Lone Star Ball: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: June USA Today / SB Nation Consensus MMA Rankings Released


spread the word

More on Boston and pitchers

So, Peter Gammons has an item up on ESPN right now, that includes this:

Red Sox GM Theo Epstein will not trade Michael Bowden, whom Epstein projects to be a very good major league starting pitcher.

So...Epstein won't trade Bowden.  We've heard all winter the Red Sox won't trade Clay Buchholz.  And of course, we've also heard that the BoSox love Justin Masterson and won't trade him, either.

So apparently, Boston isn't willing to deal any of its good young pitching prospects.

Which leaves me wondering...if all that is true, what is it that Boston could possibly be offering for Saltalamacchia or Teagarden?

 

0 recs | Comment 396 comments | Share on Facebook Digg!

Story-email Email Printer Print

More from Lone Star Ball

Friday a.m. stuff

Feb 2009 by Adam J. Morris - 74 comments

Saturday a.m. things

Jan 2009 by Adam J. Morris - 71 comments

Friday morning stuff

Jan 2009 by Adam J. Morris - 232 comments

Monday morning stuff

Jan 2009 by Adam J. Morris - 225 comments

Comments

Display:

he's just

trying to get leverage through media leaks.

Bobby Jindal '12

by dstar442005 on Dec 20, 2008 4:48 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

This is pure posturing.

Fire Ron Washington

by pblack on Dec 20, 2008 4:53 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and by leaks you mean oneo f the other companies owned by the red sox parent company lol

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:25 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oops

thought it was from one of the boston papers

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:25 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bard or Hagadone?

I really don’t buy that about Bowden though.

by LiamP on Dec 20, 2008 4:49 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If that's what they are offering then

I would make a trade with the Marlins instead if it was me. Screw the Red Sox.

by coolrangersfan on Dec 20, 2008 4:56 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

gotta love 27 yr old relievers in AA

or somewhere around there

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Dec 20, 2008 5:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Epstein is a little B*tch

He clearly has the Yankees mentality, where any team should feel lucky just to trade with them…ridiculous.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Dec 20, 2008 4:52 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Douche Theo

these steaming piles from Boston and New York love to overhype their prospects… Michael friggen Bowden is not gonna be an allstar…. he’ll end up being an end of the rotation starter… also, whatever happened to Melky Cabrera becoming the next Ken Griffey as predicted by the yankees?

Clay or bust, keep it steady JD… he doesn’t HAVE to trade a catcher, but the red shiats need a catcher

by Baseball North on Dec 20, 2008 5:05 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

they can hold onto Bowden

who cares, like the North says you hold out for Buchholz.

Salty is still hitting in the DWL. He has thrown out 3 of 7 runners attempting as well. His stock is rising. Buchholz stock took a hit last year, although Boston won’t admit it and tries to overhype everybody.

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Dec 20, 2008 5:11 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

we should start the overhypage as well

JD should start about both Salty and Tea being untouchable… and how they’ll both get equal playing time next year with Maxamus Decimus in AAA

by Baseball North on Dec 20, 2008 5:57 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Red Sox

has the rare Douchebag Triumvent with douchebag players, douchebag FO and douchebag fans. It’s quite impressive the amount of smarmy gittery jam packed in that city right now.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:29 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Years ago

When they were morose victims of the curse of the Babe, their forums were just as intolerable and some of their press was …. well, simply acerbic. I think I left one post on the RedSox ESPN forum about 2000, and all it asked was “Is there something dreadful in the water there?”

OTOH, Gammons is an instantly recognizable mouthpiece (although I’m not sure he actually recovered from his stroke or aneurysm)

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Dec 20, 2008 6:19 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

His speech

has definitely been slower and less eloquent since his stroke. It’s actually pretty obvious if you juxtapose pre and post operation levels. I really question if we need him on our Sunday Night Baseball broadcasts anymore

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:21 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That will be irrelevant

after Jan. 1.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 20, 2008 9:16 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What? Why?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 9:53 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

MLB network

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Dec 20, 2008 9:57 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What about it?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 10:02 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ESPN baseball coverage

will be irrelevant come Jan 1st when MLB network starts up. I believe that is what tball is referring to.

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Dec 20, 2008 10:27 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who knows what tball is talking about.

That dirty hippy is on so many drugs at all times.

Has he ever posted sober?

Does anyone know?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 10:29 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Heh

I never watch ESPN or go to their most annoying ever website as it is.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 21, 2008 4:53 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

heh

douchebag triumvent lol

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:27 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol

yes sir.

my mind boggles, a lot of 2ndary poo poo i suppose?

by Longhorn on Dec 20, 2008 5:05 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey, I'd gladly take Lars ;)

But I don’t think they’re trading him.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 5:08 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Unless they sign Teix

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Dec 20, 2008 6:19 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Even then

Ortiz would need to be replaced soon.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:22 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Question: Theo offers Lars straight up for Teagarden or Salty- Yes or no?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:25 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you had a good deal for Lars

that you knew you could make, I would do it. Its tough to trade for another 1B like him now since you are going from one log jam to another.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 20, 2008 6:26 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Man the idea of Davis in LF, Lars at DH and Smoak at 1b in '10 makes my underwears fit so freaking tight... That's three mashers with 40hr potential. ***DROOL***

I know Davis would be pretty subpar in LF, but he’s got good baseball instincts and a cannon for an arm so it might not be too bad, plus at that point you’d like to have Borbon in CF which might help make up for it somewhat.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:30 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hate the idea of Davis in the OF

Plus you’re looking at an OF that will have Hamilton dedicated to one spot and you have to consider Cruz and his amazing potential as well. Serious questions, would you rather have an OF of Davis, Hamilton, Cruz or Davis, Hamilton, Borbon?

