that’s pretty good.

that we are the Rangers. Even our #1 prospect pitchers suck! :)

thanks for ruining my night.

I know he struggled again today. The only positive I see is his K/BB ratio and velocity. Let’s just hope he is trying to work on things to get to where he wants his game to be. Whatever that is, he better figure them out quick or guys like Mathis will pass him.

make sense.

Is he just adjusting to AAA?

16 walks in 35.2 innings sounds bad, but consider that that’s 16 walks out of 173 batters faced and it doesn’t seem so bad. I guess he throws a lot of strikes.

I’m guessing the hitters in AAA are better than AA, and I’m guessing those same strikes either miss bats or are beat into the ground at AA.

I think we shall see if he adjusts. Sounds like the league has adjusted to him.

Of not being in the show and watching these no talent ass clowns take his spot in the rotation.

Once he comes up he will start dropping domination.

story of the Rangers lives, it’s always something either they get traded off or breakdown.

Aces every test, but parents (you guys) don’t understand why he gets such bad marks on class and homework.

Its simply too easy, gets bored, wants to be challenged at a level more appropriate to his abilities.

Give him a start.

they’re having him work on a particular pitch?

Or maybe he just needs to relax and stop trying to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring, and besides that, they’re fascist.

He should throw more ground balls. They’re more democratic.

and were seeing it now.

shoots the opponents OPS up almost 100 points. That’s not horrible but not good at all.

Here is what I think is going on with Hurley.

http://www.lonestarball.com/2008/5/3/471735/april-in-okc#5645813

He has never improved his weaknesses.

He gives up too many homers/flyballs, doesn’t have any dependable offspeed pitches, and he likes to work his fastball up in the zone and it tends to be straight.

Those are the same things we were hearing about Hurley 2-3 years ago. He never improved his weaknesses and the longer that goes by without significant progress on those things, the more likely that he is unwilling or unable to get those things fixed.

I still think he’s going to be fine, but as I said in a previous thread, I think he’s Rick Helling. He’s going to pitch 200 innings, but it won’t be pretty at times. An improved OF defense here gives him a chance, but he needs to be more consistent. He struck out the side one inning last night, then struggled mightily after that.

Shroomer seemed to indicated he was working on some specific things against lefties, which might explain their dramatically increased success facing him this year. The K’s look very good, walks are up, too, though. Ugh, I wish he’d have a run of three or four good starts soon.

hurley is not a top of the rotation pitcher.
hurley is probably not a #2.
hurley MIGHT be a #3.

and the way hes pitching in AAA hes not even that.
to me, hes gonna have kevin millwood upside on one end and rick helling upside on the other.

look at the stats. he is sucking it up. plain and simple.

is that is one bizarre line. nearly 10.6 K/9, and 2.625 K:BB ratio, combined with all of that other junk.

Pretty strange.

Disheartening performance thus far to be sure, but he has time to get his act together. He clearly has the stuff to be dominant. To my inexperienced eye, he looks like he’s trying to learn how to control his out pitch, meaning he gets a lot of strikeouts when it goes how he wants it but he also misses with his out pitch and walks a lot of folks.

1> This is why you don’t assume guys are ready. Sometimes they aren’t. He obviously needs to work on something, and AAA is a much better place to do that than Texas.

As for the “he’s bored” theory above – that is ludicrous. Does Jake Peavy get “bored” dominating the Pirates? Professionals don’t get bored facing bad hitters, they use them as an opportunity to rack up the numbers. If he has a problem with focus, then that is something he needs to work on in AAA, not MLB.

2> Players do fail right before the majors unexpectedly. Those jumps keep getting bigger (AA to AAA; AAA to MLB). Guys like Botts and Cruz can’t make the last jump, despite great numbers. There is no reason that Hurley is assured of making the AA to AAA jump (and by extension, the jump to MLB).

This reminds us why the B-Mac – Danks trade was smart at the time. A bird in the hand versus two in the bush sort of thing. Prospects are by definition volatile, and there is no assurance of future success. Hurley has had an “untouchable” label on him for a while, but that doesn’t guarantee anything.

