 1 last year.
by SteveP on Dec 2, 2008 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
Benoit has had two seasons with a WHIP under 1.33, career WHIP of 1.417; he has had two seasons with an ERA of under 5.00. I just don’t get why people think that this team can count on Benoit. The guy is not very good.
by FuturePants on Dec 2, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
check his career splits as a reliever
3.69 ERA
1.27 whip
.219 batting average
.658 ops
by SteveP on Dec 2, 2008 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
1.27 WHIP
Is not very good for what he is supposed to be (8th inning guy).
by FuturePants on Dec 2, 2008 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's better than
80% of the alternatives
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 2, 2008 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right.
And those 80% of the alternatives are relegated to long man or DFA’d or something.
by FuturePants on Dec 2, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so you're telling me that healthy Benoit wouldn't be useful to any of this year's playoff teams?
he would’ve been benched or traded or flat out released?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 2, 2008 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Benoit has been healthy every other year except 2008.
And the guy has sucked plenty in the past, so, yes – I would have benched him plenty of times (and not given him new contracts, etc.). I hate him, what can I say?
by FuturePants on Dec 2, 2008 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Then I guess KRod needs to be a long man or ...
not signed by anyone.
His WHIP in 2008 was a pathetic 1.29.
by Athos on Dec 2, 2008 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you saying KRod was the best closer?
He had a gaudy save number, but his peripherials were unimpressive.
by FuturePants on Dec 2, 2008 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I said:
“Then I guess KRod needs to be a long man or not signed by anyone. His WHIP in 2008 was a pathetic 1.29.”
I think that speaks for itself, vis-a-vis the point you were trying to make about Benoit’s qualifications to be a set-up reliever.
by Athos on Dec 2, 2008 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would not sign K-Rod, no.
Does that make things clearer?
by FuturePants on Dec 3, 2008 8:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hurley
Did he really fall so far last year that he’s not even a likely MLB starter for us without injury or trade?
Is he no longer even considered a solid 4th? I guess he’d have to replace one of your 3,4 or 5s and maybe only Feldman could be passed by him.
Of course the options affect the roster decision.
by gr7070 on Dec 2, 2008 11:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hurley
Hes simply being squeezed out right now. Its not due to him so much as others. Millwood and Padilla are locks. Feldman is out of options and with how he pitched last year he is a lock to at least start the year. Harrison had a nice rookie season last year and stayed healthy. I would say hes ahead of Hurley right now even though both have about the same ceiling. And McCarthy has a higher ceiling than Hurley when healthy. So assuming he is healthy BMac will be in the rotation. Hurley should be the first injury replacement and once the vets contracts run out he will have a slot
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 2, 2008 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Right now the only way I see Hurley starting the season off in the rotation if they decided to throw Feldman in the bullpen, McCarthy gets hurt somehow, or they believe that Harrison needs a little time in the minors cause he either needs it or got rocked in a couple of starts in April
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Dec 2, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i have a feeling
that Hurley will out perform Feldman, Harrison, and McCarthy this spring. But the Rangers will avoid a tight spot because we are talking about McCarthy here, so you can go ahead and pencil Hurley into that spot.
As far as the LOOGY goes, I vote for taking a flier on Ryan Mullins in the Rule 5 draft if possible. And of course Corey Young has to be considered a dark horse candidate as well, despite his lack of professional experience. Stuff is stuff.
by clark on Dec 2, 2008 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Hurley clearly outperforms all them
Then I see Harrison starting in OKC and Hurley in Arlington.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 2, 2008 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
second lefty
EG mentioned the Eraser as a possibility. That guy would be a solid second lefty in the pen, and he’s a minor league FA, so even the Rangers could possibly fit him into the budget.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Dec 2, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i would be all for bringing him back
honestly, seeing as how this team is pinching pennies, I am surprised we haven’t seen more minor league FA signings so far. I am no Dayton Moore fan, but his work in building an effective, cheap bullpen with FA castoffs and buy-low trades and then shipping them out at the peak of their value is admirable. The Jacobs trade was a head scratcher, but the Crisp trade was silly-good. I would love to see JD show that same ability.
by clark on Dec 2, 2008 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I need to see some more
from KC before rendering judgment but could that team sneak above .500 in 2009?
Lots of hungry young players and pitchers with nice upside and they finished strong in 2008.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Crisp trade was silly-good?
Ramon Ramirez is a pretty nice reliever who Boston will have for many years under team control. I don’t know if I would call that silly good
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 2, 2008 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ehh
I like Ramirez, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see Robinson Tejeda step into his role next year and put up similar numbers. Meanwhile, Crisp is a plus defensive CF with a solid contact bat. He got pushed out of Boston despite outplaying his hyped up replacement, but I have a feeling he responds to a fresh start and everyday play by hitting .300 and putting up numbers closer to his Cleveland days, all while playing plus CF defense.
by clark on Dec 2, 2008 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For one year
Is Crisp the piece that puts them over the edge this year? Because if not you just gave up a promising young power arm for one year of a guy that doesn’t help you get anywhere you wouldn’t have gotten without him
And counting on Robinson Tejeda is not a smart move. His numbers were nice last year in KC but that is mostly because he was put in very very few high stress situations. He mostly came in during mop up duty when the game was well in hand for one side or the other
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 2, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The thing about KC is that
they are attacking their weaknesses.
They made a very nice improvement in team defense in 2008 (as far as errors committed go) and trading for Crisp is going to help them improve.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One more thing about the Royals...
Hillman seemed to have his ups & downs as the manager of the team and it was anything but an easy ride but they did play well at the end of the season which is a very good sign for a young team.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't the same case be made...
for the Rangers at the end of 07?? Manager had his ups and downs, young team finished strong.
by bking on Dec 2, 2008 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Valid point bking,
but the 2007 Rangers roster was very unstable. The team that played in the first half was very different than the team that played in the second half.
In the second half we got lots of Cat, Wilkerson, some Sosa, Botts (who proved he couldn’t play) Vasquez and a few other spares. MYoung was a big part of that but I didn’t expect him to improve, I expected him to be the same. The only real talented young players with upside getting time were Kinsler & Salty. The one young pitcher who did well in September got traded for Josh.
When you look at how that team regressed in terms of team defense & walks allowed from the previous year, that was a huge red flag to me (it still is) and I took it as further proof that this wasn’t a good manager.
I said before the 2008 season I expected the Rangers to win 76 games because I didn’t see any substantial hope for any real improvement.
It’s too early to make predictions about next year but for all this bs we hear about how resilient they supposedly are, they finished the season 19-29. It took all they had to fight off the bleeping Oakland A’s in the last week of the season.
If this same thing comes back with the same manager, there’s no way anybody could logically expect substantial improvement.
We need change and somebody who can think outside the box because the sos isn’t going to work.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What about their OBP weakness?
They’ve done nearly nothing to address that and it is probably a bigger problem than their defense.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 2, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Crisp is a better CF’er than DeJesus?
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 2, 2008 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Anecdotally, maybe
For as much as Josey complains about Daniels, I’d think he’d like Moore even less.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 2, 2008 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This comment is probably misplaced, but I do think that Moore will do in KC what they brought him in to do. He’s not responsible for Greinke or Hochevar (and will probably lose Greinke), but with those two and Meche, and then looking at the pitchers he’s starting to stockpile (including the guys in their top ten: Cortes, Montgomery, Melville, Duffy, Rosa, Gutierrez and Wood, as well as some other arms that I think are pretty good), I think he will put together a good pitching staff. I’m not sure exactly what he’s doing positionally in some spots, though.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 2, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I think Moore
is doing alright, but it’s a good example of how difficult rebuilding can be. I think some feel like it’s a slam dunk if you lose a bunch and get high draft choices, whamo you have tons of talent again. That’s one reason I feel good about the Rangers. The entire front office has done a tremendous job identifying talent to restock the minor league system.
