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Around SBN: All Hail David Luiz

Scouting score card?

The DFA of Wilkerson got me thinking about how badly we've missed on scouting for trades.  I'm not whining about past trades, but wondering-- is there a score card for the scouts who gave the thumbs up on these guys?  Do we need to replace the scouts?  Are they good, but JD is not listening to them?

We probably had limited options when trading Soriano, but someone had to have been very persuasive in thinking Wilkerson would be able to come close to matching Soriano's offensive output, otherwise we would have been better off keeping Soriano and letting him walk as a FA-- and getting picks.  A. Galarraga seems to be an anomaly, but someone obviously thought he was less likely than Tejeda to contribute at the MLB level.

McCarthy for Danks still needs to play out, but the idea there was we would be able to skip a year of development for a young, cheap starting pitcher.  Someone had to think that McCarthy would be a significant upgrade over Danks and sell it to management that it was worth the risk, even though the organization really needed to develop a starter from within.

Not to beat the Young <-> Eaton deal further to death, but it seems we at least sold low on A. Gonzalez and mis-judged Eaton's ability.

Obviously, JD is on the face of the deals, but there had to be other voices in the room that were confident these were the right players coming back.  How do you consistently miss this badly?

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That's a reasonable answer..

.. and perhaps is a reason JD shifted to pure talent at any level, in the full ‘rebuilding’ mode for the ‘07 trades. The only problem with that, is that the team must have mis-judged its MLB level talent thinking it was closer than they really were. Especially after the ‘04 season.

by mattrpav on Apr 30, 2008 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Trades

Yes there are scouts that give their imput but ultimately it is the GM who makes the decision. Now the trades you mention are not necessarily good examples. The Sori trade was one where we were in a low-zero leverage situation with an All Star caliber player. At the time Wilkerson was thought highly of throughout the league and just like other players had he been healthy after coming here who knows what happens. You can blame that trade more on Sori making it public he would not move to the outfield thus negating any and all upperhand we may have had.

The Danks trade didn’t need much convincing. McCarthy had a much better minor league track record, major league experience, and was still very young. Oh and he had no injury history.

by bigsteve on Apr 30, 2008 5:27 PM CDT reply actions  

I didn't know Wilkerson was well thought throughout the league.

I thought the reviews on him were a mixed bag, but he had a high OBP.

by mattrpav on Apr 30, 2008 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

this is definitely more accurate

i think wilkerson projected to do well in texas but not everybody was down with the projections. there were some “if’s” involved that people disagreed on, but from what I remember, more people than not thought it was a good trade.

however, the main problem with wilkerson was that there wasn’t proper medical scouting done.

Rare Gnats Sex

by ab03 on Apr 30, 2008 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

As I remember it...

No one was questioning Wilkerson at the time of the trade… they were all mad that JD didn’t get a pitcher.

by Inkara1 on Apr 30, 2008 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Where do you stand on the Danks/B-Mac trade?

You’ve defended it 20+ separate times. Who are you trying to convince?
It’s OK…nobody’s going to hurt JD…he’s safely tucked in.

I'd rather be Blind, Crippled, & Crazy

by Clueless on Apr 30, 2008 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I approve of it

Have since we made it. Only reason I have to keep defending it is idiotic people who point to McCarthy being injured and say “his injury history” when thats not true. If you want to pull some stats from the time of the trade that show it was a bad trade I am all ears. But the simple fact is people fell in love with John Danks because hes from Texas, hes lefty, and we drafted him when McCarthy had the better numbers. Righty/lefty, Texan or not all I want on this team is the better players. At the time of the trade McCarthy was the better player and was still very young.

by bigsteve on May 1, 2008 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

thoughts

arod trade: clearly sori was the goal in that deal, but cano was not as well though of as arias was IIRC

wilkerson trade: we didnt have better options here either i dont think. wilk was the (main) goal and gallagara was a throw in here too

danks for mccarthy: the understanding was that you were trading a guy who was a year ahead and might have had a slightly lower ceiling but was more likely to reach it for a guy who was a few years off and had a higher ceiling, just was less likely to reach it. injuries were not a concern for anyone in the deal here either IIRC

eaton deal: people thought eaton had (finally) harnessed his stuff after that awesome strech. clearly he didnt. adrian gonzalez was someone the org i thought was never very high on for whatever reason. hes a GG caliber 1b, and his power was coming back (also think he might have had a wrist injury that sapped his power?) trading him was foolish even if he was “blocked” at the major league level. they should have kept adrian/rotated him and teix between DH and 1b or moved one of them to LF. period. end of story. adrian being traded was a boneheaded decision. also, who knew that CY would do as well as he had. i have said it before and will say it again but if you put him in any (almost) other park in the league he is not that great of a pitcher, he is in an EXTREME pitchers park. throw him in cincy and lets see how good he is.

anyway, typically PTNBL or throw ins arent expected to be great players. i doubt that he is “not listening to the scouts” if this was the case either they would be gone or he would be gone (think moneyball – beane vs scouts).

what should have been done was push sorianio to the OF and switch sori + whoever you bump to the OF (teix?) between DH and OF, keeping both of them healthy/not having to play a ton of games in the OF.

Every loss is one step closer to the top of the draft in 2009!

by knockoutking on Apr 30, 2008 5:51 PM CDT reply actions  

The main thing

that bothers me about Chris Young is not how good he is doing now, but how good he was with the team in this ballpark before he was traded. We had found one guy who could actually pitch for this team effectively and then got rid of him.

The Eagle has landed....

by Lonerangers on Apr 30, 2008 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also,

With AG, why were we so afraid to insert him at DH? It just upsets me that, if I remember correctly, we were still trying to hold onto dinosaurs like raffy. I know this wouldnt have taken advantage of his glove, but we still would have gotten to see if his bat was major league worthy. Remember we freaking stole him from the Marlins who at that time valued Jason Stokes over him.

by booyahcaveman on Apr 30, 2008 11:42 PM CDT reply actions  

yea

i think they thought moving him to LF would waste his glove.

dumbdumbdumb

Every loss is one step closer to the top of the draft in 2009!

by knockoutking on May 1, 2008 1:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

JD

You have to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the early trades. He’s a young GM and mistakes were inevitable. What you have to look for is he learning from his mistakes? He’s admitted to screwing up some trades and trying to make a splash to compete when it wasn’t realistic. But, his past 3 big trades have all been huge successes thus far.

Misses: San Diego Trade/ The DH Situation

Jury Still out/ Not his fault- BMac trade/ Sori trade

Hits- So far Hamilton/ Teixeira/ Gagne

Those are the big ones that come to mind but I still have no problem with his direction. Not real happy with the way Botts situation but at least it was for Chris Shelton who’s prob just as likely to contribute to our team. Hopefully Chris Davis puts the whole first base situation to rest.

by slimshadty12 on May 1, 2008 6:25 PM CDT reply actions  

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