Solving the DH issue
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 11:00 AM CST
172 comments
I made a tongue-in-cheek post last night about the 2009 DH, but one of the things that arose in the comments was the question of what, realistically, the Rangers are really going to do at DH next year.
Personally, I think there's a relatively obvious and easy solution, even if (as is widely suspected) Hank Blalock is dealt.
Let Taylor Teagarden start the season as the starting catcher. Let him catch 110-120 games. Let Jarrod Saltalamacchia start the remainder of the games, and get another 70-80 games at DH.
You then have 80-90 games where you can mix in Frank Catalanotto (if he's still around), Josh Hamilton (when you want to give him a rest), or someone else on your bench.
You let Max Ramirez go to AAA and catch every day, rather than just consigning him to a DH role from this point forward.
You let both your young catchers get significant playing time.
You free up a bench spot, because you presumably aren't carrying a third catcher.
Your downside is that half the time, your backup catcher would be DHing, and thus you'd lose your DH if you have to switch catchers. But conceptually, you could see if someone like German Duran (who appears likely to make the team as a utility player) could get some time behind the plate in spring training so that, in case of emergency, he could fill in for an inning or two.
It seems easy and simple enough to me. Now, if you could pick up Pat Burrell or someone like that on a cheap one year deal, I'd re-think things. But for where we stand now, this seems like the way to go.
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I don't think Blalock will be traded
But if he is, put Max at DH and that position is solved for the foreseeable future. Supposed trade value be damned, we have a need for a RH masher, and we have one that is ML ready. Play Max at DH, it ain’t complicated.
Don't believe the hype about sloppy seconds. They ain't bad.
by tricer on Dec 26, 2008 11:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
Having Salty at DH for half the season isn’t solving the problem that the Rangers seem to have at C. They want to give significant playing time behind the plate, not simply AT it, to Salty because they feel he has earned the chance to be looked at over the course of an entire season there.
Now, obviously, if Salty gets traded, this argument is a moot point. But it seems to me that, in that case, it would put Salty behind the plate all season, in this case, with Teagarden going back to AAA. It’s not a perfect situation by any means, but it seems the most realistic from management’s perspective. If Teagarden is your future C, then why sit him for half the year? Same question applies to Salty, only without the ‘if he’s your future’ part. Max seems to be the most reasonable choice at DH, he’s you backup C on Salty’s off-days, and you’ve got Teagarden getting more seasoned at AAA, ready to step in if someone gets injured.
"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin
by utlonghorn24 on Dec 26, 2008 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why should Teagarden go back to AAA?
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I personally don't think he should.
What I’m saying is that in this situation, it would seem that with Salty catching every day, and Max as your DH, Teagarden does the team no good from the bench. He would go to AAA to play every day and get time. I only say this because management seems hell-bent on starting Salty as long as he’s here.
"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin
by utlonghorn24 on Dec 26, 2008 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get this at all.
Given Tea’s injury history, catching him 110-120 games seems like a perfect work load. You let Salty catch the other 40-50 games and get a ton of AB’s at DH. Given his ability to switch hit, you’ve got your RH DH problem solved for 2009. If we get a chance to sell Salty, it will be because of his bat. His defense isn’t going to get substantially better. Tea doesn’t need more seasoning. I think he did a very good job of showing he was ready at the end of last season. He never looked over matched. MaxRam, on the other hand, often did. He’s the one that needs a little more time in the minors.
by Athos on Dec 26, 2008 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But aren't we just going back to Laird/Salty all over again with this?
I think the biggest issue is that the club wants a starting catcher, and only one for right now. That means someone has to ride the bench the majority of the time, and while I agree that Max needs the most seasoning of the three, he seems to be the best fit in the backup role right now. As I said above, trading one of Salty or Teagarden will alleviate a whole lot of our C issues, and would make a decision on who plays where considerably less difficult.
"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin
by utlonghorn24 on Dec 26, 2008 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why play Max at DH and quit on him being a catcher?
With Smoak also coming up and Davis being here, moving Max to DH permanently next year creates a future log jam. And you limit the trade value of Max since you’ve now said that he is only a DH.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would agree, but I don't want to hinder Max's long term progress as a catcher.
His bat will be so much more valuable as a catcher.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Dec 26, 2008 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hank won’t get traded until he’s proven out a few hundred ABs. He’s expensive and an unknown quantity.
The idea of giving the backup catcher and DH roles to one player is obvious when you have two good offensive catchers.
But no one ever does it. What teams always do is carry a guy on their 25 who does nothing but spell the starter once a week. If that small role could be expanded to DH ABs, well, why doesn’t anyone do it?
I think the reason is it’s too much for one player to both catch and then also DH a few hundred ABs a year.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Dec 26, 2008 11:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think....
The reason that teams don’t do it is most teams are lucky to have 1 catcher that can hit on their roster…not to mention 2 talented guys.
