LSB Community Prospect Project: Wrap-Up
by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 4:27 PM CST
194 comments
Sorry about the delay getting this up. I got sort of busy all the sudden and it slipped my mind to do the wrap-up with the final list.
After 301 votes, Carlos Pimentel has won the coveted last place on our little list here and is now the LSB Community #30 prospect!
And now we are done!
The Final List:
1. LHP, Derek Holland
2. RHP, Neftali Feliz
3. 1b, Justin Smoak
4. RHP, Michael Main
5. SS, Elvis Andrus
6. C, Taylor Teagarden
7. C, Maximiliano Ramirez
8. LHP, Martin Perez
9. OF, Julio Borbon
10. RHP, Eric Hurley
11. OF, Engel Beltre
12. RHP, Blake Beavan
13. RHP, Wilfredo Boscan
14. RHP, Neil Ramirez
15. LHP, Kasey Kiker
16. 2b, Jose Vallejo
17. RHP, Wilmer Font
18. RHP, Omar Poveda
19. LHP, Robbie Ross
20. RHP, Tommy Hunter
21. RHP, Thomas Diamond
22. RHP, Joe Wieland
23. LHP, Tim Murphy (Tie)
23. OF, Greg Golson (Tie)
25. RHP, Warner Madrigal
26. SS, Marcus Lemon
27. RHP, Kennil Gomez
28. RHP, Pedro Strop
29. 1b/OF/LHP, Mitch Moreland
30. RHP, Carlos Pimentel
(Click on any name to see the vote where he won.)
So... what do y'all think about this list?
Who's too high?
Too low?
Who are the guys we should feel like idiots for leaving off?
Who's gonna be shooting up the list next year?
And, as always, make sure to add your own personal top prospect lists in the comments. It's always a lot of fun and it's pretty cool to be able to look back in a year or two and see how smart/dumb you were about certain guys.
Finally, a big thanks to everyone who voted and participated this year. I always have a blast doing these and it would kind of suck without everyone voting and arguing like hell in the comments.
See ya again at mid-season ;)
8 recs |
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This is kind of funny.
There’s only one similarity (Smoak @ 3) between my rankings and the community project.
1. Feliz
2. Holland
3. Smoak
4. Andrus
5. Main
6. Perez
7. Beltre
8. Teagarden
9. Max Ramirez
10. Neil Ramirez
11. Borbon
12. Boscan
13. Font
14. Beavan
15. Hurley
16. Ross
17. Kiker
18. Tim Murphy
19. Diamond
20. Weiland
21. Poveda
22. Vallejo
23. Kennil Gomez
24. Madrigal
25. Pimentel
26. Strop
27. Hunter
28. Lemon
29. Clark Murphy
30. Golson
I think Moscoso would go somewhere between 19-23.
by LiamP on Dec 20, 2008 4:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Dirk,
To me these rankings are so much fun!!!!! It drags on at the end, but still, these are my favorite community activity around here.
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Dec 20, 2008 4:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well, past about prospect 20
you are saying the guy is probably not a major leaguer, or he’s too young to have much of a track record. There aren’t many franchises that have real prospects past about 10 or so, unless they are too young to pop up on the radar yet.
Nolan Ryan is the Greatest Pitcher ever, because Google says so.
"BTW I’m officially welching ab03. Yeah I planned too all along, but I figured I’d try to get off the hook with double or nothing first."- Sharky
by DJCahill on Dec 22, 2008 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Based on Sickels' rankings,
Do you think we over value guys like Perez and Main?
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Dec 20, 2008 4:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps on Main (I have him 7th, fwiw).
But Perez is 8th on our community list, which is actually a good deal lower than BA (5th).
The guy is almost assured of a spot on BA’s prestigious top 100 list this spring.
I don’t think we’re too high on him at all.
Sickels just looks for different things. He grades pretty hard on young projectable types. It all depends on what you’re looking for, I suppose.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 5:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
graded Inoa at #9 in the A’s system I think. He likes guys with at least one skin on the wall. With Main, I think we are putting a lot of stock in his fall lg performace. A lot of people are going to look really smart this time next year or just plain wrong in regards to main.
by Michael Cave on Dec 21, 2008 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My list if I had to do it in fifteen minutes...
In honor of my favorite professional athlete ever, I present my top 41.
1. LHP, Derek Holland
2. RHP, Neftali Feliz
3. 1b, Justin Smoak
4. SS, Elvis Andrus
5. C, Max Ramirez
6. CF, Julio Borbon
7. RHP, Michael Main
8. LHP, Martin Perez
9. C, Taylor Teagarden
10. RHP, Blake “c1” Beavan
11. RHP, Eric Hurley
12. CF, Engel Beltre
13. LHP, Kasey Kiker
14. RHP, Thomas Diamond
15. RHP, Neil Ramirez
16. RHP, Wilfredo Boscan
17. RHP, Wilmer Font
18. RHP, Tommy Hunter
19. RHP, Robbie Ross
20. SS/2b, Marcus Lemon
21. LHP, Robbie Ross
22. RHP, Omar Poveda
23. RHP, Warner Madrigal
24. 2b, Jose Vallejo
25. 1b/OF, Clark Murphy
26. LHP, Tim Murphy
27. RHP, Guillermo Moscoso
28. RHP, Joe Wieland
29. CF, Greg Golson
30. C/COF, Cristian Santana
31. RHP, Pedro Strop
32. RHP, Kennil Gomez
33. 3b, Matt West
34. C, Tomas Telis
35. RHP, Carlos Melo
36. RHP, Fabio Castillo
37. 3b, Johnny Whittleman
38. SS, Joaquin Arias
39. RHP, Carlos Pimentel
40. 1b/COF/LHP, Mitch Moreland
41. LHP, Miguel de los Santos
It gets murky once you get into the late teen and into the twenties, and downright ridiculous in the 30’s and 40’s. Most of those guys are pretty interchangeable, with only gut feelings on my part to differentiate between them.
There’s a lot of talent not on that list, too. Beau Jones, Tim Smith, Eric Fry, Esdras Abreu, Edwin Escobar, Juan Polanco, Zach Phillips, Renny Osuna, Kyle O’Campo, Jake Brigham, Macumba, Manny Pina, Leury Garcia, Richard Bleier, Joseph Ortiz, Juan Grullon, Geuris Grullon, etc, etc, etc…
And I reserve the right to change that 5 minutes from now, especially if left someone off, which I probably did.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 5:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Good job
that’s a good list.
My only issue would be Kennil Gomez i suppose, but i guess that also adds to how deep our system is…
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
by Longhorn on Dec 20, 2008 5:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Robbie Ross
On there twice.
You must love him. A lot.
A noob or n00b is someone that lacks intellegance or common sense, most people think that noob is a word used only in the online gaming world, but in reality it is becoming an ever popular word with teenage society.
a noob could be simply a level 100 running round shouting ‘’WTF DO I GO!?’’ or someone calling someone else a noob and then getting hit with a brick, anyone can call anyone a noob, but normally they are noobs themselves
-robert_d_wilfong
by cwhitman412 on Dec 20, 2008 5:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And!
One’s a lefty, one’s a righty!
A noob or n00b is someone that lacks intellegance or common sense, most people think that noob is a word used only in the online gaming world, but in reality it is becoming an ever popular word with teenage society.
a noob could be simply a level 100 running round shouting ‘’WTF DO I GO!?’’ or someone calling someone else a noob and then getting hit with a brick, anyone can call anyone a noob, but normally they are noobs themselves
-robert_d_wilfong
by cwhitman412 on Dec 20, 2008 5:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
that’s awesome, i missed that completely skimming through it at first…
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
by Longhorn on Dec 20, 2008 5:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, very hilarious.
Hmmm… I wonder what happened, though. I was changing the order a little and must’ve changed him with someone.
The question is, did I just list him twice, or did I leave someone off the list I meant to put into one of those spots?
Who knows.
