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Around SBN: Sob City: Clippers Swept By Spurs

5/26/08 minors

A bunch of day games today.

Discuss here.

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Mayberry

pinch-hit in the 9th – JIC anybody was wondering if he’s hurt
popped out

by shroomer on May 26, 2008 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Luis Mendoza gives up 3 (at least) in the first

greatly anticipating his return…...... not so much.

Gerald Laird is my hero.

by DShep on May 26, 2008 1:22 PM CDT reply actions  

Ballard going for Frisco today

kind of a bummer

Frisco is on TV next Sunday afternoon. If the Roughriders skip Zack Parker in the rotation this week it means Ballard or Parker will be on TV instead of Tommy Hunter. Pray they leave Parker in the rotation this week.

by shroomer on May 26, 2008 1:30 PM CDT reply actions  

Teagarden

.315/.471/.500 coming into Monday – 1/1 so far today

He’s bounced back nicely from his tough Frisco ‘08 stint …

The wrist injury is one of the worst things that can happen to a hitter. Even when he was healthy enough to play in Frisco he was still behind the curve. He had just 10 at-bats in spring training. Teagarden hit .294 with seven home runs in 29 games in Double-A last season.
.
“I had to get to a point where I could play so I could break camp," Teagarden said. “I was pushing it. By the time I came to Frisco I was starting fresh. I was struggling, but I’m starting to feel like I did last year in Frisco. I’m not there yet but I’m getting close."

From a 5/21 article

by shroomer on May 26, 2008 1:39 PM CDT reply actions  

damn

let’s see, Tea is a better defensive player than Laird and Salty, and he seems to be a better offensive player than both of them. Time for 2 C trades that will absolutely beef up our system even more.

by Longhorn on May 26, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

take off your burnt orange glasses for a second big guy

Teagarden is not a better offensive player than Salty and its debatable whether he is better than Laird. His defense is not in question but you can’t make that statement about his offense.

by bigsteve on May 26, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

yes i can, because he is...

i don’t care if he’s a longhorn or not. That’s getting old, find something new…

by Longhorn on May 26, 2008 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

No hes not

He is not better offensively than Salty. Im a longhorn fan too but thats crazy to make that statement.

by bigsteve on May 26, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

tell me how he's not better than salty?

give me some stats to back that up, and i will of course agree with you then.

by Longhorn on May 26, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Salty

Im not saying Teagarden is not a nice offensive player let me make that clear. But Salty has the better offensive potential and so far has shown to be the better offensive player when you factor in not only stats but also age. He is younger than Teagarden and has put up similar if not better numbers than the former Longhorn great. Personally I probably would want Teagarden more than Salty for the long term simply due to his defensive wizardry but between the two of them Salty is the better offensive player. Its no use posting their stats because they are very similar and don’t point to either one being the clear cut favorite but to me add in the age and the fact that Teagardens breakout year came in a notorious hitters league makes Salty the better of the two.

by bigsteve on May 26, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

AAA hitter?

Maybe you have an argument there. But to say TT is a better hitter than Laird and Saltalamacchia when TT has never had a ML AB is simply ….. silly.

Brandon Boggs 2008 Texas Rangers ROY

by RangerMad on May 26, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

well

most scouting reports I see say they dont expect him to hit for average in the majors and that he is ultimately more glove than bat.
and almost every scouting report on salty says he has a sky high offensive ceiling.

you should keep in mind salty is a year and a half younger than teagarden and all his comparable level stats are obviously at a significantly younger age.

Gerald Laird is my hero.

by DShep on May 26, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

if that's the case

you move Salty to first and then Tea can take over at catcher.

by Longhorn on May 26, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

No...

If Salty isn’t going to be the catcher then you trade him. He has much more value by doing that instead of putting him at 1B.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on May 26, 2008 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

thats wasting value though

itd be better to trade salty as a good hitting catcher than hope his bat meets its ceiling and allows him to be a decent 1b.

especially since salty is better than maxram defensively. if anyone is moving to dh/1b its probably max.

i think its been decided salty CAN stay at catcher, rather hes below average defensively for the rest of his career or not.

