New Rangers newsletter up
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 11, 2008 10:16 AM CDT
Email
PrintEvan Grant has a new Rangers newsletter up...
Discussion of the attendance problems and why there won't be a retractable roof on TBIA, Justin Smoak, Sidney Ponson, Thomas Diamond, and more...
Check it out...
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RE: low attendance
I for one haven’t gone to as many games as previous years due to the gas price crunch. Especially when you factor in the cost of parking/tickets/food and such. Oh and I live in Fort Worth. I can’t see how the Rangers are supposed to draw from Dallas consistently.
The Rangers would be greatly served by offering a train service from both downtowns (a la the TRE) to the stadioum. It won’t happen but I can dream about it.
Derek
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
Not to mention
The Rangers raised ticket prices for the millionth time this season. At some point raised ticket prices, high gas prices, crazy parking and concessions will get more and more fans sitting at home watching from the recliner. I’m like you Derek, I’m in NRH, and it’s costly to make it to a game unless you sit in the nosebleeds, walk a mile from a free parking lot (Wal-Mart), and sneak a couple of beers in (thank goodness for cargo pockets). As it is, I’ve only been to games when they had half-price tickets or $10 tickets.
Who really buys the “it’s hot” argument? When is it not hot in Texas? We’re used to it and can handle the heat to take in a game.
Have you noticed
That no one with the Rangers or the media cites the economy for the attendance drop?
Where is Mick Kelleher when we need him?
by 3744nsheffield on Jun 11, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
What's your point?
That they’re ignorant?
by Dirk Diggler on Jun 11, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
no...
...they don’t wanna blame the ex-bossman and current president…
To be fair... You are a fan of School of Rock so your ability to judge anything is VASTLY overrated!!!!
~King Billy Royal, Minor League Ball
by ivysafety39 on Jun 11, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that's a stretch
More likely is they don’t want to put the big looming issue of the economy (and less disposable income for the fans) directly into the fans’ heads. Kinda like they’re hoping people just won’t think about it and still spend the money.
Obviously it’s not working, but I don’t blame them for not advertising the fact that I might not have enough money to go to the games.
by Dirk Diggler on Jun 11, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
interesting that grant
didn’t mention different (truer) methods of counting as part of the lower attendance figures, like was brought up on the new podcast.
Rail Access/Fans from North Dallas
It’s in the works, but it’ll probably be 2040 or something before it’s open. It would still be quite a train ride from, say, Plano.
They’re demolishing Reunion, so I hear. I know the Temple’s only something like 15 years old, but it was built right before they figured out how do make a decent retractable roof. And as I’ve said before, they put the stadium in the wrong place. If it sat where Reunion sits now, it would have rail access immediately. From TRE, red line, blue line, and the future green line. You might have some kind of people mover from Union Station or maybe Convention Center, but it’s workable.
Timing’s just wrong.
But, yes, I think the gasoline prices and other economic factors are coming into play along with the team not winning, of course. With any luck the winning will be fixed shortly, but those other factors will stay in play for years to come.
by Black Francis on Jun 11, 2008 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions
+ 1
I think the Rangers canabilized there own market a bit with the Roughriders…
I will be attending my 3rd RR game this Sunday with 0 trips to RBIA.
I live in Collin County and with such an attractive option so close to home its hard to justify the drive to Arlington.
Please forgive any and all typos, mispellings, etc.
Your kindess in this matter is appreciated.
by red shoe ranger on Jun 11, 2008 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
I’m in collin county, and bought a RR ticket pack. going to our third or 4th (cant remember) game this weekend. it’s a quick 10min drive and doesn’t use as much gas. a trip to arlington , if it’s a weekday game at 7p (which means traffic) i can count on using at least 1/2 tank there and back.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
I'm glad Feldman's arm slot was corrected
That’s something we rarely, if ever, succeed at.
I feel good about Feldman in the rotation from here on. Mathis, no thanks.
Millwood/Padilla/McCarthy/Feldman/Hurley
That’s decent.
That would actually...
be pretty good not just decent IF McCarthy came back healthy and pitching to his ability.
That’s a pretty big IF though.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
predicts smoak wont be a starter until 2012? what?
that is some awful slow progression for a polished college hitter.
and wow, i didnt realize salty was 2 for 37…. i knew it was bad but not that bad. still dont care that much though.
Bring up Justin Smoak
2 for 37 is wrong anyway...
hes 5 for 40 as a ranger.
of course, thats not too great either.
also, im surprised he balked at maxram/font/arias for greinke. not saying id do it, but you have to give to get.
Bring up Justin Smoak
Agreed
I’d almost do it just to be first in line to talk contract extension. we are going to have roster congestion anyway with MaxRam, Davis and Smoak (if everyone develops like they should) and Arias is blocked every which way he turns. I’m a big Font believer, but he’s soooo far away and Greinke is here doing his thing and still in his mid-20’s.
But if you did that deal and DIDN’T re-sign him, that’d be such a huge flop JD probably wouldn’t survive it. Big gamble either way.
Here are just a few of the key ingredients: dynamite, pole vaulting, laughing gas, choppers - can you see how incredible this is going to be? - hang gliding, come on! -- Dignan
He's not
I hate to have to defend him again, but, this is getting old and he’s actually 8-37 which isnt good but most of those SB are on the pitchers. There have also been 3 situations when double steals came into play which both count as SB (which I think suck, because you can only throw one attempt out at a time). Thats 6 SB’s right there. I’ve seen only one pitcher that does a good job with holding runners on (with slide step deliveries, changing his delivery time etc) and thats Millwood, who Jarrod never gets to catch, who is an ex-Brave. That organization is infamous for teaching these skills to their pitchers. It was there that Salty threw out Furcal and Pierre in one game alone. Since he’s been here he has had no chance most of the time to throw anyone out which causes him to rush his throws which usually only meet with bad throws. He has long been known to have a cannon for an arm but when put in these situations any backstop is bound to fail. I know its been said that Laird doesnt have those problems but if you actually watch the catching side of the game you will notice that the vast majority of runners that he throws out are on up and away fastballs which makes it much easier to throw a runner out. I’ve told him he should do the same thing and he has told me on more than one occasion that he deems it more important to help his pitcher get the batter out with a strikeout , ground ball (for a possible DP) or a FO and the runner second. He’s not interested in padding his stats. Thats why, among other things, the pitchers love him to catch them.
I could go on but this is already my longest post ever (and I type with 2 fingers-LOL) and I’m sure that ya’ll think its just homerism anyway. Just watch the catching aspect of the game for awhile and see if what I’ve said isnt true before belittling the kids skills as a catcher. Thanks, and have a good one.
by 525DP on Jun 11, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
Keep posting
I like the insight about elements of the game that may normally go unnoticed.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
The arm is definitely there...
I think if he can get that double-pump fixed, he’ll be fine. I’ve seen him gun down some pretty quick runners, but he didn’t pump like he seems to do sometimes.
It’s more of a glitch than a real problem, to me.
good post
It’s pretty easy to read what Grant wrote in that article and immediately think “this kid can’t throw anyone out.” That’s obviously not the case.
W: "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
by hubcityraider on Jun 11, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I like that you call him Salty
That was the pitchers’ knock on Pudge, too. They said if there was a runner on first he was calling nothing but fastballs away.
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on Jun 11, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
awesome post
plus uno
"There is no reason for me to move to third base," Young said.
-FOTF 5/20/2008
"Well, we are one of the cheapest teams in Major League Baseball"
-Tom Hicks 4/8/2008
Smoak
From the film I’ve seen of him, I think he’ll be hear a LOT quicker than that. Especially if they can sign him and get the guy some AB’s this summer. He’s got a real nice swing from both sides. Might spend a little time at high A but could probably start at AA.
by Black Francis on Jun 11, 2008 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Salty
Was his SB rate as bad in the Minors?