Looking at it, he should be right below Lemon. Don’t know how he ended up in that 19th spot as a RHP. Weird.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lemon over Vallejo is ridiculous
Wait 'til the year after next
by NothinG on Dec 21, 2008 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Amongst the "etc, etc, etc..."
Anyenil Mendoza – According to Dominican Summer League Manager Jayce Tingler, the now 19-year-old hits 94-95 MPH with his fastball and has a good curveball.
Kelvin De Leon – If you search the web for him, you’ll probably come across a very promising outfielder for the Yankees. But the Rangers’ De Leon, a 6’6 right-handed pitcher, put up some good numbers as well.
Guillermo Pimentel – I wouldn’t be surprised if posters have to start differentiating between Rangers’ prospects named “Pimentel.”
"Alright class. Now that I've explained how silly the theory of evloution is, and how it's impossible for a specie to change over time, let's refocus on the Bible. I'd like to direct your attention to Genesis. Okay, now here's how the snake lost his voice..."
by YourNameHere on Dec 20, 2008 8:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One more...
Edwin Garcia – He’s listed at 6’0 and 150 lbs. I wonder if he’ll develop some power once they start feeding him.
"Alright class. Now that I've explained how silly the theory of evloution is, and how it's impossible for a specie to change over time, let's refocus on the Bible. I'd like to direct your attention to Genesis. Okay, now here's how the snake lost his voice..."
by YourNameHere on Dec 20, 2008 8:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
funny i just posted this on the MJH MIF thread:
2 other guys to watch
Edward Martinez, 2b, had a very good debut for AZL, and Edwin Garcia (ss) who hit .290 in his debut for DSL1. Garcia hit .260 in June and then put up this line in July and August: 41g/.310/.431obp/.788ops/5db/1trp/14rbi/7of9sb/25bb/19so. That line looks very similar to telis save for the gap power.
I’m also intersted to see how Lawson bounces back from a poor second half. He had good reviews after his debut in SS 07 (.300) looking like a good hitter for ave and power for his position but dropped off a cliff after the ASB this year.
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
by Goyogringo on Dec 21, 2008 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it has already happened:)
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
by Goyogringo on Dec 21, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
er, the pimentel thing
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
by Goyogringo on Dec 21, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Darn...
At first I thought you meant that the Rangers had started feeding Edwin Garcia :)
"Alright class. Now that I've explained how silly the theory of evloution is, and how it's impossible for a specie to change over time, let's refocus on the Bible. I'd like to direct your attention to Genesis. Okay, now here's how the snake lost his voice..."
by YourNameHere on Dec 21, 2008 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good start on your website...
Your prospect list is very good. Extremely comprehensive.
"Alright class. Now that I've explained how silly the theory of evloution is, and how it's impossible for a specie to change over time, let's refocus on the Bible. I'd like to direct your attention to Genesis. Okay, now here's how the snake lost his voice..."
by YourNameHere on Dec 21, 2008 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
we are lucky as rangers fans to have SO SO SO many options out there
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 21, 2008 4:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
question:
where do you get your info on these guys from? just looking at DSL stats/reading jayce tingler stuff or other ways
also, i have been wondering what you think of melo…
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 21, 2008 4:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know on Carlos Melo...
I haven’t found anything on Carlos Melo. The information I had was from an article that Jayce Tingler, the Rangers’ Dominican Summer League manager, gave with Jason Cole for Scout.com. Scout.com also does pretty frequent posts on all of the Rangers’ Minor League affiliates’ games, and I’d read a few pieces on Anyenil Mendoza’s performances through them.
"Alright class. Now that I've explained how silly the theory of evloution is, and how it's impossible for a specie to change over time, let's refocus on the Bible. I'd like to direct your attention to Genesis. Okay, now here's how the snake lost his voice..."
by YourNameHere on Dec 21, 2008 11:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
good find on Anyenil
do you have a link? He was an invite to instructs so the rangers see something in him. He had a nice dsl debut in 07 and improved his #s during his 2nd dsl stint but nothing mind-blowing. He may have been injured for a brief stint as his IP were reduced. Before I saw those velo #s I suggested that his limited improvement might suggest a possible bullpen guy down the road but maybe his injury and further improvement this fall will lead to something more.
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
by Goyogringo on Dec 21, 2008 4:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
On Anyenil Mendoza...
Scout.com: Lone Star Dugout Q&A: Jayce Tingler (Part 2)
I think it requires a subscription to read, but Jayce Tingler, the Rangers Dominican Summer League Manager said in this August 19th, 2008 that “he’s (Anyenil Mendoza) 94-95 with a really good secondary curveball. He’s working on his changeup right now. He is very explosive.”
I don’t want to right any more because, as I said, I think it’s behind a wall.
"Alright class. Now that I've explained how silly the theory of evloution is, and how it's impossible for a specie to change over time, let's refocus on the Bible. I'd like to direct your attention to Genesis. Okay, now here's how the snake lost his voice..."
by YourNameHere on Dec 21, 2008 11:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
errr....
I meant “I don’t want to write any more…”
Normally I don’t correct my spelling/grammar errors, but that was awful.
"Alright class. Now that I've explained how silly the theory of evloution is, and how it's impossible for a specie to change over time, let's refocus on the Bible. I'd like to direct your attention to Genesis. Okay, now here's how the snake lost his voice..."
by YourNameHere on Dec 22, 2008 1:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
New, one-Robbie Ross edition:
In honor of my favorite professional athlete ever, I present my top 41.
1. LHP, Derek Holland
2. RHP, Neftali Feliz
3. 1b, Justin Smoak
4. SS, Elvis Andrus
5. C, Max Ramirez
6. CF, Julio Borbon
7. RHP, Michael Main
8. LHP, Martin Perez
9. C, Taylor Teagarden
10. RHP, Blake "c1" Beavan
11. RHP, Eric Hurley
12. CF, Engel Beltre
13. LHP, Kasey Kiker
14. RHP, Thomas Diamond
15. RHP, Neil Ramirez
16. RHP, Wilfredo Boscan
17. RHP, Wilmer Font
18. RHP, Omar Poveda
19. LHP, Robbie Ross
20. RHP, Tommy Hunter
21. SS/2b, Marcus Lemon
22. RHP, Warner Madrigal
23. 2b, Jose Vallejo
24. 1b/OF, Clark Murphy
25. LHP, Tim Murphy
26. RHP, Guillermo Moscoso
27. RHP, Joe Wieland
28. C/COF, Cristian Santana
29. CF, Greg Golson
30. RHP, Pedro Strop
31. RHP, Kennil Gomez
32. RHP, Carlos Melo
33. 3b, Matt West
34. C, Tomas Telis
35. RHP, Fabio Castillo
36. 3b, Johnny Whittleman
37. SS, Joaquin Arias
38. RHP, Carlos Pimentel
39. LHP, Miguel de los Santos
40. 1b/COF/LHP, Mitch Moreland
41. LHP, Beau Jones
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jan 2, 2009 10:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My top 30.
1. Justin Smoak
2. Derek Holland
3. Neftali Feliz
4. Michael Main
5. Elvis Andrus
6. Martin Perez
7. Engel Beltre
8. Julio Borbon
9. Max Ramirez
10. Taylor Teagarden
11. Blake Beaven
12. Kasey Kiker
13. Neil Ramirez
14. Jose Vallejo
15. Robbie Ross
16. Wilfredo Boscan
17. Wilmer Font
18. Mitch Moreland
19. Kennil Gomez
20. Clark Murphy
21. Eric Hurley
22. Joe Wieland
23. Greg Golson
24. Warner Madrigal
25. Omar Poveda
26. Thomas Diamond
27. Fabio Castillo
28. Tommy Hunter
29. Tim Murphy
30. Pedro Strop
I guess you heard Fat Joe left Atlantic.
by Haeger Champ on Dec 20, 2008 6:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Too Low:
Perez
Font
Too High:
Golson
by Brett Perryman on Dec 20, 2008 6:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
When do we get to gaze in wonder at the Zwyica list?
I’m interested to see what our resident prospector has to say.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I posted one
a week or so ago
by Brett Perryman on Dec 20, 2008 6:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here it is, from two weeks ago
wouldn’t be surprised if I would change a couple of things already.
http://www.lonestarball.com/2008/12/4/679590/lsb-community-prospect-pro#10465380
Tonight 1. Neftali Feliz
2. Justin Smoak
3. Derek Holland
4. Elvis Andrus
5. Martin Perez
6. Michael Main
7. Taylor Teagarden
8. Max Ramirez
9. Eric Hurley
10. Blake Beavan
11. Wilmer Font
12. Julio Borbon
13. Engel Beltre
14. Neil Ramirez
15. Robbie Ross
16. Wilfredo Boscan
17. Kasey Kiker
18. Joe Wieland
19. Tim Murphy
20. Jose Vallejo
First of all, I think the top three are pretty much a dead heat, so I’m by no means meaning to slight Holland. I’d just like to keep seeing 96s into next season before I’m quite as confident in him as Smoak.
And Tommy Hunter should really be on there somewhere, but I just don’t think the upside is there, and I’ll take what upside each of these guys offer over the certainty of a usable but probably very replaceable major leaguer (hopefully that comment will come back to bite me).
by Brett Perryman on Dec 20, 2008 6:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So 6 is too low for Perez?
If things have changed, are you saying he is #4 or higher for you now?
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 20, 2008 9:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Eight is too low
The community rankings have him at 8, not 6. To me, Perez and Main area tier above the catchers.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 20, 2008 9:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My bad
I thought you were responding to Haeger Champ. I definitely agree about Main.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 20, 2008 9:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Borbon and Beltre
not till 12 and 13? Boscan after Ross?
by groundingout on Dec 21, 2008 10:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting, especially on Font and Wieland.
Where do you have Golson, btw?
Top 30? 35?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Dec 21, 2008 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
around 30 probably for me. It’s not like there is a zero percent chance that he’ll keep improving his approach and pitch recognition to the point that he’s a nice player, but I just don’t think that you can bet on that over a whole handful of thes good arms. If he doesn’t, maybe he’s a major leaguer, but he offers little value above your off the street type. I think that guys like Murphy, Madrigal, Strop and Pimentel all offer a better chance of being nice pitchers.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 21, 2008 5:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tools guys
I haven’t done a study on this, but it seems to me that of the 30% or so Top100 prospects who fail to become league average or better major leaguers, 70% fail due to injuries and 30% fail because they were good athletes but poor baseball players.
by spurdynasty on Dec 21, 2008 9:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
X
Too Low:
strop
Too high
lemon
moreland
boscan
Moscoso #14
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
by Goyogringo on Dec 20, 2008 6:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
My 2 cents
1. Smoak – Teix who?
2. Feliz – Unbelievable FB.
3. Holland – Can he sustain what he did last year?
4. Main – I liked him better than Beaven when drafted.
5. Teagarden – Ranked this high due to his defensive and leadership value to Rangers.
6. Andrus – Will be a solid ML SS for 10+ years.
7. Hurley – Will be solid #4 Rangers SP until traded.
8. MaxRam – DH?
9. Borbon – Will hit leadoff in 2010?
10. Kiker – I think he will surprise in 2009.
11. Perez
12. Beavan
13. Boscan
14. Ramirez
15. Beltre – All potential. What does he excel at?
16. Ross
17. Vallejo – Utility IF or trade bait?
18. Diamond – Will be a solid reliever.
19. Hunter – SP or eventual reliever?
20. Moreland – Look at my signature. :)
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Dec 20, 2008 6:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Here's a question
that really deals with the the thread GOgo made a few days ago:
Who on this list has the greatest breakout potential and who has the greatest collapse potential?
by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Um, those are basically the questions I asked up top in the diary I thought, but okay I'll play.
Greatest collapse potential:
Derek Holland. Man I love the guy and all the statistical signs point to him being legit as fuck and here to stay… but the rocket ride to the top just leaves me a bit wary. Personally I like him to continue on like this, but the fact that he’s our #1 overall prospect and has only one truly good year under his belt means he has the greatest chance to fall the furthest, imo.
Greatest breakout potential:
Wilmer Font. If he can get healthy and step out onto a full season mound this year I have a feeling he’s gonna make his 17th overall ranking on this list look silly. He’s got monster stuff and still has some projectabilty left too. I could really see him topping this list next year. I think it’s a long shot, but it could happen.
And now what are yours?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 7:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I phrased it poorly
what I mean by breakout is not an overwhelming, awesome performance, but a guy like German Duran circa 2007, where he hit really well, but got more attention because 1) He now played 2B and 2) He did it at a higher level.
by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 7:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What do you call
Hollands 2008 season? Or Hunters?
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Dec 20, 2008 7:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I call Holland's 2008
a giant rise in Velocity and a better breaking ball. See, I see a difference between progress (such as added velocity or better breaking stuff or better control or stronger, more power, more speed, more discipline) and.., I guess hype is the word (such as a good player playing at a more demanding position getting more prospect points).
by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 7:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if I can single out one guy, but
I think the best candidates are:
Clark Murphy
Johnny Whittleman
Chad Tracy
Engel Beltre
Matt West
Cristian Santana
and a whole slew of pitchers
by Brett Perryman on Dec 20, 2008 7:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
By that criteria... Johnny Whittleman.
If he plays even passable defense and can raise his contract rate even a little… that plate discipline of his is absolutely top notch. I don’t know if I buy MJH’s “selective hitters sometimes do better at the higher levels cause they’re facing pitches to select from”, but there’s definitely some breakout potential from him in Frisco next year.
But I think Font could qualify under this criteria, too, if he 1) Takes the mound as a starter, and 2) pitches in actual full season leagues (or Spokane, even).
Or am I wrong on both counts and you’re limiting this only to guys who change position?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 7:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Those are my choices
but Font may not happen quickly enough to really qualify as a huge breakout.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 20, 2008 7:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Personally
I think Elvis Andrus is the biggest risk to be passed over simply for that fact that he hasn’t made as much progress as we’d all assigned to him. I think there’s a legitimate chance he gets a .750ish OPS in AAA and suddenly goes to the 60s in terms of top 60 prospects.
I think, conversely, a guy like Mitch Moreland or Renny Osuna can really rise with similar seasons if they played RF and 3B, respectively.
by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 7:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't call that a collapse, though.
As long as the D stays stellar I could give a crap if he OPS’s .750 next year in AAA and has all the national guys downgrading him into the 60’s of their listy-lists.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 7:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe bypass potential
but that doesn’t sound nearly as cool.
by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 7:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
another 2 cents
Breakout potential
Mitch Moreland, of course! Seriously, I go with Robbie Ross but I wouldn’t be surprised if one or two others have breakouts also.
Collapse
Michael Main. Needs to stay healthy and pitch 100-120 innings this year.
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Dec 20, 2008 7:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here is the link to that "prospect futures" thread
there were some interesting categories/answers posed. Here are the categories that I answered:
Biggest velo jump: Wieland
Best Power hitter: Bianucci
Starter to Reliever: Bleier, Phillips, Schlact, Reed, Castillo, Hyatt, Tatusko, Ballard, Mathis
Comeback player: Brigham
2 or more levels: T. Murphy, Bermudez, C.Young
Reliever Sleepers: Garr, Young, Schlecht, Roark, Eppley, j. Ortiz, J. Torres, Bermudez
Starter Sleepers; J. Grullon, Miggie
most likely to skip DSL: none
Flyer: Adalberto Flores
Flops: Laughter, Lueke, Bannister, Paisano, Fry, Alfonzo
Best DSL to AZL season: Pitcher-A. Mendoza (most talented: Melo); Hitter-Telis, Polanco, Pimentel, E. Garcia
http://www.lonestarball.com/2008/12/15/692939/2009-prospect-predictions
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
by Goyogringo on Dec 20, 2008 11:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and my definition of a sleeper:
I define a sleeper as a prospect who moves into the top 30 or a top 30 prospect that moves into the top 10.
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
by Goyogringo on Dec 20, 2008 11:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, I'll play
Breakout:
Kyle O Campo
Manny Pina
Christian Santana
Collapse:
Holland
Teagarden- Injury concerns
by Schrute Farms on Dec 20, 2008 11:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not directed at you Schrute, but for everyone who is concerned about Holland
2008 was clearly a breakout year for Holland and his performance in AA is undoubtedly responsible for the national attention that he has received, but he has posted excellent numbers in the two years that he has pitched as a professional:
2007 (20 yo) – 67 IP, 3.22 ERA, 11.1 K/9IP, 2.8 BB/9IP, 7.7 H/9IP
2008 (21 yo) – 150 IP, 2.27 ERA, 9.4 K/9IP, 2.4 BB/9IP, 6.6 H/9IP
Holland apparently has three legitimate pitches. Having a mid-90’s fastball certainly makes everything easier, but it seems to me that he can be a very effective pitcher even if his fastball returns to being a low-90’s pitch.
by spurdynasty on Dec 21, 2008 7:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I agree..
…and the reports about his change have been very encouraging. However, I’m still not sure he becomes the “ace” everyone here is envisioning, which would seem like a bit of a disappointment to this crowd.
by Schrute Farms on Dec 21, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i would settle
for a legit #2-3 SP given the Rangers history.
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Dec 21, 2008 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Your last paragraph
Holland apparently has three legitimate pitches. Having a mid-90’s fastball certainly makes everything easier, but it seems to me that he can be a very effective pitcher even if his fastball returns to being a low-90’s pitch.
might overstate how good he would be with the fastball back in the 89-92 range. He would be a major league pitcher probably, but I’m not sure that his secondary stuff stands out enough to make him “very effective” in the majors. His secondary stuff isn’t as far along as some make it sound. It has potential but some ways to go.
Having said that, I don’t think that he’ll slip all the way back down to that. However, a three mph decrease in velocity would make a big difference in his dominance. It would lower his ceiling noticeably. That’s what I’m concerned about, at least a tad.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 21, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Holland's fastball
was 90-93 MPH with good movement from the beginning of 2008. I could be wrong, but I view that as the floor for his velocity. He was hitting 95/96 on occasion by the end of the season, but he was still sitting 91-93 and benefitting significantly from good movement and location. That fastball, combined with two good (not great) secondary pitches, from a 22 yo LHP in AA is a great foundation from which one can develop a very good major league starter.
For what it is worth, my comment was primarily directed to those who have expressed concern that Holland might be a one-year wonder. In my opinion, Holland’s 2008 season merely extended what he had shown that he could do in 2007. The 2-year track record is indicative of a guy who, barring injury, will develop into a very effective major league pitcher.
by spurdynasty on Dec 21, 2008 9:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When I saw him twice in Frisco
He was not sitting at 93 he was sitting at 96. He was hitting 98.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 22, 2008 12:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
If you were getting accurate readings and he can maintain that, that would mean he’d be the hardest throwing starting pitcher in baseball. Holy crap.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2008 12:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sitting 96?
What game was that, Z?
Did you see Holland more than once? I would be very interested in hearing if he was consistently 96 after he reached Frisco or if he had a really good game or two.
by spurdynasty on Dec 22, 2008 7:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It was his first start
and one of the other couple. I primarily remember his first start, and it wasn’t a gun that I was running, but the scouts around me.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 22, 2008 8:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just to be clear
My recollection was that he hit 98 a handful of times in his first start, that he probably hit more 96s than anything else, and that there were some 95s, 97s, 94s and a couple of 93s. So when I say that he was sitting at 96, I mean that it was his most frequent reading, as opposed to just something he touched once or twice. And he probably threw 80% fastballs in his first start, fastball after fastball.
So I’m trying to paint the picture, at least when I saw him, of a much more fastball (and fastball velocity) reliant pitcher than I think you were describing. It’s not that I don’t think that he can be successful at a lower velocity – and I’m sure he’ll probably back off a little anyway as he develops his game – but the fact that he was up, down, in, out with such a hard and pretty well moving fastball was what his game was built on. His other pitches showed promise, but they weren’t even close to what his fastball was.
Neither of the games I saw were in the playoffs, and he really pitched well, so maybe he progressed in terms of his approach over the course of a few more games.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 22, 2008 9:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Holland
I saw him last season after he had made a few starts and he mostly worked in the 92-95 range, mostly on the lower end of that. he gave up some hard hits that were caught for outs but also got a lot of soft hits off the changeup.
that day it seemed mostly his changeup that was fooling guys because they were swinging early expecting a fastball
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Dec 22, 2008 9:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the first-hand accounts
by spurdynasty on Dec 22, 2008 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Assuming Holland comes back next year with the fastball that he had at the end of 2008, how long do you think it will take him to become a productive member of the Rangers rotation?
by spurdynasty on Dec 22, 2008 9:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
my guess
two or three months, maybe less. I can’t imagine it would be much longer than that, if, like you say, he has his same fastball from last year.
Don't believe the hype about sloppy seconds. They ain't bad.
by tricer on Dec 22, 2008 9:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What about his
secondary pitches?
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Dec 22, 2008 9:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand your question
But you just don’t often see teams leave a dominant starter in the minors until he has 3 above average pitches. If he has one average breaking pitch, and a good arm action on his change, along with the same fastball (w/ the great command) that he showed last season, then he’s probably ready for the bigs. Maddux is probably the best guy we could have tutor him.
Don't believe the hype about sloppy seconds. They ain't bad.
by tricer on Dec 22, 2008 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you
but, barring a rash of injuries, I don’t think we see Holland until August.
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Dec 22, 2008 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What percentage of changeups
would you guess he threw that game? Also, do you have any recollection of which start it was? I was just looking at his lines, and he had three home regular season starts plus at least one playoff start.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 22, 2008 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i’d say it was probably his last home start. dont remember the percentage but it was probably higher than usual because there were a lot of slower speed pitches that the batters were missing or fouling off
LOTS of foul balls that game.
He really wasnt “on” that game, but still didnt give up many hits.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Dec 22, 2008 10:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
looking back
i think it was august 28th. maybe
7ks and 4 hits sounds about right
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Dec 22, 2008 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That makes sense
I definitely wasn’t at the 8/28 game.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 22, 2008 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nah
Feliz sat higher than that.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 22, 2008 8:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i wish they had mph stats for minors so bad
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 22, 2008 9:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
fangraphs (i think) has mph avg by pitch by pitcher
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 22, 2008 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not quite...
A Goyogringo question would be something like, “Who’s most likely to suffer Thoracic Outlet Syndrome?”
"Alright class. Now that I've explained how silly the theory of evloution is, and how it's impossible for a specie to change over time, let's refocus on the Bible. I'd like to direct your attention to Genesis. Okay, now here's how the snake lost his voice..."
by YourNameHere on Dec 22, 2008 7:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that was in the first draft...
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
by Goyogringo on Dec 22, 2008 10:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha Ha...
I knew that one wouldn’t slip your mind.
"Alright class. Now that I've explained how silly the theory of evloution is, and how it's impossible for a specie to change over time, let's refocus on the Bible. I'd like to direct your attention to Genesis. Okay, now here's how the snake lost his voice..."
by YourNameHere on Dec 22, 2008 11:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
potential to drop
Beavan, Holland
potential to jump
Font, Weiland, MIggy, Whittleman
My Top 30 is pretty much the same as the community Top 30. I have MaxRam at 5, Beltre at 9, Font at 15, Wieland at 17, and Vallejo at 23.
Go Rangers!
by rooster on Dec 20, 2008 8:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the wrapup thread Dirk
The CPP’s might be my favorite LSB feature (well, besides GDT’s anyway). It’s gonna be an even longer winter now that these are over – as always Dirk, you did a great job.
And now, I present for the perusal of my fellow non-obsessed Ranger fans my top 35:
1. Holland
2. Feliz
3. Smoak
4. Main
5. Andrus
6. MaxRam
7. Perez
8. Borbon
9. Tea
10. Boscan
11. Beavan
12. Beltre
13. Hurley
14. Kiker
15. NeRam
16. Moscoso
17. Poveda
18. Diamond
19. Font
20. Wieland
21. Ross
22. Tim Murphy
23. Gomez
24. Vallejo
25. Hunter
26. Strop
27. Madrigal
28. Pimentel
29. O’Campo
30. Lemon
31. Clark Murphy
32. Golson
33. Moreland
34. Castillo
35. Macumba De Los Santos
Notes: Holland is indeed a top candidate for regression next year, but right now his better secondary pitches, control and polish put him over Feliz for me. I still love that Neftali fastball though. Prediction: by the midseason list, Smoak will be #1 over either of those two, however. Looking back at #10 now, I’m wondering if I should have gone Beavan over Boscan, but I’ll stick with my original ranking. Those two seem pretty interchangeable. I’ve slotted Moscoso in at #16, right in front of Poveda and Diamond – I was originally going to put him and Diamond together, but from what Z has told us about missing bats I think Moscoso’s stuff > Poveda’s.
Too high on the community list: Greg Golson and Jose Vallejo. I don’t see the fascination with either one, they both scream backup player to me. Honorable mentions here include Tommy Hunter, Marcus Lemon, Mitch Moreland and Teagarden.
Too low: Kennil Gomez and Thomas Diamond.
Guy we’ll feel like an idiot for leaving off: Kyle O’Campo, and possibly Clark Murphy.
Shooting up the list by midseason ‘09: Joe Wieland, Wilmer Font, Kennil Gomez and O’Campo.
Biggest risks for a significant drop: Engel Beltre, Holland and Diamond.
"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."
by lonestarJon on Dec 20, 2008 9:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Thank you, sir.
Good list, btw.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Dec 21, 2008 4:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Eat at Joe's
1. Neftali Feliz
2. Derek Holland
3. Justin Smoak
4. Michael Main
5. Taylor Teagarden
6. Martin Perez
7. Julio Borbon
8. Elvis Andrus
9. Max Ramirez
10. Joe Wieland
11. Blake Beavan
12. Engel Beltre
13. Jose Vallejo
14. Neil Ramirez
15. Wilmer Font
16. Eric Hurley
17. Wilfredo Boscan
18. Marcus Lemon
19. Kasey Kiker
20. Pedro Strop
21. Thomas Diamond
22. Guillermo Moscoso
23. Kennil Gomez
24. Robbie Ross
25. Tim Murphy
26. Warner Madrigal
27. Greg Golson
28. Johnny Whittleman
29. Mitch Moreland
30. Beau Jones
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 20, 2008 10:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wieland at 10. Wow.
I mean, W.O.W.
What makes you so happy in your crotch zone about the guy?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 10:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
From everything I see
He’s right on the heels of Main.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 20, 2008 10:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm inclined to think that too
But even so, I don’t think I would put him all the way up at #10 until he actually gets to the heels of Main.
"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."
by lonestarJon on Dec 20, 2008 10:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably right
That’s where my gut feeling comes in to play.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 20, 2008 10:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How?
Main always had huge velocity, that’s not true with Mighty Joe Weiland. Not to mention Main was a superior athlete (to the point where he could play CF, and was a legitimate 2 way prospect) whereas Weiland has none of that.
I mean I like Joe, and I started voting him earlier than most, but how is he anything like Main?
by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 10:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wieland projects as a power pitcher, supposivly
and both have pitchability and great poise, supposivly, at such a young age.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 20, 2008 11:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
supposivly?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 20, 2008 11:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've never watched either personally
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 20, 2008 11:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 11:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well the Wieland part...
I know Nolan Ryan thinks he projects as a power pitcher, but I dont know if i can fully trust his opinion yet.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 20, 2008 11:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
but Main HAD a power pitcher’s arsenal from day 1. Dude brought mid-90s the moment he was drafted with a great curve and a developing change. That’s a lot different from a dude who has a good curve, and a middling fastball with the potential to be great.
by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 11:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why is why Main is ranked ahead of Wieland.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 20, 2008 11:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The argument is that Main last year was a better prospect than Weiland THIS year. How is he “right on the heels of main”?
by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 11:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Why is why, oops… I don’t expect anyone to like Wieland as much as I do, so arguing that he should be where I have him is pointless… Just like arguing that Luis Mendoza still has a bright future.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 20, 2008 11:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting.
Better hope you’re right on him, cause if he explodes next year you have a written record to call upon for some serious “I told you so” action.
Look how high I was on Neftali way before he was rumored to be a target for Tex! See how smart! Bwa ha ha!!!
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 11:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Clark Murphy
Forgot about him, and should have had him on here.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 20, 2008 10:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And Omar Poveda
We have too many damn prospects.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 21, 2008 8:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My top 30:
1. LHP, Derek Holland
2. RHP, Neftali Feliz
3. 1b, Justin Smoak
4. RHP, Michael Main
5. SS, Elvis Andrus
6. C, Taylor Teagarden
7. C, Maximiliano Ramirez
8. LHP, Martin Perez
9. OF, Julio Borbon
10. RHP, Eric Hurley
11. OF, Engel Beltre
12. RHP, Blake Beavan
13. RHP, Wilfredo Boscan
14. RHP, Neil Ramirez
15. LHP, Kasey Kiker
16. 2b, Jose Vallejo
17. RHP, Wilmer Font
18. RHP, Omar Poveda
19. LHP, Robbie Ross
20. RHP, Tommy Hunter
21. RHP, Thomas Diamond
22. RHP, Joe Wieland
23. LHP, Tim Murphy (Tie)
23. OF, Greg Golson (Tie)
25. RHP, Warner Madrigal
26. SS, Marcus Lemon
27. RHP, Kennil Gomez
28. RHP, Pedro Strop
29. 1b/OF/LHP, Mitch Moreland
30. RHP, Carlos Pimentel
HOW DID LSB KNOW?!
by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 20, 2008 11:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
LOL.
Literally.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 11:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You could have at least broken the tie.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 20, 2008 11:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
playing it for comedy, the tie had to be there.
by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 20, 2008 11:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I know
Don’t take me serious
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 20, 2008 11:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My Top 15 for realzies:
1. Feliz
2. Smoak
3. Holland
4. Andrus
5. Max Ramirez
6. Main
7. Beltre
8. Teagarden
9. Borbon
10. Perez
11. Hurley
12. Neil Ramirez
13. Beavan
14. Font
15. Wieland
I’m pretty high on Max Ramirez and Beltre, it seems. The system is just ridiculous, though.
by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 21, 2008 12:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Beltre.
I think that’s about right for him. I’m not sure why he didn’t make the top 10 on the community rankings, but if Sickels (who strongly emphasizes plate discipline and is very wary of prospects in the Beltre ilk) is willing to rank him 7, then I think it’s very reasonable.
by LiamP on Dec 21, 2008 12:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly I was looking at it, skimming down saying to myself, "Hey, pretty good list" until I got the tie part and then I was like, "Hey, wait... fraudulent list!"
Well played, sir.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 21, 2008 12:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ridiculous
That list is a disgrace.
"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley
by trza on Dec 21, 2008 12:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No Arias!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHA
I'm Ed Werner, but with real secret sources...
by miles on Dec 20, 2008 11:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Here is my top 30.
I also have a top 90, top 20 DSL, and 2009 system-wide roster projections here (in excel format):
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
1 NEFTALI FELIZ
2 HOLLAND
3 J. Smoak
4 ELVIS ANDRUS
5 MICHAEL MAIN
6 MARTIN PEREZ
7 TEAGARDEN
8 ENGEL BELTRE
9 MAX RAMIREZ
10 BORBON
11 NEIL RAMIREZ
12 ERIC HURLEY
13 BLAKE BEAVAN
14 Moscoso
15 Strop
16 VALLEJO
17 OMAR POVEDA
18 KASEY KIKER
19 WILMER FONT
20 Wieland
21 BOSCAN
22 T. Murphy
23 HUNTER
24 R. Ross
25 DIAMOND
26 Madrigal
27 Golson
28 KENNIL GOMEZ
29 OCAMPO
30 PIMENTEL
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
by Goyogringo on Dec 21, 2008 4:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Why
are some all caps and some not?
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 21, 2008 5:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no reason
just copied them from a spreadsheet
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
by Goyogringo on Dec 21, 2008 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why
are they that way on your spreadsheet? :)
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 21, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
just to give you something to do this AM
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
by Goyogringo on Dec 21, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sorry that s/b
am
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
by Goyogringo on Dec 21, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
Are you going to post on that blog regularly, caps or no?
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 21, 2008 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure
There is so much good discussion ’round these parts, LSB, Cole, Lucas, MJH, BTIA, Newberg who needs another blog/site right? I think I will be posting some stuff during the break…
One guy who does need his own virtual forum other than LSB is spurdynasty, right?!
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
by Goyogringo on Dec 21, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's my rankings
though, seriously, my mind changes every day on some of these guys. I’ve been working way too much lately to do deep thinking in regards to prospects. Bah humbug.
1. Feliz
2. Smoak
3. Holland
4. Andrus
5. Main
6. Perez
7. Teagarden
8. Max
9. Borbon (feeling optimistic today)
10. Beavan
11. Ramirez (I think he’ll be top 5 this time next year)
12. Font
13. Beltre
14. Hurley
15. Boscan
16. Kiker
17. Ross
18. Moscoso
19. Tim Murphy
20. Wieland
21. Gomez (with health he’d rank a couple slots higher, I really like him)
22. Vallejo
23. Hunter
24. Poveda
25. Lemon
26. Madrigal
27. Strop
28. Pimentel
29. Moreland
30. Castillo (I still think he can turn it around)
Every time I think about this I’m sure I’m forgetting someone. As hard as this is I think it just gets harder next year, even with some expected graduations.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 21, 2008 5:49 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Awesome work, Dirkatron
This was your finest moment. Starting/stopping polls every morning at the crack of dawn made it easy to track what was going on and prepare for the next day’s discussion. Your often insightful, always entertaining comments, ensured compelling discussions for almost every vote. Your effort here was greatly appreciated. I just added this final post to my Favorites so that I can use the links you made to the 30 votes/discussions.
Discussion highlights for me:
NNOC’s enthusiastic support for Diamond – I hope he’s right
The “Lemon’s Under-Rated/Over-Rated” thread
YNH’s toss-ins of obscure DSL guys
The occasional “How can you guys possibly vote for X over Y?” rants from AJM and Z
Crystal-balling for the mid-year 2009 LSB rankings
Rankings for Main, Beavan, Gomez, and Pimental will go down because Bakersfield is a beating for pitching prospects
Lemon and Vallejo will be much closer in the rankings because Z, Jamey, JParks, Shroom, etc will be able to compare the two at Frisco games
Boscan or NeRa will move into the Top 5 when they post crazy numbers in Hickory and receive a promotion to Bakersfield or Frisco
Perez will drop below 10 when his late-season BA hype wears off and his numbers at Hickory fail to surpass what he did in Spokane
Kiker and Poveda will be ranked higher after performing above expectations in Frisco
Moreland will rank higher after posting a 950+OPS in the Cal League
by spurdynasty on Dec 21, 2008 8:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Moreland
is going to rake the Cal league. Some on here don’t think he’s in the top 35 yet…
"Holland didn’t make that kid question his swing, he made him question his career path"
by trident on Dec 21, 2008 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I really really really wish
they had challenged him with a promotion last summer. With his age he needs to move up the ladder to see how he handles it. I’d like to see them give him a shot as a RFer with that arm and power/patience combo. He would not be a star there, but perhaps good enough to be a nice trade chip.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 21, 2008 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah there whole OF promotion stategy
throughout the system was odd. It is weird that they are willing to challenge the likes of Latin American rookies like J. Ortiz and Perez with tough assignments but weren’t agressive with former college guys like Moreland and Smith.
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
by Goyogringo on Dec 21, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"their"
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
by Goyogringo on Dec 21, 2008 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hearing descriptions of his swing make me believe he's gonna crash back down to earth like a mother effer in the higher levels.
He’s gonna have to hit in Frisco before I move him up into the B- range.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Dec 21, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yo DT
how do you put links in your sig?
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
by Goyogringo on Dec 21, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This explains it pretty easy.
Just paste the code from the gray box.
You’ll have to change the fields to be the ones you want, obviously.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Dec 21, 2008 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
oh that explains it
I thought I just couldn’t find the tag in the profile editor…Thanks.
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
by Goyogringo on Dec 21, 2008 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think
that’s at least part of it, and partly why they’re considering him on the mound. If they’re not sold on his swing I’d rather see them make that decision early than try some Mayberry type project.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 21, 2008 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it will be
interresting to see how many innings he ends up pitching
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Dec 21, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you, sir.
Thanks for adding to the discussions with your 8,500 word posts ;)
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Dec 21, 2008 4:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Spurdynasty
it is nigh time you got your own site!
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
by Goyogringo on Dec 21, 2008 4:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the offer, but I’ll leave blog management to those of you who do it well. It’s more fun for me to pop in and drop a thought or two off and then see where it goes.
I spent some time at your site and really liked the thumbnails you have associated with the Rangers prospects. Do you plan to stay with the spreadsheet format? It certainly makes things easy for those of us who like to analyze data in spreadsheets.
by spurdynasty on Dec 21, 2008 9:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
yeah it is convenient and its sortable. I might do them in dreamweaver as spreadsheets to see how that goes like Lucas’s roster page but I would still like it to be sortable by age position level etc…But for now the format stands. Its also cool that people can download it if they want to and deface it as they like.
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
by Goyogringo on Dec 21, 2008 11:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OK my list
The Final List:
1. RHP, Neftali Feliz
2. LHP, Derek Holland
3. 1b, Justin Smoak
4. SS, Elvis Andrus
5. RHP, Michael Main
6. LHP, Martin Perez
7. OF, Engel Beltre
8. C, Maximiliano Ramirez
9. C, Taylor Teagarden
10. OF, Julio Borbon
11. RHP, Wilfredo Boscan
12. RHP, Blake Beavan
13. LHP, Kasey Kiker
14. RHP, Eric Hurley
15. RHP, Neil Ramirez
16. RHP, Omar Poveda
17. 2b, Jose Vallejo
18. RHP, Wilmer Font
19. LHP, Robbie Ross
20. RHP, Tommy Hunter
21. RHP, Thomas Diamond
22. RHP, Kennil Gomez
23. RHP, Joe Wieland
24. LHP, Tim Murphy
25. RHP, Warner Madrigal
26. OF, Greg Golson
27. 1b/OF/LHP, Mitch Moreland
28. RHP, Pedro Strop
29. SS, Marcus Lemon
30. OF Mike Biannucci
- is a give up for me. I like Bianucci but there are so many guys who could go there I just picked randomly. Plus it gives me something to go back to if he does break out.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 21, 2008 11:54 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Whoa what happened there
I don’t know what the last part did but it should say
- is a give up for me. I like Bianucci but there are so many guys who could go there I just picked randomly. Plus it gives me something to go back to if he does break out.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 21, 2008 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
WTF man
Bianucci is a give up for me.
Why can I not type #30 without it showing up as #1
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 21, 2008 11:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
funny
for a minute there i thought you were off your meds
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
by Goyogringo on Dec 21, 2008 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dirk. A. Tron
Nice Brian Giles approved wife beater you’re wearing there
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 21, 2008 12:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It's like I've always said...
When you’ve got it, flaunt it.
And when you very obviously do not got it, put on a crappy old wife beater and make a stupid looking half smiling/half shouting kind of a face.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Dec 21, 2008 4:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
At least you don't look like
Carrot Top in this one
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 21, 2008 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's cause I'm not a creepy ginger!!!