I’d love the offense from moving Davis to the OF and having Lars here, but that is just too much of a hit for an already bad defense and you still see 0 pitching from trading a catcher that should bring in some top of the rotation talent.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 20, 2008 6:34 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think

with Feliz and Holland both looking like Flyball pitchers, we’d be wise to focus on OF defense, even at the cost of our IF defense right now. If we get Lars, I’d have no problems rolling with Davis -3B, Andrus-SS, Kinsler-2B, Smoak-1B, Andersen-DH as our configuration.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:39 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So.....

What are your realistic plans for Michael Young and his contract?

by CS3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:41 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LF, Utility, Trade?

If it’s really a 5/60 with 20 in deferred payments/initial bonus, i don’t think he’ll be THAT hard to trade.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:46 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lars at DH

We already have a better DH candidate than Lars. His name is Max.

Don't believe the hype about sloppy seconds. They ain't bad.

by tricer on Dec 20, 2008 8:30 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I dunno. Have to see how Borbon and Cruz progress in '09.

I love Cruz and this he’s a .900 OPS, 30 hr threat in ’09. But making long term decisions based on not wanting to push him out of a poisiton in ’10 seems a bit silly even to a Cruz lover like me.

And also understand that ’10 is a pretty agressive promotion schedule for both Lars and Smoak, especially for Smoak. Even if things go well we might not be talking about this until ’11, or maybe not at all if Lars or Smoak gets dealt and/or bombs in the high minors, which is very possible.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:46 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think its being too aggressive

Advanced college bats like Smoak don’t need that much time in the minors. Anderson also looks like he could go through a similar route as Davis in playing a little at AA next year, a bit at AAA, and being ready for the Majors.

And while everything can go wrong, I think JD should have some plan for what happens if everything works as they expect with these guys. If JD and co. believe enough in Cruz to have him be the full time starter next year, then they probably believe enough in him to think he can be the ..875-900 OPS guy with plus defense for more than one season. If that’s the case, I would like JD to know the trade market for a Lars Anderson or for Justin Smoak to prevent trading a catcher log jam for a 1B log jam.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 20, 2008 8:17 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I didn't say too agressive. But, yah, it's agressive.

Anytime you’re penciling in an ‘08 draft pick who signed late as a good bet to start the ’10 as your opening day 1b, that’s aggressive.

I’m with you though in that I think it’s certainly within the realm of possibility.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 8:36 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't know why, but, okay.

Why would a guy be a possibility in RF and not in LF? Is it solely cause arm is more important in RF than LF?

Cause I don’t find that sentimony very cromulent.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 7:13 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Particularly at TBIA...

…you want a guy with more range in LF.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 7:13 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why? Is LF that much bigger?

It always seemed like with the tall wall it was a smaller field.

Help me understand cause you’re always throwing this out there and I don’t grok it at all.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 7:15 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bigger

And more balls go to LF than to RF.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 7:15 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And deeper too

so you need a guy who’s able to go back on balls better.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 7:17 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hmmm... I guess it is slightly bigger when you consider the deep gap in RCF to be part of the CF'ers territory.

Though I’d still rather have Davis in LF than RF where I put a bigger premium on getting to balls quicker and getting rid of throws quicker.

If you were managing and you had Borbon in CF and then Davis and Hamilton as your available COF’ers, who be the RF and who would be the LF?

And where do you find things like more balls are hit to LF than RF? Is that in our ballpark or just in general? I had always thought that was pretty dependent on the pitcher and hitter in any given situation. Never really thought about whether a ton more balls go to on COF than the other.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 7:27 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Flyballs

Tend to be hit to your pull side for a majority of hitters, and a majority of hitters are right-handed. I’m guessing the overall breakdown doesn’t show a huge difference, but left does get more. And left fielders talk about ball spin making it a more difficult position, too.

by Andy Seiler on Dec 20, 2008 7:29 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bah, Davis is the DH

you trade Lars for something.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 20, 2008 9:20 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bah, play someone in a COF if you believe in all three bats.

If they’re all .900 ops machines I’d be so psyched to find a way to work all three into my lineup somehow. Those three, Hamilton, Kinsler and a good-offense catcher would be freaking crazy.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 10:04 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Man… that would be one of the best offensive cores in decades. Maybe the best, considering all those guys would be fairly young/in their primes.

It’ll never happen of course (well, it could happen for a short while on my PS2 tonight) but damn… the very fantasy is almost equivalent to a wet dream about your favorite crush. Gaaaawwwd.

"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."

by lonestarJon on Dec 20, 2008 10:17 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Really, though

I’m holding out for a package based on a pitcher or two instead of Lars.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 21, 2008 4:57 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if davis goes anywhere other than 1st or DH

I’d assume it would be 3B.

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Dec 20, 2008 8:56 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think he'd cost you fewer runs in a COF spot from what I've seen.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 9:00 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll go along

with that. I’d rather see them have their cake and eat it, too, but there aren’t a lot of good glove good bat combos available for LF right now.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 21, 2008 4:57 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes

for Salty, I’m a big Lars Andersen fan.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:27 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

probably a top 25 prospect

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Heh, yah, same for me. Except I'd rather deal Tea.

But I’d do it for either.

Lars is a studly stud.

