Lone Star Ball: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Around SBN: Shattered: Wisconsin's home winning streak ends

Trade demands

There's been some discussion on this piece from Peter Gammons, which includes this snippet about the Rangers and Mets:

You know what the Rangers wanted from the Mets last winter for Vicente Padilla?

Mike Pelfrey, Aaron Heilman, Deolis Guerra.

Okay...first of all, let's recall this is coming from Gammons, who has a history of praise for, and being tight with, Mets g.m. Omar Minaya.  So this is likely the Mets' version of the story he's getting, and any g.m. is going to make it sound like his counterparts are asking for the moon.

That said...if you are Jon Daniels, and someone is asking you this past winter about Vicente Padilla, what would your stance be in regards to trading him?

Padilla's value was at an all-time low, after an awful season.  But Padilla's contract is in line with other starters of his ability, and has two more years with a team option.  It isn't as if the Rangers are loaded down with onerous contracts, and it isn't as if the Rangers needed to clear out rotation space.

So, from a financial standpoint and from an on-the-field standpoint, there was no sense of urgency to move Padilla.

Plus, Padilla is a guy who, when he is healthy, has been productive.  And productive starting pitchers command a premium in the trade market...particularly in July.

Jon Daniels was in a situation where he's got a guy who he can use in the rotation, whose contract isn't onerous or preventing the Rangers from making moves this past offseason, and who, if he bounces back and pitches like he has in the past, could bring a significant return.

So why should he even consider a low-ball offer from the Mets this past offseason?  If Padilla pitches well in 2008, then come July, a Guerra/Pelfrey/Heilman package is a fairly reasonable opening proposal from the Rangers to a contender who wants to add Padilla to their rotation.  And if Padilla doesn't pitch well, it isn't as if his trade value would be any lower in 2008 than it was this past offseason.

There's a diary up killing Daniels for being scared of getting ripped off and thus making unrealistic trade proposals.  And hey, maybe that's the case.  I don't know. 

But  I think the more realistic possibility is that Daniels believed Padilla is a better pitcher than he showed last season, and would be able to command a premium package either in 2008 or 2009.  And I would guess that Daniels figured that if he was going to deal Padilla this offseason, it was going to be for at least close to what he believed Padilla's value would be once he got back on track. 

 

0 recs  |  Comment 30 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

More from Lone Star Ball

Jon Daniels chat session

May 2009 by Adam J. Morris - 22 comments

Wednesday a.m. stuff

Sep 2008 by Adam J. Morris - 155 comments

Saturday morning things

Aug 2008 by Adam J. Morris - 65 comments

Thursday a.m. things

Aug 2008 by Adam J. Morris - 74 comments

Wednesday a.m. stuff

Aug 2008 by Adam J. Morris - 226 comments

Around SB Nation

Monday's Frosty Mug

Apr 2008 from Brew Crew Ball - 13 comments

Sosa Makes Rangers

Mar 2007 from MLB Daily Dish - 3 comments

Comments

Display:

Believing a Player is Better Than They Played

Is a reason (for better or worse), that we still have Laird as well.

by FuturePants on May 6, 2008 12:02 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

seems to have worked for padilla

and as if this instant, Laird’s value is probably higher than it was before

Rare Gnats Sex

by ab03 on May 6, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then Daniels is smarter than most here seem to believe.

As of last night, Laird’s OPS+ is 32 points higher than it was last year. And there’s no question that Padilla has been better.

by Athos on May 6, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Laird

I wonder if Daniels is overvaluing Laird. It seems to me that the Yanks and Brewers, in particular, should be more than interested in him.

by j-r-d on May 6, 2008 12:12 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yankees

This season, to me at least, stands out as one of little patience. Here is a list of players who have already been released or DFA’d:

Jacques Jones
Jason Michaels
Frank Thomas
Jason Botts
Brad Wilkerson
Greg Norton
There’s even a rumor that Uribe and Fogg are on their way out

Cashman, however, is not going this route. Hank complains to the media that Joba is needed in the rotation, but Cashman is keeping him in the pen for now. He would not part with Hughes/Kennedy in a deal for Santana. Cashman has shown a lot of patience lately, and I would expect this to continue with the catching situation.

by Excel Hearts Choi on May 6, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But...but...