Gerald Laird is my hero.

by DShep on May 26, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

well

when you said “sky high offensive ceiling” i thought you meant sky high offensive ceiling.

by Longhorn on May 26, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

um, yes.

what his offensive potential is. as in what he COULD do.

he MIGHT develop into a 35-40 HR guy thats an above average 1b and would make it fine to move him there. He might be a 20-25 HR guy who would be average or below at 1b but an all star catcher.

You certainly dont bet his entire value to your club on him reaching the 40 hr potential. you either bet on getting the value from catcher, or take the value in trade. you dont move him to 1b,

Gerald Laird is my hero.

by DShep on May 26, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

we just have way too many

good players at 1b/c/dh. good problem to have.

by Longhorn on May 26, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Im starting to think something like

TT and IK for a top tier 3B and then you can move young back to 1st.

.500 or bust!

"There is no reason for me to move to third base," Young said.
-FOTF 5/20/2008

"Well, we are one of the cheapest teams in Major League Baseball"
-Tom Hicks 4/8/2008

by Jayslick on May 26, 2008 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

2nd base

obviously…

.500 or bust!

"There is no reason for me to move to third base," Young said.
-FOTF 5/20/2008

"Well, we are one of the cheapest teams in Major League Baseball"
-Tom Hicks 4/8/2008

by Jayslick on May 26, 2008 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

man

what i would do if JD could do something for David Wright.

by Longhorn on May 26, 2008 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tx2

Seems to have improved his contact rates at AAA, which would lead you to believe that he could hit for average in the majors, no? Obviously he could K a little less, but he’s walking plenty.

"Chase. Dominguez is not really your liking" - Mr Santos

by inactive lsb user on May 26, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

his AAA numbers are looking really nice

but its only 54 at bats. after he struck out 23 times in 59 at bats in AA.

Gerald Laird is my hero.

by DShep on May 26, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or 71 PA's

which is more than he had in AA this year, but point taken.

"Chase. Dominguez is not really your liking" - Mr Santos

by inactive lsb user on May 26, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

to be clear

im not a teagarden hater here.

with his defense, he is at worst a decent mlb catcher. If he didnt exist I would not be ok with trading salty. Which I am.

I just take issue with the better than salty offensively thing, and its gone from there.

Gerald Laird is my hero.

by DShep on May 26, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah that assertion was a bit of a stretch

by Longhorn. I certainly disagree with that also. I think we end up trading Tea if Salty pans out. Tx2 just needs to stay healthy and the value will be there.

"Chase. Dominguez is not really your liking" - Mr Santos

by inactive lsb user on May 26, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here's a hypothetical for everyone

Salty for Andrew “Royce” McCutchen?

For those who don’t know him, McCutchen is a 21 year old CF’er hitting .282/.374/.446/.820 in AAA. He was the 11th overall pick in 2005. He’s yet to make his big league debut. He’s reportedly a great athlete with the skills to e a gold glover in CF for a long time, but he’s still a little raw right now.

Would you?

Would they?

Discuss.

The 40 trumps all!!!

by thedirkatron on May 26, 2008 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

My kind of

player…

I like the sound of this.

"We will look back in 20 years, and say that Clayton Kershaw was one of the best pitchers of all time" - me

by miles on May 26, 2008 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think that's

a really good idea, because it actually makes some sense and is with a team that we know likes Salty. My issue would be with the reduced value of Hamilton, but I think it would still probably be worth it if you believe in McCutchen. As long as he hits, he figures to be a pretty prototypical top of the order CF. I don’t know that he’s a future GGer, but he does have nice range.

