Sunday morning stuff
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 13, 2008 9:20 AM CDT
58 comments
Well, that sucked. An ugly 4-1 loss that felt more like 10-1, featuring a masterful performance by Roy Halladay and some more problematic defense by the Rangers.
Evan Grant's game story this morning rips the team for its poor defensive showing in the first two weeks, and Grant says Ron Washington had a clubhouse meeting after the game to talk about the problems. Michael Young, Ian Kinsler, and Hank Blalock met together afterwards, as well.
Grant also touched on the defensive problems in a blog post last night, but I think the bigger problem here is that the left side of the infield just isn't very good, defensively. Ian Kinsler has been a solid defensive player throughout his career, and was outstanding after coming off the d.l. last season (which gave him a chance to work on, and get more comfortable with, the changes to his footwork Washington had him incorporate), but Young and Blalock just aren't good defensively, and no amount of team meetings is going to change that. And when you've got a low-K sinkerballer like Luis Mendoza going, that's going to present problems.
And although Mendoza gave up just 1 earned run in 5 innings, his 2008 debut has to be considered mildly disappointing. Allowing 8 hits, 3 walks, and 2 HBPs in 5 innings isn't going to cut it, and it was only by getting some DPs and working out of some jams that Mendoza was able to keep the game as close as it was.
Someone has to go down to make room for Scott Feldman today...and apparently the options are optioning Josh Rupe or Kaz Fukumori, putting Dustin Nippert on waivers, or putting Jamey Wright on the d.l. My guess is that Rupe heads down.
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How would you change the infield
to make up for Young's/Blalock's defensive shortcomings? Move Young to third, and do what with Hank?
by jwiscarson on Apr 13, 2008 9:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hank
I think he gets dealt in the next 10 months or so.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 13, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh.
His value could scarcely be lower. Injury-prone, not good defensively. The bat's the only thing, and...yeah. At least he doesn't have FOTF's contract.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Apr 13, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
If he has a good 2008, he'll have some value.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 13, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
MY at 3rd
is he really any better there? seems to me he has become Catalanotto. Not good enough for the infield, so you just stick him out there in left.
by Dirk Diggler on Apr 13, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
MY's problem at SS is he just doesn't have the range. That could be solved by putting him at 3rd.
I'm ok with 3B, if Hank is dealt, or LF. I just don't know if he will be ok with switching positions again. I'm also not sure Wash/JD will force him to do so.
The other question remains if MY moves then who plays SS? There are no other options for the next couple years until Andrus is ready unless the Rangers make a deal. I certainly don't want them picking up someone else who will block Andrus.
Conclusion is we are stuck with MY at SS until probably 2010 imo. They definitely won't have him switch positions in the middle of the year. I suppose if we do deal Blalock before next year then they could move him to 3rd and sign someone to play SS but I just don't see either of those things happening.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Apr 13, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duran
The other question remains if MY moves then who plays SS? There are no other options for the next couple years until Andrus is ready unless the Rangers make a deal
I think Andrus may be ready soon that that. Maybe by opening day next year.
In the meantime, we could always brin up Duran to play 2B, move Kinsler to SS, and move, say, Youn and Catalanotto to the Dodgers for Kemp and one of their pitching prospects. Phillies and Red Sox (w/Lowell out) are a couple more contender type teams who could improve their current 3B situation with an "established veteran star" like the FOF.
by Brian Hayes on Apr 13, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't move Kinsler to shortstop
I don't see that that makes sense long-term. He's not going to stay there, and probably isn't going to be that much better than Young at that position anyway.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 13, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good one.
"Hmn [sic] ... pehaps [sic] I've said too much..." - LSJesus
by Chase Irwin on Apr 13, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You gotta move My to 3rd
and Kins to LF.
the truth.
by Longhorn on Apr 13, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do not believe...
...Kinsler is a defensive liability at 2B.
Before I'd move him to LF, I'd just trade him.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 13, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, i do
He'll be our best LF right now offensively (i hope) and you have a spot at 2B where we have a top prospect. Shoot, i just want to see good defense, i'd rather see Meyer there not booting balls left and right...
the truth.
by Longhorn on Apr 13, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Byrd and Murphy
have both been good in LF
by Randy Richardson on Apr 13, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Murphy...
should be the everyday LFer right now. I was one of the guys who thought he would just be a 4th OFer. He has proved me wrong so far and should (and has been) be rewarded with everyday playing time. He has been the biggest plus of all the position players so far this year imo. We expected Hamilton to be good and he has delivered as well.
Byrd's defense is good, hopefully he finds his stroke at the plate and the OF options will look pretty good if he does.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Apr 13, 2008 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Going forward,
I wouldn't be surprised if, on days that Bradley DHs against a RHP, Cat doesn't play. His bat is too weak to compensate for his poor defense right now.
by Randy Richardson on Apr 13, 2008 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duran
I don't think he's considered an upgrade over Kinsler, defensively.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 13, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you just care about good defense
Replace Kinsler with Nick Punto
by Telegraph on Apr 13, 2008 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What happened to Ben's post?
Were the shots at Hindman just too much for the blog?
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
by DaheelzCM on Apr 13, 2008 9:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Armando Galarraga
starting for Detroit today instead of Dontrelle.
by Dirk Diggler on Apr 13, 2008 9:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Fukumori should be the one
to be sent down. Lets see how big of an ego JD has. If he sends Fukumori down he is in some ways admitting it was a bad signing.
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by RangerMad on Apr 13, 2008 10:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Concur...
Rupe deserves to stay. But I have a feeling he's the one who will be sent down.
Fuku has not looked good at all like many of us predicted after his #'s in Japan and now being in a better league. Let him go down to AAA and see what he can do there.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Apr 13, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess
But I don't see what it has to do with JD's ego. It's not like we gave up anything. It's one thing if we send Mccarthy down, but Fukumori is just a guy who we all hope will do well, but hasn't in an extremely limited amount of playing time. If we send him down, I don't think it's an indicator that JD can't identify talent.
by brettgardner on Apr 13, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
I was agreeing more with the notion that Fuku should be the one to go down. I think JD has done a good job but I didn't like the Fuku signing. I would much rather see Wes called back up after today when Feldman is sent back down. I don't really think sending Fuku down or keeping him has much to do with JD's ego.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Apr 13, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Sorry, I was just responding to you and RangerMad at the same time. Didn't mean to misrepresent your opinion.
by brettgardner on Apr 13, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fukumori going down
Good call JD. He was signed to be an experienced setup man in the pen. I don't think JD ever thought he would struggle to the point of being sent down to AAA. It is too early to call this a bad signing, but, it doesn't look good. I am glad Rupe is staying.
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by RangerMad on Apr 13, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yesterday's Errors
Range factor had some bearing on yesterdays errors by MY, but, really, don't you think that concentration and confidence were just as important? They seem to have the yips as much as anything else. So, condemning the LSOTI shortcomings, while essentially true, is not really the point in discussing their recent ragged play. Even their low abilities don't account for the sloppy results we are seeing right now.
by mcgee48c on Apr 13, 2008 10:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't mind the lack of range
until there is someone else that is ready to take their position. But, they need to make the plays that they can get to. Right now they are not.
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by RangerMad on Apr 13, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not trying to start a fight
But if we're going to point out his gems, we should also note his steamers. Chris Young - 3 IP 7R 6ER 2HR.
What happened to my old signature?
by WyoRanger on Apr 13, 2008 11:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Saturday's game
I thought Mendoza was decent. He got off to a shaky start (putting his hand to his mouth on the mound) walking two and giving up his only earned run in the 1st. Nothing exceptional - but he didn't embarrass himself either. He also gave the team 5 IP in this long stretch without a day off.
I can't remember the last time the fans booed Young/Blalock so badly. I think it was a good reality check for them. While neither of them will be dedicating gold gloves to Wash, they'll manage to get back to being adequate defenders.
Cat could very well see less playing time, especially if yesterday was the beginning of Byrd breaking out of his slump.
by Randy Richardson on Apr 13, 2008 11:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Any reason for
Playing Hamilton in RF and Byrd in CF? I thought Hamilton was the superior defender.
White Women!
by nikpin on Apr 13, 2008 11:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
kinda like a half day off i suppose
the truth.
by Longhorn on Apr 13, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh...
then just DH him. I think Hamilton should just play CF if he is playing in the field. Byrd should have been in RF yesterday, but it's not that big of a deal I guess.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Apr 13, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
What plays did Byrd not make yesterday that Hamilton would have? I would rather have Hamilton in the lineup 140-150 games this year rather than 120-130. If that means occasionally playing RF thats cool with me.
by bigsteve on Apr 13, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i can think of one that was iffy
aaron hill double. but the point is why bother. it is barely less running in RF than CF - especially with a GB pitcher
scap load or die
by ab03 on Apr 13, 2008 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: Gabe Kapler on fire
hit his 4th home run today off of Oliver Perez. somebody explain that.
scap load or die
by ab03 on Apr 13, 2008 12:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He has...
sold his soul to the devil.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Apr 13, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he went back to A ball
and worked on his mechanics..
Grieve: The Yanks have struggled so far. - Lewin: Yeah, cry me a bag of money.
by WhipSmart on Apr 13, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Took Johan deep yesterday, IIRC.