Now we’ll see if they can do an adequate job identifying the talent to add to a contender in the next couple years.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 2, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I also think that
Hosmer was a terrific pick and that he and Moustakas could be pretty big for them in time. I guess I’m more impressed with what he’s done so far and see more progress than most. They don’t have an overall system like ours, but with the exception of Gutierrez all of those pitchers on their top ten are favorites of mine as far as pitching prospects for their level/caliber. And though the collection of position players that Baird collected looks very disappointing at this point, I think that they have a chance to have a nice little NL style group, with Gordon, Moustakas and Hosmer eventually in the middle of the lineup. And while I didn’t like the Jacobs deal, I really liked the Callaspo pickup last year.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 2, 2008 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And they did have a great draft last year
Remember seeing that many ranked it as the best draft last year (with us being a close second)
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Dec 2, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hosmer, Melvill and Montgomery is quite a start.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 2, 2008 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Question
Which draft class would you take? 08 Rangers or 08 Royals? What about the 08 Royals vs. the 07 Rangers?
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Dec 2, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Royals & Rangers
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Dec 2, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d probably have to take KC’s top 4-5 rounds over ours, but those two HS pitchers could easily go either way. I think we’ll have a much better early indication by next June.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 2, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Moore hired Hillman
while Jonny Donuts not only hired Ron Washington but then extended him.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and I've seen nothing
out of Hillman to impress me, though I am equally unimpressed with Washington.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 2, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Improved their win loss record by
6 games, addressed some weaknesses, rode the storm out with some unhappy vets and finished strong.
That team still needs a big stick in the middle.
The verdict is not in for Hillman but I lean towards him being a good manager (from 500 miles away because I don’t watch him every day), a much better manager than Ron Washington.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Better than Wash?
Could be, but that isn’t reason enough to be impressed with the hire. Washington is terrible at in game management, but I’d have to give him some credit for the people skills. His players like him and play hard and that’s part of the equation, too.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 2, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And Hillman
damned near had a clubhouse mutiny last season…and it wasn’t just the vets.
Hillman is a failed bit thus far.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Dec 2, 2008 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Washington is not supposed to worry about being their
“friend” or give a rat’s ass if anybody likes him.
Yeah, he’ll let the boys play slip n’ slide in NYC and also lets them decide when to take extra infield practice but what’s the end result?
His people skills were so good last year that this team broke the gate 7-16, committed more errors than any other team in MLB and then finished the season 19-29. I don’t have a reliable baserunning metric but I’ve watched the Great Game for 40 years and this is one of the dumbest teams I’ve ever seen run the bases, vets and rooks included.
This is a sloppy, unfundamental, stupid team and a big reason why is the dumb ass manager.
Trey Hillman may not be a good manager in KC but he is infinitely better than Ron Washington.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hillman
Would have been an awful hire for the Rangers. However, the topic is pitching. How does it spin off to the usual prejudicial view of Ron Washington? I’m not excited about his managerial mode, but he has gone through the steps to get player affiliation, which is followed by player confidence, which is followed by increased player competence. A stern whip simply doesn’t work.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Dec 2, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ed, my views of Washington
have everything to do with the product on the field and how it has produced for him and nothing to do whatsoever with the color of his skin.
I judge him exactly like I would judge a white manager or a hispanic manager.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They're really not so different
in their effectiveness. Hillman and Washington went through a significant learning curve and seem to be growing into the job a bit.
Frankly, I think you’d hate Washington and like Hillman less if Daniels had hired Hillman and KC Washington. You view everything through a “JD is a stupid kid” prism.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 2, 2008 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What you don't get
Is that prejudice goes well beyond skin color or ethnicity. Dislike for a particular kind of person can be manifested a dozen ways, but in any case is based on perception. Descriptions used to emphasize criticism define the point of view. Being judgmental should (but doesn’t) require greater knowledge or accomplishment than the person being critiqued.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Dec 2, 2008 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So we're clear that I
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So we're clear that I'm not
prejudice against Washington because of his skin color?
I’m awfully tough on JD and Hicks …and they’re both very white.
I happen to believe true progress between the races will be made when a white person can be allowed to criticize a black manager without worrying about being accused of racism. We’re not there yet.
Ron Washington, by most accounts was a great 3B coach in Oakland and is held in very high regard by that organization and their fans, but was never considered managerial material by one of the smartest minds in the game.
