Rangers "quietly shopping" FOTF
by hightowersmith on Dec 9, 2008 12:09 AM CST
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PrintThis got a verbal "wow" out of me, even if it's just pro forma checking out the market.
I'll take this down tomorrow if it winds up being a non-story, but it would be the expeditious way to free up pitching dollars.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-krodinlobby120808
Let's fill out the word count.
RANGERS SHOPPING YOUNG
The Texas Rangers are quietly shopping shortstop Michael Young, said an AL executive whose team is in the market for a shortstop.
Young, 32, will start to draw on a five-year, $80-million contract extension in 2009. The contract grants him full no-trade rights next season, then limited protection the following two seasons, by which time he’ll have 10-and-5 rights.
The executive said the Rangers seek pitching – preferably young pitching – for Young, who is batting .300 with a .788 OPS in eight seasons. It’s too early to determine the possible destinations, but the Blue Jays, Orioles, Cubs and Dodgers would have the need and financial wherewithal to make it work.
On the other hand, the Rangers might be better off waiting a year, when the free-agent shortstop market is thinner.
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very interesting
I would welcome the right deal, even if we had to include cash. I love MY but his contract is an albatross and getting rid of him now before his inevitable decline starts to accelerate would be wise
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Dec 9, 2008 12:13 AM CST reply actions
Hey Arnold, what do you think of trading MY?
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
hum.
Too bad Ozzy and the White Sox are sellers, Im sure we could have dumped MY on them, with his man-crush on MY.
Josh Hamilton = Baseball Jesus : Chris Davis = Baseball Jesus' Younger Brother
still might be able to
ozzie luvs him some my
lol
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 9, 2008 12:29 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not surprised.
Why wouldn’t you try to get out of that contract? I know Andrus isn’t ready but he’s ready enough. Good luck finding a taker though.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. 45 given up in the 1st quarter. Wow. But still we're better than Washington! Oh and, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-10 baby!
too bad everett isnt out there lol
i keed i keed
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 9, 2008 12:30 AM CST up reply actions
How about SF
Send him packing to SF and receive Matt Cain and let them convert his ass to a corner infielder
BBIMBF
Posted this as a fanshot. I’m not sure when MY’s no-trade cuts in (?) but even so, the contract is a huge hurdle. Actually I’d hate to see him go.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Dec 9, 2008 12:22 AM CST reply actions
why would you hate to see him go?
no matter what he is going to hamstring the team for the next few years and either be a below average 3b, OF or DH
from a personal viewpoint, yes hes a great guy, but at the same time from a team/money viewpoint why would you keep him if you can get any kind of package for him
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 9, 2008 12:31 AM CST up reply actions
yes
but at the same time, is he is a career 102 ops+ player who plays below average defense (GG be damned) and is going to be pushed to another position on the near future where he will be even MORE below avg there than he was at SS (3b or DH) or OF)
oh yea, and did i mention he gets paid a TONTONTON of money over the next 5+ years
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 9, 2008 12:33 AM CST up reply actions
A little more
I expect him to be career average or better offensively the next couple of years, barring injury. And yeah, I have an admiration for a guy who has never been popular with quantitative critics, who supposedly wasn’t going to get a starting job, who has been projected at replacement level, and not insignificantly, won me a few $100 bets over the past seven years. Starter, batting title, all star. He’s the 40-1 shot that wins two legs of the triple crown.
No animosity in this, more like amusement, but I hope he contends for another batting title in the next couple of years.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Dec 9, 2008 2:32 AM CST up reply actions
the probem is that
he is about a 100 ops+ player who doesnt deserve to be paid as much as will get paid and will probably hamstring the team financially in the future
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Ed is reacting
to the posts here that make it seem Young is a 50 OPS+ player who wears his glove on his left foot, his hat over his eyes and holds the bat upside down. We need to hate the contract, not the player. I think that’s where most people are, but reading posts here it sounds like Young is anything but the outstanding player and citizen he has been his entire time here.
I’ll be as happy as anyone else if they can get a good return for Young. But I’ll still miss such an outstanding example of blue collar work ethic and overachievement.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 9, 2008 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 6 recs
You just earned yourself a rec.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Dec 9, 2008 9:34 AM CST up reply actions
This is true
Although it would be a lot easier for me to do this if Young wasn’t, in every literal sense, the Derek Jeter of Texas. And I hate Jeter, so for me it can indeed be hard to remember the line between the image and the man. But it’s true, it is something I should put more effort into.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
great comparison
he is the face of the club
and yes, he gets a tough rap by many here (me included) but he is a very good man, a total team player and someone that anyone should emmulate…
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 9, 2008 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
Wrong
Jeter is a total douchebag (sorry dirk). Young has been nothing but a great guy here while Jeter has constantly been an egotistical ass. Perfect example being A-Rod. Young moved to SS to accommodate the player we got back in trading him. Jeter, despite being a far inferior SS, refused to move off of short for a clearly superior player.They are similar in being way overpaid for what they do, being SSs who are considered better defensively than they are, and being the face of their franchises, but they still aren’t the same person.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Ok I'd hold back a little...
Jeter may not be some saint like Young but he did what most players in his position would have done. He was still in his prime, had won 4 championships with him as one of the centerpieces, and the whole city was in love with him and still are. Why is he a total douche? I think human is a better word. I actually respect the guy. He seems somewhat down to earth despite all the publicity.
And he has a mean jump throw. ;)
by slimshadty12 on Dec 9, 2008 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
Very well said.
He was demonized as soon as he signed that contract, which is more an indication of Texas’ stupidity in over-estimating the market than in any kind of poor character traits on MY’s part. The giddiness with which some folks talked about MY’s poor performance at the plate this year and the vitriol with which his gold glove award was attacked has been a little shocking to me. Nobody on that team works harder and has achieved more than MY. I still remember the days when he was going to be a utility player because he would never hit. Having played competitive sports, I can tell you that having a guy like that on your team makes everyone else better. Having MY around last offseason certainly helped Kinsler develop.
