Politics, and what players talk about
Amusing item on Page 2 about politics and players' lack of interest in same, which includes some comments from C.J. Wilson.
But my favorite part was this:
- Baseball
- Free sunglasses
- Breasts
- Dinner options
- The Kyle Kendrick YouTube video
- Britney Spears
- Strip clubs
- More Jesus/golf (tie)
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Comments
CJ on fire
"Breasts". Funny. Isn't that in the top 3 of any discussion list among straight guys? Just like "dick" is in the top 3 among gay guys. The libido is a powerful beast.
by RangerMoto on Feb 24, 2008 7:49 PM CST 0 recs
BGL a community favorite...
by slc ranger on
Feb 24, 2008 8:22 PM CST
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absolutely agree
by RangerMoto on
Feb 24, 2008 9:46 PM CST
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Laird...
Each dominant in their respected sports...
THE ANTI-BEAST
by miles on
Feb 24, 2008 11:02 PM CST
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They can both beat you
by Chase Irwin on
Feb 24, 2008 11:41 PM CST
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The only
THE ANTI-BEAST
by miles on
Feb 24, 2008 11:46 PM CST
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Hey Miles...
by lonestarJon on
Feb 25, 2008 12:03 AM CST
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I just can't wait
by a bebop a rebop on Feb 24, 2008 7:59 PM CST 0 recs
hell yes
by Brian Thomas on
Feb 25, 2008 3:16 PM CST
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What if they...
by slc ranger on Feb 24, 2008 8:18 PM CST 0 recs
Then
by lonestarJon on
Feb 24, 2008 9:16 PM CST
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Jesus/Golf...
by Topgun22 on
Feb 24, 2008 10:03 PM CST
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You know...
You just simply cannot have a discussion about subjects as wieghty as politics in a major league clubhouse - these guys have to play together, live together on the road all year. They have to gel, and act as a team - you cannot have them arguing among themselves about Obama, Hillary, or McCain. Such opinions are very strong, and discussing them in the clubhouse, where you're going to have guys with vastly different opinions, is bound to create in-house polarization - a very bad thing for a unit such as a baseball team. So to say that their apparent lack of care for the election is "inexcusable" is just plain assenine.
Why is it that some people inist politics penetrate every aspect of our lives? In my opinion, the Democrat/Republican split in this country has gone way too far... at some point, we've got to remember that we're all Americans, and we tend to loose sight of that, especially around election time. I'm not saying politics isn't important - but there's certain places where it must be left at home, or it's going to ruin the atmosphere. Two things I think politics should stay out of: music and sports. Those should be society's two refuges from the sometimes alienating views and discusions of politics, not the next political battlegrounds.
Sorry, Adam, if this comment here is in fact too political for this thread - feel free to delete it if you like, I know you like to keep the political discussions limited in their own sphere around here - but I just felt the need to make this point, that politics needs to stay at home sometimes.
by lonestarJon on Feb 24, 2008 9:37 PM CST 0 recs
Ok, I'll bite
Music should be free of politics? Huh?
Um, Bob Dylan, Bob Geldof, John Lennon, Woody Guthrie, Chopin was banned in his native Poland, Wagner has been played by exactly one artist in Israel's history (Barenboim), Shostakovich and Prokofiev lived under perpetual fear for their lives in Stalin's USSR, there have been campaign songs since the Van Buren presidential campaign, Handel wrote a Te Deum to celebrate the peace at Utrecht,
In short, if you ban politics from music, you lose hundreds of masterpieces of classical music, and many of the greatest rock/folk/rap/country, etc. songs ever written. I don't want a world without Imagine, Chopin's Heroic Polonaise, Shostakovich's 10th Symphony, Sunday Bloody Sunday, or even I Like Ike, thank you very much.
I don't care if baseball players get smart about politics. But music without politics? No thanks.
by t ball on
Feb 24, 2008 10:22 PM CST
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Perhaps I did take to big of a leap
As for politics and music, I just have never seen it cause anything but negativity in my time - a prime example would be the Dixie Chicks. Great artists, but one stupid comment later, they're all of a sudden blackballed by the entire country music community. Unfortunate, and unescessary, in my opinion - I didn't agree with what they said, but the way it was handled by the media and the industry was atrocious.
I don't claim to have seen it all or done it all, but in my experience, I've just found that America is so polarized politically (especially lately), the very mention of politics tends to controversialize and ruin anything it touches. And I'm just a little tired of seeing that already.
by lonestarJon on
Feb 24, 2008 10:40 PM CST
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Get used to it
They like to keep us fighting while they steal all of our stuff!