I checked thebaseballcube and minorleaguesplits but I couldn’t find that stat.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jun 11, 2008 11:19 AM CDT reply actions
Most
baserunners were aware of his arm and didnt challenge him very often. I don’t know why they don’t keep those stats in the minors. Guess they don’t deem it important. He has thrown runners out everywhere he’s been, except in TX.
Greinke
Q: Max Ramirez, Wilmer Font and Joaquin Arias for Zach Greinke? What do you think?PJD
GRANT: Think that’s an awful lot to give up for somebody who can be a free agent after the 2009 season. If the Rangers were in the thick of the playoff race at the trading deadline this year, it might be something you’d at least have to think about. But I don’t see that happening, and adding Greinke for this year would be meaningless. I’d much rather wait until 2009 and potentially pursue him as a free agent. He’d only be 26 at that point.
Probably not enough of the right kind of players for the Royals to be interested. They will want instant offense from young players and an immediate replacement for Greinke. More like Salty, Arias, Harrison for Greinke. Greinke is exactly the age of pitcher the Rangers need to acquire; someone who will hit his peak years in 2009-2012. Screw the concerns about FA in 2009. Money-whip his butt.
Greinke
I don’t think he will be a FA after 09. According to Cots he had 3.057 service time after last season. A full season this season and a full season next would only give him a little over 5 years so he would still be arbitration eligible. Maybe someone with more sources or more accurate info can chime in.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Yah, that stuck out to me too
First of all, there’s no freaking way the Royals do that deal. Like, I can’t stress how little of a freaking way there is that the Royals would even consider that.
Second, we’d do that deal in about half a second, and we’d be laughing and skipping and doing a funny cowboy dance for a whole calender year if it got done, cause that would be one of the greatest trades ever.
If the Royals really do entertain the idea of selling Grink for a package of multiple near ready players (which, again, I don’t think they’ll do), we better be all over that, and we better be prepared to deal a lot more than Max, Font, and Arias’ corpse.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 11, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
lol at "funny cowboys dance"
how about the ol’ “1860’s Prospector that Found Gold” dance?
"Does this effectively hide my thunder?"
Best. Handle. Ever.
Joe Morgan: (On Jay Bruce) I think he will. He brings energy to the team, and besides that, he is a pretty good hitter.
Ken Tremendous: I like that the #1 reason he will help his team is: "energy," and the distant #2 reason is: "ability to hit baseballs."
Raise Ticket prices,
coming off a last place finish, and wonder why attendance figures are dropping. Gosh, thats a puzzler.
Here’s a memo to Nolan, you want more butts in seats? Put more W’s up in the standings. By the way, Nolan, since the whole attendance thing seems to baffle you, here is another thing. When you have a pitcher who is pitching well, don’t give him away for nothing. It leads to less Ws. Which leads to less butts in seats.
Damn, that Nolan is a Rhodes Scholar.
Sharky said it, I believe it, that settles it
WWND
"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'
I’ll give ya something.
1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"
~ The Immortal, BG
by inactive lsb user on Jun 11, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Considering the quality of our rotation?
Hell yes. If we had a rotation full of guys you could count on for 5-6 innings a night, you could cut him loose. Or, if you were real smart, you could try to keep leaks from getting to the press, and then trade him for value.
Releasing a Sub 4 ERA guy, who has trade value, when you have guys with 7+ ERAs like Mathis in the rotation, is just stupidity.
Sharky said it, I believe it, that settles it
I hate to say this
but I agree.
I think the club should’ve gotten rid of Ponson, but should’ve kept the “clubhouse cancer” portion as much of a secret as possible and tried to trade him off to, say…anywhere. Making it known that you won’t attempt to keep a guy you just DFA’d makes no sense…unless they thought that Ponson would open his big mouth and ruin things anyway.
