OT: This is nuts!

by SMITTY on Mar 3, 2008 10:41 PM CST Comment 41 comments

This is in San Mateo, CA - sooo depressing...I just traded in my Titan for a '08 Nissan Altima Coupe (32mpg), but now I don't even think THAT is enough!! Should have gone hybrid, even though they look awful....$5.00/gallon by December? Possibly?

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Most-Emailed-Photos/ss/1756/im:/080228/ids_photos_ts/r315812455.jpg#ph otoViewer=/080229/480/ad151e2ab92844c0a74936b89886bac1

0 recs | Comment 41 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

hybrids

do look like shit. My dad just bought a dam Prius but it looks like an okay move next to buying a motorcycle

by meatbonelefty on Mar 3, 2008 10:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Prius

Its the nose of the body - if it didn't slope down so much, the hybrids would probably sell a lot more....

2008 Ranger M.V.P.: Josh "the Natural" Hamilton / 2008 Ranger Pitcher of the Year: Brandon McCarthy (Book it.)

by SMITTY on Mar 3, 2008 10:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I am getting 50 mpg

I don't give a shit what it looks like. Besides, I care much more about the functionality and comfort of the inside of the car than what anyone else thinks about the outside.

A working class hero is something to be.

by t ball on Mar 3, 2008 11:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You have

the leather seats? I was in a cloth seated Prius and thought it was really uncomfortable.

But I agree, driving 200 miles and using 4 gallons of gas is pretty great.

Milton Bradley + Frankie Francisco = team chemistry

by miles on Mar 3, 2008 11:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I had to go with...

the loaded model with leather, GPS, blah blah blah. My wife probably would not have agreed to get it without all that. As t ball says though the inside is very nice and comfortable. I was absolutely amazed when I first sat in the back seat and saw how much room there was.

Oh and that 50 MPG thing is ok too. You guys have fun filling those trucks and SUV's when gas hits $4 a gallon.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Mar 4, 2008 1:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well how fast does the thing go? 50?

does it have a hole in the floorboard like in the flintstones? Yabba Dabba Do!

C J come back! Come back! <---just imagine the raw emotion in "Titanic" when Leonardo watches Kate go under for the last time. Come back!

by LAMuscleFag on Mar 4, 2008 1:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

the electric engine works with the gas engine, so acceleration is very good when you want it. I'm not going to drag race it, of course, but I have no trouble getting up to highway speeds quickly.

It's also just shy of the Camry in cubic feet inside, quite roomy.

A working class hero is something to be.

by t ball on Mar 4, 2008 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hybrids

Look like shit because they have to minimize their size and weight, or their stupid peanut-sized engine won't be able to propel them over 20 MPH.

I'm concerned about the enviroment myself, but I don't really see how hybrid-drving dorks are making much of an impact - if we really want to change things, we've got to get all the cars made before about 1990 off the road, and get big business to get behind everonmentally friendly projects. Until that happens, you can try and sell all the hybrids you want - that doesn't even make a dent in the problem.

"The only thing Gerald Laird can beat me at is number of glazed donuts eaten in 10 minutes" - Miles

by lonestarJon on Mar 4, 2008 12:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

x

you can try and sell all the hybrids you want - that doesn't even make a dent in the problem

Well that's of course just plain wrong.

When you buy a Prius instead of some gratuitously-ginormous truck or SUV (one with a, um... peanut-crate-sized engine?) then you are exercising your power as a consumer, telling increasingly desperate car companies that if they want your money, they better pour a crapload of R&D money into developing smarter, lighter, cleaner, more efficient vehicles. From there more marketing dollars go into this fast-growing segment, consumer awareness grows, and the entire industry focus begins to shifts.

It doesn't happen overnight, but to say that hybrid cars "don't make a dent" is plain wrong and seems like an indefensible position, really.

by alon91 on Mar 4, 2008 2:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, you would be correct

If hybrids where selling like hotcakes, and where being sucessfully sold across the country, and in all regions - but that's not really the case, at least not to my knowledge. That's not to say the don't sell some of them, and hollywood doesn't try to promote them, but you don't actually see too many of the out on the street (at least not in SoCal). Reason being, is that most people actually want and need a CAR, not a golf-cart with sheetmetal attached (and because around here, you gotta be able to go fast enough to drive on a freeway).

Hybrid's are nice, but they strike me as a guilt-releiver for the eviro-nuts: they buy a hybrid and think (with a healthy shot of self-rightiousness): "I've just struck a blow for the enviroment! I'm so cool!" Which, might be true in some small personal sense... but not in the big picture. In the big picture, we need to start lobbying for enviromentally-friendly alternatives, and get enviromentally friendly politicians and business people to step up. That's what will make the difference in cleaning up the enviroment - not trying to market hybrids, which, as far as I can see, are nothing more than a yuppie-pride deal.

"The only thing Gerald Laird can beat me at is number of glazed donuts eaten in 10 minutes" - Miles

by lonestarJon on Mar 4, 2008 3:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

x

I live in San Francisco. Admittedly it's about as liberal a place as you're going to find, but regardless, it's impossible to drive for much more than a few minutes without seeing a Prius or Civic Hybrid. They are quite literally everywhere.

And you live in SoCal? If so then I'm surprised, because when I visited in mid 2007 I spotted them very regularly on the freeways.

Speaking of which, on that trip I was lucky enough to rent a Prius. From your criticism, I have to guess that you've never driven one, because the car was FAR from a golf-cart. It was an extremely capable car, very zippy, and handled well. I'm generally among the fastest drivers on the road, almost always in the left-most lane of freeways here. The Prius was doing 85-90 MPH without batting an eyelash. I wasn't getting anything near 50 MPG at that point, but I was still doing better than virtually every other car I was zipping by. Not to mention that the car was comfortable and very modern and was just generally fun to drive.

Believe me: if the car was crap, I'd call it on it and say hybrids are not ready for prime-time. That's just not the case.

I'd urge you to rent a Prius for a weekend or on your next business trip. While I'm not a car-freak, I can tell when a car is not driveable. The Prius is 100% as capable as my Mazda3 or any other similar conventional-engine car out there.

With all that being said, I absolutely agree that hybrids are not the silver bullet here (not that I ever suggested that before). Politicians are easily the biggest factor here. Collectively they are starting to make the environment a priority as it becomes a bigger issue for their constituencies. There's much work to be done, but there's also some encouraging things happening.

Companies are also improving, sometimes as a marketing/positioning effort, oftentimes because of changing regulations, and once in a while because management somehow collectively decides that it's the right thing to do. Still, when it comes to profit-maximizing corporations, the bottom line is, well, the bottom line, and that's where my original point about your power as a consumer comes in.

by alon91 on Mar 4, 2008 4:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

also

Also, just so we have the numbers: in January 2008, 1 in 50 new cars purchased in the US was a hybrid. That post also points out that hybrid sales were up 27% year-on-year, compared to a 2.3% drop in total passenger car sales and 6.1% drop in light truck sales during the same period.

That would suggest that hybrid vehicles are selling like pancakes or some other type of cakes, possibly flat, and usually warm. Also there's this headline that states that that Toyota Prius and Camry Hybrid ARE Selling like Hotcakes, so there's that to consider.

by alon91 on Mar 4, 2008 4:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

As far as I know

the only reason that they don't sell more Prius is they don't manufacture more Prius.

Unlike the big Detroit steel that they can't give away without heavy incentives, the Prius is occasionally getting a premium over MSRP in some markets.

"We should have bombed it (Auschwitz)"-President Bush

by DJCahill on Mar 4, 2008 5:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Manufacture of Hybrids...

The Japanese motor companies try and match the demand for their products using a lean system of production. Unlike the American manufactures that are transitioning to a lean system from their past mass production. So theoretically the number of hybrids should meet the demand for automobile. A better way to notice a change in demand for hybrids would be to look at the number of hybrids on a dealership's lot vs the number traditional gas engine. Even in TX you can see this ratio growing.

On a side note, I was recently up in Pontiac, MI and it was pretty depressing to see all the empty parking lots of the assembly plants and warehouses. GM has recently released information on a concept fuel-cell car. I believe this is the optimal solution though probably the most costly, requiring a change in infrastructure nationally to hydrogen.

by Ph3 on Mar 4, 2008 9:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually though,

no one has the flexibility to instantaneously match more demand then you have capacity for. There is lead time involved in buying Dies, Castings, etc. You rely on some reasonable estimates on what demand is going to be and go from there.

I don't know anyone currently in the hybrid market, but a year or so ago, a friend was looking, and you had to pay a premium over MSRP to get on a waiting list to get one.

As far as American companies, they have been giving lip service to going to lean production since the '80s at least. I'll believe it when I see it.

"We should have bombed it (Auschwitz)"-President Bush

by DJCahill on Mar 4, 2008 10:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Demand...

Yes, demand forecasting is always a dark art. But regardless of the capacity constraint its easy to see that demand for hybrids has grown.

by Ph3 on Mar 4, 2008 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No question,

and the biggest constraint to more hybrid sales was manufacturing capacity, not lack of market demand.

"We should have bombed it (Auschwitz)"-President Bush

by DJCahill on Mar 4, 2008 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ummm...

not that I'm weighing in on hybrid vs. non-hybrid here, but this thinking can be used to prove the other side, too. Namely, in a free market, buying the poor products will cause companies to continue to put out poor products. As an example, see the US auto industry getting owned over the last 10-15 years.

You mean to tell me they would have dragged their feet as much on new design as they did if everyone just chose the best product instead of trying to be patriotic with their purchases?

by GhettoBear04 on Mar 4, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I traded in

my 04 Titan for an 08 a few months back. Luckily, I don't drive all that much until baseball season. Then I make the 3 hour trip atleast 5-6 times a year to see some Ranger games.

The Texas Rangers rounded the bases at a dizzying pace

by fsujon on Mar 3, 2008 10:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Titan

Yup - traded in the 04 4-dr crew cab with 83K miles on it...got $11,250 for it! Waaaaaay over blue book - how'd you do?? So many trucks/SUV's are being brought in now, its crazy...

2008 Ranger M.V.P.: Josh "the Natural" Hamilton / 2008 Ranger Pitcher of the Year: Brandon McCarthy (Book it.)

by SMITTY on Mar 3, 2008 10:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Had

a loaded 04 Le with eveything but nav and it only had about 30k. Got 21,000 for it last Sep.

I downgraded to a 4x2 and got rid of dvd, but added the nav. Cost me 31,200 with an msrp of like 38,800.

Love it regardless of 13-14 mpg in the city.

The Texas Rangers rounded the bases at a dizzying pace

by fsujon on Mar 3, 2008 11:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Vespas for everyone!!!

I saw a guy driving around on a moped the other day and caught myself staring off into space, wistfully daydreaming about his MPG.

Look out, March. February is engorged and it's poking into you!

by thedirkatron on Mar 3, 2008 10:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Lol...

Didn't Hurley Hurler say he had a F-350?

Lmao

Milton Bradley + Frankie Francisco = team chemistry

by miles on Mar 3, 2008 10:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

To bad

we don't have battery powered cars...

To bad the government F-ed that up...

Milton Bradley + Frankie Francisco = team chemistry

by miles on Mar 3, 2008 10:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Only a moron in san mateo

is paying THAT price.

It is expensive out here but still under $3.60 for unleaded everywhere I've seen (except this one whack station in palo alto at $3.85)

by PatrickWalz on Mar 3, 2008 10:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Its

only a tad over 3.00 here in Texarkana.

The Texas Rangers rounded the bases at a dizzying pace

by fsujon on Mar 3, 2008 11:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

still $2.99 here in Salt Lake, but that won't last long. Always goes up in the summer.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Mar 4, 2008 1:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

gas prices

supply is up, demand declined over the last quarter and the damn commodities market continues to escalate oil prices.

its just a rough time right now

by ab03 on Mar 4, 2008 1:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

gas prices

are up because bush and his neocone friends are making big money off this stuff. does anyone find it funny that the first big contract rewarded in the iraq war went to halliburton? (which i might add dick cheney used to be president of or something along those lines)

wake up people!! pretty soon gas will be over 5 dollars! im also out here in southern cal and gas is creeping up to near 4 dollars pretty fast. 1 month ago gas was 2.93 and now it's 3.85 in some places.

Free Palestine!

by The Ahmad on Mar 4, 2008 2:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

-1

2/26/08 R.I.P. The BGL ... out.

by Chase Irwin on Mar 4, 2008 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They're not booing...

They saying stuuuuuuuuuuuuupid.

by GhettoBear04 on Mar 4, 2008 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

dont care

all my cars get 15mpg or worse. screw gas mileage

by kumar75150 on Mar 4, 2008 2:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

x

I love my truck. vrooooooooom! Just listen to how loud it is. Now, sure: it's impractical, expensive, insensible, borderline-irresponsible. But I like it, and this is AMERICA, and why don't you just keep that whole "faculty of thinking and reasoning" thing to yourself?

</sarcasm>

by alon91 on Mar 4, 2008 2:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

How do you know...

if a truck is impractical for someone?

And, as much as I would like to see our cars/trucks get better gas mileage, I'd much rather see China open up less than 2000 coal plants in the next 12 years. Especially when organizations in this country make it hard for TXU to start up 12 more.

I'm not for coal power, but I am for an equal playing field.

by GhettoBear04 on Mar 4, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

x

I'm generalizing, obviously. This is anecdotal, but I think it's generally agreed that the vast majority of light truck/SUV are not bought for functionality. Big cars were (still are in some places) cool and people bought them because they just liked it. People who don't need big cars really shouldn't buy them because there are externalities that we all end up paying for.

And yes, I absolutely agree that China is enemy #1 to the environment, mostly because they are currently trending in the absolutely wrong direction: massively increasing pollution with no end in sight. At least in the US, awareness is growing exponentially.

Here's a long, great article about pollution in china.

by alon91 on Mar 4, 2008 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

x

Well it's undeniable that it COULD be really neat if gas prices suddenly went to like $8/gallon, like it is in much of the rest of the world.

People would buy more efficient cars, would drive less, would carpool more, lessening congestion and time wasted, reducing pollution, possibly spurring improvements to public transport which further accelerate the above benefits along with other social benefits that come with it. Less of a reliance on foreign oil keeps money in the country...

But sadly, I think it's more likely that everyone would bitch about the prices for a week, then get used to it and go back to life as normal.

by alon91 on Mar 4, 2008 2:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Doh!

QUESTION: What's your advice to the average American who is hurting now -- facing the prospect of $4 a gallon gasoline, a lot of people facing -

BUSH: Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4 a gallon gas?

QUESTION: A number of analysts are predicting $4 a gallon gasoline this spring when they reformulate.

BUSH: That's interesting. I hadn't heard that.

** And then a few minutes later, in the same press conference, when asked about fundraising for his presidential library***

QUESTION: Any restrictions on who can give? Will you take foreign money for this?

BUSH: Yes, probably take some foreign money, but don't know yet. We just haven't -- we just announced the deal. And I, frankly, have been focused elsewhere, LIKE ON GASOLINE PRICES and, you know, my trip to Africa, and haven't seen the fund-raising strategy yet. And so, the answer to your question is really I can't answer your questions well.

---- February 27, 2008

by mjh on Mar 4, 2008 6:54 AM CST reply actions 0 recs