If they get a good deal, I have no problem trading MY, though I’ll miss watching him play. And since Hicks is apparently committed to going cheap again, MY’s contract is obviously a problem which needs to be addressed.
vitriol with which his gold glove award was attacked
as it should be, a) the GG are a joke b) this is what should happen with jeter when he wins GGs but doesnt
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 9, 2008 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
Wow. You knew it sort of had to happen, at least on an exploratory level, but i am surprised it made it out in the press. This cannot be called a “story” yet, as this is just a throw in at the end of another article, but still, it is worth a mention.
Brown mentions the Blue Jays, Orioles, Cubs and Dodgers as teams who could have the need and the financial means to make it happen, but that is pure speculation on his part. The White Sox have been tied to Young for years, but they seem to have a full stable of young middle infielders now.
The Dodgers are trying to unload Jones or Pierre, while the Cubs are trying to unload Marquez, and you would have to think a bad contract would be coming back, but both those teams have far sexier offseason targets. The Dodgers, should they lose out on Furcal, are probably the only semi-realistic fit. With FAs Manny, Lowe, Penny, Maddox, Blake (could be staying), Furcal and others potentially leaving via free agency, they will have money and the need for a SS. Would a team potentially losing this much talent, veteran experience and player name recognition will be looking to replace those things this winter? Especially a team with the financial resources the Dodgers enjoy? The Dodgers had a slew of injuries hurt their middle infield this year, with Furcal and Garciaparra missing a lot of time. Young’s durability is taken for granted around here but probably not in LA. All of this leads me to believe that it is possible the Dodgers could place a higher value on Young than the Rangers next season and beyond. That he happens to be from southern California is not a huge factor, but is something to consider.
presuming he would be a fit for the dodgers
whose a good fit to get back or does it depend on the money?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 9, 2008 12:32 AM CST up reply actions
so hard to say
if we take a contract back, then it would increase the rest of the return, i would think. perhaps hu, kuo, and a young LA kid? i honestly have no idea.
hmm
id be ok/happy with that
hu can step in now defensively, i ****really*** like kuo and young LA kid for them idk who…
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 9, 2008 12:36 AM CST up reply actions
little help zy?
i mean we all know how much you like the latin kids ;) ;)
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 9, 2008 12:36 AM CST up reply actions
Kuo is really good
I personally don’t think we get good, young, cheap players like that in return unless we pay a fair amount of his contract.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 9, 2008 12:56 AM CST up reply actions
and i would be ok with that lol
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Why?
I would be fine to get rid of his contract because it would allow us to do other things. But right now he is our 3B of the future. Unless we can trade for a top 3B prospect we will just have to shell out the money we save on Young to a 3B. We have no 3B in our system right now. And if we pay a portion of his salary to the Dodgers then there really is no net savings. All it would do is get people who strictly look at payroll numbers and say “why aren’t we going after so and so when we got rid of Youngs contract”
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Honestly don't really see him moved
That contact really ties him in long term to one team. There’s younger, and cheaper, shortstops (or 2nd or 3rd basemen) out there on the market.
But if he did get traded, that would make Newsberg’s Book Party on Wednesday that much weirder…
In Smoak We Trust
Jamey might show up dressed all in black (mourning)
I would be sad too, honestly. I like MY and his unwavering dedication to this team.
-- Micah
Baseball Is My Boyfriend
"Football is like having a fling once a week. Baseball is a relationship." - oc
by The Best Micah on Dec 9, 2008 12:32 AM CST up reply actions
I would be sad too, honestly. I like MY and his unwavering dedication to this team.
i like him too, but at the same time – say freeing up his money in the future allows you to get sheets on a 3 yr deal. is 1 yr of an adam everett type guy + ~2 yrs of andrus + 3 years of sheets > michael young at his cost?
i say yes
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 9, 2008 12:35 AM CST up reply actions
I'm just very sentimental about my players
It’s an occupational hazard of being a fan, I know.
-- Micah
Baseball Is My Boyfriend
Random woman: "When are you getting married, Micah?"
Me: "Probably never. In fact, at this point, it's tempting to just adopt more cats."
by The Best Micah on Dec 9, 2008 12:46 AM CST up reply actions
me too
but im also sentimental about my team and its chances for success.
it’s an occupational hazard of being a fan.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Dec 9, 2008 1:06 AM CST up reply actions
Who plays 3B?
So you deduct Youngs 16 mil right. Well then you have to go pay a 3B FA since we have no 3B prospects in our system. Theres lets say 6 mil. How much of Youngs contract are you paying to the Dodgers? I would guess 4-6 mil per year. So that leaves you with 4-6 million of savings. Is that enough to get a guy like Sheets? No
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
a 3b
you have choices – you can go with someone like metcalf, you can try to pry someone like scutaro away or even attempt to resign vazquez back
and between davis/metcalf you have 2 choices there + depending on blalock (long shot, i know) you may have a third in-house candidate
if you go with metcalf (not a bad choice, if hes an above avg defensive 3b) that saves you 12 mil which is enough to get someone like sheets – especailly if coupled with the trade of someone like millwood/padilla and the trade of laird (which opens up some money) + if you do something with catt thats a fairly easy way to open up ~15+ million
in theory at least
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
No
If you trade Young I understand we have 3B for this year. We would have to go sign a SS since Andrus isn’t ready yet. Then next year instead of having an in house 3B we would have to go sign one. Like said unless you have a trade for a 3B prospect then you don’t automatically save 16 million. Its not like dumping Millwood or Padilla where you have viable in house replacements. That does truly free up that money. But with Young that money would have to be spent to replace him and thus you still wouldn’t be able to go sign a guy like Sheets. Now if you get rid of Millwood or Padilla and then trade Young then you probably open up enough money to sign Sheets. But dumping Young alone doesn’t get you Sheets.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
so whats the problem with signing an izturis or everett type (or potentially trading for hu) if you move young?