My guess is that they wouldn’t do it, but I don’t think that makes it unreasonable.

by Brett Perryman on May 26, 2008 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yah

that was sort of my thinking on Pitt, as they’ve been rumored to be interested in Salty before in connection to Ian Snell. I was trying to think of equal value guys from teams who have a need at catcher. Pitt might be willing to discuss McCutchen with the emergence of McClouth as an uber-beast, but you’re right to think they prolly wouldn’t do him straight up for Salty. We’d prolly have to kick in a little something extra, and even then they might really like the kid and just plain not want to deal him. It’s not like they’re in the race or anything.

Plus Ryan Doumit was in the process of maybe breaking out when he fractured his thumb, so they may be content with their catching situation now… I don’t know enough about their team to be sure.

The 40 trumps all!!!

by thedirkatron on May 26, 2008 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Meh...

He’s a nice prospect, but if the Rangers deal Salty I would like to see them get a strong pitching prospect.

My second choice would be a power hitting prospect. Preferably a RH hitter who could play COF or 3B.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on May 26, 2008 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wel... I think you're underrating McCutchen

as you can never have enough speedy plus-defensive OF’ers with offensive ceiling. But to each their own.

As for your first choice… trading for pitching prospects is always tough. You’ll almost never get equal value trading hitting for pitching. I don’t even like to hypothesize about shit like that.

As for a second choice… How about Ian Stewart?

He’s another guy who is semi-blocked on a team with a need for good young catcher. Who knows if his worth around baseball is more or less than Salty’s, but it seems like they’re in the same ballpark, value wise (though, for the record, I think Salty’s better) With Atkins, Helton, Holliday and Hawpe, the Rocks don’t have a corner spot open anywhere, and Stewart might qualify as the sort of power bat you’re talking about (though he’s not a righty). He’s hitting .288/.381/.638/.1019 right now in AAA as a 23 year old, is supposedly a very good defensive 3b who could play some COF if you needed him to.

He’s playing his minor league ball in Colorado Springs, which I believe is a massive hitters park, though. I’m a huge baseball nerd, but not huge enough that I have minor league park factors memorized. Anyone know how inflated those offensive numbers might be for Stewart?

The 40 trumps all!!!

by thedirkatron on May 26, 2008 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Rockies

have a very good young catcher in Chris Iannetta.

by jparks77 on May 27, 2008 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dammit

I guess they do. He didn’t show up on my search cause he doesn’t have enough AB’s. His .292/.373/.542/.915 is very, very nice… but why the heck is Torrealba getting all the PT? He’s the guy who came up in my quick-and-dirty search, and he, um, sucks at baseball.

Does Iannetta suck defensively or what’s the deal I wonder?

The 40 trumps all!!!

by thedirkatron on May 27, 2008 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Little more research

He’s striking out in nearly 1/3 of his AB’s (22k’s in 76 ab’s) and is getting those incredible numbers off a a nigh unsustainable .346 babip. When that normalizes he’ll fall back quite a bit.

Still you’re right that he’s a good young catcher and they prolly won’t be looking to trade up at that position. Oh well.

The 40 trumps all!!!

by thedirkatron on May 27, 2008 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know...

it’s always tough to get pitching in a deal like that which is why I included a second option. It’s hard to say what Salty will bring right now. Still hard to gauge what teams could/will be interested in him and what they have to offer.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on May 27, 2008 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

You still

up?

email me real quick

"We will look back in 20 years, and say that Clayton Kershaw was one of the best pitchers of all time" - me

by miles on May 27, 2008 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

actually

since Teagarden has never played in the big leagues, then you should be the one proving how he will be better than Salty. That’s logic.

by chrisR on May 26, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not to enter y'alls' argument

but I’d like to be a fly on the wall when J.D. takes calls from other GM’s inquiring about Teagarden. I bet he’s gettin’ low-balled a bunch – guys looking to swindle him after the slow start at Frisco and the log-jam at C in our org.

by shroomer on May 26, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah

Hopefully his nice bounceback in OKC has stopped some of those low ball offers.

by bigsteve on May 26, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

davis

1st 2 ABs in AAA, 2 Ks.

by Longhorn on May 26, 2008 1:44 PM CDT reply actions  

nice

Davis with his first AAA hit and a ribbie.

by Longhorn on May 26, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ed Coffin

He’ll be able to say “I told ya so” to us one day.

by Chris Hanes on May 26, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

why wait?