3> If Hurley fails, I think that someone needs to take a serious look at the Rangers development system in AA and AAA. While some failure is expected, there seems to be a big trend of guys who can’t make these jumps in Texas, and a very short list of players who have done it well. People assume this happens in Arlington, but it seems to me most of these pitchers are in some way flawed before they reach Texas. (besides, the big leagues is not a time for learning…) How many wins have Ranger drafted pitchers had starting games for Texas in the past two years? Less than 10?

I don’t know who the pitching coaches are in Frisco and Oklahoma, and if they are the same guys who have been there for a while, but something may be wrong with what they are teaching…

He’s very Roy Halladayish at a younger age in AAA…

He’s prolly just working on new things knowing he has to have a good K ratio in the Majors, and he’s doing that better in AAA than he’s done at any other stop…

yea, there is this “working on pitches” stuff (throwing more changeups or curves than FB or not throwing a slider, etc) but that only works for so long. if they rangers are having him work on certain pitch at AAA they are seriously screwing with not only him this year, but his future.

i would undestand if he was working on his “out pitch” and getting lots of K’s and walks (i would actually be somewhat ok with that if it was all that was happening)

career BB/9 is 3.02
this year: (35 IP) 4.04

career k/9: 8.31
this year k/9: 10.60

career whip: 1.21 (1.11 and 1.27 last year at AA and AAA)
whip this year: 1.85

BAA this year: .323

his allowed last year: 71 at AA and 65 at AAA
his allowed this year: 50 (AAA)

last year in AAA (73 IP) – 4.91 era, 59:28 k:bb, 65 hits allowed, 13 hr given up, 45 ER, 13 starts
this year in AAA (35 IP) – 7.32 era, 42:16 k:bb, 50 hits allowed, 8 hr given up, 29 er, 7 starts, .323 BAA

what in that says “top prospect”?

compare to other guys on BAs top 100:
kershaw (AA) – 1.11 ERA, 32 IP, 23 hits, 4 ER, 36k/11bb, 10.02 k/9, 3.06 bb/9, 0 HR allowed .197 BAA, 1.05 WHIP

adenhart (AAA) – 0.87 era, 31 IP, 18 hits, 3 ER, 0 HR allowed, 19k/15bb, 4.35 bb/9, 5.52 k/9, 1.70 BAA, 1.06 whip (this is more in line with what i expected from hurley, i think/thought he and adenhart were close to being the same kind of pitcher)

homer bailey – AAA – 2.29 era, 39 ip, 4 hr, 32k/9bb, 7.3 k/9, 2.06 bb/9, .213 baa, 0.99 whip, 30 hits

jake mcgee – AA – 5.32 era, 14 ER, 3 hr, 23.2 ip, 19 hits allowed, 27k/10bb, 3.8 bb/9, 10.27 k/9, .216 baa, 1.23 whip

wade davis – AA – 3.60 era, 35 ip, 31 hits, 14 er, 23k/9bb, 2.31 bb/9, 5.91 k/9, .246 baa, 1.14 whip

porcello – hiA – 2.37 era, 30 IP, 22 hits, 13 runs, 1 hr, 20k/9bb, 2.67 bb/9, 5.93 k/9, .198 baa, 1.02 whip

gio gonzalez – AAA – 5.00 era, 27 ip, 15 er, 31 hits, 16 bb/21k, 5.33 bb/9, 7.00 k/9, .298 baa, 1.74 whip (doing horrible, in top 5 in minors in K’s the last 2 years i believe + led minors last year)

adam miller – 2.84 era, 19 hits, 12.2 ip (3 starts), 5 bb/10k, 3.55 bb/9, 7.11 k/9, .328 baa, 1.89 whip

delois guerra – hiA – 4.61 era, 29 hits, 2 hr, 12bb/20k, 3.95 bb/9, 6.59 k/9, .261 baa, 1.5 whip

brett anderson- HiA – 2.43 era, 33 ip, 27 hits, 1 hr, 7bb/36k, 1.89 bb/9, 9.72 k/9, .214 baa, 1.02 whip

jarrod parker – loA – 1.31, 20 IP, 19 hits, 2 bb/19k, .87 bb/9, 8.27 k/9, .226 baa, 1.02 whip