I wonder that even if Blalock is kept that we might not see Hank ant 1B….Davis at 3B….Salt DH….and Tea at catcher preparing for Smoak’s arrival, unless they just feel Davis will never be an average 3B.
by death of the cool on Dec 26, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Rangers shouldn't be signing a hitter
when they have these internal options. If they’re going to sign someone it should be Sheets.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 26, 2008 12:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
If you presuppose
that Hank is traded (and the trade return doesn’t factor into the DH position), that Wash won’t DH the second catcher enough, that the org is keen on keeping Max as a catcher (even if it means keeping him at Oklahoma until Spetember), and that Burell or Dunn could come in on a redux of Milton’s contract this year, it does make a little sense. But that’s a lot of presuppositions.
by Keynes on Dec 26, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
The thing is, if they don’t sign Sheets or Fuentes, I think their best use of resources is to add someone like Burrell on a one year deal and trade Hank.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A trade
would definitely change things, but I am not real optimistic they’ll get any value for Hank, which means they hold onto him for a while. Burrell would be a hell of a lot better than Sheffield, though, holy crap.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 26, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what makes you think burrell would be amenable to a one-year deal?
even with the potential for a depressed FA market (though clearly not in the top tier), i cant see someone like burrell taking a one year contract so that he can put off his big deal till an off-season with more cash floating around. There’s no guarantee things will be better in 09 and he might end up having to take another 1-yr deal to put of signing the big one. by that time he’ll be 34 and will have trouble getting too long a deal anyway. its not like he has any added value to prove. he has been remarkably consistent at doing what he does. if anything, taking a 1yr deal risks injury or performance decline that could permanently sabotage his value and would be kind of absurd for a 32 year old to do.
Never rule out Jim Bowden.
That guy is effing crazy.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Dec 26, 2008 4:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the exact same thing,
except I substituted Max for Salty. I can see that Max probably needs a little bit more refinement in the minors, and giving the playing time to Salty would be a good way to increase his trade value (he says, hopefully). In any regard, I hope someone in the Rangers’ front office had a similar idea.
by jwiscarson on Dec 26, 2008 12:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Question
With five outfielders probable on the 25, and two more in the minors who could be fetched up in an emergency, why is DH relevant to just the catching situation? Is there some compelling reason that Murphy, Byrd, Cruz, or Boggs (or even the Hambone) cannot DH, situationally? You have two RH bats, two LH bats, and a switch hitter in that mix. Surely you can play three, DH one, and sit one depending on who the opposing starter is to be. And generally speaking, none of the mixtures is especially harmful to OF defense.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Dec 26, 2008 12:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think Hamilton is possible
to make sure he is better rested, but I would guess that this team wants to try and only play the other OFs when they can be in the field since their defense is a huge part of why they are good players. I think Bogs might also be a possibility to get ABs against lefties, but it seems like you are wasting his defense by DHing him.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My only problem is developing Tea and Salty behind as well as at the plate.
I think whoever is DHing a particular day should be based on splits. Salty hits righties well, so he should DH against them. Against lefties sit him or have him catch and use the best person possible at DH. Granted, I’m not saying these are hard and fast rules but they should just maximize the 25 they got.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Dec 26, 2008 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Murphy probably shouldn’t be playing against LHPs. And I suspect Boggs starts the season in AAA.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you think Boggs starts in AAA?
Just curious.
"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin
by utlonghorn24 on Dec 26, 2008 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because there is no room
without a trade of Murphy or Byrd.
Boggs is the prototypical 4th OF’er. Excellent defense at any OF position and will smack against LHP’s. That is very valuable if it’s on the cheap. It’s basically JMJ with much better defense (hmm..).
"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."
- The Huntressatron
by Chase Irwin on Dec 27, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
win this year or 2010
Let Taylor Teagarden start the season as the starting catcher. Let him catch 110-120 games. Let Jarrod Saltalamacchia start the remainder of the games, and get another 70-80 games at DH.
Well if your goal is to win this year then that may be the way to go. Winning in 2010 and beyond is my goal. Saltalamacchia needs to prove he is an everyday catcher in the MLs. Your proposal decreases his value.
You then have 80-90 games where you can mix in Frank Catalanotto (if he’s still around), Josh Hamilton (when you want to give him a rest), or someone else on your bench.
You have 162 games where you can rotate your everyday players through DH to give them a rest. Let Boggs, Duran or Arias DH vs lefties. Also, trade Blalock.
You let Max Ramirez go to AAA and catch every day, rather than just consigning him to a DH role from this point forward.
Yea, we agree on this.
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Dec 26, 2008 12:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
If Salty is catching every day in the majors...
…and Max is catching every day in AAA, what are you doing with Teagarden?
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Backup
Tea seems like an ideal second wheel to me, really.
"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."
by lonestarJon on Dec 26, 2008 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
Because he’s better than Saltalamacchia?
by brettgardner on Dec 26, 2008 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
good defenders
Make good backups.
"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."
by lonestarJon on Dec 26, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And
Shitty defenders make good starters? Oh OK.
by brettgardner on Dec 26, 2008 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Great bats make great starters
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm?