Boston wouldn’t, I’m guessing. He’s really highly regarded.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:31 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

See

I think if we get a non-pitcher for Teagarden right now, knee-jerk Hicks might very well can JD, but that’s another conversation.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:33 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As insane as this sounds...
I think if we get a non-pitcher for Teagarden right now, knee-jerk Hicks might very well can JD,

…I’m inclined to agree with you.

by LiamP on Dec 20, 2008 6:36 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so if we get offered a stud 3b for teagarden we should do it? whaaaaaaaat

this is like the whole stevoo shit with smoak and why we shouldnt take him and should have taken a pitcher

BPA.

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:41 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In the draft

where there is a limited number of players, yes, BPA works, but I don’t think you can use that model as far as trade acquisition. The guys you’re trading are already a part of your system, your instructors have already worked with them, they have real value, rather than the hypothetical value of a guy not taken.

As an aside, are there really that many stud, young 3Bs right now? Z-Pac in Washington and Wright in NYM, and Longoria in tampa are pretty much the only 3 young guys right? Are there any 3Bs that I’m missing or prospects that I’m not accounting for?

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:45 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Stewart, yes. I'd love to snag him. Laroche too, for that matter.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:54 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Stewart

Wasn’t there some real discussion about moving him to second? I know they tried him in a limited way last year, but I guess with Atkins gone he’s at third permanently.

by Andy Seiler on Dec 20, 2008 6:55 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There is also

discussion of Stewart to the OF, which I think shows you how awesome he is athletically. He graded out real well at 3B this year, so I think he’s a guy who has a legitimate chance of being a great offensive and defensive 3B, which is how I define a “stud”.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:57 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

All I know

Is that he looks good at third just in observation, though he makes a little too many errors. He’ll get better with time, and I was also impressed with his athleticism.

by Andy Seiler on Dec 20, 2008 7:02 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Same as Buchholz

One bad year isn’t much. He trends up as he’s promoted, so there’s no reason to think he won’t get a lot better. Some think he’s a lot like Whittleman in that he’s too patient at times, but from watching him in person you can tell that he’s got some of the best plate coverage and discipline for a guy that has power. He’ll succeed.

by Andy Seiler on Dec 20, 2008 8:12 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

People need to give up on LaRoche

He’s just not as good as expected. Is Andy Marte going to get it now? LaRoche has been absolutely terrible in the Majors in 111 games and isn’t that young great prospect he once was.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 20, 2008 8:22 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well

This was his first year back from thumb surgery and most people struggle for up to a year from the time of the injury. And go compare Marte’s numbers to LaRoche’s. Then go and watch both of them in person. LaRoche is a Major League caliber third baseman.

by Andy Seiler on Dec 20, 2008 8:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pedro Alvarez (who obviously can't be dealt yet) and Josh Vitters off the top of my head.

There are probably a number of others I’m missing, too.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:49 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Brett Wallace, too.

Though I have a hard time seeing him there long term with his body.

Alex Gordon, too. Though he’s apparently been sucking with the glove in KC to the point they’re talking about 1b in the near future. How the mighty have fallen.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:53 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't see

wallace as a good long-term 3B. I don’t see how his glove can get good enough to overcome his natural physicial deficiencies.

Alex gordon is interesting, he has an absurdly high amount of OF, warning track FBs. I am really starting to think that if you put him in a less ridiculous homepark, you’d see him become one heck of a HR threat.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:54 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gordon

I think he’s been a lot better than people think. People expected him to come up and crush 30 out right away. He’s still just 24 and had an OPS+ of 110 last year, so I agree with you on his offensive talent. He’ll be a stud. On the defensive side, I know he didn’t receive a single Fielding Bible vote, so he must not be any better range wise overall than it’s seemed during the times I’ve seen him.

by Andy Seiler on Dec 20, 2008 6:59 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's a lot like

Kinsler defensively, in that he was acceptably good last year, and he has always shown above-average range and tools, but he’s never had a great defensive season to date. Also like Kinsler, he fell from the face of the earth defensively this year. I’d be willing to do the Alex Gordon experiment at 3B .

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 7:01 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh, yah. If we could get Gordon you'd have to be all over that.

Even if he never hits his head on the sky like was once predicted by the prospectors he’s still a studly guy going forward.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 7:16 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

See

I don’t see either Vitters or Alvarez as stud 3Bs yet. Alvarez might not stay @ 3B, and at this point, his Ks are pretty worrying (he K’d a lot more than guys like Wallace or Smoak did in college).

Vitters hasn’t hit for that much power. I’m talking about legitimate guys close to the majors.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:52 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not. At all.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:42 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not a big Lars fan

only power has been in the Cal league..

His AA #’s are inflated by an insane BABIP.

He is a guy I would take and then flip

by laxtonto on Dec 20, 2008 8:16 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

I think his hype to production ratio is all screwed up right now.

Don't believe the hype about sloppy seconds. They ain't bad.

by tricer on Dec 20, 2008 8:42 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just a few quick things...

Year BABIP LD%
2007 A .365 14%
2007 A+ .440 19%
2008 A+ .367 21%
2008 AA .435 19%

by laxtonto on Dec 20, 2008 9:05 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

flip

Can I flip Lars to the NYY for Hughes?

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Dec 20, 2008 6:29 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For Teagarden

I wouldn’t blink.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Dec 20, 2008 7:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gammons hasn't been a good baseball reporter for some time.

I know everyone loves him cause he’s a good guy and for a while he was the only one giving us good shit on Sportscenter, but the guy is pretty out of it at this point.

If Rosenthal says it, I might put some stock in it.

But when Gammons says something, especially about the Red Sox, I take with a huge old chunky grain of salt.