Boggs should just go down until he gets on a roll in AAA.

Cruz could take over against some tough lefties for murph and play over byrd if byrd has a bad run.

although thats assuming we leave milton mostly at DH (maybe occasionally swapping into the OF when hammy dhs), which I think we should at LEAST do until we know if we are going to trade him or not. his trade value has to be getting high enough that its worth doing everything we can to protect his health.

Gerald Laird is my hero.

by DShep on May 26, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

Why put yourself in the situation this fall of not being sure whether you should hold out any hope for Cruz? Give him a solid look, and if he still doesn’t have it, goodbye.

by Brett Perryman on May 26, 2008 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Why wait?"

See my sig.

The 40 trumps all!!!

by thedirkatron on May 26, 2008 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

I am so curious which catchers

JD trades…I hope we get some stud players in return.

by Agreen07 on May 26, 2008 2:03 PM CDT reply actions  

The CLN radio guy just said

that he asked Mike Micucci if the Rangers plan on leaving Engel Beltre at lead-off batter. He said, “Yes they do.” Work in progress.

by shroomer on May 26, 2008 2:13 PM CDT reply actions  

Beltre

With Borbon looking like a prototypical leadoff hitter should the Rangers start looking at Beltre more toward the middle of the order? Granted I haven’t read a ton about him and don’t know what the projection on him offensively is but the way Borbon is playing it looks like the leadoff position may be locked down for some time to come in our organization

by bigsteve on May 26, 2008 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well

Beltre needs to learn plate discipline. The pressure to learn as a LO batter might be doubled since it’s an obligation to the team to draw walks and see pitches and be effective on the basepaths. Then you can move him where you want later with those tools in his bag … assuming he ever freakin’ learns ‘em.

by shroomer on May 26, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

+100000

i was thinking the same thing. emphasis on plate discipline at LO hitter

.500 or bust!

"There is no reason for me to move to third base," Young said.
-FOTF 5/20/2008

"Well, we are one of the cheapest teams in Major League Baseball"
-Tom Hicks 4/8/2008

by Jayslick on May 26, 2008 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Marcus Lemon

"Chase. Dominguez is not really your liking" - Mr Santos

by inactive lsb user on May 26, 2008 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Borbon

ain’t prototypical yet. Right now he’s prototypical Juan Pierre. He needs to walk a great deal more to have a high enough OBP in the majors to lead off. Hopefully he’ll do that, and he has gotten a tad better as the season has gotten underway, but he has it to do.

by Brett Perryman on May 26, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was wondering that, too

10% of AB’s has been my half-azz guess based on all the sabriety around here.

for instance…
100 AB’s
30 hits = .300 AVG … then add …
10 BB’s=.400 OBP

by shroomer on May 26, 2008 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Little less...

Well, your math is a bit off on the OBP there, cause walks don’t count as AB’s so you’re talking about a guy who gets on 40 out of every 110 PA’s (rather than 100), but that’s still pretty darn good.

I was just wondering if Z thought Borbon’s .366 OBP in A+ was good enough to be a big league leadoff man. Granted it’s driven by a .309 BA, but I think a .360+ OBP is good enough to be a major league leadoff man, plain and simple.

The 40 trumps all!!!

by thedirkatron on May 26, 2008 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would agree

But he isn’t going to be able to walk once every 20 official AB in the major leagues and be an effective leadoff hitter. He isn’t Ichiro. If Borbon can hit .325 and get on base at a .375 clip, great. But if he hits .290, which is pretty damn good, the OBP falls to like .340, and that doesn’t really get it done, especially when he adds little else as a hitter.

I think that the bare minimum for the first three or so hitters is a .350 OBP, and especially with the leadoff guy I’d like .370.

by Brett Perryman on May 26, 2008 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

We've talked at length

About differential between BA and OBP. For a high average hitter, 60 points looks OK. For a lower average hitter, you’d like an 80 point differential to use him in leadoff. Even then, an efficient leadoff who hits .260 really should have a 100+ point differential. I’d like a .370 OBP at leadoff. Managers take othere factors into account, though. Smart baserunner counts, and does ability to move anyone already on into SP.

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on May 26, 2008 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd like a .370 obp at leadoff too

That’s the dream.

But as of right now exactly 50 players in all of MLB have at least a .370 OBP or above, and most of them are sluggers as opposed to leadoff guys.

78 guys have an OBP of .350 or above (with Juan Pierre being one of them), so saying the bare minimum for the first 3 is .350 is a little unrealistic.

Ian Kinsler is 79th, fwiw, with a .349.

The 40 trumps all!!!

by thedirkatron on May 26, 2008 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kinsler

has a career OBP over .350. Young has been over .350 four of the last five years. And Hamilton is at .377. It’s not at all far fetched.

And just like we can’t expect our rotation to have ERAs as good as SD should have, we need to expect more than average in areas like this because of our situation.

by Brett Perryman on May 26, 2008 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh and

the following additional Rangers have OBPs over 350:

Milton Bradley .443
Ramón Vázquez .439
Chris Shelton .388
Jarrod Saltalamacchia .385
Hank Blalock .365
Frank Catalanotto .362

Now obviously Vazquez is going to fall off the map, and most of the others will slow. But Bradley will have an OBP north of 350, and it would not be all that surprising if Shelton, Catalanotto and maybe even Blalock did as well.

by Brett Perryman on May 26, 2008 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

As tron says,

.370 is great and all, but it might not happen for most teams. I’m too lazy (hey, it’s a holiday) to look up the numbers right now, but I suspect that most leadoff hitters are closer to Kinsler’s .350ish mark than .370 right now, especially in the AL right now.

I really don’t think Borbon is going to be a leadoff hitter in the big leagues at any rate; I think he’ll be a good 7 hitter playing nice CF. I hope he surprises me.

...and curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid git.

by t ball on May 26, 2008 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're right

Not many teams have guys with 370 OBPs leading off for them. I would absolutely hold that it is something to strive for, and I would not be happy with less than 350. I think that Kinsler is a better #2 than #1 anyway, despite the SBs. To me, offensively, if four or five teams in the AL can field something important like that, we should be one of them.

On a side note, I hadn’t looked at Jeter’s line lately: .287/.339/.397, wow. Is his offensive decline fully underway?

by Brett Perryman on May 26, 2008 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Heh

At least Jeter’s got that Gold Glove defense to fall back on, eh?

The 40 trumps all!!!

by thedirkatron on May 27, 2008 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lineup

I’d bat Bradley leadoff, with Kinsler, Young, and Hamilton following, but I don’t see Washington doing that.

Jeter’s contract will be even more of an albatross than Young’s if that keeps up.

...and curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid git.

by t ball on May 27, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Engel

Just socked a solo HR.

BTW, Hector Carrasco is now pitching against the Redhawks. He’s literally older than dirt.

by shroomer on May 26, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Beavan's first inning

2 K’s looking and a 4-hopper to the SS – easy peasy

by shroomer on May 26, 2008 2:27 PM CDT reply actions  

Who's going

to the RR game on Wednesday?

"We will look back in 20 years, and say that Clayton Kershaw was one of the best pitchers of all time" - me

by miles on May 26, 2008 2:28 PM CDT reply actions  

We simply need more Texas Longhorns

Of any sport, I mean just bring them in.