Well Pujols is a great bat. Should he be a starting catcher?
by brettgardner on Dec 26, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If that was your only option of playing him
Salty isn’t a terrible defender. He’s just not as good as Teagarden. I’d easily take that slight hit in defense for the significantly better offense.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The difference
Between their defense is at least as significant as the difference between their offense. I guess I don’t just flush that down the shitter as easily as you.
by brettgardner on Dec 26, 2008 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No its not
For Teagarden’s defense to be that good, he better not allow a single base runner to advance on him and never have a wild pitch or passed ball.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Um
And what has Salty done offensively to show you that he’s so much better than Teagarden? Maybe I was sleeping when he hit 40 homers last year.
by brettgardner on Dec 26, 2008 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Outside of Teagarden's nice run last year
What has he done to show that he can be a good hitter? The guy has averaged striking out 40% of his time throughout his pro career. What makes you think he can even make contact enough to be good in the Majors. The power is nice, but I doubt the plate discipline works out for him since he can’t make consistent contact. Salty on the other hand has shown that he’s got great plate discipline in the Majors and has more power than Teagarden has in the minors. The main problem for Salty was that he also struck out too much last season on a lot of 2-2 and 3-2 counts which I think will be cut down a lot when he plays everyday and doesn’t get benched the second he starts hitting.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
He hit really well in the minors in 2005 and in 2007. He missed all of 2006 with an injury. His bat wasn’t good in the minors in 2008.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The results were there
but the strikes out were also always there even when he was hitting well. He saw 38.2% of his PAs as strikeouts in his 2007 season in Frisco and 39% in 2008 at Frisco. He struck out only 30.5% of the time in Bakersfield. A lot of people were worried with Davis when he struck out about 25% of the time in Frisco yet everyone is so eager to overlook Teagarden’s problem probably because of what he was able to do in the Majors in those 2 weeks of games.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's not going to hit for average
His K totals are going to be too high for him to hit better than .240-.250.
However, if he hits .250, and he has the type of walk and power numbers in the majors that he’s had in the minors, it is going to be hard for Salty to be the better catcher.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you really see the walk and power numbers sticking?
You are talking about a guy who put up Dunn and Howard type numbers in the minors which doesn’t exactly translate well to the Majors.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I see him being able to put up...
…a .250/.350/.450 line in the majors.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's being pretty optimistic
You think he’s going to still have an OBP .100 higher than his BA?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
He’s got a career 123 point spread between average and OBP in the minors, and a 242 point ISO.
So I think saying he’ll be a major leaguer with a 100 point AVG/OBP spread and 200 ISO, playing half his games in TBIA, isn’t overly optimistic.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He hasn't exactly been young for each level
and you are being very optimistic in thinking his 123 point spread in the minors will translate that well to the Majors when he hasn’t been able to match that at the upper levels f the minors.
And how much of that ISO is skewed by his time in the Cal league?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Even last year, when he struggled with the bat, he had a 107 point spread.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So he just barely
was able to make the 100 point spread, but you still feel confident he’ll be able to do that in the Majors?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 3:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In a bad season in the minors...
…when he had less than 250 ABs, he had a 107 point spread.
That doesn’t lead me to believe that he suddenly won’t be able to do that in the majors.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A bad year in the minors
which happens to be the majority of his playing time in the upper minors and about a 1/3 of his playing time in the minors.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
Even then, he had a 728 OPS as a 24 year old in AAA in a pitcher’s park.
If he’s a 728 OPS guy going forward in the majors, he’s a major league caliber starting catcher.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 4:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
fair enouh
but that doesn’t mean he’s a better option than Salty.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 4:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Question
What do you think the difference is, defensively, between Salty and Teagarden, in terms of runs per season?
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 4:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not that big
I think something like a few runs in the end. Teagarden is supposed to be a great defensive catcher and those are worth what, 10 runs or so? I don’t believe Salty is going to hurt the team with his catching defense and think what he needs is just consistent playing time behind the plate. So you end up with something like 6-7 run difference.
You think Teagarden ends up hitting like .250/.350/450 which is very similar to what Snyder did last season. Snyder had a VORP of 16.6. I guess it depends on what you think Salty will hit like, but if he’s a top 10 catcher with the bat, he’s got a VORP of at least 20. If Salty reaches his offensive potential, he’s going to be worth at least a few more runs than that.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 4:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Teagarden is only a few runs better defensively than Salty...
…then it seems like you are either assuming that:
1) the difference between the best and worst defensive catchers is smaller than it is at most other positions, or
2) Salty is going to be an above-average defensive catcher, despite his problems at this point.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 5:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Salty has more potential offensively
But can you really just assume that he will hit more than Teagarden in the majors? Teagarden has a higher career minor league OPS by 74 points (.899 to Salty’s .825). I understand that Teagarden was older while putting up those numbers and that is important of course, but it is good to also point out that Teagarden crushed major league pitching as soon as he got there. Salty, on the other hand, is stuck on a .726 OPS through his first 506 major league at-bats. Don’t get the wrong idea though, I do think Salty will hit more than Teagarden, but I just think that it is not a given like some people think it is.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 26, 2008 5:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Teagarden's numbers
are inflated by a strong Cal league performance as well as a strong performance in Spokane when originally drafted (and was in line with the rest of the league as far as age is concerned). Salty’s numbers are due to a strong performance in the Carolina league and a great year in AA as well as a good stint in OKC this past season.
