Tuesday morning things
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 10, 2008 9:09 AM CDT
138 comments
So, yeah, kind of some big news last night. Jon Daniels on Eric Hurley:
"Our people feel like he's made steady progress, has been making adjustments, learning to pitch with his stuff," general manager Jon Daniels said via e-mail. "All young pitchers go through a period where they move from 'good arm' to 'good pitcher,' and Eric's in that transition. We think he's deserving of an opportunity to help the club."
If you are going to make your first major league start, right now, there's probably not a team that's better to debut against than the Royals, who have been just about the worst offensive team in the majors.
Kevin Sherrington talks about Pacman Jones and the Rangers taking on perceived problem cases, along with Sidney Ponson's release (and flatly denies that Ponson got in a fight with Michael Young).
Jim Reeves spills some more details about the incident in the bar that has been alluded to:
My only complaint about the way the Rangers handled this -- and it's a mild one -- is that they didn't run Ponson off four days earlier, when he embarrassed the team and himself with an ugly incident at the hotel bar while the team was playing at Tampa Bay.
Observers say that when the bartender there tried to cut off a clearly already over-served Ponson, the Aruban right-hander became enraged, challenged him to fight and teammates had to intervene.
And Ponson was pitching against the Rays the next day.
"Ron addressed it on the spot and some of our players did as well," said Daniels, who was back in Arlington for the birth of his daughter during that trip. "It was partial judgment call and partial circumstances. We just decided not to take action at that point."
Already under a zero-strike policy with the Rangers because of his previous problems with other teams, Ponson caught a break there. Unfortunately, he didn't take advantage of it.
* * *
Depending on whom you talk to, Ponson may have even challenged manager Ron Washington to fight.
Maybe he mistook him for the bartender.
What apparently is not at all true is any part of another popular rumor of a confrontation between Ponson and second baseman Ian Kinsler in the shower in which Michael Young intervened and suffered his broken finger and strained groin.
Reeves also says that, vis-a-vis the "personal days" of Vicente Padilla and Kevin Millwood, Padilla was in Nicaragua with his seriously ill daughter, and Millwood had a court appearance relating to his recent divorce case back in Georgia.
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Personal days
Glad to finally get some clarification on that. One can only hope Padillas daughter is doing better now. Hadn’t heard about Millwoods situation but hopefully its done and behind him so he can focus on helping this team get better.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jun 10, 2008 9:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
millwood's day
wasn’t it a court date relating to his recent divorce?
¡yo soy Horsedooty!
I soloed in the mile high club.
by Sr Horsedooty on Jun 10, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I hadn’t heard anything about it though before this. I hope it all got taken care of and he can put it all behind him now and focus on the rest of this seaosn and into next season. I know from watching my parents that going through a divorce can weigh on someones mind. Thats not what I want on one of my top pitchers mind when he is on the hill.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jun 10, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ick
That’s a mental image I really didn’t want: Michael Young getting hurt while breaking up a fight between Sidney Ponson and Ian Kinsler in the shower.
"You’re the only here who contributes schtick only." - brettgardner
by trza on Jun 10, 2008 9:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That was my thought.
Joe Morgan: (On Jay Bruce) I think he will. He brings energy to the team, and besides that, he is a pretty good hitter.
Ken Tremendous: I like that the #1 reason he will help his team is: "energy," and the distant #2 reason is: "ability to hit baseballs."
by TheBZA on Jun 10, 2008 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup.
The understatement makes me laugh…
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jun 10, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ian Kinsler in the shower?
I don’t mind it too much (evil grin)
The "Electrician" was born 7/16/07 11:53 PM EDT
http://www.lonestarball.com/2007/7/16/213154/893
by LAMuscleFag on Jun 10, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously...
Is this like a big communal shower, like in an old-school locker room? Don’t they have stalls? These are million-dollar athletes. Even my college dorm had stalls. Good Lord.
by HankScorpio on Jun 10, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rumor
shower…broken finger…strained groin… He could have written that sentence differently. It’s time for fans to put the Ponson issue to rest. He screwed up, was given another chance, screwed up even worse, and now he’s gone. A very strange week for the Rangers.
In more positive news, Neftali Feliz is freakin’ awesome. Kasey Kiker is lookin’ good, too.
...and curse Sir Sidney Ponson, he was such a stupid git.
by t ball on Jun 10, 2008 9:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yah
The club’s shown some different plans for young pitchers in Clinton.
Kiker, Hurley, Phillips: full year. Danks, Poveda: made a few CAL starts.
But Neftali is just dealing.
That scouting report Fanpost on him made it seem he’s still more thrower than pitcher, so I just wonder when they’ll move him up. I do think it’s this year, though.
It’d be quite a win for Kiker to hit Frisco this year. If my math’s right, 3.30 ERA in his last 7 starts, over 43.2 IP. More important, the peripherals are looking pretty.
Anyone think Hunter might see Arlington this year? On the Joba plan? I mean, there’s available work in the bullpen.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jun 10, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hunter
I wouldn’t be shocked if he’s in Texas this year. More likely, 2009.
