A weekend catcher poll
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 6, 2008 10:20 AM CST
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PrintWith the talk of what catchers we have now and who to trade and who is the best long term, I started thinking...
Which catcher is the best in 2009? Which catcher would help the team win the most games this coming year?
So I'm putting up a poll...and to clarify, I'm not interested in who you would start because you think they'll be the best in the long-term, or because you want to get them experience or whomever. I want to know which catcher you think would help the team win the most games in 2009 as the starter.
Cast your vote below...
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lol
First 4 votes, each got 1.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
Kevin Goldstein prefers Jarrod Saltalamacchia
From Jason Park’s BBTiA exclusive Goldstein Q&A:
Q: Kevin, what do you think of Taylor Teagarden’s offensive game? We already know about his impressive defensive reputation and he had quite a September showing in the majors this season, but I question whether he’ll be able to maintain similar success long-term because of his inconsistent numbers in the minors, along with the question of his durability. Do you think he’ll continue to hit well enough to justify starting him over the potential offensive stars Max Ramirez and Jarrod Saltalamacchia?
- Jon Page
Goldstein: It depends on what you want out of your catcher. I personally have a slight preference for Saltalamacchia. I think Teagarden is more the hitter we saw at AA and AAA, apposed to what we saw during his brief Major League stint, but that doesn’t mean he is an offensive nothing. He’s going to be the type of guy that hits .240, but makes up for it with secondary skills; he’s going to walk a lot and he’s going to hit some bombs.
Offensively, he could be a better version of Chris Snyder of the Diamondbacks, where there’s not a lot of batting average and lots of strikeouts; at the same time, he could hit 20 home runs and walk 80 times a year, and that’s going to make up for it, especially because of his defense. If you’re a team that is going to get your runs elsewhere (and most teams in Major League Baseball don’t depend on the catcher for runs), then Teagarden can be an awfully valuable piece. He’s still going to be able to contribute something offensively and play Gold Glove-caliber defense. I’m a huge Teagarden fan, but I still believe Saltalamacchia is a guy who can be a potential star.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
I may agree with Salty beyond 2009
but for 2009 I rolled with Teagarden.
Salty needs more time to develop behind the plate, while TT from UT looks like a 10 yr grizzled vet.
Freddie King rules faces.
I think
that you keep teagarden, salty and ramirez for 09. Trade Laird. Put Ramirez in OKC catching the likes of Holland and whoever else goes through there. This helps Ramirez develop defensively, gets him consistent ABs, and allows him to develop even more rapport with our young pitchers. Let Teagarden play the majority of the time behind the plate and do whatever it takes to make sure they each get 400-500 abs (mix of DH and C with possibly a handful of games for Salty at first) then see how Teagarden develops offensively and see how Salty develops defensively. Even though I am huge proponent of Teagarden I can admit it is easier for him to show his greatest asset as a catcher with inconsistent playing time than it is for Salty to show his offensive promise. 2009 is all about major league development for each of them. Can Teagarden be an adequate major league hitter? Can Salty show his good offensive skills consistently enough thus mitigating the fact that he is only a below avg (with no development) to avg (good development) defensive catcher? The good thing is that, by all accounts, both these guys work hard.
Lastly, everyone keeps talking about the defensive defencies of the Rangers well to be a good defensive team I believe you must be strong up the middle: catcher (teagarden), SS (Andrus, sorry MY), 2b (Kinsler, is he 07 or 08 when it comes to defense?), and Borbon.
by Michael Cave on Dec 6, 2008 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
I get the tools
Salty has. And I love the kid……I want him to break out.
It’s hard for a manager to put him behind the plate though, he is not as raw as Max, but he’s not much more ahead. To me, with this young staff, I want someone who knows what they’re doing back there. I know I can’t get in people’s heads, but it is fairly certain that a bunch of rookies would rather throw to someone as skilled as TT, rather than a lobster like Salty. Maybe Salty was hurt all year, but what I saw was someone with no footwork coming out of the shoot (and not a good enough arm to make up for it), someone who could not get down on anything in the dirt, and someone who stabs while receiving the pitch. Just watch Teagarden next. He does EVERYTHING a catcher is supposed to do. Kid can frame so well, I love watching him catch a game. And if he hits .240 20 hr while walking 80 times….that’s a no brainer, especially with the other mutants that hit in our order…
That’s just me though, and I know yall know most of it, so I was preachin’ to the choir a little bit.