And Salty was starting to hit in the Majors just before Laird came back and the Rangers decided to stop letting Salty play at that point.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 5:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he will be at least average
And the difference between the top defensive catchers and the average-above average catchers isn’t that much.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 5:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
notice that the lower the batting average
the easier it is to have that OBP spread. For example, a guy with .200-.300-.400 draws less walks per plate appearance than a guy with .300-.400-.500. However, for the SLG% spread, it is consistent regardless of batting average. That is why Bill James only uses isolated power instead of using both.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 26, 2008 4:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
x
“For example, a guy with .200-.300-.400 draws less walks per plate appearance than a guy with .300-.400-.500.”
Please explain this to me.
by Randy Richardson on Dec 26, 2008 4:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OK
Lets assume there are two hitters, Player A and Player B.
Player A
Plate Appearances 12
At Bats 10
Hits 2 (both are doubles)
Walks 2
Total Bases 4
BA .200 (2/10)
OBP .333 (4/12)
SLG .400 (4/10)
his obp spread is .133
his slg spread is .200
Player B
Plate Appearances 12
At Bats 10
Hits 3 (two doubles and a single)
Walks 2
Total Bases 5
BA .300 (3/10)
OBP .417 (5/12)
SLG .500 (5/10)
his obp spread is .117
his slg spread is .200
Both guys have the same amount of walks, at bats, and plate appearances, but different BA so it leads to a different OBP spread but the same SLG spread. Notice that to get OBP, you use plate appearances, but for SLG you use AB. That is why.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 26, 2008 5:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks
before that I would have thought the only difference between a .200BA/.300OBP hitter and a .300BA/.400OBP hitter is that the former makes more outs.
by Randy Richardson on Dec 26, 2008 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you're welcome
a real player example of this is how Albert Pujols has a career 91 OBP spread (.334/.425). He walks a bit more frequently (15.2% of his AB) in his career than Rob Deer (14.8%) did in his, yet Deer has the larger career OBP spread of 104 (.220/.324) just because of his low BA.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 26, 2008 5:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was sitting here doing the math...
…because I thought, there’s no way that can be right…but it is correct…
What makes it counterintuitive is that you naturally assume that the walks just add a fixed amount to the average to give you the OBP. But in reality, because you are adding 1 to both the numerator and the denominator, you are going to have less of an effect if you are dealing with a larger fraction to start with.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 5:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
that explanation is better than mine.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 26, 2008 5:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the spread idea works perfectly fine with SLG%
since BA and SLG% both have the same denominator (at-bats). OBP doesn’t (plate appearances). I know you already know this, I’m just pointing it out for others.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 26, 2008 6:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Important to remember
that in both of the examples you gave, that would be ok offense for a defensively strong catcher.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 27, 2008 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The results were there
but the strikes out were also always there even when he was hitting well. He saw 38.2% of his PAs as strikeouts in his 2007 season in Frisco and 39% in 2008 at Frisco. He struck out only 30.5% of the time in Bakersfield. A lot of people were worried with Davis when he struck out about 25% of the time in Frisco yet everyone is so eager to overlook Teagarden’s problem probably because of what he was able to do in the Majors in those 2 weeks of games.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is your best point.
And I agree with you throughout this, fwiw.
Thanks for doing all the legwork for me =)
Got any LD % rates to share?
"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."
- The Huntressatron
by Chase Irwin on Dec 27, 2008 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
heh, Teagarden doesn't really do LDs
Has surpassed a 17% LD rate in 2 stints throughout his career. One was in Frisco in 2007 and the other was was in the Majors.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 27, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Salty's 2008 season
is so confusing, for so many reasons, including the handling of his development.
He had a .388 BABIP (!!), yet still produced like crap, while hitting the crap out of the ball? 27.2% LD rate in 230 PA’s. He only hit 30% GB’s. Does this blow your mind, yet?
After the 1.600 OPS against RHP’s in the DWL and 1.400 overall, I’ll be watching him wherever he plays in 2009. Maybe he won’t cream baseballs directly to fielders as much.
"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."
- The Huntressatron
by Chase Irwin on Dec 27, 2008 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What I really want to see out of Salty next year
is a hitter who takes advantage of the full count. Strikeouts usually aren’t that big of an issue but if you don’t hit for Ryan Howard power, then you aren’t allowed to strike out as much as him. Salty was getting fooled on the 3-2 and 2-2 counts after doing a good job of working the count to get there. I think that with more experience like he’s been getting in the DWL, he’ll end up solving that issue and become a great hitter.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 27, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
I think he’ll also get the respect of being a veteran, in terms of borderline calls.
Of course, burying him at the bottom of the lineup won’t help him get as many good pitches to hit, but I think he’ll do well regardless.
"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."
- The Huntressatron
by Chase Irwin on Dec 27, 2008 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think we're looking at the same guy.
Tea has shown remarkable plate discipline in the minors. He draws tons of walks and gets on base at a very healthy clip. And as Adam pointed out, with the exception of 2008 and his injury season, he has hit very well.
by Athos on Dec 26, 2008 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That remarkable plate discipline
resulted in a BB/K ratio of less than .5 at each stop.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
Where are you getting that? He’s not even as low as that for his minor league career. What resource are you studying? To help you out, here are his stats at baseball reference.
by Athos on Dec 26, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here you are
. Looking at it, its looking at percentages and not an exact ratio of BBs to Ks.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 3:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
link didn't show
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5199&position=C/DH
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
You’ve got Boston, who wants Teagarden more than Salty anyway.