Ed, I’m not privy to know what goes on in the Ranger clubhouse but I am privy to the standings and tell-tale stats to go along with a lot of experience in watching the Great Game.
I know a dumb manager in over his head when I see one, and Ron Washington rates with the dumbest managers I’ve ever seen.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
You could start criticizing Rudy Jamarillo every day and go for the hat trick
by BEW on Dec 2, 2008 4:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No problems with
901 runs scored, hoss.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
didn't KC
acquire Crisp so that they could move DeJesus to left? And wasn’t there a recent publication stating that teams playing two guys with CF range in the OF had a positive correlation with the success of that team?
But I agree that Moore has not done enough to address his team’s OBP weakness. But I think he decided early on that resources would be limited this offseason and he identified power and OF defense as two areas of need he could address on the cheap.
by clark on Dec 2, 2008 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Give me some DeJesus!
Trade Hamilton for Hughes…
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Dec 2, 2008 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see how Hurley doesn't get the chance over Harrison
I just can’t fathom it.
Plus, I see Madrigal sticking over Eyre.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Dec 2, 2008 11:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
What did Harrison do last year to lose his spot?
He and Hurley are very similar prospects ceiling wise and Harrison was able to stay healthy last year which means alot to the Rangers these days.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 2, 2008 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't hate Harrison
but a .300 BAA (.268 for Hurley) and a 1.57 WHIP (1.42 for Hurley) don’t tell me that Harrison should be guaranteed a spot in the rotation.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Dec 2, 2008 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Most rookie SP
have an adjustment period. Harrison had his last year. I would expect an era of around 4.50 for Harrison this year.
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Dec 2, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That
would be exceptional. I’m not sure we can just expect that.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 2, 2008 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
plus he's a lefty
a definite need in this ballpark and in any rotation, really…
I’d much rather Hurley succeed, because he was homegrown from day one. but what about giving Feldman the spot over Hurley for now, allowing him to build up again for the first 2 months, and then trading Millwood or Padilla and letting Hurley in, then trading the other and letting Holland in?
I’d LOVE to see an end of the year rotation of McCarthy, Harrison, Feldman, Holland, Hurley…with Feliz replacing Feldman in 2009
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 2, 2008 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would think that Hurley and Harrison and maybe even Feldman will compete for the spot(s). If Hurley looks like he’s better than Harrison in the spring, I would bet he’d get the 5th spot at least.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 2, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gabbard
Wouldn’t Gabbard be a fit for a LOOGY or is he destined to start in AAA? If the pitching is set, then the only question remains is what is the club going to do about 3B.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Dec 2, 2008 12:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
actually
i completely forgot about him. I definitely think the Rangers are committed to moving him to the bullpen, and he fits the loogy profile.
by clark on Dec 2, 2008 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably starts in OKC
Needs to get used to working out of the bullpen.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 2, 2008 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gabbard
Connor said he takes too long to warm up to work as a reliever.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Dec 2, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he didn’t know what he was talking about. Go with it.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Dec 2, 2008 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whose this Connor you speak of?
This is all Maddux’s team now!
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Dec 2, 2008 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mark Connor
he was the pitching coach last year
by Mike E on Dec 2, 2008 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whooooossssshhhhhhhhhh
That was the sound of sarcasm screaming past your brainpan!
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Dec 2, 2008 5:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps he was confused
by the whose/who’s mixup.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 2, 2008 8:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
rotation
I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. I wish the cavalry would get here already.
"You’re the only here who contributes schtick only." - brettgardner
by trza on Dec 2, 2008 12:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I wish I could slip into a coma and wake up in 5 years
when the rotation is something to get excited about:
Feliz
Holland
Main
Beavan
M. Perez
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Dec 2, 2008 1:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
By that time
those names will have been traded away or will have washed out, and there will be some more A ball names.
Nolan Ryan is the Greatest Pitcher ever, because Google says so.
"BTW I’m officially welching ab03. Yeah I planned too all along, but I figured I’d try to get off the hook with double or nothing first."- Sharky
by DJCahill on Dec 2, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who had 1:17
in the pool?
