On Max Ramirez

by Adam J. Morris on Apr 25, 2008 10:19 AM CDT

In the comments to this morning's post, a couple of folks mentioned Max Ramirez as someone who should be up here soon as part of the rebuilding.

I think we should tap the brakes a little bit on that...Ramirez is off to a great start, but he's had all of 18 games above high-A. And he's a catcher, which is problematic, given that one of the other guys everyone wants up right now is Jarrod Saltalamacchia.

You could try putting Ramirez at 1B, I guess, but that's a short-term solution, since Chris Davis will likely be up here by September. And you don't want to move Ramirez off of catcher unless you absolutely have to.

Let's give Ramirez some more time at AA, and if he keeps hitting close to what he is now, he'll be in Oklahoma soon enough, and will probably get a September call up. And that's a reasonable time-line.

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I don't think there are enough ABs

to break in both Salty and MaxRam. Even assuming you move Laird to backup, there just aren’t enough ABs to go around, unless you move someone (MaxRam?) to 1B.

"Before I leave, I once again condemn the despicable buffoonery of D.J. Cahill." - Huck

by DJCahill on Apr 25, 2008 10:36 AM CDT 0 recs

Max to 1B

Just doesn’t make sense. Davis has pure momentum at the position, unless the org is thinking of moving him back to 3B…no sign of that, so far.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Apr 25, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up 0 recs

1B is normally

the dumping ground for those with no defensive skills. If not 1B, LF.

"Before I leave, I once again condemn the despicable buffoonery of D.J. Cahill." - Huck

by DJCahill on Apr 25, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up 0 recs

Yet few current Rangers can play defense wherever they are

and the two guys we have at 1b can’t play defense there either.

by JBImaknee on Apr 25, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up 0 recs

Has anyone seen Max

play at Frisco? The only roster data I can find lists him as 5’ 11” and 175 pounds. This seems a little light for the power numbers he is putting up. I am wondering if this might be outdated info.

by Jea103 on Apr 25, 2008 10:40 AM CDT 0 recs

5'11" may be ambitious

He has a stocky build, and I wouldn’t guess he was 175 lbs; he looks heavier.

by BHill on Apr 25, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up 0 recs

he's 6'0"

weighs about 220

Those height / weight things for minor leaguers are always funny. They still listed Masset at 190 lbs when he was in Frisco and weighed about 240

by bronco28 on Apr 25, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up 0 recs

yeah

i think they list madrigal at 200lb and there is no way he weighs that little.

"When we're mad we'll use our words. Then the rest of the world will play nice with us. And the only boom-booms will be in our pants." - Ralph Wiggum

by rentz on Apr 25, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up 0 recs

I heard that Max

is closer to 5’10’‘

Happiness

by jparks77 on Apr 25, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up 0 recs

Max and Saltalamacchia

I wonder if they’ll eventually tandem between DH and C in Arlington?

Is Max a strong enough catcher, at least to back up Saltalamacchia?

Many assume Max doesn’t justify staying behind the plate. I still think he’s a DH and, at best, PT catcher. That seems to be his role in Frisco too, so alright.

If playing him requires DH at-bats, I like the timeline you mention. It gives Botts a proper tryout in 2008.

And I bet the org has Davis on a similar plan.

Here’s hoping Botts does prove out, requiring you to share 1B, C and DH at bats among Botts, Saltalamacchia, Max, and Davis. The depth…it’s always a good problem.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Apr 25, 2008 10:42 AM CDT 0 recs

Max

He’s barely 5’11’’ so I don’t think 1B is a realistic option. If the Rangers want him to remain at catcher going forward, keeping him in the minors makes sense. If not, I don’t see why the Rangers need to wait until September to call him up.

He might not have much experience above A+, but he is already 23 years old and has almost 1300 career AB in the minors. He is absolutely killing the ball in AA (1.069 OPS) with a patient approach at the plate.

If he continues to hit going into the Summer, I don’t see why Ramirez couldn’t DH at the major league level. He’s already on the 40 and this season should be about evaluating young talent.

