milton bradley or josh hamilton

by selppuc on Jun 14, 2008 8:22 PM CDT Comment 58 comments

who has been the better hitter this year? discuss... this is fucking stupid, you can easily have something worthy of conversation that is under 75 words wrong. on the old site you could at least just hit the space bar a couple times and it would count as words. see they have changed that on the new site. blah, blah, blah. yay! only 61 words on my first try, lets try again, blah, blah, blah blah..............

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Hamilton

The guy has been a beast. Not to downgrade what Bradley has done because he would probably be the best on most teams in the league but on this one he is #2

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jun 14, 2008 8:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Nay...

in terms of just hitting so far this year it has been Bradley.

by ghostofErikThompson on Jun 14, 2008 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bradley has been the better all around hitter

he doesnt seem to have slumped at any point, obp sky high is why murphy has so many rbis.

from this point forward id take hamilton though.

Bring up Justin Smoak

by DSheppard on Jun 14, 2008 8:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

easy

Bradley. And, it’s not even close.

Stats don't lie

by Longhorn on Jun 14, 2008 8:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

In terms of EQA...

...Milton Bradley has been the best hitter in baseball this year, and it isn’t really close…

by Adam J. Morris on Jun 14, 2008 8:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

dont you mean in the AL?

chipper? the big puma?

Bring up Justin Smoak

by DSheppard on Jun 14, 2008 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I love the nickname "Big Puma"

by JBImaknee on Jun 15, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

how do you think

it would affect the lineup if you switched Milton and Josh? More productive, less productive, or same…

Please forgive any and all typos, mispellings, etc.
Your kindess in this matter is appreciated.

by red shoe ranger on Jun 14, 2008 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wasn't asked

but I’d say it would be less productive, fwiw.

Milton can protect Josh better than Josh can protect M.O.B.

Now if we had someone who could protect both of them against LHP, ...

"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'

I’ll give ya something.

1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"

~ The Immortal, BG

by Chase Irwin on Jun 14, 2008 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why?

Milton can protect Josh better than Josh can protect M.O.B.

Why?

A fist bump? A pound? A terrorist fist jab?

by thedirkatron on Jun 14, 2008 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Milt

would have around 80 RBI’ s right about now…. Im just guessing on that #. Is there a way to guestimate how many he would have based on their stats?

Please forgive any and all typos, mispellings, etc.
Your kindess in this matter is appreciated.

by red shoe ranger on Jun 14, 2008 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Milton has zero flaws in his game

offensively. Zero.

Switch hitter gives him the ultimate nod. I am not saying that Hamilton is flawed, but he is not perfect.

The problem is, M.O.B. needs to be the one protected. But if you are the best, you cannot be protected, by definition.

Like you said in the other thread about him sustaining an 1.100 pace, that is truly Bonds territory. I ask you: who protects Bonds?

"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'

I’ll give ya something.

1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"

~ The Immortal, BG

by Chase Irwin on Jun 14, 2008 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Huh?

I still don’t understand. I guess my problem is that I’ve never really understood the cult of logic behind “protection”.

I thought the people who believed in protection posit that having a dangerous hitter behind you keeps a pitcher from pitching around you and/or makes them attack with you more fastballs for fear of walking you.

So the way I understood it, you don’t have to be better than the guy in front of you to be protection, you just have to be a dangerous hitter.

You seem to be implying otherwise.

A fist bump? A pound? A terrorist fist jab?

by thedirkatron on Jun 14, 2008 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You can bring in a lefty to face Josh Hamilton

and significantly improve your damage control.

It doesn’t matter who you bring in against Milton Bradley: you are screwed either way.

"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'

I’ll give ya something.

1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"

~ The Immortal, BG

by Chase Irwin on Jun 14, 2008 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I understand this

But how does the mean that Milton can protect Josh better than Josh can protect M.O.B.?

A fist bump? A pound? A terrorist fist jab?

by thedirkatron on Jun 14, 2008 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Difference in runs created

That is my basic assertion.

Avoiding Milton saves you about 115 OPS points.

If you, the opposing team, have to face Josh with Milton on 1B, you are better off than facing Milton with Josh on 1B. You can’t protect the best protector: so you try to extract the most value out of the situation. Vs. RHP, I think having Milton batting 4th is fine because Murphy can protect Bradley “enough” in terms of being a dangerous hitter, as you say.

