Kelvim Escobar possibly done
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 26, 2008 2:42 PM CDT
92 comments
Pitcher Kelvim Escobar, an 18-game winner last season, revealed this morning that he has a tear in his shoulder, an injury that could require season-ending surgery and, possibly, end his career.
"I'm concerned, I don't know what's going to happen, I don't even know if I'll be able to pitch again," said Escobar, who, just a week into his throwing program, was shut down Sunday because of shoulder pain.
That would be pretty devastating for the Angels...
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The West
If Seattle signed Bonds I'd pick them to win the division, but they currently have the OPS vacuum at DH . This is certainly bad news for the Angels though.
And with the 22nd overall selection the Dallas Cowboys select Jonathan Stewart.
by TheBZA on Mar 26, 2008 2:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Without Escobar and Lackey...
Not so sure their starters nor their team is much better then ours.
by slimshadty12 on Mar 26, 2008 2:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Best of luck to Kelvim
Obviously it's a good thing for the Rangers, but you hate to see injuries potentially bring an end to a player's career.
by jamcadbury on Mar 26, 2008 2:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
HBO Sports
i saw a segment on Bryant Gumble's program on this former player showing how to correctly throw a baseball without getting hurt at all. But, people in baseball do not want to except it, etc, etc...It was pretty interesting though, with one of his pupils actually making it in the MLB with the Devil Rays.
Also, we always here pitchers getting hurt, with shoulder and elbow (TJ surgery) problems, why do we NEVER, or rarely hear about these problems with QBs?? They have the same unnatural throwing motion...
I really feel sorry for Kelvim here...hopefully he'll be able to come back, but i doubt it as well...
the truth.
by Longhorn on Mar 26, 2008 3:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that was...
...mike marshall, the cy young pitcher in LA and earlier Detroit... he got a PhD in Kinesiology in the offseasons from Michigan State and even taught there for a bit...i saw the piece too, and though it was interesting also... but if you read any off his info its a bit different from the scenes of him at his home "training facility"... the mechanics he focuses on are pretty widely accepted not, but he tries to teach them to an extreme and that why he's thought of as a crack pot... after all he was known for his rubber arm and superior durability, most of which was done with a pretty standard delivery...
the scenes in the real sprorts piece with his students throwing on their second step and all inside out contorted on their delivery is most likely an extreme training technique... though he does still have these records....
Games pitched, season, 106, 1974
Games pitched, right-hander, season, 106, 1974
Games pitched, in relief, season, 106, 1974
Innings pitched, in relief, season, 208.1, 1974
hurler: [inaudible mumbles...] chris young [mumbles more]... [drops whiskey bottle]
by ivysafety39 on Mar 26, 2008 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quarterbacks
I think it's a stretch to say that is the exact same motion, and quarterbacks don't throw the ball 100 times every 5 days for 6 + months. I'd have to guess (with my practically nonexistent knowledge base) that pitching is more stressful.
A working class hero is something to be.
by t ball on Mar 26, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
anything
you throw overhanded is putting a lot of stress on the arm. QBs throw it ALOT, practices, everyday. I remember BP put Henson on a rather rigarous throwing schedule one offseason.
But, anyways, the point is, they throw the ball often enough in a very unnatural way and I rarely hear about TJ surgery with QBs...
the truth.
by Longhorn on Mar 26, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not even TJ surgery
just arm problems in general.
the truth.
by Longhorn on Mar 26, 2008 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pitchers throw it a lot between games too
Plus, the grip of a football is different... when you throw a football, your palm is parallel to your line of sight, while when you throw a baseball your palm is perpendicular to your line of sight. That angle change might be enough to save the elbow. Plus, a 65mph curveball and a 94mh fastball both are pretty fast, while some quarterback passes are short and soft, especially in the West Coast system.
by Inkara1 on Mar 26, 2008 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh
Also, Marshall is a bit of a crackpot. Yes, his followers are very durable and his regime worked very well for him. However, every follower I've seen of his were terrible. They could throw all day, but their mechanics drained all of their velocity and sharpness on their breaking pitches.
by badradiorules on Mar 26, 2008 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
was meant to reply below. I'm not good at computers
by badradiorules on Mar 26, 2008 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there's nothing
unnatural about throwing a baseball.
by SteveP on Mar 26, 2008 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To the contrary there is nothing natural...
about throwing a baseball. Throwing underhand is much more natural and less stressful.
