BA Rangers top 10 is up
by Brett Perryman
on Dec 8, 2008 10:15 AM CST
197 comments
What we saw over the weekend was correct.
| 1. | Neftali Feliz, rhp |
| 2. | Derek Holland, lhp |
| 3. | Justin Smoak, 1b |
| 4. | Elvis Andrus, ss |
| 5. | Martin Perez, lhp |
| 6. | Taylor Teagarden, c |
| 7. | Engel Beltre, of |
| 8. | Michael Main, rhp |
| 9. | Julio Borbon, of |
| 10. | Max Ramirez, c/1b |
s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s
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Seems about right
Beltre maybe a little too high imo
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on
Dec 8, 2008 10:25 AM CST
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Teagarden is the one too high
Beltre is just risky. Like Kevin Goldstein said in the Q&A over on BBTiA, Beltre has a ton of potential, but could also be a high flameout risk.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on
Dec 8, 2008 10:26 AM CST
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Yeah a great defensive catcher...
with power is little potential…who would want that?
by slimshadty12 on
Dec 8, 2008 1:25 PM CST
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in a box isolated yes, with TT's injury history?
in all fairness to BA he dropped 2 spots,
PS: Hurley went to ineligible? or did he plummet? he was #3 last season and is nowhere to be seen.
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on
Dec 8, 2008 2:38 PM CST
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With Moscoso
being #10 in the Tiger organization, where do you think he falls into the Ranger org?
Heeeeyyyy poor! Heeeeyyyy poor! Hey poor, you don't have to be poor anymore!
by Escher on
Dec 8, 2008 10:25 AM CST
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15-20
IMO should be about 1-2 spots ahead of Diamond.
by Michael Cave on
Dec 8, 2008 10:32 AM CST
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1-2 spots ahead of Diamond?
You mean #27?
by JBImaknee on
Dec 8, 2008 12:25 PM CST
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when you compare that list
to where we stood before the 2007 draft and trade deadline, it is absolutely amazing.
by clark on
Dec 8, 2008 10:25 AM CST
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Boy, they're really high on Martin Perez
Kinda wonder why Main is all the way down at #8 while he’s up there at #5. Odd.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on
Dec 8, 2008 10:28 AM CST
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Also
Interesting that Golson got best athelete over Beltre – and that Warner Madrigal got best slider in the organization.
Madrigal really has the best slider in the org?
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on
Dec 8, 2008 10:30 AM CST
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was also surprised Perez was ahead of Main
"Never go with a hippie to a second location."
by jcAustin on
Dec 8, 2008 10:30 AM CST
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Well in another thread
JParks put it perfectly that with Main guys who have him ranked high are either ahead of the curve or foolishly optimistic.
by Michael Cave on
Dec 8, 2008 10:47 AM CST
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Yep
BA ranking him lower shouldn’t bother anyone much. He showed better stuff in FIL than during the season and only pitched around 50 innings. This year would be the breakout for him if he can carry it over.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 11:04 AM CST
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I was thinking the exact same thing.
Perez is good, but better than Teagarden? Ahead of Main?
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
by ghtd36 on
Dec 8, 2008 11:10 AM CST
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That's more debatable
I think you could argue it either way, but BA obviously thinks that his is higher. I choose to just look at it more incramentally. Teagarden is over there with the position players. Over here with the pitchers, Feliz and Holland have established themselves as high end prospects. Perez and Main are the two guys in the system who have demonstrated the potential to join them. Next season I hope that one or two of the others going that group, that Perez and Main match their potential with the sorts of seasons Feliz and Holland had, and that Feliz and Holland sustain their miles-like status.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 11:30 AM CST
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looking at it that way
who do you see as the most likely to file in behind Main and Perez? It seems like Neil Ramirez has the potential to dominate and truly be a front line starter if his control improves. Anyone else?
by clark on
Dec 8, 2008 11:44 AM CST
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Yeah
while the lack of command/control worries you that it may inhibit him, this is why I thought he should get the nod over Boscan. I think that Beavan has the potential if his stuff picks up some like he thinks it will. Font obviously has the physical ability, though even if he breaks out it will most likely be contained in the lower levels. That’s about it for possible super, super upside guys (obviously you can’t be sure, just look at Holland). But it’s why a lot of us are big on Ross and Wieland. They have that feel of guys who could become pretty prominent over the course of the next year or so. Kennil Gomez probably shouldn’t be overlooked either, if he is or can get to 100%.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 11:53 AM CST
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Tanner Roark
He’s the guy I look at as a potential Holland. There’s little chance that will happen, but he could be a nice surprise.
by Andy Seiler on
Dec 8, 2008 11:56 AM CST
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Tanner Roark...
Andy, are you doing Tanner Roark’s profile any time soon?
