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More on Boston and pitchers

So, Peter Gammons has an item up on ESPN right now, that includes this:

Red Sox GM Theo Epstein will not trade Michael Bowden, whom Epstein projects to be a very good major league starting pitcher.

So...Epstein won't trade Bowden.  We've heard all winter the Red Sox won't trade Clay Buchholz.  And of course, we've also heard that the BoSox love Justin Masterson and won't trade him, either.

So apparently, Boston isn't willing to deal any of its good young pitching prospects.

Which leaves me wondering...if all that is true, what is it that Boston could possibly be offering for Saltalamacchia or Teagarden?

 

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Comments

Display:

he's just

trying to get leverage through media leaks.

Bobby Jindal '12

by dstar442005 on Dec 20, 2008 4:48 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

+1

This is pure posturing.

Fire Ron Washington

by pblack on Dec 20, 2008 4:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and by leaks you mean oneo f the other companies owned by the red sox parent company lol

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

oops

thought it was from one of the boston papers

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bard or Hagadone?

I really don’t buy that about Bowden though.

by LiamP on Dec 20, 2008 4:49 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

If that's what they are offering then

I would make a trade with the Marlins instead if it was me. Screw the Red Sox.

by coolrangersfan on Dec 20, 2008 4:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Epstein is a little B*tch

He clearly has the Yankees mentality, where any team should feel lucky just to trade with them…ridiculous.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Dec 20, 2008 4:52 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Douche Theo

these steaming piles from Boston and New York love to overhype their prospects… Michael friggen Bowden is not gonna be an allstar…. he’ll end up being an end of the rotation starter… also, whatever happened to Melky Cabrera becoming the next Ken Griffey as predicted by the yankees?

Clay or bust, keep it steady JD… he doesn’t HAVE to trade a catcher, but the red shiats need a catcher

by Baseball North on Dec 20, 2008 5:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

they can hold onto Bowden

who cares, like the North says you hold out for Buchholz.

Salty is still hitting in the DWL. He has thrown out 3 of 7 runners attempting as well. His stock is rising. Buchholz stock took a hit last year, although Boston won’t admit it and tries to overhype everybody.

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Dec 20, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

we should start the overhypage as well

JD should start about both Salty and Tea being untouchable… and how they’ll both get equal playing time next year with Maxamus Decimus in AAA

by Baseball North on Dec 20, 2008 5:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i don't see why they don't

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Dec 20, 2008 8:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Red Sox

has the rare Douchebag Triumvent with douchebag players, douchebag FO and douchebag fans. It’s quite impressive the amount of smarmy gittery jam packed in that city right now.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Years ago

When they were morose victims of the curse of the Babe, their forums were just as intolerable and some of their press was …. well, simply acerbic. I think I left one post on the RedSox ESPN forum about 2000, and all it asked was “Is there something dreadful in the water there?”

OTOH, Gammons is an instantly recognizable mouthpiece (although I’m not sure he actually recovered from his stroke or aneurysm)

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Dec 20, 2008 6:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

His speech

has definitely been slower and less eloquent since his stroke. It’s actually pretty obvious if you juxtapose pre and post operation levels. I really question if we need him on our Sunday Night Baseball broadcasts anymore

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That will be irrelevant

after Jan. 1.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 20, 2008 9:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What? Why?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 9:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

MLB network

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Dec 20, 2008 9:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What about it?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 10:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

ESPN baseball coverage

will be irrelevant come Jan 1st when MLB network starts up. I believe that is what tball is referring to.

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Dec 20, 2008 10:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Who knows what tball is talking about.

That dirty hippy is on so many drugs at all times.

Has he ever posted sober?

Does anyone know?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 10:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Heh

I never watch ESPN or go to their most annoying ever website as it is.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 21, 2008 4:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

heh

douchebag triumvent lol

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

why's

that?

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Dec 21, 2008 10:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Who are you?

And why are you talking to me?

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Dec 21, 2008 3:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

lol

yes sir.

my mind boggles, a lot of 2ndary poo poo i suppose?

by Longhorn on Dec 20, 2008 5:05 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Hey, I'd gladly take Lars ;)

But I don’t think they’re trading him.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 5:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Unless they sign Teix

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Dec 20, 2008 6:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Even then

Ortiz would need to be replaced soon.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Question: Theo offers Lars straight up for Teagarden or Salty- Yes or no?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If you had a good deal for Lars

that you knew you could make, I would do it. Its tough to trade for another 1B like him now since you are going from one log jam to another.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 20, 2008 6:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Man the idea of Davis in LF, Lars at DH and Smoak at 1b in '10 makes my underwears fit so freaking tight... That's three mashers with 40hr potential. ***DROOL***

I know Davis would be pretty subpar in LF, but he’s got good baseball instincts and a cannon for an arm so it might not be too bad, plus at that point you’d like to have Borbon in CF which might help make up for it somewhat.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I hate the idea of Davis in the OF

Plus you’re looking at an OF that will have Hamilton dedicated to one spot and you have to consider Cruz and his amazing potential as well. Serious questions, would you rather have an OF of Davis, Hamilton, Cruz or Davis, Hamilton, Borbon?

I’d love the offense from moving Davis to the OF and having Lars here, but that is just too much of a hit for an already bad defense and you still see 0 pitching from trading a catcher that should bring in some top of the rotation talent.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 20, 2008 6:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think

with Feliz and Holland both looking like Flyball pitchers, we’d be wise to focus on OF defense, even at the cost of our IF defense right now. If we get Lars, I’d have no problems rolling with Davis -3B, Andrus-SS, Kinsler-2B, Smoak-1B, Andersen-DH as our configuration.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So.....

What are your realistic plans for Michael Young and his contract?

by CS3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LF, Utility, Trade?

If it’s really a 5/60 with 20 in deferred payments/initial bonus, i don’t think he’ll be THAT hard to trade.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Lars at DH

We already have a better DH candidate than Lars. His name is Max.

Don't believe the hype about sloppy seconds. They ain't bad.

by tricer on Dec 20, 2008 8:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno. Have to see how Borbon and Cruz progress in '09.

I love Cruz and this he’s a .900 OPS, 30 hr threat in ’09. But making long term decisions based on not wanting to push him out of a poisiton in ’10 seems a bit silly even to a Cruz lover like me.

