Daniels on a "short leash"?
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 26, 2008 12:50 PM CDT
129 comments
Everyone's favorite former DFW baseball writer, Gerry Fraley, has a new column up where he addresses Jon Daniels' job security:
As general manager of the Texas Rangers, Jon Daniels has tried mightily to restore order to an organization that disintegrated into chaos during John Hart’s tenure. Daniels has made significant strides in rebuilding a broken player-development system and has brought together the elements of the organization that drifted apart under Hart.
That said, Daniels is on an increasingly short leash for one reason. In his tenure, the Rangers have made a series of spectacularly bad decisions on pitchers. Armando Galarraga threatens to join the list.
Galarraga, a 26-year-old rookie righthander, has made two strong starts for Detroit. The Rangers dropped Galarraga from the major-league roster last winter even though he had one option season remaining and traded him to the Tigers for minor-league outfielder Michael Hernandez, who was released during spring training.
The deteriorating Rangers could use Galarraga now. They could also use righthander Chris Young, sent to San Diego in the Adam Eaton deal after the 2005 season; and lefthander John Danks, traded to the Chicago White Sox for righthander Brandon McCarthy before the 2007 season.
Eaton spent one injury-riddled season with the Rangers, and McCarthy is currently on the disabled list. They are a combined 12-14 with the Rangers.
Chris Young has 21 wins in two-plus seasons with the Padres. After going 6-13 as a rookie last seasons, Danks is 2-1 with a 3.04 ERA in four starts this season and has 14 2/3 consecutive scoreless innings.
None of this sits well with the organization’s new president: Hall of Fame pitcher Nolan Ryan.
Fraley seems to be saying flat out that Ryan is unhappy with Daniels, or at least his handling of the team's pitching, which is not something that has been said directly by anyone in the D/FW media, to date.
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i don't know who this guy you speak of is...
just got ownaged
by Longhorn on Apr 26, 2008 12:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
agreed
he should be on a short leash. i really like JD and he says all the right things. the steps he has made to restore our farm have been awesome. but it will be hard for him to live down the decisions he has made with our pitching staff. it is unfortunate, because some of it is dumb luck, but if this team limps to another 4th place finish without seeing serious progress at the major league level, then he deserves to be unemployed.
by clark on Apr 26, 2008 12:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
F Him...
He sounds like a typical DMN blog poster.
Whatevah!!!
...it's the weekend, so why the hell not?
by Rodney on Apr 26, 2008 12:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Screw Fraley...
I don’t buy anything he’s selling. Screw Nolan Ryan as well, the guy is a figure head and nothing more. JD shouldn’t have a short leash right now. Yes he has made a couple bad moves but the good out way the bad. I understand the Young deal being bad but the Danks deal was not his fault and Galarraga hasn’t had enough time to show anything yet. How about taking a bottom feeding minor league system and putting them into a top 5 system in one year.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Apr 26, 2008 1:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
CWS have a double header
Pitchers Danks then Masset. He’s made a lot of blunders but I think he might be turning the tide and maturing as a general manager, by building through the farm. But if he is on a short leash you can’t really blame ownership, the results speak for themselves. Time to jinx Danks: no-no through five.
by sprite on Apr 26, 2008 1:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Broken up...
...by the first guy up in the 6th…
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 26, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
now a 2-run homer
he really does suck, doesn’t he?
by bronco28 on Apr 26, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Help me out
Is this schtick, or are you suggesting that I (or others) say he sucks?
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 26, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wrong
Daniels has made one bad deal.
The Tex deal was excellent. The Gagne deal was excellent. The Lofton deal was off the charts. And I’m told that McCarthy is actually a great pitcher, so that’s going to be a win too…just not right now (especially not right now, since Danks is perfect through 5 IP today).
Chris Young & Gonzalez was horrible of course.
Choosing Jennings over Galarraga is understandable. If Jennings gets on a little run going into July - and he could - then he’s got great trade value. Worthwhile risk.
The rest of the moves were just moving bodies around. Inconsequential.
by bronco28 on Apr 26, 2008 1:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
the young deal
what annoys me the most about that deal is the rumor that we could have done the trade substituting laird for CY. Even at the time of the trade, i dont see why you would choose to put a pitcher in over a catcher.
not that laird/a-gon for eaton/aki would have been a great trade either.