Either way, it’s a pretty effn good situation to be in.
Freddie King rules faces.
Oh i totally agree with each of your comments
i was just making a statement on what I hope happens or at least how they handle it. You are right about Salty stabbing at the ball. I was a control pitcher in college and I hated it when a catcher would lose a strike for me on the corner. I dont think some realize how important receiving really is in college. I know you know because you caught. Ive been watching Teagarden since HS and he is absolutely the perfect catcher behind the plate. I mean have you seen his freaking accuracy on his throws? Im hoping for a 70/30 split. I think you let Salty catch a lot of pens with Millwood. Just get him around a vet that can teach him some catching skills.
I know you did,
didn’t mean to make it look as though I was singling ya out, my bad. I meant to start a new comment thread thingy. I remember that first CS Teagarden had, it reminded me of Pudge’s first one (aganst the Sox, Raines??)….ball right on the right corner of the bag and about a foot off the ground….sweet!
Pudge threw out 48% of runners from 91-2006…..that is ridiculous.
And I’m not comparing TT to Pudge, just that moment.
Freddie King rules faces.
Yeah i know the exact
throw you are talking about. Tea threw the ball right at the bag. Kinsler caught it just as the runner was sliding into his glove. I think that Tea would help the pitchers so much behind the plate. And you are soooo right, great problem to have…
Salty's gonna bust out next year.
I hope it’s for our team.
This is an exciting time in my life.
The LSB CPP's are in full bloom.
by inactive lsb user on Dec 6, 2008 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah
At the end of the season, I was pretty confident that TT would be the best bet to keep around for the long-term. Now, I am not so sure. Salty supporters kept talking about how young he is. Should he have a breakout year, his age could mean an even higher ceiling.
by Excel Hearts Choi on Dec 6, 2008 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
Adam
May I ask your answer? Since I see you have not voted.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
So all those votes for Laird
Must be HH’s 6 different usernames.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
So Teagarden?
Do you like him long term as well?
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
tough call
because they each have pluses but i went with salts.
teagarden is the better defensive catcher and i think ramierez is clearly the better offensive player but salty at the moment is somewhere in between which i think would help the team win more in 09
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
taylor teagarden?
is that really justifiable?
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
- Laird isn’t the answer
- When Ramirez catches, the team gives up 10 runs
- Salty likes to fondle the pitchers when he goes to the mound
So, yes, Teagarden.
meet me at the mawwl... it's goin dowwn...
by oc on Dec 6, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
voted for Laird
Based solely on 2009 alone. However I think if the poll was restated as, “The Rangers would win the most games in 2010 and beyond with _______________ as their starting catcher for 2009.”
Then I would vote Teagarden.
I voted for Laird too
Laird behind the plate he’s the best and the most experienced with the pitchers.
I think we would win the most games in 2009 with Laird catching
Total toss up
to me. I voted Salty because I think he’s going to start being more consistent at the plate — and he was nearly as good as Laird already in 2008 with a solid walk rate. But, really I think the differences aren’t that large.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Same logic I followed
Although I prefer Teagarden long term.
I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.
OT: Furcal turns down A's
Sorry if the link doest work
Huh
Gee, uhh… too bad for the A’s.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
I went with Teagarden.
Trading Gerald Laird = addition by subtraction.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Tea vs Salt in 09
Teagarden preformed out of his mind at the end of the year and now Salt is going crazy in the winter leagues. I’d go with Salt. He’s a safer pick with the bat and once he gets a full time catching gig, I don’t think he’ll be a big butcher at the backstop.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. 45 given up in the 1st quarter. Wow. But still we're better than Washington! Oh and, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-10 baby!
With Salty hitting like this
why the bleep do we feel so compelled to deal him?!?!
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
I think
he it talking about in the Dominican. There is no doubt his hitting is impressive there but it would be nice for him to show that in the regular season.
I don't see why...
…his performance in 38 winter ball ABs would make someone proclaim that he shouldn’t be dealt.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 6, 2008 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
Hey, Adam
nice to hear from you as well.