I call some serious bullshit on this.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 5:07 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh my sweet dear lord infant baby jesus YES.

I love Hughes.

They seem to be doing any and everything to get a veteran in to take the 5th spot away from Hughes, so maybe they’d entertain the idea… Even though in reality they wouldn’t.

It’s still pretty to dream about such things.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 5:39 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hughes

He would be a solid target. He’s got the potential to be a #2 guy.

Is he more attainable than Clay, or less untouchable??

by Baseball North on Dec 20, 2008 5:55 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's a potential to be a number one guy.

I’d say just about the same as Clay, maybe a little more attainable due to the uncertainty that always surrounds young pitchers and their injuries, but, still… why trade a guy after a season where he struggled?

He was a consensus top 5 overall prospect just a year ago and has ungodly strikeout stuff when he’s right.

If I’m them I’m holding on for dear life and trading him only if overwhelmed.

But if they wanna talk Phil Hughes, I’d listen so fucking hard.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:03 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

my problem with hughes is that from what ive read a lot of the problems with him is between his ears, not physical issues

and pitchers with that problem scare the shit out of me

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:29 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and to pull a sharky

and reply to my own post

yes, id still love to have hughes

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:29 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Problems between his ears

how much of that is because of New York, though?

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:30 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

New York

If it’s the spotlight, then he’d be a ghost in Arlington, with the way the print media coverage dropping like flies

I think Clay has a higher ceiling but Hughes is the safer bet. Both top of the rotation material but I’d prefer Hughes as well.

by Baseball North on Dec 20, 2008 6:36 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hughes

also has the benefit of being younger than Buchholz. I’m not sure if Clay has the higher ceiling right now.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:41 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Shit.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Dec 20, 2008 7:40 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hughes also has injury concerns that Buchholz doesn’t have.

Don't believe the hype about sloppy seconds. They ain't bad.

by tricer on Dec 20, 2008 8:45 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The only thing that

really concerns me about Hughes and his health is that his velocity wasn’t there consistently the last two years. Some of that was returning from stuff, but it would just bother me some. The other stuff, I just don’t think it’s gotten to a point where you read too much into those injuries. He’s still so young. In a way, it’s good for him that his arm has been preserved during these years.

by Brett Perryman on Dec 20, 2008 9:37 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hughes...

Salty + Millwood for Hughes?

by Topgun22 on Dec 20, 2008 11:40 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah

Gammons + Red Sox = puppet on a string

by JBImaknee on Dec 20, 2008 7:46 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who cares?

We didn’t even want him for our catchers anyway.

by meatbonelefty on Dec 20, 2008 5:10 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What we got for Laird

might be better than what Boston is offering us for better younger catchers. ridiculous

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Dec 20, 2008 5:13 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just another reason

to hate the RedSox. In order to trade with them, you have to be getting the shaft. This is probably just posturing. Salty is blowing up in winter ball and driving his value up. The RedSox could be trying to boost the value of Bowden and Masterson so it won’t look so bad when they trade Buchholz.

But honestly, it wouldn’t hurt my feelings if we never traded with Boston again. I freakin hate Redsox fans. In fact, i hate everything about Boston. lol Celtics and Patriots can go jump off a tall bridge too for all i care.

by texaschief on Dec 20, 2008 5:13 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Sox have Daniel Bard. He isn’t a starter, but he could be a very, very dominate relief pitcher/closer.

I’d be pretty pissed if the Sox traded him, though…

by Randy Booth on Dec 20, 2008 5:19 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think the Sox might have to make a move to compensate for not trading Buchh/Bowden/Masterson. For example, maybe taking a player off your hands who has a high salary, but will allow the Sox to use a couple of lower-level pitching prospects to grab Salty/TG

by Randy Booth on Dec 20, 2008 5:23 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's

pretty dumb, the Rangers payroll is neither very high nor are there many players they need to sign to an extension in the immediate future with Hamilton, Kinsler, Davs, et al.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:25 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No it's not dumb.

I’m all for being mean to Boston fans (since they’re the worst people on Earth by far), but taking back a crap salary like Cat or Padzilla could really help us out.

Take that money and apply even half of it to LA or to buying a faller in next year’s draft and you more than make up for the prospect you’d have gotten from ’em now.

Getting rid of some crap contracts is always valuable.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 5:43 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

this

but we’re not going to do that in a Salty or Tea trade…

by Longhorn on Dec 20, 2008 5:45 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well

Personally, I don’t think Padilla has a crap contract. Or Millwood, for that matter. I suspect that if you wanted to simply give one of them away for a Mark Hamburger or Michael Hernandez, you could do that right now.

Cat is a different matter…but would you really prefer the Rangers get something less back for Salty or Teagarden in order to get Cat off the books?

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 5:45 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cat

He also cost us a draft pick. Imagine if we added the #16 pick to our haul in 2007.

by Andy Seiler on Dec 20, 2008 5:50 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yah, thanks. We know. That has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 5:55 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

I know. I was just saying the fact he cost us a DP can't be factored at all into our decision making process on the guy going forward.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:12 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

k

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:14 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That could had been Alderson, Porcello, Poreda, or Revere

But there’s nothing we can do about it now. We just have to learn from mistakes and be more careful next time.

by coolrangersfan on Dec 20, 2008 6:09 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or it could have been Ahrens.

