Randy Johnson will NOT be a Ranger!
by The Ahmad on Dec 26, 2008 8:49 PM CST
81 comments
Good news for the Rangers in my opinion. The Big Unit will not be a Ranger and instead is going to the SF Giants. The Rangers need to stick to the youth movement and play and develop their young pitchers. Someone like Randy would have blocked one of our young pithcers we need to find out about. Now if we can only trade Millwood and Padilla and sign Sheets and insert another young arm to take Padilla's slot we would be in good shape for the future. Link below boys and gals...
from the mind of Ahmad
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what is scary
is that I agree with what you say. :o
Just a hunch, I expect Sheets to sign before Jan. 1. Hopefully with the Rangers. If JD is trying to move salary before signing Sheets then it won’t get done.
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Dec 26, 2008 9:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
oh please
can we not get a premature erection about the prospects in 2009. It’s only a throbbing hard on tease.
by thetudors on Dec 26, 2008 9:15 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
While I agree in theory with
what you say. Realism tends to take over.
I believe that the signing of RJ woulda been a good thing…this is why:
The average fan doesn’t give 2 shits about the development of our youngins. They want to see someone like RJ signed, it would improve some attendance numbers which would lead to more skrill to the bottom line. More skrill to the bottom line would HOPEFULLY lead to being able to sign Burrell (or someone similar) without having to trade someone to free up dough.
Now I agree with your philosophy The Ahmad. The average fan does not. They don’t get the “Plan” should there indeed be one.
I don’t want kids being blocked, but I wouldn’t mind signing RJ for the mere fact that our division is seeing the likes of the A’s being aggressive as we stand pat.
It’s a business. Whether we want to look at it that way or not is the question. The true fact is the RH and LH stallions on the farm could use another year of marination, the signing of RJ could let this happen. Don’t rush these kids. I don’t mind putting them in the bullpen at all…..but putting them in the starting 5 could result in 2 steps back.
.02
Freddie King rules faces.
by Ryin A on Dec 26, 2008 9:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
And understand
that I do know the health risks of RJ….I would have been on board had it been a friendly 1 year contract (unlikely indeed)…..I guess I buy into the hype that he woulda done some good within the clubhouse outside of teaching the kids how to yell into their gloves after strikeouts (god I hate that…)
Freddie King rules faces.
by Ryin A on Dec 26, 2008 9:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently it was a 1 year deal
hmmmmm
Freddie King rules faces.
by Ryin A on Dec 26, 2008 9:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Let me point out that I'm not the lead cheerleader
for the “Sign RJ” bandwagon….I can just see how it would/could make sense.
I get long winded, my point often lost.
Freddie King rules faces.
by Ryin A on Dec 26, 2008 10:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you know
you just pulled a sharky
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 10:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
oh shit
what does that mean…
Freddie King rules faces.
by Ryin A on Dec 26, 2008 10:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
replying to yourself
like 10 times in a row
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 10:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
society
doesn’t determine what’s right.
Bobby Jindal '12
by dstar442005 on Dec 26, 2008 9:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
care to expound?
Freddie King rules faces.
by Ryin A on Dec 26, 2008 9:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
fans
don’t determine what the team should do…
Bobby Jindal '12
by dstar442005 on Dec 26, 2008 10:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No
But you will find attendance will factor into more than a few decisions that a team will makes. See: Sosa, Sammy.
"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."
by lonestarJon on Dec 26, 2008 10:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
its a business, that was my point
do i AGREE? Neg.
Freddie King rules faces.
by Ryin A on Dec 26, 2008 10:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
a little low
Is $8M a liilt elow for Johnson?
MLB.com’s Chris Haft heard from a baseball source that the deal guarantees the Big Unit $8MM in 2009 and includes performance bonuses that could reach $2.5MM and award bonuses that could reach another $2.5MM. The AP agrees.
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Dec 26, 2008 9:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think that is beyond fair
when you include the incentives and take his health/age into question.
Freddie King rules faces.
by Ryin A on Dec 26, 2008 10:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not really
He could make around 10 million dollars which is what should be expected for a guy his age and is what he made last season.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 10:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How about looking at this from San Fran's point of view
Do they now make Sanchez available to try and win the NL West?
It has been known to be a weak division in the last few years.
Do they still need Blalock?