There are proper ways to throw a baseball that will reduce the chance of getting hurt but it has more to with how you slow down your arm then how you're speeding it up. As far as mechanics goes, as long as your elbow is above your shoulder and your hand is outside the elbow, you dramatically reduce your chance of elbow or shoulder problems.
by slimshadty12 on Mar 26, 2008 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably because
a QB isn't expected to throw it 100-120 times a game for 30-35 games a year, plus throwing sessions in between days. 120 pitches for 35 starts is 4,200 pitches. Peyton Manning has thrown the ball 5,405 times in his career dating back to the 1998 season. He attempted 591 passes in 2002, the most for any season of his. A good starting pitcher will surpass 591 pitches in six starts, or just over a month. Kelvim Escobar threw 3,040 pitches last year in 30 starts and has thrown 24,391 pitches since breaking into the big leagues in 1997.
It's worth noting that Escobar has surpassed 3,000 pitches in a season twice in his career. In 2004, he threw 3,428 pitches and only pitched 59 2/3 innings in 2005. In 2007, he surpassed 3,000 pitches again... pattern?
by Inkara1 on Mar 26, 2008 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i understand that
but what about RPs and Closers, they have tons of arm problems as well and don't pitch as much as starters.
I'm thinking pitchers can't repeat their motion as well as QBs can, but i'm just guessing there..
the truth.
by Longhorn on Mar 26, 2008 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's been explained to me
that it is the weight of the ball. Baseballs are much lighter than footballs, which allows you to create tremendous arm speed. This puts a lot of stress on the deccelerator(sp?) muscles in the back of the shoulder, which causes problems there. Also, the torque on your elbow when you throw breaking pitches is something that you don't face throwing a football. Lastly, the split finger pitch grip puts stress on the nerve in your elbow that you don't have when you grip a football.
by badradiorules on Mar 26, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
weight/torque
that makes some sense to me. The grip of a football is also more natural. Musicians face problems if they are not correctly using their arms/wrists/fingers in a natural way.
A working class hero is something to be.
by t ball on Mar 26, 2008 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah...
....that the most accurate way to look at it... imagine if you hard boiled eggs and threw those instead of baseball... you'd be creating more violent actions, with higher torque and less resistence... just thinking about it hurts my elbow...
besides, football passes are structurally much more easy on the joints than any baseball pitch... ask nolan ryan, thats how he warmed up near the end of his career, tossing a football around the outfield....
hurler: [inaudible mumbles...] chris young [mumbles more]... [drops whiskey bottle]
by ivysafety39 on Mar 26, 2008 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also it's been explained to me
the short time span of the rotational forces applied to the pitcher's arm makes their throw one of the fastest of human movement.
by TitaniumJoe on Mar 26, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
marshall
his other problem is he's kind of an arrogant ass who thinks he's smarter than everybody else. someone posted a yahoo article about him where a guy from a major league team said that marshall has a huge chip on his shoulder.
as to success - it's hard to say. marshall's pitchers do show improvement but they rarely break low 90's in velocity. He says he maximizes the talent he gets. Problem is, which talented high school kid are you gonna turn over to Marshall and risk his career before he gets drafted?
plus, those pitchers just look ridiculous
by ab03 on Mar 26, 2008 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sad
Man, that really sucks for him.
But that river of tears has dried for all of us.
by trza on Mar 26, 2008 3:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ouch
hopefully it's not the serious side and it's only season ending not career ending.
Fishing in the rivers of life. All bound for Mu Mu Land.
by Escher on Mar 26, 2008 3:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sooo
Anyone want to take odds on the Rangers signing him to a minor league contract next offseason?
"You know who I want? William Wallace. That's who I'm looking for" - Bengals defensive line coach when asked who he was looking for in the draft
by cgolden on Mar 26, 2008 3:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
x
I wonder how the injury was missed/misdiagnosed up until this point.
by alon91 on Mar 26, 2008 3:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This is another example
of why a pitcher like Cole Hamels should be upset that his team renewed his contract for 0.5 mil. He is being massively undercompensated and pitchers are so vulnerable to career-ending injuries.
by Randy Richardson on Mar 26, 2008 5:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How much should the Phillies have paid him?