And also understand that ’10 is a pretty agressive promotion schedule for both Lars and Smoak, especially for Smoak. Even if things go well we might not be talking about this until ’11, or maybe not at all if Lars or Smoak gets dealt and/or bombs in the high minors, which is very possible.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think its being too aggressive

Advanced college bats like Smoak don’t need that much time in the minors. Anderson also looks like he could go through a similar route as Davis in playing a little at AA next year, a bit at AAA, and being ready for the Majors.

And while everything can go wrong, I think JD should have some plan for what happens if everything works as they expect with these guys. If JD and co. believe enough in Cruz to have him be the full time starter next year, then they probably believe enough in him to think he can be the ..875-900 OPS guy with plus defense for more than one season. If that’s the case, I would like JD to know the trade market for a Lars Anderson or for Justin Smoak to prevent trading a catcher log jam for a 1B log jam.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 20, 2008 8:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't say too agressive. But, yah, it's agressive.

Anytime you’re penciling in an ‘08 draft pick who signed late as a good bet to start the ’10 as your opening day 1b, that’s aggressive.

I’m with you though in that I think it’s certainly within the realm of possibility.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 8:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know why, but, okay.

Why would a guy be a possibility in RF and not in LF? Is it solely cause arm is more important in RF than LF?

Cause I don’t find that sentimony very cromulent.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 7:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Particularly at TBIA...

…you want a guy with more range in LF.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 7:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why? Is LF that much bigger?

It always seemed like with the tall wall it was a smaller field.

Help me understand cause you’re always throwing this out there and I don’t grok it at all.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 7:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bigger

And more balls go to LF than to RF.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 7:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And deeper too

so you need a guy who’s able to go back on balls better.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 7:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm... I guess it is slightly bigger when you consider the deep gap in RCF to be part of the CF'ers territory.

Though I’d still rather have Davis in LF than RF where I put a bigger premium on getting to balls quicker and getting rid of throws quicker.

If you were managing and you had Borbon in CF and then Davis and Hamilton as your available COF’ers, who be the RF and who would be the LF?

And where do you find things like more balls are hit to LF than RF? Is that in our ballpark or just in general? I had always thought that was pretty dependent on the pitcher and hitter in any given situation. Never really thought about whether a ton more balls go to on COF than the other.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 7:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bah, Davis is the DH

you trade Lars for something.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 20, 2008 9:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bah, play someone in a COF if you believe in all three bats.

If they’re all .900 ops machines I’d be so psyched to find a way to work all three into my lineup somehow. Those three, Hamilton, Kinsler and a good-offense catcher would be freaking crazy.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 10:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Man… that would be one of the best offensive cores in decades. Maybe the best, considering all those guys would be fairly young/in their primes.

It’ll never happen of course (well, it could happen for a short while on my PS2 tonight) but damn… the very fantasy is almost equivalent to a wet dream about your favorite crush. Gaaaawwwd.

"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."

by lonestarJon on Dec 20, 2008 10:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Really, though

I’m holding out for a package based on a pitcher or two instead of Lars.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 21, 2008 4:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

if davis goes anywhere other than 1st or DH

I’d assume it would be 3B.

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Dec 20, 2008 8:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think he'd cost you fewer runs in a COF spot from what I've seen.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 9:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll go along

with that. I’d rather see them have their cake and eat it, too, but there aren’t a lot of good glove good bat combos available for LF right now.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 21, 2008 4:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

for Salty, I’m a big Lars Andersen fan.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

probably a top 25 prospect

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Heh, yah, same for me. Except I'd rather deal Tea.

But I’d do it for either.

Lars is a studly stud.

Boston wouldn’t, I’m guessing. He’s really highly regarded.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

See

I think if we get a non-pitcher for Teagarden right now, knee-jerk Hicks might very well can JD, but that’s another conversation.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

As insane as this sounds...
I think if we get a non-pitcher for Teagarden right now, knee-jerk Hicks might very well can JD,

…I’m inclined to agree with you.

by LiamP on Dec 20, 2008 6:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

so if we get offered a stud 3b for teagarden we should do it? whaaaaaaaat

this is like the whole stevoo shit with smoak and why we shouldnt take him and should have taken a pitcher

BPA.

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

In the draft

where there is a limited number of players, yes, BPA works, but I don’t think you can use that model as far as trade acquisition. The guys you’re trading are already a part of your system, your instructors have already worked with them, they have real value, rather than the hypothetical value of a guy not taken.

As an aside, are there really that many stud, young 3Bs right now? Z-Pac in Washington and Wright in NYM, and Longoria in tampa are pretty much the only 3 young guys right? Are there any 3Bs that I’m missing or prospects that I’m not accounting for?

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Pedro Alvarez (who obviously can't be dealt yet) and Josh Vitters off the top of my head.

There are probably a number of others I’m missing, too.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

See

I don’t see either Vitters or Alvarez as stud 3Bs yet. Alvarez might not stay @ 3B, and at this point, his Ks are pretty worrying (he K’d a lot more than guys like Wallace or Smoak did in college).

Vitters hasn’t hit for that much power. I’m talking about legitimate guys close to the majors.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not. At all.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not a big Lars fan

only power has been in the Cal league..

His AA #’s are inflated by an insane BABIP.

He is a guy I would take and then flip

by laxtonto on Dec 20, 2008 8:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

I think his hype to production ratio is all screwed up right now.

Don't believe the hype about sloppy seconds. They ain't bad.

by tricer on Dec 20, 2008 8:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Just a few quick things...

Year BABIP LD%
2007 A .365 14%
2007 A+ .440 19%
2008 A+ .367 21%
2008 AA .435 19%

by laxtonto on Dec 20, 2008 9:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

flip

Can I flip Lars to the NYY for Hughes?

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Dec 20, 2008 6:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

For Teagarden

I wouldn’t blink.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Dec 20, 2008 7:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Gammons hasn't been a good baseball reporter for some time.

I know everyone loves him cause he’s a good guy and for a while he was the only one giving us good shit on Sportscenter, but the guy is pretty out of it at this point.

If Rosenthal says it, I might put some stock in it.

But when Gammons says something, especially about the Red Sox, I take with a huge old chunky grain of salt.

I call some serious bullshit on this.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 5:07 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

espn analysts are puppets

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Dec 20, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i would love to see JD just say, 'eff it',

and try to workout something with Cashman for Hughes.

by Longhorn on Dec 20, 2008 5:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh my sweet dear lord infant baby jesus YES.

I love Hughes.

They seem to be doing any and everything to get a veteran in to take the 5th spot away from Hughes, so maybe they’d entertain the idea… Even though in reality they wouldn’t.