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 2, 2008 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
After a few more cycles of A ball washouts, we’ll all be dead too.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 2, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
or at least
we might wish we were.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 2, 2008 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Two things
I really think they can obtain a young starting pitcher worth having for a catcher, whether it’s Tea or Saltalamacchia.
Even with Feldman’s options situation, will they start him over Hurley? Who has the longer track record…the career starter with a few ML starts, or the guy with a fairly successful recent ML starting campaign?
I’d also rather develop Hurley considering their ages. Maybe Hurley starts in OKC for his own good, though.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Dec 2, 2008 1:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Feldman
Yes he will start over Hurley. Hes only gonna be 26 next year so its not like hes approaching 30 and just became a starter. Hurley has 2 option years left. With all the talent coming up the next few years we are going to have to get used to seeing guys with talent being sent to the minors. Theres only 5 starter spots available. And unless we get rid of Padilla, Millwood, and Feldman they have 3 of those next year.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 2, 2008 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
2009 rotation
My rotation barring injuries or trades…
Millwood, Padilla, McCarthy, Harrison, Hurley
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Dec 2, 2008 1:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
What do you do with Feldman?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 2, 2008 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bullpen
He could be the 6th starter or middle reliever. I am wary of all the innings he threw last year. I also think he has reached his ceiling. Let Hurley take his lumps in 2009 and become a dependable starter in 2010.
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Dec 2, 2008 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OK
So then what do you do with Nippert?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 2, 2008 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nippert?
Really not that worried.
He’s not the kind of pitcher that good teams use unless forced.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
How many guys can throw high 90s heat on our ballclub right now?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 2, 2008 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not enough strikes, Big Steve.
Walks waaaaay too many batters to ever be successful.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
8 man bullpen
Wilson, Francisco, Feldman, Madrigal, Rupe, Benoit, Nippert, ????
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Dec 2, 2008 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's pretty unfair
seeing as how it was his first year starting and he didn’t even start out as a starter in spring training…or did he…? either way, his first year starting at the major league level
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 2, 2008 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You throw Feldman in the Bullpen?
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Dec 2, 2008 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Feldman
is going to be injured after all those innings last year.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 2, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gagree.
Feldman helped out quite a bit last year but I don’t believe he’s any kind of long term answer on a team that’s really good.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So what would you do with him?
Get rid of him? Throw him in the bullpen? Trade him?
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Dec 2, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Until some of the others are ready
I hold my nose and roll with him as long as he can pitch like he did last year.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Dec 2, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course, many said the same thing about CY after his first full season....
but he seems to have turned out OK. His entire first year, I remember thinking “smoke and mirrors; the next time around the lineup they’ll kill him” every game. I see the same sort of developmental promise in Feldman, although I doubt his ceiling is quite as high.
by bking on Dec 2, 2008 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is what I'd like to see.
I look for improvement out of all three of the young guys next season. And as long as Millwood and Pads can eat up innings and get you a 4.50 ERA, I think we’ll be okay.
by Athos on Dec 2, 2008 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, just a quick question
But does anyone mind Hurley starting in the bullpen and working out of there for some time, getting experience in the majors and then, when an injury or a trade happens in the rotation, just move him into the starting rotation?
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Dec 2, 2008 1:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yes I mind
He is a starter. He got his feet wet last year in the majors. Let him go down to OKC and fine tune things down there and be ready to come up when needed. Now if we haven’t had any injuries by say July and we are in a race for a playoff position then maybe consider it. But until then he needs to be staying on a starters schedule and getting ready to step into a spot when needed.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 2, 2008 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the new it in the Majors
Is letting your young starters start in the bullpen and work from there. Joba did it, and now Price is doing it. It would be good to get his feet wet in the majors
And I’m not taking a side in putting him the in pen or in the minors. I just want to see everyone’s opinion of it
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Dec 2, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ask Weaver
how “new” that idea is…
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Dec 2, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He already got his feet wet
He had 5 starts last year. If he was an absolute stud then maybe I could see using him in the bullpen. Or if we had 5 veteran starters I could see him being used in the pen. But as it is he has had ML exposure and didn’t have a great year last year in the minors anyway. He needs more time and can stay focused on starting as opposed to not knowing when he will pitch.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 2, 2008 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's the case
with the dominant types on teams that have good starters ahead of them.
