5/12/08 Minors
by FirebatM3 on May 12, 2008 4:24 PM CDT
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Early game for Oklaholma today as the starters-deprived Redhawks pieced together a 7-6 win thanks largely to the performance of an already over-taxed bullpen and the strength of some good hitting.
John Mayberry Jr. and Joaquin Arias both go 2-4, with Mayberry hitting his 3rd OKC home run off of former blue-chip prospect Jesse Foppert.
Frisco loses, Mad Max goes for an ofer, but Davis has a walk and a single, and the King has his 2nd double of the year.
I am also doing the Mock draft for minorleaguebal.com, and this is a good of a forum as any to start draft discussion. So I guess the question tonight would be -
What do you think is this organization's area of greatest need?
OKC Box
| Oklahoma | ||||||||||
| Player | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | AVG |
| Ellison CF | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | .264 |
| Byrd LF | 4 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 1 | .333 |
| Botts DH | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | .176 |
| Gold 1B | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | .254 |
| Mayberry RF | 4 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 1 | .370 |
| Roberts 3B | 4 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .262 |
| Arias, J 2B | 4 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | .306 |
| Teagarden C | 4 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .281 |
| Meyer SS | 3 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 1 | .269 |
| Rowe P | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .000 |
| Littleton P | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .000 |
| Fukumori P | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .000 |
| Madrigal P | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .000 |
| Oklahoma | ||||||||
| Player | IP | H | R | ER | BB | SO | HR | ERA |
| Rowe | 3.0 | 7 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 3.78 |
| Littleton (W, 2-0) | 2.0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 5.06 |
| Fukumori (H, 3) | 2.2 | 4 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 1.93 |
| Madrigal (S, 1) | 1.1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 3 | 1 | 2.70 |
Frisco Box
| Frisco | ||||||||||
| Player | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | AVG |
| Gentry CF | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | .275 |
| Andrus, El SS | 4 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | .271 |
| Ramirez, M C | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | .383 |
| Davis, C 1B | 3 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | .326 |
| Murphy, S LF | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | .317 |
| Harrison, B DH | 3 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | .310 |
| Frostad, E 3B | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | .300 |
| Majewski RF | 3 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | .286 |
| Ragsdale 2B | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | .250 |
| Schlact P | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .000 |
| Laughter P | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .000 |
| Batista P | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .000 |
| Player | IP | H | R | ER | BB | SO | HR | ERA |
| Schlact (L, 1-3) | 5.2 | 7 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 4.73 |
| Laughter | 1.1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 3.86 |
| Batista | 1.0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 2.76 |
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Comments
Heh, I'm laughing
because after the mock draft diary below devolved into an argument about the number of rounds, now there will be another argument started because you asked about drafting a need. Just draft the consensus best player available, don’t worry about need.
...and curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid git.
If there was a thing as the consensus "BPA"
it’d make this a lot easier. The problem is how you make that distinction.
Say if by some stroke of fate, we’re picking at #11 and a college pitcher like Tanner Scheppers and a good HS hitter like Eric Hosmer are both avaliable. There’s no consensus on who is better.
Yes there is a consensus on who is better
And it is Homser.
"If we where [sic] gonna trade them Salty, I would want a helluva lot more than just Joba though." -lonestarJon
by thedirkatron on May 12, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Kevin Goldstein
has Scheppers as a better prospect than either Aaron Crow or Shooter Hunt. John Sickles, likewise, believes that he might be the best college arm in this draft.
There are personal preferences, but no consensus.
Yeah
Scheppers has to be very tempting. I’d be overjoyed if they drafted and signed either of those guys. I don’t think you could go wrong, and I really doubt you’ll have that choice to make.
by Brett Perryman on May 12, 2008 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course, I'm being shortsighted in that
because if Sickels is going 5 rounds, there will be no consensus for many of those picks after the first 25 guys or so.
Someone below mentioned a poll, but I don’t think that would work. I don’t think you’ll have a real difficult time with the first pick because there will be a lot of top talent still on the board. Those guys are being talked about a lot, and you’ll be able to pinpoint a couple of guys that you’ll want if they’re available.