they are not gonna cost you 8 mil (i think everett signed for 1 mil+ recently)
i think the best option is to trade him to LAD and get hu in return (very good defensive player) – then either put metcalf/duran/davis/blalock? at 3b and go from there. this saves you money in the long term, you upgrade defensively at SS one way or another (with either someone like hu who you trade for or an everett-type player) – if you have metcalf at 3b that greatly upgrades the 3b defense from last year, and if you have davis he makes up for the defense with offense in theory
dumping young alone can free up the money – he earns 16 mil this year and i would think that trading him means you spend what, ~6 mil max for a stopgap for this year (and thats a lot) + go with in-house options at 3b (metcalf/duran/davis/blalock?)
now thats 10 mil free-ed up for this coming year (2009)
say you would have paid laird ~3 mil, thats 13 mil
say you trade catt + 2 (or 3) mil of his salary this year for a michael hernandez type player, thats another 2 mil off the books this year (plus theoretically another 2 mil you dont have to pay in buyout after this year) – thats 15/14 mil
figure something happens with blalock – another ~6 mil – thats up to 21/20 mil
so its an ~15 mil already free-ed up before trading millwood/padilla/blalock/etc – thats if you spend 6 mil on a SS and go with the in-house options at 3b
byrd is also 1.8 mil if he is moved
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 9, 2008 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
Young
Yes if you trade away all those players then you free up enough money to go after a guy like Sheets but trading Young by himself does not do it. You have to spend money on a SS for this year and then 3B starting next year. Trading away Laird genuinely freed up 3 million dollars because we have in house candidates ready to replace him. trading away Millwood or padilla would genuinely free up that money because we have in house replacements for them. We don’t have anyone for Young. Andrus can fill in at SS starting next year. But then we don’t have any legit 3B prospects. Trading Young will free up some money. But the people who think that dumping Young will all of a sudden allow us to go spend that 16 mil elsewhere on a pitcher aren’t seeing the whole picture.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Two words
German Duran
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Dec 9, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
Hes gonna be your 3B for the next 5 years?
Then this team is in serious trouble
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
hitting for pitching
If getting Sheets or some other FA pitcher means that Duran and Andrus are the left side of the infield, then so be it. The Rangers can get offense from other positions. I’m only on board with trading MY if that means a FA pitcher signing. If trading him doesn’t net one, the we’re better off keeping him.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Dec 9, 2008 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't know that we couldn't draft, sign other free agents...
Or anything of the type. Trading Young today doesn’t mean we need our 3B of the next half-decade today.
Maybe not today
we are expecting to go into 2009 with a stopgap 3B in Metcalf or Duran. Personally I don’t feel like either of those are guys who should be everyday players when this thing gets to be playoff caliber, which is what 2010 is supposed to be right? So while yes we could draft a 3B what do we do until that guy makes it, if he makes it at all? Sign a FA. Werll that costs money which cuts into those savings you thought you got when you got rid of Youngs contract since that 3B is taking MYs spot.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
i am more confident
in metcalf than Duran. Duran is going to really need to impress next year to get back on the prospect/good young player map.
choices
Metcalf and Duran compete for the 3B job and Arias goes up against Andrus for the SS job. Just my humble opinion.
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
if and only if
arias has the arm for SS again
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 9, 2008 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
hey
dont bust my bubble!
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 9, 2008 12:47 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I just don't see it
unless the Rangers are telling teams they’ll pick up half the contract.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
From a PR standpoint
this would be a disaster. From a baseball standpoint, I say bring it on if we can get a good return on him.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
Yeah,
“We are giving up a Gold Glove SS. He won the Gold Glove! He’s a .300 hitter! Hicks is cheap!”
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. 45 given up in the 1st quarter. Wow. But still we're better than Washington! Oh and, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-10 baby!
.300 career
Read the whole page.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/y/youngmi02.shtml
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Dec 9, 2008 2:36 AM CST up reply actions
the fans generally care
when you are talking about one of the few players they really know on the team as well as the guy they all believe is great.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I say bring it on
if we get a bag of balls as a return. For a team on a low budget, wasting that much on a non impact player hurts.
Nolan Ryan is the Greatest Pitcher ever, because Google says so.
"BTW I’m officially welching ab03. Yeah I planned too all along, but I figured I’d try to get off the hook with double or nothing first."- Sharky
I Lol'ed at the title -- too diplomatic
I’m hoping this develops into an entertaining subplot over the next few years: will he or won’t he be dumped?
It’s right up there with Justin Smoak vs. Chris Davis, Scorpion vs. Sub-Zero and space vs. time.
This is an exciting time in my life.
The LSB CPP's are in full bloom.
by inactive lsb user on Dec 9, 2008 1:12 AM CST reply actions
haha
coincidentally im writing a paper on time travel at this very moment
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Dec 9, 2008 1:14 AM CST up reply actions
A paper on time travel?
Let me know if you figure it out.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
Time travel
Pretty siple really – all you need is one of these:
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by LSJ on Dec 9, 2008 7:29 AM CST up reply actions
Oh hell no.
Smoak, Scorpion and time.
Sub-Zero, I’m afraid, was a total bitch.
Davis, Scorpion and time.
This is an exciting time in my life.
The LSB CPP's are in full bloom.
by inactive lsb user on Dec 9, 2008 1:25 AM CST up reply actions
Yes on all three.
Brett Gardner and the Dirkatron: Kindred spirits?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
Only in the dimension
where this series of posts makes any sense.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Well the only way this happens is if you take on a bad contract.
Would the Ranger fan be ok with a Juan Pierre for instance plus a couple prospects for Young?
"Obama is a Christian - He's always been a Christian...But.........what if he is[a Muslim]? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer is no, that's not America." Colin Powell on Obama/Muslim assertions.
oh god...
