Julio Borbon comparison

by 8legs2fangs on Jun 14, 2008 12:19 PM CDT Comment 60 comments

Thanks to Hindman for this...it's an interesting look.

Borbon = Carl Crawford (possibly) ? I'll talke it! Doesn't strike out much, tons of speed to steal 50 bases, incredible CF defense, a little pop. If he can just work on his BB ratio a little...he'd be a nice piece in 2010.

I'll pass on Corey Patterson though...

LF - Murphy/Boggs, CF - Borbon, RF - Hamilton (Byrd/JMJ in there somewhere)...

http://rangersfarmreport.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/06/run_dont_walk_projecting_julio.html

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Somewhere in between

I think. He’s having an encouraging year, but I’m not going to let myself get too excited just yet. Still, the fact that he is putting up a .745 OPS right now is good. We talk a lot about how the Cal league is a hitters paradise, but the league OPS is .736 right now, down from .770 last year. Above average offense from a strong defensive CF is a very nice thing.

...and curse Sir Sidney Ponson, he was such a stupid git.

by t ball on Jun 14, 2008 12:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

who hasn't

seen his power really emerge yet and is more of a speedy, contact hitter type of player.

by Gdawg on Jun 14, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

don't think

that byrd is still on the team by then. and hopefully if murphy is platooning in outfield with boggs both players are gone. if the team is gonna be a contender by 2010, i’d hope they have full time players at all positions. lefty pitcher or not.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Jun 14, 2008 12:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

What is wrong with a platoon?

by Adam J. Morris on Jun 14, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

imho

nothing

That is not me in the photo, so relax.

by rldwb on Jun 14, 2008 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Borbon's defense

Pet peeve of mine is calling an OF w/ a horrible throwing arm a plus defender. A rangy fly-catcher in CF isn’t the worst thing in the world, but a guy that can’t throw is NOT a plus defender IMO.

Pedro: "I wasn't cockfighting, I just have a wide stance."

by tricer on Jun 14, 2008 12:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Borbon

Who says he has a “horrible throwing arm”?

by Adam J. Morris on Jun 14, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not horrible

but BA says it grades as below-average.

Baseball Time in Arlington

by jparks77 on Jun 14, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sure

But it is a long way from below-average to horrible.

by Adam J. Morris on Jun 14, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also,

it was suggested that his arm could eventually play as average depending on his glove to hand transfer.

Baseball Time in Arlington

by jparks77 on Jun 14, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

just as long...

as he’s no Juan Pierre are we’ll be alright.

by 8legs2fangs on Jun 14, 2008 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

oops

arm, I meant

by 8legs2fangs on Jun 14, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and with his speed

and given his position as CF and not RF, he doesn’t really need a cannon of an arm to be a plus defender.

by Gdawg on Jun 14, 2008 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

not really

If a 55 arm is average, then everything from 54 down to zero is “below average”.

It is pretty much common knowledge that Borbon has a very weak throwing arm, are you saying that he doesn’t?

Pedro: "I wasn't cockfighting, I just have a wide stance."

by tricer on Jun 15, 2008 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am saying...

...that I haven’t read anything that indicates he has a “horrible throwing arm.”

by Adam J. Morris on Jun 15, 2008 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is only one way to find out...

ROADTRIPPPP

"No bear or disco for Juan" - Mr. Santos

by miles on Jun 15, 2008 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

55 is not average

50 is.

by Brett Perryman on Jun 15, 2008 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Borbon

At draft time that was all I heard, over and over, noodle arm.

I wonder if the criticism was in the context of the high first rounder the team had. IOW, Borbon’s arm was too flawed for 17 overall.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Jun 14, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good range and reads

Coupled with even a less than average arm sort of read LF at RBIA. Especially if CF and RF are manned by power hitters with big arms. And to be repetitive, LF is the defensive focus field here, the best place to shut down runs against potential action.

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Jun 14, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've seen him play

his arm is fine. It’s not Josh’s cannon, but it’s solid-average. Plus, when you get to balls as fast as he does, that makes up for a lot. You won’t see many guys taking the extra base on Julio.

by bronco28 on Jun 14, 2008 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good to know

thanks

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley

by Rodney on Jun 14, 2008 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just cannot stand

a player, at any position, who cannot throw a ball on a line with some velocity.

I certainly have no idea how strong am arm Bourbon has but I know I love the outfield arms on this team (Catalanatto  does not count)

That is not me in the photo, so relax.

by rldwb on Jun 14, 2008 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have done this twice

and have no idea how it occured.

That is not me in the photo, so relax.

by rldwb on Jun 14, 2008 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Creepy

"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'

I’ll give ya something.

1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"

~ The Immortal, BG

by Chase Irwin on Jun 14, 2008 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Borbon = Carl Crawford

He’d get significantly more attention than he gets right now.

Crawford, although he hasn’t really developed it, has more power potential than Borbon IMO.

by LiamP on Jun 14, 2008 1:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Also

Crawford plays LF not CF.

This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC

by nikpin on Jun 14, 2008 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

but he could play CF.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Jun 14, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Crawford

Probably not as good defensively as Borbon.

by Adam J. Morris on Jun 14, 2008 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What

Do you think of the comparison?

by brettgardner on Jun 14, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Offensively?

Crawford probably represents a good best-case scenario for Borbon.

by Adam J. Morris on Jun 14, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Could he?

I think Tampa pretty much ruled that out.

They had real trouble filling their CF slot over the last few year, and never once did they even think of moving CC over there. From watching him a little bit when I lived in FLA, he’s fast, but he doesn’t get great jumps, and his routs are almost never a straight line.

He’s a LF for a reason.

A fist bump? A pound? A terrorist fist jab?

by thedirkatron on Jun 14, 2008 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's not exactly accurate

he’s played CF there at least a few games a year. they’ve at least considered it and he’s an adequate backup.

Rare Gnats Sex

by ab03 on Jun 15, 2008 1:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sure, then I guess it's safe to say that

He’s a CF like OMFT is a 3b :)

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jun 15, 2008 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well..

the minor league numbers are pretty similar and he’s playing in advanced A ball in his first year… hard to find too much fault with the guy

by bronco28 on Jun 14, 2008 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's early

if he continues like this, he will get the attention

by 8legs2fangs on Jun 14, 2008 2:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Two things that we need to see from Borbon, along with the good things he's doing

Both are relative to what he’s doing now. He needs to get his walk rate up from once every 20 ABs to once every 10. He’s well capable of it, just has to work on his approach. He doesn’t have any problem at all making contact, so I think it’s quite doable, plus he has done it before over stretches. Second, he needs to start showing just a little bit of HR power at some point. It doesn’t have to be now, though it would be nice if he could utilize the good hitters conditions in his league to exhibit a little of the pop that Callis, et al saw in him. He has to be a 10+ HR guy to be effective in the manner that his biggest comp Johnny Damon has been in his career.

by Brett Perryman on Jun 14, 2008 5:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I believe both of those issues

are interconnected. As he hits for more power, I think you’ll see the walks increase as a result. I’m not sure about the crawford comparison because Crawford struck out quite a bit in his career. Borbon, to me, seems to be a guy that will be a real good player if his power comes, and a decent 4th OF if it doesn’t. This year and next are very important for him.

by FirebatM3 on Jun 14, 2008 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also on Borbon

I was someone who thought it might be a good idea to give him a month or so in Low A to get him off to a rolling start. Considering that, the fact that he adjusted almost immediately to HA and has people talking about bumping him to AA (though I tend to think that talk is premature as well) is really good to see.

by Brett Perryman on Jun 14, 2008 5:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i don't know if adam answered this in another thread

but why would borbon not be a september call up?

Rare Gnats Sex

by ab03 on Jun 14, 2008 5:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't think he would be...

...primarily because the Rangers haven’t made a habit of calling up everyone on their 40 man roster at season’s end. Rather, they tend to call up high level guys they want to take a look at, and will give semi-regular time to.

by Adam J. Morris on Jun 14, 2008 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

true

But when have we had this amount of talent to call up?

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jun 14, 2008 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That works against him, not for him

They will still be wanting to get guys like Boggs and Murphy playing time, they might be giving Cruz a look, and Mayberry figures to get one if he keeps hitting. The chance of moving one of those guys or Hamilton (or Bradley if he’s still here) to DH to open up a spot isn’t helped by having Davis and Ramirez (and Botts) around. And ALL of those guys will have spent the majority of the year in AAA at the lowest. Borbon is hurt by all of the guys in front of him, not helped.

by Brett Perryman on Jun 14, 2008 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know

Most of the guys you just mentioned are not on the 40 man roster so to give them a look in September will mean there has to be room. Now if we trade away Guardado, MB, Cat, and Byrd and get rid of Shelton then there would be room for all of them, assuming we don’t acquire anyone who goes on it, but Borbon is already on it and the only thing that would have to be done is a simple call up. Ive argued plenty on this subject but I just think even if its to be a late game pinch runner and defensive replacement you have to do it. You gave the guy a ML contract out of college mainly because you thought he would be ready in that timeframe so when given a chance to look at him I think you gotta take it.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jun 14, 2008 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can see both sides

of the argument.

I would think, based on the rest of his season trending upwards, that having him up may be a good idea. This would help get him acclimated to MLB, and he would most likely learn a few important habits/skills from the other MLB players. Also, it would give him more drive/desire to succeed, and get back up asap.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley

by Rodney on Jun 14, 2008 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here's the thing

The 40 man roster shouldn’t be an issue at that point. You are going to have room to add guys like Taylor Teagarden and John Mayberry Jr., who have to be added. So saying that Borbon should be called up instead of them because of the 40 man situation doesn’t really make sense to me.

Moreover, if you are going to call up Borbon, don’t you also have to call up Matt Harrison, Thomas Diamond, Max Ramirez, Joaquin Arias, Warner Madrigal, along with Teagarden, Mayberry, Jose Vallejo, and whomever else you are going to add this offseason?

by Adam J. Morris on Jun 14, 2008 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But, but

The 40 man roster shouldn’t be an issue at that point.

The 40 is always an issue. The 40 trumps all!!

"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'

I’ll give ya something.

1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"

~ The Immortal, BG

by Chase Irwin on Jun 14, 2008 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+ 1 Billion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A fist bump? A pound? A terrorist fist jab?

by thedirkatron on Jun 14, 2008 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+40!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...and curse Sir Sidney Ponson, he was such a stupid git.

by t ball on Jun 15, 2008 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

Not Vallejo but if all those guys are not playing in the minor league playoffs and are healthy then why not? Harrison can get some valuable experience, Arias can provide another utility aspect, Madrigal can showcase his stuff out of the pen, Teagarden can be a backup. Im not saying these guys have to get consistant playing time. But if we are out of the playoff picture and are looking toward next year why not? To have all those guys up here would mean alot of guys that are here currently would be gone. Guys like MB, Guardado, Shelton, Cat, Byrd, possibly Laird. Im sure you could find a place in the lineup a few times over that couple weeks to a month for these guys to play a little bit.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jun 14, 2008 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also

I don’t think you ever explained how he has 4 options instead of 3. Is that a new rule or something?

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jun 14, 2008 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If they have

less than 5 years of pro ball experience, a 4th option can be used on them. So since Borbon will be at 3+ years by the time his 3rd option is up, he’ll have a 4th option.

by Gdawg on Jun 15, 2008 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

From what I've been told here

they don’t matter because they aren’t key guys for the future and don’t need that taste of baserunning in the majors to continue their development.

by Brett Perryman on Jun 14, 2008 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

who told you that?

I think you are referring to me. I never said that. I am in favor of bringing up any and all young players on the 40 in September. Position players are the easiest because you can put them in a position to use the tools that are best suited at that time. For Borbon you would want him using his speed and defense. You wouldn’t pinch hit him for say Murphy because his bat isn’t ML caliber yet. But his speed and defense is so use it.

Now pitchers are a little different. If they aren’t ready then I would rather leave them be. You can hurt a pitchers confidence by putting them in situations that is impossble for the to succeed at. But of that list that was posted of guys Harrison will be ready to at least taste the bigs by September and Madrigal would seem to be if he stays on the path hes currently on. I wouldn’t advocate adding a guy who wasn’t ready simply because you can. But if you have guys already on it and using an option what does it hurt? Thats the question you still haven’t answered for me yet. What would it hurt to bring up Borbon and let him pinch run or play defense late in games.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jun 15, 2008 12:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm being a little facetious

I was referring to the comment that it was worth the trouble for Borbon to “get acclimated” because he figures to be a part of the lineup in the future, while some others may not be.

by Brett Perryman on Jun 15, 2008 2:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Along with what bigsteve said

He’s already on the 40, his minor league team won’t be playing during that time, why not call him up and give him very little playing time, but let him pinch run and play defense?

by groundingout on Jun 14, 2008 6:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs