On pulling Gabbard
Last night, with an 11-0 lead, Ron Washington pulled Kason Gabbard after Gabbard had thrown 92 pitches in 7 innings. I thought that was a rather obvious, non-controversial decision.
However, it sparked a lot of discussion in the game day thread, particularly after the Angels rallied in the 9th, and I wanted to follow up some of my comments there with some thoughts on the situation.
First of all, I think it was the right move, and even if the Angels had rallied to score 12 runs and win 12-11 last night, I would be defending pulling Gabbard after 7 innings.
It was Gabbard's first start of the season. Gabbard is a guy with a history of fragility...his injury history is part of the reason the BoSox were willing to move him last year in the Eric Gagne trade. And Gabbard hasn't exactly been a workhorse in the past...in the majors, he's pitched more than 7 innings only once. And he's gone over 100 pitches only 4 times -- twice 102 pitches, and twice 107 pitches.
So I think, in general, with Gabbard, he's someone you don't want to push. You're trying to keep him fresh for the full season. He isn't going to go farther than the 8th anyway, and if he allows a baserunner you are going to end up pulling him, so I think it probably makes sense to go ahead and give him the final two innings off anyway.
And then there's the issue of the bullpen...there was an off-day on Thursday, and will be an off-day on Monday, so your pen is fully rested now and will be fully rested at the end of this three game series. No reliever, going into yesterday's game, had appeared more than once, and Josh Rupe and Dustin Nippert hadn't appeared in a game at all.
Plus, you have your top two pitchers going on Saturday and Sunday...so you've got a well-rested pen with two guys who haven't pitched, you aren't expecting to need a ton of innings the next couple of days, and you've got an off-day coming up on Monday. It seems like, in regards to the 8 man pen you are currently carrying, you have more of a problem with not getting guys enough work moreso than wearing guys out.
So I think the way Washington planned it out last night is the way I'd probably do it. You give an inning to Kaz Fukumori, a guy who pitched well this spring and who you expect to be a significant contributor, but who was awful in his season debut, so he can get back out there and get back on track in a low-pressure situation. Then you put Rupe or, more likely, the new acquisition (and long reliever) Nippert, out there to get 3 outs with an 11 run lead in the 9th.
Now, Nippert was awful, and had to get yanked, which meant Franklyn German and Eddie Guardado both had to come in...but so what? Everyone who pitched yesterday (except for Nippert) will be available to pitch today, and you still have your two big guns -- C.J. Wilson and Joaquin Benoit -- who have appeared only once this season. I'd wager than, even if it is a blowout tonight, Benoit and Wilson will both pitch, if only to get some work in, since they can still pitch Sunday as well and then have the Monday offday.
So, while I don't always agree with Washington's bullpen management, yesterday I think he did the right thing.
0 recs |
73 comments
Comments
Nippert
Maybe put him in next time with a 10 run lead and 2 out in the 9th. That's a good spot for him.
I guarandamntee you that if you tried to bounce a few chocolate bars by Gerald Laird he would block every one of them.
by LAMuscleFag on Apr 5, 2008 1:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't agree more...
Gabbard's injury history plus the bullpen situation make it a no-brainer, imo.
Plus, given what we saw last night, when else would you want Nippert making his debut? You've got to see what he's capable of some time.
The win wasn't in jeopardy, and I'm guessing an 11-0 win means more to the fan base than the team itself, given that the players (aside from Nippert) know they played well enough to win by a ridiculous margin.
by MeanMr.Mustard on Apr 5, 2008 1:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
so how long does Nippert..
have to stay on the 25 man roster before he goes to OKC for a lit'l touch up? How much longer before we know if Robbie T has cleared waivers?
I guarandamntee you that if you tried to bounce a few chocolate bars by Gerald Laird he would block every one of them.
by LAMuscleFag on Apr 5, 2008 1:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well
I don't know if you can send him to OKC for a touch up, since he'd have to clear waivers.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 5, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
AJM, why didn't you
just email this missive to Gdawg?
;)
...it's the weekend, so why the hell not?
by Rodney on Apr 5, 2008 1:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Pretty Much
I think we were all in the same line of thought that pulling Gabbard was the right move except for G.
White Women!
by nikpin on Apr 5, 2008 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I found the whole discussion about keeping Gabbard in a little strange. Its the first week of the season! Lets be happy with 7 shutout innings...
I think there is a strong desire to see the Rangers get a shutout or even just a complete game. The fans of this team need it. But there is no reason to risk a young arm this early in the year just for that, especially with the bullpen situation what it was.
Besides, if it had been 92 pitches in 8 innings, I could see him going back out there. But 92 through 7 means that he'd have to get to near 120 to get the complete game. That's too much.
by JBImaknee on Apr 5, 2008 1:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ha
ron washington showing better in game management than buck maybe?
and while gabbard looked efficient the last couple of innings, chances were that those last two innings weren't going to be 1-2-3. let him end on a high note.
and what's teh big deal about nippert coming in and giving up 6 runs. He's allowed to give up 10 runs. a win's a win and that win was never in jeopardy. tying run never came up to the plate.
by ab03 on Apr 5, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i won't argue on a single game
situation, but rather on the trend of the organization to "protect" its pitchers from "overuse". It isn't exactly working out for them, and for good reason. As far as getting the relievers some work, there's 2 bullpen pitching mounds and 2 bullpen catchers, so put em to good use.
by SteveP on Apr 5, 2008 2:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
so
because the rangers starters have a propensity of getting injured, we should leave them in longer anyway?
BTW, this trend to protect pitchers is only a year old. Buck wasn't always great about it.
by ab03 on Apr 5, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
by limiting their work, they're training for this level of work. Which is fine, if you're satisfied with 6 inning pitchers who max out at 100 pitches. Mix in a few double plays and you might get through 7.
by SteveP on Apr 5, 2008 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question
How many pitches do you think would be appropriate?
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 5, 2008 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
beware the simple straightforward
question from the attorney. I'm always looking for the case you're building behind it.
Let me put it this way. If it were up to me, these guys would be throwing 150 pitch bullpens at game speed.
by SteveP on Apr 5, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I might be wrong
but building armstrength is what bullpen sessions and throwing days are for isn't it? Since a pitcher already has to repeat a throwing motion a lot of times, isn't it a bit senseless to force them to do so in tough, in game situations? If we want to build up armstrength, there are excercises for that, it's not necessarily only done on the field.
by FirebatM3 on Apr 5, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well this takes this way off topic
but I don't arm strength has much to do with pitching.
by SteveP on Apr 5, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its an interesting theory
but i don't think it is true. but i also think that pitchers will get left in past 100 pitches later on in the year
by ab03 on Apr 5, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
me being wrong
is always a distinct possibility.
by SteveP on Apr 5, 2008 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: Cubs fans chanting "Fu-ku-do-me"
Then he delivers a 2-run go-ahead base hit to LF, where Carlos Lee manages to butcher the play, allowing him an extra base.
"You are this month's NYTXFAN." - t ball
by Chase Irwin on Apr 5, 2008 2:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It makes no sense to wear out your starting
pitcher no matter how well he is pitching, you always need him ready and rested another day. Gabbard was looking a little gassed by the end of the seventh inning, and baseball is a "show," you never really know or get to see what is going on behind the curtain. You have to trust the manager is making the right decision.
If only GA had hit that one over the fence.......
Scioscia, "Roll the hole!"
by 44FAN on Apr 5, 2008 2:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
then the Halos would have lost 11-9 rather than 11-6.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Apr 5, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"You are this month's NYTXFAN." - t ball
by Chase Irwin on Apr 5, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's three ways of telling the truth:
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Scioscia, "Roll the hole!"
by 44FAN on Apr 5, 2008 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the difference
we don't trust our manager as much as you...haven't for a long time. but i think he was right in this case
by ab03 on Apr 5, 2008 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pulling Gabbard Was The Right Move
If nothing else, we can take heart that Ron Washington isn't Dusty Baker when it comes to riding pitchers' arms onto the surgical table.
I'd agree with all Adam's points about Gabbard's history and fragility and also add that he had a less-than-impressive Spring Training. Instead of letting a guy with a history of injuries pitch an abnormal amount, pull him after a deep start and, statistically speaking, one of the best starts of his career. Not to mention a quality start against our most hated opponents in the AL West.
by Mister Naxal on Apr 5, 2008 2:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree Adam
I just watched the last 4 innings or so, but was happy with how it was all handled. If I would have changed anything, I would have left Nippert out there for one more batter. Even if he gives up a HR there, it's 11-7.
Still, this is all burying the lead to some degree. Gabbard got the result and Broussard came up with a big hit, and it was all against the LAAAAAAAAAngels.
by GhettoBear04 on Apr 5, 2008 2:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It was a rather obvious move...
Kason has not gone over 110 pitches in a single outing in his career. So even if he pitches the 8th you still need someone for the 9th.Plus it's the first game of the year for him, and after he rolled his ankle he had to be feeling it a little in the 7th.
Last night was a perfect scenerio to get Fuku and Nippert in the game with a huge lead. Fuku looked ok and Nippert didn't. Better to find out about Nippert in a 11-0 game rather than a 4-2 game. I think Wash handled things fine yesterday.
I would also like to take this time to appologize to BB for all the negative things I have said about him. He really came through last night. That said, I still think he stinks. :)
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Apr 5, 2008 2:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I was just telling my wife
how much BB sucks when he smacked that grand slam over the fence. I lost a little of my baseball genius halo at that moment...
by JBImaknee on Apr 5, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that happens with me and my girlfriend
way too many times than it should. i'm right a lot of the times too, but we don't remember those times.
by ab03 on Apr 5, 2008 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adam
Nice post -- I agree completely with Worsh's rationale in this instance.
Question is, how long of a leash do you give Nippy?
"You are this month's NYTXFAN." - t ball
by Chase Irwin on Apr 5, 2008 3:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i didn't see the last inning
but i would leave him in until the tying run is on the on deck circle. is that when they ended up pulling him?
by ab03 on Apr 5, 2008 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pulling Gabbard
Easy decision. Right decision. No issue.
by Chris Hanes on Apr 5, 2008 3:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If for nothing else...
we need to see what some of these bottom 3-4 relievers have, so we can make an informed decision on April 12th.
"that suzuki guy should go back to making cars" - My girlfriend after C.J.'s close in game 2
by tdi1985 on Apr 5, 2008 3:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
People will
do anything to put down Washington, kind of sad.
Milton Bradley for MVP
by miles on Apr 5, 2008 3:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Washington
I do not like Washington AT ALL but it was the right move .... Fukadora was the right move as well as Nippert etc.
Wash bashing is just way to easy.
by RingoRanger on Apr 5, 2008 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: Frisco
Taylor Teagarden homers to score John Mayberry Jr. to tie it up 2-2.
by FirebatM3 on Apr 5, 2008 3:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Back to Back
max Ramirez homers, Frisco with the lead!
by FirebatM3 on Apr 5, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: todays broadcast
does anyone know if the game is on FSN?
by phina on Apr 5, 2008 3:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
it is in FSN
" Winning doesn't always mean being first,
winning means you are doing better than you have done before"
by coolaid on Apr 5, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My argument
Gabbard was at 92 pitches. Not 120, not 110, not even at 100. I don't think everyone fully understands that. I'm not hoping that Wash becomes Dusty Baker by leaving Gabbard out there for one extra inning. 100 pitches has become the standard warning sign these days of a pitcher needing to get pulled. So why when Gabbard was looking great and his ankle didn't appear to be any problem was he being pulled so much earlier than that. I've seen pitchers go past the 100 pitch mark all the time and nothing bad happens as a result of it.
As I said in the gameday thread, Gabbard has 19 Major League starts to go with 96 minor league starts. He is turning 26 in a few days. Sure he's had injury problems in the past, but from what I recall, last season's lengthy DL stint was mainly a precaution in a lost season. At one point or another, you have to stop looking at Gabbard as a young rookie and see him as a Major League pitcher who should be able to at least make 100 pitches in a game whether its over 8 innings or 5 innings. Do you think that a pitcher like Kevin Millwood would be pulled at 90 pitches?
I don't understand also why its a big deal if he goes out there in the 8th inning and has to be pulled in the middle of the inning. You tell him he can go out there but he'll be pulled at the first sign of trouble. He should understand that and there is no issue here.
Now why I would much rather have seen Gabbard out there for one more inning was because of the unknown. As we saw, giving our bullpen some extra innings was an awful idea in the end. Sure, Fukomori got an inning in. He could have done that in the 9th instead of the 8th. What happened was that the Rangers let a couple of the last options in the pen get destroyed. So instead of the Rangers having basically a full bullpen fully rested for today's game, we had to use 4 guys yesterday. What if today's game goes into extra innings? The Rangers lose a significant advantage in having a much fresher bullpen than the Angels in that case.
by Gdawg on Apr 5, 2008 4:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Gabbard rolled his
ankle in the 7th (?) inning and the offense scored 5 runs in the top of the eight so the ankle could have gotten a little stiff between the 7th and the 8th becasue he had to sit in the dugout for an extended period of time. There is really no need to risk a serious ankle injury for 8 pitches.
" Winning doesn't always mean being first,
winning means you are doing better than you have done before"
by coolaid on Apr 5, 2008 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If his ankle was a serious concern
Then by all means, I will accept Wash's judgment and say nothing about it. But his ankle to me didn't look that bad. Hell, I twist my ankle all the time. Walking it off has usually been the best solution for that. Gabbard did just that. It hurt for a little but then he went back on the mound and did his thing.
by Gdawg on Apr 5, 2008 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
but what coolaid said, ankles stiffen up and swell when you leave them be. and, in general, i think the fact that the top half of the inning was so long is important. Pitchers tend to tighten up anyway and have issues after resting for too long. If I remember correctly, it looked like he was going to come back out but then that idea probably just got tabled after the hit parade.
also, doesn't the fact that we got non pressure work in for nippert, fukumori outweigh the extra inning of work gabbard would have gotten?
by ab03 on Apr 5, 2008 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fukomori would have gotten his work in anyways
He would have come in the 9th. I really don't think Nippert coming into the game was a positive in any way.
by Gdawg on Apr 5, 2008 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Nippert got some work in, got to show us how bad he sucks, and it didn't cost us anything but a little pride.
Would you have rather he come into a game with a 3-4 run lead and given up 6 runs? He needed to pitch, he hadn't pitched in over a week. Hopefully, his next outing will be better now that he's gotten that bad one out of the way.
by lonestarJon on Apr 5, 2008 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
"As we saw, giving our bullpen some extra innings was an awful idea in the end"
Insane, just because Nippert was awful, doesn't mean it was a bad decision. If Millwood gets shelled today, does that mean it was a bad decision to start him? No. You had an 11 run lead, when else are these guys going to pitch?
"So instead of the Rangers having basically a full bullpen fully rested for today's game, we had to use 4 guys yesterday. What if today's game goes into extra inning?"
Well, I guess they'll have to somehow make due with Wilson, Benoit, Fuk, German, Wright, Eddie and Rupe. I think somehow they'll manage to make it through. There is a reason that you have an 8 man bullpen this time of year. To protect yourself against these kind of things without getting someone hurt early in the season. Nippert was beyond awful. The "Round ball/Round bat Theory" says that I should be able to get three outs before the other team scores 11, much less a big league pitcher. This was the right move, no question about it.
by badradiorules on Apr 5, 2008 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: gameday thread
is it possible to get the gameday thread a little earlier this early into the season?
comment on a few other games going on, early discussion of matchup and such... im anxious =p
by DSheppard on Apr 5, 2008 4:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
OT -- Dontrelle Willis
5ip, 1h, 3er, 7bb, 0so
" Winning doesn't always mean being first,
winning means you are doing better than you have done before"
by coolaid on Apr 5, 2008 4:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He's unhittable
because he can't throw it near the plate.
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by RangerMad on Apr 5, 2008 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poor Tigers
They should have just traded for Miggy, and left it at that, but they let the Marlins lump the D-Trainwreck in there as well.
It may be early in the season, but the Tigers don't look so hot. I still say the Indians win that division again.
Remember when the Rangers where thinking about trading for Dontrellle? Thank god that didn't happen.
by lonestarJon on Apr 5, 2008 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
eh
i think getting willis was a good move since they were probably giving him away and the tigers pitching depth isnt great right now with bondermans falloff.
the possible mistake was the big extension contract. i still have some faith in him though.
by DSheppard on Apr 5, 2008 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He actually had the no-no going into the 6th.
Thats a crazy line for sure.
White Women!
by nikpin on Apr 5, 2008 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
COME ABOARD THE DEEEETRAIN!!
BooYahh
Adam loves him some Lard
by NYTXFAN on Apr 5, 2008 5:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
OT: Ncaa
"They said it was impossible for four 1 seeds to make the final four.............But they also said it was impossible to get real coke taste with zero calories.
Now that was a smooth plug that made me laugh
by phina on Apr 5, 2008 5:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yea I saw that...
Some of those coke zero commercials are pretty good.
White Women!
by nikpin on Apr 5, 2008 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cristian Santana
His first full-season AB results in a double down the line driving in Paisano from 2nd.
Beltre was pulled after his first AB - Paisano moved over to CF. No idea why. Kinda worrisome.
by shroomer on Apr 5, 2008 5:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why did Wash pull German?
I was not sure why Wash brings in German and faced the PH Willits who is a switch hitter. I thought he got lucky and just slapped a pitch to left field. Not a bad pitch. Then he brings in Eddie the lefty to face a RH in Hunter. I think he should of left in German to face Hunter. Just a thought, do not have a problem at all pulling Gabbard. Lets go Millwood keep the starters rollin'
by Ranger Capt on Apr 5, 2008 6:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, Wash knows German has less than stellar control
No doubt he didn't want to give up anymore runs, so he brought in Guardado, who is kind of his "option B" for closer and setup guy. He just wanted to make sure we didn't give up anymore runs.
If it where me, I would have brought Guardado in in the first place, and never used German.
by lonestarJon on Apr 5, 2008 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Evan Reed
Reed outdueling bonus baby Jordan Walden through 6.
Reed: 6IP, 4H, 2BB, 6K, 0ER
by badradiorules on Apr 5, 2008 6:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Reed
Nice line, but he's a college draftee (and a rather high one) pitching in the MWL...he should be putting up very good lines...
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 5, 2008 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously
But, he is doing what he's supposed to do.
by badradiorules on Apr 5, 2008 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: Directv...
so I just switched to Directv and purchased their MLB package. I have a question though. I'm leaving tonight and would like to record the game. There are 2 channels with the game. One is the Rangers feed and the other is the Halos. Is there anyway to find out which is which? I don't want to record the game and be stuck listening to Hudler or the Angels anouncers, not that Lewin is much better. I guess my other option would be to record both. Anyone else with Directv that could help would be appreciated.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Apr 5, 2008 7:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Caught the Angels feed last night
The most in demand speaker on the motivational circuit today was nowhere to be found. They had 2 different guys, who weren't nearly as bad.
But just tune it to 643, you're guaranteed to get Grieve and the geek.
As for the 700 channels, I don't know of any way to tell ahead of time.
Rex Hudler is in demand as a motivational speaker.
by Brian Thomas on Apr 5, 2008 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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