Or it could’ve been someone even shittier.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:11 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Given

how much money we’d already spent, I would guess it might have been shittier, though Ahrens has been pretty shitty so far.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:19 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

regardless of who it was

the move was still dumb at the time because Cat has never been good enough to give up the 16th pick of any draft. However, it’s a mistake from the past and we should just move on and learn from it. Notice I am not the one bringing it up.

by coolrangersfan on Dec 20, 2008 6:21 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Indeed. But spending monye on that pick might've prevented us from going over slot to buy Borbon and NeRa, too.

Still, it was a horrible decision to give up a freaking 1st round pick for Cat. I’m not arguing that point. No one outside of Cat and his family would argue that point.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:27 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You're right on Padzilla. Don't know why I threw him in there with Cat.

Cat is a straight crap contract. Padzilla I’ve been kind of viewing as an impediment to Sheets, but I’ve actually said what you said a couple of times here: If we wanted to we could give away Padzilla (or Millwood for that matter) and their contracts right now if we wanted.

And, yah, I do think it would theoretically be worth taking back something “lesser” in any deal if we got to give away Cat’s contract. Money is money. Money buys prospects. As long as you use that money to build the team and not just buy Hicks a new fur coat for each of his 317 snooty French-Canadian manservants.

Obviously it would depend on the package, though. It’s not gonna be a “Hey, if you take back Cat you can have Teagarden for a depth-guy” or something. But if they offered a decent package and then offered to take Cat back as a sweeter, that’s be pretty sugary, no?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 5:54 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cat

has a whole 1 year left on his contract. Are you that desperate to sign Ben Sheets that you think 1) getting cat off the books would make a damn lick of difference in the Sheets sweepstakes or 2) That the big contracts we have is worth wrecking the biggest position of strength in the system to get rid of them?

The guys we have under contract (Millwood, Padilla, Young, Cat and Blalock) mostly are gone next season. The only one that won’t be is Young, and you’d have to get rid of a whole lot more to banish him. Not to mention there’s a legitimate question of who we would extend with our new money. It’s not like we have waves and waves of arb1s ready to be signed right now.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:01 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, I never said either of those things.

But getting rid of 6 million dollars worth of Cat contract (4mm in ’09 and a 2mm buyout next winter) would be a pretty good thing, no?

Imagine if we took even 4 mil of that and sunk into snagging extra talent in the draft, Latin America and East Asia in ’09?

Money can be used to buy prospects or other assets (Sheets or otherwise) is what I’m saying.

We have a finite budget and clearing some money off our books.

Of course who knows how that money would actually be used. But I don’t think it’s a dumb idea worthy of telling a guy to EABOD.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:09 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Question

What do you personally think we could get for Cat if we wanted to get his entire contract off our books?

by Andy Seiler on Dec 20, 2008 6:14 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Are you talking just in general?

An even worse contract is the only thing we could get back. No one’s gonna trade for him and his contract without giving us some shitty money back.

Or do you mean in the context of [Cat’s contract] + [A catcher] = [something from Boston] type deal?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:17 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No way, imo.

Cat is an expensive platoon-only DH who’s not even that good against the guys he can platoon against. I can’t see any team taking him, even for “free”.

You can pull better players off the waiver wire for considerably less money.

If they could give Cat away for a Hamburger you’d think it’d’ve been by now.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:23 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agree

But I think he’s a better hitter than we give him credit for. I think we’ll end up eating less contract than people think. But we will have to eat some.

by Andy Seiler on Dec 20, 2008 6:26 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That of course

feeds into the idea that either of those things would make a ounce of difference in our scouting budget for those places. We offered, to the best of my knowledge, superior contracts to both Inoa and Tazawa, both of whom chose to sign with different teams. I think this whole idea of the major league payroll and the minor league operations payroll are interconnected is a flawed one.

By all accounts, Hicks has been willing to spend as necessary to get the young guys, even with our current contracts on the books, but he’s been reluctant to spend on veterans regardless. I’m not sure how much impact a contract like Cat’s would ultimately have on our budget, but I’d be shocked if it is in any way significant.

Then, there’s the idea that what is done with TT/Salty/Max will have a big hand in shaping our future. Given that this team still has plenty of holes, I think accepting an inferior bid to get rid of a contract is exactly how someone becomes a perpetual wasteland like Pittsburgh. We need to maximize on-field value for these guys, not to draw what has largely been nonexistent lines between scouting and MLB payroll in an effort to justify accepting inferior bids.

And yes, I think that idiotic post of Booth’s is the equivalent of someone saying Bowden for Laird would be totally fair, as long as Texas takes back Mike Lowell. It fullys deserves a EABOD, if not a DiAF

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:16 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Okay. That's a fair viewpoint.

We disagree on certain things (most notably on how to treat visitors with differing viewpoints), but that’s reasonable.

To be fair I have no idea how the money flows from Hicks to the team and how that money gets divvied up between scouting/acquisition and major league payroll. You might be entirely right there, but I have no way of knowing so it’s kind of hard to argue based on anything but conjecture on my part.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:22 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Visitors with different viewpoints

are cool, I even held off lambasting that PaulThomas douche, if you will remember. But patently wrong visitors with very ill-informed view points deserve what they get, but what have you.

Like I said, we can only give rough estimates, but I have seen very little evidence that our ML acquisition payroll and our minors acquisition payroll are connected.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:24 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They're connected long-term.

Since it’s all connected to the same pockets, everything is connected long-term. So if we shed payroll one way, there’s a good chance that money shows up again somewhere else, if not this year then some place in the future. I know that budgeting doesn’t work the way we would like it to in terms of saving on Major League payroll for signing bonuses this year, but it does eventually work itself out that way. If we shed some payroll now and work with less, there’s a good chance Hicks approves a larger draft budget or international budget later.

by Andy Seiler on Dec 20, 2008 6:30 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Keep in mind, though

that we’re essentially talking about a 1 year contract with Cat. even if it’s connected long term (this is also a contentious pt, cause if our rangers aren’t operating on a year to year unique budget, Tom Hicks sucks more than I thought), how much impact will it have overall? Have we really seen a decline in our Int Budget with the signing of guys like Millwood, Padilla or Young?