This is the key to winning the world series people. MORE LONGHORNS.

by SaltyGoesYard on May 26, 2008 2:46 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

OT: Podcast

i think i just found my favorite podcast, Brian Kenny and Max Kellerman. If you are a stat guy, you need to check them out. Kenny is probably one of just a few that i enjoy listening to over at ESPN, but the stuff he does on the radio is great…Kellerman too…

by Longhorn on May 26, 2008 3:13 PM CDT reply actions  

I agree on Kenny

He is the rare ESPN guy who is up with the times in baseball. Kellerman is too much to listen to consistently though. He is best in small doses.

by Brett Perryman on May 26, 2008 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

i used to watch his fox sports talkshow from time to time

was ok.

i just subscribed to the podcast, ill check it out.

Gerald Laird is my hero.

by DShep on May 26, 2008 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not beyond

fill-in appearances a while back. Is he toned down a little on the radio?

by Brett Perryman on May 26, 2008 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

i'm comparing

Kellerman on TV and Kellerman on radio, not really toned down, but it’s far broader topics of course and, well, he’s just an ubersabermetrician. I didn’t know that until i listened to the podcast.

by Longhorn on May 26, 2008 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm a big fan of Kellerman.

the dude knows his stuff. His boxing knowledge is second to none right now.

by Garcia on May 26, 2008 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bev saw Holland pitch yesterday

files another wacky report

She’s watching Beavan today, I think. Beavan’s dealing.

by shroomer on May 26, 2008 3:13 PM CDT reply actions  

Let me guess

Beavan will be “mostly in the upper 80’s to low 90’s with his fastball, and his breaking ball is mostly in the upper 70’s.” I also predict that he will look “pretty good.”

by Brett Perryman on May 26, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is kind of disturbing.

Where did his upper-90’s heat go?

by Ajax68 on May 26, 2008 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm joking

...sort of. She gave almost exactly the same report on Fabio Castillo as Derek Holland. Only Beverly could watch Castillo and Holland pitch and come up with the same report.

by Brett Perryman on May 26, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also

we got a bad omen in her previous entry. Beavan had better happily pose for some pics and give a big hug or he mght be on the receiving end of a nasty report.

by Brett Perryman on May 26, 2008 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I thought Beavan's fastball

usually sat in the 92-94 range with the ability to dial it up to 95-96 when needed. He might be sacrificing some velocity for control.

by jparks77 on May 26, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Okay, I am tired and cranky so I should let this go...

But I won’t primarily because I AM tired and cranky.

1. I didn’t tell them what to pitch or how fast, I just stated what it was.

2. Not everyone is baseball is a stat head. My “audience” consists mostly of casual redhawks fans and players parents who actually LIKE what I say and the way I say it They want to know who I think is cool, and who made the great diving play and that is what I tell them. I doubt most of them know WHO Fabio castillo is and I assure you they really don’t care what kind of pitches he throws. There are plenty of other sites who will bore you with stats and I don’t even intend to join them. Sorry that you are disappointed, but you aren’t who I write for and if you don’t like it you aren’t obligated to read it.

3. I gave a lot more detail on Blake Beavan’s outing because I was asked to share my thoughts on him. If someone had asked me to do that on Castillo or Holland I would have been more specific rather than giving a general overview.

4. I don’t think it’s fair that a stathead who doesn’t bother to go to any games thinks its okay to take cheap shots at me since at least I take the time to go and see it live.

http://www.mvn.com/milb-rangers

For old times sake...C'mon Kelly! :-)

by Beverly23 on May 27, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Then why did you post

“good stuff” in the comments section?

"Chase. Dominguez is not really your liking" - Mr Santos

by inactive lsb user on May 26, 2008 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't consider it as such

just pointing out the discrepancy.

"Chase. Dominguez is not really your liking" - Mr Santos

by inactive lsb user on May 26, 2008 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

WTF.

Engel Beltre has 7 SB but he has also been caught stealing 7 times.

by coolaid on May 26, 2008 3:37 PM CDT reply actions  

SB

Stealing bases has a lot more to it thatn just being fast. He has been picked off a couple times from what I can remember which count as CS. Im sure as he develops and matures his ability to read pitchers moves will get better and his percentage will improve

by bigsteve on May 26, 2008 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

OT: I have a friend who just decided Jeff Kent is the greatest 2B of all-time.

Why? Because total home runs are all that matter. I wish I was kidding, but I’m not.

by philkid3 on May 26, 2008 4:21 PM CDT reply actions  

he might make the hall of fame

but obviously yeah, hes not the best 2b of all time..

Gerald Laird is my hero.

by DShep on May 26, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tell your friend...

to google Rogers Hornsby.

The best second baseman of all-time isn’t even a debate. Hornsby gets it hands down.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on May 26, 2008 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

.500 or bust!

"There is no reason for me to move to third base," Young said.
-FOTF 5/20/2008

"Well, we are one of the cheapest teams in Major League Baseball"
-Tom Hicks 4/8/2008

by Jayslick on May 26, 2008 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

He looks exactyl like

Hannibal Lecter in that picture.

Like, EXACTLY like him.

Wow.

The 40 trumps all!!!

by thedirkatron on May 27, 2008 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Holy shit...

he does.

I didn’t realize Anthony Hopkins was in the HOF.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on May 27, 2008 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

Learn something on this board every day.

"Chase. Dominguez is not really your liking" - Mr Santos

by inactive lsb user on May 27, 2008 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's uncanny

Maybe it’s the fact I caught a little of Silence channel surfing last night, but I can’t stop marveling at the resemblance.

It’s freaking me out, brosephs.

The 40 trumps all!!!

by thedirkatron on May 27, 2008 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Shit...

now you’ve me looking at it over and over again.

It’’s pretty crazy how similar that picture makes them look.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on May 27, 2008 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Someone just told him Kent isn't even in the top 10.

To which he replied with, “then Mike Piazza isn’t a top 10 catcher.”

by philkid3 on May 26, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

"We will look back in 20 years, and say that Clayton Kershaw was one of the best pitchers of all time" - me

by miles on May 26, 2008 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

+2

"Chase. Dominguez is not really your liking" - Mr Santos

by inactive lsb user on May 26, 2008 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Really?

Over Hornsby? How so?

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on May 26, 2008 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Much closer than I thought

because slugging .700 + twice is pretty ridiculous—for a 2B.

I found this:

“Bill James ranks Hornsby as the third greatest 2nd baseman of all time, behind both Joe Morgan and Eddie Collins. He is almost universally ranked as the top offensive second baseman, but some analysts and fans have argued that his poor defense drops him below the likes of Morgan, Collins or Nap Lajoie as the top all-around second baseman.”

"Chase. Dominguez is not really your liking" - Mr Santos

by inactive lsb user on May 27, 2008 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wow...

Hornsby and Morgan are 1/2 easily in my book.

Rogers was never a great defensive 2B like Morgan was, but his offense was so ridiculous that he is easily #1 for me.

Anyone who puts Hornsby as the 3rd best second baseman of all-time should have their baseball credentials revoked.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on May 27, 2008 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Eddie Collins

Wasn’t he an absolute wizard defensively? He’s so damn old I have no idea how to check that, but I think I remember that being his rep, fwiw.

And his career OPS+ was 141 compared to Morgan’s 132.

Collins was very good.

The 40 trumps all!!!

by thedirkatron on May 27, 2008 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Come on now

It’s so difficult to compare, but you do the best you can to measure their impact on runs scored and runs allowed. It is possible that his defense could be at the other extreme from his offense enough to bring him down a notch, no? I’m sure this has been argued on other boards with more fancy analysis work done.

"Chase. Dominguez is not really your liking" - Mr Santos

by inactive lsb user on May 27, 2008 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

While I have Hornsby No. 1. . .

. . . I don’t think any of us should be clamoring for Bill James’s baseball credentials to be revoked.

by philkid3 on May 27, 2008 5:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry...

I’m a huge fan of “The Rajah”. My personal bias came out. He was one of the first old time ball players I learned about when I was a little kid.

I just think his numbers are amazing. Especially playing in the era that he did when pitching was pretty dominant.