Gerald Laird is my hero.
by DSheppard on Apr 26, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano?
that wasn’t a bad deal? Brad F’n Wilkerson and Armando Galarraga? for a 40/40 guy?
And you cannot count the trades for Tex and Gagne as great yet. Hopefully the kids pan out…....
by coachh on Apr 26, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes you can.
Tex wasn’t going to resign, Gagne is old. Period. Prospects that don’t pan out doesn’t make it a bad deal, you take your chances.
by MeanMr.Mustard on Apr 26, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Tex prospects don't pan out
It is absolutely a bad trade, when there were other offers on the table, and there had to have been some say in which prospects were acquired.
by venturafearsnolan on Apr 26, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dont confuse the result with the decision
If someones asks you to choose between pujols and broussard for one game, pujols goes 0 for 5 and broussard hits a homerun it doesnt mean pujols was the wrong decision.
Gerald Laird is my hero.
by DSheppard on Apr 26, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The other trades involve prospects too
prospects inherently possess risk. You trade 1 very good major leaguer for several prospects in hope that at east 1 of those prospects turn into a very good major leaguer as well (or several turn into above average ones). Beyond the trade, it’s a matter of development.
by Telegraph on Apr 26, 2008 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what were the alternatives?
the money they took off the books by trading Soriano turned into Millwood. Fine by me.
did Daniels turn down a better offer for Soriano?
by bronco28 on Apr 26, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can I get you
to do my performance review?
by SteveP on Apr 26, 2008 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the McCarthy trade is already a bust.
...even as an average starter, the fact that Danks continues to take the mound is reason enough.
"There's something to be said for just plugging away and not feeling very sorry for yourself.'' - Terry Francona
by oc on Apr 26, 2008 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
disagree...
Danks has not pitched enough to know what he will be. I think it’s still to early to say the trade is a failure. Obviously the McCarthy injury is frustrating though.
It looks bad now, but McCarthy could come back and be a better pitcher than Danks.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Apr 26, 2008 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeh but WHEN and for WHO?
I have to agree with OC, as time goes on you can only keep candy coating this one up to a certain point. Sooner or later we need some results, and the sooner part keeps getting pushed back.
The "Electrician" was born 7/16/07 11:53 PM EDT
http://www.lonestarball.com/2007/7/16/213154/893
by LAMuscleFag on Apr 26, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The more starts
BMac loses, the more likely it is the trade is a bust.
"Before I leave, I once again condemn the despicable buffoonery of D.J. Cahill." - Huck
by DJCahill on Apr 26, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Danks will have already pitched twice as many innings as McCarthy when he comes back from the DL.
...considering the on-going injuries to our rotation… the fact that he’s a lefty, and two years younger… that’s a bust.
footnote: Danks has only surrendered one HR in five starts this season… a drastic improvement over last year.
"There's something to be said for just plugging away and not feeling very sorry for yourself.'' - Terry Francona
by oc on Apr 26, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 ******** SIGH ********
The "Electrician" was born 7/16/07 11:53 PM EDT
http://www.lonestarball.com/2007/7/16/213154/893
by LAMuscleFag on Apr 26, 2008 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 ******** SIGH ********
The "Electrician" was born 7/16/07 11:53 PM EDT
http://www.lonestarball.com/2007/7/16/213154/893
by LAMuscleFag on Apr 26, 2008 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You had me at Fraley
www.mavsmoneyball.com
by Wes Cox on Apr 26, 2008 1:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Unconditional Love
can be a beautiful thing…but not for a MLB GM.
For a group of stats/numbers proponents, as well as the frequent calls for concrete evidence to support opinions, I find the constant defenses of JD on emotional bases somewhat disingenuous.
Yeah, yeah…I’m an idiot…but not empirically!
I'd rather be Blind, Crippled, & Crazy
by Clueless on Apr 26, 2008 1:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't get your whole line
of repetitive posts. Nearly every JD fan here admits he is not perfect. Everyone here will tell you the SD trade sucked balls and some other decisions have been bad. But overall the team seems to finally have a direction for the first time in several years.
You say people here deny Daniels has ever done anything wrong. You’re worse, you deny he’s ever done anything right. Like all GMs he’s a mixed bag. He’s not the best, but he’s far from the worst.
I basically like the general direction Daniels is going while I dislike some of the steps he’s taken along the way. That is the basic opinion of many here, and it seems balanced to me. Why don’t you offer a balanced criticism instead of merely repeating the same post over and over.
...and curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid git.
by t ball on Apr 26, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course he's had some successes and some failures
It just feels like the failures are far more frustrating than the successes are satisfying.
by venturafearsnolan on Apr 26, 2008 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can understand that
though in time the Gagne and Teixeira trades might be seen to be as big on the positive side as the SD trade was on the negative side. In the long term you have to realize how important things like the revamping of the scouting department, new academy in the DR, hiring of Colborn, etc. might be, too. That is one of the reasons I support Daniels. He’s doing behind the scenes things to try to improve the long term picture that most fans won’t ever give him credit for and that might not pay off until after he’s gone. That is the kind of GM I want.
...and curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid git.
by t ball on Apr 26, 2008 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bingo!
“That is one of the reasons I support Daniels. He’s doing behind the scenes things to try to improve the long term picture that most fans won’t ever give him credit for and that might not pay off until after he’s gone. That is the kind of GM I want.”
t ball…Now I do totally agree with you as to the above. He has overachieved in these areas, and should be rewarded…perhaps as Vice-President of Player Development..whatever.
He is a talented competent guy…just not as a major-league GM in the narrow area of stocking the Rangers with playoff-caliber players.
Perhaps some people begrudge the call for JD to be replaced as GM as a demotion.
How about as a horizontal move? No shame in that.
I'd rather be Blind, Crippled, & Crazy
by Clueless on Apr 26, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come on
That’s like telling Ron Washington we are going to fire him as the manager, but he can stick around as 3B coach and infield coach.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 26, 2008 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OR
like being fired and then promoted to Special Consultant to Tom Hicks.
Why has this become an ego thing, and worrying about hurt feelings?
This is a business. Ask Tom.
I'd rather be Blind, Crippled, & Crazy
by Clueless on Apr 26, 2008 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It isn't
I’m saying, it is unrealistic to tell Daniels, we are demoting you, but want you to hang around in a lesser capacity.
I don’t know that Daniels would do that, and even if he would, I don’t think it is something that would be a good idea.
This is a business. How many businesses put someone in charge of, essentially, a major division, and then come back after a couple of years and say, it isn’t working, how about we demote you and have you answer to someone new who is taking over your job?
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 26, 2008 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Almost Same Page
You’re right, given that scenario.
But I said a horizontal move, or a promotion…different responsibilities.
Maybe it can’t be done, but a division of duties makes sense.
I'd rather be Blind, Crippled, & Crazy
by Clueless on Apr 26, 2008 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair Enough
My posts probably are too repetitive, but I believe that I only post in reaction to comments that try to exonerate JD, while condemning either Hicks, Hart, Showalter, or, incredibly, Nolan Ryan, who’s been here two months. I’ll admit that I get too one-toned, and I’ll apologize here and now for that.
That being said, I’ll disagree with your statement that a majority here have a balanced view either.
In fact, the few who actually have called for JD’s firing are regularly lambasted or insulted.
I agree that he is a mixed bag of results. I like many of his deals, dislike more of his deals, and do believe that the farm system is improved. However, that improvement came as a result of circumstances and failure, not as a conscious plan from the get-go.
Here’s an explanation of the root of my opinion: I believe that Tom Hicks hired JD as a cheap frontman designed to buy another couple of years with the fans. Rebuilding was not the plan when JD was hired. Given that premise, and the fact that the talk immediately started as to how the Rangers were going to be contenders in 2007, JD, being unqualified for a major-league GM, made crucial mistakes and gave away players that had come up through the Ranger system, certainly not in line with a rebuilding strategy. the result was disastrous. Nevertheless, the fact that he was young, and that he hired a rookie manager, allowed Hicks to buy some more time. Due to the horrendous start of the 2007 season, the ONLY course of action which could salvage things was to bail on all of your veteran players and pick up prospects. Which was good…but it wasn’t planned, and JD still can’t evaluate major-league talent.
He’s a good guy…he was put in an untenable situation…he is in over his head…he should be in charge of the farm system, while an experienced major-league GM should be in charge of the Rangers.
He needn’t be fired…just relocated in the same manner that many have been relocated in the Empire of Hicks. That’s a Win-Win-Win-Win situation, and I don’t see the problem with it.
I'd rather be Blind, Crippled, & Crazy
by Clueless on Apr 26, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm so god damned tired of hearing about Nolan Ryan
He can go away now.
"Sabean did a good job on selling high on Liriano." -Excel Hearts Choi
by thedirkatron on Apr 26, 2008 1:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Damn him
He wants accountability for poor decisions and the team to improve.
HOW DARE HE!?
by venturafearsnolan on Apr 26, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just a question.
And don’t look it up.
Who was the team president before Nolan?
And how many times did we hear about him?
"Sabean did a good job on selling high on Liriano." -Excel Hearts Choi
by thedirkatron on Apr 26, 2008 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well put.
Though, that is not necessarily a slam dunk good thing.
...and curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid git.
by t ball on Apr 26, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What bothers me about this
is people are talking about Nolan Ryan making all these decisions that are the GM’s decision to make. If you want Nolan making GM decisions, then make him the GM.
The one thing I worried about more than anything else when Nolan was named president was that the chain of command would get all sorts of muddled.
If Nolan is really making these types of decisions, then that sucks, cause having a team president who is always going to be second guessing and going over the head of the GM is a fucked up way to run an organization.
"Sabean did a good job on selling high on Liriano." -Excel Hearts Choi
by thedirkatron on Apr 26, 2008 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which, unfortunately,
would be par for the course with Hicks and the Rangers both.
...and curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid git.
by t ball on Apr 26, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nolan has to "appear" to be doing something...
...because the general public concensus of Hicks and Daniels isn’t very favorable.
Ryan is fresh air. as far as John Q. Ranger Fan is concerned, he isn’t responsible for the past failures…
it’s a stunt. just like everything else.
"There's something to be said for just plugging away and not feeling very sorry for yourself.'' - Terry Francona
by oc on Apr 26, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seconded
The Cult of Ryan has always baffled me.
I once sat across from a guy in a San Diego casino who berated me for challenging his ridiculous assertion that Ryan was a better pitcher than Roger Clemens. Surprisingly, he sucked some ass in hold em, too.
"For the record, I did not and do not like the Volquez trade, even though Hamilton is awesome and our best player and I think he’s going to be one of the best players in baseball." philikid3
by Brian Thomas on Apr 26, 2008 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan
He is a blank slate, someone who people who are unhappy with the Rangers can project on. He’ll come in, clean up, fire everyone, takes names, blah blah blah…
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 26, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
Wish I had said it that well.
If I hear one more bad Nolan metaphor about how Nolan needs to fix things (“Come on, Nolan! Fire some Texas high heat at the boy blunder! LOL at my own joke!“), I’m going to pull a Miles on my computer.
"Sabean did a good job on selling high on Liriano." -Excel Hearts Choi
by thedirkatron on Apr 26, 2008 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Out Way?
What good moves do you speak of? JD should be fired!!! Plain and simple. Those trades last year definitely do not count as good moves (they may look good, but who knows if any of those kids will pan out)
Imagine this team if you will:
C Laird
1B Texiera
2B Kinsler
3B Blalock
SS Young
LF Catalanotto
CF Mathews
RF Soriano
DH Adrian Gonzalez
SP Chris Young
SP Millwood
SP Padilla
SP Danks
SP Volquez
Cl Coco
RP Wilson
RP Benoit
RP Francisco
RP Wright
RP Littleton
RP Rupe
That team would compete…..........................
by coachh on Apr 26, 2008 1:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
GMJ sucks
And are you arguing that the Rangers should have signed Cordero this offseason to be their closer?
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 26, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that Gary Matthews Jr. in Center?
No thank you. I’d do Hamilton for Volquez 1000 times over
by MeanMr.Mustard on Apr 26, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not when your pitching staff is in shambles.
"There's something to be said for just plugging away and not feeling very sorry for yourself.'' - Terry Francona
by oc on Apr 26, 2008 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
You list Soriano…
He was a free agent. Do you think the Rangers should have matched the roughly $140 million over 8 years the Cubs gave him?
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 26, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"For the record, I did not and do not like the Volquez trade, even though Hamilton is awesome and our best player and I think he’s going to be one of the best players in baseball." philikid3
by Brian Thomas on Apr 26, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I flip a coin
and because nobody can tell me for certain that it will land on heads, therefore it must land on tails.
I am off to Vegas baby!
by Telegraph on Apr 26, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You dont judge deals by what happens afterward.
well you do and the media does, but losing/winning trades after the initial judgements is more luck than anything….
no matter what happens, the tex trade was a good decision. and for the same reason the danks/mccarthy trade was not a bad trade. it just turned out bad.
we all know the young trade was terrible for day 1, but otherwise I think JD has been pretty unlucky w/ injuries to and performances of some of his acquisitions.
although letting galarraga go was pretty blah. he certainly isnt proven yet though.
Gerald Laird is my hero.
by DSheppard on Apr 26, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once again, the Soriano trade
Are you REALLY arguing we couldn’t have gotten more than Brad Wilkerson and a throw-in to the said horrible Young trade?
by venturafearsnolan on Apr 26, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prospect wise, probably
but the rangers were making an effort to win now at the time. I dont know if there was a better mlb player offered. There is a reason the trade was not perceived all that poorly at the time.
you have to remember soriano did not have great seasons as a ranger and his defense was getting more poor attention, his value was down a bit.
and hell, his value should have been sky-high in the midst of his huge ‘06 and the nationals couldnt even get an offer they dealt worth pulling the trigger on.
i dont think its safe to assume JD had a lot of good offers to choose from.
Gerald Laird is my hero.
by DSheppard on Apr 26, 2008 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll argue that
It is no secret that John Hart had tried and failed to trade Soriano for a solid year and a half to no avail.
Personally, I was a little disappointed with the return we got, but if a 18 months go by, and you are still coming up with nothing, maybe you take what you can get and save the 11 million.
Besides, if you are so sure sure of yourself, why don’t you post some links of baseball cognoscenti panning the trade at the time it went down?
"For the record, I did not and do not like the Volquez trade, even though Hamilton is awesome and our best player and I think he’s going to be one of the best players in baseball." philikid3
by Brian Thomas on Apr 26, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there's no way
that Soriano and Millwood could have both been on this team
Daniels could only afford to sign Millwood by getting rid of Soriano’s salary
by bronco28 on Apr 26, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
JD's trades
The Gagne deal doesn’t count as a good move?
David Murphy’s contributions alone make that a great trade, never mind what Gabbard and Beltre wind up doing.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
by RCCook on Apr 26, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
The Murph is a BEAST!!
The "Electrician" was born 7/16/07 11:53 PM EDT
http://www.lonestarball.com/2007/7/16/213154/893
by LAMuscleFag on Apr 26, 2008 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You sir, are so dumb you should be watered
Go away. Let the grown folks do the talking..
"For the record, I did not and do not like the Volquez trade, even though Hamilton is awesome and our best player and I think he’s going to be one of the best players in baseball." philikid3
by Brian Thomas on Apr 26, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Concur
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Apr 26, 2008 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
GMJ Sucks Donkey
The Angels can enjoy that for 4 more years
by RA Dickey on Apr 26, 2008 1:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So you are saying
that GMJ was on Donkey Growth Hormones?
"Sex is not a crime. It's a loving act between two or more consenting adults." - Hank Kingsley
by EssBee on Apr 26, 2008 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tex
Would never have re-signed anyway, Boras clients ALWAYS go to free agency and the highest bidder. He was leaving anyway.
by RA Dickey on Apr 26, 2008 1:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Just
Saying what could have been. If we had an owner that would pony up and not made those trades. Forget the line-up. Look at the staff…......
by coachh on Apr 26, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Staff
What’s so great about that staff? We already have Milwood and Padilla. Young is good, but as AJM constantly points out, he gets a lot of help from his park and defense. Volquez and Danks are off to good starts, but Danks had a 1.5 whip and 5.50 era last year while Volquez had a 1.44 whip and a 4.50 era. That’s a better staff than we have at this exact moment, but it’s nothing special. Milwood (87 era+), Padilla (78 era+), and Danks (86 era+) all had well below league average season last year while Volquez was at league average (100 era+). I don’t see the huge improvement.
The Rangers still would have sucked last year…they would just have a lot more payroll tied up in shaky long term deals (the perma-injured Soriano, an unreliable Coco, and the unbelievably overpaid GMJ).
by BAC on Apr 26, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The more frustrating
part for me is that we never even gave Danks a chance because he wasn’t ready, as he immediately goes to the Sox and contributes. Not saying he is an ace, but he isn’t killing them at the back of their rotation. We can’t seem to evaluate talent, when they should come up, if they should, etc.
by RA Dickey on Apr 26, 2008 1:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Danks
He wasn’t real good last year, and ended up getting shut down before the end of the season. I don’t know that he’s a great argument for the Rangers not knowing when someone is ready or should be called up.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 26, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Real Question
I’ve heard it said about Danks, and many other pitchers new to a team or league, that they wouldn’t do so well as teams figure them out.
What do you think about that theory? I understand the basic logic of it, but wouldn’t it just apply to the average pitchers ? (This isn’t about Danks…just the concept)
I'd rather be Blind, Crippled, & Crazy
by Clueless on Apr 26, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it depends
I think there is, in a very general sense, an edge to the pitcher when the opposition has never faced him. I think you occasionally have guys with limited repertoires who do well initially, and some of that may be the result of no one knowing the book on them.
I don’t think that’s necessarily true of Danks, though. I think he’s someone who will have a solid major league career.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 26, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Limited Repertoire
That’s the category of pitchers to whom I thought it might apply.
So to counter that, such a pitcher would have to add pitches to his collection.
Thanks…makes sense.
I'd rather be Blind, Crippled, & Crazy
by Clueless on Apr 26, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or change speeds...
...or have pinpoint control, or have a devastating pitch…
Kevin Brown had about the most limited repertoire a dominant pitcher has had…he basically threw nothing but 93 mph sinkers, and had a ton of success with it.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 26, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point is
Danks and McCarthy are viewed as pitchers with similar ceilings a few years back, with the exception that Danks has a bit more upside due to age and McCarthy more experience. Masset was a throw-in since he was a lost cause. McCarthy is probably a better prospect than Danks was at every level in the minors (he had some very good K/BB K/9 numbers). The trade was made in line with the philosophy that the 07 team was good enough to compete. Even though the philosophy and baseball judgment was poor at the time, the trade itself is not bad.
by Telegraph on Apr 26, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Repeating History
Ron Darling, Walt Terrell, Dave Righetti, Wilson Alvarez, Edison Volquez, Mitch Williams, Armando Galarraga, Chris Young are just some of the pitching names traded away for little in return throughout Rangers history.
The Rangers have always had problems with pitching. Until they change their ideaology, you’ll be seeing the best and brighrest young Ranger pitching prospects succeeding elsewhere.
by The Straightshooter on Apr 26, 2008 1:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Mitch Williams?
Yeah, that Palmeiro guy we got for him sure was a bust…
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
by RCCook on Apr 26, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will agree with some
But Volquez brought us back Hamilton. There’s no way you can say “little in return” when it comes to him.
by venturafearsnolan on Apr 26, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
walt terrell
really?
i’m sure you can go through the 25 year history of any team and come with a comparable (probably better) list
Rare Gnats Sex
by ab03 on Apr 26, 2008 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mitch Williams and Edinson Volquez
They were dealt for little in return?
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 26, 2008 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Flashes
He has had flashes of showing that he at least belongs in the bigs. He isn’t embarrasing himself at this level, and he didn’t even get a sniff on a God Awful team. I’m just saying, it’s not going to kill some of these young guys to get up to the bigs and get some experience on a last place team. Do I want to do this if we were contending, absolutely not. We need to accept that we suck and give Botts 400 ABs, hell give Cruz 400 ABs, if they suck, release them. What is the point of FCat and Byrd being here? We should have blown this thing up a few years back and taken our lumps. At least now we would know what these guys have, if anything. Please don’t take this as a “I think Nelson Cruz is good” email. But, I’d probably rather see him than MByrd.
by RA Dickey on Apr 26, 2008 1:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
this isn't about Fraley
I have defended JD vehemently throughout his career, but all of his defenders, at least right now, are baffling me. He has made some decent trades, among them the Tex, Gagne, Lofton, Padilla, and Hamilton deals, but his ledger is still in the negative because of the phenomenal failure of the Young, Danks, and Soriano deals.
Why is everyone defending him right now?
by clark on Apr 26, 2008 1:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
because they should
That is not me in the photo, so relax.
by rldwb on Apr 26, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Danks
There just hasn’t been enough time to decide on that one.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Apr 26, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a hard time...
...categorizing the Soriano or Danks deals as “phenomenal failures.”
The Danks deal could become one, but Soriano simply didn’t have a lot of trade value.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 26, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
soriano
all of the evidence points to him not having trade value. we heard all of the potential offers, we saw washington was unable to trade him even after he successfully made the switch to OF, but something’s just not right when a guy who actually is a pretty good offensive threat can’t net more than he did.
btw, as unfair as it is, you have to look at the results of a trade too, not just what the best deal was at the time. you can’t keep chalking up deals like soriano and danks to bad luck
Rare Gnats Sex
by ab03 on Apr 26, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the thing
He was a horrible defensive second baseman. Not a lot of teams wanted him there.
He was very clear that he didn’t want to change positions. Not a lot of teams wanted that headache.
He was a year away from free agency. Not a lot of teams are going to want to give up much for a one-year rental.
He was going to make $10-12 million in arbitration. Not a whole lot of teams wanted to pay that.
And he was coming off a couple of disappointing offensive seasons in Texas.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 26, 2008 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tell em, Adam
I do not know if some peoples memories are short/selective or they just weren’t around back then.
That is not me in the photo, so relax.
by rldwb on Apr 26, 2008 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are very few posters here
who are willing to admit they’re only 20/20 with hindsight regarding that deal. There was wider dissension with the Danks deal, but most approved of the Soriano deal at the time.
...and curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid git.
by t ball on Apr 26, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a lot of people wanted pitching
but it was definitely the best deal of the ones reported at the time
Rare Gnats Sex
by ab03 on Apr 26, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still approve of it
Along with the Teixeira deal.
And the Gagne deal.
And the Lofton deal.
I do have a concern that it seems like most of the good deals that Daniels has made are as a seller of older talent. When it has been deals with younger players or prospects the misses outweigh the hits.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
by DaheelzCM on Apr 26, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
older vs. younger
Seems like a good general statement thus far. One worry I have about Daniels is: as the team enters a contention window in a couple of years (we hope) will he be able to identify the right pieces to pick up to finish the job.
...and curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid git.
by t ball on Apr 26, 2008 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disappointing offensive seasons?
He was a 30/30 man!!!!
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
by DaheelzCM on Apr 26, 2008 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Compare his TX seasons
to his last two in NY. He was good, but not nearly as good as expected. He was average in 2004, and slightly above in 2005 (109 OPS+). Good, but far from great.
...and curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid git.
by t ball on Apr 26, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sarcasm...
Sorry about that.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
by DaheelzCM on Apr 26, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+ 1
Is there anything left over from the Soriano trade at all? Damn it would of been nice to have gotten a couple of hot prospects who would be ripe for the picking about now. I think it’s fair to evaluate a trade once the dust has settled. The dust has settled and I don’t see much left from the Soriano trade, just the bad taste left in the mouth of having Whiffy for 2 years. Who was the other player in the deal? Was it Termel Sledge? I believe he’s in the Padre minors at age 31.
I think we can say that trade was a failure, maybe not colossal but not far from it. If we got all those nuggets for Gagne we should have SOMETHING to show for Soriano besides using the money for something else.
The "Electrician" was born 7/16/07 11:53 PM EDT
http://www.lonestarball.com/2007/7/16/213154/893
by LAMuscleFag on Apr 26, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately
You can’t make other GM’s take on all of the crap that came with Soriano.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
by DaheelzCM on Apr 26, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but quite honestly...
this dead horse has been beat sooo many times it’s not even recongnizable. The maggots have come and gone. It’s just a pile of smashed bones at this point.
The "Electrician" was born 7/16/07 11:53 PM EDT
http://www.lonestarball.com/2007/7/16/213154/893
by LAMuscleFag on Apr 26, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
recognizable*
The "Electrician" was born 7/16/07 11:53 PM EDT
http://www.lonestarball.com/2007/7/16/213154/893
by LAMuscleFag on Apr 26, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
We could have kept him, played him at 2B, left Kinsler in AAA another year, not signed Millwood, and had two draft picks when Soriano left.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 26, 2008 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or we could have grown a pair
and moved him to the outfield like Frank Robinson did, and still brought up Kinsler.
