It's early but man I was wrong...
by slimshadty12 on Apr 15, 2008 9:07 AM CDT
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I thought it would be worth it to pursue Andruw Jones for the discount he'd be at. Well:
He's slugging .182 after creaming a single yesterday and collecting his 2nd rbi of the season yesterday.
I think it would be a decent bet that Hamilton outperforms Jones and Rowand this year. Maybe Hunter.
So I guess the point of this thread is to remind people of contracts like Zito/Hunter etc. that we avoided by accident and that the fact that we don't have another albatross of a contract makes Hamilton that much more valuable and easier to see Volquez tear it up.
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echoed
i was definitely wrong as well. what happened to this guy?
by clark on Apr 15, 2008 9:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
hate to bring this up
But could his sudden drop in production be do to a recent crackdown on PEDs?
by cgolden on Apr 15, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd link it more to the recent trend
of him being fat.
"Sabean did a good job on selling high on Liriano." Excel Hearts Choi
by thedirkatron on Apr 15, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Concur
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Apr 15, 2008 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Hmn [sic] ... pehaps [sic] I've said too much..." - LSJesus
by Chase Irwin on Apr 15, 2008 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Accident
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t remember us losing the Zito sweepstakes being an accident. I think we choose to stick to our reasonable offer and got outbid by SF. Did Hunter take less money to go to LAAAAA or was that the best offer?
by Jack Nicholson 1974 on Apr 15, 2008 9:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Both times
Rangers had a set limit which the signing team exceeded. Not by accident that we didn’t get them, but seemingly lucky.
by brettgardner on Apr 15, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LAA Outbid Everyone
....by like $10 million or something for Hunter. How’s that $50 million GMJ contract working out for them too? Idiots.
by FuturePants on Apr 15, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My favorite part
was when Hunter said he would have signed with LAAAAAAA for a lot less money.
by Inkara1 on Apr 15, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My favorite part
was right before Thanksgiving when he said he would absolutely not sign with anyone over the Thanksgiving holidays and would take time off with his family. That lasted until LAA and their cash came calling and he signed Thanksgiving morning with them. Nothing like a Thanksgiving Day with your agent and the Angels’ team president and/or GM. Forget family on a holiday like Thanksgiving!
by FuturePants on Apr 15, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When I said accident...
I meant we had intentions of signing them it just didn’t work out. I guess unlucky (or now looking back lucky) would have been better word choice.
by slimshadty12 on Apr 15, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah im surprised
I was fine with anywhere from a 1-2 year contract to a longer 4-5 year one for him.. maybe that would have been a mistake =)
still time for him to turn it around though obviously.
Gerald Laird is my hero.
by DSheppard on Apr 15, 2008 10:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The common thread with all of these guys
is that Zito, GMJ, Hunter and Jones had serious question marks. There were good reasons with each of them to suspect that their recent performance would not continue through a long-term contract. There are always guys like this – some fail spectacularly: Kris Benson, Chan Ho Park, and just about every Mariners FA are just a few examples. Other FA’s with big ????s do quite well with their new team: Troy Glaus, Gil Meche, and Soriano were big money for high risk guys that paid off in recent years.
JD (or Hicks) have the perfect attitude towards these players. Teams like Texas can’t afford to never sign anyone with a question mark. Great players with no question marks usually go to Boston and New York. But when players have additional risk, their value HAS to be discounted. Sure Zito could put up $100 million contract numbers. But he could also put up DFA numbers. It makes no sense to drink the Boras cool-aid and pay for the “best case scenario” value. JD offered a fair value in all of these cases – Boras was just able to extract best case scenario value for them elsewhere.
JD is a very good GM and Hicks is not a bad owner. I hope that the failure of the Zitos and Joneses will get his critics to open their eyes and realize that the Rangers have played the FA market the past few years quite well.
by JBImaknee on Apr 15, 2008 11:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm...
Great players with no question marks usually go to Boston and New York.
Who was the last big time, no-question-mark FA to go to NY or Boston? Beltran?
The reality is that there a very, very few no-question-mark FA’s at all, and they don’t usually go to Boston or NY, they usually go wherever they get offered the most money. (See: ARod, Vladdy, ect.)
"Sabean did a good job on selling high on Liriano." Excel Hearts Choi
by thedirkatron on Apr 15, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
ARod was a FA this past off season, thanks to his opt-out hijinks. Of course, he then realized that the only team that would pay him his true value was the Yankees
I agree – there are not very many no-question guys. Beltran probably the most recent player portreyed that way, though he was overrated coming off that contract year. Vlad from a few years before – and he specifically did not want to play in a big market. Hicks had to money-whip ARod to keep him from the Mets the first time around. That same year, Manny Ramirez signed with Boston. People are already trying to guess how many pinstripes will be on Teixeira’s uniform, who many consider to be the next super FA name (though I suspect he’ll go to Baltimore)
Not to mention that uber free agents-to-be, like Johan Santana and Pedro Martinez (to Boston in ‘98) – the two closest things to no-question mark pitchers in the last decade – are more likely to go to Boston, NYY or NYM (and then get extended) than anywhere else.
To be fair, I did say “usually,” not always.
by JBImaknee on Apr 15, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HUGE question marks on both
Huge.
"Sabean did a good job on selling high on Liriano." Excel Hearts Choi
by thedirkatron on Apr 15, 2008 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adam called it
He thought Giambi was a bad a sign when the deal was made. I only remember that because it’s one of the few times he’s been right.
by chase1971 on Apr 15, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
He was linked to ‘roids pretty heavy, iirc. That’s a question mark.
And there were definite questions about how he would age, roids or no roids.
"Sabean did a good job on selling high on Liriano." Excel Hearts Choi
by thedirkatron on Apr 15, 2008 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Giambi's reputation
for steroids and falling production and health were all huge question marks at the time of signing.
by FuturePants on Apr 15, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I wanted Andruw on a short term contract too, but if you’re going to look at his early season stats and declare him a failure, wouldn’t you have to look look at Torii Hunter (.294/.357/.549/.906, 4hr) as a huge success?
"Sabean did a good job on selling high on Liriano." Excel Hearts Choi
by thedirkatron on Apr 15, 2008 11:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Come back to me
In about a month when a 3 game ghot or cold streak doesn’t affect your numbers so much. I get tired hearing about a guy sucking or being great after 2 weeks of baseball. The sample size is too small to make those determinations generally. If he goes 3-5 the next 3 days his average would be up to a normal level and this post would be obsolete.
by bigsteve on Apr 15, 2008 11:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
to be fair
Andruw was almost Gerald Laird awful last season.
by JBImaknee on Apr 15, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
My comment was more of a generalization than anything. Guys with proven track records will generally get back to that level. Only thing that means is their cold stretch to start the season means a hot streak sometime later in the year. But I hate hearing about Player A who has been a good player for X number of years sucks all of a sudden because he is hitting .150 the first 2 weeks of the season.
In this case I think Jones will do a little better than last year but nowhere near his career norms or best years.
by bigsteve on Apr 15, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Notice I did throw in a "I know it's early"
I realize the sample is small but Jones is definitely not right. Doesn’t help that he prob was overweight last year and came to camp 10 pounds heavier. He’ll prob still get his 20 hrs but he’s probably not going to top a .240 average.
by slimshadty12 on Apr 15, 2008 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ive been a reds fan all my life
and loved watched josh hamilton play, and was heart broken to see him go. Just wanted to drop in and let you guys know what you got, a five tool player with a great character that you can build your team around. Good luck to you guys in the AL ill be cheering for Hamilton and the rangers, just until we meet you guys in the World Series (i can dream can’t i?)
"Never perfect but perfectly forgiven." -Petra
by shortstopv2 on Apr 16, 2008 1:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
OT - how do you guys put up with Dusty Baker?
Reds/Rangers sounds like a good world series… but I got a feeling if that ever happens, both teams will have different managers.
by lonestarJon on Apr 16, 2008 3:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
after you’ve had to put up with jerry narron and pete mccainin, anything different is welcome. For instance ask an reds fan about the pinch hit juan castro for josh hamilton debacle and you can see why we tolerate baker.
"Never perfect but perfectly forgiven." -Petra
by shortstopv2 on Apr 16, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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