If you only think Teagarden is a backup catcher, then why in the world wouldn’t you just ship him off to Boston now for a Bowden/Bard package and be done with it?
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I really
Don’t understand the theory that we should be playing Salty only to increase his value.
Some day you’ll wake up and realize his value hasn’t gone up at all and you’ve got to waste more time developing others. Play the best players and if you don’t have a spot for a guy, send him down or trade him.
by brettgardner on Dec 26, 2008 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin
by utlonghorn24 on Dec 26, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
so Max goes to DH. And counter to the conventional wisdom around here, if he gets a full season of ABs and rakes, then his value goes UP. The best thing a prospect can do to improve his trade value is hit, and hit well, against ML pitching.
"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM
by tricer on Dec 26, 2008 10:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Except then you've
slapped a DH title on Max and scare NL teams off from wanting to trade for him. You also want a guy to start hitting very well against ML pitching when he has only a handful of ABs in AAA and the Majors combined with limited playing time in AA.
Leaving him in AAA to be the full time catcher there and letting him destroy pitching in AAA would raise his value a whole lot more. You can even sell him at the deadline to some team needing a catcher for the playoffs and seeing the numbers he put up in OKC.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 11:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
damn the trade value
If the guy rakes, and I strongly suspect that he will, why do we have to trade him? If catchers have all this awesome trade value, a theory that I don’t necessarily buy into, then trade one of Salty or Teagarden for a starting pitcher.
"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM
by tricer on Dec 26, 2008 11:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because I highly doubt
Ramirez will hit well enough to make this team want to trade away Smoak or Davis. Davis is a better hitter than Ramiez while Smoak could be either as good of a hitter or better than Ramirez with some great defense at first to go along with it.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 27, 2008 12:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Davis is a better hitter than Ramiez…
What a crock of shit man…
A little more research with their minor league numbers and you’ll find that they’re quite similar production-wise.
The real difference between Davis and Ramirez is the parent club’s logjam at catcher and the non-existant logjam on the corner infield.
It's a crazy messed-up world... It's a doggy-dogg world...
by oc on Dec 27, 2008 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Shenanigans!!!
That’s the only way to describe what you just said. Ramirez has hit for significantly less power throughout his minor league career while showing significantly more patience. The biggest difference between the 2 is that they ended up with similar OPS totals in Bakersfield and Frisco, but Ramirez has been the older player at each spot. While Davis has forced his way onto the Major League team in just 2 years after being drafted, Ramirez took 6 years (though he was signed as a 17 year old I believe).
And oh yeah, the biggest difference between the 2. In the Majors, Davis destroyed the ball right away and continued doing so for the rest of the season. Ramirez simply did not. It isn’t easy for a prospect to prove himself to a team that he deserves to play everyday when they aren’t one of the elite prospects in baseball. The best thing they can do is force the Major League team’s hand in playing them. Ramirez simply did not do that. So while Davis was putting up an .880 OPS in the Majors, Ramirez was stuck in the minors.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 27, 2008 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What the hell are you babbling about?
…Ramirez has been the older player at each spot. While Davis has forced his way onto the Major League team in just 2 years after being drafted, Ramirez took 6 years (though he was signed as a 17 year old I believe).
I like the way you’ve dressed Ramirez up to be some type of senior citizen… Fact is he’s only Davis’ elder by a year and some change.
I don’t disagree that Davis got a horrid start in the big-leagues… but you just completely ignored what I just said…
The real difference between Davis and Ramirez is the parent club’s logjam at catcher and the non-existant logjam on the corner infield.
You had Saltalmacchia and Laird already playing ahead of him. Remove one of those guys from the equation and he might have gotten some more at-bats.
But, because Davis set the bar set the bar high, there’s suddenly no hope for Ramirez?….
It's a crazy messed-up world... It's a doggy-dogg world...
by oc on Dec 27, 2008 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Meanwhile, take a look at the gold mine Davis beat out for his big-league roster spot.
Broussard
Shelton
Blalock
Metcalf
Botts
Yeah.
It's a crazy messed-up world... It's a doggy-dogg world...
by oc on Dec 27, 2008 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot Ramirez
You know, the guy that came up before Davis and was tried out at the 1B spot.
Davis has been young for each level he’s played at. Ramirez on the other hand has not. Davis just turned 21 when he first played in high A. Ramirez was 22 going on 23. And the experience thing IMO is pretty important. While Ramirez has had the benefit of playing in the minors for a few years, Davis was crushing the ball right out of JuCo.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 27, 2008 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot Ramirez
You know, the guy that came up before Davis and was tried out at the 1B spot.
Hooooolyyy shit… a whole four games earlier… starting a position he had no business starting.