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 26, 2008 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's my understanding
that the Phillies didn't offer him any sort of multi-year contract. He's put up nearly two years of very above average performance - he's earned some sort of monetary compensation for that. The Padres locked up Peavy early on with 4yr/14.5 mil. This year, Rick Porcello will make 1.1 mil.
by Randy Richardson on Mar 26, 2008 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're missing Adam's point
He's saying that there's no reason for them to lock him up now if they don't want to. Sure they could sign him to a 13 year deal like they do in the NHL if they wanted to. They could also give him a Peavy deal (or one like Kinsler got as a local reference) but they had no reason to have to do it other than to foster good will with Hamels and set the price of his arb years. Furthermore, Porcello signed a ML deal last year out of the draft, like we did with Borbon and I believe much of his 1.1 mil could simply be considered delayed bonus money.
by TexasTiger on Mar 27, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
Porcello was a bad example, although that number is seperate from his bonus. A better example would be Papelbon - the Sox gave him .775 million. I'm not suggesting that teams break the bank for their overperforming young players, but I think these elite guys like Hamels and Papelbon have earned something above and beyond. Papelbon also has a $25,000 All Star bonus - this sort of incentive seems reasonable.
by Randy Richardson on Mar 27, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously...
I agree that these guys are worth more to their teams than they are paid. The reason that Papelbon is paid 50% more is that he's got an extra year of service time on Hamels I believe. That's just the way the system is set up though. Neither team had any obligation to do any more than renew their contracts other than to keep them happy.
by TexasTiger on Mar 27, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The system
definitely screws over the younger guys. I think the NFL's Performance-Based Pay system is really innovative.
by Randy Richardson on Mar 27, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The NFL
screws many players though since the contracts aren't guaranteed. Plus first rounders get much more guaranteed money than they often deserve. I don't know which system is worse.
by TexasTiger on Mar 27, 2008 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
but the performance based pay bonuses are awarded to players according to a formula in which the most important factor is playing time. Last year each team was alloted 3.08 million and some of the younger players who saw a lot of playing time received somewhere between 100,000 and 200,000 in bonus pay. It is a prudent way to reward those guys that are never likely to get big money.
by Randy Richardson on Mar 27, 2008 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right
If you perform in the NFL, then you'll get paid at least once.
by TexasTiger on Mar 27, 2008 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I were a player
I'd take the MLB program in a heartbeat. Guaranteed contracts, which makes sure a team can't just cut you the minute you are injured. You take less money the first 3 years of your career, but after that, you can start really getting paid.
"Before I leave, I once again condemn the despicable buffoonery of D.J. Cahill." - Huck
by DJCahill on Mar 28, 2008 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If anything
it's an argument that pitchers should get as much value out of pitchers as cheaply as they can, and sign long-term deals as infrequently as possible -- they're ticking time bombs.
by a bebop a rebop on Mar 26, 2008 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rangers
2008 AL West Champs, I can say that now right?
"LBrooks passes away... after the 'miracle' Rangers of '08 win the AL West." -slc ranger
by dstar442005 on Mar 26, 2008 6:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I hate to see a guy facing the possible end of his career
...unless of course, that guy is a Yankee, Red Sock, Cub, or Angel.
I could play politically correct like everybody else, but I'll be brutally honest here: I'm having a hard time feeling sorry for Escobar. In fact, I'm glad to see the mighty Angels house of cards falling down around them.
They're overhyped, overrated, and overpaid - I hope Vlad or K-Rod is the next one to go down.
by lonestarJon on Mar 26, 2008 6:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
lonestar
There is nothing politically correct about not having joy that a person is injured and their career is in the balance. Personally, I find it repulsive when someone is happy that a player is hurt or suggests that they hope certain players will be next.
by Randy Richardson on Mar 26, 2008 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
" Winning doesn't always mean being first,
winning means you are doing better than you have done before"
by coolaid on Mar 26, 2008 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dont understand
-he's not on the team you support
-he loaded
-he's had a long career
lets not pull out the fiddle. most guys never had the success that Kelvim did. There are a lot of people to feel sorry for in the world. rival pitchers who will retire worth millions arent one of them.
.500 or bust!
by Jayslick on Mar 26, 2008 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If a person/player
gets injured than there is not much to say or you can do so I dont really care about that but lonestarjon said
I hope Vlad or K-Rod is the next one to go down
Wished injury on anyone is uncalled for. Its ok to dislike players but wishing injury in taking it one step too far.
" Winning doesn't always mean being first,
winning means you are doing better than you have done before"
by coolaid on Mar 26, 2008 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
personally
i don't like the thought of a young kid having something happen to them such that they can't do the one thing they really wanted to do (and the only thing they know how to do) for a living. i know, they've had a storied life up till now and he has a lot of money but what is he going to do for the rest of his life? I'm sure he'll find something to do - and eventually he would have had to find something to do - but it doesn't make it any less sad.
plus, here's a kid who was on the cusp of being really really good and he'll never know how far he could have gotten.
I dunno, maybe that is too much empathy for a rival ballplayer.
by ab03 on Mar 26, 2008 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*sympathy, not empathy
I always confuse the two
by ab03 on Mar 26, 2008 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what is he going to do for the rest of his life?
finish out his guaranteed contract then 2008:$9M, 2009:$9.5M then smoke doobies, sit on the beach and bang his hot wife...
he doesnt have to find crap to do, he has played 10+ seasons, he hasnt made less than 1.5M since before 2001, and he's got this year and next worth around 10M a season.
sympathize with the little kid in Sudan, dont sympathize with the multimillionaire whose career is winding down and he gets hurt after 10 seasons.
.500 or bust!
by Jayslick on Mar 26, 2008 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
my sympathy isn't finite
and we're not going to agree because your idea of happiness is not doing work. my idea of happiness is excelling at what i do - and i could see that being the case for a ML'er. even if i won the lottery, I would want to do more than just sit around (I'm not the Office Space guy).
now, judging by his quotes, it might be the case that he does not want to play baseball or at least put in the effort to come back. still, it sucks when a door closes on anybody.
and really, why am I going to cheer for someone else's misery? he's never done anythign to me
by ab03 on Mar 26, 2008 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bravo...
sir.
I agree. This is exactly what my buddies and I were talking about the other night. If you could have all the money you could ever need or want but never, ever, achieve your goals and dreams, would you?
It's why I get inspired when I hear some Joe won the lottery but still keeps his job because he doesn't want to stop improving.
by ghostofErikThompson on Mar 26, 2008 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
your assuming
that his dream was to play baseball his whole life and that anything short would be utter failure and mind-bending off time sitting around doing nothing. all im saying is that these guys have no illusions as to the duration of their public career and sports life. You make it sound like this guys life is over, when in fact his life is just beginning. He can write his own destiny and go any direction he wants for the whole rest of his adult life. At the end of his life he look back at his pro career and it will be only a minutia of his life-span. Something else better be more rewarding than just tossing a ball 60'6" of 5/6 of his time on this earth is a waste.
just b/c you spent your whole life dreaming to be a ballplayer doesnt mean he did the same. example, Rusty Greer. Rusty had a great career, he gave everything he had. It ended early and was die to injuries. Does he look like a guy whose life has been ruined by a career cut short?
.500 or bust!
by Jayslick on Mar 26, 2008 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
correction
It ended early and was die due to injuries.
.500 or bust!
by Jayslick on Mar 26, 2008 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i didn't dream of being a ballplayer
and i bet the lion's share of ballplayers wish they had been able to play a few extra years. no doubt, i bet escobar wishes he was able to play past age 32.
by ab03 on Mar 26, 2008 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because he has money
doesn't mean he does not deserve sympathy. He has the money because he could do certain things well that few other can, never mind that it is in sports. The injury will prevent him from doing what he wants to do for a living; I would not wish that course upon anybody.
A second reason is that this loss is also a loss to baseball. He is a good pitcher, and the good thing about watching baseball is to watch good players do their thing. If Arod's hands fell off, there will be less excitement in baseball in general.
Finally, when I watch my teams, I want them to get better and beat good teams. If the entire Mariners team get stricken by Malaria, and the As get lost on their way back from Japan, and the entire Angels pitching staff suffer from finger dermatitis from a newly identified air-borne virus, and the Rangers becomes division champs with only 75 wins, it still doesn't make me feel any better than if they came in last with 75 wins.
by Telegraph on Mar 26, 2008 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
being the best of the bad is not all that great; being the best of great teams is, well, great.
by TitaniumJoe on Mar 26, 2008 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever
Guess I'm repulsive, then. Sorry, but I just really hate the Angels - kinda like Red Sox fans hate the Yankees. Or vice versa.
But seriously, come on, people - don't tell me that there isn't at least a little part of you that is glad to see the Angels having some bad luck for a change. And don't tell me there's nobody here that wouldn't enjoy seeing Vlad on the DL.
by lonestarJon on Mar 26, 2008 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad
That this puts the division on a more level playing field. I'm not glad that another human being has to experience pain (either physical or emotional) to make the division a more level playing field.
And no, it isn't the same thing as being happy when my team wins and another player is emotionally hurt because his team didn't win.
by jwiscarson on Mar 26, 2008 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody Hates the Angels More than I Do
Nobody. But I still don't like to see players get hurt. I've had shoulder problems before, and believe me, it's not comfortable. There are worse things but it sucks.
Plus, he's the same age I am. I make a good living and like my job. If I were forced to retire I'd be unhappy about that. No, I don't make the kind of money Escobar does so the personal finance situation is not the same, but I'd definitely miss working. And I'd imagine if I were a f-ing BASEBALL PLAYER I'd really, really miss it. That's a dream job.
I bet everyone here wishes they were a ballplayer. The difference is some of us admire their ability and are happy that they were lucky enough to get the genes, while others are envious.
by Black Francis on Mar 27, 2008 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a dream job
its your dream job, its likely most of the readers here's dream job too. it was his reality and generally the reality isnt as cool as the dream.
the thing that i think is silly is 85% of the ppl on here wouldnt recognize the guy if they walked right by escobar on the street, but they got their sympathy card goin in full effect. Im pretty sure the guy doesnt want your sympathy anyway.
the sympathy for player x, who is hurt and plays for rival team x is nothing more than an online bit im mostly convinced just to make those who pull the sypathy card look classy, when in reality they dont give 2 craps about the guy and if the guy knocked on their door while reading this, they wouldnt know him from pablo escobar. but jee whiz they sure come off as good ppl online...
.500 or bust!
by Jayslick on Mar 27, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Laughable
My real name is Dustin, and that was my screen name on the old-fashioned LSB. Since when have any of you known be to try to make anything look classy or come off as a "good person" online?
Maybe the reality isn't as cool is the dream. In fact, I'm pretty damn sure it's not. But have you ever talked to a ballplayer or former ballplayer? I haven't talked to many, but a few. and they realize how good they've got it. Yeah the travel schedule is grueling. Yeah the competition and pressure are fierce. It is what it is, but it ain't sitting around in a cubicle all day, either.
I do know what Escobar looks like, but what difference does that make anyway? Maybe they don't want me to, but I can feel bad for a guy who's facing involuntary retirement. Doesn't matter if it's a ballplayer or some guy who builds SUV's at the GM plant in Arlington or a guitarist who loses an arm in a traffic accident. It sucks to have something you love taken away from you. And to get to where Escobar or any other MLB player has gotten, they HAVE to care. They have to work really hard put up with a lot of minor league BS.
Anyway, you can chose to say I'm playing a card or you can think I'm sincere. I don't give a shit.
Good day to you.
by Black Francis on Mar 27, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theres got to be a little perspective here
The only thing escobar cant do it pitch.
He remains rich, relatively healthy, and generally set for life. Why should anyone pretend to be sad for someone who is in a fantastic position for his life, rather he can pitch or not.
Now, being particularly happy or wishing injury on more players is a little beyond that... but you know, its not like the guy is dieing.
by DSheppard on Mar 26, 2008 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not suggesting
that anyone should pretend to feel anything that they don't or have some sort of mandatory period of grieving. As for Escobar, he's an elite performer at what he does, quite possibly it's his passion and derives immense satisfaction from doing it at the level that he has. No, he won't likely be collecting welfare checks, but it's a serious blow to him as a human being.
by Randy Richardson on Mar 26, 2008 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
For the record
This isn't about Escobar personally. Or any of the other Angels players personally. I'm simply not feeling sorry for them because they play for the Angels.
Maybe it's a bit abnormal, but I seriously dislike the Angels. It probably has something to do with the fact that I dislike southern California period. But I'm happy to see the Angels taken down a few pegs, even if it is coming at the cost of freak injuries to their players.
As for Escobar, and how this impacts him personally, this is unfortunate. But I just can't say I want to see him recover and pitch again for the Angels anytime soon.
by lonestarJon on Mar 26, 2008 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
Not to get all high and mighty, but it's always seemed a little morbid and unseemly to be happy when an opponent suffers an injury. You should be happy when you beat them on the field, not when something like this facilitates victory. Not to mention the bad karma associated with wishing harm on another person.
But that river of tears has dried for all of us.
by trza on Mar 27, 2008 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with that
...and all of those who have said it's about your favorite team beating good baseball teams. Remember when the Rangers won the West in the strike-shortened 1994 season? How much satisfaction would we have gotten out of that even if there hadn't been a strike? If any team wins their division with less than 92 or so wins they're extremely suspect. But if they back in there at barely over .500 then it's simply embarrassing.
by Black Francis on Mar 27, 2008 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you have a paralyzing car accident tomorrow
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
by DaheelzCM on Mar 26, 2008 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Geez LSJ
It's one thing to be happy that the Rangers are better relative to their division foes than they were prior to this news. But it is quite another to be happy that it was due to a guy maybe losing his career and to wish injury on someone else.