It’s the later rounds that will be tricky. Those players will be talked about much less and then you’re looking for players that have fallen through the cracks; guys who have been mentioned a lot in the MODs but for some reason not picked yet.
Eh, what do I know. I don’t follow the draft stuff very much, I don’t get too interested in players until they turn pro. Z’s massive post below is probably a good foundation.
...and curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid git.
+1
Though He will likely be gone by that time since guys running those sorts of mocks tend to draft the guy they like best and not worry about bonus demands and stuff like that.
"If we where [sic] gonna trade them Salty, I would want a helluva lot more than just Joba though." -lonestarJon
by thedirkatron on May 12, 2008 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Hodges
What sucks about Hodges pitching tonight is that it means it will be his turn again Saturday night when Frisco is on local TV. Harrison or Schlact woulda been nice to see. Maybe Mendoza rehabbing. Even giving Ballard the hairy eyeball woulda been okay. But no.
Pray for Tommy Hunter to get promoted this week because it would push somebody more interesting onto our TV screens Saturday. Instead it looks like it’s gonna be either Hodges or Dittler.
BTW, per Jason Cole, Frisco just added ex-Colorado farmhand Zack Parker to the bullpen outta the independent leagues.
Yay
I love me some minor league journeymen.
To be fair, there’s not a lot of pitching to be excited about in Frisco. Maybe they can air Lumberking games.
Proposal to prevent argument about "need"
Let’s try this:
Think of a grid: Across the top is “almost ready” (ie, college) and “3-4 years ready” (ie HS).
The rows would be: pitcher, catcher, corner, and center of diamond.
Maybe we can agree that these designations can frame a discussion.
Finally, I agree with Firebat: who knows who is the BPA?
Remarks
Well
They aren’t just hurting in any area, imo, but I don’t know that I can point to any spot other than catcher where I wouldn’t mind an impact guy.
Pitching first, you have the hope that Hurley gets back on track and then basically back of the rotation type starting prospects down through High A, Kiker being the one guy who seems somewhat likely to break that mold one way or another. Murray, Harrison, Hunter, Reed, Phillips, Diamond, Poveda are all worthwhile arms, but none are going to move to the key part of the rotation. And frankly, Kiker probably isn’t either. Among young major league pitchers, Feldman, Mendoza and Gabbard are the same thing. McCarthy has the potential to be at least a #3 if he could turn around his fortunes, but I think that he’s the only one. And with Volquez gone, he and Hurley are really the only guys after Millwood and Padilla who have any realistic chance of filling a 1-3 starter role, and we know Millwood’s and Padilla’s shortcomings.
So if you are looking at need, a SP with the real potential to be a 1-3 starter, who can beat the likes of Main, Beavan, Feliz & Castillo to the majors by a year or so (in other words, a college pitcher) is definitely a need in my opinion. A HS pitcher really isn’t a need per se. The problem is that even when you’re picking 11, the likelihood that you can pick and sign a college pitcher who looks likely to join the front half of your rotation is really pretty low. EVERYONE at the top of the draft wants one of those.
I don’t think that the organization is necessarily loaded with MIF players, but unless a Beckham were to fall, I don’t know that what you would add would enhance your position very much. Arias and Andrus both offer defensively oriented guys, and they’re both as close as virtually any draft prospect would be. If there were an impact HS SS, I’d have positional interest, but the youth of Andrus and Kinsler, along with the riskiness of that sort of player after the very elite types, makes that less tantalizing to me.
The depth in CF isn’t too bad across the organization right now, and the only reason to take one based on need is if you like him better than Borbon/Beltre, because they have used pretty big assets to obtain each, and they are basically at the same stage a newcomer from college/HS would be.
You need help in every corner though. You have Davis, Mayberry, Whittleman and maybe Ramirez to add to the young major leaguers, but that isn’t enough, either in terms of quality or quantity. So if I were sticking to your grid I’d probably rank the needs from highest to lowest:
C-SP
C-corner bat
HS-corner bat
HS-middle of the diamond
HS-SP
C-middle of the diamond
C/HS-catcher
The two types of elite talent that this organization xould really use most are an advanced SP and any kind of impact, middle of the order bat.
by Brett Perryman on May 12, 2008 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions
If they draft
another catcher, I will vomit. They have a logjam right now…
...it's the weekend, so why the hell not?