Happiness

by jparks77 on Apr 25, 2008 10:43 AM CDT 0 recs

+1

Fire Ron Washington

by pblack on Apr 25, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up 0 recs

presumably

at that point, you’d have decided the botts situation and you’d have a larger sample size for maxram so at the very least you should wait until then and then reevaluate

Rare Gnats Sex

by ab03 on Apr 25, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up 0 recs

pretty much what I have been saying

But I guess Adam feels that the only way a player can advance to Arlington is through OKC.

I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby

by RangerMad on Apr 25, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up 0 recs

yeah...right

You can’t have a 1b who’s 5’10” – 6’0” ..........

Except Prince Fielder, Daric Barton, Nick Swisher, Jeff Bagwell, Rafael Palmeiro, Gregg Jeffries, Don Mattingly, John Kruk, Keith Hernandez, Bill Buckner, Steve Garvey, George Brett, Pete Rose, Al Oliver, Rod Carew, Carl Yastrzemski ….

Can’t play 1b if you’re 5’11”? Where do people come up with some of this stuff?

But I agree with the premise that it would be ridiculous to call him up now. September will be just fine.

by bronco28 on Apr 25, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up 0 recs

too short?

earl says hello.

Every loss is one closer to the top of the draft in 2009!

by knockoutking on Apr 25, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up 0 recs

That's an awesome pic

EOM

"I hope it's a special dumb person hell so that I don’t have to meet up with you after I die."

- The D-tron

by Chase Irwin on Apr 25, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up 0 recs

What?

Saying he’s too short to play 1st is kind of like saying that Hamilton is too big to play center.

by Redcaps on Apr 26, 2008 8:43 AM CDT up 0 recs

Well..

5’10’’ is not an ideal size to play 1B. That was my point. I didn’t phrase it very well. Obviously there have been numerous short 1B that were well above average defensive players. I just happen to like big targets on 1B.

Also, with Botts needing ABs and Davis on the career path to Arlington, I just don’t like the idea of putting Max on 1B, in a stop-gap situation especially considering he has never played the position.

Happiness

by jparks77 on Apr 26, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up 0 recs

Understandable, but this is getting a little frusterating

It seems anyone, Salty, Hurley, Chris Davis, ect ect.

Everytime we start talking about someone Adam, or others say “lets slow down” or “lets give him some time, and get ready for a september call up” I mean we have been saying that for 2 years now on every single prospect we have.

I mean damn, IS SOMEONE EVER GONNA BE READY?? It seems like we have been too patient sometimes.

by SaltyGoesYard on Apr 25, 2008 11:05 AM CDT 0 recs

Well

At the very least Hurley should get his AAA ERA under 5 before he is promoted.

Fire Ron Washington

by pblack on Apr 25, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up 0 recs

Hurley

Has an ERA over 7 right now.

by Adam J. Morris on Apr 25, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up 0 recs

I'm with you...if we're going to lose anyway

I’d like to at least be watching more guys that have a chance to be part of the future.
How about…
Fire: Washington
DFA: Broussard, Vazquez, Melhuse
Trade: Laird, Catalanotto, Fukumori
Call up: Saltalamaccchia, Davis, Boggs, Max Ramirez , Madrigal
Yeah, yeah, yeah I know it will jack up the 40 and service time will start on some of these guys.

by Captain Snappy on Apr 25, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up 0 recs

why trade fukumori instead of leaving him in AAA?

eom

Every loss is one closer to the top of the draft in 2009!

by knockoutking on Apr 25, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up 0 recs

I guess it's fine to leave him there

although it feels like we’re filling up AAA with AAAA guys. During the Detroit series I wanted to see someone get DFA’ed during the game.

by Captain Snappy on Apr 25, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up 0 recs

"jack up the 40"

remember… “the 40 rules all”

Though I think all of those guys you mention are already on the 40.

by JBImaknee on Apr 25, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up 0 recs

Thank John Hart for that

This gap between Hurley and the next set of prospects is due to Harts neglect of the farm system. The majority of guys who are in that gap are Andrus, Salty, Harrison, Ramirez, Madrigal, etc are guys JD acquired last year. The truth is these guys do need more time to develop. Only the highest prospects generally jump AAA all together and then they struggle mightily for awhile at the ML level. If leaving them in the minors for an extra couple months cuts their struggling time in the majors by alot then thats fine.