It's a crazy messed-up world... It's a doggy-dogg world...
by oc on Dec 27, 2008 4:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The point was
that the Rangers were willing to give Ramirez a chance to be the team’s 1B. While its a small sample size, both him and Davis were up with the Major League team getting time at 1B (Ramirez also at C) and Davis was the only one taking advantage of it.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 27, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Except Ramirez was merely a warm body until Laird got back.
It's a crazy messed-up world... It's a doggy-dogg world...
by oc on Dec 27, 2008 4:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
the team was trying him out at 1B in Frisco and the Majors because they wanted a placeholder for Laird.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 27, 2008 7:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No surprise the Rangers made this stupid decision in the middle of Hank Blalock's stint on the 60-day DL.
Not only do you neglect the fact that Laird was injured, but so was the “3B”
The Rangers had Chris Shelton’s wonderbat at first base and Gold Glover Ramon Vazquez at third.
Couple that with the decision to not play Saltalamacchia at first base anymore, and I’d say you have a organization that was just trying to feel it’s way through the blindness.
We can play this game all night.
It's a crazy messed-up world... It's a doggy-dogg world...
by oc on Dec 27, 2008 7:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Your post is compeltely
irrelevant to the whole Davis is much better than Ramirez with a bat
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 27, 2008 8:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is it?
Your argument seems to be predicated on playing time.
It's a crazy messed-up world... It's a doggy-dogg world...
by oc on Dec 27, 2008 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's quite simple, really
Hank = injured until late July
Laird = injured until late July
Bradley = DH
Davis plays 3rd, Hank plays 1st
UH-OH! WHERE IS MAX GOING TO PLAY?!
It's a crazy messed-up world... It's a doggy-dogg world...
by oc on Dec 27, 2008 8:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You must hate our pitching staff
to tell them that they get that CI and Young at shortstop. We’ll need 5 Hurley’s in the rotation because any groundball is guaranteed to become a hit.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 27, 2008 9:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How so?
Both Davis and Ramirez have been great in the minors. The difference is that Davis has done it a younger age and has done so at the higher levels when he was only a year removed from being drafted. On top of that, Davis took full advantage of getting a chance to start in the Majors and has forced the Rangers hand. Ramirez has not.
And its also funny how every single prospect ranking has considered Davis to be the far superior talent. Ramirez this year was 10th in BA’s list. Where do you think Davis ranks if he was still eligible?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 27, 2008 9:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably higher than Ramirez.
But I generally poop on prospect rankings. One bad season, injury, or organizational mismanagement is all it takes for prospects to lose their luster.
To summarize: Davis capitalized on his opportunity in the bigs, but was also the beneficiary of more playing time due to the gaping holes at third and first.
Ramirez, on the other hand, had his moments, but ultimately wasn’t going to get the same chance to put up the same numbers due to Laird and Blalock coming back.
So, the Rangers started him at first just so he could get some at-bats… Just look what that did for Saltalamacchia and his value… Wonders, right?
Keep rolling out there with Davis’ age and power if you’d like.
Ramirez is likely to turn some heads this year, I believe.
It's a crazy messed-up world... It's a doggy-dogg world...
by oc on Dec 27, 2008 9:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Keep believing
but even if Ramirez does great, Davis will still and always be better.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 27, 2008 9:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Davis looks like a Nazi.
It's a crazy messed-up world... It's a doggy-dogg world...
by oc on Dec 27, 2008 10:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and you're a douchebag
what does that have to do with anything though?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 27, 2008 10:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Everything.
It's a crazy messed-up world... It's a doggy-dogg world...
by oc on Dec 27, 2008 10:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
my post above was specifically agreeing with this:
Play the best players and if you don’t have a spot for a guy, send him down or trade him.
"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM
by tricer on Dec 26, 2008 10:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because Bowden sucks
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
You could certainly package him and send him off somewhere else.
The point is, if you think that Teagarden is, long-term, just a backup catcher, you don’t hold onto him. You move him now.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boston's Teagarden love
Adam, you don’t think it is because he is ML-ready?
I’m not saying Saltalamacchia isn’t, but I’m pretty sure Boston covets Teagarden more because his dominant skill is there NOW, while you’ll have to wait a bit for Saltalamacchia’s (though it should be superior, imo).
"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."
- The Huntressatron
by Chase Irwin on Dec 27, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
I think their preference for Teagarden is because they think he’s going to be the better catcher, long-term.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 27, 2008 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
Well that is certainly good ammo for your argument.
Theo’s preferences should not really be questioned.
"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."
- The Huntressatron
by Chase Irwin on Dec 27, 2008 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I'm assuming you meant we haven't made a trade
I’m not pidgionholing Tea into the backup role forever, don’t get me wrong. But I think finding out what Salty can do every day first is more important, considering Tea’s defensive skills make him the fallback option if Salty continues to dissapoint.
So I think (to start the year off anyway) you’d let Salty start the majority of the games, with Tea playing twice a week, maybe more. If Salty’s not getting it done, you just give Tea more playing time.
"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."
by lonestarJon on Dec 26, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
You said Teagarden seems like an ideal backup earlier in the thread.
If that’s the case, I don’t understand why you wouldn’t trade him now, to a team that values him as a starting catcher, rather than hold onto him as a backup.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, his defense makes him the fallback option
Should Salty somehow not make it as the starting catcher. So I think you hang onto him, make use of him as a superbackup (kinda like Cleveland with V-Mart/Shoppach).