It’s still pretty to dream about such things.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 5:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hughes

He would be a solid target. He’s got the potential to be a #2 guy.

Is he more attainable than Clay, or less untouchable??

by Baseball North on Dec 20, 2008 5:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's a potential to be a number one guy.

I’d say just about the same as Clay, maybe a little more attainable due to the uncertainty that always surrounds young pitchers and their injuries, but, still… why trade a guy after a season where he struggled?

He was a consensus top 5 overall prospect just a year ago and has ungodly strikeout stuff when he’s right.

If I’m them I’m holding on for dear life and trading him only if overwhelmed.

But if they wanna talk Phil Hughes, I’d listen so fucking hard.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

my problem with hughes is that from what ive read a lot of the problems with him is between his ears, not physical issues

and pitchers with that problem scare the shit out of me

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and to pull a sharky

and reply to my own post

yes, id still love to have hughes

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Problems between his ears

how much of that is because of New York, though?

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

New York

If it’s the spotlight, then he’d be a ghost in Arlington, with the way the print media coverage dropping like flies

I think Clay has a higher ceiling but Hughes is the safer bet. Both top of the rotation material but I’d prefer Hughes as well.

by Baseball North on Dec 20, 2008 6:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hughes

also has the benefit of being younger than Buchholz. I’m not sure if Clay has the higher ceiling right now.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Shit.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Dec 20, 2008 7:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hughes also has injury concerns that Buchholz doesn’t have.

Don't believe the hype about sloppy seconds. They ain't bad.

by tricer on Dec 20, 2008 8:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The only thing that

really concerns me about Hughes and his health is that his velocity wasn’t there consistently the last two years. Some of that was returning from stuff, but it would just bother me some. The other stuff, I just don’t think it’s gotten to a point where you read too much into those injuries. He’s still so young. In a way, it’s good for him that his arm has been preserved during these years.

by Brett Perryman on Dec 20, 2008 9:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hughes...

Salty + Millwood for Hughes?

by Topgun22 on Dec 20, 2008 11:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

Gammons + Red Sox = puppet on a string

by JBImaknee on Dec 20, 2008 7:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Who cares?

We didn’t even want him for our catchers anyway.

by meatbonelefty on Dec 20, 2008 5:10 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

What we got for Laird

might be better than what Boston is offering us for better younger catchers. ridiculous

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Dec 20, 2008 5:13 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Just another reason

to hate the RedSox. In order to trade with them, you have to be getting the shaft. This is probably just posturing. Salty is blowing up in winter ball and driving his value up. The RedSox could be trying to boost the value of Bowden and Masterson so it won’t look so bad when they trade Buchholz.

But honestly, it wouldn’t hurt my feelings if we never traded with Boston again. I freakin hate Redsox fans. In fact, i hate everything about Boston. lol Celtics and Patriots can go jump off a tall bridge too for all i care.

by texaschief on Dec 20, 2008 5:13 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The Sox have Daniel Bard. He isn’t a starter, but he could be a very, very dominate relief pitcher/closer.

I’d be pretty pissed if the Sox traded him, though…

by Randy Booth on Dec 20, 2008 5:19 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I think the Sox might have to make a move to compensate for not trading Buchh/Bowden/Masterson. For example, maybe taking a player off your hands who has a high salary, but will allow the Sox to use a couple of lower-level pitching prospects to grab Salty/TG

by Randy Booth on Dec 20, 2008 5:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's

pretty dumb, the Rangers payroll is neither very high nor are there many players they need to sign to an extension in the immediate future with Hamilton, Kinsler, Davs, et al.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No it's not dumb.

I’m all for being mean to Boston fans (since they’re the worst people on Earth by far), but taking back a crap salary like Cat or Padzilla could really help us out.

Take that money and apply even half of it to LA or to buying a faller in next year’s draft and you more than make up for the prospect you’d have gotten from ’em now.

Getting rid of some crap contracts is always valuable.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 5:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

this

but we’re not going to do that in a Salty or Tea trade…

by Longhorn on Dec 20, 2008 5:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

Personally, I don’t think Padilla has a crap contract. Or Millwood, for that matter. I suspect that if you wanted to simply give one of them away for a Mark Hamburger or Michael Hernandez, you could do that right now.

Cat is a different matter…but would you really prefer the Rangers get something less back for Salty or Teagarden in order to get Cat off the books?

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 5:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You're right on Padzilla. Don't know why I threw him in there with Cat.

Cat is a straight crap contract. Padzilla I’ve been kind of viewing as an impediment to Sheets, but I’ve actually said what you said a couple of times here: If we wanted to we could give away Padzilla (or Millwood for that matter) and their contracts right now if we wanted.

And, yah, I do think it would theoretically be worth taking back something “lesser” in any deal if we got to give away Cat’s contract. Money is money. Money buys prospects. As long as you use that money to build the team and not just buy Hicks a new fur coat for each of his 317 snooty French-Canadian manservants.

Obviously it would depend on the package, though. It’s not gonna be a “Hey, if you take back Cat you can have Teagarden for a depth-guy” or something. But if they offered a decent package and then offered to take Cat back as a sweeter, that’s be pretty sugary, no?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 5:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Cat

has a whole 1 year left on his contract. Are you that desperate to sign Ben Sheets that you think 1) getting cat off the books would make a damn lick of difference in the Sheets sweepstakes or 2) That the big contracts we have is worth wrecking the biggest position of strength in the system to get rid of them?

The guys we have under contract (Millwood, Padilla, Young, Cat and Blalock) mostly are gone next season. The only one that won’t be is Young, and you’d have to get rid of a whole lot more to banish him. Not to mention there’s a legitimate question of who we would extend with our new money. It’s not like we have waves and waves of arb1s ready to be signed right now.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No, I never said either of those things.

But getting rid of 6 million dollars worth of Cat contract (4mm in ’09 and a 2mm buyout next winter) would be a pretty good thing, no?

Imagine if we took even 4 mil of that and sunk into snagging extra talent in the draft, Latin America and East Asia in ’09?

Money can be used to buy prospects or other assets (Sheets or otherwise) is what I’m saying.

We have a finite budget and clearing some money off our books.

Of course who knows how that money would actually be used. But I don’t think it’s a dumb idea worthy of telling a guy to EABOD.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That of course

feeds into the idea that either of those things would make a ounce of difference in our scouting budget for those places. We offered, to the best of my knowledge, superior contracts to both Inoa and Tazawa, both of whom chose to sign with different teams. I think this whole idea of the major league payroll and the minor league operations payroll are interconnected is a flawed one.