"Alright class. Now that I've explained how silly the theory of evloution is, and how it's impossible for a specie to change over time, let's refocus on the Bible. I'd like to direct your attention to Genesis. Okay, now here's how the snake lost his voice..."
by YourNameHere on
Dec 8, 2008 12:14 PM CST
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January
I have him on my list for some time in late-January.
by Andy Seiler on
Dec 8, 2008 12:33 PM CST
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as a reliever?
I don’t see him bumping anyone out of a rotation spot in this system. And as a reliever, he doesnt really profile as a closer. So how can you even deign to compare him to top rotation guys?
by Goyogringo on
Dec 8, 2008 1:13 PM CST
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Bakersfield
I wouldn’t be shocked to see him in the rotation in Bakersfield to start the season. He could have an edge over Evan Reed due to his success late in the season.
by Andy Seiler on
Dec 8, 2008 1:26 PM CST
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I've got reed at frisco
either in the bullpen or in the rotation and Roark isn’t unseating anyone in A+/A. Also, his #s at illinois suggest bullpen all the way. Finally, i think that his 2 starts last year were spot starts and not an indication of the next holland in the making…Just my opinion.
I like him in the bullpen where he excelled.
by Goyogringo on
Dec 8, 2008 1:32 PM CST
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Holland Last Year
If you looked at Derek Holland last year, there’s no way you could have predicted what happened. It’s the same sort of thing for Roark now. I think they’ll give him an opportunity to start. The people he’s competing against for a rotation slot are Zach Phillips, Reed, Tatusko, and possibly Kennil Gomez, with Beavan, Main, and Murphy as virtual locks. I’d pick Roark and Phillips out of those guys to fill the last 2 slots with Gomez either in the bullpen or in Hickory’s rotation. I think they limit the innings for Gomez by putting him in the ‘pen to start the year. That’s why I think Roark will have a slot at Bakersfield. He competed against more advanced guys last year playing Indy ball, and his stuff is good. He would have been drafted in the top 10 rounds last year if he hadn’t had the academic issues at Illinois. He’s the real deal more than people think.
by Andy Seiler on
Dec 8, 2008 1:42 PM CST
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Roark
I like him as well. He’s basically a two-pitch guy, so I think he will eventually be in the pen, but I can see him getting a few looks in the rotation next season.
I think Reed has much better stuff, though. Reed will on my 9 to watch in ’09 list.
by jparks77 on
Dec 8, 2008 1:48 PM CST
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My A+ rotation is a wee bit different
main, castillo, beavan, kirkman, Tmurph, Gomez
Castillo remains a starter until he proves he can’t be this year
Gomez was shut down for 1/2 season so I think he will be fine but anticipate he will split a start with Castillo ….
As for Roark, his ILL stats are really unimpressive…
by Goyogringo on
Dec 8, 2008 1:51 PM CST
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Castillo?
You really think Castillo deserves a rotation slot in Bakersfield? I see him repeating A ball in Hickory.
by Andy Seiler on
Dec 8, 2008 1:52 PM CST
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Wow:
Feliz’s fastball might rate as a true 80 pitch on the 20-80 scouting scale.
We know his FB is great, but you don’t see that too often.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 10:28 AM CST
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Yeah that is
a once in every 5-10 yrs thing for each organization. If he can ever just develop two average secondary pitches he could be really good. If one of those secondary pitches ever develops into a above average or good pitch he would be scary. That being said I really think with his movement (mechanics) suggests that he can develop his offspeed stuff.
by Michael Cave on
Dec 8, 2008 10:36 AM CST
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Fitt
is pretty bullish on his secondary stuff fwiw.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 10:37 AM CST
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Z,
I know that you have seen him pitch and im sure ill see you at Frisco sometime this season but I would definitely agree with Fitt. I mean he tips some of his pitches pretty blatantly however that was more slowing down his motion than his arm. For example, I went with a friend one game and right when Feliz started his motion my friend started saying put on the blinker here comes the CU.
Also worth noting is that he has very long fingers which will help him on both pitches (slider, CU). He does the same thing that Beavan does a bit on his slider, he comes around and tries to break it with his wrist as opposed to just simply lettting his fingers produce the necessary spin. I was more impressed with the action his CU than I thought I would be.
by Michael Cave on
Dec 8, 2008 10:44 AM CST
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I agree
He has an aptitude. He has some of it to do, but it was pretty remarkable how much progress he made over the course of 2008, at least from reports of where that stuff was the previous year.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 11:06 AM CST
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What amazes me
is that I think every single name on that list was acquired or signed with the Rangers in the last 2 years except Teagarden.
by cjcheng on
Dec 8, 2008 10:35 AM CST
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Yep
and it doesn’t stop there. It’s why it’s so hard for me to understand why people started asking for Daniels’ head again this fall.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 10:37 AM CST
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yep
With all that impact talent and depth, it’s easy to see why many talent evaluators regard the system as the best in baseball.
by BHill on
Dec 8, 2008 10:38 AM CST
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Well and
also Goldstein specifically called JD out as a very good GM. I respect Goldstein’s opinion on guys a great deal.
by Michael Cave on
Dec 8, 2008 10:46 AM CST
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Goldstein, along with Keith Law and pretty much everyone at BP and BA
Those types definitely respect Daniels.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 11:07 AM CST
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You mean Law, Goldstein, BA >> Josey Wales and Beat Weed?
