Byrd to the Cubs unlikely
by Baseball North on Mar 24, 2008 6:19 PM CDT
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PrintReed Johnson was just cut by the Jays recently. He's right handed hitter who can play center and hits lefties pretty well.
Cubs are persuing him and will likely sign him at about a million for the season. Johnson + keeping all prospects > Byrd - prospects
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7949068/Sources:-Cubs-pursuing-ex-Blue-Jay-Johnson
Looks like Murphy will have to stick it out as the 4th outfielder until Byrd reverts back to his usual .250 average.
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When Byrd
is hitting .260 with an OPS+ of about 80 at the trade deadline, JD won't be able to give him away.
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
Whatever
The Cubs obviously weren't going to part with more than Murton, and JD wasn't satisfied with a mere 4th OF for 4th OF swap.
I'll be glad not to hear about this trade anymore.
Hmm...
Maybe that's why Rangers are in the mix. They know that if the Cubs get Johnson they won't have any interest in Byrd. If the Rangers get Johnson, it might make the Cubs desperate and they could possibly cave in and add whoever JD wants added.
"Byrd to the Cubs unlikely"
Yeah, no kidding. Byrd to the Cubs has been unlikely since JD mentioned the words "pitching prospects" to Jim Hendry.
He should have been satisfiied with swapping a 30 y/o 4t OF for a 26 y/o 4th OF who has the potential to improve, but nope... we're stuck with the mighty Marlon Byrd!
Satisfied?
How many average outfield options can a team have? As a Murphy fanatic, it seems odd that you keep bringing up JD's failed attempt to trade for a player that would be Murphy's chief competitor for playing time.
Murton isn't all that. He is younger but he is a limited player. He is limited defensively and he struggles against RHP. Murphy is probably a better LF option going forward especially considering his defensive versatility.
Trying to squeeze a pitching prospect from a team is rarely a bad thing. The Rangers do not have to trade Marlon Byrd. He has value to the team both as a player, specifically as a defensive player, and in the clubhouse. Because of our current OF situation, JD had the luxury of aiming high. It turned out to be too high for the Cubs. No big loss.
Question: Which player would be more likely to struggle thus opening the door for Murphy in LF?
The washed up 30 year old or the 26 year old with the potential to improve?
lepricon
I'm not a Murphy fanatic
I do like him, and I think he's a better player than some give him credit for. But I do realize he probably doesn't have enough pop or speed to stick full-time long term at any OF spot. I actually like him better in the 4th OF role because of his versatility. He can play anywhere in the OF, and he hits enough to get a lot of at-bats in that role.
As for Murton he's not as limited defensively as you think. He's actually one of the better defensive LF's in baseball if you look at his fielding stats, like his .905 RZR in LF (which is actually an important defense position at the RBiA). His struggles have mainly been in RF, but you can work past that by just simply not playing him in RF very much, if at all.
And other thing: Murton hits much better against LHP. He can hit decently against righties as well (unlike Gerald Laird) but lefties is what he really crushes. So actually, he might complement Murphy, who is a lefty, of course: Murph and Murton could play in a semi-platoon in LF, with Murph also spelling Hamilton and Bradley in CF/RF. I really think Murton would slide into the plans a lot better than people would think, even if he is limited to playing LF.
I'll admit, trading Byrd for Murton isn't a huge coup like obtaining a young pitcher - but it would have been an upgrade. JD squeezed the Cubs, which wasn't a bad idea for awhile - I thought they'd capitulate when Pie got hurt, but they never did, and now we're stuck with nothing. If you're GM, you have to know when to squeeze, and when to take what you can get - but JD seems obsessed with squeezing. And if he keeps up trying to squeeze other teams when he only offers of crappy players in return, he's going to develop a repuation as someone other teams won't want to deal with.
That last line
people seem to say that every few months. Yet people are still willing to deal with JD.
Next track for OC, et al:
Del tha Funkee Homosapien - Catch A Bad One
by inactive lsb user on Mar 24, 2008 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions
But they're not willing to take his crappy players
When you offer something of value, people will deal with you. JD has had a lot of value to offer up until now. Now that he anly has crappy players like Laird, Byrd, and possibly Kam Loe to deal, he's going to have to face the fact that he's probalbly not gonna get first-rate talent for any of those guys.
That doesn't mean he shouldn't try, but he's got to learn to bend a little when it comes to his asking price.
JD
Do you think JD is stupid? I doubt he asked the Reds for Bailey and Bruce for Laird, but JD probably feels that the value for Laird on the market is low. He is willing to try to increase Laird's value. Laird is not a crappy player - he had one bad year.
by Randy Richardson on Mar 24, 2008 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
I hate Laird as much as the next guy, but his value couldn't be lower.
Next track for OC, et al:
Del tha Funkee Homosapien - Catch A Bad One
by inactive lsb user on Mar 24, 2008 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions
He has a 616 OPS career against RHP
He is the opposite of what you say - he's had only one good year, and that was in a platoon being protected from RHP.
There's 4 teams asking about Laird - the only reason they're not offering anything of value is because Laird is not worth anything of value. He's a backup catcher who can rip up LHP. That's it. You're never gonna get anything of real value for that.
If he does prove me wrong, and has a strong first half, I'll eat this, but I doubt he will improve his trade value to any more than what it is right now. His history, his career numbers all suggest otherwise - I'll beleive it when I see it.
