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Evan Grant on the Laird trade

Evan Grant has some notes up on the Gerald Laird trade, calling it "payroll motivated" and saying that Carlos Melo, not Guillermo Moscoso, is the real gem of this deal...

 

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So a deal that's been rumored for over a year

And is a necessity regardless of money…. And doesn’t even save that much money… Is payroll driven?

the preceding post was a great success.

by DSheppard on Dec 9, 2008 10:05 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah

that comment makes no sense to me

by JBImaknee on Dec 9, 2008 10:15 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i find it odd

that EG feels the need to act as an apologist for JD on this trade, acting like his hands were forced by payroll restrictions, when many knowledgeable baseball people have said this trade was actually quite fair and had glowing remarks about the arms it brought it.

by clark on Dec 9, 2008 10:18 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think that comes

From all the imbeciles he has to deal with on the DMN blog, myself.

"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL

by lonestarJon on Dec 9, 2008 10:23 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's like a roaving pack

of steal homes.

Gerald Laird: One Man, 5 Scoops.

by Maximilian on Dec 9, 2008 12:01 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I still don't see how...

even without a glut of other catching options, say – we only have TT waiting, we still get rid of a guy that can’t start every game behind the plate with above average results…

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Dec 9, 2008 3:26 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

not when you look at the entire package

can he throw runners out? check. can he improve the pitchers he works with by “calling a good game?” supposedly not. can he field his position very well? he’s passable. can he hit consistently? no. can he get on base at a respectable clip? no. can he produce runs? ehh. can he be a club’s full-time catcher? this is the big one for me – no. he’s a very good platoon catcher.

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Dec 9, 2008 5:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

can he throw runners out? check. can he improve the pitchers he works with by "calling a good game?" yes, the blame is on the crappy pitching not him. can he field his position very well? he’s passable. can he hit consistently? yes, 276 for a catcher is hitting consistently. can he get on base at a respectable clip? yes,his OBP is 323. can he produce runs? ehh. can he be a club’s full-time catcher? this is the big one for me – yes. he can hit, field, and call decent games

by Stevoo on Dec 9, 2008 5:48 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

agree to disagree

did you use his career batting average, or just last year? because you know…he was pretty much a platoon last year anyways…just so you realize, in more of an everyday starting catcher role last year, he hit .225 and had an appalling .276 OBP

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Dec 9, 2008 5:55 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Do not argue with the

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Dec 9, 2008 6:12 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hahahaha

This is an exciting time in my life.

The LSB CPP's are in full bloom.

by Chase Irwin on Dec 9, 2008 7:08 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And the Rangers can proceed forward with Taylor Teagarden and Jarrod Saltalamacchia in their 2009 plans. If Boston decides to start talking about Clay Buchholz or Justin Masterson or Michael Bowden later this winter, hey, that’s great news for Texas.

hmm. i read that to mean that so far, when discussing salty and teagarden with boston, they haven’t even included those guys in an offer. no wonder JD decided to move on and just trade Laird. I have been pretty steadfast in my confidence that Salty could return at least a package like Bowden and Bard, but it sounds like Boston is probably offering just Bard or Bard and a throw in, or so BS like that. Perhaps i am reading too much into it, but if the Rangers will “be happy” if Boston includes one of those guys, that doesn’t bode well.

by clark on Dec 9, 2008 10:07 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

only Bard

turn that down flat. good luck Boston, sign Varitek back and enjoy the fruits of a barren tree.

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Dec 9, 2008 10:14 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Payroll

I have a hard time believing the Rangers need to shed payroll unless they are hoping to sign a guy like Sheets. I can’t imagine that a major league franchise in Texas would really struggle to meet a $68 million dollar payroll. This sort of stuff freaks me out.

Fire Ron Washington

by pblack on Dec 9, 2008 10:23 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think myself

All the payroll shedding going on right now might very well be in preparation for a run at Sheets, myself. I think they’re trimming it down as much as possible, hoping that if they find someone willing to bite on Millwood or Padilla they’ll have the funds to go after Sheets if he’s still available. Or heck, maybe they already have a deal in place for Millwood or Padz, who knows.

"Somewhere out there, between 14-32 BBWAA NL MVP voters are trying to get cheaper winter heating by drilling a hole in the microwave." - Jeff at LoL

by lonestarJon on Dec 9, 2008 10:26 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When will it be known

whether Sheets declines arbitration or not?