Who’d have known…
Nah, noob.
by Brian Thomas on
Dec 8, 2008 11:11 AM CST
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WHY AREN'T WE TRADING SMOAK FOR PITCHING RIGHT NOW?!?!?
RABBLE!
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
by ghtd36 on
Dec 8, 2008 11:12 AM CST
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Prospects have no value!
They are big zeroes until they do it in THE SHOW!
Nah, noob.
by Brian Thomas on
Dec 8, 2008 11:14 AM CST
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"This thing" is all
Magic Beans!
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on
Dec 8, 2008 11:20 AM CST
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RABBLE RABBLE
Gerald Laird: One Man, 5 Scoops.
by Maximilian on
Dec 8, 2008 11:30 AM CST
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See
John Danks, Adrian Gonzalez, Chris Young…
People don’t forget.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on
Dec 8, 2008 11:14 AM CST
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See Chris Davis
Justin Smoak, Neftali Feliz, Derek Holland, Michael Main, Martin Perez, Josh Hamilton, Max Ramirez, etc.
by hiafex on
Dec 8, 2008 12:23 PM CST
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Okay...
the average Rangers fan doesn’t know who Smoak, Holland, Feliz, Main and Perez are. They do know A-Gon, Danks and CY. That’s why a lot of people still call for JD to be fired.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on
Dec 8, 2008 12:48 PM CST
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Chris Young isn't very good.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on
Dec 8, 2008 12:33 PM CST
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He's still better than most of the guys we had on the mound last year
by JBImaknee on
Dec 8, 2008 12:43 PM CST
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Sure, by a smidge.
But that ain’t saying much.
He’s still not a very good pitcher.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on
Dec 8, 2008 12:50 PM CST
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He isn't a good pitcher?
Explain his career ERA+ of 113?
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on
Dec 8, 2008 12:51 PM CST
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Expalin his walk rate increasing every year for the last 4 years
or him leading the majors in Flyball ratio 4 of the last 5 years…
I like CY, as the back of the rotation starter here. In Petco you give up a walk and then a long fly ball, you get out of the inning. In Arlington you just gave up a 2 run bomb.
It is oversimplification, but it is the best way to get the point across.
by laxtonto on
Dec 8, 2008 12:54 PM CST
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Bottom line is results
and he did well in Texas and he’s done well in SD.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on
Dec 8, 2008 1:00 PM CST
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Petco and some good luck.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on
Dec 8, 2008 1:15 PM CST
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HIs numbers were good in TX
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on
Dec 8, 2008 1:18 PM CST
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His road numbers are good
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on
Dec 8, 2008 1:19 PM CST
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His TRA* numbers the past 4 years:
2005: 4.52
2006: 4.98
2007: 4.49
2008: 5.30
He’s had two pretty good seasons, one pretty okay season and one bad as hell season.
He’s not very good.
He’s a useful guy when he’s healthy and, sure, I’d like to have him back, but I’m not kicking myself that we have him up like with Danks or with Hafner a few years ago.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on
Dec 8, 2008 1:28 PM CST
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Most of?
His ERA + of 97 was better than every Rangers’ SP except Ponson and McCarthy (22 IP).
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on
Dec 8, 2008 12:50 PM CST
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Wow!
a 97 ERA+? That’s the very definition of awesome.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 1:03 PM CST
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?
his worst season of his career was still better than ever Rangers pitcher last season. You’re awesome, Z.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on
Dec 8, 2008 1:18 PM CST
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I just don't know what your point is
He’s a pretty good pitcher who looks way better because of his environment. The Rangers made a ridiculously stupid trade in dealing him and Gonzalez away. The fact that people are now calling for Daniels to be fired because of things that happened in 2005 and 2006 and ignoring 2007 and 2008 just shows that they aren’t paying attention and just want to vent frustration over a bad major league team, not look at the sitaution sincerely. It’s lazy.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 1:22 PM CST
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That's exactly my point!
the average fan who would be calling for him to be fired does so because he isn’t familiar with our farm system (the thing that JD has done well).
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on
Dec 8, 2008 1:38 PM CST
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Fair enough
I took it as though you were forwarding it, not that you were just summarizing what the less informed think about.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 1:42 PM CST
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Fans only see results in the majors
They believe that Young could pitch like he did in PETCO (which is a pitchers park) in the Ballpark (which is a hitters park). They see results. They saw that Eaton never did much here, and Young is successful over there. They’ll call for his head every time.
But true fans see that when Young pitched here, during the summer months, he was worn out because of the heat and had a tendency to leave his fastball high and let hitter mash it to the stands. I honestly believe that if Young stayed here, he wouldn’t be pitching like he is now. He would be an off and on again injuried pitcher who probably couldn’t hold up here
I do wish the best for him though
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on
Dec 8, 2008 2:21 PM CST
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I do think the trigger on CY
was pulled too early. The idea that he couldn’t handle the Texas heat was pre-mature in my opinion. I don’t think such a stance could be deduced from a guy who was 25-26 and only pitched 200 career IP in Texas.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on
Dec 8, 2008 2:49 PM CST
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I would have given him more time
The Rangers simply couldn’t afford to not give pitchers every chance to succeed here.
But if you were looking to trade him, the biggest problem was going for a trade like Aki/Eaton. That’s just terrible. Still, I don’t think Young would have ever done much here.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on
Dec 8, 2008 2:56 PM CST
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Yeah
I think we learned from Danks (who struggled in AA/AAA) and Volquez (who struggled in MLB) that you can’t be trigger happy with pitching prospects but give them multiple chances to overcome their struggles.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on
Dec 8, 2008 2:59 PM CST
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JD and fan patience
the thing that really really makes me mad, and JD has blown it a few times, but for fans and others to get onto JD when he said day 1 that its was a 5 year plan, with multiple 1 year plans. well you cant call for a guys head after 2 and a half years?
thats really shortsided. especially after looking at the situation he came into.
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on
Dec 8, 2008 3:05 PM CST
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the problem
was those original one year plans produced some very costly mistakes on his part. our stable of young talent was not great when he came in, but he didn’t help matters with the Padres and White Sox trades in his attempts to make our rotation competitive right away. i admit that, beyond the Padres trade, his other mistakes mostly come down to bad luck, but you can’t come into a job, state you have a five year plan, and then expect that it will result in having judgment withheld for five years.
trust me, i tried it at my own job.
by clark on
Dec 8, 2008 3:14 PM CST
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What I find interesting
Is that they also have Face moving to Third by 2012.
Kanye, you want to be the voice of this generation? Get in line! It goes me, Obamagirl, the Freecreditreport.com guys, then It's a tie between you-and Crocs.
-Stephen Colbert
by Conjunction on
Dec 8, 2008 10:38 AM CST
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Why is that interesting?
Andrus should be arriving well before 2012, hopefully.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on
Dec 8, 2008 10:43 AM CST
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Any questions we should ask Fitt?
Jindal - 2012
by Longhorn on
Dec 8, 2008 10:51 AM CST
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Blake Beavan
Obviously, Beavan was picked ahead of Main and Borbon in the 07 draft. He was reported to work in the low 90s however in his debut season with Clinton he worked in the 88-92 range reportedly but with rather impressive numbers. The K’s just werent there. Two things, 1) How close was he to getting on the top 10 list? and 2) If his velocity returns to his reported HS levels how far would he jump up the list?
by Michael Cave on
Dec 8, 2008 10:57 AM CST
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At this point
I’d be most curious about his opinion on those arms who we have in the 11-20 range (plus a few we’re voting on now) who didn’t make his top ten. Boscan maybe more than anyone else.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 11:08 AM CST
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I got to go run a tutoring session during the chat...
anybody think they can get me a few Lemon, Vallejo at SS questions in?
Along with a better breakdown of the 18 and under LA pitcher rankings
a Who is the Latin American prospect that we have never heard about
Truthfully I am not worried, I know the chat is going to be awesome to read in any case.
by laxtonto on
Dec 8, 2008 11:15 AM CST
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Holland's change
Fitt describes it as being “slightly above-average” (81-83 mph) with good arm speed and fade. While I agree with this scouting report 100%, I find it usually to name Holland as having the system’s best change.
I think Poveda has a legit plus offering with his change, and in my opinion, that trumps a pitch described as a slightly above-average offering.
by jparks77 on
Dec 8, 2008 10:59 AM CST
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agreed
also, according to the frisco announcers, Holland’s slider was really good and was one of the reasons he flew through the system before his velocity increased. Fitt says it is his third best pitch. What gives?
by Goyogringo on
Dec 8, 2008 1:19 PM CST
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I listened to the venerable pair a fair amount
Give me Fitt’s interpretation.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 1:23 PM CST
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Like Z says
I wouldn’t put too much stock into the Frisco announcers.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Dec 8, 2008 1:25 PM CST
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BA should have made an exception
Should have done a Top 20 instead of Top 10 for Texas…
Jindal - 2012
by Longhorn on
Dec 8, 2008 11:00 AM CST
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nice list
fastest baserunner: Golson.
can anyone remind me how many SBs did Vallejo have last year?
Also, say hello to David Paisano, the best defensive OF in the system. We can still break even on the Danks trade.
"Yeah, like I had a chance there" - Lancaster batter, after striking out against Derek Holland
by chrisR on
Dec 8, 2008 11:07 AM CST
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all paisano needs to do now
is hit his weight. i liked him when we snagged him though and have always cheered for him. he’s still real young. he needs to figure it out quick though.
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on
Dec 8, 2008 3:17 PM CST
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That Borbon picture is hilarious
Huntressa should make it his avatar.
So, the 1st 7 guys all profile as possible all stars. Great to hear it confirmed from less biased sources.
Nah, noob.
by Brian Thomas on
Dec 8, 2008 11:09 AM CST
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What is it?
I don’t have BA ;(
I have to wait for the handbook like the ugly plebe I am…
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on
Dec 8, 2008 12:36 PM CST
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Just for you, homey, from the chat:
: Travis from Austin, TX asks:
Where does Marcus Lemon rate in the Rangers system? Lemon seems to have average tools but plays above them. Thanks.
A: Aaron Fitt: His makeup is his best attribute — as you said, he does play above his rather modest tools. He fits as a utility player down the road, which is why it was encouraging to see him play second base and show promise there in instructs this fall.
Nah, noob.
by Brian Thomas on
Dec 8, 2008 3:52 PM CST
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CUT AND PASTE! CUT AND PASTE!
(that’s a joke to those who didn’t read AJM’s post. Don’t do it.)
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on
Dec 8, 2008 11:15 AM CST
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Hey,,, I posted a poll at minor league ball about the rangers and A's top
lets not forget to vote…
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/12/8/684912/a-s-ranger-s-ba-top-10
by laxtonto on
Dec 8, 2008 11:16 AM CST
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Heh
Either Texas is going to win by a landslide, or all the A’s fans haven’t arrived yet.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on
Dec 8, 2008 11:22 AM CST
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You mean in Oakland?
Naw, it’s 9:24 here on the west coast. Unless Oakland has their own time zone now.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on
Dec 8, 2008 11:24 AM CST
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Thanks
I was obviously being completely literal.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 11:27 AM CST
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I posted a link on the A'ssite as well
by laxtonto on
Dec 8, 2008 11:37 AM CST
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Traitor!
;)
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on
Dec 8, 2008 11:40 AM CST
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That diary
is going to devolve into a shouting match about which team is doing more ballot stuffing.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Dec 8, 2008 11:25 AM CST
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lol
yep.
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
by Longhorn on
Dec 8, 2008 11:27 AM CST
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Well
Make sure somebody links it over at the Newberg report then.
We must smite the unbelievers!
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on
Dec 8, 2008 11:27 AM CST
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Uh oh
Josh Hamilton hit .304 with 32 home runs and an American League-leading 130 RBIs while emerging as the face of the Rangers franchise.
Someone’s going to be pissed.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on
Dec 8, 2008 11:19 AM CST
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Heh
I live for the day when “The Face” is dethroned. Now that Laird is finally gone, that’s my new holy grail.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on
Dec 8, 2008 11:26 AM CST
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F'n right!!!
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on
Dec 8, 2008 3:19 PM CST
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The response:
Gerald Laird: One Man, 5 Scoops.
by Maximilian on
Dec 8, 2008 11:39 AM CST
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HAHA
I literally LOL’d, and as a result, you are REC’d.
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
by ghtd36 on
Dec 8, 2008 12:28 PM CST
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Was anyone else saddened by the reminder of Vincent Sinisi
I’d tried to forget about that.
by BuckyB on
Dec 8, 2008 11:39 AM CST
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we spent a lot of money in that 2003 draft
with little to show for it now. i cannot believe we went from the sort of team that could fork over 2M to take a chance on Sinisi to a team that is completely inactive in FA until the January bargain bin develops.
by clark on
Dec 8, 2008 11:46 AM CST
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Well, we did offer 5+mm for Inoa and 7mm for Tazawa, so it's not like we're sudenly not willing to spend on amateurs.
Plus we went way over slot for Mr. Justin Smoak and Mr. Robbie Ross.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on
Dec 8, 2008 12:38 PM CST
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Just curious...
if Salty still qualified as a prospect (which i know he is far from it), where do you think he would be. With how young he is I still like to compare him to the rest of the prospects on the list. Top 5 ahead of TT, or behind him? Would he even be top 10 at this point. I would probably put him behind Main at #9
by erikj07 on
Dec 8, 2008 11:46 AM CST
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Something good
if you value Goldstein’s opinion (and from Jason’s chat he seems to still like Saltalamacchia), he does do the all players U25 ranking, so he’ll incorporate Salty there. I’d guess he’d be somewhere pretty close to Teagarden, probably directly in front or behind him.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 12:00 PM CST
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In front. Way in front. Hopefully, I mean.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on
Dec 8, 2008 12:39 PM CST
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My guess is that Goldstein will have him in front
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 1:04 PM CST
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I would bet. . .
That Teagarden is about 5th on the prospects list, and Salty is about that high on the under 25 list.
by philkid3 on
Dec 8, 2008 1:43 PM CST
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Chat
I don’t know if its free content or not but if not does anyone have any questions they’d like asked?
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on
Dec 8, 2008 12:54 PM CST
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Said it in the top 10 thread, but i have to miss the chat to run a study session....
Arias? 1 game in the Winter Leagues..Shoulder etc?
Vallejo/Lemonhead sticking at SS…ceiling etc
Golson? can Rudy/who ever else we can get to look at him fix him? What is his Ceiling
Who is the next Latin American kid we have never heard about to pop up at ST to make people go wow?
by laxtonto on
Dec 8, 2008 1:00 PM CST
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Q
I had asked about Arias but submitted one about the disappearance, had asked a similar question about depth at SS and submitted the other two. The more questions the longer they stick around it seems.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on
Dec 8, 2008 1:06 PM CST
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Tex's bonus - $4.5 million
That’s a ton in 2001 dollars. But think about it – he played damn well while he was here and he restocked the farm when he left. $4.5 MM well spent.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on
Dec 8, 2008 1:10 PM CST
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Fitt says
BA has Boscan in front of Neil Ramirez in their top 30. I saw it as a toss-up that I gave to Ramirez for his 1-2 punch, but just fwiw. He also suggested that there are a few spots between them as well.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 1:31 PM CST
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Just to add
He does see Ramirez with the kind of upside that some of us have talked about, among the very best in the system, but he rates likelihood highly enough that Boscan comes out ahead.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 1:36 PM CST
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So he’s saying Neil is good but less likely than Boscan to actualize the talent, so Boscan comes out ahead.
Have to agree, and it’s reflected in the LSB rankings too.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on
Dec 8, 2008 1:52 PM CST
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rankings
and for those looking at numbers Boscan looks very very good right now. I’m anxious to see if he can maintain those sexy nos. at a higher level.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Dec 8, 2008 1:55 PM CST
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Yes
Ramirez misses bats now will likely in the future. Boscan, not so much, despite his excellent attributes.
by Goyogringo on
Dec 8, 2008 2:00 PM CST
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Missing bats
I’m really intrigued by Moscoso on that front. Only 15 pitchers in the minors had a higher K/9 than him last year, and none of them (save one guy in the DSL) had a better K/BB ratio. I want to see this guy in Frisco just to watch the Ks pile up.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Dec 8, 2008 2:08 PM CST
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system leaders in h/9
just because:
Ramirez: 5.11
TMurphy: 5.53 (though most in A-)
Moscoso: 6.23
Feliz: 6.29
Weiland: 6.6
Pimentel: 6.61
Holland: 6.63 (decreased to 5.37 in his combined A+/AA starts!)
pretty interesting group of advanced and low level guys
by Goyogringo on
Dec 8, 2008 2:22 PM CST
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And I don't see how anyone
can look at Moscoso’s numbers and say a deal for him and Melo is a poor return for Laird.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Dec 8, 2008 2:33 PM CST
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His #s are so good
that I think i will ditch the reliever talk (and cross my fingers re the shoulder) and say he is a must for a rotation spot even if it takes him a little longer
by Goyogringo on
Dec 8, 2008 2:41 PM CST
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He's 25 and he's a big time injury risk... but, that said, I agree.
Nice deal for us, for the Tigers, and for Laird.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on
Dec 8, 2008 3:17 PM CST
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He did maintain them nicely on a big jump from DSL to NWL, so that’s at least a good first sign. Hopefully the same will be true as he passes through full season A levels. I would expect that he’ll do quite well in Low A and that High A might be where hitters start to test his stuff.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 2:02 PM CST
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It seems as though
He thinks Ramirez is going to be our Holland next year and just break out
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on
Dec 8, 2008 2:22 PM CST
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I'll agree with this list,
but I wonder what the next 10 in our system would be. Here’s my guess:
Hurley
Beavan
Kiker
Boscan
Vallejo
Ramirez
Hunter
Ross
Font
Poveda
And this is just my opinion. Any body want to take a guess based on BA’s top 10. What would your next ten be?
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on
Dec 8, 2008 2:04 PM CST
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Well
Boscan is 11, Ramirez around 15. So you’re pretty close there. I have to think that Beavan is #12, though he didn’t comment on that when asked about Beavan in the chat. I’m also guessing that Ross is higher than most people have been projecting, at least as high as you have him there.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 2:07 PM CST
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Probably a little more than they'd like passed onto message boards
but he says that Beavan and Hurley are 12 and 13, so you did well there.
And I’m much less confident about my Ross statement after this comment:
they’ve got elite prospects in the making at the lower levels, with guys like Boscan, Neil Ramirez, Wilmer Font, Joe Wieland and maybe even Robbie Ross
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 2:15 PM CST
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Really got no problem with the list
These players could easily change position in the list in anyones rankings. It just shows how strong our system is.
I do got a question though. Out of the players we got in the minors, which ones do you all see reaching Arlington this year (at any point)?
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on
Dec 8, 2008 2:24 PM CST
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First off, Hurley, Hunter, Ramirez, Arias, Madrigal and Teagarden are still prospects but have played in the majors so they’re givens.