More or less, that Salty has no proven that he’s healthy and over his injury.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
No matter how he's hitting
or any of them you deal for the best return.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Teagarden
I went with Teagarden, with Laird a close second. I don’t believe Salty could effectively play catcher full-time in the majors yet.
by Randy Richardson on Dec 6, 2008 12:25 PM CST reply actions
Laird and Teagarden
should be keepers. However, it seems that Laird might be gone very soon. I think getting rid of Laird might come down to a knee-jerk reaction by JD. I think it’s a really bad idea to get rid of Laird.
Are you saying that they should hold onto Laird?
I’m confused.
This is an exciting time in my life.
The LSB CPP's are in full bloom.
by inactive lsb user on Dec 7, 2008 12:24 AM CST up reply actions
It's a tough call for me between TT and OMFT.
I went with Laird just because he’s actually had a Major League career.
Salty hands down
He was as good as Laird was last year so there is no reason to think he’ll be worse this season . He has the most ML experience of the 3 young catchers. Teagarden last year was nice in his small sample size, but that’s all that that was. And Ramirez could just use some more playing time in the upper minors.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Defense is all that mattered to me when voting in this poll
With all of the offense at other positions (Kinsler, Hamilton, Davis, Cruz, whoever is DHing) I don’t think the catcher’s offensive output will matter as much as his defense. I went with Teagarden because he should be able to help all of the pitcher’s through his game management and be able to control baserunners.
Went with TT...
I like Salty’s bat a lot, but there were times last year where he just looked like he wasn’t ready to be a catcher in the bigs defensively. His bat would be nice, but he needs a lot of work behind the plate.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
To take this thread in a slightly different direction...
Which catcher (Tea, Salty, or Ramirez) do you think is most likely to reach their ceiling?
I’m picking Salty. His bat was decent last year and his defense is a project but will end up being ok. His solid walk rates are nice, and he’ll have a bit of pop for a catcher.
Teagarden has too many health and bat questions for me to think he’s the best bet to reach his potential. Ramirez may end up with the best bat, but it’s not a slam dunk, and his defense will always leave you questioning whether or not he should be catching. If he does become a full time catcher, it won’t be for too many years, he’ll be DHing much of his career.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
A starting catching
hitting about .850 OPS, 15-20 HR guy, with average defense.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
That would make him
one of the best catchers in the league if he’s able to put up around an .850-.875 OPS.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
For a catcher?
Really? That’s pretty damn good. 29 catchers had more than 300 PAs last season, and 6 beat that OPS mark. In 2007 only 2 managed it. I think both Salty and Ramirez could do that, but Ramirez would be a liability defensively.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Sorry
I’m not a statistics guru and after realizing that the list of major leaguers who have had a career slugging percentage of .500 is quite small, I retract my statement. A .400 OBP plus a .450 Slugging Percentage would be nice. I would just expect the HR totals to be a bit higher than that.
difference in Salty and Max defense
I didn’t notice much difference. Although he is a couple years older, I think Max is actually newer to catching than Salty. I think either or both of them could develop into league average defense. If either had a real advantage, I’d think it might be Max because of his frame.
Don't believe the hype about sloppy seconds. They ain't bad.
Teagarden
Just seemed as though at the end of the year the pitchers really responded to his in-game calling.
Honestly, I’m not looking for a catcher that is going to hit .300 with more than 20 HRs and 70 RBIs. I’m looking at the catcher that can call a game. Teagarden is known to do that. And to do it with a lot of the young pitchers that are probably going to pitch for us this year, I seem like hes going to be the best fit
In Smoak We Trust
voted Max
but only because to really answer the poll question in a way that isn’t almost totally arbitrary I have to assume Max will either play catcher or very sparingly. Obviously, the real life decision won’t be that easy; the catcher spot will greatly effect how the other starting positions play out.
Personally, I’d like to see either Tea or Salty start at catcher, with the odd man out starting as OKC’s catcher to build their trade value, then have Max and Chris Davis share the bulk of 1b/dh at bats(unless, miraculously, in spring training we find out one of those two can play third), and Hank, bless him, be traded for the best offer he can fetch, along with Laird.
I’d be very curious to see the results of a follow-up poll for third base.
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