TR Sullivan: Rangers seriously interested in Sheets?
by Stephen Rushin on Dec 9, 2008 6:48 PM CST
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PrintPretty interesting read. It certainly seems as if the Rangers have a sincere interest in Sheets. The Rangers would probably have to trade some payroll, but Ryan certainly sounded receptive to the idea of moving some players via trade if it facilitates signing Sheets.
Ryan also made it sound as if the Rangers were receptive to trading virtually any player. This may lend some credence to the notion that the Rangers were quietly shopping Young.
I know Sheets has been discussed in pretty great detail on this blog, but after reading this article, I honestly feel as if the Rangers may make a significant effort to sign Sheets.
Obviously health is an issue, but I would be pretty ecstatic to add a pitcher with who has averaged a 133 tRA+ over the last five years.
EDIT:
On another note, Steve Phillips just posted a blog entry on ESPN saying that Wood was going to sign with either Texas or Cleveland. (2 years, 12-14 million) If we got Wood for 2 years 14 million, I would be really happy.
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Exploding High Five!
Blow me up, Dawg!
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Dec 9, 2008 6:52 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Rangers
Receptive to trading does not mean actively looking to trade. Like has been reported I am sure teams have asked about Young and the Rangers have listened. I have a hard time believing JD is on the phone calling up teams however asking if they are interested in MY. I just don’t see that happening.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I like this quote:
Ryan said the Rangers came away from Monday’s meeting with the feeling that Sheets was truly interested in playing in Texas.
Well, Sheets isn't a surfer boy from California
why anyone actually thought that Zito had any interest in playing in Texas boggles my mind. Sheets actually has some ties to the area – I can believe it a little more.
torii hunter?
people who actually live in texas say they want to play in texas and then they go sign somewhere else.
i remember the first time this happened that i can remember – ellis burks. Wasn’t a big FA or anything but I just couldn’t’ understand why someone who was living in TX didn’t want to play for TX over Cle of all places.
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
but i mean.. they gave him 90 million dollars. interested in texas at equal price or not, the angels floored him and that was that.
the preceding post was a great success.
yeah
but still. it didn’t ever sound like he wanted to come here.
same thing could be said about vernon wells (who I guess might have known he was going to suck)
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
There's no way V-Wel was gonna turn down that offer from Toronto, though.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
Agree
He’s going to make over $20MM including signing bonus for the last 5 years of the contract, has a full no-trade clause, and he can opt out after 2011. No way he turns that down.
'V-Wel'
No.
meet me at the mawwl... it's goin dowwn...
by oc on Dec 9, 2008 8:04 PM CST up reply actions
heh.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 10, 2008 8:30 AM CST up reply actions
I hope Sheets
doesn’t have any children in any Texas schools.
Look what happened with Torii Hunter, his kids told him that their friends would make fun of them if he signed with the Rangers.
It turned out to be a blessing but still….
"The Gerald Laird trade is a GREAT SUCCESS! Who'd we get for him again?"
Tom Hicks
Well
I have always felt (I said this last year around this time) that Sheets might be genuinely be interested in coming to Texas if given a fair deal.
Sheets
One other thing to keep in mind: the Rangers just signed the guy that’s been Sheets’ pitching coach the past few seasons. If he and Maddux have a good relationship, that might be another reason (besides his having a home here) that Sheets is willing to consider the Rangers.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
Wash was a favorite of Zito too, but
he didn’t sign. Personally, I never wanted Zito. I’ve always liked Sheets. Aside from his one stint on the DL he’ll spend each year, He is one of the best pitchers in baseball.
I hope Maddux does have some pull with him.
Wait 'til the year after next
please explain to me whats so great about sheets past that makes him a must have.
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
over the past 5 years
avgs
3.35 ERA
1.11 WHIP
168 IP
157 SO
5/1 – K/BB ration
His only question is injuries. He’s an ACE. A TRUE Ace. Not what a millwood ace. He has great control and doesn’t walk very many for a strikeout pitcher. He and Santana are the best among big SO guys with their control. He is still injured alot and that would worry me, but what pitcher have we have the wasn’t injured. I would take his 168 IP vs Millwoods any day of the week
Wait 'til the year after next
Is that a legit question?
You can’t be questioning his stats because he truly has put up some special numbers over the years. Something that translates even to a park like ours (for example: an elite k/bb ratio which is crucial for our park).
I’m assuming you mean injuries? Well for what the market is setting up for after K-Rod might “only” be getting 37 million, it is conceivable that he might just well be a bargain even for a guy who’s lucky to pitch 180 innings in a given season.
For 3-4 years, 50-60 million I’d gladly take 150 innings a year of 3.0-3.5 era baseball. If he falls to that amount, I think you got to dump guys like Millwood, Padilla, Blalock….whoever. Make that happen.