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:32 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you look at numbers

Our international and draft budgets have gone up since we shed payroll after the 2003 season, most notably around 2006 or so. That’s a combination of both philosophy and a Hicks that is happier to approve such things. Like I said, it’s not an exact “save x here and x is added later to here.” It’s more like saving money is going to lead to more profit (or less loss), so Hicks is more willing later on to approve higher budgets elsewhere. $6 million shed with Cat is significant in that regard if we don’t add payroll because he’s gone.

by Andy Seiler on Dec 20, 2008 6:37 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe

but we also saw a GM change around that time. Like you said, we can’t try any clear lines, but I’d like to think JD has some impact on how things were done.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:42 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well

Payroll went up at the Major League level the season JD took over, so it might be a general loosening up by Hicks. JD definitely decides how he wants it to be, but Hicks is the one who gives the grand total of how much to spend.

by Andy Seiler on Dec 20, 2008 6:46 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah

JD would never, ever do anything like that when it comes to his catchers.

I’m guessing it’s going to be for Buch, if not, he’ll move on to the next team…

by Longhorn on Dec 20, 2008 5:26 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He also

has a pretty extensive injury history. Daniel Bard should be talked in the same sentence as Gerald Laird, not either of the younger catchers the Rangers have.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:21 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Yeah, but injuries haven’t been a problem for him in awhile. The dude can hit a 100 and make guys look foolish at the plate.

by Randy Booth on Dec 20, 2008 5:24 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's not worth Salty or Tea

straight up. Puh-leaze.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 20, 2008 5:26 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nah, probably not, but I’m sure he could be your closer by opening day :)

by Randy Booth on Dec 20, 2008 5:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Doubt it

we have a couple of guys that are ready and have more experience than him (Wilson, Francisco)

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 20, 2008 5:30 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dude

walked quite a few folks in AA as a 23 year old. He sucked as a starter and he didn’t pitch enough innings for us to know if that lowered HR rates and H rates are luck or skill based. Seriously, either stop being a douche or kindly stick to your own blog.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:34 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Franky Frank is actually pretty solid, imo.

I feel darn comfortable with him marching in for the ninth next year.

As good as I’ve felt since Gagne was smoke-and-mirrors’ing his way through the summer of ’07 here.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 5:57 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dude

also had a 6+ ERA as a starter. A good relief prospect is worth an average catcher, and that’s all Daniel Bard will ever be.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:26 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But that’s as a starter. He projects as a reliever…

His first couple season were really bad. He was WILD. But now he has locked it down, strikes out a lot of people and walks few.

by Randy Booth on Dec 20, 2008 5:30 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He has 4.7 BB/9 in AA

as a 23 year old. please stop talking.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:30 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wow. Okay. Way to stereotype a Rangers fan. Adios.

by Randy Booth on Dec 20, 2008 5:31 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey you

Red Sox fan, I think I speak for the rest of the country when I say: Go eat a dick.

Thanks
-Rangers Fan

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:32 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You just

speak for yourself. Stop being a jerk.

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Dec 20, 2008 5:37 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't you have some

incredibly out of date, thrice posted data that you should be posting right now?

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:35 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is there any reason...

you are being an incredible dick at the moment?

It doesn’t seem that anyone did anything to you personally to start insulting others.

by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 20, 2008 6:37 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Meh

it’s my winter break celebration

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:51 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

haha...

We should all just insult each other on New Years.

It could be cathartic.

by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 20, 2008 7:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll be happy

to post an insult diary on New Years Day.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 20, 2008 9:24 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Man...

please do.

My friends and I we get together usually right after Christmas and have a dinner where we air our grievances for the past year. It’s incredible. We lose a lot of terrible new boy friends and girlfriends of pals that way.

by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 20, 2008 11:01 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bitch days

should be kept private among great friends, otherwise, you do what everyone else does – talk behind other people’s backs.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 11:03 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

heh

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 21, 2008 12:58 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's the dumbest idea you've ever had, and you're the king of dumb ideas.

Also you’re an ugly virgin who likes to make out with his first cousins.

Plus, what’s up with the halitosis, broseph? Do you they not sell Listerine where you live, or what’s the deal there?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 9:59 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Yeah?

Well, you sir (or should I say ma’am?) have a terrible face. That’s right. I said it. The region above your neck is not attractive or pleasant to look for any one person.

Also, the breath thing is from making out with your first cousins, as well. Which, it makes me think, maybe it is something that runs along the family tree. Rotten fruit as it were.

Basically, what I am saying is you are a terrible gentleman and possibly an inadequate lover. At least, that is the rumors I’ve had told to me in the boudoir of your former exploits.

by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 20, 2008 10:59 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   2 recs

How dare you, sir!?

I’ll have you know that in truth I have never taken a lover.

Some say it’s because I’m waiting for true love before giving myself to a woman.

But most say it’s more because of my extreme ugliness and the rank odor the emanates from my man-nipples.

by thedirkatron on Dec 21, 2008 3:54 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Ah...

but fellow, I was trying to spare you from this grand embarrassment. You see, I was aware of these issues you presented, but it wasn’t something I was hoping you’d find prudent of me to discuss to others on the Internet.