I really liked that old one but people kept assuming I was ginger and I had to take it down. I find gingers physically repulsive.
If it wasn’t for the badass ‘stache I’d say you look a lot like Franky the Cat in your photo.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Dec 21, 2008 5:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's just me wearing my Halloween costume
In reality, I look like this:
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 21, 2008 6:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
You’re a handsome bitch.
The very definition of bedroom eyes.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Dec 21, 2008 9:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ok i am going to attempt a top 25
1. Holland
2. Smoak
3. Feliz
4. Teagarden
5. Andrus
6. Main
7. Perez
8. Beltre
9. Max-Ram
10. Borbon
11. Beaven
12. Boscan
13. Font
14. Hurley
15. Neil-Ram
16. Kiker
17. Vallejo
18. Ross
19. Poveda
20. Madrigal
21. Wieland
22. Hunter
23. Kennil Gomez
24. Diamond
25. Moscoso
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Dec 21, 2008 12:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Big thank you
For the time and thought put into the rankings. In old time pop music terms, it’s like a top 40 plus some guys who could go up the charts. (With an occasional bullet, and …. err…… an occasional lemon)
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Dec 21, 2008 12:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm shocked!
I was convinced that Fabio Castillo would be the grand finale
by spurdynasty on Dec 21, 2008 9:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He was close
I really love Castillo’s upside, but wanted to focus on players that don’t always get to see the sun. Castillo has the skill set to take a step forward in ’09, but he might require more time to develop. That said, if Castillo can clean up his mechanics and continue developing his breaking ball, he could be something special.
by jparks77 on Dec 21, 2008 9:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You think Reed will be in the Frisco rotation at the start of 2009?
I was thinking Feliz, Holland, Kiker, Poveda, Moscoso would start in Frisco with Hyatt stepping into Holland’s slot if they decide to start Holland in AAA. Who do you have Reed displacing?
In addition, why put off moving Reed to the bullpen when that appears to be his best role?
by spurdynasty on Dec 21, 2008 9:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because
if his command improves he can be a valuable rotation arm. Moving Reed to the pen will always be an option, but I’d like to see him given another year to refine his stuff in the rotation.
by jparks77 on Dec 22, 2008 7:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rotation vs bullpen
I am interested in hearing opinions on how a team should manage development vs value in their prospects and Evan Reed seems to be the perfect test case. Reed was a good/not great closer in college. Since being converted to a starter by the Rangers, he’s put up very pedestrian numbers (187 IP, 1.30 WHIP, 6.9 K/9, 3.5 BB/9), though he’s been better against right-handers than left-handers (1.14 vs 1.53 WHIP, .228 vs .271 AVG).
In my opinion, a team would be wise to take a probabilistic approach in dealing with a player like Reed. What is the probability that Reed will develop the second and third pitches that will be necessary for him to become a decent starting pitcher? What is the probability that he will develop better command of his fastball? What is the probability that he will bypass the 10+ pitchers who are ahead of him in vying for a spot in the Rangers rotation (Hurley, Harrison, Hunter, Diamond, Holland, Feliz, Mendoza, Mathis, Kiker, Poveda) before the guys who are now behind him (Main, Beavan, Gomez, etc) surpass him? If the probabilities of these things happening are considered to be low, then an organization owes it to itself and to the player to look for ways to increase the players’ value. For pitchers, that involves a move to the bullpen.
The probabilities for Reed being successful in the bullpen look much better to me. I think it is reasonably likely that his good fastball and decent slider will be effective in short bursts, especially if he is not asked to pitch to tough lefties. It seems likely that he will not have problems adjusting to a role in the bullpen since that is what he did in college. Finally, the probability that Reed will have an opportunity to pitch out of the Rangers’ bullpen seems to be at least decent since he would probably slot behind Strop and Jones and alongside Garr and Laughter among relief candidates if he pitched reasonably well out of the Frisco bullpen in 2009.
In my mind, the only real reason for allowing Reed to continue to start is because you believe that he can develop into a better reliever if he is allowed to start in Frisco than if he is asked to pitch out of the bullpen.
by spurdynasty on Dec 22, 2008 9:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
my opinion, a team would be wise to take a probabilistic approach in dealing with a player like Reed. What is the probability that Reed will develop the second and third pitches that will be necessary for him to become a decent starting pitcher? What is the probability that he will develop better command of his fastball? What is the probability that he will bypass the 10+ pitchers who are ahead of him in vying for a spot in the Rangers rotation (Hurley, Harrison, Hunter, Diamond, Holland, Feliz, Mendoza, Mathis, Kiker, Poveda) before the guys who are now behind him (Main, Beavan, Gomez, etc) surpass him? If the probabilities of these things happening are considered to be low, then an organization owes it to itself and to the player to look for ways to increase the players’ value. For pitchers, that involves a move to the bullpen.
+1
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 22, 2008 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Simply put:
Starting gives him more innings/practice. Doesn’t matter if he will eventually wind up in the bullpen. Even if he stops trying to develop a 3rd pitch, he should become better at locating the 2 pitches he has the more often he throws them, right?
by rothe on Dec 22, 2008 9:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
this is basically the same comment I was going to make
Even if a guy is pretty clearly going to be a reliever in the ML, if he makes it at all, it seems like it is still best for their development to have them at least start for a while in AA.
Don't believe the hype about sloppy seconds. They ain't bad.
by tricer on Dec 22, 2008 9:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How different are relieving and starting?
My sense is that they are very different. Relieving involves less stamina and more strength; less working from the wind-up and more working with runners on base; less effort in setting a hitter up for the next tim eyou face him and more effort in trying to generate outs. Wouldn’t it make sense to develop reliever skills while you are in the minors rather than doing it in the majors?
by spurdynasty on Dec 22, 2008 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No reason he can't do all those things,
while still starting and pitching twice as many innings. Maybe not all, but most.
by rothe on Dec 22, 2008 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep completely agree
The mindset is different as well. For one you are siiting around all game knowing at any time you could be called upon. You have to stay mentally sharp all day every day. As a starter you are on a set plan. You start one day and know that you aren’t going to pitch in a game situation for another 4-5 days.
Relievers don’t need 3 above average pitches for a reason. Like spurs said you don’t have to worry about setting guys up for later in the game. Its go out and get the guy out right here right now. If you have one plus plus pitch then use it and use it often. If they can’t hit it they probably only get a couple chances before they are out anyway. Its not like they can get a good read on it and start to sit on it after two pitches.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 22, 2008 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Reed
If he has a chance to be a decent starter (which is possible if his command improves) then you give him every opportunity to start regardless of the queue to Arlington.
As I mentioned in my profile, the Rangers might decide that Reed is a better fit in the pen and will move him there in ’09. If they think he should be given more opportunities to start, then he will be starting.
Reed already has something that most pitchers can’t improve: A plus fastball. His comps need to improve as does his command, but those are things that can improve over time. Both of his comps have the potential to be league average pitches. If he can feature a plus fastball with two average comps and average command, that could make him a #3 starter at the major league level.
That said, probabilities have nothing to do with the actual development of prospects. Each player develops differently, especially pitchers. Some require time to put it all together. Reed might end up having more success in the pen. Of course, he might not.
by jparks77 on Dec 22, 2008 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Help me with this, please
probabilities have nothing to do with the actual development of prospects
Does that mean that a team should always try to develop a guy to his highest possible role? And if that is what you mean, then how do you determine when it is time to lower what you believe to be his highest possible role?
by spurdynasty on Dec 22, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
The majority of the time a player is developed to his highest possible role. The player is allowed to develop in that role until it becomes apparent to the coaching staff/front office that the player has reached the peak of his ability in that role. They make that determination based on several factors (body, tools, rate of development, make-up, etc.). Teams are often guilty of prematurely downgrading a player. You see this frequently with pitchers.
by jparks77 on Dec 22, 2008 10:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, Jason
I really hadn’t given much thought to the topic of “Developing Relievers” until now. A quick look for prospects whose values sky-rocketed when they were converted from starters to relievers reveals Rodriquez, Jenks, and Papelbon. It also appears that the Rockies and RedSox are adopting a model that involves identifying late-inning relief candidates from among their young pitchers and developing them in minor league bullpens. I imagine that accurately identifying “relief prospects” would be a challenging, though highly rewarding, process.
by spurdynasty on Dec 22, 2008 10:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
or possibly
drafting college closers (unlike the rangers generally)
http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/
by Goyogringo on Dec 22, 2008 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Been too busy w/work lately to comment too much...