I do not want to hear about Juan Pierre on this board for the next couple years. I’ll happily take Face.
+100000000
In reference to how good the Steelers have been in their history: "No one is even close to them."- Steal Home
For a really nice guy
You somehow just got on my hit list. Enjoy Christmas.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Dec 9, 2008 2:37 AM CST up reply actions
damn Ed ...
you promised me it was going to be a quite Christmas.
Can I try the waking up to the dead horse bit first, like in the Godfather, it seemed to work pretty well with the last guy and finding a dead horse around here isn’t a problem.
If that doesn’t work …..well … Forgetaboutit!!!
"The Gerald Laird trade is a GREAT SUCCESS! Who'd we get for him again?"
Tom Hicks
the picture
Of a ranger playoff team in the near future w/o MY would be really hard for me to swallow, i love the guy, love his class, love his toughness, but i could get over it if we are in the playoffs. If MY somehow nets us a solid pitcher + 16 million salary space to sign another pitcher like Sheets, then i really have a hard time turning it down. From a purely baseball, statistical perspective, this type of deal makes a great deal of sense with Andrus waiting in the wings…. But that would still be a tough pill to swallow, not seeing #10 out there would almost make me sick. I wore #10 in HS even before he was the all-star lock he is now, he’s the eptimone of class and hard work.
I would be very torn about this kind of trade, but if im the GM of the Texas Rangers, this is something i almost have to explore, JD wouldnt be doing his job if he didnt look around
I agree that it would be weird going anywhere in the playoffs without MY.
And it would be nice for him to get an October win with the Rangers.
But, I think getting those wins will be easier without his contract and/or bat and/or glove at short. Emphasis on the contract part.
I agree
The dodgers seem like the best option if this actually ever even happens. The biggest key would be getting rid of that contract, that alone allows us to go out and sign one, maybe even two starters in the future. Get Sheets on a two year with an option for 15 mil. And then when his contract runs out we’d still have saved ourselves money on the MY contract which would allow us more room to get another guy if need be.
I’ve been contemplating what we could do if we somehow manage to trade Blalock to the Giants (id pray to all the baseball gods that we could steal Sanchez without adding to much), trade MY for some kind of arm (Dodgers? i really have no idea who we could get, MY seems like a guy who could have 000000 value or a whole lot of value, just depends on who you’re talking to), manage to get some GM drunk enough to take at least half of Cats salary, and then maybe, just maybe deal Padilla to the NL (Im a Millwood apologist i guess, and i think he could be a part of a conteding team as a 3 or 4)… That really might be asking way, way, way, way too much, but i think we’re all allowed to dream.
So now that would give us a savings around ~35 million for next season including the rebate on OMFT?? Thats a hell of alot of payroll space, at least gives us room to add Sheets + reliever, I dont know if there is another pitcher out there that id want, but who knows. Anyways, somehow in my mind, i see a make over of that magnitude being capable of making us a contender quicker than some might think b/c MY while a good hitting SS would not be a huge dent to our offense, Blalock is easily replaceable with the plethora of OFs and Catchers, and Padilla would hopefully be replaced by a Harrison or Hurley. Then you add two good SPs and some bullpen help and you still have one of the best offenses and baseball you at least have a team that challenges 88-90 wins next year? Is this even possible or am i just dreaming it all up somewhere in my Ranger optimism
It doesn't
This year (2009) you have Young slotted in at SS. Who plays that in 2009? Arias can’t throw, Elvis isn’t ready. Do you resign Vazquez? Theres probably 3 mil gone out of it. More likely you sign someone alot better than Ramon Vazquez and it eats up 5-7 mil or that. Does 10 million get you Ben Sheets? I don’t think so.
Then next year in 2010 when Young is slotted for 3B what do you do? We don’t have an in house replacement right now for the long term so I imagine you go sign a FA 3B. I don’t know exactly what it would cost but theres probably another 7-9 mil.
Dumping MY alone will only free up about 8-10 mil per year for at least the first 3 years of his contract. That doesn’t get you a top pitcher on the FA market. Thats not to mention if we have to pay a portion of his contract which would only eat into that savings. And taking a bad contract back in return doesn’t help the problem because we still have to pay that contract and also find a replacement for Young. We would actually probably be costing us more money at least right now and like I said only saving about 8 mil in a couple years.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
look above
also possibly FA in 2010 from Cot’s Baseball Contracts
Third Basemen
Adrian Beltre SEA
Hank Blalock TEX
Geoff Blum HOU
Craig Counsell MIL
Pedro Feliz * PHI
Chone Figgins LAA
Chipper Jones ATL
Mike Lamb * MIN
Melvin Mora * BAL
Chad Tracy ARZ
Ty Wiggington HOU
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 9, 2008 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
I have no idea
why you constantly act like MY is hard to replace. He was a good player last year, but nothing that you couldn’t replace with any combination of prospects or stopgaps. There are quite a few options in the SS market, with more to join them after arbitration.
Getting rid of the contract is a much more difficult proposition than finding a replacement
Im not saying hes hard to replace
But replacing him will cost you money. It will cost you to sign a SS for this year since Elvis isn’t ready yet and Arias can’t throw from SS. And it will cost you money down the road to fill in your gap at 3B because we have no 3B prospects on the horizon. Replacing a SS, or any position for that matter, is relatively easy. But I am merely trying to point out to those people who think that trading Young will all of a sudden free up 16 mil we can throw at Ben Sheets that it isn’t like that.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
It won't cost
nearly as much money as 12 million (if you’re being conservative) a year does. I don’t see the problem here.
No it won't
But 12 mil a year doesn’t get you Ben Sheets. It gets you Kevin Millwood or Gil Meche. Do you trade Micheal Young for that? Thats my whole point. Trading Young and his contract in and of itself does not clear up enough room to go sign a top of the rotation pitcher. It is a big step but it would require you to either clear other salary (like Laird or Millwood) or increase the payroll a little.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
The Yanks are rumored to be offering $13M per for 2 years to Sheets. $12M is not that far off and if you include the $7M the Rangers have to spend plus the ~$21M the Rangers will get off the books after next season, the Rangers can make a competitive offer for Sheets with a lot of deferred money.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
rumored
Until Sheets signs for 13 mil a year I highly doubt you can get him for that price.
The Rangers get more than 21 mil off the books after next season by the way. Millwood, Padilla, Cat, and Blalock combine for about 31 million.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I doubt it too, but this off season seems very light to me.
Maybe the economic struggles have actually convinced owners to keep it in their pants.
3/37 or whatever for KRod?
That’s way less than BJ Effing Ryan got.
I honestly don’t know right now if 3/45 might not get Sheets signed. Who knows. This off season is the haziest I think I’ve ever seen cause the market is kind of correcting itself in a way that it usually doesn’t.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
I just mentioned
alot more than just dumping MY there. I was talking about a full scale overhaul, and this whole we dont have a 3rd Basemen is way, way overblown. We either use an internal solution, or sign one post 2009 who hits for a better overall line than young, either way we’d save ourself money and get a better player.
The plan i just laid out involved trade like 4 other guys so its not like this is just trade MY and be done with everything and sit on our hands. I was talking about doing alot more than that…
Also, who’s to say Andrus isnt ready? Havent there been a ton of players who went the ML after a full year a double AA? Isnt there a long line of really young SS who played in the ML at the age of 21 or 20. Im pretty Sure Reyes, Ramirez, Renteria and so on were really young when they started their ML career. Im not saying Andrus would come in and immediately be an all star, but id take his plus D and .700 OPS, that wouldnt really hurt us very much in the grand scheme of things.
Young
Heres what I was referring to
The biggest key would be getting rid of that contract, that alone allows us to go out and sign one, maybe even two starters in the future. Get Sheets on a two year with an option for 15 mil. And then when his contract runs out we’d still have saved ourselves money on the MY contract which would allow us more room to get another guy if need be.
As I pointed out that alone does not allow us to go out and sign a top of rotation guy. It helps don’t get me wrong but it would take other moves like you mention to free up the room necessary. That was what i was referencing
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
yea
i dont really think we could win enough in 09 to get to the playoffs, but at least start by winning 85+ games and then building on to that with the youth we’d have coming in 09. In 2010 we could expect to see Feliz and Holland in our rotation along with Andrus as our everyday SS. I figure if we added Sheets in 09 and have him through 2011 and added another good young pitcher in one of these trades then we could have 4 guys who could be very good SP for us in 2010, not to mention the boatload of other options we’d have.
shhhhh they're "quietly shopping" him
don’t anyone tell Golden Face.
"The Gerald Laird trade is a GREAT SUCCESS! Who'd we get for him again?"
Tom Hicks
Laird, possibly Young . . .
what would all the haters do?
by Randy Richardson on Dec 9, 2008 7:05 AM CST reply actions
Heh
Well, there’s always Kevin Millwood… although he’s still more likely to be traded than Young, really.
MY’s not going anywhere, not right now. I think this is just the Rangers realizing their mistake and feeling the market out for future reference – if Young get’s traded at all my guess is it won’t be before Elvis Andrus ascends to the majors.
"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL
by LSJ on Dec 9, 2008 7:16 AM CST up reply actions
well, JD might need
to take on someone like Marquis to give you some fodder for ‘09 GTD’s.
by Randy Richardson on Dec 9, 2008 8:15 AM CST up reply actions
Okay, I'll play.
SS, Michael Young (5yrs/80mm)
OF, Marlon Byrd (1yr/ ~4-6mm)
OF, Andruw Jones (1yr/15mm + Maybe some of his deferred signing bonus? Not sure how that works.)
LHP, Scott Elbert (Min.)
RHP, James McDonald (Min.)
RHP, Corey Wade (Min.)
That’s probably a pretty stupid haul to expect, but we’d be filling two of their big needs (SS and another useful OF who can hit a little and play CF) while taking a ton of useless contract off their hands in Andruw Jones. That’s probably not worth three young pitchers like Elbert, McDonald and Wade (I love Wade… I’d put him in AAA and convert him back to starting), but it’s not wholly unreasonable in terms of overall value I don’t think.
Of course all trades I think of are probably slanted way towards the Rangers, so what the hell am I talking about ;)
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
well
the idea that we would take on a bad contract instead of subsidizing Young’s contract is probably pretty accurate. but there is now way they trade three ML ready pitchers as well. remember their pitching depth is taking a big hit with Lowe, Penny, and Maddux all leaving. i am pretty sure there is no way they deal McDonald. If we deal Byrd, there is a chance we ask for Repko back. And we will probably ask for Hu unless we are completely sold that his bat will never come around, otherwise, we have to find a short term SS AND a short term 3B.
Yah, I don't know why I did that.
I think I just wanted all three of those guys.
I originally had it as Jones’ contract + Elbert, Wade and Hu (the SS kid with a good glove and very little bat) but decided I wanted more pitching and took out Hu and added McDonald.
Jones, Elbert, Wade and Hu is probably a lot more realistic. Although even then it’s still not that realistic. Us fans are so damn bad at trying to make up realistic trades. We just suck at it.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
that is actually
probably a fairly realistic scenario. the problem is that wade is a bullpen guy whose major league debut was better than any single season he has had in the minors. perhaps something clicked for him? and elbert, because of the injuries and control problems, is probably a bullpen guy as well. jones is a huge wild card in this equation, but you’d like to think, going into another walk year, he would be somewhat motivated. hu is what he is, an all glove-no hit SS, a la Everett.
this deal only makes sense if the team can turn around and sign someone like Sheets. It would also help if this team had a long term plan at 3B.
We have some real crap on the 40 right now, so that's not a huge deal to me.