I will say though, chum, chin up. I have heard that there is a small cache of ladies whom mind not either odor, nor one’s appearance. Soon, and frankly not soon enough, you could very well be neck deep in non-judgmental vagoo.

As they say, it isn’t the man of the nipples, it is the nipples of the man. Think about it.

by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 21, 2008 4:24 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Im rec'ing the last 4 comments.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Dec 21, 2008 8:49 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dude...

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 5:45 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Chill

dude runs a moderately popular Red Sox blog out of the thousands that exist in the great cyberwaste land, big whoop.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:51 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so thats a reason to be a douchebag?

uhhh no

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:33 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Haha

you’re one of the last people that should be lecturing others about being a douchebag.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:34 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

because i rail on hurley that makes me a douchebag?

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:35 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dude please

you’re so beyond the level of railing when it comes to Eric Hurley. It’s been one of the most steadily reliable features of this blog. Even then, it’s more the fact that you treat anyone who defends Hurley as half retarded and you find a way to bring it into every thread.

Like I said, let’s not throw stones in glass houses, we all have bad tendencies. I don’t presume to lecture you about your rabid Hurley hate, don’t act like a wedgied nun.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:37 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

uhh what?

this is something that didnt even START until he came up and everyone started loving him after 2-3 starts at the major league level.

how do i treat them as half retarded, i only do that with ppl who think hurley is a top of the rotation guy now.

but man, blasting people for no reason is kinda foolish.

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:39 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That said...

I could still see Hurley starting a game three or four playoff game for the Rangers.

I still has he has a Brett Myers-esque (non-wife beating) type of career in him.

by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 20, 2008 6:43 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hey if hes a brett myers or millwood im happy

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 7:54 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Come on man

don’t do this shit again. You not only ragged on Hurley, but you acted like you were some unique spectacle pointing out his faults. No shit, and the way you constantly brought it up was quite douchebaggy.

And for the record, no one has explained to me how the fuck someone claims Daniel bard is a pitcher with great control without being either illiterate or retarded, so I feel fully justified for telling a guy who amounts to a bad salesman to shove it.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:50 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

im ashamed to be a member of the same blog as you.

very sad.

t ball on MY - "hate the contract, don't hate the player"

by bspate on Dec 21, 2008 8:41 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I really hope you are kidding

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 21, 2008 9:58 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Then make sure

people who like to post random statements like “Daniel Bard walks few guys” understand that they’re wrong.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:37 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well

There’s a better way to go about disagreeing with that statement than to tell someone to stop talking. Particularly other SBNation bloggers.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 5:38 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You're welcome to

put up a disclaimer that members of LSB doesn’t speak for you, but when someone maintains something that is patently false, I don’t see why we should give them leeway because they happen to be a SBNation blogger.

Especially when they drag a whole damn virtual short bus with them.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:45 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You really are

a bit out of line here tonight.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 20, 2008 9:26 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Step off of it

Like I said, Adam is welcomed to say “that douche FirebatM3 doesn’t speak for this blog” and that’s fine, but let’s not pretend that we’re all missing the scintillating discussion brought by Red Sox fan about how Daniel Bard is the second coming with his 100 mph fastball and his cancer-curing performance this year.

Sorry if I offend your Victorian sensibilities dude, but I stand by my statement that the Red Sox guy and most of his shortbus can go EABOD.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 10:38 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And I stand by my feeling that you were pretty mean to that guy for no reason in this thread.

All he did was talk about how good he thought his guy was and you immediately started in with the flames.

But, whatever.

We all snap and say things from time to time.

I’ve probably flamed every single member of this board at one time or another.

I was once mean to an Angels fan for very little reason, pretty much for no reason other than that he got on my nerves by being a living Angels fan, so I know how it can be when an opposing team’s fan gets under your skin and you decide to go after him to make him go away. IIRC, I was pretty drunk for that. Wow. It was meaner than I remember. Heh.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 11:00 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That thread

was pretty epic, even for a Politics thread

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 11:05 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You could have been meaner

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 20, 2008 11:12 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That was

I remember that douche. I wanted more destruction.

by brettgardner on Dec 20, 2008 11:35 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You should've joined in.

You’re not up to my standards obviously, but you’re a pretty hateful hater yourself when you get going.

I don’t know that we’ve ever tandem-hated on anyone.

I’m pretty sure the force of a Dirkatron/Brett Gardner tandem-hate could end the world as we know it.

by thedirkatron on Dec 21, 2008 3:46 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tandem hate

tag team insults has potential.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 21, 2008 4:59 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Screw you.

Only most of his shortbus? See, you’ve already calmed down a bit.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 21, 2008 5:02 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Do you not understand English nor statistics?

He said he WAS wild, WAS. An incredibly wild at that, leading to inflated statistics of wildness, such as walks. Meaning, that he might now have grown into being a player who is better than his past numbers indicate.

by Gnick on Dec 20, 2008 5:40 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So

we should put no stock in what he IS now?

by Longhorn on Dec 20, 2008 5:42 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

4.7 BB/9

that’s a guy who gives up quite a bit of walks, we don’t exactly have fangraphs data to know how many of his pitches fall outside the zone, but the only indicator that we do have (BB/9) shows that he is still very wild. Not to mention that the only year that he has been good (this year) was a mere 100 innings stretched between two levels, neither of which being AAA or the majors (which is important considering the dude is 23). Seriously, what part of “Dude still walked a lot of guys” in AA is wrong?