ross detwiler – hiA – 5.18 era, 24 IP, 30 hits, 2 hr, 14bb/20k, 5.18 bb/9, 7.40 k/9, .309 baa, 1.81 whip

carlos carrasco – AA – 4.03 era, 29 IP, 28 hits, 5 hr, 12 bb/32k, 3.72 bb/9, 9.93 k/9, .264 baa, 1.38 whip

chris volstad – AA – 2.61 era, 38 IP, 29 hits, 10 bb/39k, 2.37 bb/9, 6.87 k/9, 2.15 baa, 1.03 whip

f de los santos – hiA – 5.87 era, 23 ip, 29 hits, 11bb/26k, 4.3 bb/9, 10.17 k/9, .309 baa, 1.74 whip (sell high by CWS imo)

luke hochevar – AAA – 2.6 era, 17 ip, 2 hr, 7 hits, 6bb./12k, 3.12 bb/9, 6.23 k/9, .180 BAA, .98 whip

chris tillman – AA – 3.55 era, 25 ip, 18 hits, 1 hr, 15bb/23k, 5.33 bb/9, 8.17 k/9, .196 baa, 1.30 whip

brett sinkbeil – AA – 4.41 era, 34 IP, 38 hits, 3 hr, 13 bb, 14k, 3.4 bb/9, 3.63 k/9, .290 whip, 1.47 era

radhimes liz – AAA – 5.35 era, 33 ip, 32 hits, 2 hr, 14bb/34k, 3.74 bb/9, 9.09 k/9, .262 baa, 1.37 whip

chuck lofgren – AA – 6.66 era, 25.2 ip, 31 hits, 5 hr, 17bb/20k, 5.96 bb/9, 7.01 k/9, .301 baa, 1.87 whip

eric hurley (#77) – AAA – 7.32 era, 42:16 k:bb, 50 hits allowed, 8 hr given up, 29 er, 2.74 bb/9, 7.71 k/9, 1.11 whip, .323 BAA

jordan walden – loA – 3.03 era, 32 IP, 31 hits, 1 HR, 12bb/27k, 3.31 bb/9, 7.44 k/9, .240 bAA, 1.32 whip

sean gallager – AAA 3.10 era, 29 ip, 21 hits, 2 hr, 9bb/30k, 2.79 bb/9, 9.31 k/9, .196 baa, 1.03 whip

collin balester – AAA – 4.13 era, 28 IP, 24 hits, 2 hr, 12 bb/23k, 2.81 bb/9, 7.31 k/9, .226 baa, 1.27 whip

michael bowden – AA – 3.26 era, 30 ip, 25 hits, 2 hr, 11bb/35k, 3.26 bb/9, 10.38 k/9, .223 baa, 1.19 whip

chris perez (STL RP prospect) – AAA – 1.84 era, 14 IP, 10 hits, 1 HR, 7bb/18k, 4.3 bb/9, 11.05 k/9, 1.89 baa, 1.16 whip

greg reynolds – AAA – 5.17 era, 31 ip, 43 hits, 3 hr, 9bb/14k, 2.59 bb/9, 4.02 k/9, .333 baa, 1.66 whip

so overall
worst era (by a fair amount)
most hits allowed
highest BAA
most HR given up

i will say it again:
hurley is NOT a #1
hurley is probably not a #2

hurley is not our #1 prospect anymore.
hurley is (probably) the most overrated player in our top 10.

Hurley has an impressive track record of durability. And guys that can pitch 200 ip of league average ERA (which I still think Hurley will be able to do, eventually) are very, very valuable.

example of the Rangers over hyping their own prospects….

AAA stats:

20 starts
109 IP
6.12 era
115 hits allowed
21 hr allowed
44 BB
101 K
3.66 BB/9
8.39 K/9
.280 BAA
1.56 whip

2008:
BA’s #77 overall prospect
BA’s 21’s overall pitching prospect

of pitchers on 2008 BA’s top 100 he has the:
worst ERA
most hits allowed
highest batting average against
most HR given up
(and yes, i know its a month)

yet even though all of this is out there, i get blasted for saying hes not a top prospect or the rangers top prospect.

WHY? did i say he was not good? no, i didnt
did i say we should cut him? no
did i say we should trade him? no

so what is the problem?