But, still see it as a slim chance.
by slimshadty12 on Dec 9, 2008 10:25 PM CST up reply actions
A couple of things
Wash never was Zito’s pitching coach. If we had Rick Peterson, it might be different.
And SF offered about a billion dollars more than every other team. Outside of some forbidden love stuff between Wash and Zito, there was no way he liked Wash enough to turn down the Giants offer.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
i don't think any of those things really matter
hunter was a wash guy too.
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
But
Sheets is from Louisiana, has a house in Dallas area, is building a house in Monroe La, his family is all in Louisiana and he played college ball in Louisiana. Playing in Texas would be a draw for him, so I assume he is truly interedted in playing there.
The Texas Rangers rounded the bases at a dizzying pace
He probably is interested
but the bottom line will always be the money. All that means is that he isn’t likely to want Texas to have to pay 20 million more than the rest of the interested teams for him to accept an offer here.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
re: "All that means is that he isn’t likely to want Texas to have to pay 20 million more than the rest of the interested teams for him to accept an offer here."
Yup. It’s not like he’s gonna take a lesser offer to come here or anything, but the fact that there’s a big time “ace”-quality pitcher on the FA market who might actually choose us if the offers are similar is still pretty exciting, no?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 10, 2008 8:32 AM CST up reply actions
exciting is one way to put it
pretty fucking awesome is how I’d put it.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
No income tax here should be bigger help to Texas.
Having no state income tax or professional athlete tax like some other states have… shouldn’t that be a bigger draw for the Rangers?
Simply matching another offer is, in effect, beating a New York offer or Illinois offer isn’t it?
Go Cubbies and Go Rangers!
Most athletes either don't understand that or don't care
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
The money isn't a big deal
I think you are talking about such a small percentage of the contract that it really shouldn’t matter.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Sheets
We can talk about it all we want, but it isn’t going to happen. The Yankees are going to lose out on Sabathia and they are going to sign him before we can clear the payroll.
Fire Ron Washington
sign him then
clear the payroll. even if you trade guys midway through the season, its’ fine. plus next year. we’ll be off teh hook for , blalock, little cat, millwood, and padilla. we have the money to spend.
Wait 'til the year after next
Related
Catchers market is thinning out. Montero and Snyder have been pulled by Arizona out of trade talks.
It honestly seems that this year
The Rangers are trying to play hard ball this year with free agents, instead of the other way around.
In Smoak We Trust
sign him now
before other pitchers sign and it becomes a dogfight for sheets. it would be nearly impossible to get him.
but alas i doubt the rangers sign him.
Wait 'til the year after next
We have to be considered longshots, but I think I’ve said this before: I like the way Ryan is handling this. That applies some to the way he’s going about it but mostly to the fact that they’re pursuing him period. If the dynamic were only Hicks and Daniels, my suspicion is that Hicks would just put the kybosh on it.
I like what Daniels has done, but if Ryan is able ...
to get Hicks to spend on a FA pitcher this year, I would have a new respect for him. Hicks seemed bullish to the idea that he would ever sign a FA ace to multiple years.
Wait 'til the year after next
i gotta say
in terms of personnel decisions, it seems as though ryan has been a good influence on the club.
of course, this comment is coming at a time when the club hasn’t really signed or traded anybody of importance. but i agree that at the very least, it might seem like ryan is encouraging hicks to open up the wallet for good players.
we’ll see what impact it actually has.
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
Omigod, Z!
I totally agree with you…and I’ve said this before (to a chorus of Boo’s):
Ryan will get us some pitchers that JD couldn’t have…and what’s wrong with that?
Who cares who gets the credit?
Smile when you call me Beat Weed!
Yep
same goes for the blame if it doesn’t work out right?
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 10, 2008 7:35 AM CST up reply actions
As I have always said
Nolan does far more to help JD in dealing with Hicks than to hurt JD. Hicks may have budget goals, and it is unlikely that JD could move them, and even if he could it is unlikely that he’d want to put his job on the line like that (JD asking Hicks to sign a guy who busts could easily get him fired). Whereas Nolan has the strength to ask Hicks to raise payroll for special circumstances, and his job is likely secure enough that such a signing could go bust without costing his head.
If the offer is accurate...
did you see on MLB Trade Rumors that the Yankees may have offered four years and $66 million to Derek Lowe? Are you kidding me!!! Over $16 million a year. You can have him for that price!
And by the way… it looks like the Indians are getting Wood at 2/$20… NOT Phillips’ ridiculous 2/$14. I would still have done it and added a third year option for $12 million.
Go Cubbies and Go Rangers!
Derek Lowe is very good.
That’s not a bargain or anything, but it’s chump change to the Yanks and they need reliable starters.