Hurley is not a dominant type. and our team is hardly blocked by 5 GOOD starters
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 2, 2008 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Dec 2, 2008 9:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i would be more okay with it
if we had five guys who i really believe to be better than him in the rotation. I would love to see Feldman and Harrison continue to progress, but they just don’t have very good stuff, at least when I saw them. This team finally has guys with legitimate upside reaching the brink, so I struggle with the idea of “settling” on a rotation full of back end guys. I would much rather see guys like Hurley and Holland go out there and cut their teeth when they are deemed ML ready, which I believe to be now-ish.
by clark on Dec 2, 2008 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i'd rather they just trade Millwood/Padilla
since neither of them will be in Arlington in 2010 anyways and open up 5 spots.
Try to figure out which guys will be capable starters (even if they’ll just be back-of-the-rotation guys). The economy sucks, and the team will suck, but if they could just find 2-3 of the 10-12 guys (Harrison, Hurley, Feliz, Holland, Hunter, McCarthy, Feldman, Mendoza, Nippert, Murray, Mathis, and Gabbard) that seem like they are somewhat capable of having an outside chance of even being a #4 or #5, then it will be worth it and they could fill in the rotation at the top with FAs or trades of prospects next offseason.
Start off with Hurley, Harrison, McCarthy, Feldman, and Gabbard. Next priorities go to Nippert, Hunter, Holland, Feliz, Mendoza, Murray, and Mathis.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Dec 2, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and yes, it would probably be the worst pitching staff ever assembled
but I’d much rather some of these guys get their lumps now rather than wait until they are asked to do it with the expectations of “we’re in a pennant race and we need you to be a solid #4 for us down the stretch even though you only have 15 career starts.”
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Dec 2, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Only problem with that rotation
Is that you have no veteran leadership at all. You really shouldn’t take this young of a rotation out there and expect them to lead your ballclub. None of these pitchers have been pitching in the majors for more than 2 years, so there would be huge worries with them
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Dec 2, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if Maddux is as good as we're paying him...
we won’t need a veteran pitcher coaching them…
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 2, 2008 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hurley & Harrison.
Does anybody have faith that these two young pitchers will improve next season?
From the sound of the early comments in this thread, it doesn’t seem like it.
by Athos on Dec 2, 2008 1:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It sounds like...
…everyone thinks every pitcher above AA is going to get injured or suck.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 2, 2008 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Understandable
given the last couple seasons. I think the pitching will be better in 2009 simply because they can’t all be that unhealthy again.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 2, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, at least with Nolan's approach ...
Millwood might not be so fat ….
by Athos on Dec 2, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's Big Boned! Damn it!!!
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on Dec 2, 2008 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but now that we fired Connor ...
the freak injuries ought to be less frequent, right? I sure as hell hope so.
by Athos on Dec 2, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
cant be any worse, right?
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on Dec 2, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
heh
well, as Rangers fans, we don’t have many pitchers that have come up above AA that have been healthy or any good. It’s almost a I’ll believe it when I see it thing.
But, I think it’s incredibly pessimistic to think Hurley/Harrison have already hit their ceiling.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 2, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True
We really haven’t developed a solid starting pitcher in the organization in some time. So we can be worried about every pitcher in the minors above AA basically
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Dec 2, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
We’ve developed them, but they’ve gone elsewhere to perform.
I think Hurley/Harrison are on the right track though. I just hope that if they’re given the chance, that they are given a real opportunity — and not just shipped back to AAA if they have 3 bad starts in a row.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 2, 2008 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not true
although, as Rangers fans, perhaps we have been conditioned to expect that. I just think there are a healthy number of skeptics regarding Feldman’s ability to even reproduce his numbers last year, let alone improve upon them, and Harrison’s ability to get the most out of his stuff.
by clark on Dec 2, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Diamond (injury), Benoit (bad as starter), CJ Wilson (bad as starter), McCarthy (injury)
and many more are the recent names that generate this kind of sentiment. So you can’t blame everybody for that feeling.