Fight the Power!
by Clueless on
Feb 24, 2008 11:11 PM CST
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RATM
And at the time they were at the height of their popularity the internet was nowhere near what it is today, so information about such subjects wasn't the easiest thing to come by.
Side note, system of a down has done a good job of carrying on the political fueled hard rock/metal torch.
by rentz on
Feb 25, 2008 6:46 AM CST
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Music without politics
by Brian Thomas on
Feb 25, 2008 3:16 PM CST
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+1
by jparks77 on
Feb 25, 2008 5:36 PM CST
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This is what i thought of this stupid article
I just finished reading your article on the topic of Major League Baseball players and their political indifference, and I felt the need to respond. Your article portrays, unfairly and inaccurately, the majority of baseball players as being immature and intellectually stunted. While I hesitate to call this article offensive, because the word is overused, I will say that the lack of research on your part leads the reader to the common generalization that athletes are stupid.
In thinking of a response to this article I was unable to find a good jumping off point, so I think it might be easier to just go through the article itself and point out where I think you're off base.
The Texas Rangers' clubhouse is, unlike 99.9 percent of American institutions, extremely diverse. Where else can you find a 30-something Nicaraguan splitting a bag of sunflower seeds with a 25-year-old Hawaiian? Where else can you find people of pink and brown and yellow and tan skin gathered in a circle guffawing about YouTube videos? Where else can you find someone like Josh Hamilton, a white recovering drug addict from North Carolina, spending much of his day alongside Milton Bradley, a loquacious African-American man from California?
This is true.
Here, within the confines of these four walls, the general manager is a young New Yorker (30-year-old Jon Daniels), the manager is a middle-aged African-American (56-year-old Ron Washington) and the rising star is a young, heavily tattooed Floridian (22-year-old Jarrod Saltalamacchia).
Re-hashing the first paragraph, but OK.
Yet while ballplayers are bound both by their disparate backgrounds and an uncompromised love of the game, they are also united by one not-so-great characteristic: political indifference.
United: agreed, in harmony. Wrong word choice here. To my knowledge we have never had a large meeting as baseball players citing the need for 'unity' in our 'political indifference'. Some baseball players are politically indifferent. Some baseball players are politically active yet do not discuss it in a baseball setting. Some baseball players, who you will later allude to, are politically active and vocal in their opinions.
So saying that we are 'united' isn't correct.
Yes, in this remarkable year of presidential politics -- when John McCain has risen from the dead, and Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are engaged in a historic struggle for delegates; when dynamic figures like Rudy Giuliani and Ron Paul and John Edwards fell short but fought passionately --
Sorta true. I'll let pass the thought while all the candidates have strengths, they all have critical flaws that have can make them unappealing. In my research (asking friends and family), I have found that none of these candidates are particularly exciting, possibly leading to some of the indifference.
baseball players kick back and, ahem, read their Maxims.
Now you're venturing off course. Every morning I see a number of players doing a crossword puzzle. I see a few card games, and I always see a high number of guys reading the newspaper (and not just the sports section). Based on what I see everyday, I would hesitate to make a general assumption as to the intelligence level and political consciousness of those in the room. I wish that you had done the same.
On a side note, I'd guess that the demographic at which Maxim aims its' publication is males ages 18-35. I'll let you do the math on the ages of most major league baseball players. It's not a crime to read the magazine, so the indignation in which you use to pose the idea that we're reading Maxim as opposed to the New Yorker is unnecessary.
"It's frustrating," says C.J. Wilson, the 27-year-old Texas relief pitcher. "I'd say there are two reasons. One, there's a general lack of education among us. But two -- and most important -- you're talking about a population that makes a ton of money, so the ups and downs of the economy don't impact whether we're getting paid. Therefore, we often don't care."
The money issue here is a valid point but it's not the only reason.
In saying "we," Wilson is speaking about nearly every Ranger -- except himself. A free-thinking Californian with an appreciation for Obama, a dislike of Bush, a hatred of the Clintons, a detestation of SUVs, and a longing for a grass-roots political movement that would truly represent the needs of the people, Wilson stares blankly when asked who among his teammates he can talk with about Decision '08.
"No one," he says. "I keep it to myself."
While a few Rangers profess moderate interest ("Obama's inspired me," says outfielder Jason Ellison. "I have a 2-year-old daughter and I want her to grow up in a healthy country"), most merely shrug their shoulders or offer a half-hearted "I'm just focused on playing ball and helping the team win," when asked about the upcoming election. Some call themselves conservatives, others call themselves moderates, but few seem to actually know what the two terms mean. "It's not that complex," Wilson says. "Baseball players think about baseball."
I really wonder how many people you interviewed, and what the circumstances were surrounding your questioning. I know that if you asked me when I was heading to or returning from a workout, which is 90% of the time for most players in the clubhouse, I wouldn't be in a hurry to talk politics. I can only imagine it was the same for most of your interviewees.
Not that this is simply a Rangers phenomenon. Throughout spring training clubhouses in Arizona and Florida, politics fail to generate interest. Finding someone who has participated in a state primary or caucus is slightly harder than finding a cinematic role for Meeno Peluce. The majority of players are almost certainly not even registered to vote. On the morning following last Tuesday's highly publicized Wisconsin Democratic primary, nary a Ranger nor Kansas City Royal could be heard talking about the results. Heck, no one even seemed to know the event took place.
Meeno Peluce?? I'm guessing you googled 'obscure actors' and found this random name to insert into your article.
Anyways, a group of 20-30 yr olds not being completely current on the Wisconsin Democratic Primary is hardly an indictment on our group's knowledge as a whole.
I'm also bothered by the fact that you've failed to mention that we're going through the primaries and caucuses and not the general election. I'd be willing to bet that come late summer and early fall when the race really heats up, that there will be political conversation to be found in MLB clubhouses.
Indeed, a top 10 list of spring training topics discussed by ballplayers would look something like this:
- Baseball
- Free sunglasses
- Breasts
- Dinner options
- The Kyle Kendrick YouTube video
- Britney Spears
- Strip clubs
- More Jesus/golf (tie)
- The selection of Raul Castro to replace his brother in Cuba.
- The destruction of the dead satellite by the US, and it's global ramifications.
- The impending recession
- The impact of Ralph Nader's run for office and its' effect on the democratic race
- The entire works of Dostoyevsky
- Sports
- Meeno Peluce and his inability to get consistent work
- Barry Bonds
- The democratic primaries
Of course this is just a shot in the dark. Either way, I'm sure it's very similar to this.
"Baseball players are inherently selfish," says Brian Johnson, the former major league catcher. "Everything is about 'me.' People want my autograph, people want to see me, people want to watch my games on TV. Everyone works around my schedule, even my wife and kids. So it's hard to have a global or national perspective when everything is about you."
This is probably dead on. Of course a baseball player's career lasts in the neighborhood of ten to fifteen years. It's an incredibly demanding profession in which there's very little room for error, so being selfish is somewhat of a prerequisite. I'll bet if you conducted interviews with ex-baseball players who are now in their 40's and 50's you'd find a group with much more refined political ideologies.
What many ballplayers fail to understand is that, in terms of policy, they will be as impacted by this fall's election as anyone. While McCain plans on upholding the tax cuts enacted under George W. Bush, both Obama and Clinton want tax breaks to expire for Americans making more than $200,000 per year. (Read: baseball players.) Though McCain has said little about automobile emissions, Obama and Clinton have demanded drastic improvements in fuel efficiency standards. (The unofficial baseball player vehicle of choice? The mighty Hummer.)
These issues do impact us. We are not however, a group that politicians are trying to get votes from. With there being 900 MLB players, and with only 50% at best actually voting, 450 votes isn't swinging the race in any direction.
Also, I count one Hummer in our parking lot. 60 players in Major league camp. One Hummer. Looks like you ventured back into an over generalization again.
The list goes on and on.
If there is hope for a change of thinking in athletes, it comes in the form of those retirees primed for political runs. Former Mets ace Al Leiter often discussed delving into the political arena, and Johnson hasn't ruled out a governmental future in his home state of Michigan. Certainly men like Wilson and Curt Schilling are candidates to one day wind up in Washington. And there's always Charles Barkley, a fiscally conservative, socially liberal native Alabaman who recently told CNN that he would vie for the governorship of his home state in 2014.
Your first line really makes no sense. Retired athletes are much different than athletes who are still playing. Jim Bunning didn't change the political awareness for future generations of baseball players, so why would anyone else be different? I mentioned it earlier that retired players would give you much different answers than you got in our clubhouse. This brings me to my main point and my reason for thinking this is a terrible article. Why don't athletes care? According to you it's because we're a bunch of trash mag reading, strip clubbing, selfish pampered rich kids with no sense of the outside world.