Don’t see anything wrong with it from where I’m sitting.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 10, 2008 5:20 PM CST up reply actions
The money seems manageable to me.
Trade one of millwood/padilla instantly clears the majority of the money needed for him this year, and the other could be let go after 09 if the finances are still bad.
Michael Young is really the only big payroll guy who is secured long term (sans trade).. affording sheets over a 2-3 year period even at a very similar payroll seems feasible.
And we really need ~3 rotation spots for the young guys anyway, if we get sheets we don’t really need both of millwood/padilla regardless of money.
The sheets meeting has got me running all these scenarios now.. lose one of millwood/padilla, get sheets, do one of the catcher trades (sweeten it with a prospect if you have to)….. a competitive 09 team with huge ’10 potential forms before my eyes.
the preceding post was a great success.
i don't like the sheets deal
being dependent on a trade of padilla, millwood. It’s difficult enough to sign a free agent without having other things depend on it
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
It seems like the best way to approach this
is to trade Padilla, regardless of whether you are able to sign Sheets. Padilla’s value is probably as high as it will get, after he posted respectable numbers in 2008. His tRA, FIP, etc seem to indicate that he was a little bit lucky and might be a candidate for regression. The Rangers have a lot of young pitching depth to fill the rotation spot left in his absence should Sheets sign elsewhere and they still might trade Ramirez or Salty for a SP.
That frees most of the payroll and is probably a desirable move (in my opinion) regardless of whether we sign Sheets or not.
by Stephen Rushin on Dec 9, 2008 7:51 PM CST up reply actions
i think you sign him knowing that you'll trade one of
millwood / padilla for even a box of cigars in order to clear payroll and room for some of the young guys. Also, after this year, padilla millwood are no longer under contract so you’re only looking at one year with more salary even if you can’t trade on of the two M/P for a decent pack of cigars.
Wait 'til the year after next
"a competitive 09 team with huge ’10 potential forms before my eyes"
With Sheets on board, it sure would be easier to dream, huh?
Don't believe the hype about sloppy seconds. They ain't bad.
I think...
It would be a good idea to hang onto Millwood and Padilla and sign Sheets, and trade for Buchholtz (or a similar young pitcher with huge upside). We have a real nice rotation of Sheets-Buchholtz-Millwood-Padilla-Harrison at least compared to last year, and we can make the $$ work by trading Blalock or Young. If we just traded Blalock I think our payroll would probably be about $6 million higher than was wanted, but that wouldn’t be a huge deal because as someone said Millwood and Padilla would come off the books after 2009. This also gives us the chance to trade Padilla or Millwood at the trade deadline if we aren’t in competition during 2009. I would be ok trading Millwood or Padilla, but I would prefer to keep them because it isn’t like we are going to get great value for them, where as if they put up great numbers they could help us compete (they can definitely be solid 3-4 guys just not such great 1-2 guys) and like I said they could get a much better return at the deadline after a solid start than they could now. Plus with Sheets/Millwood/Padilla its doubtful you’re going to get 200 innings from any of them, so I would prefer the depth and just need 1 or 2 young guys to fill in during injury. Then after 2009 Feliz and Holland join the rotation while Millwood and Padilla say goodbye. Plug in a Smoak a Borbon and an Andrus and were looking golden.
not bad, but i'd like to see what
Hurley has to offer this year, and keeping all those pitchers would block him. i understand there would be injuries, but I think you need to give him consistent time instead of playing with the guy. Sending up, then down, then up back down up etc…
Plus i expect Holland and Feliz to be in the rotation before the season is over. Possibly September callups.
Wait 'til the year after next
Why not keep them all
I don’t mind keeping Millwood and Padilla, even if we sign Sheets.
I happen to believe in Padilla’s career year history and can only hope Millwood does the same.
If we are out of the race in July you dump them for whatever you can and bring up Holland and Feliz in August. If we are in the race… let the fun begin. Then you let Millwood and Padilla go and free up all that salary for 2010.
Go Cubbies and Go Rangers!
Thats certainly a thought
But it would hunder the development of young guys. If those 3 are in your rotation then that only leaves 2 spots for alot of guys to fight for. With Feldman being out of options and a near lock for the rotation it really only leaves one spot for the likes of Hurley, harrison, and McCarthy to fight for. I think you really want to have at least 2 of those guys in the rotation on Opening day.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Sheets would have
two reasons to sign with Texas:
1. He knows he’s not the pitcher he once was and would like to be able to blame his decline on pitching in Texas, or more likely
2. He’d like to be closer to home while he spends half the season on the DL.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
Or we make him a strong offer and he takes it.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
There are two kinds of men in this world: Men who make jump throws, and men who wish that they were Derek Jeter so that they could make jump throws.
by thedirkatron on Dec 10, 2008 8:33 AM CST up reply actions
If I had to venture a guess,
I would think that bringing Sheets here depends on 3 things.