And BS that he is rich so don't feel sorry for him. LJ, just think if someone told you that you couldn't post on this board anymore that Laird grounding out in game 6 of Spring Training meant he should be euthanized? You would be lost just like Kelvim.
by atlantaranger on Mar 26, 2008 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No offense
But that anology in the last paragraph was one of the worst I've ever heard.
If somebody told me I couldn't post that I hated Laird on here anymore, I wouldn't really care - I have my own blog.
by lonestarJon on Mar 26, 2008 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of your blog
Spell checker and grammar checker are your friends.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
by DaheelzCM on Mar 26, 2008 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Try This Analogy
If a tree falls in the woods, does anyone hear?
Is Like
LSJ posts that Laird sucks on his blog, does anyone know?
Anyway, I like a lot of your comments normally, but your comment there is lame. Happy that a rich guy or poor guy or any guy loses his career is just plain weak. Wishing injury on others and kinda being proud of it is, well, lame.
by atlantaranger on Mar 26, 2008 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again
I'm not happy that Escobar has lost his career. I'm happy that the Angels have lost Escobar.
I know not everyone hates the Angels like I do, but I don't get all this sympathy for Escobar and the Angels on this one. They are our rivals, remember?
by lonestarJon on Mar 26, 2008 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm
Well you said you hate to see a guy possibly lose his career unless he is an Angel. And Escobar is an Angel. So that means you don't hate to see Escobar lose his career. A little transitive property action there. And that is lame (and yes, so is pulling out transitive property).
This horse is now dead. My opinion is that you took it too far. Point made. Carry on.
by atlantaranger on Mar 26, 2008 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok
so then fix the analogy to the logical end that if someone told you you couldn't post on your blog, or be a sportscaster, or watch rangers games. would a boat load of money really change those things? for some it would i guess. For the things I'm impassioned about, it would not.
by ab03 on Mar 26, 2008 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vlad
it has to be Vlad...if K-Rod goes down, Vlad will still do enough damage to keep the rest of the AL West honest...
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on Mar 27, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, JD!
When should we expect the announcement that he has been signed by Jon Daniels?
What "Plan" are we on now?
by Clueless on Mar 26, 2008 9:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Kelvim
Escobar is a 3.2 win pitcher. Saunders is a 1.7 win pitcher. The Angels will lose 1.5 wins if Escobar is lost for the year. Adenhart is also waiting in the wings. Escobar's injury will be a loss, but not as big as many make it out to be. Where this will hurt the Angels is in their depth. Lackey and Weaver are worth more wins, and Garland about the same as Escobar.
vr, Xeifrank
by Xeifrank on Mar 27, 2008 12:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
nice stats
too bad they don't mean anything when the actual games are being played...
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on Mar 27, 2008 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Great stats
Of course they don't, but they do a good job of measuring skill in terms of probable wins. If these measures didn't mean anything then you could just as easily argue that the Royals will win the World Series as the Red Sox or Yankees. The facts are that the Angels have some pretty good replacements for Escobar and Lackey (if he is out for an extended period). They will suffer some, but perhaps not as much as people will have you believe. They will lose a win or two with the loss of Escobar and perhaps some more somewhere down the road when someone else gets hurt and their best replacements are already in the rotation.
vr, Xeifrank
by Xeifrank on Mar 27, 2008 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
problem with your line of thinking
is he not only won 18 games, but he had 25 decisions. he pitched deep into games, took pressure off the bullpen. if K-Rod or Shields go down, man, that team is soooo vulnerable. sure it's an "if," but major league pitching is full of those these days, as you can see magnifying our situation
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on Mar 27, 2008 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
Scot Sheilds starts the year on the DL. He already has gone down.
I have a feeling his heyday is over anyway. Too bad he spent it all setting up for the Angels, when he could have been closing for other clubs in past years.
by lonestarJon on Mar 28, 2008 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow
the Angels are in BAD shape. I hope we get off to a hot start and the Angels open up looking like we did last year...that'd be so fun to witness
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on Mar 29, 2008 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where are you getting your numbers from?
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 27, 2008 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Numbers from...
if you are asking me, I am getting them from taking 2008 ZIPS stats adjusting for park and playing time and calculating each players WAR (Wins Over Replacement). You can read my work here. Scroll down to the WAR post. I did one for about half of the teams, with the most detail on the NL West.
vr, Xeifrank
by Xeifrank on Mar 28, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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