At some point though, every GMs trades get judged in hindsight, and whether you are bad, or unlucky, eventually bad results get you fired. Hopefully JD has a couple more years in him. It just seems to me that once you go down the rebuilding path, you ought to get a couple of years grace. I’d be more excited about it though if was saw more young players, like Saltalamacchia, at the beginning of the year.
"Before I leave, I once again condemn the despicable buffoonery of D.J. Cahill." - Huck
by DJCahill on Apr 26, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In which case...
...we’d have been paying $10-12 million for a guy who put up EQAs of .260 and .274 the previous two seasons to play left field (a position he’d never played before).
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 26, 2008 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
JD
This talk just makes my eyes glaze over. Everyone agrees that JD has made mistakes, but I think we could all agree that he’s done some really good things, especially in upgrading the minors. I feel that JD has done some great things in beefing up the scouting department, lobbying for more bonus money, and reinvigorating the teams efforts at obtaining foreign players.
Change for change’s sake does not lead to better results. Do we really want an older, retread GM? Let’s have stability and consistenty in this organization.
by Randy Richardson on Apr 26, 2008 3:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
JD (probably Hicks) philosophies
pre April 2007
add pieces via FA signings and trades, compete now
post April 2007
rebuild farm system via draft and trades
Only if you consider the appropriate philosopy can you accurately judge JD’s trades and FA signings.
Max Ramirez 2008 Texas Rangers ROY
by RangerMad on Apr 26, 2008 3:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto etc.
That is not me in the photo, so relax.
by rldwb on Apr 26, 2008 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
my ditto is for randy richardson
That is not me in the photo, so relax.
by rldwb on Apr 26, 2008 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Precisely
pre: Not so good
post: Good
Should you not also judge Wash in the same way?
I'd rather be Blind, Crippled, & Crazy
by Clueless on Apr 26, 2008 3:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Somebody has to do it.....
Galarraga with a No-No through 5.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
by DaheelzCM on Apr 26, 2008 4:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
OMG
The "Electrician" was born 7/16/07 11:53 PM EDT
http://www.lonestarball.com/2007/7/16/213154/893
by LAMuscleFag on Apr 26, 2008 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OMG
The "Electrician" was born 7/16/07 11:53 PM EDT
http://www.lonestarball.com/2007/7/16/213154/893
by LAMuscleFag on Apr 26, 2008 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
woops
The "Electrician" was born 7/16/07 11:53 PM EDT
http://www.lonestarball.com/2007/7/16/213154/893
by LAMuscleFag on Apr 26, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
woops
just one OMG…although I feel like 2.
The "Electrician" was born 7/16/07 11:53 PM EDT
http://www.lonestarball.com/2007/7/16/213154/893
by LAMuscleFag on Apr 26, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Daniels' "low-risk" moves this offseason aren't looking very good right now...
Fukumori – just looks awful, sent down once already; signed only to show the rest of the league that we’re scouting the Far East.
Jennings – obviously not 100%... or just not that good…
Guardado – only three appearances this year
Bradley – obviously not 100%
Nippert – no comment
Broussard – no comment
Laird – given a one-year contract only so he could be moved… but you’re not likely to get much for him anyway…
Galaragga – what’s funny about this is that Hernandez isn’t even with the club anymore.
those of you who are so in love with the Atlanta and Boston trades need to recognize that he bears a lot of responsibility for this start.
"There's something to be said for just plugging away and not feeling very sorry for yourself.'' - Terry Francona
by oc on Apr 26, 2008 4:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bradley was a great signing
Nobody expected him to be back to 100% in April. I think you’ll be surprised at what he’ll fetch at the deadline.
"I hope it's a special dumb person hell so that I don’t have to meet up with you after I die."
- The D-tron
by Chase Irwin on Apr 27, 2008 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah,
I didn’t expect this team to be great, but its the guys playing underneath their normal levels, like MY and Kinsler that are irritating me.
When you see Cat screw up a play in the OF like last night, or Broussard look like crap, or Laird being unable to hit, its tough to blame the players, because they are what they are, and you have to blame management for bringing in crap players like that.
I didn’t expect MY and Kinsler to completely forget how to play defense though. I expect MY to have no range, but I expect him to make the play when they are hit at him.
"Before I leave, I once again condemn the despicable buffoonery of D.J. Cahill." - Huck
by DJCahill on Apr 27, 2008 6:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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