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 10, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
Im thinking the highest he sees this year is OKC not only because that would still be really fast development but also our 40 man situation would be hard to add a guy like him when we have so many guys we will have to add this offseason.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jun 10, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully not on the "Joba plan" though
But I think that comparison just comes from the fact that both Joba and Hunter are kinda big.
by lonestarJon on Jun 10, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, won't somebody PLEASE think of the 40!!!
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 10, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you Helen Lovejoy
Right around the time all the young talent is ready to contend is when the organization will realize that Ron Washington is the wrong man for the job.
by Chad Crudup on Jun 10, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well it was just a matter of time...
before that Douche showed his true colors. He was a ticking time bomb. Thank god he’s back in Aruba where he belongs .. all sauced up and picking fights with bartenders, what a loser!
The "Electrician" was born 7/16/07 11:53 PM EDT
http://www.lonestarball.com/2007/7/16/213154/893
by LAMuscleFag on Jun 10, 2008 9:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
just another in a long
line of reasons grown men should’nt shower together…
Please forgive any and all typos, mispellings, etc.
Your kindess in this matter is appreciated.
by red shoe ranger on Jun 10, 2008 9:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't tell LA/NY MF that...
Joe Morgan: (On Jay Bruce) I think he will. He brings energy to the team, and besides that, he is a pretty good hitter.
Ken Tremendous: I like that the #1 reason he will help his team is: "energy," and the distant #2 reason is: "ability to hit baseballs."
by TheBZA on Jun 10, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he just did!
and no he’s right – men who look like Sidney Ponson and Gerald Laird shouldn’t shower together. He’s absolutely right!
The "Electrician" was born 7/16/07 11:53 PM EDT
http://www.lonestarball.com/2007/7/16/213154/893
by LAMuscleFag on Jun 10, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Showering with Sidney Ponson
is perhaps the worst image LSB posters have ever invoked.
by FirebatM3 on Jun 10, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+ 1
The "Electrician" was born 7/16/07 11:53 PM EDT
http://www.lonestarball.com/2007/7/16/213154/893
by LAMuscleFag on Jun 10, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is pretty rancid....
.... but so is Rodney’s warrior freak FAIL image.
There is no such thing as global warming. David Murphy was cold, so he turned the sun up.
by SarasotaRanger on Jun 10, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+ 1,000,000
I’d put them both on about the same level.
The "Electrician" was born 7/16/07 11:53 PM EDT
http://www.lonestarball.com/2007/7/16/213154/893
by LAMuscleFag on Jun 10, 2008 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't temp me!
lol!!!
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
by Rodney on Jun 10, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hahahaha
please don’t I just had lunch!
The "Electrician" was born 7/16/07 11:53 PM EDT
http://www.lonestarball.com/2007/7/16/213154/893
by LAMuscleFag on Jun 10, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go for it.
I dare you. At least run it out there on the game thread tonight.
Just keep your mask on and umpire the game! - Tom Grieve, 5/25/08
by EssBee on Jun 10, 2008 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re:
how come this was not reported the after the incident? or 2 days after, maybe even 3 or 4 days after?
by Longhorn on Jun 10, 2008 10:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'
I’ll give ya something.
1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"
~ The Immortal, BG
by Chase Irwin on Jun 10, 2008 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are we rushing another SP - Hurley?
First, let’s compliment the Ranger management for handling the Padilla and Millwood ‘personal days” properly. I pray that Padilla’s daughter recovers and that Millwood does not get screwed in the divorce.
Given the Ranger’s long term track record of failure in developing and keeping their starters, I question if bringing Hurley up now is not another example of repeating their history. Looking at Hurley’s recent performance and long term development he is the obvious choice for the spot. My primary concern is that we are promoting him in a time of need and not when he is forcing his way into the rotation based on his performance. I certainly want, desparately want Hurley to suceed here long term. I simply worry that we may be rushing another young pitcher and potentially hurting his long term success.
Another point of concern is the Rangers ability to evaluate their own pitching. Looking around the league I see Danks, Volquez, Duchsherer and Young all enjoying success in other organizations. Yes, Volquez did net us an awesome CF in Hamilton, and BMac when healthy should balance the Danks deal quite a bit more. Are we sure that we have the right “plan” to develop the plethora of talented pitchers down on the farm? I simply do not know but hope the Ranger’s correct the historical trends.
As far as men showering together I will defer to LAMF’s expertise in that area and withold any personal comments other that FirebatM3 is right!
Peace.
by Bigfan16 on Jun 10, 2008 10:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Duchscherer
I think the only person in the organization who was here when Duchscherer was cut loose is Rudy Jaramillo (and Tom Hicks, of course).
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 10, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could be wrong on the timing
but hadn’t John Hart and Dom Chiti just joined the Rangers about the time he was cut loose?
by Jea103 on Jun 10, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you are correct
Hart and staff did not feel he threw hard enough to succeed in the majors. Ooops.
by Bigfan16 on Jun 10, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The good news about Duchsherer
is we got Vizcaino in return for him, who we traded for Jesus Pena. I hear Pena may be availble if Home Dept will give him some time off. :)
On a more serious note, you are correct about new management. Have they changed anything from the days of trading away the likes of Rob Nen, or releasing the likes of Doug Davis?
I would really like to see the Rangers develop and see their home grown pitching succeed and then keep them insted of losing them to FA.
by Bigfan16 on Jun 10, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
pitching
Its completely different between not developing pitching and trading it away before we get to reap the rewards. Not to beat a dead horse but Danks was developed by us and then traded away for, at the time, a more highly thought of prospect who happened to get injured after coming here. Volquez was developed by us and traded away for what is currently a triple crown candidate and an MVP candidate. To say we haven’t developed pitching is not entirely true. If BMac wasn’t injured then you could argue that BMac/Hamilton is potentially better than Danks/Volquez
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jun 10, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, even stated:
” Yes, Volquez did net us an awesome CF in Hamilton, and BMac when healthy should balance the Danks deal quite a bit more. “
My goal is to see the Rangers draft, successfully develop and keep their pitching.
Historically this has been a weak spot, I am still wondering if we have changed anything. Having seen this not changed for 20 years, I may be a bit jaded. I hope they are not repeating past mistakes.
by Bigfan16 on Jun 10, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're beating a dead horse.
A lot if “ifs” in your Danks/B-Mac argument.
Thought we were dealing in reality.
“If” Hamilton weren’t playing well, and Volquez was doing what he’s doing, that would’ve been a bad deal. Use one, single standard, not what’s convenient to win your “argument”.
lol -CI
by Clueless on Jun 10, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
Theres only one “if”. If BMac is healthy which at the time of the trade was not a question. He had never been injured and thus you didn’t think he would end up being injured for most of the next 2 years.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jun 10, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well....
if 9-11 wouldnt have happened Bush would have been a better president…
please, unfortunately grades and opinions are based on what did happen and at this juncture the trade just looks ignorant…
but LSB’ers seem to be content with reading Neftali Feliz boxscores and convincing themselves that the Rangers are “on the cusp” of contention when in reality there is no reasonable expectation of a decent rotation on the horizon(at least not in-house).
Please forgive any and all typos, mispellings, etc.
Your kindess in this matter is appreciated.
by red shoe ranger on Jun 10, 2008 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you seem to be content...
...to tell the folks who post here what sheep we all are…
Awesome.
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 10, 2008 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the
bush quip was intentionally ignorant…it was meant to portray the fact that he has been a colossal mistake for a million different reasons and anyone who wishes to alibi fore him because of 9-11 woud be ignorant of both facts and reality.
Its called drawing a parallel…JD would be brilliant if B-Mac hadnt got hurt is like saying Bush would be good if not for 9-11, both would be ignorant conclusions….
shit happens….its how you handle it.
B-Mac got hurt…no one could have predicted it…..he was supposed to be better than Danks…..all he experts agree…..
not sure what difference it makes. At this point the Rangers have the worst staff in the majors and you seem content with the decisions that have been made, good for you.
Oh yeah, you are a sheep….. and Hicks has the shepard stick, sorry pal.
You’ve tried umpteen times to tell me that you arent a Hicks/JD yes man and then turn around and stick up for damn near every move they’ve ever made.
In succinct terms can you tell me how the Rangers find themselves with this malady that you call a pitching staff? and who do you feel is most responsible?
thank you in advance….its too bad this had to get smarmy.
Please forgive any and all typos, mispellings, etc.
Your kindess in this matter is appreciated.
by red shoe ranger on Jun 10, 2008 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: "the trade just looks ignorant"
We traded John Danks for a universally more highly regarded, more statistically dominant, and more advanced pitcher with no history of injury.
To say, after the fact, that because McCarthy has been sidelined with injuries, that “the trade just looks ignorant,” is textbook fuckwit stupid.
If, as is being discussed right now at LSB, we sign Ben Sheets to a 5 year, 90 million dollar deal, and he logs roughly 200 innings over that 5 years due to injuries (you probably aren’t aware of this, but he has an injury history), then someone can justifiably call that “an ignorant deal by the boy blunder.”
Contrarily, if a GM trades for a young stud with a clean bill of health, and no history of overuse, and said wonderboy gets hurt, you can’t.
Do you follow? Because I can’t dumb it down any more than that.
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on Jun 10, 2008 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
unfortunately
I disagree that this statement:
Contrarily, if a GM trades for a young stud with a clean bill of health, and no history of overuse, and said wonderboy gets hurt, you can’t.
applies to B-Mac.
Sorry but my second guessing began the minute I got a look at that 6-5 wafer thin frame with a horrible delivery to boot.
You may now restrap your knee pads and resume “nursing” B-Mac back from his injuries.
Please forgive any and all typos, mispellings, etc.
Your kindess in this matter is appreciated.
by red shoe ranger on Jun 10, 2008 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's fine
I leave you to your chew toy…
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on Jun 10, 2008 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
now who's
going to pick up the other end of this rope with the large knots on each end?
until next time…...
Please forgive any and all typos, mispellings, etc.
Your kindess in this matter is appreciated.
by red shoe ranger on Jun 10, 2008 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't underestimate yourself
That was plenty dumb.
lol -CI
by Clueless on Jun 10, 2008 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hurley
I’ll first preface this by saying if the Rangers send Hurley down and burn an option then this is a bad move.
Now Hurley has spent almost a full year at AAA by now. Overall he has a 6-12 record with an ERA of 5.22 in 141.1 innings. Not exactly numbers that make you say “Wow”. However over his last 4 starts he had a 2.67 ERA and showed improvements in the areas you want to see from your top pitching prospects. If you want to compare he is making his ML debut about the time that John Danks should have been making his debut last season. The White Sox have said they probably rushed Danks a little by not starting him in AAA last year. He has obviously learned and has turned into a nice pitcher. I don’t think anyone is saying or expecting Hurley to come up and dominate or become the next Liriano. He will struggle at times and he will look really good at times. But now that we have taken the plunge by bringing him up we owe it to not only ourselves but him as well to keep him here and ride the waves of inconsistancy that a young guy will have. Otherwise we could be looking at another Tejeda situation in a couple years if we start yoyoing him now based on a bad outting or two.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jun 10, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well put bigsteve
This is a rebuilding season and give Hurley every opportunity to learn. Hurley’s recent perfromances have been much better than his overall AAA record and I understand why he is getting his opportunity now. I would prefer that it was only based onhis perfromance and not driven on the desparate need for a starter.
by Bigfan16 on Jun 10, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Desperate Need...
I wouldn’t say the Rangers are in “desperate need” of a starter. If they thought bringing Hurley up would hurt his development, they have other options they could have used including the guys who have been mentioned, Gabbard, Mendoza, Harrison, Loe, etc.
by Topgun22 on Jun 10, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Desperate need
We have other candidates that would not have required the steps it took to get Hurley here. Gabbard, Harrison, and Mendoza (if he is healthy) are all on the 40 man roster so you don’t have to think twice about them if thats who you wanted. With Hurley you have to not only look at how you are going to add him to the 40 man now, which was easy given the openings we have, but also how it may affect later this season or more. What if we are in contention and decide to add a guy to this team? He would obviously need a spot on the roster so who would get cut if we traded away guys who were in our lower minors and not on the 40 man. This signifies to me that they think Hurley is ready. My only hope is that if he goes out and has 2, 3 or 4 games in a row where his control is maybe off or he gives up a few long balls they don’t start second guessing themselves and send him down because then you have just robbed not only yourselves but him a full year of potential development by burning an option.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jun 10, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the organization has a lot of faith in Hurley's mental toughness and approach.
They complimented him on it during ST, when in at least one start he had a rough 1st inning but then settled down and did his thing. He’s obviously taken to making adjustments when faced with poor performance, and those adjustments have made improvements in his performance.
The organization is rewarding Hurley (rightly IMO), and it appears to me that they feel he will make this a constructive experience, taking a trip back to OKC as a disappointment but also with a list of things to do to get better and get back. I think this is a great move, especially with the Royals as his first opponent.
He’s definitely improved his facial hair to a ML level.
by rooster on Jun 10, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hurley v. Danks..
For those of you who are a lot more aware of prospect rankings and such than I am… How does Hurley compare to Danks? Who’s the higher thought of prospect when they were at similar points developmentally? (ie Danks last offseason v. Hurley this offseason)
by Topgun22 on Jun 10, 2008 11:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
About the same
The White Sox have said they probably should have started Danks off at AAA last year so around this time is when he probably would have been making his debut. They wuld be about the same age making their debuts. Hurley has actually had better numbers in the minor leagues at most stops at the same age as Danks was. I think because of Danks’ draft position and being a lefty he was more highly touted but numbers wise they were very similar.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jun 10, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both highly regarded. BA had Danks ahead of Hurley. Sickels had it the other way around.
BA’s 2006 prospect rankings had Danks #1, Hurley #2, Volquez #3.
Sickels’ 2006 rankings had Hurley #1, Volquez #2, Danks #3, all with B+ grades.
by rooster on Jun 10, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sickels on Hurley
He backed off of last year’s enthusiasm recently, fwiw.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jun 10, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. I did notice that.
It seemed like a major concession by Sickels, and bad timing since he’s been a Hurley guy from Day 1 and it looks like Hurley may have made some real adjustments to his game.
by rooster on Jun 10, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looking back at the BA rankings is fun.
prior to 2006:
Best fastball: Volquez
Best curveball: Danks
Best slider: Rupe
Best changeup: Volquez
Best control: Feldman
prior to 2007:
Best fastball: Hurley (really? Better than TD?)
Best curveball: Danks
Best Slider: Rupe
Best Changeup: Volquez
Best Control: DRH
2010 Rotation:
#1 Danks
#2 Hurley
#3 Millwood
#4 Volquez
#5 TD
closer Otsuka
2010 Lineup:
C: Laird
1B: Teixeira
2B: Kinsler
SS: Young
3B: Blalock
LF: JMJ
CF: Wlkerson
RF: Cruz
DH: Botts
prior to 2008:
Best fastball: Feliz
Best curveball: Neil Ramirez
Best slider: Hurley (not Beavan?)
Best changeup: Kiker
Best control: Harrison
2011 rotation:
#1 Hurley
#2 Feliz
#3 Main
#4 Beavan
#5 BMac
closer Kiker
2011 lineup:
C: TT
1B: Salty
2B: Young
SS: Andrus
3B: Davis
LF: Beltre
CF: Borboun
RF: Hamilton
Here’s where 2010 appears to be headed IMO:
#1 Millwood (or FA)
#2 BMac
#3 Hurley
#4 Feldman
#5 Gabbard
closer CJ
C: Salty
1B: Davis
2B: Kinsler
SS: Andrus
3B: Young
LF: Murphy/Bradley
CF: Borboun
RF: Hamilton
DH: Maximus/Bradley
by rooster on Jun 10, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2010
Id say Harrison and Hunter should be here by then with Kiker knocking on the door.
Also where is Smoak in 2010? Still in the minors or is he ready for the Big Show
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jun 10, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
smoak
should be either in the mlb on opening day 2010 or a mid season callup if things go according to plan.
at least as far as being ready. there could be some issues if chris davis and a dh (bradley extended, maxram, who knows) have established themselves. which are the guys hes got in there.
Bring up Justin Smoak
by DSheppard on Jun 10, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smoak
He’s on the ML level in 2010, or else he’s missed expectations or gotten hurt.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jun 10, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably should have Harrison at #5 instead of Gabbard.
Hunter might be a guy in the pen or he might be the #5 guy. Some of these dudes are going to be traded.
I hope Smoak is so good he’s on the roster in 2010, but I’d bet later in the year in 2010 is his earliest arrival. If he’s breaks camp with the Rangers in 2010, he’ll be the 1B and Davis will either be gone, in AAA (perhaps struggling to transition to ML), or the DH.
by rooster on Jun 10, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt Gabbard or Feldman stick in the rotation
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on Jun 10, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There will be a pitcher acquired this offseason
who will slot into the rotation for next year I believe. I think they want to start the contention window next year.
...and curse Sir Sidney Ponson, he was such a stupid git.
by t ball on Jun 10, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't agree
JD (and I think NR) have stated that they will develop their pitchers internally to fill the ML rotation. The cost of obtaining a SP via FA or trade has become VERY expensive.
Brandon Boggs 2008 Texas Rangers ROY
by RangerMad on Jun 10, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Expensive
Yes, but I still think they’ll go after someone if they see an opportunity and they feel the value is there. They’re not going to hand out any $200 mil contracts, or trade away half the farm, but you can’t look at JD’s record and doubt that he’ll pull the trigger if he can someone he believes in.
...and curse Sir Sidney Ponson, he was such a stupid git.
by t ball on Jun 10, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like Who?
Who is a FA this winter?
by FuturePants on Jun 10, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
CC Sabathia, Ben Sheets, Oliver Perez
Joe Morgan: (On Jay Bruce) I think he will. He brings energy to the team, and besides that, he is a pretty good hitter.
Ken Tremendous: I like that the #1 reason he will help his team is: "energy," and the distant #2 reason is: "ability to hit baseballs."
by TheBZA on Jun 10, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree on Perez being a pass
but why would you be against the first two?
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 10, 2008 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sheets is perpetually hurt
Sabathia might not be worth the money, based on this year’s performance.
by lonestarJon on Jun 10, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
CC has done really well since his early season hickups
"There is no reason for me to move to third base," Young said.
-FOTF 5/20/2008
"Well, we are one of the cheapest teams in Major League Baseball"
-Tom Hicks 4/8/2008
by Jayslick on Jun 10, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
CC had a horrible April
where his trademark fantastic control abandoned him to the tune of 14 walks in 26.2 innings after allowing 37 free passes in 241 innings all of last year. But he was back to his usual self in May.
ERA+ of 140 and 143 the past two years. The guy is about as studly a pitcher as you could possibly expect to hit the market these days.
And Sheets is a pure dominator when healthy. You’re taking a risk by signing him, but you’re not going to find a sure thing on the FA pitching market. They don’t exist. I’d rather take a risk on a guy I knew was going to be great if he stayed healthy than on a guy like Gil Meche or Ted Lilly who aren’t very good to begin with.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 10, 2008 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
And he’s only 27 (28 in July), making signing him to a longterm contract halfway viable.
I’m still not sure he’s worth the money, but that would be a helluva lot better than making a big trade for Jeremy Bonderman or Zach Grienke at this point.
by lonestarJon on Jun 10, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My reasoning behind wanting Sheets
He won’t want CC money and you’re obviously rolling the dice with him. However, if he’s healthy come playoff time, he gives us Ace potential
Joe Morgan: (On Jay Bruce) I think he will. He brings energy to the team, and besides that, he is a pretty good hitter.
Ken Tremendous: I like that the #1 reason he will help his team is: "energy," and the distant #2 reason is: "ability to hit baseballs."
by TheBZA on Jun 10, 2008 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I'd rather have Sheets, too
and for much the same reasons. He’s the kind of guy I’d love to be able throw out there in game 1 of a playoff series.
What do you think it’d take to get him here, assuming he stays healthy and productive all year and heads into the off season coming off a great season?
5yrs/80mil? More? Less?
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 10, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For what it's worth
and maybe not much, but Sheets lives in the Dallas area. That might add an ounce of weight into his decision, but only if the pile of money weighs more. We wouldn’t get a hometown discount.
Just keep your mask on and umpire the game! - Tom Grieve, 5/25/08
by EssBee on Jun 10, 2008 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not that I'd know
But that seems about right. A little high, but what the market will dictate.
Joe Morgan: (On Jay Bruce) I think he will. He brings energy to the team, and besides that, he is a pretty good hitter.
Ken Tremendous: I like that the #1 reason he will help his team is: "energy," and the distant #2 reason is: "ability to hit baseballs."
by TheBZA on Jun 10, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
horrible April
were you here for our April this year and last?
¡yo soy Horsedooty!
I soloed in the mile high club.
by Sr Horsedooty on Jun 10, 2008 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
I’m also here right now waiting for you to explain the point you’re trying to get across by asking that particular question.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 10, 2008 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tried to reply to the post on CC Sabathia and having a bad April We had a bad April this year and last. That is all
¡yo soy Horsedooty1
I soloed in the mile high club.
by Sr Horsedooty on Jun 10, 2008 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
uberfatty, injured too much, sucks
uberfatty won’t be worth the contract he wants. if i HAD to choose, i would probably go after Sheets out of the 3 only if the contract is not THAT bad.
by Longhorn on Jun 10, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So
your argument against a run at CC is that he’s fat?
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 10, 2008 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re:
i don’t see him as a guy that ‘ages well’. Not sure you want to invest several years, and what, 100+MM on him? He’s had an up and down here, more on the downside, with 6 of his 13 starts being solid.
I dunno, i guess i just don’t trust a 300+lb pitcher.
by Longhorn on Jun 10, 2008 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are forgetting the greatness
of Franklin German…...oh, yeah. Nevermind.
Just keep your mask on and umpire the game! - Tom Grieve, 5/25/08
by EssBee on Jun 10, 2008 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
uberfatty, injured too much, sucks
Is that your match.com profile?
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on Jun 10, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Laugh Out Loud
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 10, 2008 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As said
Sabathia isn’t going to be worth his contract. He’ll be getting paid like 75 million dollars to be pitching like an ace in his early-mid 30s. I’d rather pay that money to guys that the Rangers developed to keep them here through their prime years.
by Gdawg on Jun 10, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perez
May not have hit his peak, even yet. Just an opinion. It will be interesting to see if the Mets spend big to keep him.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Jun 10, 2008 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not looking good so far
this year.
...and curse Sir Sidney Ponson, he was such a stupid git.
by t ball on Jun 10, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sheets
It truly amazes me how so many people constantly moan and groan about our pitchers being hurt yet want to go out and sign a guy who has been perpetually hurt the last 3 years. Oh hes not hurt this year. Hmmm wonder if thats because its his FA year and he knows he is about to cash in. The guy will turn 30 in July. No thank you.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jun 10, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think
He was faking his injuries before? Hiding them now? His body somehow knows it’s a contract year?
None of those make sense, and I’d bet that none of them are correct.
Almost every player has a wart or two.
by brettgardner on Jun 10, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not what I meant
I wasn’t trying to imply he has been faking or anything although now that I reread it it does sound like that. I am though saying that Sheets has been injured, and injured pretty severely, before in his career. We aren’t talking about a 15 day DL trip once a year. We are talking about long term injuries. Its one thing if you are signing the guy to a one year deal for minimal money in an incentive laden deal but Sheets is going to be seeking a big deal. And if he plays all year this year injury free he will get one. With all the talk everytime one of our guys goes down with injury I just find it odd that so many want to go out and sign a guy who is reaching to downhill portion of his career with significant injury history to a long term big money deal.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jun 10, 2008 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps
the people doing all the “talking” whenever one of our pitchers go down are not the same people advocating Sheets.
And there’s also a difference between being down on a guy who is mediocre and can’t stay healthy, and being down on guy who has a season in his past where he pitched 237 innings of 162 ERA+ baseball and penchant for injuries.
Like BG said, almost every player has a wart or two. And when it comes to free agent starting pitchers with ace potential, that goes double.
If you don’t like the risk associated with Sheets, that’s fine. Perfectly reasonable. But I fail to see how it’s amazing that some of us would love to get him here next winter.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 10, 2008 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was 4 years ago
Since then he hasn’t pitched over 156 innings in a single season or made more than 24 starts. Hes not getting any younger.
I fully understand its not the same people on each side of the argument. I for one wouldn’t mind us having him. Although I would want an extremely incentive laden deal which like I said if he goes injury free this year he will be able to get one without all the incentives.
Would he help this club when healthy…absolutely. But I have a real good feeling that the same people who are calling for us to throw another CHP type deal around will be the ones who are saying we don’t know what we are doing when he gets hurt again or doesn’t duplicate the 160+ ERA+ he did 4 years ago.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jun 10, 2008 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sheets
Unless the guy has a serious arm injury this year requiring surgery(or he just sucks the rest of the year), he’s probably going to get a big deal without the incentives. I think the team that signs him this offseason is going to have to put down at least a 4 or 5 year deal, and offer at least 13 or 14 mil a year.
That said, given the upside of such a deal and the current state of the team (young, inexpensive, terrible pitching), I think a deal for a pitcher with Sheets’ talent and past performance is worth the risk.
by jcir454 on Jun 10, 2008 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK thats fine
I think you are in the ballpark of what he is going to get on the open market. And I am not against signing the guy. He is a major talent who is a legit front of the rotation guy, when healthy.
My point is as long as if in 2 years he has another injury and is out for an extended period of time, and can’t come back from it because he would be a 32-33 year old pitcher, then people better not be coming on here saying what a stupid signing it was and how we are hamstrung because of his contract.
Im not pointing the finger at anyone in this conversation or really anyone in particular. But based on the discussion on another thread about how stupid our GM is because of the Danks trade because BMac is injured I don’t want to see the same thing in a couple years because of this.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jun 10, 2008 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea
Well, theres always going to be irrational people who want to blame someone for everything and forget hindsight. That said, this is all speculation, and as much as I would love to see Sheets pitch for the Rangers, it probably won’t happen.
by jcir454 on Jun 10, 2008 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't control what idiots are going to think in hindsight
and you can’t base your decisions on it either.
Don’t let the dumb-dumbs win.
If you don’t like a move based on the merits of the move itself, fine. But don’t oppose a deal just cause you don’t want to hear the trolls troll about it.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 10, 2008 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sheets contract
Unfortunately, I’d say your estimates are on the low side.
See Meche, Gil. Similar stuff, similar health history, less MLB success, 2 years later.
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on Jun 10, 2008 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ehh
Meche averaged 11 mil per year so i think 13 would be a starting point for Sheets. Depending on the amount of interest it could certainly get up in the 16 mil range but I think that would be about as high as it gets
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jun 10, 2008 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My over under prediction: 5/80
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on Jun 10, 2008 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
5/80 for Sheets...
Would B-Cart-T do it?
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 10, 2008 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I would
I’m a bigger Sheets fan than most.
And it also obviously goes back to the fat girl at the prom dilemma. We have a low payroll. Grabbing a pitcher like Sheets is what we have to do when we have the chance.
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on Jun 10, 2008 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
Meche and Sheets do NOT have similar stuff, imo.
And are you saying Sheets has had less MLB success than Meche? Or vice versa? I’m betting it’s vice versa, but still… they are very different animals.
Meche didn’t post an ERA+ of 100 or better in any of his final four seasons in Seattle, and his first year in KC was the first time he ever got his WHIP below 1.3 (an astounding 1.296). Sheets is far better than Meche.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 10, 2008 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I meant vice versa
I agree. Meche had little quantifiable success before becoming a FA.
And I could be wrong, but I bet most cognoscenti would say that Meche has always had great stuff, Sheetian level stuff, without the results.
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on Jun 10, 2008 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like Who? Free agents.
- Sheets would be my target. You try to see if you can get an incentive contract based on starts and/or IP. The Rangers have payroll room, so they should be taking a risk like this if their goal is to contend in 2009.
- AJ Burnett. He can opt out of his contract and I expect him to do so.
- Sabathia may be traded this summer, but you at least kick the tires on him. He’ll probably be too expensive. Considering all the innings he’s thrown I consider him to be older than his real age in pitching terms.
- Jon Garland. He’s only 28 and is a decent bet to put up an ERA + of 100-110 and throw 200 innings. Don’t overlook the value of innings considering what a lack of them does to the bullpen.
- Derek Lowe. For the same reason as Garland, but only if he doesn’t cost too much.
As far as trade targets I have no idea…
...and curse Sir Sidney Ponson, he was such a stupid git.
by t ball on Jun 10, 2008 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sheets and Sabathia
Those guys interest me. I doubt Sheets will take any sort of discount in money or years because of past injury history though, so I think JD and the Rangers are going to have to be very aggressive. I’m sure he’ll want a deal at least in the neighborhood of Gil Meche’s or Millwood’s deals.
by jcir454 on Jun 10, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm ok with that
because I think there is no doubt that Sheets is a much better pitcher than either Millwood or Meche.
...and curse Sir Sidney Ponson, he was such a stupid git.
by t ball on Jun 10, 2008 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see
Wilson as the closer in 2010. Diamond, Hunter, Madrigal or some other hard throwing RHP will be the closer.
Brandon Boggs 2008 Texas Rangers ROY
by RangerMad on Jun 10, 2008 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As people above said
Gabbard and Feldman likely won’t stick in the rotation till then. If they do, it’ll mean a few key things with our young pitchers didn’t go right.
Hopefully, the 2010 rotation will look more like:
Millwood (if not traded)
McCarthy
Hurley
Matt Harrison
Tommy Hunter
I also don’t think CJ sticks at closer, so I’d pencil in Diamond or Madrigal there. Not sure what happens to CJ though – but I might try him in the rotation, especially if Millwood’s not there any longer.
As for the lineup:
C: Salty
1B: Justin Smoak
2B: Kinsler
3B: MY
SS: Andrus
LF: Murphy/Boggs platoon or Bradley/Chris Davis
CF: Borbon or Murphy/Boggs
RF Hammy
DH: Chris Davis/Bradley
My guess is, Max Ramirez and/or Taylor Teagarden will be involved in some kind of trade, possibly for a good young pitcher or CF.
by lonestarJon on Jun 10, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Davis
If he is in the outfield it will be in right not left. Less space to cover and his arm is supposedly suited for right field
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jun 10, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but
So is Josh Hamilton’s arm, though I suppose Hammy’s range would be more effective in LF… it would be interesting to see what the Rangers would do if they actually did have to align Davis and Hamilton between RF/LF.
by lonestarJon on Jun 10, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OKC Video
LINK
Scroll to 14:00 to see Cruz’ moonshot HR – watch the LF’er
Scroll to 54:00 to see Davis’ gapper to L-CF
Scroll to 1:28:00 to see Davis’ gapper to L-CF
Both Davis’ hits were off lefty Sam Narron.
Scrol to 2:37:00 to see Madrigal close the last inning
by shroomer on Jun 10, 2008 11:43 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
how very convenient
make such posts as often as possible!
Bring up Justin Smoak
by DSheppard on Jun 10, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as for the actual events.
i am definitely still looking forward to another look at cruz. perhaps byrd still gets traded. that was quite a shot.
nice to see that davis already has his AAA ops up to the 825 range. no shame there for a guy his age adjusting to AAA. for some reason the first oppo gap shot reminded me of a ryan howard swing.
warner madrigal looks like bartolo colons younger brother. didnt look all that impressive to me though. decent.
Bring up Justin Smoak
by DSheppard on Jun 10, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shit
Madrigal looks like Bartolo Colon.
by coolaid on Jun 10, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So that's why the Angels had to let him go ...
"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'
I’ll give ya something.
1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"
~ The Immortal, BG
by Chase Irwin on Jun 10, 2008 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you bitches have so much time
to write these essays?
There is no such thing as global warming. David Murphy was cold, so he turned the sun up.
by SarasotaRanger on Jun 10, 2008 2:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well we all live in our parents' basements
and none of us has ever known the touch of a woman, which helps.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 10, 2008 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That reminds me of some greatness
LSB comedy gold:
http://www.lonestarball.com/2007/7/13/12321/3938#2654110
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on Jun 10, 2008 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clueless goes all the way back to 2007?
I didn’t know that.
by lonestarJon on Jun 10, 2008 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"All the way back..."
You make 2007 sound like Clueless pre-dates the Korean War.
"Hello win column..."
by rangersfan34 on Jun 10, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it's just that Clueless wasn't posting when I originally came here
(Which, admittedly, was only back in January) and when he did start posting, everyone seemed to act as if he was a newbie. And with people still making references to “his first login” just today, I’m just a little suprised at seeing that he actually predates me.
But as far as “all the way back” goes… I do try to think of the 2007 season as if it was back around the time of the Korean War.
by lonestarJon on Jun 10, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just giving you a hard time...
I lurk around here much more than I post, so I don’t follow the time frames of various posters that closely either. I’ve been an LSBer since the fall of 2006 and I think you’ve made about ten times the number of posts as me in significantly less time.
Kudos to you for your passion toward all things Ranger related!
"Hello win column..."
by rangersfan34 on Jun 10, 2008 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
Thanks. Most people like to rag me for that, I guess I just have a lot to say. I will admit, I’ve had a tendency to overpost in the past, but I have tried to work on that…
by lonestarJon on Jun 10, 2008 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Work is a relative term...
I am management so the term work does not really apply.
by Bigfan16 on Jun 10, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
soothsayers
could one of you guys that have a crystal ball, look into it and send me the numbers for Saturday nites lottery pick. I need the gas money. Surely, one of you guys that know how the Rangers will look in 2009 or 10 can do that, right?
¡yo soy Horsedooty!
I soloed in the mile high club.
by Sr Horsedooty on Jun 10, 2008 3:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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