I don’t think they’ll be able to resist at least a look-see at Feliz, so him and Holland.
I tend to believe that they’ll look at Borbon later on. Golson maybe, would probably say yes on him.
I think Moscoso and Diamond get looks later on when they’re trudging through pitcher auditions #30 and 31.
Vallejo might, since he’s on the 40, but he needs work still. I’ll say no on him and Andrus (mostly wishful thinking on Andrus, probably).
And a number of the relievers could, like Strop, Jones, Garr, Torres and maybe Laughter.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 2:30 PM CST
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I don't think that at 30 years old
Brian Gordon qualifies as a reliever. There will certainly be a few minor league free agent types like him who will have a chance.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 3:50 PM CST
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yeah
that was tongue in cheek. but, it should be pointed out that this will only be his third (??) year to pitch, and he has shown pretty serious progress so far. he has owned AA ball and was pitching very well in AAA ball at the end of last year, and the big stage didn’t seem to overwhelm him after his call up.
by clark on
Dec 8, 2008 4:20 PM CST
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all of these types that sign
are for insurance only. The increased depth in the system means that they have little chance to stick.
by Goyogringo on
Dec 8, 2008 4:11 PM CST
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Beavan's velo
Fitt said that Beavans velo came back at various times in Instructs to the 93-95 range. That is the first that I’ve heard of it.
by Goyogringo on
Dec 8, 2008 2:43 PM CST
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Great News!
That is super-huge.
And kinda what some have expected.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on
Dec 8, 2008 2:46 PM CST
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Strange
I almost think that cannot be accurate, because that means so many other people missed it. With all the people that went to instructs, I’d be shocked if every single other person missed it.
by Andy Seiler on
Dec 8, 2008 2:49 PM CST
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yeah with all the
first-hand reports that we got that would have been big news
by Goyogringo on
Dec 8, 2008 2:51 PM CST
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Heh.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on
Dec 8, 2008 3:19 PM CST
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BA
To me it seems like they are always a little bullish on velo.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on
Dec 8, 2008 2:49 PM CST
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I think they are sometimes
but I certainly wouldn’t say that it’s a consistent trend or that one of BA’s guys is much worse about it than others. I can name several guys on top ten lists whose typical velocity given in their BA profile was a little below what I’d heard.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 3:59 PM CST
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Ohh eM Gee
Q: Joseph from Fort Worth, TX asks:
Over/Under, 7 1/2 Ranger Prospects in the BA Top 100? Thanks for the chat.
A:
Aaron Fitt: I’ll take the over.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on
Dec 8, 2008 3:03 PM CST
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HOLY SHIT.
In a good way :)
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on
Dec 8, 2008 3:19 PM CST
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Well it won’t be over eight, but with Beltre and Main, I think there’s a reasonable chance. He doesn’t know, though. They haven’t decided them, and I suspect that it will be a close call on at least one of them.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 3:51 PM CST
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I'm really surprised by his panning of Ross
That is not what we’ve been hearing.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 4:00 PM CST
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MJH doesn't seem too enamored.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on
Dec 8, 2008 4:02 PM CST
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Seemingly so.
It’s that inverted W.
by Andy Seiler on
Dec 8, 2008 4:05 PM CST
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I hate the I-Dub, but it has certainly worked for Peavy so far.
I’m no pitching coach, but I wonder about the feasibility of getting an 18 year old kid to abandon the I-Dub for a “better” load position.
Heh. “Better load position”. Ha!
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on
Dec 8, 2008 5:05 PM CST
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Peavy has had some injury problems already
I think we’ll have to wait until his career is over to know just how much it affected him.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on
Dec 9, 2008 12:29 PM CST
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Who is this Leury Garcia fool, and why haven't you told me all about him already?
Nah, noob.
by Brian Thomas on
Dec 8, 2008 4:04 PM CST
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Because at least on paper
he looks like an all glove zero bat type. He’s 5-7, 150, and he hit .209/.250/.279 in rookie ball with an 8/40 BB/SO ratio. He was just 17 so you never know, but that’s why.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 4:07 PM CST
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there were some good reports about him
during instructs. He’s a diminutive little chap, 5-7, 153 or something like that…
by Goyogringo on
Dec 8, 2008 4:07 PM CST
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I thought I read some accounts of him
during instructs that said he failed to impress for such a high pick
by Goyogringo on
Dec 8, 2008 4:09 PM CST
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was this comment
spurred by something that was said in the chat, and if so, can you at least hint at what is being said?
this guy was pretty much a lock for a 1C or 2 round pick and the reports indicated that he was very polished. how can his stock have fallen so much without having thrown a professional pitch?
by clark on
Dec 8, 2008 4:18 PM CST
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Last question of the chat
Q: Ben from Leland Grove asks:
Did 2008 draft picks Robbie Ross and Tim Murphy make your top 30? Seems as though lefties aren’t a rare commodity in this system. Which one ranked ahead of the other, and why?
A: Aaron Fitt: Both made the top 30, in the 20s. Ross has the higher ceiling but was not overly impressive after signing — he did not show the kind of explosive stuff scouts saw from him this spring in high school. Murphy is a safer bet but doesn’t have as much upside. Expect Murphy to fly through the system next year thanks to his competitiveness and quality fastball-curveball attack. He lacks a quality changeup and I see him as a reliever at the major league level, but his curveball eats up lefthanded hitters.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 4:23 PM CST
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Instructs
I’m guessing Fitt only saw Ross as a pro at instructs. It’s tough to grade him down just for that. Just like it’s a little too much to grade Main up just for that.
by Andy Seiler on
Dec 8, 2008 4:26 PM CST
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I thnk it's more that he
talked to scouts from opposing teams who saw him there and panned him.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 4:27 PM CST
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Yeah
I just don’t think he deserves to be punished for coming out to his first pro instructs and showing rust. I’m sure he was pitching side sessions all summer, but that’s not even close to getting on a mound. That’s the difference between a Kiker who signed quickly and Ross who signed late.
by Andy Seiler on
Dec 8, 2008 4:30 PM CST
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agreed
As much as they are working on specific things, pitching to a plan with no men on base, throwing side session, data from instructs can be misleading….unless you are like main, and leave the likes of adair drooling.
by Goyogringo on
Dec 8, 2008 4:30 PM CST
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So Ross doesn't come out as dominate as he was in high school
And they drop him? Ok, he didn’t sign till late, and only pitched at instructions. So there was like a 6 month layoff of pitching.
Any pitcher that takes that much time off is going to feel some effects of rust. He’ll get back into it and pitch like he did in high school again here in a couple of months
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on
Dec 8, 2008 4:28 PM CST
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Well
Beavan had that layoff after signing and then came into this year with a pretty severe velocity dip and his slider wasn’t nearly as good as expected. Maybe that should be pointed out to high school pitchers and get them to sign quickly. Look at Main. He signed quick and other than a small dip in velocity everything else has developed nicely and hes considered a top prospect.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on
Dec 8, 2008 5:20 PM CST
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Anecdotal, for sure.
But that sure could be a good leverage tool in the future.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on
Dec 8, 2008 6:36 PM CST
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it is very difficult
to rank all of these pitchers in the lower levels. I think in most systems where there are really only a few stand out arms at each level, it is much easier, and I think in most systems Ross still makes the top 10. Scouts had to be a little more discerning while attending the Rangers’ instructs because of all the talent.
Any system that can have a LHP come in and dominate like Murphy did and still not rank in the top 20 is just ridiculous and difficult to accurately gauge.
by clark on
Dec 8, 2008 4:44 PM CST
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Fitt has him ranked in the 20s
which is where I have him, but that is just where i have most of the high-ceiling rookies and those that haven’t pitched at all, so I don’t view that ranking as a slight.
by Goyogringo on
Dec 8, 2008 4:24 PM CST
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Found Steal Home over on the DMN Blog
Thought I post it, thought it was funny. Talking about our Top 10
Posted by steal home @ 2:57 PM Mon, Dec 08, 2008
They are meaningless until they reach the majors. Look at all the great major leaguers, they were never on these stupid top 10 lists. When was Roger Clemens ever in the minors? Pedro? Jeter? All these guys went straight to the pros. Top 10 is stupid. Only matters if jonnyboy trades someone of the list, then he better get an mvp in return. This is why I hate the rangers, yet I read about them everyday and complain. to recap: stupid Tom hicks… jd is the worst ever… Nolan rules… minors worthless… etc
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on
Dec 8, 2008 4:19 PM CST
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+1
I say we take up a collection so that he can go back on his ritalin regime
by Goyogringo on
Dec 8, 2008 4:26 PM CST
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I hate you.
eom
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on
Dec 8, 2008 4:30 PM CST
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i like how the three people he named
none of them went straight to the pros.
also, that isn’t really steal home i would guess. otherwise he is panning himself really well.
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on
Dec 8, 2008 4:38 PM CST
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Yeah
pretty sure it’s a bit from someone here.
by Brett Perryman on
Dec 8, 2008 4:43 PM CST
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Yah.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on
Dec 8, 2008 6:18 PM CST
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My DMN handle is Beat Weed
Nah, noob.
by Brian Thomas on
Dec 8, 2008 7:44 PM CST
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Damn funny though
Because half the DMN commenters probably agree with that, yet have no idea what the joke is.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on
Dec 8, 2008 10:37 PM CST
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Dude
Over on that blog, guys like you are a dime a dozen.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by lonestarJon on
Dec 8, 2008 11:10 PM CST
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This is one gold mine of a signature.
meet me at the mawwl... it's goin dowwn...
by oc on
Dec 9, 2008 1:23 AM CST
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