By all accounts, Hicks has been willing to spend as necessary to get the young guys, even with our current contracts on the books, but he’s been reluctant to spend on veterans regardless. I’m not sure how much impact a contract like Cat’s would ultimately have on our budget, but I’d be shocked if it is in any way significant.

Then, there’s the idea that what is done with TT/Salty/Max will have a big hand in shaping our future. Given that this team still has plenty of holes, I think accepting an inferior bid to get rid of a contract is exactly how someone becomes a perpetual wasteland like Pittsburgh. We need to maximize on-field value for these guys, not to draw what has largely been nonexistent lines between scouting and MLB payroll in an effort to justify accepting inferior bids.

And yes, I think that idiotic post of Booth’s is the equivalent of someone saying Bowden for Laird would be totally fair, as long as Texas takes back Mike Lowell. It fullys deserves a EABOD, if not a DiAF

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Okay. That's a fair viewpoint.

We disagree on certain things (most notably on how to treat visitors with differing viewpoints), but that’s reasonable.

To be fair I have no idea how the money flows from Hicks to the team and how that money gets divvied up between scouting/acquisition and major league payroll. You might be entirely right there, but I have no way of knowing so it’s kind of hard to argue based on anything but conjecture on my part.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 6:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Visitors with different viewpoints

are cool, I even held off lambasting that PaulThomas douche, if you will remember. But patently wrong visitors with very ill-informed view points deserve what they get, but what have you.

Like I said, we can only give rough estimates, but I have seen very little evidence that our ML acquisition payroll and our minors acquisition payroll are connected.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

JD would never, ever do anything like that when it comes to his catchers.

I’m guessing it’s going to be for Buch, if not, he’ll move on to the next team…

by Longhorn on Dec 20, 2008 5:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He also

has a pretty extensive injury history. Daniel Bard should be talked in the same sentence as Gerald Laird, not either of the younger catchers the Rangers have.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:21 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, but injuries haven’t been a problem for him in awhile. The dude can hit a 100 and make guys look foolish at the plate.

by Randy Booth on Dec 20, 2008 5:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's not worth Salty or Tea

straight up. Puh-leaze.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 20, 2008 5:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nah, probably not, but I’m sure he could be your closer by opening day :)

by Randy Booth on Dec 20, 2008 5:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Doubt it

we have a couple of guys that are ready and have more experience than him (Wilson, Francisco)

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 20, 2008 5:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dude

walked quite a few folks in AA as a 23 year old. He sucked as a starter and he didn’t pitch enough innings for us to know if that lowered HR rates and H rates are luck or skill based. Seriously, either stop being a douche or kindly stick to your own blog.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Franky Frank is actually pretty solid, imo.

I feel darn comfortable with him marching in for the ninth next year.

As good as I’ve felt since Gagne was smoke-and-mirrors’ing his way through the summer of ’07 here.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 5:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dude

also had a 6+ ERA as a starter. A good relief prospect is worth an average catcher, and that’s all Daniel Bard will ever be.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But that’s as a starter. He projects as a reliever…

His first couple season were really bad. He was WILD. But now he has locked it down, strikes out a lot of people and walks few.

by Randy Booth on Dec 20, 2008 5:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He has 4.7 BB/9 in AA

as a 23 year old. please stop talking.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow. Okay. Way to stereotype a Rangers fan. Adios.

by Randy Booth on Dec 20, 2008 5:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey you

Red Sox fan, I think I speak for the rest of the country when I say: Go eat a dick.

Thanks
-Rangers Fan

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You just

speak for yourself. Stop being a jerk.

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Dec 20, 2008 5:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't you have some

incredibly out of date, thrice posted data that you should be posting right now?

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is there any reason...

you are being an incredible dick at the moment?

It doesn’t seem that anyone did anything to you personally to start insulting others.

by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 20, 2008 6:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Meh

it’s my winter break celebration

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

haha...

We should all just insult each other on New Years.

It could be cathartic.

by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 20, 2008 7:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll be happy

to post an insult diary on New Years Day.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 20, 2008 9:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, hey, you, the guy right there

yeah, you.

You’re a real knee-biter.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 10:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Man...

please do.

My friends and I we get together usually right after Christmas and have a dinner where we air our grievances for the past year. It’s incredible. We lose a lot of terrible new boy friends and girlfriends of pals that way.

by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 20, 2008 11:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bitch days

should be kept private among great friends, otherwise, you do what everyone else does – talk behind other people’s backs.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 11:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

heh

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 21, 2008 12:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Indeed, sir...

it’s a Festivus miracle!

by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 21, 2008 2:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's the dumbest idea you've ever had, and you're the king of dumb ideas.

Also you’re an ugly virgin who likes to make out with his first cousins.

Plus, what’s up with the halitosis, broseph? Do you they not sell Listerine where you live, or what’s the deal there?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 9:59 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah?

Well, you sir (or should I say ma’am?) have a terrible face. That’s right. I said it. The region above your neck is not attractive or pleasant to look for any one person.

Also, the breath thing is from making out with your first cousins, as well. Which, it makes me think, maybe it is something that runs along the family tree. Rotten fruit as it were.

Basically, what I am saying is you are a terrible gentleman and possibly an inadequate lover. At least, that is the rumors I’ve had told to me in the boudoir of your former exploits.

by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 20, 2008 10:59 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

How dare you, sir!?

I’ll have you know that in truth I have never taken a lover.

Some say it’s because I’m waiting for true love before giving myself to a woman.

But most say it’s more because of my extreme ugliness and the rank odor the emanates from my man-nipples.

by thedirkatron on Dec 21, 2008 3:54 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Ah...

but fellow, I was trying to spare you from this grand embarrassment. You see, I was aware of these issues you presented, but it wasn’t something I was hoping you’d find prudent of me to discuss to others on the Internet.

I will say though, chum, chin up. I have heard that there is a small cache of ladies whom mind not either odor, nor one’s appearance. Soon, and frankly not soon enough, you could very well be neck deep in non-judgmental vagoo.

As they say, it isn’t the man of the nipples, it is the nipples of the man. Think about it.

by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 21, 2008 4:24 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Im rec'ing the last 4 comments.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Dec 21, 2008 8:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dude...

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 5:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Chill

dude runs a moderately popular Red Sox blog out of the thousands that exist in the great cyberwaste land, big whoop.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

so thats a reason to be a douchebag?

uhhh no

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Haha

you’re one of the last people that should be lecturing others about being a douchebag.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

because i rail on hurley that makes me a douchebag?

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dude please

you’re so beyond the level of railing when it comes to Eric Hurley. It’s been one of the most steadily reliable features of this blog. Even then, it’s more the fact that you treat anyone who defends Hurley as half retarded and you find a way to bring it into every thread.

Like I said, let’s not throw stones in glass houses, we all have bad tendencies. I don’t presume to lecture you about your rabid Hurley hate, don’t act like a wedgied nun.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

uhh what?

this is something that didnt even START until he came up and everyone started loving him after 2-3 starts at the major league level.

how do i treat them as half retarded, i only do that with ppl who think hurley is a top of the rotation guy now.

but man, blasting people for no reason is kinda foolish.

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That said...

I could still see Hurley starting a game three or four playoff game for the Rangers.

I still has he has a Brett Myers-esque (non-wife beating) type of career in him.

by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 20, 2008 6:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hey if hes a brett myers or millwood im happy

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 7:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Come on man

don’t do this shit again. You not only ragged on Hurley, but you acted like you were some unique spectacle pointing out his faults. No shit, and the way you constantly brought it up was quite douchebaggy.

And for the record, no one has explained to me how the fuck someone claims Daniel bard is a pitcher with great control without being either illiterate or retarded, so I feel fully justified for telling a guy who amounts to a bad salesman to shove it.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

im ashamed to be a member of the same blog as you.

very sad.

t ball on MY - "hate the contract, don't hate the player"

by bspate on Dec 21, 2008 8:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I really hope you are kidding

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 21, 2008 9:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Then make sure

people who like to post random statements like “Daniel Bard walks few guys” understand that they’re wrong.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

There’s a better way to go about disagreeing with that statement than to tell someone to stop talking. Particularly other SBNation bloggers.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 5:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You're welcome to

put up a disclaimer that members of LSB doesn’t speak for you, but when someone maintains something that is patently false, I don’t see why we should give them leeway because they happen to be a SBNation blogger.

Especially when they drag a whole damn virtual short bus with them.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You really are

a bit out of line here tonight.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 20, 2008 9:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Step off of it

Like I said, Adam is welcomed to say “that douche FirebatM3 doesn’t speak for this blog” and that’s fine, but let’s not pretend that we’re all missing the scintillating discussion brought by Red Sox fan about how Daniel Bard is the second coming with his 100 mph fastball and his cancer-curing performance this year.

Sorry if I offend your Victorian sensibilities dude, but I stand by my statement that the Red Sox guy and most of his shortbus can go EABOD.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 10:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And I stand by my feeling that you were pretty mean to that guy for no reason in this thread.

All he did was talk about how good he thought his guy was and you immediately started in with the flames.

But, whatever.

We all snap and say things from time to time.

I’ve probably flamed every single member of this board at one time or another.

I was once mean to an Angels fan for very little reason, pretty much for no reason other than that he got on my nerves by being a living Angels fan, so I know how it can be when an opposing team’s fan gets under your skin and you decide to go after him to make him go away. IIRC, I was pretty drunk for that. Wow. It was meaner than I remember. Heh.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 11:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That thread

was pretty epic, even for a Politics thread

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 11:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You could have been meaner

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 20, 2008 11:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That was

I remember that douche. I wanted more destruction.

by brettgardner on Dec 20, 2008 11:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Er.

That was wonderful.

by brettgardner on Dec 20, 2008 11:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You should've joined in.

You’re not up to my standards obviously, but you’re a pretty hateful hater yourself when you get going.

I don’t know that we’ve ever tandem-hated on anyone.

I’m pretty sure the force of a Dirkatron/Brett Gardner tandem-hate could end the world as we know it.

by thedirkatron on Dec 21, 2008 3:46 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Tandem hate

tag team insults has potential.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 21, 2008 4:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Screw you.

Only most of his shortbus? See, you’ve already calmed down a bit.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 21, 2008 5:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Do you not understand English nor statistics?

He said he WAS wild, WAS. An incredibly wild at that, leading to inflated statistics of wildness, such as walks. Meaning, that he might now have grown into being a player who is better than his past numbers indicate.

by Gnick on Dec 20, 2008 5:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So

we should put no stock in what he IS now?

by Longhorn on Dec 20, 2008 5:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

4.7 BB/9

that’s a guy who gives up quite a bit of walks, we don’t exactly have fangraphs data to know how many of his pitches fall outside the zone, but the only indicator that we do have (BB/9) shows that he is still very wild. Not to mention that the only year that he has been good (this year) was a mere 100 innings stretched between two levels, neither of which being AAA or the majors (which is important considering the dude is 23). Seriously, what part of “Dude still walked a lot of guys” in AA is wrong?

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

As he progressed in AA

He began to walk less guys. Therefore, his numbers at the beginning of the year in which he did walk a ton of guys place an undue burden upon his final numbers.

by Gnick on Dec 20, 2008 5:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sigh

Daniel Bard BB% for

May – 7.4%
June – 10.8%
July – 15.4%
August – 15.2%

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:48 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

You know what Randy

Don’t worry about these chumps. If they don’t want what we’re offering, then to hell with them. Either way we’re infinitely better off then they are for 2009 and beyond.

by Gnick on Dec 20, 2008 5:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh good point

Genius, really.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 20, 2008 5:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You are right

we don’t want a pile of shit for a top of the line catcher.

Miami bound...

by boomer1 on Dec 20, 2008 5:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What they really want is

Salty for a new box of balls.

Miami bound...

by boomer1 on Dec 20, 2008 5:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The stereotype of a Red Sox fan

Is someone who points out the blatantly obvious fact that the Red Sox are a better team than the Rangers going into the 2009 season?

by Gnick on Dec 20, 2008 5:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

heh
Is someone who points out the blatantly obvious

Yep, sounds like a BoSox fan to me.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 20, 2008 5:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

By that logic

We’re pointing out how good Bowden and Bard are, therefore we must be correct, because as you said we point out the blatantly obvious.

by Gnick on Dec 20, 2008 5:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

They are good

But they are not worth Salty or Tea straight up. Don’t be ridiculous.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 20, 2008 5:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think they are

We would need to add another one of our good prospects like Kalish or Reddick and probably another guy for it to be fair.

by Gnick on Dec 20, 2008 5:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why would Texas want

either of those guys, especially given their OF glut, their minor league CF depth and the fact that both are only average prospects (and Kalish was well below average this year)?