"Evolution happened, now get over it." Michael Shermer
by rodcarew on Dec 26, 2008 10:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wow!
I didn’t realize just how bad that Giants offense was in ’08. Blalock (12) would have been 3rd on their team in HRs behind only Molina (16) and Rowand (13). And they both played 80+ more games than Blalock. Needless to say, they could use his bat.
by Randy Richardson on Dec 26, 2008 10:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope so
What else could they want to make that deal work out because Sanchez is ready to have a huge breakout season.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 26, 2008 10:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
they might ask for a hitting prospect
someone like Mitch Moreland, although I’m not sure if the Rangers are willing to do that.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 26, 2008 11:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
good rotation
The Giants have a pretty good rotation with Johnson taking Correia’s spot. I am not sure what they would give up for Blalock and Moreland. How about someone like ???. I don’t know. Other than the top 4, they really don’t have too much.
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/12/24/701227/san-francisco-giants-top-2
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Dec 26, 2008 11:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
do you think Blalock and Moreland is enough to get Sanchez?
by coolrangersfan on Dec 27, 2008 12:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No.
Blalock is a FA after 2009. Moreland is not even a top 20 prospect for the Rangers. Maybe Blalock, Duran or Vallejo and an A ball pitcher like Kiker. Even then I don’t know. I am not too good at constructing deals like this.
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Dec 27, 2008 12:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would include Kiker
Blalock, Vallejo and Kiker for Sanchez? Why not?
Although, we do have Hicks’ edict with the 1st rd. P’s.
"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."
- The Huntressatron
by Chase Irwin on Dec 27, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You really think he's that good?
That’s not a package to shake your balls at. Could those pieces be used more efficiently?
I’m just not sure Sanchez is The Answer.
by brettgardner on Dec 27, 2008 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I think that would be too much to give up. I like Sanchez and all but not at that price. Although it would be funny if you had a guy in the first row behind the plate holding up a sign every time Sanchez pitched reading “Give em’ a dirty Sanchez”
Miami bound...
by boomer1 on Dec 27, 2008 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What other young pitcher
do you think could be had for a package like that?
Truthfully, I wasn’t even on the Sanchez bandwagon, but everybody seems to have that guy pinned.
"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."
- The Huntressatron
by Chase Irwin on Dec 27, 2008 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So you're just following the crowd?
It's a crazy messed-up world... It's a doggy-dogg world...
by oc on Dec 27, 2008 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."
- The Huntressatron
by Chase Irwin on Dec 27, 2008 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kiker?
people are undervaluing him so much it’s crazy.
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
by Longhorn on Dec 27, 2008 4:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Even if he doesn't pan out as a starter.
I think he can become a good setup man in the future. Maybe a closer? Who knows.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 27, 2008 4:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I include him
because I think Blalock is overvalued and because people underestimate what it takes to trade for a coveted young starter.
But yeah, I agree that Kiker is undervalued.
"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."
- The Huntressatron
by Chase Irwin on Dec 27, 2008 5:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Coveted by whom?
Sanchez is overrated by many here. The guy gives up a hit an inning and walks a batter every other inning. That’s not a good combination for our ballpark. We’ve got more than enough high level prospects that can give us that kind of production without wasting valuable trading chips to get it.
by Athos on Dec 28, 2008 2:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
x
http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/breakout-candidate-jonathan-sanchez
"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."
- The Huntressatron
by Chase Irwin on Dec 28, 2008 5:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So ...
the guy is prone to too many walks and has a bad habit of throwing meatballs when men are on base. That’s not exactly an endorsement for future success. It looks to me like he is popular because he strikes out so many batters. That’s a great quality to have, of course. But if you walk half as many as you strike out, and then have a track record for poor performance in high pressure situations (men on base or in scoring position), the strikeouts aren’t going to help much. We have plenty of cheap in-house options that can get the same result (or better) … they just won’t do it with as many strikeouts. I can live with that.
In addition, the guy has no stamina. He is apparently incapable of pitching 6 innings as a starter (including in the minors). Given that we fell apart at the end of last season because our bullpen was spent, we hardly need another guy in the rotation that will never give us 6 or 7 innings to lighten the load on the pen.
by Athos on Dec 28, 2008 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
x
a bad habit of throwing meatballs when men are on base.