However, against LHP, I think batting Bradley 3rd and Hammy 4th might improve the productivity of the lineup. It’s a moot hypothetical—since the 5th place hitter is drastically worse vs. LHP.

I feel like I’m talking in circles, but it’s hard to articulate this thought.

"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'

I’ll give ya something.

1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"

~ The Immortal, BG

by Chase Irwin on Jun 14, 2008 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The question becomes

would you rather have Milton on 1B and Josh batting? Or would you rather have Josh on 1B and Milton batting?

The answer seems clear, to me, regardless of the situation. Am I making any sense?

"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'

I’ll give ya something.

1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"

~ The Immortal, BG

by Chase Irwin on Jun 14, 2008 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think...

What Chase is saying is that if you are the best hitter on the team (and even more so if you’re the best hitter in baseball) then the next hitter can’t be “protection” since statistically the pitcher has a better chance at getting the next guy out. Even if he’s a good or great hitter, why go after the best guy when you can go after a guy not as good?

I do believe in protection by the way. Not that it makes a huge difference but that it makes some difference.

by bdavison94 on Jun 14, 2008 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"I do believe in protection by the way "...

How do you feel about premarital happy-happy funtime?

Please forgive any and all typos, mispellings, etc.
Your kindess in this matter is appreciated.

by red shoe ranger on Jun 14, 2008 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Had plenty of that...

and, other than my daughter, I support it 100%

by bdavison94 on Jun 14, 2008 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Thanks for stating that in a different way.

"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'

I’ll give ya something.

1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"

~ The Immortal, BG

by Chase Irwin on Jun 14, 2008 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the real question

to me seems to be with which order would you score more runs???

and that would seem to imply being better off with Milt hitting 3rd….

Curiosly, since wev’e invoked the name of Bonds regarding Milt’s #’s this year….didnt he hit 3rd?

Please forgive any and all typos, mispellings, etc.
Your kindess in this matter is appreciated.

by red shoe ranger on Jun 14, 2008 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think you could argue that Milt should hit 3rd

but if Hamilton was behind him, then you may see Hamilton’s production slide.

Hamilton has been batting with the best hitter as protection. But, some program can probably simulate this, you may end up scoring more runs if you make “Milton’s protection” a priority. I would be interested in seeing the results of that.

The difference would seem to be negligible, but possibly significant over 162 games.

"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'

I’ll give ya something.

1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"

~ The Immortal, BG

by Chase Irwin on Jun 14, 2008 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Plus if you hit...

Board Game third then you could have three lefties in a row when Hank is back in Hamilton, Blalock, and Murphy after him. You have to break up the lefties somehow and Milton is the only guy from the right side that can do that in the middle of the order.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Jun 14, 2008 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

At least

most pitchers are RHP ;)

"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'

I’ll give ya something.

1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"

~ The Immortal, BG

by Chase Irwin on Jun 14, 2008 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

curious

the conclusion seems to be that Milt is our best hitter and I thought that person should bat 3rd?

Im no expert(clearly).........I hope others chime in. I think most will agree with you regrding the protection issue because they love Josh and would hate to have him hitting with no protection….

Please forgive any and all typos, mispellings, etc.
Your kindess in this matter is appreciated.

by red shoe ranger on Jun 14, 2008 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The best hitter should bat third.

In general, at least. Without thinking too hard about it or breaking down the uniqueness of the Rangers situation, MIlt makes sense at third.

You do put a couple lefties back to back then if you keep Murph at 5th, of course.

by philkid3 on Jun 14, 2008 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

you shouldn’t ever try to fix something like this. its working pretty well – leave it be.

but otherwise, you are probably right. bradley 3rd would probably be better

Rare Gnats Sex

by ab03 on Jun 14, 2008 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree here

don’t fix what ain’t broken. You never know whether Josh will handle cleanup as well as Milton does. Milton is also very much willing to take the walks when pitchers pitch around him – it isn’t obvious Josh would be so willing (maybe to his detriment)

by JBImaknee on Jun 15, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure why you'd want to protect Miton from lefties...

His .821 slugging against LHP is just stupid. And 8 HR in 67 ABs ain’t bad either.