As for MaxRam. I think if Teagarden shows he is fully healthy and can play everyday at catcher then the Rangers should look at making Ramirez a full time DH. He would have enough defensive skills that if needed he could play the field but the way he is swinging the bat I think he could be best served being a full time DH. The September callup is a perfect timeline for him. Keep raking at AA until early to mid June then go to OKC for another couple months and then make an appearance in Arlington in September.

by bigsteve on Apr 25, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up 0 recs

I agree but,

I guess I’d just rather see any of those guys learning (and struggling) in Arlington versus some of the duds on the current roster.

by Captain Snappy on Apr 25, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up 0 recs

not true

the astros have had pitching prospects skip AAA for years.

now, its MUCH harder for hitters to do.

also, why make maxram a full time DH? theres only a handful of those guys in the GAME why limit him to that so early in his career?

Every loss is one closer to the top of the draft in 2009!

by knockoutking on Apr 25, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up 0 recs

Ok

The vaunted Astros pitching staff? Is that the one you are talking about? Yeah lets model ourselves after them.

As for Ramirez. His natural position is catcher where both salty and Teagarden are in front of him mainly due to his defensive ability or lack there of. People have suggested 1B. Again he is blocked by Chris Davis. You could move him to the outfield I guess but if you already have Hamilton and Murphy would he really be needed out there? I think his defense is comparable to Cats which is fine. Gives you some roster flexibility in that he can play LF, 1B, and then even C in a pinch but just like with Cat you don’t want to run him out there everyday.

by bigsteve on Apr 25, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up 0 recs

not my point that we model after them

my point was that they do it.

Every loss is one closer to the top of the draft in 2009!

by knockoutking on Apr 25, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up 0 recs

Yeah

and they struggle mightliy and most never materialize. Only the absolute sure fire can’t miss ones should make that jump IMO and even then they will struggle. Spending time in AAA while it may seem meaningless to a top prospect and fans does do good for a player and does help their development in ways the big leagues cannot.

by bigsteve on Apr 25, 2008 12:16 PM CDT up 0 recs

And only Oswalt has turned out

Most turn out like Tim Redding and are never heard from again. And I hate to break it to you, but Hurley is not near the prospect that Oswalt was.

by uthornfan on Apr 25, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up 0 recs

actually blame that on fuson

and thank Hart for Hurley.

just got ownaged

by Longhorn on Apr 25, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up 0 recs

I don't thank Hart for anything

He singlehandedly set this organization back half a decade with his incompetance and then didn’t have the nerve to ever face the media and fans and explain himself

by bigsteve on Apr 25, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up 0 recs

Tim Redding

He’s actually with the Nats this year and rocking a 3.67 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, while punching out 20 in 27 IP.

White Women!

by nikpin on Apr 25, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up 0 recs

I think that it's a little more complicated than that

During most of Hart’s tenure Fuson ran the draft, so from 2002-2004 the system was largely stocked with polished college draftees and had little to no emphasis on the ultra-young international types. As Fuson exited, the organization transitioned to more of an “upside” philosophy that featured many more HS picks and a growing emphasis on international scouting and a bigger budget for 16 and 17 year old Latinos. That transition, for example, caused the gap in talent that we’re seeing in the upper level rotations.

by zywica on Apr 25, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up 0 recs

when it comes to maxram

should he be up in sept, yes.

but say in sept they have gotten rid of laird and salty is the starter/melhuse the backup.

in sept do you callup teagarden AND maxram AND davis?

if you do, how do you distribute playing time between the 4 guys?
salty – most of the time at C
teagarden – some time at C
max ram – some time at DH? any time at C?
davis – some time at 1b/DH?

what does that to do melhuse (do you drop him – i think yes)
what does that do to botts (and should we know by then?)

side note regarding teagarden:
his line is .169, 20 hits/59 AB, 2 2b, 2 hr, 6 rbi, 8 bb, 23 K, .279 OBP, .305 SLG, .584 OPS—thats ~~wilkerson-esque~~ horrible.

so basically in sept you call up (bat wise) – presuming salty is already up/starting, which he should be
teagarden
maxram
davis
duran
boggs
+call up arias?

right?

side note II: doesnt look like its gonna be TOO hard to remove guys from the 40 this offseason:
eddie guardado
jason jennings
kam loe
franklyn german (maybe)
john rheinecker (60 day)*
adam melhuse
ben broussard
marolyn byrd (wishful thinking?)
botts (should know one way or another by the offseason)
catalanotto (wishful thinking)
laird

thats 6 free spots the way i see it no matter what (guardado, loe, jennings, melhuse, broussard, laird) + depending on how they do f german/botts

Every loss is one closer to the top of the draft in 2009!

by knockoutking on Apr 25, 2008 11:49 AM CDT 0 recs

September

Guys who are already on the 40 man who I think will see Arlington in September

Madrigal, Borbon, Ramirez, Duran (if hes not already here), Boggs, Hurley (another if hes not already up here), Harrison, Arias.