"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."
by lonestarJon on Dec 26, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For the time being, anyway.
"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."
by lonestarJon on Dec 26, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
From reading between the lines . . .
I think the Rangers have decided that Teagarden is their catcher of the future. Now if his bat proves unworthy or Salty breaks out and forces their hand, than that situation could change.
by Randy Richardson on Dec 26, 2008 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
I think it could be equally likely though that the Rangers just view Teagarden as the “safest” choice, though maybe not the best overall talent, and that’s why they want to hang onto him so badly.
"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."
by lonestarJon on Dec 26, 2008 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well, yes
Teagarden is the “safe” choice. Worst case scenario, Teagarden: plus defender, average bat. Worst case scenario, Salty: defense isn’t good enough to catch, bat isn’t good enough for 1B.
by Randy Richardson on Dec 26, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Precisely.
Your post describes the Rangers’ decision-making perfectly, imo.
It’s not right or wrong, but it will be disagreed with either way.
"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."
- The Huntressatron
by Chase Irwin on Dec 27, 2008 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
If you can get Bowden/Bard, or Masterson/Bard, or Hughes or Kennedy, or some other good young pitcher or combo of pitchers, why wouldn’t you trade him instead of keeping him as a superbackup?
As Randy said, I think the Rangers view Teagarden as their catcher of the future, but if you see him as a future backup, I don’t understand why you wouldn’t take the best deal on the table for him this offseason and move on.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say I think of him as a backup-caliber catcher
Just that that’s what we should use him as for the time being. If Salty takes off, then I likely trade Tea at the deadline, but for now I’m assuming that the Rangers want Tea around because they veiw him as their safety net.
"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."
by lonestarJon on Dec 26, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
catching conundrum
Would you like a Posada type of catcher or Charles Johnson type? I thnk the Rangers favor Teagarden. But at what point does JD overplay his hand? Should JD just go ahead and choose one and move on?
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Dec 26, 2008 5:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather have Hank than Burrell at DH
…assuming he’s healthy. How ’bout Max at 3rd, his original position, Davis at 1st, salty behind the plate at 120-130 games, and platoon Blalock and Byrd at DH? Both Byrd and DH get traded at the deadline, and here we come 2010.
I roll like Pillsbury and make that dough, boy!
by egriffey on Dec 26, 2008 1:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
No
Max isn’t playing third base. He’s not a third baseman any more because he’s terrible at it. That’s not an option.
Why would you rather have Hank than Burrell at DH?
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
That makes little sense to me.
by brettgardner on Dec 26, 2008 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Max isn’t not such a great catcher either. And he’s running out of tomorrows for his big break through. He really didn’t get a chance to develop at 3rd. It looks like he’s being shoe-horned into a premium position he doesn’t have the skill set for. Why not put him on a corner in the winter league and give him a shot? If your choice is Metcalf’s anemic bat or Max’s questionable glove…well, I’d have to think that one through. But, the Rangers are not a competative team quite yeat. With Super-Smoak on the way, I would use this year to throw some things against the wall and see what sticks.
As far as Blalock goes, I would like to see him given a chance to return to health/form and get traded for something worth while at the deadline. I feel like the Rangers would be trading low on him right now.
I roll like Pillsbury and make that dough, boy!
by egriffey on Dec 26, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
That’s been the line of thinking for the last few years, hasn’t it? Somehow Blalock never raises his stock any.
by brettgardner on Dec 26, 2008 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Max doesn't have a questionable glove at 3B
If he did, he probably wouldn’t have been moved off of there. He’s worse than questionable defensively at 3B. And he’s not moving there.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
how about Chris Davis at 3B?
what do you think of his defense there?
by coolrangersfan on Dec 26, 2008 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Davis' defense there
is one that you could consider questionable and if your answer is Ramirez or Blalock at 1st, then you’ve got a CI that will kill your defense and a MI that isn’t going to do you many favors either.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So what is the long term plan with Ramirez?
He will be blocked when Smoak arrives in 2010, pushing Davis to DH. Ramirez is currently third on the depth chart for the catchers. Do you think JD will fleece the Marlins this winter? They seem to be the only team that are willing to use Ramirez as an everyday catcher.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 26, 2008 4:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Chris Davis will be traded. Max Ramirez is your DH of the future.
It's a crazy messed-up world... It's a doggy-dogg world...
by oc on Dec 27, 2008 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This.
I’ll be pissed, but Davis being a Boras client …
"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."
- The Huntressatron
by Chase Irwin on Dec 27, 2008 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Smell the asscheeks, Lone Star Ball.
Davis does not fit into this long-term picture.
It's a crazy messed-up world... It's a doggy-dogg world...
by oc on Dec 27, 2008 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess Borbon will have to go, as well
And it is a good thing we traded Boras client John Danks…
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 27, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You've made the point about payroll yourself.
"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."
- The Huntressatron
by Chase Irwin on Dec 27, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This isn't about Boras, knucklehead.
It’s about an all-lefty lineup.