Mathis, Bannister, Eyre, Arias, Metcalf and Cat could all go without me shedding any of my salty man-tears.
The real meat of that deal would be to get rid of FFace’s contract in ’10 and beyond. Elbert and Wade are really interesting arms, bullpen or no. But this little made-up, super unrealistic deal of mine would be made with the purpose of putting us in prime position to add key pieces in ’10 and beyond.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
exactly
mathis/bannister/eyre/cat could all be gone and none of them worry me much
im not so sure about moving metcalf (only in-house option at 3b – unless you want to stick davis over there)
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Duran can play 3b.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
Yup. I wouldn't expect greatness from him at 3b. But passable defense and a .725-.775 OPS sounds about right if we threw him out there everyday.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 9, 2008 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
i always forget him
lol
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 9, 2008 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
i agree about byrd/repko – especailly since many/some think they will NT him as it is
and im ok w/ taking hu back (they have ivan dejesus who they may like more
i doubt we get mcdonald but we may get wade or elbert back
the question is, is byrd/FOTF/throw in (someone like melo probably) better than say hu/elbert/andruw jones
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
heh...from rotoworld
On a MY trade…
Good luck with that. Young’s five-year, $80 million extension is just now getting ready to kick in, so he’s owed $16 million per season through 2013. Given that no one is stepping up to meet Rafael Furcal’s asking price, it seems likely that the Rangers would have to take a contract back in order to deal Young. Something like Young to the Dodgers for either Juan Pierre or Andruw Jones and a couple of prospects would make some sense. Dec. 9 – 1:34 am et
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
ha! That is awesome.
Great armchair GM’s think alike, I suppose ;)
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
I'd prefer, though
if they just picked up a lot of the contract instead of getting dead weight in return.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
DeWitt
What about Blake DeWitt? Now that the Dodgers look like they are going to re-sign Blake. The Rangers take back Jones and DeWitt for MY and Bryd. The Rangers then offer Sheets a back loaded contract that uses the money coming off the books for Cat, Blalock and Jones for Sheets 2nd through whatever years of the contract.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
DeWitt would obviously be real nice.
I thought they had him penciled in at second, though?
Maybe not. Not a lot of range there, but he’s sure handed and has a great arm for a 2b. He didn’t embarrass himself playing 2b in the playoffs anyway.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
2B
Forgot they played him at second. Too bad though. He’s a lefty that hits lefties better than righties and would be great for the Rangers.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
dewitt
is probably their starting 2b next year
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Substitute Juan Pierre for Jones
I don’t see us getting away with dumping Laird’s 5/80 deal for a one year contract. Young’s contract would require us to take back a Pierre (3/28.5) or a Gary Matthews or a Todd Helton or possibly a Barry Zito.
It’s funny how rotoworld’s commentary of a Michael Young trade mirrors that of a Juan Pierre trade (from October 17):
The Los Angeles Times speculates that the Dodgers “might try to trade Juan Pierre.”
Good luck. Pierre is two seasons into a five-year, $44 million deal and hit .283/.327/.328 in 129 games as a 30-year-old. “If there’s a better fit he would hope the team would explore that,” agent Mark Pieper said.
One year of Jones is about 18mm (depending on how much of the deferred money we pick up) which is about what 2 years of Pierre would cost.
Honestly I think they’d rather have us take Jones. They hate him. He was earth-shatteringly putrid last year with the bat and didn’t get along well with Torre, iirc.
And I think people are overrating the horribleness of Young’s deal. If we took back Jones’ contract then FFace’s contract basically becomes a 5yr/60mm deal with quite a bit of deferred money, which ain’t half bad. He’s a below average defensive SS, but makes up up for it by being better than average for a SS with the bat. If he rebounds at all from this year’s parade of broken fingers then he’ll be well worth the 12mm a year to a team like the Dodgers.
Although it bears repeating once more that I in know way consider this deal anywhere near the realm of possibility. It ain’t happening. But making up fantasy trades and then arguing about ’em is fun.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 9, 2008 10:02 AM CST up reply actions
Plus...
Pierre says that he wants a trade to a team who will make him a starter. Pierre has limited no trade protection, and I would have to think that the Rangers are on the list of teams he would not want to go to. I bet Pierre would demand a starting role, which means he won’t get a lot of people wanting to trade for him.
by Excel Hearts Choi on Dec 9, 2008 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
my latest iteration of the deal:
Young for Jones, Hu, Kuo and 3B prospect Austin Gallagher.
Of course, i still think the ideal (and much, much, much more likely) action is simply signing Joe Crede as a one year stop gap and then shifting Young to 3B to accomodate Andrus. But it is fun to speculate.
Crede
Sounds like a pretty good gamble to land Crede on a one-year deal. The problem is, however, I think Hicks would want some payroll cleared before they did this (trade Blalock once Tex signs?). Crede made $5.1 million last season. I figure you would have to start somewhere around there with the guaranteed money, and then starting adding on the incentives.
by Excel Hearts Choi on Dec 9, 2008 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
thats a LOT
and a lot of ppl like gallagher quite a bit
i think it would be something like jones/hu/elbert or jones/hu/kuo or jones/hu/gallagher not 2 of kuo/elbert/gallagher
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 9, 2008 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
Gallagher
he’s young, but he’s kind of got the Elvis Andrus sans glove and speed thing going. He’s not really a power hitter, doesn’t have that good of plate discipline, is not going to stick at 3B, and isn’t overly fast. He’s a decent prospect, but I’m not sure if he sniffs the top 15
jones
so if you put him in CF and you pay the deferred money but get say hu and elbert in return or hu and someone else, is that worth doing?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 9, 2008 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
Hey don't be so sure of that...
Although it bears repeating once more that I in know way consider this deal anywhere near the realm of possibility. It ain’t happening. But making up fantasy trades and then arguing about ’em is fun.
Look at the economics (specifically ours). Look at our future makeup (Contention in hopefully ‘10-’11). Look at our immediate roster (Andrus/Arias knocking on the door).
Don’t be so sure that nothing is brewing here. There are a lot of factors that are pushing Young closer out the door. Also, don’t forget our owner. I’m not a Hicks basher whatsoever but let’s remember he’s a business man first.
by slimshadty12 on Dec 9, 2008 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
And in HurlerHurley fashion of responding to himself...
Let’s remember how tough it will be to move Young once we convert him to 3rd (teams will be less willing to try to move him back to short where he probably has more value to others)…I think JD is thinking hey, his value might be at its highest right now. Let’s just move him before we have to tell him to make a transition. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they thought of it as doing Young a favor (he got his money, now he could be immediately on a contender while he’s not pissing away his prime).
by slimshadty12 on Dec 9, 2008 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
i agree that
this kind of deal might be a brewing, but at the same time, i think it makes alot more sense for us to deal young after this year. If Young has another .300 year and we think Andrus is ready, dealing young b4 2010 seems like a very, very reasonable thing to do. While young is worth maybe 3/4 of the money playing SS, im not even sure he’s worth half his contract playing 3B. Add to that his no trade clause is only in effect this season and it becomes a easier for us to find a match.
I dont know if after next year there would even be a market for him though b/c he’d be pretty darn old still with an albatross of a contract.
No Trade
Young’s no-trade clause kicks after this season I think. This may be the only time to trade him without his consent.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Dec 9, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
Nevermind
see Ed’s comment below. Also does anyone know when Young get’s 10 and 5 rights?
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Dec 9, 2008 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
“The contract grants him full no-trade rights next season, then limited protection the following two seasons, by which time he’ll have 10-and-5 rights”
yahoo article
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-krodinlobby120808&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
So i guess he gets full no trade this year, and then 10-5 after that… Although i kind of forgot what the 10-and-5 Rights entails…
That is
a hell of a pitching bounty for a year of Byrd and four years of contract misery.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 9, 2008 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
Yah, take McDonald out of there like I said above.
Don’t know why I ever included him. That was just silly of me.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
Maybe some sort of Lowell/MY swap
Add a few pieces to either side…
Boston gets a SS, Texas gets a 3B.
We would probably have to take Lugo and his last reaming year on his contract to make up for MY long term deal.
is that all bad though?
lugo/lowell for my/???
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Boston makes some sense...
You’d think they’d love a guy like MY. And actually taking on Lugo and Lowell for that contract probably makes sense for both teams. Texas gets hit a little in the short term which is fine because we’re not immediately in need to add payroll right now and Boston can take the hit at any point.
I think Lugo is the type that would play better on our team anyway. Didn’t seem to adjust to the pressure that well.
by slimshadty12 on Dec 9, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
assuming the Red Sox pick up Teixeira..
as far as getting Lowell. Both players have 2 years left which works out well for us. And no crazy salaries really….2 years, 18.5 for lugo and I remember Lowell at 2 years, 24 million correct? That’s doable if you consider we’d cover our 3rd base hole, could trade away Blalock’s salary, Lugo could give Andrus another year at AAA, and we’re off the books financially in 2 years when we might be looking to amp up the team through FA.
by slimshadty12 on Dec 9, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
I doubt there's much to this
I would think JD isn’t doing his job if he’s not out there seeing if it’s possible — doesn’t mean it’s likely.
I wouldn’t be surprised if FOTF would welcome a trade as long as its to a contender.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
From MLBTR commenter
Why not trade Lowell 24 mil., Lugo 18 mil., and Clay Buchholz for Young 80 mil. and Teagarden?
Go Strangers.
Disagree
They could go Youk, Pedroia, Lowrie, Young across the diamond.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Dec 9, 2008 9:11 AM CST up reply actions
The only way the deal makes any sense at all (and let's face it, it doesn't make much sense)
is if they plan on using FFace as a SS.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
Yup.
But if they did sign Tex that would be the kind of deal that would seem to behoove both sides.
Of course there’s no way Boston wants any part of FFace’s contract and I still don’t think they’re dealing Buchh under any circumstances, but it’s nice to dream, ain’t it?
Gawd. Can you imagine Boston’s offense with FFace, Tex and Tea?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
Why trade for Young
when you have Lowrie? I would consider them very similar (and at just slightly different cost).
by Brett Perryman on Dec 9, 2008 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
Well
You get a better known quantity in Young, and they have the money (especially if you’re taking back Lugo, whom they’ve been hysterical to trade).
More than that, Boston wants to win now and that usually calls for more veterans and less youth.
These are admittedly soft reasons, and a Boston deal is probably not going to happen. But elsewhere in this thread it’s suggested Young’s value may never be higher (though it was highest around 2005-2006). He’s got a big contract but you know about what you’re getting, and he’ll probably help your gate draw too.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Dec 9, 2008 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
MY's value
I don’t think it is as low or he is as untradeable as people think he is
There are still teams out there who sign guys for stupid amounts of money. While stat fans will see in MY a guy who is about to go into (and perhaps already started) a slow, painful decline, other teams with more conventional analysis may see a guy who is still the best hitting SS in the AL, won a gold glove, and is a fan favorite.
There is a reason Jason Varitek didn’t take arbitration – he knows some moronic team will give him something like 3/30; even though that is something no one at LSB would give him. I guarantee you that there are multiple teams that would jump at the opportunity of getting Michael Young for 5 years, 80 million right now if he were a free agent. The only real question is whether any of them will also give JD something good enough to withstand the PR flack hed take.
i optimistically agree
I have a feeling more than a few teams out there could covet a guy like Young for the reasons i listed above: health, consistency, and intangibles. if the teams can make the money work, we could actually get a decent package back. still, i don’t see an ideal situation unless the dodgers miss out on furcal and panic.
As Agreen said earlier...
…it would be a PR disaster. And beyond that…look, I know his defense is lacking, and that gets routinely railed against here on LSB, but don’t forget that the dude is an above-average offensive shortstop. You don’t average around 200 hits a year without doing something right.
I understand why people could want to trade him (potential albatross contract, lacking defense), but let’s not allow his one glaring deficiency to overshadow that he does a whole lot of things very well.
Beyond that, you don’t think Kinsler would revolt if MY got shipped out?
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
why would kinsler get pissed?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Link
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=3535432
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
if he gets pissed because one of his friends gets traded
thats insane.
this is BASEBALL. young isnt getting traded cuz hes a shitty player, its totally a baseball/money move. and if he doesnt get that (or if he didnt get that) then thats a shame.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 9, 2008 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
Howard was supposedly in a funk
when Harris left.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. 45 given up in the 1st quarter. Wow. But still we're better than Washington! Oh and, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-10 baby!
thats being mentally weak
and suprise, suprise on howard.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
I think
You’re being a little silly here. “Mentally weak”? The game isn’t played on paper, so it doesn’t make any difference how the numbers work to a guy who’s playing. Cohesion, chemistry, and friendship are all rather important things, I would think.
True.
But how far do you go with things like that?
Does Ceej get a pass if he struggles out of the gate next year because his BFF-slash-Condomate got sold to Japan?
At some point you just have to tell guys to STFU and play no matter what. Losing a friend and mentor from your job sucks and it might impact you a little, but you can’t throw a hissy fit or let it effect your play too much. I think “mentally weak” does apply if a guy lets something like that effect his play over a long period of time.
Ian Kinsler better sack the fuck up and be a man if FFace gets dealt.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
yes its something to think about
but its not like subtracting michael young is the same as adding elijah dukes.
and if your reason to keep a player is his chemistry, when hes being paid as much as MY is, is foolish
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
PR
If they hold off on the trade and announced it at the same time they signed a FA pitcher, they can avoid the PR disaster. They can basically say to the public that by trading MY, they had more money to spend on pitching which guys like Galloway have been screaming about (and the sheep who listen to him as well).
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
+1
good point
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 9, 2008 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not sure how
the Rangers could hurt themselves much more PR-wise right now. Winning is the only thing that will turn their fans, not having a collection of fan favorites. They’ve thought that way for way too long. Whatever leads to winning, do that.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 9, 2008 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
above av3erage offensive SS
with a career what ops+?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
should be a reply to ghtd36
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
More MY rumors:
http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/30643-teams-asking-about-rangers-young
" He throws it where he wants it, his breaking ball kept getting better and better and of course God gave him that special arm. He's great." ~ Neftali Feliz on Derek Holland.
whoa
four teams, huh. i love how the rangers aren’t shopping young, but will listen. playin’ it cool, JD.
yeah, i hope something happens
JD has to listen and very well needs to consider trading him. Trading MY when it seems his stock is pretty high right now seems like a very ‘slam dunk’ decision, I think…
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
contract
Michael Young inf
5 years/$80M (2009-13)
5 years/$80M (2009-13)
signed extension with Texas 3/07, with Rangers exercising $5M 2008 club option as part of the deal
09-13:$16M annually (total of $15M deferred)
no-trade protection 2007-09, limited no-trade protection from 2010 to May, 2011 (submits list of 8 clubs to which he’d accept trade), before receiving 10-and-5 rights in May, 2011
award bonuses, including $25,000 for Gold Glove
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Dec 9, 2008 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
So really with the Defered money that Texas would still get stuck with if he is traded
his deal looks like 13M per for the team that gets him..
Not horrible, not great…
why would Texas get stuck with the deferred money?
Presumably that just means that each year he gets paid $13 million + $3 million at a later date. The Rangers didn’t eat that $15 million at the start of the contract.
Most teams get stuck with he deffered money portion of the contract
because of the haggle over the interest rate and the taxes. Think Mo Vaughn for Appier…
It is the same as eating 3M per season, which would be a reasonable request from any trading partner anyways.
Well if we have to eat the deffered money, they can eat Cat's contract ;)
Or maybe pay a little in cash now or in terms of paying the salary of a guy they’re sending over. There are always ways of evening it out.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
prognosis negative?
The Rangers are not “quietly shopping” Michael Young at the winter meeting, according to Rangers officials. That was a rumor put out on an internet site but Rangers officials shot it down on Tuesday morning.
Said one club official, “Negative. Tis the season… You get asked about all sorts of things at this time of year but that story is inaccurate.”
Said another club official, “We did not come here with any intention of shopping Michael Young.”
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
agree
if people want MY, we have to consider trading him now, before he gets his no-trade and his stock keeps falling…
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
Full no-trade
’07 – ’09, limited no-trade afterward.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Dec 9, 2008 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
Royals
I really doubt this is even the realm of possibilities, but if we somehow got Grienke in a deal involving young and then went out and signed Sheets…. who knows
Bah...
12:38pm: Young is not as pricey as we thought – Ken Rosenthal says he’s already been paid $20MM in bonus money from his new deal, leaving $60MM or so over five years (Heyman said something similar). But, Rosenthal says the Rangers are unlikely to seriously consider trading him.
that completely changes all of this
at 12M/yr, he actually has quite a bit of positive trade value to a team looking for a good, healthy, consistent veteran.
i think i will change my suggested trade above
to include Frankie Cat, now that we know about Young’s lower price:
Young and Cat for Jones, Hu, Kuo and 3B prospect Austin Gallagher.
I've never heard before
that much of the contract was in bonus money…
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
If the Mets are truly interested in MY
the conversation starts with Neise. Sickels midseason comments…
5) Jon Niese, LHP, Grade B
3.04 ERA with 112/44 K/BB in 124 innings for Double-A Binghamton. Having a breakthrough season, also gets grounders, I like him.
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/7/29/581798/top-20-new-york-mets-prosp
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
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