Now there are a few guys who have to be added to the 40 man this coming winter who could get a call like Teagarden but unless we have spots available I don’t see them coming yet. Davis won’t have to be on the 40 man until after 09 but if he keeps up his current pace he will be here in September no doubt about it.

by bigsteve on Apr 25, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up 0 recs

Hurley is not on the 40 man

by Adam J. Morris on Apr 25, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up 0 recs

Ahh yes thanks

I still think we see him this year either in September or before

by bigsteve on Apr 25, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up 0 recs

I agree

He has to be added this offseason, so unless something bad happens, he’ll be up in September,

by Adam J. Morris on Apr 25, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up 0 recs

Hurley

Will be up well before September. When he gets this one glitch fixed, he is going to start dominating some baseball games.

by sidebar54 on Apr 25, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up 0 recs

eeh

Do they usually do that with a guy who needs to be added in the winter following the season? They didn’t do it with Kinsler.

by bronco28 on Apr 25, 2008 4:19 PM CDT up 0 recs

apples and oranges

Kinsler wasn’t the top prospect Hurley is. Kinsler had a breakthrough year where he went from off the radar to on it. Hurley has been one of, if not the top, our top pitching prospects for a couple years now. His numbers are similar or better to Danks at each level prior to this year.

Same as Davis. Both of those guys are guys who you can very confidently say will be on the club next year so if they are ready in September and you aren’t burning an option by adding them to the 40 go ahead.

by bigsteve on Apr 25, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up 0 recs

I don't know

Kinsler wasn’t the top prospect Hurley is.

\
I think it has more to do with the fact that there was already someone who played Kinsler’s position at the major league level, who was going to play everyday.

by Adam J. Morris on Apr 25, 2008 5:29 PM CDT up 0 recs

Hurley

Regarding Hurley… for starters, his ERA is under 7, for what it’s worth. Barely, but under 7.

We had this discussion on another thread. Hurley has looked VERY good in his last two starts, however, the results aren’t there. He looked exceptional in his start last night. Again, the numbers weren’t there. His fastball was consistently in the mid 90’s. His slider was absolutely disgusting. He threw a couple of very good change/splitfingers. And I thought I counted about a half dozen curveballs and at least 4 of them were for strikes.

I really believe Hurley is having one issue, and one issue only in AAA. Pitch selection. I can honestly say that. I don’t believe he is doing anything wrong except throwing the wrong pitch. For starters, out of the 7 hits, 6 were with 2 strikes. If there is one single thing he needs to work on, or one single thing he needs to have “seasoned” (btw, what a panzy term) is his ability to put people away. When you have the stuff he has, there is only one thing that is his problem, and that is pitch selection.

He has the stuff to pitch in the big leagues right now. He just doesn’t “know” yet how to consistently put hitters away. And heck, he had 8 strikeouts last night. Imagine if he “knew” how to put hitters away when 6 of the hits were with two strikes? Not saying KRich is doing a bad job with Hurley (who by the way has caught 3 out of Hurley’s 4 games in AAA), I am just saying. Maybe they need to find something that is working and stick with it.

FWIW, one thing I liked about Hurley was that after McPherson hit the homerun (the VERY MUCH wind-aided HR), he came right back at him and struck him out twice.

Maybe he is working on something?

by sidebar54 on Apr 25, 2008 11:59 AM CDT 0 recs

Good stuff

My question to you. When he gets two strikes is he trying to strike guys out by throwing strikes or is he trying to strike them out by getting them to chase things out of the zone? If he is trying to throw strikes that will come back to bite him in the next level although that can also be fixed pretty easily working with the pitching coach and having veterans like Millwood and Padilla around.

by bigsteve on Apr 25, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up 0 recs

I believe....

He is trying to take on the silly thing to pitch to contact. He is striking people out alot with 2-2 counts, etc. I’d love to see how many people he could strike out he if he was actually trying to strike everyone out. HaHa

by sidebar54 on Apr 25, 2008 12:10 PM CDT up 0 recs

Mr. Hurley....

Why implicate Richardson without giving specifics?

If you are going to insinuate that K-Rich is to blame for Eric’s poor result, then don’t you think it would be fair to explain in detail why it’s his fault?

Another question: Is Eric not allowed to shake Richardson off?

I do assume that Eric is working on something, but what? Please illuminate.

Most pitchers go through a period when their stats suffer because they are hammering out a weakness or two - a lot of people who focus too much on numbers don’t seem to understand that - it’s just that most of them do it before they get to AAA.

by bronco28 on Apr 25, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up 0 recs

Wait wait wait.....

For one? Mr Hurley? huh?

I was not insinuating anything at all bad with Richardson and after I read that I completely apologize for anything that seemed for it to come out that way. I was saying Hurley and Richardson, since they seem pretty close, should come together before the games and maybe find something that is going to work, pitch selection wise. I was in NO way downing Kevin in the slightest bit. I like him alot.

I agree. ERIC has to figure out how to pitch. I apologize in it being said any other way. Eric is able to shake pitches. Ultimately, it comes down to Eric. Richardson is a great catcher. He is swinging the bat extremely well lately also.

I would like to know what Eric is working on also. Do you happen to know?

I agree with the numbers thing in the minors. People definetly look way to much into the numbers.

by sidebar54 on Apr 25, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up 0 recs

I'm more excited about the other Max

the one I spend at least 10 minutes a week reading about.

The one who is starting his first tee ball league here pretty soon, threw a pack of baseball cards out his window, and who hearts Franchise Face a whole, whole lot.

He’s a huge figure to Ranger fans, yet he’s hardly mentioned here, and almost never by AJM, which I’m pretty sure makes him a bad person on the inside.

Can we more about that Max?

"Sabean did a good job on selling high on Liriano." -Excel Hearts Choi

by thedirkatron on Apr 25, 2008 1:48 PM CDT 0 recs

^^ "talk more about..."

"Sabean did a good job on selling high on Liriano." -Excel Hearts Choi

by thedirkatron on Apr 25, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up 0 recs

+1

Happiness

by jparks77 on Apr 25, 2008 1:56 PM CDT up 0 recs

MaxRam...

could he play 3B? That would be a area of need.

Then there is always a COF spot. The Rangers could really use a power bat in the OF.

I vote for RF, LF, or 3B. Put him in AAA and see if he can handle that, and if so make him a Sept call up.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Apr 25, 2008 3:33 PM CDT 0 recs

That's a good idea

as shroom mentioned in the other thread, unless Whit really picks it up, we could be waiting on Solis or West.

As far as the big club, FOTF is the only real option post-Blalock.

"I hope it's a special dumb person hell so that I don’t have to meet up with you after I die."

- The D-tron

by Chase Irwin on Apr 25, 2008 4:07 PM CDT up 0 recs

I believe that

Ramirez was really bad at 3B when he played there early in his career.

by zywica on Apr 25, 2008 4:35 PM CDT up 0 recs

I'm not predicting this

and it may sound stupid, but i wouldn’t completely discount the possibility that Ramirez makes it as a hitter and Davis doesn’t, just as I said about hitting/catcher over the winter with him and Teagarden.

by zywica on Apr 25, 2008 4:39 PM CDT 0 recs

Davis

I guess you’re referring to his K rate. Valid.

It makes little sense, but I wonder about the possibility of moving Davis back to 3B. It was nice seeing Whittleman step up against Lackey last night, but he hasn’t been a convincing incumbent at the position (which is pretty much his to lose) this year.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Apr 25, 2008 5:34 PM CDT up 0 recs

pissed off

I hope that Ramirez is pissed that TT is going up to OKC. I hope he goes out tonight and smack 5 HRs. Calls up JD and says ” F@&% You! I don’t need AAA. I am coming straight to Arlington.”

Max Ramirez 2008 Texas Rangers ROY

by RangerMad on Apr 25, 2008 4:45 PM CDT 0 recs