If I wrote an article on this subject I'd go on the theory that maybe baseball players don't care because most of us are in our twenties and early thirties. I'd be interested to see how many people our age in other walks of life are discussing the Wisconsin Democratic Primaries.
Lastly, why do you care if we care? How does that affect any one of your readers? Do you want baseball cards that read: Mike Smith bats/throws R/L 6'4 200 lbs. Political views; Fiscal conservative, social liberal? For the life of me I can't figure out your reasoning behind writing this article.
Until then, please pass the Maxim. I hear Avril Lavigne's on the cover.
Again, Yuck.
Brandon McCarthy
Texas Rangers
by BlackGloveRighty on
Feb 25, 2008 12:48 AM CST
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Eeeeyouuch!!!
Aside from the fact that Pearlman appears to be trying to ignite some kind of political controversy about the so-called "ignorance" of today's atheletes (which you pretty much disproved with that well-written letter), I really don't know why that article was written either. Guess the guy had a deadline to make?
BTW, good luck on Wensday.
by lonestarJon on
Feb 25, 2008 1:03 AM CST
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many state primaries
by SteveP on
Feb 25, 2008 1:12 AM CST
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Jeff Pearlman
by Chase Irwin on
Feb 25, 2008 1:14 AM CST
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Man....
Can't say that I'm surprised that this dude has a Barry Bonds book out, either.
I gotta say, though, if you are going to get this riled up over some random journalist's scattershot attempt to make a stupid joke and stir a pot that probably shouldn't have even been touched in the first place; you, sir, are going to have alot of very long, semi-stressful diatribes in what should hopefully be a great career.
P.S. I honestly think that you just became my favorite baseball personality, though.
P.P.S. C.J. Wilson would have had a pretty solid shot at the personality title except he let Anthony Andro get away with saying that "straight edge" was from the California punk rock scene in his piece about the tattoos a few days ago.
Tisk, tisk.
Last time I checked, Ian MacKaye was from DC. No love lost, though.
by IPuntSmallDogs on
Feb 25, 2008 1:30 AM CST
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Thanks.
Love your work, big guy.
by IPuntSmallDogs on
Feb 25, 2008 11:58 PM CST
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wowzas
It's neat that you took the time to respond to the article. There's plenty of awful, awful writers out there, and I like it when smart ballplayers call them out. It doesn't happen often enough.
One thing I will sort of agree with Pearlman on (although I don't know this was his point): I think baseball players absolutely should be politically active and involved. As a highly public figure, they have powers that us regular civilians just don't. Athletes (and actors, musicians, whatever) should reach out, engage their fans and encourage everyone to be involved and educated and interested in politics and the world around them.
They don't have to. I don't think it's their "responsibility". But I think they should because it's the right thing to do.
There's an important distinction, too: I don't care for famous people campaigning for their favorite cause (because, really, I'm not voting for president based on what George Cloony or the guitar player from Green Day think). Instead, those people should get their fans to pick up a paper, read about issues and make up their own minds.
by alon91 on
Feb 25, 2008 2:09 AM CST
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Excellent response
I think that as well as putting players political views on baseball cards we should also add clutch and grit ratings.
by rentz on
Feb 25, 2008 6:47 AM CST
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Great, pointed response
I'd also venture that people my age (born in 1937) have more to say about political candidacy, but seldom actually go active within campaigns, than those in their 20's and 30's.
Heh .. we also don't drive Hummers, yet are pretty disdainful of Prius's. :)
by Ed Coffin on
Feb 25, 2008 9:16 AM CST
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Love seeing the thought out response
by hillcrest on
Feb 25, 2008 9:26 AM CST
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BlackGloveRighty
by Randy Richardson on
Feb 25, 2008 10:01 AM CST
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it was
by BlackGloveRighty on
Feb 25, 2008 2:51 PM CST
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good take BGR
by Jayslick on
Feb 26, 2008 10:27 PM CST
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Some good thoughts, but ...
That said, I am incredibly politically active and aware -- and I do not talk politics at work. Why? We're there to work -- politics can be divisive when people are passionate about different candidates and different issues. When you have to work with these people every day, it's not a safe issue to bring up.
Finally, can you repeat your little survey, take a look in that parking lot and tell us how many full-size SUVs and trucks, including but not limited to the one Hummer there are? Just for kicks, how many hybrids or ULEV (or better) vehicles are there?
by devo on
Feb 27, 2008 3:26 PM CST
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BRITNEY SPEARS???
by Clueless on Feb 24, 2008 11:08 PM CST 0 recs
OT: Oscars...