I am usually very optimistic though…if we could somehow see a full year out of McCarthy and get Diamond back on track, I’d be VERY happy with 2009. And I honestly think Harrison is going to be a very decent pitcher for us next year and a very reliable # 3 type down the road. I’m sold on him…he needs to get those peripherals back to his minor league numbers, but I’m sold on him. And Hurley looked very good when healthy. It’s just that health question that will remain, I think he’ll get better and better if he’s playing and learning.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 2, 2008 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is there a track record to prove
otherwise?
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Dec 2, 2008 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
for the record
Are you happy with that rotation?
"You’re the only here who contributes schtick only." - brettgardner
by trza on Dec 2, 2008 4:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
because that is what they have always done over the last decade
http://rangers.scottlucas.com/
scroll down to the 11/25 table.
In memory of Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner. RIP Lil Stoner.
by tricer on Dec 2, 2008 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hurley & Harrison
I expect improvement from both, but more from Hurley than Harrison
by thedudeabides on Dec 2, 2008 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OT - Daily Show on Plaxico Burress
Might as well laugh while thinking about our rotation
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Dec 2, 2008 2:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Usually
…when a team has terrible pitching like the Rangers do, you really have no idea what the staff will look like in early December. It’s odd.
by Black Francis on Dec 2, 2008 2:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't sound like
a playoff rotation to me. Realistically, if Hurley, Harrison, or McCarthy can establish themselves as a good pitcher, the season is a success.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Dec 2, 2008 2:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Nobody did...
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Dec 2, 2008 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
then why do you say it doesn't sound like a playoff rotation
everyone knows we arent gonna make the playoffs
by Save us on Dec 2, 2008 5:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Umm
Realistically, if Hurley, Harrison, or McCarthy can establish themselves as a good pitcher, the season is a success.
English Comp, catch the fevah!
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Dec 2, 2008 6:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yep
another bad pitching year and another losing record
by Save us on Dec 2, 2008 3:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
yep
another bad comment and another screen name to come soon im sure
by Michael Cave on Dec 2, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
pwned!
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Dec 2, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Dec 2, 2008 9:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i already have another one
and how is our pitching gonna get better if we still have the same horrible pitchers
by Save us on Dec 2, 2008 5:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Where Are They Now
Has Thomas Diamond just disappeared…seems like he should be back from his TJ surgery. Seems like he might be a bp candidate. Also, anyone know what happened to Matt Riley, is he gone now or still rehabbing somewhere.
Foolish consistency is the hobgobblin of little minds - Emerson
by RangerEddie on Dec 2, 2008 4:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Random Trade Proposal of the Day
Aaron Heilman for German Duran, anyone?
"Yeah, like I had a chance there" - Lancaster batter, after striking out against Derek Holland
by chrisR on Dec 2, 2008 4:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Haha
This is an exciting time in my life.
The LSB CPP's are in full bloom.
by Chase Irwin on Dec 4, 2008 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I see this
as not being set in stone, at all.
The Rangers will go into spring training with an open competition for the three slots below kevin and vicente…
I expect all of the following to be in the running…
Matt
Dustin
Eric
Scott
Derrick
Brandon
Tommy
All will be given equal chance to prove themselves.
I expect the opening day rotation will be
Kevin
Vicente
Scott
Brandon
Matt
But it is NOT set in stone.
Its time...
by PM Productions on Dec 2, 2008 5:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't aware I was in the running for a starting pitchers' job
I should start working out or something.
by Black Francis on Dec 2, 2008 5:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Its alot easier to use last names
I had to actually think for a second on some of those
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 2, 2008 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i really dont see
how Eric Hurley doesnt find a spot in the Rotation when he’s completely healthy.
by blalock84 on Dec 2, 2008 5:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
x
All will be given equal chance to prove themselves.
I certainly hope that won’t be the case.
Giving everyone an equal chance to prove themselves implies is how we end up with Matt Kata on the opening day roster, Jerry Hairston Jr. as a semi-regular CF’er, and Marlon Byrd in AAA.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 2, 2008 7:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Some players' evaluations deserve priority
don’t you think?