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why would Texas want Kalish?

Seriously?

He’s a nice prospect.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 6:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kalish?

Kalish put up a .700 OPS this year on two levels. I’d be much more interested in reddick, but really, the only way either of those guys have value is if they stay in CF or if they have a Kinsler in 2004 type breakout.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kalish

He was also a 20 year old in the Sally League. And he’s got a lot of upside. Sickels has him as a B-, which isn’t unreasonable, I don’t think.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 6:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

At this point

do you think either Kalish or Reddick covers the difference between Bowden/Bard and Buchholz? I don’t think either of them does, especially given our depth of CF from Arlington down to Bakersfield next year and the fact that neither were particularly impressive this past year.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

Probably not. But then, I don’t think Salty for Buchholz is reasonable, either. I think Salty for Bowden and Kalish isn’t unreasonable.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 7:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well then

I guess I disagree. I don’t see the point of trading a guy that can be very good (Salty) for two guys with either very limited ceilings or a very limited chance to reach those ceilings.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 7:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

On a pure value stance?

No.

But I think given that JD holds the cards, I don’t think it’s an absurd deal like Bard+Kalish for Salty would be.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 7:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

I think Bowden plus Kalish for Salty is more reasonable than Salty for Buchholz.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 7:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's your perogative

I think that Buchholz being 24 years old and having a fairly miserable, fairly extensive tryout in big leagues means that his value isn’t nearly as high as it was a year ago. He’s still got more value than Salty, but not enough where I’d be willing to settle for Bowden+Kalish.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 7:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Adam

What do you think about how JD was offered Bowden 2 years in a row (reportedly) and refused both time? Also, Keith Law seems extremely down on Bowden.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 20, 2008 8:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I have to think...

…the Rangers aren’t as high on Bowden as some others are.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 8:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Rangers are making a mistake then.

Bowden’s stats are impressive. I believe more in statistics than scouts. Statistics in baseball are facts, they are indisputable. Scouting by eye is mostly based on opinion and has a large margin for error, which can lead to wrong assumptions and miscalculations. Can scouts explain why Guardado, with his lack of stuff, pitched better than Nippert last year? I know they will mention the word “command” in their response to that question. Well, Bowden has that type of “command” and it leads to those good statistics.

by coolrangersfan on Dec 20, 2008 9:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

They seem to place more importance on scouts though

I am not saying to disregard scouting completely. I just think that statistics should have a higher priority in the evaluation of a player.

by coolrangersfan on Dec 20, 2008 9:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This is a complicated argument

And I don’t know that you can just flat say that they put more importance on scouts than stats, really.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 9:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

One example of that is when they dumped Littleton.

His stats were not bad at all. It had to be because of his stuff or something related to scouting. Also, what has John Bannister done statistically to earn a spot on the 40? I know he has been getting his fastball up to the mid-90s lately but so did Jason Davis throughout his career and where did that get him? Didn’t he just sign a contract to play in Japan or something?

by coolrangersfan on Dec 20, 2008 9:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that you...

…are vastly oversimplifying.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 9:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not convinced it was "Bowden or Gabbard".

The 40 Trumps All!!!

There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.

by thedirkatron on Dec 20, 2008 10:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Gabbard...

…is a big favorite of the scouty types.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 10:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Red Sox broke the curse and won the WS

twice after hiring Bill James as a senior advisor in 2003. What do you think about that?

by coolrangersfan on Dec 20, 2008 10:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Huh?

I’m not sure what your point is.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 10:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My point is that the Red Sox

have been more successful after hiring the “king of statistics” as a senior advisor to Theo. I know that’s only a very small sample but it’s an example of how putting more importance on statistics can lead to success. I am pretty sure James influenced Theo into looking more at stats instead of scouting reports when making an evaluation of a player.

by coolrangersfan on Dec 20, 2008 10:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Again...

…I think you are over-simplifying things. Yes, the Red Sox have been more statistically-oriented in recent years, but I wouldn’t assume that the reason why that’s the case, and why Epstein leans on statistical analysis, is because James is there.

Boston also has spent big money on “scouty” types (Ryan Kalish and Engel Beltre spring to mind). The real stats vs. scouts debate comes into play in amateur scouting and in the minor leagues…generally speaking, at the major league level, you’ve got enough information that the stats tell most of the story. But on the minor league level — particularly the lower levels — and in the amateur ranks, it is a lot harder to just lean on stats and ignore the scouting aspect of things.

Boston has a model that fuses the two. I don’t think you can credibly say that the BoSox drafted Clay Buchholz in 2005, or are refusing to consider dealing him now, because of Bill James or because of what the stats say about Buchholz.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 10:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

good point, you win that argument.

But I still don’t understand why the Rangers are so high on Bannister and low on Littleton. I know Littleton was out of options, but they should had at least let him compete for a spot in spring training instead of trading him away like that. Yet, Josh Rupe, who allowed a .821 OPS last year, is so highly regarded as a reliever. (Littleton’s OPS allowed was .701 last year)

by coolrangersfan on Dec 20, 2008 10:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We don't know how decisions

are made, but I’d be shocked if JD didn’t have access to the surface stats that you’ve been posting.

I think we can safely say that we don’t have access to the more advanced stats a lot of teams use or the scouting expertise they have access to (which still does come up with a few good ones – ala Chris Davis or Derek Holland).

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 10:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

lol

What?

Engel might have had something to do with that.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Dec 20, 2008 10:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You must believe in surface stats

because most of Bowden’s peripherals show that he’s exactly what the scouts say he is.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 9:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

For pitchers, I look at OPS allowed

I know there are more sophisticated statistics out there but they are all relative. They do not contradict each other.

by coolrangersfan on Dec 20, 2008 9:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Last year at AA at age 21

Bowden 104.1 72 31 27 5 24 101

H/9 6.2 Great
HR/9 0.4 Great
BB/9 2.1 Very Good
K/9 8.7 Good
ERA 2.33 Great
WHIP 0.92 Great (Even though I don’t think WHIP is a good stat to use since it doesn’t differentiate a single from a homerun or a walk from a double.)

Of course he was repeating this level so that takes away some of the excellence but still these are pretty good numbers. I don’t know why the Rangers are avoiding him if you say that statisticians and the scouts are on the same page regarding Bowden.

by coolrangersfan on Dec 20, 2008 9:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

GB rate

check that, look at how his HR/9 is so low despite his horrifically awful FB rate. Look at his swingK%.