I don't really have a problem with any of those winners. I figured the first two, but for some reason I thought There Will Be Blood would take best picture. Thoughts?
by slc ranger on Feb 24, 2008 11:08 PM CST 0 recs
I thought No Country was way better
by a bebop a rebop on
Feb 24, 2008 11:16 PM CST
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Quite taken aback
My gut feeling was No Country would have the right combination of popular and critical momentum.
Disappointed Diving Bell didn't get best director, or at least best cinematography (where it really distinguished itself). That movie was just sublime.
Actually I'd have preferred Anderson getting Director over the Cohens, even though I liked NCFOM better.
by hightowersmith on
Feb 24, 2008 11:25 PM CST
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Related to earlier comments
I haven't read Pearlman's thing yet but the insinuation that it's dumb to overlook presidential politics is disappointing. Presidential races are on par with wrestling: pick a bad guy, pick a good guy, root accordingly (then go back to your real life). It's a verbal activity, not an action activity, so you can bet it's a vanity activity.
Sadly this extends to most political dialogue. It's just argument. Especially online.
The thing you hear in college is that the personal is political. I still don't know what this means. I'd bet it hasn't proved out for most educated job-holders in the West. My goals are influenced by my own decisions, not a politician, not a political issue, probably not even a policy.
I'm not trying to throw a molotov cocktail. I don't know, sometimes I think of a political biography essay I read by Norman Podhoretz that I think David Brooks linked. It reminded me a little of my own process of hearing about bands I liked, books I liked, one leads to another.
The big difference of course is everyone knows bands and books are just entertainment. My experience is that politics and its ideas haven't gotten over the pretense to be something higher.
I've wanted to say that a long time. I guess I'd like to hear thoughts on how people's day-to-day lives are observably changed by politics.
by hightowersmith on Feb 24, 2008 11:51 PM CST 0 recs
Can you elaborate on this?
Are you actually saying politics and government shouldn't aspire to something higher than entertainment?
by Brian Thomas on
Feb 25, 2008 6:06 PM CST
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I think the point he's making
I believe something similar happened back in the 1800's... it turned into the Civil War.
by lonestarJon on
Feb 25, 2008 6:19 PM CST
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Yah
Paying for one for your friend, or agreeing to adopt the child after she carries it...those actions are relevant to some kind of politics.
The political discussion going on outside of it, especially arguing, has no real use. It's vanity.
And I've never had to convince my pregnant roommate not to abort, or do the equivalent for any other political "issue." I wager none of us ever really are in that position whatever the issue.
I leave politics to politicians, who make life sacrifices (and probably learn a lot along the way) in order to have their policy influence.
by hightowersmith on
Feb 26, 2008 12:54 AM CST
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Well
As the fly on the wall sees it, it's just people arguing or agreeing, in both cases. The decisions they make to live their actual life don't intersect with government and political issues.
I'm not saying this for shock value. I genuinely ask for examples of how politics actually shows up in people's lives.
The acts of politicians never seem to change mine, and I bet they don't the lives of people arguing political topics either.
by hightowersmith on
Feb 26, 2008 12:59 AM CST
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I work in the Defense industry
Obviously, it is a polarizing topic that frequently leads to bickering, but you seem to imply that if there's not something in it for numero uno, why bother?
Is that what you are saying? Being informed is for suckers?
by Brian Thomas on
Feb 26, 2008 1:16 PM CST
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Being informed is for suckers
Both involve ideas, neither involves much action, and life decisions are based on completely separate things.
Actually I favor books because I understand my participation. I'm the audience. I could possibly even read something, write a letter to the author and surprise him with a new interpretation. Probably not likely, but possible.
With politics, the connection the informed has is murkier and, I'm suggesting, specious.
When you mention the DOD it reminds me of grad school in DC. My roommate was an intern at NSA.
He'd come home some days with a dazed look on his face, and talk vaguely about what a fucked up world we live in.
If I asked what he was talking about, he'd say he couldn't say.
Now that, to me, is politics.
by hightowersmith on
Feb 26, 2008 6:28 PM CST
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reinstate the draft
by SteveP on Feb 25, 2008 12:30 AM CST 0 recs
That discussion would be about
by TheRupeIsOnFire on
Feb 26, 2008 9:33 PM CST
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Fidel Castro
by bushe on Feb 25, 2008 8:10 AM CST 0 recs