It's a crazy messed-up world... It's a doggy-dogg world...
by oc on Dec 27, 2008 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hold up
Payroll doesn’t supercede the all-lefty thing?
Adam has proved that we’re pretty set with that $68M figure. Expandable or not.
"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."
- The Huntressatron
by Chase Irwin on Dec 27, 2008 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So Davis goes because he's a lefty...
…but would stay if he were a righty?
Who, other than Hamilton, are the other long-term lefties in the lineup?
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 27, 2008 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Come to think of it, this projected line-up for years to come is going to get extremely right-handed.
It's a crazy messed-up world... It's a doggy-dogg world...
by oc on Dec 27, 2008 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Salty DH
Salty would be a pretty weak option as DH against LHP.
by Randy Richardson on Dec 26, 2008 1:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's the one problem with this plan
With Salty’s track record against lefties, it doesn’t make any sense to DH him against them. We’d still need some kind of a RH bench bat that can hit lefties.
"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."
by lonestarJon on Dec 26, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really.
It’s true he hasn’t done very well in the Majors, but his minor league splits are remarkably consistent against righties and lefties. I doubt that he simply forgot how to hit lefties when he was promoted to the big leagues.
by Athos on Dec 26, 2008 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we're dealing with small sample sizes
in both minors and majors, but he hasn’t done much against LHP since Myrtle Beach in 2005.
by Randy Richardson on Dec 26, 2008 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
Great minds think alike, eh?
"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."
by lonestarJon on Dec 26, 2008 2:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He killed them in limited action at Oklahoma last season.
I just don’t think you can write him off at this point. And one good way to find out if he can hit them, especially in a non-contending season, is to throw him out there and see how he does on a regular basis. It certainly can’t hurt his development any.
by Athos on Dec 26, 2008 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
But I don’t think you should go making him your DH against them, either.
"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."
by lonestarJon on Dec 26, 2008 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would imagine that he'd catch some against them and DH some.
I don’t think it makes any difference where he’s playing when he gets the ABs, as long as he’s getting ABs.
by Athos on Dec 26, 2008 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree
It would be good for Salty. Competitively, for the team’s ’09 production, it would be a weak option.
by Randy Richardson on Dec 26, 2008 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you'll note though
Teagarden has been better against lefties the last two years in the minors. Yet another reason why playing Tea behind Salty for awhile could work very nicely.
"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."
by lonestarJon on Dec 26, 2008 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And for their careers, Tea has been better against both righties ...
and lefties. Which is another nice reason to have Salty playing the backup C role, especially since he can DH on days he isn’t catching.
by Athos on Dec 26, 2008 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
Looking at the splits year-by-year, the last time Salty was really good against lefties (outside of the whopping 13 ABs he had against them in OKC this year) was 2005. But he only OPS’d 738 and 755 against them in AA Mississipi in ’06 and ’07.
"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."
by lonestarJon on Dec 26, 2008 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rangers news
According to Tracy Ringolsby of the Rocky Mountain News:
The Yankees are looking to move two from a group of outfielders of Xavier Nady, Nick Swisher and Hideki Matsui. The Angels, Texas, Oakland and Atlanta are considered to have interest.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 26, 2008 3:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree
that career .308/.383./.470/.854 line against LHP makes him pretty enticing.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 26, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boggs can do that for cheaper
"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."
- The Huntressatron
by Chase Irwin on Dec 27, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
More of the same from a different source
Reports are all over the place about the Yankees being too stocked with corner outfielders. The four names that continue to surface are Xavier Nady, Hideki Matsui, Nick Swisher and Johnny Damon. Here’s a list of stories about potential trading partners:
Joel Sherman of the N.Y. Post thinks the Angels, Rays, Rangers and A’s could be possibilities, but he reminds us that there still are a number of similar-style hitters on the free agent market.
http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2008/12/3_up_happy_holi.html
by coolrangersfan on Dec 26, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Swisher
It would be ironic if Beane could sell high on Swisher and then reacquire him a year later for pennies on the dollar.
by Randy Richardson on Dec 26, 2008 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are the Rangers really in the market for COFer?
Seems like the Yankees bought high on both Swisher and Nady. I suppose if the Rangers did take one of those, I’d just as soon take Matsui since he only has one year on his contract and he seems to always perform at a decent level (minus freak injuries).
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Dec 26, 2008 3:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How did they buy high on Swisher?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Better than average seasons in 2006 and 2007
And then he goes into the pooper in 2008
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Dec 26, 2008 4:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The ChiSox bought high on him after 2007
Yanks bought low on him after 2008
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 26, 2008 4:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Like Adam said
The Yankees weren’t the ones that bought high on him. They traded for him after a terrible season when the White Sox sold him for pennies on the dollar.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 4:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Give me none of those
I’d rather have Ham-bone, Murphy, Cruz, and Byrd
I roll like Pillsbury and make that dough, boy!
by egriffey on Dec 26, 2008 3:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
w/ deathstar's Rangers
Salty is in Boston
Hank is gone
MaxRam is your everyday DH when he’s not catching as a back-up to Teagarden.
Bobby Jindal '12
by dstar442005 on Dec 26, 2008 5:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
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