The scouts say that the he’s a guy without a great fastball and without great movement on it, but has good peripheral pitches. His peripherals bear that out almost to a T. The different between Bowden this year is mainly because that HR/9, which is a product of luck.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 10:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Better yet

check out the declining peripherals. The K% went from 25% (which is great) became 18% in AAA (which is acceptable). However, it’s not the world beating great that you expect from a first class prospect.

So you essentially have a guy who gives up a lot of flyballs, strikes out less people than probably optimal and had a great AA season partly because of a .250ish BABIP, which is 30 pts lower than his career rate (and his rate in AAA). That screams mid-rotation guy to me.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 10:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He is likely mid-rotation, I agree

But it seems like JD wants no part of him in a trade. He would be nice to have just not at a high cost. If we could had chosen him over Gabbard in that Gagne trade then I wonder why it wasn’t done.

by coolrangersfan on Dec 20, 2008 10:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Remember

last year, dude had a 1.Something ERA, I think it can be safely said that JD, or someone on the scouting staff, doesn’t like him as a pitcher.

Like I said, he has had a great year, but at the same time, you can see some definite trouble signs with this guy.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 10:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well then forget Bowden, I hope we get Buchholz for Salty+

and then sign Sheets. Randy Johnson would be nice too. Man how good would we be in 2009 with that rotation. Also, there are plenty of relievers out there to help us out too. Springer, Ohman, Nelson, Guardado, etc. But if the Rangers do not want to spend too much on a reliever then Hendrickson is your guy. He is a sleeper as a lefty specialist on a minor league deal.

by coolrangersfan on Dec 20, 2008 10:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And you should really use K% stats

and BB% stats instead of per 9 stats. They are much better for reflecting a player’s true ability.

www.firstinning.com has all the relevant info, not sure how they track it though.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 10:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

fwiw

Sickels has Teagarden as a B, Bowden as a B+, Kalish as a B-.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 7:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

To the best of my knowledge

I don’t think that counts for much other than showing that Bowden was truly awesome this year (which he was) and Kalish and TT both had trouble this year (which they did). I’d say given position and defensive polish and the current state of the market, I’d value TT above both.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 7:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kalish B-?

He didn’t even make BA’s top 10. He might have potential, but as of now the guy has no power. That grade seems a little high. What did Reddick get?

by coolrangersfan on Dec 20, 2008 7:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

People can disagree. Kalish was apparently one of 3 or 4 guys considered for the last spot, and it isn’t like Boston has a crap farm.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 7:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kalish is not even on Baseball America's Top 10 list for Boston anymore

Reddick is ranked no. 5 in the Red Sox system. I don’t think they are of equal value. Reddick is obviously my choice between the two if I had to choose between them. However, I would not trade Salty or Teagarden for anything less than Buchholz if it was up to me (unless the Red Sox offer Bowden AND Masterson).

by coolrangersfan on Dec 20, 2008 7:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Justin Masterson

when did he become God’s gift to pitching coaches? Dude had a 4.1 BB/9 and a 6.1K/9. His one great skill is the his GB%, and that’s not overwhelmingly awesome.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 7:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

When did Salty become...

….God’s gift to hitting coaches?

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 7:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He ain't

but he’s a young guy that has a history of hitting well, better than Masterson’s corresponding pitching stats. Furthermore, he has a chance to play C, one of the most offensively barren positions in all of baseball. If the choice is between what looks like a good middle reliever and an above-average with the potential to be excellent hitting catcher, I’ll take the catcher.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 7:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

See

I never got this type of reasoning. I don’t see Bowden or Masterson as guys who’d be great, and given that what this team needs are guys who can front a rotation, how does two average guys offset the fact that you wouldn’t be getting a great player?

The way I see it, the replacement for Buchholz should be a guy that’s got a chance to be as good as Buchholz, and I don’t see Bowden or Masterson as that guy.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 7:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It does, normally

but does it really in a system like ours, with plenty of depth? Or more accurately, should we attempt to accumulate quantity when we already have so much, rather than focusing that one, singular type of pitcher who could front a rotation.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 7:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How is Bowden average?

His stats are pretty good in the minors. Masterson could possibly end up being an average pitcher, but he has done something Buchholz has yet to do, which is pitch well at the majors for one full season (although he did it mostly as a reliever). Of course that doesn’t make Masterson better than Buchholz though.

by coolrangersfan on Dec 20, 2008 7:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So you want Hagadone? He’s the only guy with the potential to be as good as Buchholz (if he comes close to reaching his potential) probably.

by Brett Perryman on Dec 20, 2008 7:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If he comes in a deal with Bowden

yes, I’d want Hagadone over Masterson or Kalish.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 7:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I’d love to get my hands on Hagadone. We would not get both him and Bowden for a catcher (or a catcher and something less), so I guess it depends on whether we’re talking hypothetically or realistically. There is no purpose, other than for idle discussion, to debate whether we would do that.

by Brett Perryman on Dec 20, 2008 7:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What I wanted

A month/months ago was Bard+Hagadone+Tejeda for Salty. Thats likely too much but I’d rather the Rangers ask for too much and just ending up hanging onto all 3 rather than settling for less.

by groundingout on Dec 21, 2008 10:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

One thing about that

It’s boom/bust enough that it’s the sort of thing that you could sort of picture both teams doing. I think it’s probably too much too, but you also can’t point to any one of those guys as being worth Saltalamacchia, so they should have to stack up some interesting players. I guess it depends a lot on how far down the road Hagadone is.

by Brett Perryman on Dec 21, 2008 6:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This is actually quite funny.

Not to insert my self squarely in the middle of a shitstorm, but all the Red Sox fans I know personally have trouble distinguishing between their fantasy trades for their beloved SAWWWWWWWWWWX and trades that Theo & Co. can actually make with competent GMs. When questioned about said trades, they usually get either mildly annoyed or overly belligerent.

Then I read this gem:

Don’t worry about these chumps. If they don’t want what we’re offering, then to hell with them.

by LiamP on Dec 20, 2008 5:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

You need the pitching much more than we need the hitting, so if you don’t want to play then you can talk to someone else.

by Gnick on Dec 20, 2008 5:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Let me ask this

What do you think is a reasonable trade between Boston and Texas for Salty? What about Teagarden?

