Attention Hicks Family: these arent Rangers fans (greatness)

by Jayslick on Feb 25, 2008 4:17 PM CST Comment 41 comments

Ok so im a footie guy, and a Liverpool supporter and was way before Tom Hicks bought the club and immediately called them a "franchise" (good call heh). Anyway Lil' Tom decided he was gonna stop by a pub after the game and get the true feelings from the fans. He chose Sandon, where the most extreme hooligans i mean fans gather before and after LFC matches. Its the birthplace of LFC and well, lets just say it isnt RBiA.

anyway read the whole story, its gottan be the greatest Hicks Moment in History. 7 would be proud. It also makes me wish we had fans like that. They dont take crap from no1.

"All of a sudden, his smile was replaced by a grimace of concern.

And as the volume was cranked up still further by the swollen crowd, Tommy's facial expression quickly changed.

It appeared to say "Get Me Out Of Here" to his bodyguards.

At least his desire to evacuate showed he had something in common with the fans who, by that stage, had adapted one of their favourite protest songs to inform him, not too politely, that the "lying b****d" should get out of their pub."

"At best, it was a well meaning attempt to build some bridges on Hicks junior's part.

At worst, it was yet another failure to understand English football culture and proof of the failure of Liverpool's owners to grasp just how unpopular they have become."

source: http://liverpool.theoffside.com/liverpool/tom-hicks-jr-has-a-pint-with-the-locals-what-could-possibl y-go-wrong.html

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=i-wanted-to-talk-to-fans-say s-tom-hicks-jnr%26method=full%26objectid=20521288%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=tom-hicks-jnr-how-it-turned- nasty-in-the-sandon%26method=full%26objectid=20521287%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

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Somewhat off topic...

...watching Manchester United V. Tottenham at the Londoner in Addison, TX a couple weeks ago and a Liverpool fan was behind me openly rooting for the Hotspurs. After about the 7th time she made it clear that she hated me for being a United fan I turned to her, asked if she was a Liverpool fan, and, after receiving the anticipated confirmation, let her know that Tom Hicks is the greatest owner in the world and how glad I was that he was taking such care of LFC.

She shut up....of course that could have been because Tevez scored the equalizer shortly after that, but still...

"sorry, I'm usually a dick by pointing these things out but 'concepted' is classic" - ab03

by Suicide Prince on Feb 25, 2008 4:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Jr.

It is nice to see that JR. is just as stupid as dad.

The only hope that Ranger fans seem to have now is that dad sells the team, because I think that we can rule out Jr. doing a better job running the team.

by baylor on Feb 25, 2008 4:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

The thing I find funny about all this

Is the fact that Junior already needs bodyguards.

"The only thing Gerald Laird can beat me at is number of glazed donuts eaten in 10 minutes" - Miles

by lonestarJon on Feb 25, 2008 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Like father, like son

Baseball Time in Arlington

by jamcadbury on Feb 25, 2008 5:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

OK, can someone fill me in

Hicks only bought the team like 6 months ago, right?

How the hell did he enrage the entire fanbase that quickly?

Rex Hudler is in demand as a motivational speaker.

by Brian Thomas on Feb 25, 2008 6:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

They lost the world soccer cup thingy

Or something like that. I don't know for sure.

Bottom line, he took over, and they started loosing (at least that's what I've made from all the angry rants from the liverpool fans) - gee, does that trend sound familiar? Hmn... now where have I seen that before...

"The only thing Gerald Laird can beat me at is number of glazed donuts eaten in 10 minutes" - Miles

by lonestarJon on Feb 25, 2008 6:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Because, Brian

Here's my stab and answering your very good question:

Their team is shite (compared to the three truly world class English clubs)

Their manager is a fickle dilettante who is in over his head

They are going to finish behind their cross-town rivals Everton, meaning they will fail to qualify for the Champions league

Their captain is an underacheiver for club and for country who can no longer be considered one of world's great midfielders

They are a frustrated, sad lot who find it easier to blame it all on the Yank owner rather than their own manager and players.

