Monday a.m. things
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 8, 2008 9:14 AM CST
96 comments
Ah, finally some news...even if it is news that makes me a little sad...
Gerald Laird has been traded to the Tigers. Not unexpected, but still...
He'll go there and take over as the everyday catcher.
The return for the Rangers is, I think, a little underwhelming. Guillermo Moscoso and Carlos Melo, both pitchers, Moscoso being 25 and close to major league ready, Melo being 17 and not yet having pitched in the States.
Melo has an intriguing profile, and signed for $165,000 in 2007 (which, if I'm not mistaken, is a not insubstantial amount for a Latin America signee). Moscoso has a nice fastball and seems to profile as a nice reliever, although his poor performance in winter ball has been blamed on pitching out fo the pen (which he supposedly doesn't like).
Okay return, I guess. Moscoso will probably be in the mix for a job on the major leauge staff in 2009, either in the pen or in the rotation, and Melo is a lottery ticket.
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Giveaway time
The retail stores are doing it, why not the Rangers? Afterall, it’s been about a year since we’ve done something nice for the Tigers. Merry Christmas, Detroit.
by doolindalton on Dec 8, 2008 9:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Considering the current market
for catchers, and the Ranger’s need to clear playing time for the younger backstops, I would not characterize this as a giveaway by any means.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 8, 2008 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
single tear
stay hard gerald . . . stay hard
by 1man5tools on Dec 8, 2008 9:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
new screename coming?
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 8, 2008 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no
I always saw him as a character, not really the huge fan my screen name implies. I just though he was funny with all of his bravado etc.
by 1man5tools on Dec 8, 2008 10:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the real question is
do the tigers have a “15” on their mlb team?
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Dec 8, 2008 9:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Brandon Inge
Obama thinks he is a good talker, but he is often undisciplined when he speaks. He needs to understand that as President, his words will be scrutinized and will have impact whether he intends it or not. In this regard, President Bush is an excellent model; Obama should take a lesson from his example. -- John Hinderacker
by Lucas on Dec 8, 2008 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh boy
that could get interesting. Gritty vs Lumpy — It’s on!
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 8, 2008 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe "10" is open.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Dec 8, 2008 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
WIN!
I laughed.
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
by ghtd36 on Dec 8, 2008 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Either that or 11
Ha!
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Dec 8, 2008 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
His nunmber needs to be 12
One man, Two scoops
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 8, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wow
that was great
In reference to how good the Steelers have been in their history: "No one is even close to them."- Steal Home
by hinduplaya on Dec 8, 2008 5:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
will miss his energy, and arm,
won’t miss the ‘stabbing’ framing of pitches that cost us strikes.
"Never go with a hippie to a second location."
by jcAustin on Dec 8, 2008 9:28 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I love this return.
A risky high-ceiling minor league arm plus a lottery ticket?
Sign me up.
I’m happy today.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 8, 2008 9:28 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
+1
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Dec 8, 2008 9:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Plus, we had to trade a catcher and Laird had the least value. Given the catching market this offseason, I don’t see how we could have honestly expected a bigger return. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that JD dealt Laird as soon as a market for Laird briefly emerged. Besides, I’d rather be underwhelmed in a Laird trade than a Salty or Teagarden trade.
Also, I’m guessing that the Rangers’ LA people had previously scouted Melo and picked him for a reason…
by cstorm15 on Dec 8, 2008 9:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Me three
I like lottery ticket arms, and Moscoso could be a late inning guy if he doesn’t pan out as a starter.
Does Moscoso go to Frisco to start the season? I really don’t see him in Arlington until at least summer.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 8, 2008 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m already thinking of Moscoso as a bullpen pitcher. Might be hasty but he’d be a ways down on the starter depth chart.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Dec 8, 2008 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think odds have to be in favor of Frisco
There doesn’t look to be a gaping hole in the Oklahoma roto, and while he pitched well in AA last year, I would suspect that they would like for him to get a little more time there.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 8, 2008 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think they were ever getting more than this
Laird simply wasn’t all that valuable. Any rational look at the Rangers sees him as the #4 catcher on the long term depth chart. He has little long-term utility to a developing team (he’ll be a FA in a couple of years). Given the weird “we need to cut salary talk,” it was very obvious the rangers would have traded Laird for anything.
2 pitchers, both with high ceilings, is a good return in those circumstances. This team has so many young pitchers it makes sense to go for teams risky guys like this. Every young, risky player acquired increases the odds that at least one will become something good in the majors.
Good trade (again) for JD.
by JBImaknee on Dec 8, 2008 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
this trade reminds me of a marlins trade
in both good ways (shrewdly bringing in high upside arms) and bad (the need to cut money from the payroll).
by clark on Dec 8, 2008 9:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well
its bad when you’re dumping miggy cabrera, gary sheffield, or some other great player to save money.
Its not that bad when you’re dumping a guy who you have 3 guys ready to replace him tomorrow.
I think if there was zero trade value for Laird out there we may have seen him non-tendered.
by JBImaknee on Dec 8, 2008 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Moscoso
Does he complicate things? If we keep acquiring pitchers, we won’t have any rotation spots for them. Aren’t we pretty maxed out as it is?
by Coolbean04 on Dec 8, 2008 9:33 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
As the saying goes...
You can never have enough pitching.
Ever.
"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.
by OCD SS on Dec 8, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The only way he complicates things
is that you have a finite number of roster spots from AA-MLB and on the 40. The Galarraga move was unnecessary, but as this depth ages (and is possibly even further supplemented) there will be a pretty big crunch. Moscoso should sort himself out by then, though.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 8, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
catcher trade value
apparently it’s not what some had lead us to believe.
Don't believe the hype about sloppy seconds. They ain't bad.
by tricer on Dec 8, 2008 9:39 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'd argue...
…that trade value for average catchers is not what some had led us to believe.
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
by ghtd36 on Dec 8, 2008 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I should clarify.
If the Rangers wanted to trade Saltalamacchia, Teagarden or Ramirez, they’d get a boatload more.
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
by ghtd36 on Dec 8, 2008 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Trade value
is not a constant, and Laird is hardly Johnny Bench.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 8, 2008 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They're the ones who forgot Laird's 2007 season.
The entire season.
Folks, the player didn’t have that much value.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Dec 8, 2008 9:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you expect
a Einar for Hafner or Peirzynski for Nathan/Liriano style deal?
The problem with that logic (that a certain local minor league guru has been known to hype), is that baseball has memory. Those deals were lopsided failures, and every time a lopsided deal takes place, GMs around the league discount the value of the overvalued player. Its like any arbitrage opportunity in the stock market – once people realize what is going on, it stops being an opportunity.
The key (which was the point of Moneyball) is to recognize and get ahead of these opportunities before they happen. I think the Rangers came late to the “get a few catchers and trade them for future all-stars” game. Maybe they can be ahead of the curve next time.
by JBImaknee on Dec 8, 2008 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, I didn't expect that at all
but from reading a couple of the more prominent Ranger bloggers, I got the sense that both of them really thought JD was brilliant for stockpiling catchers because they always garner trade interest. Not to put words in either of those guys mouths, but from reading months worth of comments from them, that is the feeling that I got. I never shared that feeling.
Don't believe the hype about sloppy seconds. They ain't bad.
by tricer on Dec 8, 2008 9:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well
i still have a feeling this team is more than a little willing to trade another catcher for pitching this offseason. I think a team like Boston would still have very legitimate interest in Saltalamacchia, as nothing has changed on that front.
by clark on Dec 8, 2008 9:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
after this trade you take no less
Than Buchholz for Salty
Wait 'til the year after next
by NothinG on Dec 8, 2008 10:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i would still take
bowden and bard. this trade did not change that.
by clark on Dec 8, 2008 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if Varitek signs elsewhere
that’s when you tighten your grip on Theo’s short hairs.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Dec 8, 2008 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Shut the fuck up with Buchholz already.
meet me at the mawwl... it's goin dowwn...
by oc on Dec 8, 2008 9:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with...
…doing a blog like this is that you end up writing a ton of stuff. I’m sure I’ve written a variety of things that contradict each other, and I know I’ve written stuff that, in looking back, I was way off base and wish I could take back.
Thus, while someone might be able to dig up something to the contrary, I don’t recall ever saying that Daniels was brilliant for stockpiling catchers. That said, they do generally garner trade interest…the fact that Laird brought back a couple of decent pitching prospects, given his up and down career path, age, and arbitration status, is proof of that.
I have noted that the Rangers have made a point to gather catchers, and I do think it is a position that is somewhat unique because it is hard to paper over a hole there, and teams oftentimes will prioritize getting a player for that particular position and overpay. You can move a shortstop to second base or third base to cover a hole there, you can stick a COF at 1B, but if you don’t have a catcher, you’ve got to go get one…you can’t just shuffle people around.
That being said, I also think the “Daniels is collecting catchers” thing is a bit overblown. Teagarden was drafted while Hart was still here. Laird was acquired by Fuson. Salty was the lead trade chip the Braves had to offer in the Teixeira deal, and I don’t really believe the Rangers necessarily targeted him in particular in that deal because he was a catcher. Ditto Max Ramirez.
The thing that makes it hard with catchers, though, is that if they can’t stick behind the plate, there really isn’t much you can do with them, unless their bat will play at 1B or DH. You have flexibility with a SS prospect…if their glove is weak, they can move to 2B or 3B or the outfield. That versatility enhances their value. Catchers, though, either catch or go find something else to do.
In any case, I don’t know that you can reasonably point to this return and say, see, catchers don’t really have much trade value, and we should have just released Laird last year or whatever.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 8, 2008 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Nicely put
I don’t understand why anyone would complain about this trade from either a return standpoint or a payroll cutting standpoint. It’s nice that Laird being gone saves the team $3 million but I have a hard time believing they traded him for that reason. He’s the guy you are most willing to give up in any case, and the return is (as Dave Pinto put it) nice for basically an extra player.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 8, 2008 11:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The SBNation Rec'd post symbol always reminds me of the rotten symbol on rottentomatoes.
by MeanMr.Mustard on Dec 8, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Metacritic >>> Rotten Tomatoes.
Which site do you prefer?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 8, 2008 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I look at
Metacritic for album reviews, but I prefer Rotten Tomatoes for movies. I’m not a big fan of the numbering system (nor am I one of the green splat thing vs. tomato), and I like the segregation of “regular guy” reviewers and “top critics”. Metacritic has a much better format overall, but I like getting more than Ebert, Newsweek, et al. opinions.
by brettgardner on Dec 8, 2008 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree the numbering system ain't perfect, but I think it beats the living jizz out of RT's pass/fail scoring system.
Too many times I’ll see a movie get a “Fresh” when the review is basically saying something like “Well, it didn’t suck and I pretty much didn’t fall asleep once”.
However, you make a good point with the more regular guys argument, as well as the segregation of different types of reviewers.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 8, 2008 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, stockpiling catchers doesn’t mean that every one of them will be extremely valuable. It means that you’ll be able to fill an important position and that you have an always tradeable commodity. Laird isn’t particularly good, yet he returned two pitchers that you may not think much of but I am certain that Detroit was not crazy about trading.
Also, “stockpiling” kind of reduces the strategy. I think that catcher is just one of a few positions that Daniels will always be open to adding in a deal.
And fwiw, what is Billy Beane going to do with all his 2B? Is it going to proe to be unwise if he fills his position with a nice player (after having a hole there for a while) and possibly trades one or two for interesting pitching prospects?
by Brett Perryman on Dec 8, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Laird and Byrd
We read about interest from Cincinnati on both Laird and an outfielder.
I wonder if dealing those two, a la last year’s Schneider/Church deal, would have pried a Bailey-led package away.
Apart from that Moscoso is an arm that’ll be useful – I mean, the shoe fits. It’s not impressive so there’s some disappointment, but Z’s diary is a great read on the player.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Dec 8, 2008 9:43 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
If it would had
I’m glad we dodged that bullet.
by Mike E on Dec 8, 2008 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take it
Moscoso sounds intriguing. The info Z posted in his diary really got my interest. And lottery tickets are nice when they’re a throw in.
I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.
by TheBZA on Dec 8, 2008 9:47 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
i am not sure
i like the lottery ticket analogy. this is a 17 year old kid who can already throw in the low 90’s and who has at least a feel for secondary stuff. obviously a lot has to go right for him to become a viable big league prospect, but to call him a lottery ticket would insinuate that every kid in the DSL is equal, but from the sound of it this kid, who garnered a very nice signing bonus, is a special arm.
by clark on Dec 8, 2008 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You should read the Goldstein interview.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Dec 8, 2008 10:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i did
like i said, i can’t argue with the attrition facts. but not every lottery ticket is created equal.
by clark on Dec 8, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's why
They’re called lottery tickets. Most of the time, you don’t win.
I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.
by TheBZA on Dec 8, 2008 10:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course not.
You’re reading way too much into the whole lottery ticket analogy.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 8, 2008 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so
where does Moscoso start the season ?
by 1man5tools on Dec 8, 2008 9:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
AA i would assume
he has only spent part of last year in AA
Wait 'til the year after next
by NothinG on Dec 8, 2008 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think this was a pretty fair trade, myself
Gerald is Gerald. For a catcher whose overall career has been average at best, I think this is a pretty decent return (although I admit my initial reaction wasn’t quite as enthusiastic – until I read Zywica’s post, that is. Moscoso sounds like one of those good stuff/yet slightly tarnished guys that makes great depth in the minors and could be really valuable if he hits (and still useful in the bullpen if he doesn’t).
by JimBonnick84 on Dec 8, 2008 9:56 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Where would Moscoso fall in Community Projections
Top 25? Top 20?
I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.
by TheBZA on Dec 8, 2008 10:00 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Possible Poll Question
Will the Laird trade be the biggest move of the offseason?
Sadly, it’s a real possibility…
by cstorm15 on Dec 8, 2008 10:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Apart from signing a few filler pieces
you are probably right. Sad
I'd love for part of the "new look" to be a return to the red uniforms of the 1990s. - Ian Kinsler
by ortonius on Dec 8, 2008 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No.
The winter meetings are underway and gut-level I don’t think JD wants this starting rotation again.
One way or another he’s going to churn the starting pitching.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Dec 8, 2008 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess
we can assume the RSox would not take him off our hands. This amounts to having very little trade value. Got to be an ego killer for Laird.
by JTodd on Dec 8, 2008 10:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Laird is happy
He has the starting catching job all to himself. He’s been fighting for playing time for years.
by cstorm15 on Dec 8, 2008 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
From the man himself:
“I’m excited,” Laird said. “I get to play every day. Nothing against the Rangers, I love every one of them. I love all those players, I came up with a lot of them. But now I get a change of scenery and do my thing. Play every day.”
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Dec 8, 2008 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing wrong with that
Good for Laird. I’m glad he gets to play everyday.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Dec 8, 2008 11:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rangers wanted Bailey for Laird
Says TR.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Dec 8, 2008 10:47 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well it confirms they really are after bailey at least
and weve still got some catchers.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Dec 8, 2008 10:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but none I'd want to deal for Bailey alone though
If we do wind up dealing Salty or Max for Homer I’d hope we get something else enticing as well.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on Dec 8, 2008 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good going Pee Wee!
I’m going to have me a banana split in memoriam.
Best of luck superstar!
"The Gerald Laird trade is a GREAT SUCCESS! Who'd we get for him again?"
Tom Hicks
by LAMuscleFag on Dec 8, 2008 11:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Trade update
So we now traded Mike Venafro and Carlos Pena for Shane Spencer, Vincente Padilla, John Hart, Mario Ramos, Guillermo Moscoso and Carlos Melo
by chase1971 on Dec 8, 2008 12:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
that's a good thing?
pena for padilla? seems like people could view that either way
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Dec 8, 2008 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That trade could be great!!!
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 8, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget the A's half of that deal
They used Pena to acquire (along with Bonderman) Ted Lilly and a minor leaguer, who begat another minor leaguer, who begat Jack Hannahan, who probably had negative value playing 3b for them last year.
What a debacle of a deal that was. And to think I once thought it was going to transform the Rangers organization. You have to think though that the Rangers “won” that deal based on the fact Laird was a pretty good player for us for a while.
by JBImaknee on Dec 8, 2008 5:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also funny...
that the two best players out of that deal (Pena and Ludwick) would both considered busts to all of a sudden become offensive studs years later out of nowhere.
by chase1971 on Dec 8, 2008 6:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Laird on Laird:
http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/12/gerald-laird-qa.html
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Dec 8, 2008 1:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Mazz
http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/massarotti/2008/12/objectives_for_sox_are_clear.html
2. Find a catcher
By now, you know that Jason Varitek rejected salary arbitration, though he still can negotiate with (and return to) the Red Sox. While that decision was taking place, the Detroit Tigers reportedly have executed a trade with the Texas Rangers for catcher Gerald Laird, which obviously affects the trade market as Texas was the obvious trade partner for any team seeking to acquire a catcher.
At the start of this season, the Rangers had four catchers on their 40-man roster: Laird, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Taylor Teagarden, and Max Ramirez. An executive from one National League team suggested the Rangers would be willing to move two of those catchers, assuming Ramirez was one of them. So the Red Sox still could have the chance to make a deal with the Rangers despite the Laird trade.
Last week, general manager Theo Epstein said the trade market for catching was better than many believed. We’ll see. The Sox believe they have a catching prospect in the lower minors in Luis Exposito, but that could be nothing but posturing in hopes of keeping down the price. Regardless, the Sox need to sign Varitek (unless someone else gives him three years) and trade for a young catcher who can serve as his apprentice.
Later on he talks about acquiring an OF who can play some CF. Obviously, nobody comes to mind.
I hope JD hooks this up.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Dec 8, 2008 1:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, have fun with Exposito Theo.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 8, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't stop.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2008/12/las-vegas—one.html
LAS VEGAS — One team that is expected to engage the Angels in trade talks this week is the Boston Red Sox, who are looking for a potential replacement for veteran catcher Jason Varitek (a free agent who declined arbitration) and are in interested in both of the Angels’ young catchers, Mike Napoli and Jeff Mathis.
The Red Sox have a surplus of relievers, but the chances for any deal hinge on what catcher the Red Sox want most and who they are willing to give up.
…
Most scouts believe Napoli has more trade value, but for the Angels to deal him, they would probably need Boston to return right-hander Justin Masterson, who is sort of to the Red Sox what Ervin Santana was to the Angels in 2005, an outstanding young pitcher who can start or be a shutdown late-inning reliever, as he was in the postseason for Boston in 2008.
The Angels could also ask for young right-hander Clay Buchholz, who threw a no-hitter in 2007 but bounced between triple-A and the big leagues during an erratic 2008.
The Red Sox would prefer to trade right-hander Manny Delcarmen, whose 94-mph sinking fastballs can be nasty at times but who hasn’t shown the consistency to warrant a starting catcher in return.
What’s folks’ opinions of Napoli? The numbers are sexual; a SOSH poster noted his inconsistency. I’m thinking the price point’s around Tea/Salt, in which case I’d prefer our guys.
I’ve set a pillow down on the floor in the event of spontaneous praying that Tek signs elsewhere. That would be a glorious development.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Dec 8, 2008 3:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I would think that
he’s more valuable than our guys, unfortunately. He’s like Iannetta and Salty in that he’s not defensive dynamo but is passable, and like Iannetta and unlike Salty, he’s already hitting big time in the majors (though in split duty, where Laird, for instance, thrived), with a career .248 .362 .493 line and a huge 2008.
Andfor what it’s worth, this is precisely what I was talking about as far as their being more options for Boston than were being suggested. Mathis for Delcarmen? LAA would be all over that (though Boston hopefully wouldn’t). Mathis, btw, is a career .195 .272 .326 hitter in about 500 ABs.
I have a really bad feeling that LAA will so one or two really big things this winter.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 8, 2008 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh.
I would think that he’s more valuable than our guys, unfortunately.
I love you, Z.
It would really burn my ass if the Angels end up getting Buch for a catcher.
by Athos on Dec 8, 2008 4:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Humor over my glum valuing of our players aside, you would think that Saltalamacchia is more valuable than Napoli? I guess that’s possible, it’s just hard to get around the knowledge that you know Napoli can hit.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 8, 2008 6:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what?
Napoli is a platoon catcher coming off a year that is outside his career norms. Salty is viewed, at least by most, as a potential star.
and mathis’ value is probably Laird like. there is no reason it would be any higher.
by clark on Dec 8, 2008 6:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying Mathis' value is high
But forget this year, look at Napoli’s career norms. How much better of an on base or slugging are you expecting out of Salty on a year in year out basis?
by Brett Perryman on Dec 8, 2008 7:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a platoon catcher because
his manager is Mike Scioscia and he thinks that 500 OPS players can be good players, not because he has really bad splits against lefties or righties or something.
I’m not that resolute about it, but I’d be curious what some informed independent opinions are. And we’re talking about a trade partner who is exclusively interested in a catcher, so you have to factor that in with Salty.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 8, 2008 7:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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