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 5:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Reasonable

I’d say Bowden + someone young with a high ceiling in A ball or so would be right for Salty, and Bowden + Kalish or Reddick, and another youngster would be right for Teagarden.

by Gnick on Dec 20, 2008 5:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well according to Gammons

The Rangers should be kissing the Red Sox feet if they offered Bowden by himself for either catcher.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 20, 2008 6:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

im not sure this is so off what the red sox think

but salty > bowden imho

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

For Teagarden?

Bowden + Masterson + someone. I’m not sure on Salty, because while I love his swing I’m still not convinced he could stick at catcher but if he could about the same package, maybe a bit bigger.

I’m asking this as a fan, who has the bigger upside, Teagarden or Salty?

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Dec 20, 2008 5:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Teagarden and Salty

I’m a Teagarden fan, but I think Salty has more upside given his bat.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Dec 20, 2008 5:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Salty, I think

His offensive ceiling is much higher than Teagarden’s.

Teagarden could, if everything broke perfectly, be Mickey Tettleton with Gold Glove caliber defense.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 5:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"Mickey Tettleton with Gold Glove caliber defense"

Sounds awesome to me, I’ve heard some good stuff about his defense.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Dec 20, 2008 5:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Tea

has fairly large injury concerns as well.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 20, 2008 5:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No question

That would be one of the best catchers in the league. And Teagarden is, by all accounts, a special defensive catcher. He’s not going to hit for average, but he’s someone who would probably be a nice major league starting catcher if he just hits .220.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 5:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

His OBP in the minors is awesome, even without a great BA

I think I underrated his potential a bit, never took the time to look at his numbers. Are those injury concerns anything big, like a Baldelli condition or so?

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Dec 20, 2008 5:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not a chance

I played against him for a bit in for quite a bit in HS and in college summer lgs. Always was healthy then. I really cant explain his injury problems. He was durable at UT and at Creekview.

by Michael Cave on Dec 20, 2008 6:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Just a litany of problems

Back problem, T-J surgery that cost him 2006, various other things.

by Adam J. Morris on Dec 20, 2008 6:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sad stuff to hear

Are his back problems anything really serious, like JD Drew? JD is a sure bet to miss time because of that every season.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Dec 20, 2008 6:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No

TT has never gotten his spine replaced with the inner filling of a Twinkie, to the best of my knowledge.

Back problems that TT had were pretty generic, a pulled muscle that he recovered from pretty nicely. It’s that one faulty arm that has been the cause of a lot of the recurring injuries.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 6:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Salty

and it’s not particularly close.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Really?

Did Salty improve his defense this much? His glove was a question mark earlier, I was one of many who thought he’d become a 1Bman in the future.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Dec 20, 2008 5:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The point is

Salty’s bat has that much upside that it can cover his suspect D.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 20, 2008 5:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I do love his swing, especially for a catcher

Also, awesome nickname, best movie of the 90’s.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Dec 20, 2008 5:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The thing is

Salty not only has a better bat, but he has a shorter injury history at an younger age. More so, the only problem of his defense is the WP%, so while you don’t want him catching Wakefield, he can probably handle everyone else on the staff just fine. He’s not exactly slow nor is he some weak-armed pansy, so everything he needs to work on can improve with repetition.

That just sounds like a younger player getting his reps in to me.

Tea is a much better bet to stay at C, but he’s had a long history of injuries, especially elbow injuries. There’s still a lot to like, but there are more questions with his ability.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 5:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't know about Teagarden's injury problems

And the few times I’ve watched Salty behind the plate, I actually didn’t believe he could ever throw out a baserunner. I heard he’s getting better at it, and he’s still young enough to figure it out.

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Dec 20, 2008 5:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Fine

I’m sure the Rangers don’t want the Sox trash for a top of the line catcher. You think we should just bow down and take what ever is offered and be grateful because you are the mighty Sox?

Miami bound...

by boomer1 on Dec 20, 2008 5:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

now this guy, yes

he is a douchebag

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 20, 2008 6:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

walks few

that’s not very accurate.

by Longhorn on Dec 20, 2008 5:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair

I think Bard is getting pretty underrated by most here atm. He’s not worth either catcher straight up but a package could be made with him. At this point though, if its not Buchholz, which it won’t be, I’m all for letting Tea/Salty share ML time with Max in AAA. Their value could then skyrocket, but also drop off. There is much more room for them to go up though, especially Salty’s.

by groundingout on Dec 21, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Catchers

At this point, why trade any of them unless you are blown away? They all have options left, none have reached their potential and we have space for all 3. Unless somebody comes up with a great offer, I keep the lot of them.

Fire Ron Washington

by pblack on Dec 20, 2008 5:19 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

JD should have all the leverage here. If your offered a buchholz or a Phil Hughes, then of course you take it. If not, go into next year with all three and let them battle it out. These things have a way of working themselves out.

by Schrute Farms on Dec 20, 2008 7:14 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed

I was semi worried that we’d have 4 catchers come April but three, especially these three, I’m ok with bring all back.

Also rec’d because you spelled your name right this go round.

by groundingout on Dec 21, 2008 11:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

That’s where I’m at at this point. Unless we get what we want, we should keep them. It’s true any one of them could be at the peak of their value right now, but if you’re not going to get that peak value in return then you’re better off keeping them all.

"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."

by lonestarJon on Dec 20, 2008 10:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But at what point

due you have to trade one of them? When do you start wasting talent down on AAA or on the bench?

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Dec 20, 2008 10:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

When you

determine which one you want to keep long term. I don’t know if there’s a hard deadline for either guy until you’ve figured out who is your catcher of the future.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 10:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yup

Myself I think the only guy we might have to trade will be Max (if and when Justin Smoak reaches the majors and forces Davis to DH). But if Salty comes out ahead of Tea (and I still believe he will be the better player, ultimately) I could see the Rangers rolling with Salty as the #1 guy and Tea as an oft-used backup, at least for awhile. Kinda like the Indians have done with VicMart and Kelly Shoppach the past couple years.

"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."

by lonestarJon on Dec 20, 2008 10:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We're going to jinx

Justin Smoak one of these days, with everyone penciling him for the 2010 lineup and all.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 10:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No way

People said the same thing when everyone was penciling DVD into the rotation and we all know that was just complete and utter bull sh…

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 20, 2008 11:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We only said rotation

by which we meant the Reds, White Sox and Roughriders rotations.

by FirebatM3 on Dec 20, 2008 11:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs