Matt Harrison throws a no-hitter
Matt Harrison -- the forgotten prospect in the Mark Teixeira trade -- threw a no hitter today for Frisco.
Now, it was only the 7 inning variety, since there's a doubleheader for Frisco today, and he had 6 walks against 5 Ks...but hey, a no hitter is a no hitter.
Kudos to Matt, who may be heading to Oklahoma before too long, and who I'm betting is pitching in Arlington in September.
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120 pitches?
Geez…for a guy who just got off the d.l. with a tired arm, that seems excessive.
by Adam J. Morris on May 18, 2008 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions
pitches
but the great nolan ryan thinks all pitchers in the system need to start throwing higher pitch counts
"When we're mad we'll use our words. Then the rest of the world will play nice with us. And the only boom-booms will be in our pants." - Ralph Wiggum
Another
reason I don’t want him running this team.
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
Pitch count
the most useless stat in all of sports.
People act like after you hit triple digits that your arm will fall off.
by JimCrankshaft on May 18, 2008 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep
Just ask Bill Pulsipher or Paul Wilson.
by Adam J. Morris on May 18, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Kerry Wood
is a beastly closer now.
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
Is that a counter-point to what Chris said?
Or is that just a non-sequitor?
by Adam J. Morris on May 18, 2008 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree
that Dusty screwed up Wood’s career, but I’m just saying Wood is doing pretty good right now..
Ofcourse, you just have to wait for any day now that he will get injured.
Its scary that the president of the Rangers thinks that about pitch counts.
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
His high school coach...
...let him throw 110 or so pitches in the first game of a DH in the state finals, then come back and throw another 70 or so in relief in the second game.
Mike Fisher, I recall, went on and on about how stupid people were for complaining about that, because there was no proof throwing that many pitches was harmful.
by Adam J. Morris on May 18, 2008 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Wood's career was ruined in high school.
by JimCrankshaft on May 18, 2008 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions
How was it ruined?
I heard he was throwing well and feeling good so his coach left him in. What’s the problem?
by LSBUser on May 18, 2008 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course he is going to say he felt fine. Pitchers always say they feel fine.
but a coach should know that after throwing that many pitches in the first game, that the pitcher shouldn’t be brought back. Unfortunately, a lot of high school and college coaches severely overuse pitchers in an attempt to win, with no regard for their future health.
I know
I was just poking fun at Butters for his comment directly below.
by LSBUser on May 18, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not saying pitchers need to throw 140 pitches a game.
But if the guy is throwing well and feeling good than let the man do his job. I find it incredibly dumb to take out a guy just because he hit an arbitrary pitch count.
by JimCrankshaft on May 18, 2008 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Its
one thing to feel good at the time, not so much after…
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
Nolan Ryan
I would venture a bet to say that he knows a little more about pitching than you do.
Wait 'til the year after next
I also
have common sense and know that wear and tear on especially young pitchers doesn’t venture well will their future…
Sorry, but you are wrong…
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
+1
A Lonestar in California - 2.0
David Murphy rocks, so Ellsbury can just go get himself a taco or something.
-1
Nolan threw a ton of pitches in his career oh wait how long did that last
by blueballlefty on May 19, 2008 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah...
because every pitcher is just like Nolan Ryan.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
No prob. not
but he probably knows more about how to develop youg arms for long careers better than any of these douche’s on here dogging him.
by blueballlefty on May 19, 2008 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Dont
get your panties in a bunch.
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
my panties
are just fine I just think Nolan brings some legitamacy to an organization I spent my whole life following and cant believe some of you guys are already dogging him after this positive start, the only mistake I think he’s made is not firing Ron W. when he had the chance
by blueballlefty on May 19, 2008 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Wrong
yet again. Ron should get alot of credit. What has Nolan done, advertise his beef company?
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
dude this team
would be 4 games over .500 without clueless Ron outthere the guy is a great COACH but a terrible game MANAGER
by blueballlefty on May 19, 2008 12:27 AM CDT up reply actions
That's the great MR. Nolan Ryan
to you, sir…and he’s right.
I don't know Karate...but I know Karazy!
Andrew Laughter
Was warmed up and ready to come in. As soon as the first hit happened he would have been yanked. I was kind of surprised myself that they left in him for that many pitches, for the same reasons.
And was anyone else annoyed when they got up on the dugout and did that clapping this for the last out? They kept blocking my view. :-(
http://www.mvn.com/milb-rangers
For old times sake...C'mon Kelly! :-)
harrison
i keep wanting to see him pitch, but he’s never pitching on days i can go
"When we're mad we'll use our words. Then the rest of the world will play nice with us. And the only boom-booms will be in our pants." - Ralph Wiggum
Same here,
Thats the only guy I want to watch pitch.
If he ever does pitch at home, tell me.
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
Better
prospect than Elvis Andrus in my opinion.
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
Well
that sounds like some residual hate left over from when Joaquin Arias ran over your puppy or tossed your Dad’s salad and posted the video on Youtube or whatever that skinny man did to you that made you so darn angry, cause Andrus is a pretty good looking prospect… though not one without risk.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on May 18, 2008 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I just
think Harrison is one hell of a pitcher…
You have to admit though, Andrus has to remind you of Arias…
Over hyped young shortstop that is supposedly going to be great because he is young…
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
You
don’t see the similarities?
Same situation when Arias came over in the A-Rod deal, no?
They are such similar situations, it is kind of scary.
Arias was even a better hitter than Andrus in early minors.
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
Intangibles
Not to sound like Old Man Baseball, but one of the things that Elvis has going that Joaquin never had is the leadership qualities. Every scouting report you read about Elvis revolves around 2 things: 1. Spectacular defense, 2. Leadership qualities/intangibles out the ass.
Marlon
byrd is a leader as well, and a plus defender….
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
byrd
i woudlnt say he’s a plus defender
"When we're mad we'll use our words. Then the rest of the world will play nice with us. And the only boom-booms will be in our pants." - Ralph Wiggum
So your
saying if someone is a “great leader”, then he has a chance to be good?
You can label me as a good leader and I can be a great prospect as well?
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
i never said that
"When we're mad we'll use our words. Then the rest of the world will play nice with us. And the only boom-booms will be in our pants." - Ralph Wiggum
Point is
you can’t be a great prospect on the grounds of a great leader…
Defense can’t make up for a bat..
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
Defense is incredibly important at shortstop
I can live with a gold glove shortstop that hits .250. At positions like first base you have to rake to have any value, you don’t have to be a great hitter to have value at shortstop.
Then
why didn’t we just keep Jiminez?
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
jiminez
i never saw gold glove style defense out of him.
i guess you just really hate “toolsy” defensive middle infielders. dirks right, arias really did a number on you
"When we're mad we'll use our words. Then the rest of the world will play nice with us. And the only boom-booms will be in our pants." - Ralph Wiggum
Arias
didn’t do a damn thing good…
Sad thing is Arias is better offensively which is sad…
I don’t like middle infielders that can’t get a hit to save their lives.
Defense is great, but you can’t be a top prospect on the grounds of “great defensively and great leader”.
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
so a guy..
who hits .250 (1-4) and steals 20 plus bases is a bad offensive player who “cant get a hit to save his life”
by blueballlefty on May 19, 2008 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Who said
He could even hit .250?
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
who said
he couldnt a guy with that speed give him another year, year and a half in the minors and he’ll be atleast .250ish with an obp. of around .375 and stealing bases, that sounds like a perfect #9 hitter to put right in front of Ian
by blueballlefty on May 19, 2008 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Doesnt
sound like a top prospect to me….
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
thats
just in his first year, he has the ability to develop into a Derek Jeter type of player down the road from what i have seen of him
by blueballlefty on May 19, 2008 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions
why Jeter?
Why does everyone say this silliness? Jeter has always been a really good hitter and a really poor fielder. So why is a good defender and poor hitter likened to him? It is the Chewbacca defense of Andrus’ prospect-dom.
Better hope he doesn't steal 20 bases in the majors.
He’d get caught stealing 6-10 times if he did.
"Before I leave, I once again condemn the despicable buffoonery of D.J. Cahill." - Huck
defense
i think great defense at a position like short stop is highly important, and i also never said anything at all about leadership (though the guy does seem to have some amazing leadership skills)
"When we're mad we'll use our words. Then the rest of the world will play nice with us. And the only boom-booms will be in our pants." - Ralph Wiggum
I don't
care how good defensively he is, if he has no offense then he is a utility player.
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
Okay
I just put a slideshow up in Fanshots of the final out of Harrison’s no-no. He got a chopper to Elvis – Elvis fields and throws – pile-jumping ensues – Harrison doffs cap. yay
Those 120 pitches trouble me greatly
That is WAY to excessive. I know there’s an entire discussion on this up the page, but I’ll toss in my 2 cents down here… I’m reeaallly starting to wonder if Nolan Ryan is going to wind up destroying our young pitchers before they even hit the bigs.
I don’t mind a little bit of old school mentality, but when a prospect who was just on the DL with a fatigued arm throws 120 pitches, you’re past old school and into the Dusty Baker zone.
A Lonestar in California - 2.0
David Murphy rocks, so Ellsbury can just go get himself a taco or something.
I do
mind the old school mentality, he is acting like a crazy old man with no sense.
He was a great pitcher, congrats. But he is a guy that I don’t want influencing our young pitchers.
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
I'm sure Nolan
called the Frisco dougout and threatened the coaches’ jobs if he wasn’t left in….
It’s pretty obvious they left him in to see if he could actually pull it off. The confidence he might have gained can offset the infrequent games where he has 120 pitches.
by Dirk Diggler on May 18, 2008 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Health of an arm > temorary confidence
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
It's Nolan's philosphy that is causing stuff like this
Here, check this out:
Kiker: Yeah, I’m comfortable. I want to go deeper and deeper as the season goes on. I know Nolan Ryan wanted us to start throwing more and finish the games ourselves.
A Lonestar in California - 2.0
David Murphy rocks, so Ellsbury can just go get himself a taco or something.
OK.....
It’s still just one time. Wake me up when he starts throwing 120 pitches every start…then the Dusty Baker comps will be ALMOST relevant.
by Dirk Diggler on May 18, 2008 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions
A quote from you in that thread
On the one hand, its a good idea if a particular starter is pitching well, but on another, we don’t want to Dusty Baker our pitching staff.
Isn’t that exactly what happened here? It’s a rare thing for someone to throw a no-hitter.
Like I said, if it starts to happen consistently, then MAYBE start to worry a little bit.
by Dirk Diggler on May 18, 2008 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Well
You have to take into account the fact that Harrison was just on the DL with arm fatigue. Also, 120 pitches is a little excessive any way you slice it.
Also, I was kind of meaning the Major League pitchers when I said that, because the entire quote is: On the one hand, its a good idea if a particular starter is pitching well, but on another, we don’t want to Dusty Baker our pitching staff. Now that his philosophy is reaching down into our prospects, the most precious things we have right now, it worries me a little.
I know Matt Harrison was pitching exceptionally well, but he’s in AA for petes sake. I really cannot imagine an instance where any AA pitcher anywhere should be throwing 120 pitches in a ballgame.
A Lonestar in California - 2.0
David Murphy rocks, so Ellsbury can just go get himself a taco or something.
I'll give you an example of an instance where it is acceptable
When a guy has a chance at a no-hitter.
by Dirk Diggler on May 18, 2008 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmm,
A chance at a no hitter in AA or the health of a young pitchers arm…..
HMM THE CHOICES THE CHOICES
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
Like I've said about 2039842034802340230942034029384 times
It’s ONE time.
You can continue your bitching the next start if he’s given up 6 earned thru 4 and they leave him in for 110+ pitches.
by Dirk Diggler on May 19, 2008 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Why all the Nolan Ryan haters?
I guess not deserving of the same scorn as the JD haters.
How ironic!
I don't know Karate...but I know Karazy!
Because the big league team is winning.
Some people have to find something to bitch about. Leave it to LSB, we can find a dark cloud in a no-hitter.
by badradiorules on May 19, 2008 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions
I have no problem with 120 pitches
for one game, if he is on a lower pitch count next game.
"Before I leave, I once again condemn the despicable buffoonery of D.J. Cahill." - Huck
Much ado about nothing
Guy’s working on a no-hitter and hits 120 pitches. So next time out, he throws 90 pitches and over two starts he has an average of 105 over two outings. BFD.
If he wasn’t working on a no-hitter, then I can see the cause for alarm. But it was a no-hitter.
Half the people who are bitching about this would have been bitching if they pulled him—just because they like to bitch. Stop bitching, bitches.
by robert_d_wilfong on May 19, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
That's not how it necessarily works
Arm injuries that occur because of fatigue are just as likely to occur because of immediate fatigue as long term fatigue (well, I’m not sure exactly what a ratio might look like, but it is very much a factor).
That said, it doesn’t just scream out as a crime or anything. Just a little iffy.
by Brett Perryman on May 19, 2008 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
My problem with Harrison
at least from when I saw him pitch is that I didn’t see any pitches that made me think ‘I don’t think that major league hitters are going to have a fun time with that” unlike some of Danks’ stuff, Volquez’ FB and change, etc. Now, giving up no hits in seven innings is certainly a good sign in that regard, so hopefully his stuff was just off to a slow start in April.
Harrison's no-no
I was at both Roughrider games today. I don’t think the crowd had any idea Harrison was throwing a no hitter. Either that or they were expecting a 9 inning game. I only recall 2 ball that were hit hard off of him today. His FB was around 89mph and his curve 70ish. Offensively the RRs were going to the plate with toothpicks. I only recall the hitting the ball hard once, a RBI double in the first game. They were one hit in the 2nd game. On a sidenote, my son did get autgraphs from Daisy, some scout, Andrus and Tommy Hunter. He is pitching tomorrow for the RRs. Game starts at 11:00am.
Brandon Boggs 2008 Texas Rangers ROY
They were one hit in the 2nd game.
i went to check the box score and saw that too. i was like welll crap. the first game frisco was 3 hit and won b/c harrison no hit the missions. the second game they got 1 lousy hit.
it in no way undersells Harrison but getting 4 hits in 2 games as a team is scary.
.500 or bust!
Bad Vibes Kill Rallies!
"Well, we are one of the cheapest teams in Major League Baseball"
-Tom Hicks 4/8/2008
Didn't want to start a new diary for it
but I wanted to mention Feliz’ game today. He is on an excellent streak in his last five starts (1 ER).
by Brett Perryman on May 19, 2008 12:08 AM CDT reply actions
Feliz
Any thought that perhaps with Hunter moving up to Frisco, Feliz gets the promotion to Bakersfield with Main taking his spot in Clinton?
I suspect that Kennil Gomez
is ahead of Feliz on the promotion line, but, yeah, I am pretty curious whether he might get moved up in a month or so.
by Brett Perryman on May 19, 2008 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Guys.
this dude is a soft tossing lefty those guys can throw 200 pitches and come back out the next day Harrison will be fine and Nolan WILL save this Org., I just dont get where all the Nolan hating is coming from are people just hating to hate or what
OK...
this is the dumbest post I’ve read tonight.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
+1
A Lonestar in California - 2.0
David Murphy rocks, so Ellsbury can just go get himself a taco or something.
I understand
that the dude has had tired arm but atleast he didnt get babyarm just think how bad that would have been for his career!
by blueballlefty on May 19, 2008 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Harrison
My general feeling is I am fine with them taking a chance on him by leaving him out there since he had such an accomplishment going on. As was mentioned earlier a reliever was warm so if his no-no was broken up he would have been pulled. So for yesterday thats fine.
But in the long run I am concerned about the philosophy change that apparantly Nolan has had. Frankly it is a different era than when Nolan pitched. Just like when Bill Parcells coached the Cowboys. His style worked back in the 80’s and early 90’s but couldn’t translate to the late 00’s.
The offensive players are so much bigger and faster now than when Nolan played. They also are so much more of an investment. As much as fans look at baseball as a game, the owners of every team and executives have to look at it as a business. The salaries these teams pay these players is not conducive to only having them play for a couple years. And while throwing a ton of pitches early in their career may not ruin them then it very well may shorten their career and so down the road when they are in the 2nd year of a 10+ mil per year deal they get injured you just made a bad investment.
As for Nolan Ryan himself. This is the bad part of hiring the guy to be the figurehead. Ranger fans view him as a god and seem to forget he did the majority of his career elsewhere. We have been so pitching starved as a fanbase we latch on to him and call him our own. Thus the guy is seemingly invincible. He is getting alot of the credit for how this team has performed when I imagine he has had little to no impact at all. But because he has told our young pitchers he wants them to work deeper into games and because he was the pitcher he was people think that now our young guys will turn out like him. If he was such a great pitching mind don’t you think he would have been a pitching coach or at least offered a PC job sometime in the last decade plus since he retired. I love the guy as a former player and am happy that he played for my hometown team and I was able to watch him personally a few times. But I think he should stay in the front office portion of his job and sell tickets and get fans out to see these young guys and let the baseball people handle their development. Hes got a great chance with the way this club is playing to sell tickets.
Philosophy change?
I think before we all assume something, just because of comments Ryan made to the press, we should get evidence of increased pitch counts throughout the system. All we have right now are anecdotes and a few instances of (relatively) high pitch counts. I doubt that pitch counts in general are up significantly for Ranger minor league arms in general.
...and curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid git.
My hope
and I’d have to read his quote again, but I’m hoping that the comment was just as much about pitchers taking responsibility to get further into the game within their pitch counts as to enlarge their pitch counts. If you are limited to 90 pitches, for example, it might be easy to just stop worrying about how far into the game you go and just focus on looking good while you’re in – in other words, not taking responsibility or ownership of the game because your pitches are limited.
by Brett Perryman on May 19, 2008 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions
That's a good take
I’d be happy if that was the reasoning.
...and curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid git.
My take
From what I have read, minor league managers are to use their discetion when to pull a starter. They can allow a pitcher to exceed their pitch count based on how hard the pitcher has had to work during the game. wheather condition, previous workload, etc. In short, the Rangers do not have a strict pitch count for their minor league pitchers.
Brandon Boggs 2008 Texas Rangers ROY
pitch counts
All I have to go off of is the box scores of our minor leagues and since the lower levels don’t include pitch counts its all based on assumption. But when a guy like Beavan goes 6 and 7 innings in his first few starts it makes me wonder why Kiker was only going 4 or 5 last year. It very well could be that one guy can go 7 in the same amount of pitches another goes 5 but it has just seemed this year that our young pitchers are pitching deeper into games and without pitch counts in the box score one would have to assume that means higher pitch totals. Heck Hunter was 2nd in the minors in innings pitched before his promotion.
Look at Beavan's walks and strikeouts compared with Kiker's
I would say that it’s quite possible that the difference is largely a result of efficiency. Having said that, Beavan probably outweighs him by about nine inches and 50 pounds, so they probably aren’t as fearful of overdoing it with him.
by Brett Perryman on May 19, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions

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