More trade takes from around the interwebs
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 8, 2008 10:50 AM CST
Email
PrintDavid Pinto calls it a "very nice trade" for the Rangers.
BTB says it is a good trade for both sides.
And there's some discussion amongst the Primates on this deal at BTF...
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Add a poll..
.. let’s get the LSB readers’ take.
never
I’m still not sure which simpsons character i prefer. I need 6 more months at least.
the preceding post was a great success.
Does anyone get the feeling
That maybe Adam has forgotten how to take that poll down?
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
lol, indeed.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
Meh.
It doesn’t look like a disaster, but I’m definitely not excited by this deal. We needed to move Laird and we have, but I certainly hoped for a more interesting return. Hopefully it works out.
heh at this comment from dave cameron
“-2.5 offense + 5 defense = +2.5 runs compared to a league average catcher. That makes Laird something like a +2 to +2.5 win player, or a guy who should command something like $10 to $12 millione per season on the open market”
the preceding post was a great success.
Definitely.
I know nothing about these prospects. But assuming I’m right in that they’re not all that exciting, two years of Laird at a few million dollars should return something more. Not awful, though.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
Yep
He has a strong arm, but he appears to suck at framing pitches and blocking balls in the dirt. Add into the fact he can’t really hit and you have a player that is not too valuable.
Blocking balls in the dirt
I’m not sure why one would say he sucks at that. The numbers suggest that he’s okay at that.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 8, 2008 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
The market is usually crazy
pay a ton of money for a slightly above average player at best
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Matchmaker, catch me a catch
One official familiar with the Rangers’ thinking said last night that the team entered the offseason with the intention of trading just one catcher. Now, the official said, the team would have to be "overwhelmed" in order to trade another. That would suggest that the price to the Sox for either of those catchers would almost certainly include top pitching prospects Clay Buchholz or Justin Masterson.
http://www.weei.com/The-Night-the-Red-Sox-Catching-Market-Changed/3452337
Call 1-800-DOCTORB. The B is for bargain!
So if we don't trade another
how are going to decide the 2008 situation… 50 spring at bats? more thrilling platoons?
the preceding post was a great success.
What is so bad about
a Teagarden/Salty platoon? I know I’ve been harping on this, but it’s a completely different dynamic than what we had this season.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 8, 2008 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
Not bad....
necessarily, but I think that most people here were thinking that coming into this offseason we could flip two of Salty/TT/Max/Laird for at least a major league ready starting pitcher +. To have a ML ready starter and one of Salty or TT starting full time would be a much better use of resources as opposed to a Salty/TT platoon and no pitcher in the rotation to show for it.
but I think that most people here were thinking that coming into this offseason we could flip two of Salty/TT/Max/Laird for at least a major league ready starting pitcher +.
People may have thought that, but it was totally unrealistic.
Yep
at least the caliber of MLB ready starter people envisioned
by Brett Perryman on Dec 8, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know if it's bad
but imo Salt and Teagarden are 2 starting catchers. I don’t think it’s going to do either one of them justice to have them split time. If the Rangers are serious about trading Blalock, the best thing in my mind is to have one of Salt or Teagarden as the starter, then have Max take the DH role that was for Blalock and you can use him as a backup catcher as well.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. 45 given up in the 1st quarter. Wow. But still we're better than Washington! Oh and, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-10 baby!
Ok
So you have about 700 PAs to dole out from your catcher position. Neither of these guys really needs more than about 450-500. You would prefer to give some slug 250 of them to having each of these guys get 350 instead of 450?
by Brett Perryman on Dec 8, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
Good way to put it
plus, the team is watching these guys every day and making a long term decision, letting the catcher market develop mid-season, or next offseason, etc.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Huh?
I said that Max should be the backup to one of Salt or Teagarden. I don’t think he’s a “slug.” Then whomever is left off gets traded. If they don’t find a good trade partner, just keep all three. Max is the least polished catcher but his bat is good enough to play at DH. Meanwhile, Salt and Teagarden’s value take a hit if they are at any other position other than catcher. I don’t have confidence in Wash to let him make the decision on splitting time with Salt and Teagarden. As soon as one gets hot, he’s gonna ride him out and the other catcher will catch sporadically.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. 45 given up in the 1st quarter. Wow. But still we're better than Washington! Oh and, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-10 baby!