…meanwhile, while jammin’ The Sound of Philadelphia: Gamble & Huff’s Greatest Hits…
Mr. Dir Ka Tron, for your perusal Sir Bomb Diggity:
Gracias mucho por su esfuerzo!!!
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Dec 21, 2008 8:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Jim Callis' top ten AL prospects
1. David Price, lhp, Rays
What he showed us in the postseason was just the beginning.
2. Matt Wieters, c, Orioles
He could be Mark Teixeira—as a catcher.
3. Brett Anderson, lhp, Athletics
The best player Oakland got in the package for Dan Haren.
4. Trevor Cahill, rhp, Athletics
It will be fun to watch his friendly rivalry with Anderson.
5. Neftali Feliz, rhp, Rangers
Just one reason the Braves wish they could undo their Teixeira trade.
6. Tim Beckham, ss, Rays
Yet another multitalented star-in-the-making for Tampa Bay.
7. Eric Hosmer, 1b, Royals
He could be the best of all the special hitters K.C. has drafted recently.
8. Lars Anderson, 1b, Red Sox
Even if Boston signs Teixeira, it will find room for Anderson in 2010.
9. Travis Snider, of, Blue Jays
Of these 10 guys, he might make the biggest 2009 impact in the majors.
10. Mike Moustakas, 3b, Royals
In a few years, he and Hosmer could combine for 70 homers annually.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 22, 2008 9:00 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
wow both a’s pitchers in the top 5, both above feliz?
didnt see that coming
personally i like anderson a LOT but thats just me
man, BOTH guys above feliz..wow
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 22, 2008 9:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Same here
I haven’t thought about who will have to fit in there from the NL, but I never would think that both Anderson and Cahill are top ten prospects, and, frankly, I have a feeling that his cohorts will talk him down off that a little.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 22, 2008 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i like anderson probably more than the next guy, and hes a top top guy for me but this is just a crazy list
hosmer at 7? above anderson and snider?
anderson at THREE?
cahill at FOUR?
i think anderson will suprise a lot of ppl and i would rank him slightly above cahill (much like i rank feliz slightly above holland) but BOTH above feliz is nuts
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 22, 2008 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Paul Thomas is so happy right now he's probably got his brother Brian pressed up against a wall somewhere, French kissing him against his will.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2008 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Don't name drop like that.
"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."
- The Huntressatron
by Chase Irwin on Dec 24, 2008 4:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It seems that Callis is focusing on guys that are close
And perhaps grades that guys that will see time in the bigs in 2009 higher. Price – already there, Weiters, super-solid AA #s, Anderson’s cruising through their system, Cahill, don’t know much about him. Nefti kinda came from nowhere last year given that he wasn’t the centerpiece of the deal that brought him to the Rangers. Hell, maybe Rangers fans overvalue Nefti and Holland.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Dec 22, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
6. Tim Beckham, ss, Rays
Yet another multitalented star-in-the-making for Tampa Bay.
7. Eric Hosmer, 1b, Royals
He could be the best of all the special hitters K.C. has drafted recently.
but these two guys are soooo far away
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 22, 2008 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mmm... Eric Hosmer...
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2008 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Laxtonto pitchers, catchers, SS, Firstbasemen and toolsy outfeilders prospect list
1. Feliz
2. Smoak
3. Holland
4. Borbon
5. Andrus
6. Teagarden
7. Main
8. Max Ram
9. Hurley
10. Beltre
11. Perez
12. Vallejo
13. Beavan
14. Kiker
15. Diamond
16. Weiland
17. N. Ramiez
18. Font
19. Ross
20. Hunter
21. Clark Murphy
My 2 major position player breakout prospects are Golson and Cristian Santana.
My sleeper relief prospect is Moscoso and sleeper SP is Miguel De Los Santos.
And yes i know I am going to get hammered for having Borbon up this high, but I was high on him at Tenn, and do expect his BB% to rise from his AA rate, but not as high as his AZL numbers. If he was in any other system people would be going nuts over him, but since he is in Texas’s he gets overlooked.
by laxtonto on Dec 22, 2008 11:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
eh i can see slotting him at/above teagarden but not andrus for me
personal thing though
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 22, 2008 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you wanna get hammered, do it on your own time.
I have Borbon at 6, so 4 isn’t otherworldly insane to me or anything.
The only point we seem to really disagree on is Vallejo, but I readily admit I could be wrong on him. I just want to see more before I believe in the bat. If he was a CF’er with that blazing speed I might cut him some more slack (I have such a veiny boner for speedy, plussy defense CF’ers), but for now I want to see him hit for another season before I take the plunge.
We share similar sentimonies on Kiker and Diamond, and I’m especially pleased to see Clamu get a late mention. I think he’s a big old horse just waiting to be unleashed next year. Hopefully he gets a Hickory assignment so I can see him.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2008 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why would a CFer be ok but not 2B?
Neither is considered a premium offensive position. We have been spoiled the last several years with Kinsler and Soriano but those are more the exceptions rather than the norm. Defense is supposed to be the most utilized asset at 2B and from all accounts Vallejos D is pretty good. So why would him moving to CF make him more attractive in your eyes?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 22, 2008 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For what it is worth
Tangotiger uses the conversion rates below to normalize offensive production between players at various defensive positions:
+1.25 C
+0.75 SS
+0.25 2B/3B/CF
-0.75 LF/RF
-1.25 1B
-1.75 DH
Consistent with BigSteve’s post, at least one leading thinker believes that defense at 2B is as important as defense in CF. With that said, it is hard for me to imagine that a plus defensive CF would be more valuable to the Rangers than a plus defensive 2B.
by spurdynasty on Dec 22, 2008 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say one would be okay and one wouldn't be okay. I said "I might cut him more slack." There's a huge difference there.
I just think that right now the very best thing he has going for him is his speed, and pure burner speed plays a way more important role in CF defense than it does at 2b.
Basically I was saying that with his tool set I could see him projecting out better as a CF’er.
Also, I think it’s easier to find decent defenders at 2b than it is in CF. But that one is just a feeling on my part, so don’t read too much into it and accuse me of saying “2b’s are dime a dozen and CF’ers are rarer than full length videos of The Dirkatron making it with Jessica Alba.”
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2008 2:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually expect Vallejo to blossom as a SS
I would not be surprised to see him shoot up the prospect lists if he plays the SS defensively in Frisco the way i think he can.
by laxtonto on Dec 22, 2008 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In addition to what Andy said
Even if Vallejo does move to shortstop and makes a fairly successful transition, a player who does this at the extreme upper levels usually seems to outrun this buzz and becomes a major leaguer before BA and the like catch on and are comfortable ranking him highly, particularly in the normal offseason cycle.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 22, 2008 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But with the Rangers
If he makes this successful transition he most likely wouldn’t exhaust his rookie/prospect eligibility because of who is in front of him. Vallejo isn’t jumping both Andrus and Young at SS in one year.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 22, 2008 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if he does adjust well to SS
He could be trade fodder. Maybe with Padilla at the deadline.
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Dec 22, 2008 6:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Great job on the LSBCPP
thedirkatron we love all your hard work :)
Thank you!
by cowpoke on Dec 22, 2008 2:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Pours the last 40 out ....
for 2008’s CPP’s.
"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."
- The Huntressatron
by Chase Irwin on Dec 24, 2008 4:52 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
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