Don’t get josey all cornfused with your “logic”.

Everything is black, or white. Absolute, unmitigated black or white. There is no in-between.

...it's the weekend, so why the hell not?

by Rodney on May 6, 2008 12:17 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

your texas rangers

foxsports.com is calling the Texas Rangers as the worst team in baseball in their current power rankings. last week they were next to last but this week dropped into last place.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/powerRankings?MSNHPHMA

yo soy Horsedooty!

I soloed in the mile high club.

by Sr Horsedooty on May 6, 2008 12:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

the blurb about them

Lost in the shuffle of the Rangers’ futility is the fine season being put up by Josh Hamilton, who is leading the majors with 33 RBIs. Once again, pitching has been the Rangers’ undoing. Texas brings up the rear in the AL with a team ERA of 5.13.

Every loss is one step closer to the top of the 2009 draft!

by knockoutking on May 6, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are forgetting

the horrendous play of Ben Broussard, Marlon Byrd, the defense, etc. etc. Pitching ain’t the only problem!

by FuturePants on May 6, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Offense and Pitching

If a picture is worth a thousand words…

Pictures courtesy of Hardball Times

by Excel Hearts Choi on May 6, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good to see

Ron Washington has done such a great job with the defense.

"Before I leave, I once again condemn the despicable buffoonery of D.J. Cahill." - Huck

by DJCahill on May 6, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right

With Washington, wasn’t defense supposed to be the least of our worries?

by cmkelly29 on May 6, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well this is pretty hilarious

Can you link to where you found this on HT?

by dieselT8 on May 6, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

THT

For those you who have not found it, go to the Team Pages at Hardball Times. Then select AL West in the drop down menu. The graphs are updated about once or twice a week. The table of data, however, is updated daily.

by Excel Hearts Choi on May 6, 2008 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is interesting.

I was surprised after seeing this—I thought that our starting pitching had been good enough to keep our pitching stats closer to reasonable numbers, so I went to baseball-reference.com and checked our team ERA+.

It’s bad. 79.

So I then looked at three guys with the most ridiculous ERAs: Jennings, Nippert, and Fukumori (I missed Mendoza and Littleton in this). Take those three guys out, and our team ERA drops a full point, from 5.21 to 4.21. That’s pretty ridiculous. Jennings is responsible for about 0.35 points of that ERA.

I think the Rangers believe Jennings is still hurt. Nippert may well be a terrible bust, and a lot of those earned runs have come a few meaningless situations (the 11-0 game earlier this season where he gave up six earned runs and only got two outs, for instance).

Fukumori’s lines are a bit stranger. In his three losses, he pitched three innings and gave up nine earned runs. He seems really inconsistent (his other outing was one inning of relief against the Angels where he walked one batter).

So…I guess I still feel like our pitchers aren’t as bad as this graph represents…but two bad starting pitchers (one a replacement for the other) and three terrible relievers really screw our team ERA.

by jwiscarson on May 6, 2008 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bingo

It’s still early, and Millwood’s start last night is another good example of an ERA ballooned by one very bad game. However, that ERA is indicative of the risk-laden roster assembled by the front office heading into the season, and the injuries that have pummeled the pitching staff. We said before the season that everything had to go right for this team to contend, and it didn’t, obviously.

...and curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid git.

by t ball on May 6, 2008 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Peter Gammons

I long ago stopped believing his rumors about the Rangers. My impression is that JD does not work through Gammons and other national sources, so the stories coming out of him and Rosenthal and guys like that are always skewed in the direction of the other teams

JD probable asked for one of those three guys. Minaya then says to Gammons “JD wanted Pelfrey, Heilmann, Guerra” conveniently forgetting the “or”, or Gammons conveniently forgot to hear it. Either way, it makes for a much more interesting, better story this way.

by JBImaknee on May 6, 2008 12:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

re:
If Padilla pitches well in 2008, then come July, a Guerra/Pelfrey/Heilman package is a fairly reasonable opening proposal from the Rangers to a contender who wants to add Padilla to their rotation.

exactly.

That still is a fairly ‘meh’ group of players. I don’t understand the infatuation of those three…

just got ownaged

by Longhorn on May 6, 2008 12:48 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather have Rupe

than Heilman, at this point. Murray/Feldman over Pelfrey, for the moment.

Guerra is the only interesting part of that package.

by cmkelly29 on May 6, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Easy

I agree that isn’t the greatest package in the world. Rupe>Heilman? Maybe, but I’d rather take the guy that has a better track record over a guy that you really have to worry about his health. The same logic that it seems that you would use to take Rupe over Heilman, I’ll use to take Pelfrey over Murray/Feldman. Pelfrey’s ceiling is MUCH higher than either of those guys. I had the pleasure of watching him pitch a lot in college and know his college coaches fairly well. The rumors are that the Mets have jerked him around quite a bit and tried to change his mechanics a lot. You do that with an 18 year old, not the best college pitcher in the nation that is consistently 93-95. He just needs a fresh start somewhere.

by badradiorules on May 6, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why?
I’d rather have Rupe than Heilman, at this point.

Why?

by Adam J. Morris on May 6, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

4 years younger was my initial thought

but breezing through Heilman’s last 3 seasons and Rupe’s lack of experience, I’m going to change my mind about that.

My bad,

by cmkelly29 on May 6, 2008 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

wrong

Say your sorry to Ron Washington

by miles on May 6, 2008 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"wrong ehhhh ehhh"

Oh shut up miles, you have no idea what you’re talking about at any time. I might not be considered a forum-genius, but I know a shit-load more than you do about baseball and especially this team. It was one bad comment on my part. I changed my mind later if you’d open your eyes and look.

by cmkelly29 on May 7, 2008 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't

have any idea what I am talking about?

That is besides the point…

Say your sorry to Ron Washington

by miles on May 7, 2008 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorta like us

After giving up so much to get Santana they don’t have alot left. That inflates the image of their best ones. Sorta like us and Danks and Hurley. Its not that they are bad prospects or anything but they are/were the best at a given time which made the perception of them that they are top notch prospects when in reality they are really just nice prospects

by bigsteve on May 6, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

For the most part, whenever a GM leaks negotiations, there’s a hidden agenda. Either to drive up the bidding on a player or to paint another GM as unreasonable.

For all of the Rangers players being mentioned – Padilla, Millwood, Milt, Byrd, Laird – the Rangers have no urgent reason to trade them. Salaries are fine, production/injuries aren’t bad, the 40-man is workable. The Rangers are in a position that they can make demands.

What happened to my old signature?

by WyoRanger on May 6, 2008 1:16 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

"The Rangers...

are in a position that they can make demands”.

Exactly right, and I hope JD continues to do so. None of those plyers have to be dealt tomorrow. Although I would like it if Byrd and Laird were moved sooner rather than later.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on May 7, 2008 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Texas Rangers.
Start posting about the Rangers »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Highfidelity_small
Rangers 2009 Top Plays/Highlights Video
Rangers_small
Adam J. Morris Facebook Fan Page
Ochomerun_small
Feliz The Cheeez
Small
If Lone Star Ball were a movie
Small
Highlights from the Mid-Winter Banquet

Recent FanPosts

Small
I have questions for LSB freinds
110307_1802_00__small
People in my Keeper Fantasy League (and those interested in joining)
Small
Jose Vallejo out for the year
Eastwood_small
Rank the Baseball Commissioners
Th_buckykatt_small
Super Bowl Thread
39135485-59af19dbb26654095f910f34176af094_4ae8a81e-scaled_small
Predictions Group
Cj_photo_day_small
LSB Community Prospect Project: Post Season #30
110307_1802_00__small
so...
Rangersp_small
Other Rangers uni numbers that should be retired?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SPONSORS


Managers

Th_buckykatt_small Adam J. Morris