Seriously, it's beyond absurd for Hicks to receive this type of treatment. Liverpool supporters should direct their anger at their squad and their manager, who underacheive and are the only ones responsible for their current predicament.

But that river of tears has dried for all of us.

by trza on Feb 25, 2008 7:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Alright now

Don't make me and jayslick come and kick your arse!

Rafa's a fine manager- he does tend to outthink himself, but there's no better man for European competitions. Although he hasn't yet won the Premier League, he's got two Spanish league titles, a UEFA Cup, a Champions League title and a second-place finish, a European Super Cup, and an FA Cup to his credit.

Man United and Chelsea do have league titles since Benitez took over at Liverpool, but no European trophies. Arsenal has had neither, and finished behind Liverpool each of the past two seasons.

Gerrard did underachieve last year, but 17 goals this season says he's back on track.

As for qualifying for the Champions League next season, it's going to happen one way or another- we'll either finish fourth or win the CL, in which case, it doesn't matter where we finish in England. We fear no one in Europe!

"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky

by RCCook on Feb 25, 2008 7:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

haha

Good response, RCCook. I'll confess to overstating my case to get a rise out of you. And I admit that Steven Gerrard remains one of my favorite players (although I'm extremely frustrated with him for rolling over as he did during England's disastrous Euro qualifiers).

Liverpool has seen a lot of success in the Cup competitions of late. Still, I can't understand the hate directed to Hicks. Can it be chalked up to anything more than anti-American xenophobia?

But that river of tears has dried for all of us.

by trza on Feb 25, 2008 7:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Hatred comes from:

1) On day one literally the 1st 10 minutes in public he stated how proud he was to be part of such a great "franchise"

problem: american leagues are set up like franchises, basically leagues being single business entities here. In europe they are clubs, the league is built from the clubs, in america the clubs are built around the league. its a touchy subject they dont like the american formula for leagues. it has to do with free trade, in europe governments are socialist and sports are free trade, in america, government is free trade and sports is socialist. thats how stuff like the draft is legal here.

He promised to inject a bunch of money, think A-rod all over again. but the money they spent this year was mostly from players sold and the old owner would have contributed that much cash to do those deals. he talked big and got 2 great guys but the rest of their buys were mid table quality guys. the supporters expected more, but only b/c he sold it so high. Torres is a god and Babel looks like a great buy, but they didnt cost that much relatively speaking and Hicks contributions dont match up as huge financial input in the end.
He made a huge fuss about building the greatest stadium ever, think jerry world europe.

Problem: english hate the way US stadiums are built in symmetry, they feel they arent personal they dont cater to the fans in closeness to the action etc, he even hired the guys who designed the cowboys new stadium to design new anfield. But hicks talked up a huge game on the stadium. then hicks found out about property value and union labor in england and how friggin expensive everything is with a dollar at 15% or more below value. Hicks turtled, now they are talking a less expensive stadium and cutting the budget etc.

He reamed in public Rafa over rotating his lineup. this is like if wash didnt always play his best lineup b/c there are 162 games. its Rafa's way, and they arent doing well, guys cant get in a rhythm with their double play partners per say. This didnt go over well, and fans still feel he betrayed the guy even though the rotation policy is a joke, and they all agree now, and Rafa said he's shit-canning it.
Hicks did back-stab Rafa, when Liverpool had a rough stretch, Hicks offered his job to a german (british hate germany) under the table, this is like Jerry attempting to fire Jimmy and replace him with Joe Theisman only Joe Theisman turned him down.
The money he bought the team with was borrowed cash, meaning he didnt put that much down. then he put all the debt from the borrowing on the clubs books, then the dollar crashed and he lost like 15% of the value of his loan. then he refinanced the debt to make it more manageable, but with the pound to dollar ratio going to hell it put more debt on the books.
Rumors have surfaced he could sell the team to a Dubai company that makes him look as rich compared to him as me to hicks (im hicks, he's Dubai) in comparison less than a year later but only for a huge profit and jump ship.

and thats just the stuff i could remember off the top of my head. if i did research id come up with 4 or 5 more things he did to ostracize him from the fanbase but its not worth it.