Alright
I think that Max should be in AAA trying to become a better catcher, but fair enough. You may get your wish.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 8, 2008 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
I hate the idea of a platoon between those two.
I know we’ve been over this, but I hate hate hate it.
Hate.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
No!
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
Mmmmn
Leverage…
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
Yep.
I think dealing Laird was more helpful for this reason than for the guys we got back. Sure the two pitchers are okay (and more than I thought JD could get back for him), but now the “Rangers need to trade one of these guys” pressure if off the club. (Pressure incidentally brought upon them by stupid comments about needing to get rid of salary…).
M's signed Chris Shelton
Ah, shelton. What a glorious ranger career.
the preceding post was a great success.
Firecrotch Allert!
But, does he believe in dinosaurs?
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
Screw that
I want to know Josey Wales’ opinion.
I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.
I keep both Teagarden & Salty.
I think Teagarden may be a true star if he can stay healthy.
I don’t move Salty because I need somebody to catch 50-60 games when Teagarden can’t go.
When Salty is not catching, I have him at DH with a goal of getting him at least 500 ab’s in The Show.
That way at the end of 2009, I know whether or not Teagarden can stand the rigors of catching in The Show and I will know exactly what I have in Salty.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Agree
If you can’t get Buch or Masterson. But you gotta move Blalock before that can really happen.
I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.
I keep all three.
I know that may create a logjam but utilized correctly, you can mix n’ match CDavis, Blalock, Salty between 1B & DH and get everybody enough ab’s.
If healthy, Blalock is going to go off this year and if you need to trade him at least you will get more value.
If he’s not healthy, there are enough ab’s to go around.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
I wouldn't be opposed to it.
But I think Washington would bench Salty a majority of the year. Get the veteran the ABs. I have a feeling we move Blalock after Teixiera is signed.
I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.
JD needs to act like a real GM and give Washington a directive
regarding how he wants Salty & Teagarden to be used this year.
Washington doesn’t like to do it, but you can get away with having two catchers in the line-up at the same time with one of them as the DH.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
I agree
and no mention of Boy Blunder or dipshit Wash. Congrats on making a nice normal post for once.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 8, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
Go piss up a rope, Diggler.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
lol
now there’s the josey we all know…
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 8, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
you know
i think what you said is actually reasonable but any opinion that uses “The Show” (twice!) will have a hard time gaining credibility.
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
Somehow I'll make it thru
the day if you don’t give me credibility, ab03.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
correction
if you don’t give me nobody gives me credibility
and i applaud you for that.
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
You don't know?
Its all about the Great Game and the Show you mother effer
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Don't think I've ever dropped
an mf in here, Gdawg.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
That would mean carrying a third catcher, cause managers never ever DH their backup catcher.
I think it’s dumb, but it is what it is.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
Which is why
I wish Dombrowski would do a Cat for Inge swap.
I don’t want him to actually, you know, play, but having Inge sitting in Cat’s spot on the bench would let them DH Max or Salts or Teag, no matter how Wash’s lunch is digesting.
But you just know Wash would fall madly in love with Inge's goodface and we'd be stuck watching Brandon Inge get 700 PA's this year.
I shuddered just writing that.
Ugh and a half.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
sad thing is
Inge might be better than our currently slated starting 3b.
Don't believe the hype about sloppy seconds. They ain't bad.
That is sad. True, too.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
Cat for Inge Swap
I think the Tigers would be all over that. Inge is owed $6.9 million more over the next two years and is in serious offensive decline. No way JD does that.
by Randy Richardson on Dec 8, 2008 7:29 PM CST up reply actions
Answer to DShepard
Re: Teagarden and Salty…
Blalock, Kiker + PTBNL (like Tim Murphy) for Jonathan Sanchez + A- filler.
Sign Casey Blake for the money Laird and Blalock were on the books for.
Salty DH’s primarily, spelling Teagarden 2 games a week with Hamilton getting a rest by DH’ing in those games.
Doesn’t help the logjam in the outfield, but I have a feeling that a Nationals/Red Sox type team will come up with a need for a RH or LH outfield bat that we can get a couple of no-name/high ceiling A level or A+ level pitchers.
"But the major difference is where Showalter tried to overthink everything Washington at times seems like he isn't thinking at all. " - rentz
What logjam in the OF?
We have Hammy, Cruz, Byrd, and Murphy who are locks. Boggs probably should go to OKC to play everyday. Borbon and Golson should be ready by midseason. And Cat can play out there in an emergency. So we have 3 guys in the minors with options in case of injuries and 4 guys on the active roster. Doesn’t sound like a logjam to me.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
i am all for going after sanchez
using our pitching and middle infield surplus, but I am against giving Blake big time money. That money can be better spent elsewhere, hopefully on a much younger player.
trade
It’s been a whole year since we’ve done somthing nice for the Tigers, and I guess Jon Daniels figured with the auto industry in a bind and it being almost Christmas, why not give away our starting catcher for two suspects? Merry Christmas, Detroit, ho! ho! ho!
Better to get two suspects now than overpay him for two more years and get (maybe) a sandwich pick back for him. He’s a 29 year old catcher with a career .300 OBP with three guys behind him that are cheaper, younger, and have all put up better lines than him in the minors (and haven’t embarrassed themselves in limited time in the majors). I’ll take a likely upgrade of the catcher spot, 3 million cleared in payroll, a new Thomas Diamond, and a LA lotto ticket over two more years of good bunting.
Yep
everyone bashed Laird for the past two-three years and talked about how awful he was, and then expected us to get a badass prospect for him. Something doesn’t add up.
Everyone expected something great?
Then why are the reviews and front page poll generally approving the trade?
the preceding post was a great success.
It's a weird phenomenon
if you read reactions to trades, then look at the polls, the polls are usually more generous. Probably because those who approve don’t feel as much need to talk about it as those who don’t.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 8, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
That, and
the dissenting opinions on this trade (and this isn’t the first comment I’ve seen that called it a ‘giveaway’ and/or cited Gallarraga) are basically verbatim Galloway-ian crapsense. Which always raises my hackles a bit.
Galloway
Don’t read him. I don’t think you should trade your talent unless you get what you want for him, and I can’t believe even Daniels set out to acquire two middlin minor leaguers for Laird . If nothing else, the Rangers could have at least waited for ST. The two players they got weren’t going anywhere.
Holding until ST
Carries the risk that other teams fill their C spots with other resources, leaving you holding all four catchers and squeezing at least one out of PT (or to AA), which squeezes one out of development. Which is a bad thing.
And, ultimately, you’re just not going to get much for a league average catcher under control for two arbitration years.
Because
no one here ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever exaggerates or overstates anything. Ever.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
No, just that
the verbal reaction to almost any happenstance here is often outlandishly dramatic when compared with the significance of said happenstance. Z’s point above is probably even closer to the mark than my snark.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Durrett has an interesting blog entry.
Detroit general manager Dave Dombroski said he had been working on the Laird deal since the general manager’s meetings. He thought the Tigers, Rangers and a third team had a trade in place, but things fell apart last week.
So, once the third party backed out, did the Tigers have to up their contribution or did JD lower his request?
Go Rangers!
My guess...
Moscoso went into the deal once the third team bailed.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 8, 2008 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
That's interesting
I just assumed that it was the other way around.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 8, 2008 6:47 PM CST up reply actions
I suspect...
…the Tigers were trying to move Larish or Joyce as part of a deal to get an arm the Rangers wanted…it sounds like they really didn’t want to deal Moscoso…
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 8, 2008 7:20 PM CST up reply actions
i would guess
the initial deal involved a player like Larish, who the Rangers would have then flipped.
3-team MLB trade
I can’t remember the last time one of those happened.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Dec 8, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
Bay to Sox Manny to Dodgers Some people to Pirates.
Now you remember.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. 45 given up in the 1st quarter. Wow. But still we're better than Washington! Oh and, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-10 baby!
It's the drugs I took in the 60s
Now I remember.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Dec 8, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
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