Best player available...
although it would be nice if that player was a pitcher.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
To tell you guys the truth
I’m much less worried about that first pick (which is hard to mess up) than I am about the three later picks. I have a decent feeling of who I’d want in the 2nd round, but after that it’s generallya blank.
I think it’d be cool as a community to draw a big board or something like it.
Great idea
Poll it like we do for our prospect lists.
Draw up a list of players, give some background and stats, and we can vote it down.
2/3 polls/day?
Hard to mess up?
I am always worried about who the Rangers draft in the first round.
I know that JD has did a great job last year but he will have Nolan talking into his ear this time.
Yeah
While it’s much harder to look stupid with that high pick, that is a spot that you can really take advantage of or blow an opportunity to give yourself a big boost (and blow a bunch of money). It’s high stakes.
by Brett Perryman on May 12, 2008 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Closer to the draft
there’ll be a plethora of information out there to mine.
Right now the draft is still far enough off that there’s not a ton of info on guys outside, say, the top 100.
Sickels draft goes 5 rounds, right?
"If we where [sic] gonna trade them Salty, I would want a helluva lot more than just Joba though." -lonestarJon
by thedirkatron on May 12, 2008 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Thames
I would love it if Thames fell to us in the 2nd round.
--Brian
Any relation?
"I hope it's a special dumb person hell so that I don’t have to meet up with you after I die."
- The D-tron
by inactive lsb user on May 13, 2008 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Heh
Marcus ;)
"I hope it's a special dumb person hell so that I don’t have to meet up with you after I die."
- The D-tron
by inactive lsb user on May 13, 2008 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions
lol
"If we where [sic] gonna trade them Salty, I would want a helluva lot more than just Joba though." -lonestarJon
by thedirkatron on May 13, 2008 1:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Madrigal
Saw him pitch Saturday night and that dude has a future in our pen. Dude made Fresno look silly other than the triple that was hit off him, which really should have been a double, but Junior misplayed it.
Any idea what he was sitting at?
How is his secondary stuff?
"I hope it's a special dumb person hell so that I don’t have to meet up with you after I die."
- The D-tron
by inactive lsb user on May 13, 2008 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Comments from Clinton's pitching coach.
Beavan: sitting 89-90, expect more velocity will come, unusually good mound presence for his age, great command of three pitches.
Kennil: commands his fastball very, very well, takes it to the hitters.
Starters are hoped to go 7-8 innings from here on out.
Question
For those that have followed minor league ball longer than I, who usually has the advantage early on in the lower levels between pitchers and hitters? I can see it going both ways
by OKC Ranger Fan on May 12, 2008 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I am sure that others have different takes
My opinion is that rookie ball tends to favor pitchers as long as they have good command, and after that it’s really more about the parks than the level. The Midwest League is a good pitchers league and the Cal League is a great hitters league, for example, because of the predominance of pitchers/hitters parks in those leagues.
by Brett Perryman on May 12, 2008 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions
thanks Z
Sometimes stats don’t tell the whole story so I always try to keep that in mind
by OKC Ranger Fan on May 12, 2008 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions
My draft rules
both for Sickels and for JD
1. Grab anyone great who falls. I’m getting a feeling that one of the consensus top college guys (Crow, Matusz, Alvarez) may fall a little bit. For example, both Crow and Alvarez have had seasons that are less than expected. Add in money demands, and one may fall. There is a very slight chance, but still there, that one of them may last to Texas. If so, you have to take them, no questions asked.
2. Avoid Jemile Weeks.
3. If one player stands out above all others, take him regardless of team need or previous pick composition.
4. If several players are roughly similar levels but not directly comparable, take the player who either a> fits the team’s system or b> fills an organization need. is something team scouts know better than we do, so I’ll let that slide. But , as discussed above, is important if there is nothing concrete to separate two players from one another.
5. Avoid college pitchers in the top round or two unless you have good reason to believe they can move through the system quickly (you want the Lincecums, not the Diamonds). These guys shoulid be on a 3 year timeline, not 5 years. Quality aside, you want your good arms hitting the majors at 24 or 25, not 27 or 28.
6. You can take more risk on high school pitchers, but beware the guys who are in later-early rounds (3-5).
really?
other than high walk #’s, which of his AA numbers were so-so? K’s? Opponent’s batting average? What?
What do you want me to say?
That I’ll overlook 5 BB/9 and >4.50 ERA while in AA because guys didn’t get as many hits off of him? Why swing the bat if he’s going to walk you anyway?
Pitchers have to DOMINATE levels like AA before I expect them to succeed in the majors. Diamond did great in A ball, but stalled in AA. A first round pick out of college, he should dominate low levels – AA was his first real challenge, and he didn’t excel at it. He wasn’t on a 3 year track.
If i remember correctly,
Thats was also during the time period that both Diamond and Danks where only being allowed to throw FB and change exclusively to work on strict mechanics and the developemnt on the Change…I might have to go dig up some old reports, but im fairly certian alot of the the AA time was spent with strict limits on what he was allowed to throw.
Frisco
Could be in for a tough night. They are pitching Cy Young, and we are pitching Michael Schlact. Still, you can’t count out Davis and Ramirez.
friso result
i was at the game tonight, other than a double from Elvis and a walk from davis the offense was not very good tonight….11 strikeouts i believe!! Schlact did not have very good comand but was helped by some great defensive play (rf mawjeski, not sure how to spell it) made two web gem catches!!! The pitcher for midland looked really good though!
...
he looked really good, hit about 90-91 on the gun with his fastball. The strike zone was pretty big and we seemed to not adjust as the game went along. He kept the ball low in the zone most of the night and got the calls most of the night!! 3B Jesus Guzman looks really good for the midland team as well!! Had a solo shot tonight that was a bomb!! 40 something RBIs on the year now!! I will try to drink less beer and take better notes for you guys the next 3 days!! :) Elvis is going to be special though!! Great smile and attitude and the kid looks 16!!!
carignan...
the closer had some nasty stuff, kinda wild but was bringing it 95-96 on the gun with a nasty breaking pitch that overmatched the top of our lineup. Davis did get a hit off him to give us ranger fans some hope but it did not last long!! PS: cj sucks!!
Cj sucks?
Wtf?
"I hope it's a special dumb person hell so that I don’t have to meet up with you after I die."
- The D-tron
by inactive lsb user on May 13, 2008 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Minor victory...
to me is when the other pitcher looks great and strikes out 11, none of which were Davis. Plus he even managed a walk.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
yay
Mayberry 2-4 with a HR. If he takes just a few more walks we might have something here…
"I thought that was bull," Washington said. "What is he 6-13? That's just frustration. He overreacted." - Wash on Sexson
True about the walks...
but I think he has only stuck out 3 or 4 times as well.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Santana
I’m thinking he needs to go to Spokane when their season opens for a plate discipline/attitude adjustment course; he’s striking out twice a game. Something ain’t right there.
Kennil Gomez. I’m betting this guy shows up high on our midseason prospect polls. Jamey had him ranked #51 and Scott Lucas #49 this winter. Jason Cole didn’t include him on his top 50 and he wasn’t even discussed here in our rankings. If he keeps this up he’ll be a hot topic.
...and curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid git.
IIRC, I think Dave Lezotte mentioned Santana again tonight. Something like, “After the success he had yesterday at the plate, Micucci is running him right back out there again tonight to see if he can get his attitude up.” Even the recent pics of CS over at flickr.com show a sour-pussed guy. Snap out of it, dude.
That's a really distrubing trend
I hope CS isn’t gonna be another Juan Dominguez.
"If we where [sic] gonna trade them Salty, I would want a helluva lot more than just Joba though." -lonestarJon
by thedirkatron on May 13, 2008 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Eh
He’s 18. He’s got some time left before he’s Dominguez.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on May 13, 2008 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, he's young
which is why the whole lolly gagger approach, sending him down or just benching him occasionally like they seem to do with Beltre, might work.
...and curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid git.
Reed
Poor guy has to pitch the late game and get overlooked. Good lookin line with 6IP 5H 1B 1ER 8K
Borbon also goes 2-4 with a double
nice
"I hope it's a special dumb person hell so that I don’t have to meet up with you after I die."
- The D-tron
by inactive lsb user on May 13, 2008 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions
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