For instance, I’d like to see what Brandon McCarthy offers before I roll with the Tommy Hunters of the world. Granted, B-Mac may somehow have turned into a total flop, but with the talent he once possessed, he deserves a proper ML eval.
This is an exciting time in my life.
The LSB CPP's are in full bloom.
by Chase Irwin on Dec 4, 2008 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess
I just don’t see how that was the reason Byrd went to AAA or Kata made the roster. That seems more attributable to bad decisions than “giving everyone a chance.”
by brettgardner on Dec 4, 2008 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh...
They’re still shitty.
If the Rangers don’t aquire another pitcher I’d rather they plug Hurley into the rotation and replace Eyre in the ’pen with Feldman.
The only thing that gives me some hope are Harrison and Hurley. I think they can improve and I really hope they show that they can be reliable back of the rotation type guys this year.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Dec 2, 2008 5:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure about Feldman in the starting rotation
and its not because I dont like Scooter because I surely do. Its just that he threw so many innings in 08 as compared to 07 that I am not sure how effective he will be in 09
by BEW on Dec 2, 2008 6:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Braden Looper was pretty successful
And he is older than Feldman. Im not worried about him. Hes had a full offseason to recharge his batteries. Yeah late last year I was a little worried but after a full offseason I have no problems trusting Feldman.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 2, 2008 6:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I will continue...
to doubt Feldman, to some degree, and hope he continues to prove me wrong.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Dec 2, 2008 6:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
People will keep doubting him
and he will keep proving them wrong. The pitching version of Michael Young :D
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 2, 2008 8:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pitching Staff
Based on Adam’s Staff, what do we do with Hurley or Gabbard ?
by nathan_sassaman on Dec 2, 2008 6:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Both in OKC
Hurley in the rotation, Gabbard in the pen
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 2, 2008 6:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't mind Gabbard in the OKC rotation
Let him be ready in case we deal with a ton of injuries again. It would certainly be better to use Gabbard than rush Holland or something like that.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 2, 2008 8:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Feldman and the rotation.
I really don’t get this. Granted he was not a total disaster in our hodge podge rotation last season, but he wasn’t very good either. As a starter he posted a pretty bad 5.18 ERA; he only struck out 68 batters in 144.1 innings while walking 52 and giving up more than a hit per inning. That is not a great combination for a starter.
Feldman needs to go back to the pen as the long man/emergency starter, and should only be used in the rotation if everyone else gets hurt or flames out.
by Athos on Dec 2, 2008 6:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Feldman
Had Washington used him, and more importantly pulled him, properly his numbers would have been alot better. I don’t have them in front of me right now but I looked at them during the season and it was staggering. If you subtract the last inning or partial inning he pitched from each start his ERA would have been under 4. His ERA in that inning or part of an inning was like 20 something. It was obvious he wasn’t used to being stretched out.
Even if he is just a mediocre bottom of the rotation guy he looks to be a guy who will eat innings and take the bump every 5 days. And at 26 years old there is still room for improvement. You have to give him that chance and thats what options are for. Hurleys got them Feldman doesn’t. Hurley starts in OKC and if someone gets hurt or Harrison, BMac, or Feldman falter Hurley can step in.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 2, 2008 7:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not just that
but the bullpen IIRC screwed him pretty badly. I’m sure it wasn’t as bad as I think, but it felt like it was always Feldman coming out in the middle of the inning with a runner or two on and the bullpen would let every runner score.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 2, 2008 8:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome.
I can’t wait for the front-page fanpost in late March which will systematically detail all the “ifs” that have to go right for this team to be “good.”
meet me at the mawwl... it's goin dowwn...
by oc on Dec 2, 2008 8:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Starting pitchers
It was about this time last year that it seemed like the majority on here wanted to dfa Feldman and he turned out to be a decent 5th starter.
I’d be willing to bet that either or both of Harrison or Hurley puts up 180IP with solid middle of the rotation numbers.
by Randy Richardson on Dec 2, 2008 8:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'll take that bet
I’m drooling, too.
by Black Francis on Dec 2, 2008 9:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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