1. A big salary dump in the form of Millwood, Padilla or Young.
2. Sheets agreeing to accept less than market value for his services.
3. All of the above happening in a timely manner.
So, I give the probability of obtaining Sheets at less than 5%.
JD told you not to read too much into those talks.
"Evolution happened, now get over it." Michael Shermer
Possibly
It would mean an increase of probably around 5 million to the payroll from last year. I think if thats all you had to increase it to get a guy like Sheets Nolan would be able to convince Hicks to do it.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I'm going to guess that (2) happens only if (1) happens first.
meet me at the mawwl... it's goin dowwn...
by oc on Dec 9, 2008 9:15 PM CST up reply actions
i think the rangers will pay him market
and i don’t think there is anyway that sheets accepts less than market, particularly because the yankees already offered him market
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
What're the savings one can get by playing in Texas?
Given the fact that we don’t have a state income tax.
Seems like we could offer lower money and it’d be equal to those with higher offers that reside in states with an income tax…..throw in the low standard of living in comparison to other states, seems like we’d be at an advantage in that regard.
Anyone know?
Freddie King rules faces.
by Cecilio's Guante on Dec 9, 2008 10:13 PM CST reply actions
income taxes
states with an income tax exercise their right to tax nonresident professional athletes when playing in said state. It’s still an advantage to play 81 games in a state without an income tax, just not as big a factor though.
by Randy Richardson on Dec 9, 2008 10:34 PM CST up reply actions
By that argument
the AL West is a bad division to play in, with 20 games played in Oakland and LA, with Cali’s ridiculous income tax, especially at atheletes’ levels.
He would probably get a deal on Nolan Ryan brand beef
I dont think any other Presidents sell their own meat. Also gas is pretty cheap here and if he waits until July 3rd and Dec 31st, fireworks are like buy 1 get 10 free.
i think developing
the farm as one of the best in MLB isn’t enough; sooner or later we’ll have to start adding top notch free agents (eg. sheets) and acquire young studs via trade (and giving up a beltre or beaven or a borbon.
But the farm is the first step
Now we can look at taking that second step. The Rays didn’t start adding FAs until their young pitchers had arrived and gotten some experience. Thats why I think ideally you would wait until next winter to start adding those FAs but since this years crop is so good you may have to go ahead and do it now.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
im sorry but
if burnett is potentially receiving offers of 5 years/100 million i cant see sheets going for a price we can realistically afford. even with fewer years than AJ’s deal it would still take a high average annual salary. yes hes been dogged by injuries his whole career but burnett isnt free from the fragility label himself, despite finally putting together a healthy season in 08. i just dont see how burnett is either that much better or that much less of a health risk to merit 5/100 while sheets only winds up with something like 3/42.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Dec 10, 2008 5:51 AM CST reply actions
yep
All these rumors of Sheets and 2/26 are crazy. Until he signs for that low an amount I can’t believe he would even consider taking that deal no matter which team it was from.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
if sabathia signs with Yanks as expected
and Tex signs with Boston, then two of the big market teams may be out on Sheets. I think Sheets is a good fit.
If Burnett gets a 5/100 deal, that would be way too much and that team would regret it right away. If that’s what it takes to get Sheets, you don’t do it, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to go 3/49. I don’t know what his market value is, but I don’t think you pay him $20 M /yr
Wait 'til the year after next
Sheets
If Burnett gets 20 mil per then Sheets gets at least 18 per and probably the same or one less years.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
no way sheets gets 5 years
I think you have a 4th year option in the deal, but 3/51 wouldn’t be awful. Trading Padilla + Laird pays for Sheets.
Wait 'til the year after next
I think
Its a much better chance he gets 4 with an option for a 5th year rather than a 3 year deal with an option for a 4th. Especially with CC getting 7 years and Burnett supposedly being offered 5.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Burnett is 32
and would be an albatross if he signs a deal that long and monetary big. He already has injury issues. Are those issues going to be better when he’s 36 and 37.
Sheets is 30. and the same thing can be said about him. Plus Hicks isn’t going to give a long-term deal. In all likelihood we do not sign him.
Sabathia is 28 with no injury history at this point. He is worth more of an investment, but 160 Million. Only 1 team could afford that.
Wait 'til the year after next
Sabathia in 2011!!
Let’s start saving our bucks now for a run at Sabathia when he opts out in 2011!
Even at 31, he could be the final piece to the rebuild and the kids would have a season of experience under their belt.
Hard to fathom the Yanks have only Sabathia and ARod for $53 million this season… and if they DO sign Lowe for $16… then Sabathia, ARod and Lowe are making $69 million in 2009. EQUAL TO THE RANGERS ROSTER! Wow.
Go Cubbies and Go Rangers!
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