Laird
He has put up good numbers in the minors too (942 OPS at OKC in 2005). Laird is an excellent defensive catcher so his offensive numbers don't have to be great to make him valuable to another team. According to ZIPS, the average C in 2007 hit .265/.326/.412 - I think Laird can perform and even outperform those type of numbers for the next 3-5 years.
by Randy Richardson on Mar 24, 2008 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions
That 942
is his only minor league stint with a ops not in the 7s, 6s or 5s.
the guy is never going to hit well for a full season.
but as a good defensive catcher that can hit lefties he can either be a below average starter or a very nice backup.
if he would just accept that role, i would love the guy. but i dont want him as a starter.
Laird
I don't want him as a starter either, at least after the trade deadline - the Rangers have two options (Salty and Teagarden) who are younger and have much more upside. But, he has the potential to build value and be a solid everyday catcher for another team. Like I said before, I think he could play everyday and put up league average numbers.
by Randy Richardson on Mar 24, 2008 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I do not believe...
...JD actively sought to trade Marlon; Cubbies were asking for him. This means Marlon was not a crappy players to Chicago.
Also, if the best you can if you get second-rate players in return, sometimes it's just not worth it. This kind of low-talent swap is like international small arms trafficking: both side go through a lot of trouble to get somethings that serves only marginal utility, but ends up to be an effort pain to get rid of in the long term.
"limited defensively"
doesn't mean his errors or RZR, it means being able to play all three OF spots.
and why is LF an "important defense position at the RBiA"?
I would guess RF is harder to play in RBIA.
" Winning doesn't always mean being first,
winning means you are doing better than you have done before"
Fine
But who would you rather have: the 30 y/o, who can play all 3 OF positions but can't hit, or the 26 y/o that can hit, and is entering his prime, but can only play LF?
Murphy provide's the versatility, Murton provides (most of) the offense. I'd rather have that than Murphy providing the offense, and Byrd providing the versatility.
I just think this is a missed opportunity to upgrade the team.
Murton = Overrated
Sorry, pal.
He can crush lefties and play passable defense in LF. Those guys are dime-a-dozen.
We have a guy like that now in Mench, and we just let one go in Sosa.
I think management likes Byrd, and unless they can make a trade that makes them better, they're gonna stay with the guy they know and like.
Jason Botts PWNS.
by thedirkatron on Mar 24, 2008 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions
+ 1
EXACTLY!!!! Not only that but Murton doesn't have the clubhouse presence that Byrd does. Every little bit helps :)
I hereby ordain you Benny Brou Ha Ha<-----Wash thinks you can hit lefties....in 2 months time you will be a full fledged Brouhaha..trust me on that one.
We'll just have to agree to disagree about this, dirkatron
Bacause I think it's the opposite, I think it's Byrd that's overrated.
He's 30, and his career peaked last year. There's no way he'll duplicate that this year. Murton is 26, and entering his prime. He would also be under club control for longer.
You say that guy like Murton are a dime a dozen - well, guess what, so are guys like Byrd. We have one in camp with us this year. His name is Jason Ellison.
I like Byrd okay, but I think his "strong clubhouse prescence" is bull. Ron Washington likes him. But Ron also likes Ben Broussard. He probably thinks Ben Broussard has "a very strong clubhouse prescence."
-1
Next track for OC, et al:
Del tha Funkee Homosapien - Catch A Bad One
by inactive lsb user on Mar 24, 2008 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree
with Jon.
1) Byrd had a career year last year,
2) that career year was based on an unsustainable BABIP rate and a very hot 1st half. His 2nd half was almost exactly in line with his career performance,
3) the Cubs were willing to give a youngish player who has shown that he can hit decently at the MLB level, and could potentially be a better than average hitter.
I say take what you can while it's hot. There's no reason to hold onto Byrd who will almost certainly have no part in a playoff team.
Req
Seems very strange
I think this is Rosenthal just throwing random names into the mix.
Adam loves him some Lard
I hope JD doesn't
overplay his hand with Laird like he has with Byrd.
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
JD wants
Murton plus one of "Jose Ceda, Sean Gallagher or Donald Veal"
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/baseball/rangers/stories/032508dnsporanglede.31bbe3a.html
I doubt that was the case
More like the Cubs turned down Gallagher for Byrd.
Gallagher's name keeps coming up the Brian Roberts trade rumors - it's likely the Cubs are saving him for that deal.
What about TB?
They could use a good defensive RF'er. Gomes is a butcher in RF. Plus, Navarro could use some competition at C.
Byrd and Laird are both cheap which TB would like.
Edwin Jackson is out of options. Throws gas + still young.
Byrd + Laird for Jackson with some prospects thrown in by TB.
Edwin Jackson = Robinson Tedeja
" Winning doesn't always mean being first,
winning means you are doing better than you have done before"
+1
They have very similar stuff.
See here:
http://baseball.bornbybits.com/plots/Edwin_Jackson.html
And here:
Except Jackson was the #1 prospect
in all of baseball at one point. I bet Jackson starts to show some consistency this year. Kazmir/Shields/Garza/Jackson/Sonnanstine. That rotation is scary good and very young.
With others on the way.
Next track for OC, et al:
Del tha Funkee Homosapien - Catch A Bad One
by inactive lsb user on Mar 24, 2008 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions
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