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:43 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As he progressed in AA

He began to walk less guys. Therefore, his numbers at the beginning of the year in which he did walk a ton of guys place an undue burden upon his final numbers.

by Gnick on Dec 20, 2008 5:46 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sigh

Daniel Bard BB% for

May – 7.4%
June – 10.8%
July – 15.4%
August – 15.2%

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:48 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

You know what Randy

Don’t worry about these chumps. If they don’t want what we’re offering, then to hell with them. Either way we’re infinitely better off then they are for 2009 and beyond.

by Gnick on Dec 20, 2008 5:31 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh good point

Genius, really.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 20, 2008 5:32 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You are right

we don’t want a pile of shit for a top of the line catcher.

Miami bound...

by boomer1 on Dec 20, 2008 5:32 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What they really want is

Salty for a new box of balls.

Miami bound...

by boomer1 on Dec 20, 2008 5:34 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The stereotype of a Red Sox fan

Is someone who points out the blatantly obvious fact that the Red Sox are a better team than the Rangers going into the 2009 season?

by Gnick on Dec 20, 2008 5:35 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

heh
Is someone who points out the blatantly obvious

Yep, sounds like a BoSox fan to me.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 20, 2008 5:40 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

By that logic

We’re pointing out how good Bowden and Bard are, therefore we must be correct, because as you said we point out the blatantly obvious.

by Gnick on Dec 20, 2008 5:41 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They are good

But they are not worth Salty or Tea straight up. Don’t be ridiculous.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 20, 2008 5:42 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think they are

We would need to add another one of our good prospects like Kalish or Reddick and probably another guy for it to be fair.

by Gnick on Dec 20, 2008 5:49 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why would Texas want

either of those guys, especially given their OF glut, their minor league CF depth and the fact that both are only average prospects (and Kalish was well below average this year)?

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:08 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kalish?

Kalish put up a .700 OPS this year on two levels. I’d be much more interested in reddick, but really, the only way either of those guys have value is if they stay in CF or if they have a Kinsler in 2004 type breakout.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:18 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kalish

He was also a 20 year old in the Sally League. And he’s got a lot of upside. Sickels has him as a B-, which isn’t unreasonable, I don’t think.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 6:21 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At this point

do you think either Kalish or Reddick covers the difference between Bowden/Bard and Buchholz? I don’t think either of them does, especially given our depth of CF from Arlington down to Bakersfield next year and the fact that neither were particularly impressive this past year.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:26 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well

Probably not. But then, I don’t think Salty for Buchholz is reasonable, either. I think Salty for Bowden and Kalish isn’t unreasonable.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 7:04 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well then

I guess I disagree. I don’t see the point of trading a guy that can be very good (Salty) for two guys with either very limited ceilings or a very limited chance to reach those ceilings.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 7:05 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

On a pure value stance?

No.

But I think given that JD holds the cards, I don’t think it’s an absurd deal like Bard+Kalish for Salty would be.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 7:08 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well

I think Bowden plus Kalish for Salty is more reasonable than Salty for Buchholz.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 7:10 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's your perogative

I think that Buchholz being 24 years old and having a fairly miserable, fairly extensive tryout in big leagues means that his value isn’t nearly as high as it was a year ago. He’s still got more value than Salty, but not enough where I’d be willing to settle for Bowden+Kalish.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 7:14 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why?

A TJS recovery guy isn’t a guy you want as the guy that makes up that gap.

by Andy Seiler on Dec 20, 2008 7:23 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I disagree

if he was a TJS guy that threw high 80s, then yeah, but this is a relatively young guy that throws in the low-mid 90s coming from the left side.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 7:35 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm on the Sickels side

TJS is a serious operation with real side effects. A guy needs to prove command before I believe he’s over it, and that’s no guarantee at all.

by Andy Seiler on Dec 20, 2008 7:40 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I tend to

give a bigger pass to younger guys who undergo TJ, but that’s personal choice. Overall, I think we’d be better served to value ceiling over depth right now given the state of our farm system.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 7:45 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Adam

What do you think about how JD was offered Bowden 2 years in a row (reportedly) and refused both time? Also, Keith Law seems extremely down on Bowden.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 20, 2008 8:30 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I have to think...

…the Rangers aren’t as high on Bowden as some others are.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 8:35 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Rangers are making a mistake then.

Bowden’s stats are impressive. I believe more in statistics than scouts. Statistics in baseball are facts, they are indisputable. Scouting by eye is mostly based on opinion and has a large margin for error, which can lead to wrong assumptions and miscalculations. Can scouts explain why Guardado, with his lack of stuff, pitched better than Nippert last year? I know they will mention the word “command” in their response to that question. Well, Bowden has that type of “command” and it leads to those good statistics.

by coolrangersfan on Dec 20, 2008 9:00 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They seem to place more importance on scouts though

I am not saying to disregard scouting completely. I just think that statistics should have a higher priority in the evaluation of a player.

by coolrangersfan on Dec 20, 2008 9:03 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That is an exception

I was referring to the evaluation of minor leaguers. In the case of high school kids in particular, scouting is really important because the players face different levels of competition.

by coolrangersfan on Dec 20, 2008 9:11 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is a complicated argument

And I don’t know that you can just flat say that they put more importance on scouts than stats, really.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 9:06 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One example of that is when they dumped Littleton.

His stats were not bad at all. It had to be because of his stuff or something related to scouting. Also, what has John Bannister done statistically to earn a spot on the 40? I know he has been getting his fastball up to the mid-90s lately but so did Jason Davis throughout his career and where did that get him? Didn’t he just sign a contract to play in Japan or something?

by coolrangersfan on Dec 20, 2008 9:57 PM CST to parent up