"Hmn [sic] ... pehaps [sic] I've said too much..." - LSJesus
by Chase Irwin on Apr 13, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kinsler's defense
Adam, I rarely disagree with anything you write these days, but I'm baffled by your opinion of Kinsler's defense. I realize he went through a period of success late last year, but he has terrible defensive instincts. I've attended between 10 and 12 spring training games over the past 2 years and I'm always shocked during infield practice and in games by how awkwardly he plays bounces. He seems not to read the spin on the ball-- it's almost as if he has depth perception problems. He never looks comfortable. I agree that his range is fine, but there's a reason that his error totals are astounding. If he doesn't improve by the all star break, I think left field should definitely be considered.
by hperl345 on Apr 13, 2008 12:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Kinsler
I know there are all sorts of fielding metrics out there, but The Fielding Bible thought Kinsler was good last year.
It seems to me that his main problem is that he losses focus and fails to make as many of the routine plays as he should.
by Randy Richardson on Apr 13, 2008 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
link
Kinsler is under "plus/minus" and then "2007 plus/minus leaders"
by Randy Richardson on Apr 13, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"fails to make many routine plays"
In my opinion, that is just another way to say "poor fielder".
I'm not as down on Kinsler as many here, but I find it strange that people defend him by saying, "he just loses focus and doesn't make routine plays" or something along those lines.
Pedro: "I wasn't cockfighting, I just have a wide stance."
by tricer on Apr 13, 2008 1:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"he just loses focus and doesn't make routine plays"
... eerily similar to comments made about his predecessor at the position.
by hperl345 on Apr 13, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
who are the
two of you "quoting"?
by Randy Richardson on Apr 13, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i said it for one
and i think adam is intimating that. and yes, I do think it is the same as soriano but I think kinsler shows better range than soriano.
i also think this is just a bad streak for the IF. this isn't the norm for any of these players. I don't remember Michael Young being this bad at putting a glove on a ball that was in his range or screwing up the throws.
scap load or die
by ab03 on Apr 13, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you
you said above: "It seems to me that his main problem is that he losses focus and fails to make as many of the routine plays as he should."
Forget that you wrote that?
Pedro: "I wasn't cockfighting, I just have a wide stance."
by tricer on Apr 13, 2008 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I clearly remember what I wrote
If you want to have an honest debate you should have the courtesy to quote people correctly.
You initially quoted me as saying, "fails to make many routine plays" .
That means something entirely different than what I wrote: "fails to make as many of the routine plays as he should."
by Randy Richardson on Apr 13, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it depends
If a guy makes more errors than usual, particularly on routine plays, but gets to more balls than the average fielder, then he's not necessarily a poor fielder.
If Kinsler makes 10 errors more than the average 2B, but makes plays on 20 balls the average 2B wouldn't, it is a net gain.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 13, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point
but, and just playing devil's advocate here, what about missing catches on throws to 2nd on steals or not covering bases or backing up plays? How many runs can be lost with those 'routine' plays?
I agree with you that Kinsler is not a burden defensively for this team overall, just pointing out that there are other ways a player can make mistakes other than errors on groundballs.
Grieve: The Yanks have struggled so far. - Lewin: Yeah, cry me a bag of money.
by WhipSmart on Apr 13, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't defend him for that
But teaching a guy to make routine plays better is sure a whole lot easier than to teach him to have range
by Telegraph on Apr 13, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
My concern is that last year's stretch of good play was an aberration. I felt like he looked like his old (poor-defense playing) self when he showed up to spring training this year. Maybe Washington works with him again this year and Kinsler gets his groove back by July, like he did last year, but on a team that wants to win from day 1, that's not a real comforting plan.
-- I was quoting Tricer's post-- just seems to be the general sentiment.
by hperl345 on Apr 13, 2008 1:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Did Adam just say "Ian Kinsler has been a solid defensive player throughout his career"?
Really?
I know errors aren't the be-all and end-all when it comes to judging a players defensive ability, but they do need to be taken into consideration.
Norm Hitzges had a segment on this the other day: Since the start of 2006, Kinsler has made 38 errors in 260 games at 2nd base.
That's awful. Even Robinson Cano (25 errors in 289 games since the start of 2006) laughs at that.
Heck, in Soriano's final 2 seasons at 2nd base he made 44 errors in 295 games. That's about the same pace Ian is on.
I know there are about 20 different formulas that can be used to determine a player's defensive value. Errors aren't everything, I am aware. But they can't be ignored, either.
by Hard8 on Apr 13, 2008 7:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Oddly enough
Kinsler was fairly error free the 2nd half of the season. I think he had something like 14-15 before the break, and 2-3 afterwards.
I was hoping that we would see the post ASB kinsler, but he is starting out as poorly as he did last year, or as poorly as Soriano ever was for the Rangers.
"Before I leave, I once again condemn the despicable buffoonery of D.J. Cahill." - Huck
by DJCahill on Apr 14, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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