That, for what it is worth, is something that one wouldn’t expect going forward…part of their point is that he’s not likely to continue to give up a disproportionate number of homers with runners on base, just like a hitter isn’t likely to continue to hit a disproportionate number of homers with runners on base.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 28, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd do that in a heartbeat
Moreland is nice and this system is slightly weak in hitting prospects, but a 22 year old with a great year in A ball but no especially good defensive skills (correct me if I’m wrong). To get a talent like Sanchez here, I’d give that up without thinking twice.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 27, 2008 12:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yet another free agent the A's missed out on
Nice. Now let’s see them overpay for Orlando Cabrera instead.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 26, 2008 11:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
What makes you think they'll sign Cabrera?
by LiamP on Dec 27, 2008 12:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They have some money to spend this offseason
after missing out on Furcal and Johnson. But you may be right, they might not go after Cabrera after all. I have read they are interested in bringing Giambi back.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 27, 2008 12:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cabrera is not at all their type of player.
If they acquire a SS, they’ll probably do it through a trade.
by LiamP on Dec 27, 2008 1:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True
he’s not the money ball type, I should had thought about that.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 27, 2008 1:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Would you trade Andrus for Cahill?
I know that’s not happening. Just asking.
by coolrangersfan on Dec 27, 2008 4:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."
- The Huntressatron
by Chase Irwin on Dec 27, 2008 5:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i dunno
with out depth at SP, and our need for a good SS, and TINSTAAP, i’ll keep Elvus and his upside.
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
by Longhorn on Dec 27, 2008 6:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The A's would never do it...
but you wouldn’t trade Andrus for Cahill?
That’s crazy imo.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Dec 27, 2008 6:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
stud pitching prospect over stud SS prospect? u’d take the pitcher over the everyday player?
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
by Longhorn on Dec 27, 2008 6:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If I'm the pitching starved Rangers I do...
Miami bound...
by boomer1 on Dec 27, 2008 7:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
a few years ago
let’s say the Rangers could have had either Kazmir or Hanley Ramirez, you would have wanted the Rangers to take Kazmir?
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
by Longhorn on Dec 27, 2008 7:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tell us what VORP says
Stats don’t lie.
"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."
- The Huntressatron
by Chase Irwin on Dec 27, 2008 7:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Elvus > Cahill
Hanley > Kaz
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
by Longhorn on Dec 27, 2008 7:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So you wouldn't want Kaz?
I would much rather have Kaz for a Zambrano type pitcher in that trade versus what Miami had to give up for Ramirez.
Miami bound...
by boomer1 on Dec 27, 2008 7:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
okay, u missed my point
let’s just make it more simple, who would you rather have Kaz or Hanley?
My point here is, you have 2 players, both similar quality prospects, why would you take the pitcher over the everyday player, especially one that plays a premium position like SS…
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
by Longhorn on Dec 27, 2008 7:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Look I get your point
If I didn’t have to sit in my seats every ballgame and watch a Rangers pitcher go out there and give up tons of runs and have to get the bullpen in the game by the 3rd or 4th inning I would agree with you. But this is the Rangers and with their current staff I would take Cahill over Andrus any day of the week right now.
Miami bound...
by boomer1 on Dec 27, 2008 7:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're talking about
the best SS in the game who, outside of Reyes, has no one even close to him vs. a great pitcher, but one with injury issues and still probably not top 10 in baseball. Andrus can be a great SS, but he won’t ever be as good as Hanley and will likely be top 5 at best. Cahill can be right there among the top pitchers in baseball.
So if you want a better comparison, would you trade Hanley for Lincecum, Hamels, or Lester?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 27, 2008 7:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cahill can be right there among the top pitchers in baseball.
i’m going to have to disagree here. but, that’s JMHO.
And to answer your question, No.
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
by Longhorn on Dec 27, 2008 7:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
At least back it up dude
Few people’s opinions carry that much weight here.
i’m going to have to disagree here. but, that’s JMHO.
"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."
- The Huntressatron
by Chase Irwin on Dec 27, 2008 7:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
scapular loading.
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
by Longhorn on Dec 27, 2008 8:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would absolutely love it
We’ve got Young, Duran, Vallejo, and Lemon for the SS position. I like Andrus, but he isn’t that hard to replace at least to some degree.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 27, 2008 7:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Duran and Lemon?
Neither of those guys are major league caliber defensive shortstops.
I mean, I know we’ve gotten used to poor defense there because of FOTF, but still…those two guys aren’t options at short at the major league level.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 27, 2008 7:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yah
And Vallejo at short is somewhat of an unknown too.
"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."
by lonestarJon on Dec 27, 2008 7:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They are options
If you’re talking about what could we do if we trade Andrus, there are other options available. I don’t think we would even move Young off shortstop if not for Andrus, but if the Rangers do decide to still move him, there are guys who could take over at least on a short term basis until the Rangers get a better long-term option.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 27, 2008 7:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They are options
If you’re talking about what could we do if we trade Andrus, there are other options available. I don’t think we would even move Young off shortstop if not for Andrus, but if the Rangers do decide to still move him, there are guys who could take over at least on a short term basis until the Rangers get a better long-term option.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 27, 2008 7:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You seem
Very wiling to live with poor defense.
by brettgardner on Dec 28, 2008 9:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
Lemon’s defense isn’t great, but won’t hurt the team much. Same with Duran. If Vallejo makes the switch to shortstop without any problems, he’s got the tools to be a great shortstop. And as I said, I would expect Young to stay at shortstop if Andrus wasn’t coming up and in which case, you are stuck with that defense.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 28, 2008 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
Lemon’s defense isn’t great, but won’t hurt the team much. Same with Duran.
On what basis do you say that either of those guys would be acceptable defensive shortstops at the major league level?
Are you saying that they wouldn’t be any worse than Michael Young? That they’d be better than Young? Just slightly worse than Young?
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 28, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think they'd be around the same level
Which is something this team can overcome. Plus they are younger so it isn’t impossible for them to improve at least somewhat while Young is what he is.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 28, 2008 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If either of them is equivalent to Young defensively...
…and hit like Young, then sure, they’d be fine major league shortstops.
However, I see no reason to believe that they will be that good. Particularly Duran, who has a total of 61 games at shortstop as a pro by my count, and who isn’t considered all that great a defensive second baseman. I’m not sure why you think that a guy who is considered average defensively at second base is going to be able to hold his own defensively at shortstop.
As for Lemon…we’ll see. But I haven’t seen any scouting reports that suggest he’s going to be able to stay at shortstop defensively at the majors. Not enough lateral quickness, not enough arm.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 28, 2008 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe on Duran
but I don’t think Lemon is that bad. I just don’t think he would be a SS that would be much worse than what we’ve had from Young.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 29, 2008 5:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure how you can say that.
Poor defense will hurt the team a lot, and that’s what Lemon will bring. Combine that with your disregard to Salty’s defense, and you’re looking a very terrible defensive team.
Just because Young sucks doesn’t mean it’s OK to replace him with another guy who sucks.
by brettgardner on Dec 28, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No
You’re looking at a team that has a great defensive OF, and a good right side of the IF. You are severely underestimating Salty’s defense if you think it will hurt the team from this point going forward. I can’t speak for the 3B defense because I don’t know who will be playing 3B for this team. You can take the slight hit at SS as long as you aren’t suffering throughout the rest of the IF.
And while Young certainly isn’t a GG, he isn’t as bad as some believe he is. PMR had him as slightly above average, UZR had him as a bit below average, and his plus/minus shows him to be a bit below average too. In other years, he’s been pretty terrible, but he has it in him to be at least decent.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 28, 2008 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yes
I do Andrus for Cahill.
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on Dec 28, 2008 5:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My question is
Why can’t Cahill just do Andrus himself?
(sorry, couldn’t resist…)
"I´d like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS."
by lonestarJon on Dec 28, 2008 5:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cahill>Andrus
Cahill is at least as good as Feliz, and Feliz>Andrus. Just ask BA. Here are the stats.
http://thebaseballcube.com/players/F/Neftali-Feliz.shtml
http://thebaseballcube.com/players/C/Trevor-Cahill.shtml
http://thebaseballcube.com/players/A/Elvis-Andrus.shtml
by coolrangersfan on Dec 28, 2008 2:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Cahill or Andersen for Andrus
I’d take either one. I’m not picky.
Simply because Andrus doesn’t have a high ceiling
like Hanley.
"Evolution happened, now get over it." Michael Shermer
by rodcarew on Dec 28, 2008 11:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
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