Basically he treated Liverpool like he has treated Rangers fans only rangers fans take it and feel like its part of the deal. Here he can lie about the product and make false promises while soaking up the profits and we're so used to it that nothing happens. In Liverpool, they sing songs the whole time about how the "lying b***d needs to sell the club" for 90 min with a "youll never walk alone" on each side to bookend the match, meanwhile 40,000 people who didnt go to the game b/c they are protesting burn his persona in effigy.

anyway, thats my as educated as necesary list of how Hicks has done exactly to Liverpool what he did to the rangers for so long. Funniest part is this isnt even the first world class footy club he's tryied to ruin. he did even worse with a brasilian club.

.500 or bust!

by Jayslick on Feb 25, 2008 8:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ah Ha ...thanks Jayslick

I knew there had to be more to the story.
Well Big Daddy is stinking things up over there too. What a shocker!

Warning: Consumption of large amounts of these sunflower seeds could cause dellusions and dementia.

by LAMuscleFag on Feb 25, 2008 9:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

the debt thing is the biggie

teams over there dont have the leagues to bail them out from poor business practices. they just go bankrupt and are forced to sell all there guys and get relegated. bad business has sunk a lot of clubs. leeds for example was like the braves of the 90's and they went so broke they eventually are in like AA. without a central league to cover for poor "franchises" in profits, they just go out of business.

sports is a crazy thing on that side of the pond.

.500 or bust!

by Jayslick on Feb 25, 2008 9:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

That's a pretty good summary of what Hicks has done to piss off the British Liverpool fans so much.

Putting debt on the club, and the stadium issue, are two particularly big sticking points. When Hicks and Gillett bought LFC, they assured fans that the debt would not be transferred to the club (at least for the most part) and that there would be no problems securing financing for the stadium. Both statements have turned out to be untrue. He's also dallied a little over the signing of Javier Mascherano, though Rafa says it's close to being done.

The Klinsmann thing was also particularly offensive- going behind the manager's back to talk to a replacement is one thing, but when you're thinking of replacing a proven cup-winning manager with someone whose sole experience is three years running the German national team, well, that's bound to piss a lot of people off. Liverpool fans are notoriously supportive of the manager, even when the team isn't playing well.

FWIW, I don't think Rafa's rotation policy is anywhere near the problem it's been made out to be. Paul Tomkins, Liverpool's answer to Mickey Spagnola, noted in his latest book "Above Us Only Sky" that Rafa made the same number of changes per match last season as both Ferguson and Mourinho. The problem is that several of the club's big players- Xabi Alonso, Kuyt, and Riise, in particular- have badly underachieved this season. I've been impressed with Babel, and Lucas also appears to have a bright future with LFC.

The two things I would criticize Rafa for are sticking with Kuyt at the expense of Peter Crouch, and for being a little slow to make subs when it's obvious a change is needed. I also think losing his assistant, Pako Ayerestan, has hurt him.

"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky

by RCCook on Feb 25, 2008 9:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Liverpool

a lot of the fans got upset that hicks went behind the managers back and started talking to other candidates. Also they don't feel he is allowing the team to sign the best players (or whatever the process is there)

bottom line going to a pub there is a REALLLLY bad idea for him

Theory: Jeter wears rings on fielding hand,rendering fielding borderline impossible.

by rentz on Feb 25, 2008 7:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

true and true

I agree with both your both your explanations as well, rentz, but still don't understand why the Liverpool supporters feel this way. Benitez is (for some unknown reason) popular amongst Liverpool supporters, but Hicks was reaching out to Jurgen Klinsman, one of the two best currently unemployed managers available (Jose Mourinho being the other one). Klinsmann would be a undisputable upgrade over Benitez, who seemingly picks his squads out of a hat every Sunday morning.

I don't understand the second complaint either. Hicks purchased the best striker on the market last summer (Torres) for a pretty penny, and shelled out for a lot of other expensive players as well (Babel, Benayoun). The signings other than Torres have not turned out well, but that isn't Hicks' fault.

But that river of tears has dried for all of us.

by trza on Feb 25, 2008 7:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

another point

i think they just flat out don't like "a yank" owning the team

Theory: Jeter wears rings on fielding hand,rendering fielding borderline impossible.

by rentz on Feb 25, 2008 7:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ding ding

I think that's the crux of the matter there.

But that river of tears has dried for all of us.

by trza on Feb 25, 2008 7:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Practice Makes Perfect

That fanbase doesn't quite have the slow burn of Ranger fans. It only took then six months to figure out that Hicks doesn't care about winning, and they do! They don't give free passes.

I'll be a Troll. Try crossing my bridge, Sally!

by Clueless on Feb 26, 2008 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

Tedd, Rob, Jayslick, and Rentz gave me all these nonsensical facts and pointless specific examples, sandwiched by veteran soccer fan psychology and history.

But, seriously, who needs all that, when you can read insight like this:

"It only took then six months to figure out that Hicks doesn't care about winning, and they do!"

Mahalo...

Rex Hudler is in demand as a motivational speaker.

by Brian Thomas on Feb 26, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My Genius

seems to awe and attract you.

Sometimes the simple truth is...well,
the simple truth.

I'll be a Troll. Try crossing my bridge, Sally!

by Clueless on Feb 26, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL so true..

It's like Jenna Bush saying I'm going to go smoke a joint with the Taliban and try and mend fences.
He's lucky he got out of their alive, those British soccer fans are *NUTS*.

Warning: Consumption of large amounts of these sunflower seeds could cause dellusions and dementia.

by LAMuscleFag on Feb 25, 2008 6:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Not Nuts

The British soccer fans are knowledgable, and know when their owner doean't care about their interest...the team on the field.

I'll be a Troll. Try crossing my bridge, Sally!

by Clueless on Feb 26, 2008 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

WHAT?

I'd say that the holligan types are *NUTS*.
What does getting spit on and having beer thrown on you have to do with knowledge? I'm sure most soccer fans are decent people but there is that element of holligan behavior you sure won't find at any Ranger game and it's just not one or two guys. They do it in mass.

Warning: Consumption of large amounts of these sunflower seeds could cause dellusions and dementia.

by LAMuscleFag on Feb 26, 2008 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Missing the point

there are some good books on the topic that are worth a read. Dougie Brimson has written a bunch of stuff thats worth a read. The thing to keep in mind is that england itself is so small and these town have been rivals since the land was made up of city-states. They became industrial rivals and meanwhile not one city is further then a couple hours max. so basically all these towns have always hated eachother for centuries. the fans dont have much to do with that. but the past rivalries make it one of those my town is better than your town and ill show you, type of things.

example: during the early industrial age liverpool was one of the largest shipping ports on earth. most of the goods went through that port to the rest of UK. it was a time of great success for the city and immigrants from ireland poured in to fill the jobs. well manchester saw an opportunity and they built a canal to bring goods further inland and it was a little south as well which was a bonus. it cost liverpool billions and the ports dominance came to an end as shipping chose to goto manchester. liverpool residents have hated each other ever since and that fact is that it has little to do with the actual game.

the thing to remember is its as if your worst rival think philadelphia, NY, and washington with the cowboys only all the cities are 45 mins. away from each other and have been rivals for 500 years or more.

we're just babies in this whole rivalries thing.

i wish to god every night that our fans would chant, and sing songs and rattle stuff like the japanese fans do and soccer fans do it would make baseball so much more fun.

it would be like every time Andy Petitte took the mound every inning we sang, "The needle and the damage done" by neil young the whole time he warmed up. Or every time Arod walked up to the plate we sang "The kids are alright"

thats greatness.

.500 or bust!

by Jayslick on Feb 26, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well obviously there is a lot ..

of hatred there which is my point. I would hope that as time goes on and rivalries become stronger in this country that we never have to go to a sports game worrying and assured of violence in mass. Personally I'd rather pass on the sign-a-longs as each player approaches the plate.

Warning: Consumption of large amounts of these sunflower seeds could cause dellusions and dementia.

by LAMuscleFag on Feb 26, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Passion

is not the same as Hatred.

...and NUTS is going into a den of hungry wolves and not expecting to get bit!
THEIR den; OUR junior NUT.