This is an exciting time in my life.

The LSB CPP's are in full bloom.

by Chase Irwin on Dec 9, 2008 11:11 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Would you offer market value?

This is an exciting time in my life.

The LSB CPP's are in full bloom.

by Chase Irwin on Dec 9, 2008 11:21 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

has that been established?

what is market value? i read some report that the Yankees were going to offer 2 years and 30M, but that doesn’t appear to have happened.

Looking at what K-Rod was originally asking for and what he is apparently close to signing for should make people rethink their contract estimates. I think a bid of 2/30 could actually get him.

by clark on Dec 9, 2008 11:24 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think there's a fat chance in hell

that he signs for 2/30.

This is an exciting time in my life.

The LSB CPP's are in full bloom.

by Chase Irwin on Dec 9, 2008 7:09 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

3 years at $14 mil average per year

with a 4th year team option based on “the Millwood clause?”

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Dec 9, 2008 3:54 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

4 / $72

This is an exciting time in my life.

The LSB CPP's are in full bloom.

by Chase Irwin on Dec 9, 2008 7:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wow

I think the market has firmly established itself well below this.

by Andy Seiler on Dec 9, 2008 7:09 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That is what I think he is worth

and what I would offer. I’m not sure if that’s in the neighborhood of what clubs are offering. What would lead you to believe that Sheets can’t earn $18M when LAIE’s can earn $10M+?

This is an exciting time in my life.

The LSB CPP's are in full bloom.

by Chase Irwin on Dec 9, 2008 9:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Years

I’m thinking more about the years than anything. He’s not getting a four year deal.

by Andy Seiler on Dec 9, 2008 9:26 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

YEP + 1

"The Gerald Laird trade is a GREAT SUCCESS! Who'd we get for him again?"

Tom Hicks

by LAMuscleFag on Dec 9, 2008 11:36 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Grant may well be right about every one of those points

…but that sounded like a lot of conjecture on his part, a lot of conclusions he’s drawing, not getting direct answers from the Rangers. And you know how I feel about beat writers and conjecture about personnel decisions…

by Brett Perryman on Dec 9, 2008 10:47 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

but... but... but...

that’s the great EG…

talk down about him around here, and you better be ready for the masses to go stupid… he uses OBP, so he’s an F’n genius.

I thought you all knew.

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Dec 9, 2008 11:11 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, I do like Evan

I think he does a good job. But reporters are reporters, not pseudo GMs (like we are, hah).

by Brett Perryman on Dec 9, 2008 11:15 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

heh

he does a fantastic job, as long as Adam’s keeps spitting out his adverts on LSB for him.

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Dec 9, 2008 11:27 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

EG is more connected than I

But, honestly, I just cant see that this was all about payroll. I would think it was to thin out the heard at catcher and make room for Salty and TT. Dumping payroll wpuld be a distant third, IMNSHO

by BEW on Dec 9, 2008 10:56 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not sure this is the case

The scouting report I read didn’t mention overpowering stuff

Striking out that many guys in that few innings is pretty dominant.

Formerly known as OKRangerFan

by B_Black on Dec 9, 2008 11:13 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah, i am struggling with that

i have heard it reported that he doesn’t have overpowering stuff, but i have also heard he has a solid fast ball with late action that he can locate all across the plate, as well as a decent change up and a developing (read: lackluster) breaking ball. All of that screams bullpen down the road, but it doesn’t seem that he has underwhelming stuff.

by clark on Dec 9, 2008 11:17 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ok you have 4 catchers on your 25 man

why would any1 within the Organization say that the move was due to payroll reasons?

we have 4 catchers on our roster!!! Thats why we traded the oldest most expensive one!!! but im sure it was “payroll motivated”

EG is and has been for a long time, a TOOL.

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Dec 9, 2008 11:14 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think it's pretty obvious

that the trade was done for both payroll and roster reasons.

2 reasons to trade Laird:

1. Logjam of young catchers ready to contribute now.

2. He’s the most expensive of the 4, and the oldest.

I don’t see how anyone could think it’s a bad thing that payroll played into it.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 9, 2008 11:30 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think it is...

just the feeling that economy is playing a major impact in the roster decision making process for our favorite team. Over the past several decade or so, contracts have ballooned substantially which has lead us to re-consider our definitions of “large contract” as well as its relationship to our payroll.

 In recent years, a $2-5MM contract never appeared to have much of an impact on the decision making process with regards to complete team payroll. Those contracts, at least from how I viewed it, were 98% on the players abilities and how they could fit in to the teams goals for the next year versus 2% on how it would relate to the bottom line in terms of overall team payroll. Now this is a bit of an exaggeration but I feel it is helping me make my point.

However, a $10-15MM contract would bring conversation as to whether the team had wiggle room to sign the player based on overall team payroll. To be more specific, if felt like signing a Mark Loretta would be almost entirely about their relationship to the team dynamic because the cost was substantially lower than a Nomar Garciaparra circa 1999. However, signing a Nomar felt like not only did he fit the teams goals, but could the team manage the significant increase in payroll.

To summarize, I feel it is hard for the typical fan to begin recognizing that even smaller contracts might have this size of an impact on payroll decisions. It is hard to swallow that Gerald Laird’s $2MM is really all that significant in the grand scheme of things. Who knows what that might mean when thinking about larger contracts.

Of course, that is just my two wheat pennies.

"You taste like a burger. I don't like you anymore."

by Prognosis Negative on Dec 9, 2008 11:52 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess what I meant was

They obviously wanted to trade a catcher — why not trade the one that costs the most? I guess you can call that a “salary dump,” but I look at it more as a smart business decision.

If you don’t trade Laird, you’re looking at a time share between at least two of the catchers. If you do trade Laird, you’re still looking at a time share between at least two of the catchers. What sense does it make to pay the most expensive one when you have to 3 cheaper, ready to go options already available?

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 9, 2008 12:43 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Completely agree

I completely agree with that sentiment. I was speaking more to people’s negative reactions to the term “salary dump” or “tightening of payroll.” I’m just trying to make sense of all that. People don’t react negatively when the team talks about clearing payroll for Sheets. They do however when they say trimming for 2009 by cutting someone who costs $2MM (and future arbitration salary increases) regardless of the reasoning.

I’m a huge TT fan. I say aloha to Laird and aloha to TT. I’m calling for TT to be the next FOTF.

"You taste like a burger. I don't like you anymore."

by Prognosis Negative on Dec 9, 2008 1:25 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well, here you go

from TR

The Rangers are meeting with Chad Cordero here at the Winter Meetings. Cordero is coming off shoulder surgery after saving 113 games for the Nationals in 2005-07. He could be a high-impact, low-risk signing much in the same way as Eric Gagne worked for the Rangers in 2007.

by Longhorn on Dec 9, 2008 11:28 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i like it

but you have to think more than a few teams will be in on him.

by clark on Dec 9, 2008 11:30 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

awesome

I laughed out loud

"You taste like a burger. I don't like you anymore."

by Prognosis Negative on Dec 9, 2008 11:43 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hahahahaha REC

"The Gerald Laird trade is a GREAT SUCCESS! Who'd we get for him again?"

Tom Hicks

by LAMuscleFag on Dec 9, 2008 1:38 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

how is cordero the same as gagne?

i don’t think those two comps are apt at all

Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade

by ab03 on Dec 9, 2008 11:43 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just on the very surface

Successful closers (to widely varying degrees of course) who were coming back from serious injuries

I have no problem with a Cordero signing, it’s just a low impact deal, so it’s not a huge thing either way.

by Brett Perryman on Dec 9, 2008 11:58 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"Salary dump"

I’ve always wondered if there is an ulterior motive why the organization is characterizing it this way (I think there may be an ulterior motive to everything that’s leaked by the team). “Salary dump” isn’t going to put butts in the seats, so here’s my theory:

Dump Laird’s salary, maybe Blalock’s. Make a half-assed run at a FA pitcher. When that is unsuccessful you can go back to the fans and say, “See? We tried to get a FA pitcher to bolster the team. We even went through the effort of dumping salaries to make sure we could make a good offer. It didn’t work. Sorry fans, but we tried. And now we’re fielding a 60 MM team.”

Other option is this is less offensive to Laird than saying “Dude – you were in the way.”

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Dec 9, 2008 11:44 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

except

what do we care about hurting laird’s feelings?

Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade

by ab03 on Dec 9, 2008 11:47 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Right

So why not say that? Tell the fans you were clearing the way for the up-and-comers. That would be more appealing to fans (at least me). So why “salary dump”? Gotta be a reason.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Dec 9, 2008 12:08 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

very true.

selling that making room for the up and comers is a good pitch. better than “salary dump” on a marketing level. of course if we sell half the up and comer catchers before the season starts for buchh and another target then how do you market the Laird as a dump for the up and comers?

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Dec 9, 2008 1:09 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm with you

Any time I hear EG or TR explaining the motivations for JD and Nolan, I figure that they are simply communicating what JD and Nolan want us to hear. It is ALWAYS posturing to some extent.

The mystery is what is the motive? I understand your point with the half-hearted try to get a pitcher, but that sounds a little forced. The Rangers were going to trade Laird for something regardless (and if they couldn’t get that, they could just have non-tendered him if trying to cut salary). But why characterize it as a “salary dump” as opposed to a strategic conversion of catching surplus to pitching? That is a far more PR friendly message.

I think it suggests one of two things:

1> The Rangers are negotiating with a guy like Sheets or Wood, and they feel like characterizing their payroll as stretched thin will help negotiations. Maybe, at the least, it will keep teams from using the Rangers as just a negotiating tool for other clubs.

2> It is their subtle way of saying to the league “we’re interested in trading Michael Young, but we can’t advertise it for obvious PR reasons”. Or a way of setting up fandom for a "If we want to get Ben Sheets, we need to salary dump FOTF.

by JBImaknee on Dec 9, 2008 11:52 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This.

Leverage in FA negotiations is the only incentive I could imagine.

This is an exciting time in my life.

The LSB CPP's are in full bloom.

by Chase Irwin on Dec 9, 2008 7:16 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no 'quiet shopping' going on...

per TR

The Rangers are not “quietly shopping” Michael Young at the winter meeting, according to Rangers officials. That was a rumor put out on an internet site but Rangers officials shot it down on Tuesday morning.

Said one club official, “Negative. Tis the season… You get asked about all sorts of things at this time of year but that story is inaccurate.”

Said another club official, “We did not come here with any intention of shopping Michael Young.”

by Longhorn on Dec 9, 2008 12:08 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i think heyman's characterization is probably more accurate

teams are asking, the rangers aren’t immediately hanging up the phone.

Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade

by ab03 on Dec 9, 2008 12:17 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rosenthal says Young has a no-trade clause

Maybe it’s just me but I can’t see him waiving it unless he’s moneywhipped.

by Taylor on Dec 9, 2008 12:53 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

keep in mind

he is from southern California, and he may want to play for a contender.

by clark on Dec 9, 2008 12:55 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My fear is that he could pull a Juando

He’ll say he wants to win but in reality wants a cushy gig.

by Taylor on Dec 9, 2008 1:04 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

EG with interesting follow-up on Laird and LA
I think that if the Rangers had been willing to take back money, they could have had a major leaguer. Maybe not somebody who is coming off a great year, but perhaps somebody like Nate Robertson (a ground ball lefty who has had success in Texas).

Correction: The Rangers did not offer Inoa the kind of money you mention. It was reported they did, but my information was that the club only proposed a “What if…” scenario based on a bid double the size of Oakland’s. I don’t think they ever got to $5 or $6 million for him. The Rangers have never paid more than $1 million for a Latin American teen.

http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/12/looking-at-the-laird-deal.html#comments

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Dec 9, 2008 1:19 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nate Robertson?

I’ll take prospects with upside as opposed to the replacement-level MLB garbage.

Kason Gabbard is already clogging up a roster spot.

This is an exciting time in my life.

The LSB CPP's are in full bloom.

by Chase Irwin on Dec 9, 2008 7:25 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

On Moscoso/Melo

I don’t really think that this is one of those cases of _ is the real prize in the deal. There is an upper level guy and a high upside extreme low level guy, but I don’t think that this is like the Gagne deal where two of the players were MLB ready but not that highly regarded and the lower level guy was seen as a future stud. Neither of these guys is a huge prospect, but they have comparable promise in different ways. They’re just two interesting arms to add, no big secret to unlock as the “real” target.

by Brett Perryman on Dec 9, 2008 3:56 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pressure on Boston?

Although the trade may have been done on it’s own merits, one wonders if pulling the trigger on Laird as the Winter Meetings began doesn’t put additional pressure on Boston. Although they may have not been as excited about Laird as they are about Teagarden and Saltamachia, it removes an option.

Boston has been playing it cool so far, but they NEED a catcher.

Just a thought…

by Austin Ranger on Dec 9, 2008 5:49 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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