At any rate, I really looked forward to getting a nice batch of prospects for that overweight jackass. Oh well.
i think you are vastly overestimating the trade value of sidney ponson
3.88 era or not.
batch of prospects? sorry, but not even close.
Bring up Justin Smoak
How about
one prospect who will be a cheap and useful middle infielder, 4th OF, backup catcher, or bullpen arm? Do you think thats a feasible return for a guy who is pitching well with Texas?
would that be better than nothing?
Sharky said it, I believe it, that settles it
Maybe I hyperbolized...
I never really expected a batch of prospects, but maybe a Kenny Lofton style trade, where we get a solid single-A or double-A level prospect in return. Although we don’t really have a lot of holes at that level…
I guess I also hoped that GMs don’t pay attention to peripherals, or assumed that decent at RBiA would be good at another stadium.
I wonder if Toronto
is happy they got rid of Frank Thomas for nothing after they had that issue after he was benched for a couple of games. Making rash moves like that, really seems to pay off well.
Sharky said it, I believe it, that settles it
Grant is wrong
multiple times.
As was mentioned above, Saltalamacchia allowed 37 SB and caught 8 runners in 2007. I assume he mixed up passed balls with caught stealing on the stat sheet.
Also, Greinke is a free agent after the 2010 season, not after 2009. Rotoworld, MLB4u, and a variety of other sources show that Greinke would be under control for 2.5 years if acquire at the deadline.
With that last fact in mind, I absolutely cannot imagine turning down a Ramirez, Font, and Arias for Greinke trade. Acquiring Greinke would require a lot more. If Daniels turned that down, I would want him fired. (And I really, really like Daniels)
As usual, I'm wrong, but only half wrong
All: Wanted to clear up a couple of things: Salty has thrown out two 37 baserunners since joining the Rangers, but there have also been three caught stealings credited to the pitcher. So, in actuality, you could say he’s 5-for-40. But purely on catcher’s caught stealing, it’s two of 37.
Second, I was indeed wrong on Greinke’s service time. I didn’t check Cot’s, used mlb4u.com and when it didn’t have service time, I calculated my own. I neglected to figure in time that he was optioned to the minors after coming off the 60 day DL in 2006. So, I came up with him being a four-plus player. He was actually simply a three-plus player. If the Rangers traded for him this summer, they’d have him for two-plus years.
My gut would be to not do Max, Font and Arias for Greinke, but it certainly is something I’d consider. I think a lot of it would depend on whether he could make a difference this year as well and if adding him for 2009 really and truly made this team a contender. Does a rotation of Greinke, Millwood, Padilla, Feldman and (insert Hurley, Mendoza, McCarthy, Gabbard, Mathis here) make this team a real contender for next year. I’m not sure. Maybe I’m too slow on trigger. This week, I’m in more of a hold ‘em mode. Next week: I might be saying go for it.
Thanks for the corrections. I do appreciate it. And sorry for any misinformation.
Evan
by Evan Grant on Jun 11, 2008 1:52 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Your local (in the internet sense) fact-checking service at your service.
I would do backflips to get Greinke for that.
I floated the idea of Greinke on the block over at www.royalsreview.com (they along with the Twins have long been my second favorite teams). They seemed to think Greinke was as important to the Royals as Hamilton is to the Rangers. A Salty, Hurley, and JMJ trade idea (instant young offense, replacement for Greinke, and maybe future offense whose a local kid with family ties to the org) was mildly interesting to them. I doubt Greinke goes anywhere, but if he’s out there, the Rangers need to be a finalist for him, and it will hurt to get him.
mildly interesting?
i bet, thats a retarded trade on our end
"There is no reason for me to move to third base," Young said.
-FOTF 5/20/2008
"Well, we are one of the cheapest teams in Major League Baseball"
-Tom Hicks 4/8/2008
Well, again, their view is that Greinke is as important to the Royals next 5 seasons as Hamilton is to the Rangers next 5 seasons.
Salty, Hurley, JMJ for Hamilton? No thanks.
except that he wont resign with them and they can afford it if he did and he has 2.5 years left and Hambone has 5 years left
they brought him up early and his clock has been ticking b/c of it. i can see them thinking he is as valuable as Hammy, but he isnt signed as long so its not the same at all.
honestly, i couldnt see giving up any of those guys for 2.5 years of zach, i like him a lot, but i dont like his shorter time line and our guys all have at least 4 for season and JMJ and hurley have 6 and are about ready for the show or are in the show.
i figure we dont wanna give that much up and they want the moon, but thats a crazy offer.
"There is no reason for me to move to third base," Young said.
-FOTF 5/20/2008
"Well, we are one of the cheapest teams in Major League Baseball"
-Tom Hicks 4/8/2008
You're really overvaluing our guys
and undervaluing what a young, good pitcher with ace potential under team control for 2.5 years is worth.
I’d try like hell to get them to take Harrison over Hurley, but I’d do that deal right now, no questions asked and laugh all the way to the bank.
The Royals wouldn’t, though.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 11, 2008 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
naw i understand the value
but when he walks in 2.5 years and you lost 3 guys who will easily contribute to the next 3.5 years on your major league roster and will have likely all played this season and the next 2 years. one of the guys was the centerpiece for trading your huge bat last year…
so lets say you get 2.5 years of zach, then what? whats that get you? we arent gonna be good now, we arent gonna be good next year, so then maybe he makes the difference the final year he’s here, and you gave up 3 prime chips.
that deal has regret written all over it.
so 3 1st round picks (one is our best pitching prospect to contribute over then next 2 years, one is finally seeing the potential we hoped he’d have, and the last is considered one of the top catching prospects in baseball) is the cost of zach f’n greinke?
no thanks.
"There is no reason for me to move to third base," Young said.
-FOTF 5/20/2008
"Well, we are one of the cheapest teams in Major League Baseball"
-Tom Hicks 4/8/2008
Greinke
O, you do that deal.
Even if you have to soothe yourself with a mantra of “Smoooooak…Smoooooak” to let go of Max, you do it.
Greinke can grow with this team. This team still hasn’t solved its near-term starting pitching needs.
The real point is KC could get more.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jun 11, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
C'Mon, Evan
You gotsta do that deal. It’s the very definition of a no-brainer. It’s actually sort f silly from KC’s end. They get three talented players, none of which have had even a modicum of success at the major league level.
Hell, WingDing hasn’t even played full season ball.
And if we added the Grink we’d probably be in “buy” mode this off season, no?
Does a rotation of Sabathia/Sheets, Millwood, Grienke, Padzilla and Feldman/BMac/Hurley/Mendoza/Whoever make this team a real contender next year? You have a real uphill battle in front of you if you want to convince me it doesn’t.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 11, 2008 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks Evan-
A lot of good information in the report, nonetheless. The caught stealing clarification make sense. Thanks for clearing that up!
Keep up the good work. I really enjoy reading all your stuff.
Too hot for this type of stadium, and.....
When the Rangers announced the new stadium the first thing i said was it must be a dome or even better have a retractable roof, i could not believe they did not build it that way, how stupid can these people be, the main reason this team never wins anything (or ever won in the past) is due to the extreme heat that does take a toll on players and the fans, and you now have an owner who cares more about the profit margin than winning, profit is fine this is after all a business but he is short sited, a winning team will garner the owner (Hicks) much more money than the same old loosing effort year after year, get us an owner like Mark Cuban in here and a retractable roof and i would bet you will see a winning team in Arlington.
dome stadiums
I would go for that. Wasn’t Tom Grieve responsible for not having a dome here? I want to say that but I really don’t remember.
¡yo soy Horsedooty!
I soloed in the mile high club.
If he was, then Jeebus bless him
Cause domes super duper suck for baseball.
Not sure the retractable roofs were a realistic option back then (when did those first appear?) but that would have been the ideal solution.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 11, 2008 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
Screw the dome. The reason the Rangers don’t make the playoffs year in and year out is not because it gets to hot it is because of the talent on the field. Atlanta plays in the same kind of weather as we do and they made the playoffs what 15 straight years? Please.
"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley
no1 goes to atlanta games either
in case you didnt realize.
"There is no reason for me to move to third base," Young said.
-FOTF 5/20/2008
"Well, we are one of the cheapest teams in Major League Baseball"
-Tom Hicks 4/8/2008
Jay when they were winnig they did
Maybe not now or the last few years.
"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley
But look past the fans
Someone said farther up the heat is the reason the Rangers don’t win. Not to mention in the mid to late 90’s when the Rangers did make it to the playoffs the fans came out.
"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley
Exactly
So I guess it wasn’t hot in the summers of ‘96, ‘98, and ‘99.
Funny, I sure don’t remember it that way.
by Dirk Diggler on Jun 11, 2008 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Thank Dirk
That was my point.
"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley
Atlanta Weather
It’s hot, but it’s not generally as hot as it is here. Look up the numbers.
I’ve spent some time there. It’s more humid but they actually have cool days now and then. Here it’s just relentless day after day, week after week, month after month. Atlanta is warmer but similar to DC: It can get just as hot as it gets here, but doesn’t very often, and is even more miserable when it does. But on any given average day it’s not as bad. And the nights are significantly cooler.
Since AZ and HOU are domed/roofed/whatever, I can’t help but to think that the Rangers play in the most brutal conditions in MLB. Here the humidity is significant and the sun is nothing short of horrific. Rain is rare, and when that does happen it most often feels like you’re in the tropics afterward.
by Black Francis on Jun 11, 2008 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions
BUT
...people adapt. Athletes are probably better equipped to adapt than the rest of us are. It’s not an excuse, then, but it’s still not a good thing. Especially if you’re a fan.
by Black Francis on Jun 11, 2008 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions
If we could have a stadium like Arizona's
that would be ideal. Of course that was built about 4 years after RBiA.
Basically, anyone bitching, moaning, or theorizing about changing the ballpark to add a roof, dome, or whatever is wasting their time.
If it was feasible, and considered a legit problem, they would’ve done something about it already.
Ultimately, winning will put butts in the seats. People go outside and do stuff all the time in the summer, but they only do it when they’re having fun. For the casual fan, it’s not very fun to sit in the heat and watch absolutely crappy baseball.
by Dirk Diggler on Jun 11, 2008 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Domes suck
Back then I think the only retractable roof was SkyDome, right? It sucks, too.
by Black Francis on Jun 11, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
domes
I am not saying that a domed stadium is the ideal but it is a much nicer environs to sit and enjoy a game in August in North Texas. I don’t know if the teams would play any better but speaking for me and me alone, I would enjoy being at the ballpark and not have to sweat thru a shirt and pants just to watch some guys play baseball.
¡yo soy Horsedooty!
I soloed in the mile high club.
I'd rather watch a baseball game in Hell
...than in a dome. One of these nice, new retractable roofs would be nice, however. Real grass. Open at night when the sun is down. No rain outs. No weird rules for hitting speakers or catwalks.
I’m not an engineer but I can’t see a way they could retrofit the Temple without ruining it completely. And it would probably cost almost as much as building a new stadium. Retrofits are always expensive. Plus, where would they play while construction is going on? It would take more than an off season to do something of that magnitude, I’d guess.
On a completely unrelated note:
I was going down Stadium Dr. today and noticed that they still haven’t replaced the damaged windscreens. Are they THAT cheap? And the off-colored panels on the outfield wall are an eyesore as well. When you consider how much the MLB minimum salary is, you’d think things like that wouldn’t even be a drop in the bucket.
by Black Francis on Jun 11, 2008 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions
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