I'll be a Troll. Try crossing my bridge, Sally!

by Clueless on Feb 26, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Like Jayslick said..

"these towns have always HATED each other for centuries." If you're spitting and throwing beer on your rivals most likely "passion" is a bit of a candy coating.

Warning: Consumption of large amounts of these sunflower seeds could cause dellusions and dementia.

by LAMuscleFag on Feb 26, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

obviously

that is not standard practice for your average citizen but he didnt go where your average citizens congregate. he went where the hardest of the harcore go and got treated in that fashion. its like going to a gay club and getting mad b/c sum dude grabbed your ass. hey buddy, you put yourself in that position, what did you expect would happen?

.500 or bust!

by Jayslick on Feb 26, 2008 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeh that's true Jayslick..

he should NEVER of even been there. Are you from Europe? You seem to be REALLY into the soccer thing.

Warning: Consumption of large amounts of these sunflower seeds could cause dellusions and dementia.

by LAMuscleFag on Feb 26, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Its a close race...

Im as really into it as baseball, see for me it works out perfect, the leagues in europe start around august 1st, and dont really get going good for a month or so. thats right about the time baseball season is wrapping up. so its perfect. i can spend my winter into footy and it wraps up around late may, right when baseball gets going. then i can watch all the rangers games and hit up the minor league game stats daily and i get my cowboys fill, but american football is my 3rd favorite sport.

baseball is first then footy then football.

i really got into it b/c the best in the world play in europe and think about the %'s american football or basketball have a deion or a MJ roll around ever so often, just by shear volume of players globally there is like 3 or 4 MJ's and Deion's in every generation. the athletic talent is so deep its blew me away and basically demanded my attention.

.500 or bust!

by Jayslick on Feb 26, 2008 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

also

nope, not from europe, just a guy who grew up playing soccer and baseball from the age of 4, plus my family has a history as american football coaches, so im into it all. like i said, less american football these days, but i dig the strategy.

.500 or bust!

by Jayslick on Feb 26, 2008 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I really wish

Baseball would use Soccer's system of promotion and relegation. It'd be nice to have some punishement for incompetent ownership.

"We should have bombed it (Auschwitz)"-President Bush

by DJCahill on Feb 26, 2008 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ROFL

then the Devil Reys would be in like Rookie Short Season by now.

yeah i always thought the relegation thing was sweet. put up or go down.

.500 or bust!

by Jayslick on Feb 26, 2008 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd love it

although the Rangers would probably be a AA or AAA franchise by now. Also, having the minors no longered tied to the major league team would be interesting.

"We should have bombed it (Auschwitz)"-President Bush

by DJCahill on Feb 26, 2008 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

haha well that works out perfectly!

I need to become a soccer fan there's too much time between the football season and the baseball season damnit! Especially since the Cowboys and Rangers keep getting cut short.

Warning: Consumption of large amounts of these sunflower seeds could cause dellusions and dementia.

by LAMuscleFag on Feb 26, 2008 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Soccer Question

This is somewhat off topic, but is probably the best place to put it because I know there are some soccer fans here.

I've recently began getting into soccer. I studied abroad in London over the summer and followed it some (I mainly followed cricket while over there) but have recently gotten more into it because I started getting the Fox Soccer Channel. In London and now back in the States, I've pretty much just watched Premier League games, so I'm starting with just trying to figure that out. I've got a few questions for all yall soccer experts out there.

First, where in the DFW area can you get soccer jerseys? Preferably somewhere in the FW/Arlington/Grapevine areas, but really anywhere. I stayed in Chelsea while I was over there, so they are kind of my de facto favorite team. Second, is there a website that has good info on European (primarily EPL) soccer? I keep hearing FA Cup and UEFA Cup and things like that and I'm somewhat confused. Like I said I'm really new to this and just trying to figure out some of this stuff.

Also, after going to the website of The Londoner it looks like a cool place. Is there a good time to go watch matches there? Also, are there any other English pub types (again primarily looking for places closer to the Keller area than Addison).

TIA

by hurley325 on Feb 26, 2008 12:13 AM CST reply actions 0 recs