I withdraw my remark about pulling Bill James’ credentials, but strongly disagree with his assessment of the best second basemen of all time. After all, as Chase mentions, it can be very difficult at times to compare ball players from different eras.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on May 27, 2008 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Beavan -- Final line

Player IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Beavan 6.0 4 2 0 0 4 0 2.90

by coolaid on May 26, 2008 4:27 PM CDT reply actions  

One more thing

Ground outs-fly outs: Beavan 7-7.

by coolaid on May 26, 2008 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice. Got a pitch count?

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on May 26, 2008 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nah.

They dont have PC in the box score for Single A.

by coolaid on May 26, 2008 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Listening on the radio, it seemed like the his performance went like this ..

If you sit there and take pitches the count will be 0-2 or 1-2 before you know it – and then you’re meat. So you better swing. And when they swung they mostly hit grounders and easy fly-balls anyway.

by shroomer on May 26, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

don't remember any

So if they did, he probably didn’t have a velo worth making a enough noise over to get my attention. Kiker rarely topped 91 early last season, IIRC. Even this season, Kiker’s FB is just now starting to sound like it’s getting some hop to it.

by shroomer on May 26, 2008 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

El Lizard pitched well in relieve of Mendoza.

6 IP, 6 H, 1 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 2 K’s.

Davis went 2-4 with a double and 2 K’s.

Arias started at second base (2 errors).

by coolaid on May 26, 2008 4:34 PM CDT reply actions  

Lizard...

...should have started. Mendoza was just awful. I was at the game and it was painful.

by The Best Micah on May 26, 2008 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Beavan

1 BB in 31 IP after today.

And 15 K. Not so much with the Ks.

I read his lines and think he’s concentrating on groundballs (under orders from above I’d assume). How batters avoid striking out against him I don’t get.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on May 26, 2008 4:45 PM CDT reply actions  

That would concern me more

if he were getting hit a little harder or if he were walking anyone. I mean, yeah, if your stuff is good enough you’ll just strike out 40% of the batters you face, give up very few hits, etc. But those other ratios are so good that it’s pretty clear what his approach is. He’s pounding the zone with stuff that is difficult to deal with, but that guys can at least touch.

by Brett Perryman on May 26, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

i could really go for a high K guy in arlington one of these years.

beaven’s outing sounds just fine though.

Gerald Laird is my hero.

by DShep on May 26, 2008 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

if you dont walk anyone they are

which hasnt been the ranger way.

if its beaven’s way… go beaven. progress quickly please.

Gerald Laird is my hero.

by DShep on May 26, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think so

I think it is the difference between a #2-3 starter and a #4-5. Most true #1 starters are strikeout pitchers. Ks are outs that require no defensive help. No seeing eye GB. No bloop over the IF. It is a garanteed out. How many times during a Rangers game do you wish the pitcher could get a K?

Brandon Boggs 2008 Texas Rangers ROY

by RangerMad on May 26, 2008 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

stikeouts afre boring... and besides that, they're facist

Grieve: The Yanks have struggled so far. - Lewin: Yeah, cry me a bag of money.

by WhipSmart on May 26, 2008 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

OK WhipSmart

are you going to take credit for that line?

Brandon Boggs 2008 Texas Rangers ROY

by RangerMad on May 26, 2008 5:23 PM CDT reply actions  

Chris Davis

looked GREAT at 1B today. You would never know he’s recently converted from 3B to 1B. His defense was just fantastic.

You can read more of my thoughts on today’s OKC game at my blog—http://baseballismyboyfriend.blogspot.com

((I hope self-promotion isn’t out of line))

by The Best Micah on May 26, 2008 7:20 PM CDT reply actions  

Thx

Too bad you didn’t get the Eric Hurley photo – that woulda been classic.

by shroomer on May 26, 2008 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I really wanted to...

...but he retreated into the dugout before I could get the camera turned on.

by The Best Micah on May 26, 2008 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

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