If anything, Milton’s benefitted from managers bringing in LHP against Hamilton and leaving them in the game a batter too long.

by MeanMr.Mustard on Jun 16, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

BP talked about this the other day.

They think Hamilton would possibly have a dramatic upswing in RsBI.

by philkid3 on Jun 14, 2008 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

thank you

i’m having this arguement with this guy on another board. hamilton is having a great year, but his only stat that is astronomical is rbi’s, and most people know rbi’s aren’t a very important stat. bradley should be al mvp right now. hell you could make the case the rangers have the top 2 mvps with josh being second.

by selppuc on Jun 14, 2008 8:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Overall player: Hamilton

Hitter: M.O.B.

Neither is close.

"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'

I’ll give ya something.

1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"

~ The Immortal, BG

by Chase Irwin on Jun 14, 2008 8:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Bradley

no, Hamilton
no Hamilton

Hamilton wins …........... 2 to 1

Isn’t wonderful that we have both?

That is not me in the photo, so relax.

by rldwb on Jun 14, 2008 8:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Screw this...

you can’t make me choose. I pick both.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Jun 14, 2008 8:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

By pretty much any measure, it's Board Game.

So that is who I’ll go with.

Decided to look up wOBA this season (a stat I should look in to more often, but finding it sortable is difficult). Bradley lead’s the AL with a .422. Beasticon is fourth with a .399 (only 11 points back of first).

by philkid3 on Jun 14, 2008 8:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Typo

Hamilton is 11 back of second.

That was before tonight’s games (which obviously has no affect on those two).

by philkid3 on Jun 14, 2008 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Does it really matter?? I’ll take both any day.

"I'll take Clemens over Millwood and Padilla anyday.." - bosoxsiempregirl

^^^^ Wow, I would too. I guess that makes me the next John Schuerholtz.

LSB Facebook group ----->> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288

by hinduplaya on Jun 14, 2008 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bradley...

He has brought energy and enthusiasm to this team.

This team has been a boring bland team for the past 10 years.

Milton changed that, And I love him.

"No bear or disco for Juan" - Mr. Santos

by miles on Jun 14, 2008 8:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Instead of...

“this is fucking stupid, you can easily have something worthy of conversation that is under 75 words wrong. on the old site you could at least just hit the space bar a couple times and it would count as words. see they have changed that on the new site. blah, blah, blah. yay! only 61 words on my first try, lets try again, blah, blah, blah blah…...........”

You could have spent another 66 words telling us what your opinion of your question was.

by ghostofErikThompson on Jun 14, 2008 9:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

it still would have been well short

but bradley. statistically he has been the better hitter and its not even much of an arguement.

by selppuc on Jun 14, 2008 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then why make a diary about it?

"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'

I’ll give ya something.

1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"

~ The Immortal, BG

by Chase Irwin on Jun 14, 2008 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

To see if someone actually thought otherwise?

Sometimes that stuff can be funny.

I dunno, just a guess.

by philkid3 on Jun 14, 2008 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It was a serious question

I hadn’t ruled out a plausible answer. Just seems a little redundant, imo.

"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'

I’ll give ya something.

1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"

~ The Immortal, BG

by Chase Irwin on Jun 14, 2008 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

And what a surprise. I don’t think anyone disliked the signing of Bradley, but I can’t imagine anyone thinking Bradley would be the AL’s best hitter in the middle of June. He’s been a great story.

Maybe a promotion to Beasticon is in order.

by ghostofErikThompson on Jun 14, 2008 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or giving us the batting lines of Hamilton and Board Game...

A Lonestar in California

by lonestarJon on Jun 14, 2008 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can you imagine if Milton keeps this pace up?

Then JD can pick up the phone and say

“Hey hows the playoff push coming? How about adding the AL MVP to your lineup, would that help? Oh your top 3 prospects? Sure dont mind if I do”

its the key to the season people. live it, love it, learn it.

by SaltyGoesYard on Jun 14, 2008 9:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I love it!

by philkid3 on Jun 14, 2008 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Decided to put together a nice little list.

What with the rain delay and all and golf not being the most involving sport. AL ranks in parenthesis. Some of these, obviously, are total offensive measures.

First, rate stats (Hamilton 309 PA, Bradley 264 PA)

OBP
Bradley: .455 (1st)
Hamilton: .362 (19th)

SLG
Bradley: .623 (1st)
Hamilton: .599 (2nd)

OPS+
Bradley: 191 (1st)
Hamilton: 157 (2nd)

GPA
Bradley: .343 (1st)
Hamilton: .298 (13th)

OWP
Bradley: .837 (1st)
Hamilton: .737 (3rd)

wOBA
Bradley: .422 (1st)
Hamilton: .399 (4th)

EqA
Bradley: .360 (1st)
Hamilton: .321 (5th)

And counting stats. . .

Runs Created
Hamilton: 54 (2nd)
Bradley: 51 (4th)

Batting Wins
Bradley: 2.1 (1st)
Hamilton: 2.1 (2nd)

VORP
Bradley: 36.5 (1st)
Hamilton: 31.6 (2nd)

Bradley’s putting quite a bit of distance between himself and Hamilton, mostly due to his ability to avoid outs at a superior rate.

by philkid3 on Jun 14, 2008 9:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

They can't keep him off the bases, period.

It’s really that simple. He’s unstoppable—health is his kryptonite.

"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'

I’ll give ya something.

1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"

~ The Immortal, BG

by Chase Irwin on Jun 14, 2008 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

so is Josh's

Stats don't lie

by Longhorn on Jun 14, 2008 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

After my post

I realized that my statements applied equally to both, heh.

Although, I do think that Josh will be more unstoppable for a much longer time, in more ways.

"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'

I’ll give ya something.

1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"

~ The Immortal, BG

by Chase Irwin on Jun 14, 2008 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chris Davis

"I am a Doug Mathis believer." -dstar442005 on 6-9-08

by dstar442005 on Jun 14, 2008 9:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

bradley has been the better hitter

hamilton has more home runs. but not that much more.

bradley just has fewer rbi’s, but like he’s been quoted before hamilton drives everybody in so he can’t do it.

hamilton is a better long term guy i would think though.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Jun 14, 2008 10:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Bradley

switch them in the lineup and Bradley has the crazy RBI total.

by kumizi on Jun 14, 2008 10:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

well

Josh would be hitting behind a guy with an OBP closer to .500 than .400. I think Josh’s RBI totally would be pretty good, too.

"You’re the only here who contributes schtick only." - brettgardner

by trza on Jun 15, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Protection

Wow this discussion heated up in the last few hours. To chime in on the protection issue. Milton Bradley is by far the more patient hitter. Hammy is still a little too aggressive. If you switched the two in the lineup it would make a huge difference. With Josh batting behind MB, MB would get more pitches to hit. He wouldn’t be able to be as selective. That is partially why he has had so much success this year. he has been able to lock in on pitches at times because he has been ahead in counts so often. The reason he has been like that is the majority of the time he doesn’t have guys on in front of him because if they were on Hammy already scored them or cleared the bases with a HR. And with Murphy batting behind him pitchers have been more careful. Thus when he has gotten ahead in counts he can look for that pitch in a certain spot and he knows what to do with it when he gets it. Thats not to take away anything he has done so far. Its just easier to hit when you are only looking one spot and won’t swing unless the pitch is where you are looking for it.

Now if you switched the two pitchers would have to challenge Bradey more often. He would probably have more RBIs than he does but I think not only would his average go down but also his OBP. I think that would go down dramatically. Teams would pitch him harder because Hammy is waiting on deck.

The way we have it set up right now is more than fine. The two complement each other perfectly in the lineup. The reason I say Hammy is the better hitter is because I think Bradley benefits more from hitting behind Hammy and if you switched the two Bradleys numbers would have the more dramatic change.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jun 15, 2008 12:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

If you batted Josh 4th

behind Bradley, then Josh’s overall numbers would go down significantly over 162 games, imo. Bradley’s numbers, would somehow, manage to increase I suppose … considering that J32 is much better protection than Murph.

But the question is, how many additional runs would be created? Milton’s numbers can only go so much higher, but Josh’s numbers could get a lot lower without the best hitter in the league threatening behind him.

With Bradley behind him, they have to pitch to Josh. They can’t pitch around Josh, bring in some lefty, and expect to get out of the inning.

If Bradley is on base, they can still pitch around Josh if the 5th place hitter is a black hole vs. LHP.

"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'

I’ll give ya something.

1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"

~ The Immortal, BG

by Chase Irwin on Jun 15, 2008 4:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs