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Buyers or Sellers?

Tiny by peachygbc_1 on

We are about 43 days away from the trade deadline.  Will the Rangers be buyers or sellers?  Some questions for debate.

1. Buyers or Sellers?

2. Who gets traded?

3. Who should we look to trade for?  (if buyers who? if sellers what prospects or future pieces?)

Just a thought after reading Jamey Newberg's post this morning that we could be buyers.  I have always just assumed we would be sellers.  Let's discuss!!

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seems like you should add a poll....

1. sellers
2. MB, Laird, Byrd, Eddie, maybe Padilla (though I’d prefer not)
3. Who knows. Maybe we can get one of Tampa Bay’s or Florida’s young studs for a couple of those guys. I think Boston makes sense too. Cheer for tight races…

by JBImaknee on Jun 18, 2008 9:31 AM CDT   0 recs

...i don't know that i want to let go of Gerry anymore.

...that guy’s done a complete 180 since the Boston series.

by oc on Jun 18, 2008 10:22 AM CDT to parent up   1 recs

+1

Laird for President

by rldwb on Jun 18, 2008 11:03 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Unless

they go on a real tear and get within a game or two of first place they are sellers. It makes no sense to give up half the farm to get a Sabathia, Harang, Sheets, etc. The team can stick to the plan, sign CC or Sheets this offseason, perhaps trade for a younger starter then if the price is right.

Patience, folks. One step at a time. Sell Salty or Bradley if they will get you top or mid-rotation pitching under team control. Sell Laird for a lesser piece if not.

...and curse Sir Sidney Ponson, he was such a stupid git.

by t ball on Jun 18, 2008 9:33 AM CDT   0 recs

I think they will do neither

Sit on their hands and wait for things to unfold.
But they probably should sell.

Hard Drive Manufacturer Hires Barkley

by BudLight on Jun 18, 2008 9:36 AM CDT   0 recs

Sellers

But not fire sale sellers. Smart sellers. Take Bradley for instance. Don’t trade him just for the sake of trading him. Unless ateam absolutely blows us away i would be more than happy keeping him and taking the draft picks if he leaves.

Same with Laird. I know this will rile people up but i think we may have found a great niche here with laird and Salty. Laird is having an unbelievable season and his history suggests he does best in a platoon situation. I am all for Salty being our catcher of the future but if this arrangement is working and we are winning i can handle putting off handing the throne to Salty another year. Laird is under our control for another year I believe so unless a team overpays I think you keep him and utilize this platoon the best you can.

And again, same with Millwood and Padilla. Both these guys are having good years and unless a team wants to overpay I want to keep them and let them help us win next year.

Now Cat, Byrd, Shelton, Guardado, and even Wright couls and probably should be moved at the deadline.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jun 18, 2008 9:40 AM CDT   0 recs

Anybody

Who thinks we should be buyers should be slapped in the taint.

Trade Bradley, Laird, Eddie, Cat

All pitching, 3 starters and 6 relievers.

by SaltyGoesYard on Jun 18, 2008 9:42 AM CDT   0 recs

Putting on my armor

I’m a buyer. For an eighth-inning arm.

by Jamey Newberg on Jun 18, 2008 10:11 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

we've got...

...plenty of 8th inning arms… trouble is they’re all attached to heads that are errantly placed in an irregular orrifice…

To be fair... You are a fan of School of Rock so your ability to judge anything is VASTLY overrated!!!!
~King Billy Royal, Minor League Ball

by ivysafety39 on Jun 18, 2008 10:21 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I have more faith in Every Buffet Eddie as an 8th inning guy

than I do in BGL as a closer.

He needs to be converted back into a starter, like, yesterday.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jun 18, 2008 10:24 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Eddie

Having Eddie and J.Wright as your 6th/7th inning guys would be ideal.

by Jamey Newberg on Jun 18, 2008 10:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ok...

how many GB do they need to be? Who would you target? Who would you be willing to part with?

There is no such thing as global warming. David Murphy was cold, so he turned the sun up.

by SarasotaRanger on Jun 18, 2008 10:25 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Too soon to say

I mentioned some of the targets in my report today, though.

by Jamey Newberg on Jun 18, 2008 10:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Jamey,

It is fine if we want to explore some trades for an 8th inning arm. no one will argue that we don’t need help late in games. I think we can walk the fine line of being a buyer and a seller at the same time. in my opinion, this team has two pieces who present much more value to this club as trade options than they do as long term options on the field, Bradley and Salty. can we turn Salty into a pitching prospect like the Red Sox’ Michael Bowden? Can we turn Bradley into a package like Jeremy Hellickson and Desmond Jennings? We have a glut of C/OF/DH types in the minors who can step in and replace those guys very soon, and this team will not be in serious contention until our pitching staff is much more settled.

by clark on Jun 18, 2008 10:28 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes and no.

Fine with me on Salty. But not on Milt.

by Jamey Newberg on Jun 18, 2008 10:30 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

not enough?

To be fair... You are a fan of School of Rock so your ability to judge anything is VASTLY overrated!!!!
~King Billy Royal, Minor League Ball

by ivysafety39 on Jun 18, 2008 10:33 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

is that...

...not enough for MB or you don’t want to deal him?

To be fair... You are a fan of School of Rock so your ability to judge anything is VASTLY overrated!!!!
~King Billy Royal, Minor League Ball

by ivysafety39 on Jun 18, 2008 10:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not enough

Unless I am totally overwhelmed (something closer to the Teixeira package than the Gagné package—that is, something indisputably more valuable than two #1’s), I don’t move Milt. He is critical not only to this offense but, in my opinion, to the mindset of this team and the impact he can have on young players who are here (or who are nearly here) in terms of how this game is supposed to be played.

It’s not like Milt is 34 years old.

by Jamey Newberg on Jun 18, 2008 10:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Using Tampa's farm

for the sake of conversation, who would they need to offer for you to feel we received enough? Because he is a two or three month rental and is limited defensively, you know he will not bring in a package like Teixeira. So what would it take?

by clark on Jun 18, 2008 10:40 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It would take...

...something that TB would be stupid to give up.

by Jamey Newberg on Jun 18, 2008 10:41 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

this is exactly one of the reasons he should be extended...

i don’t know that there’s a bigger leader in that clubhouse right now…

he’s come a long way since 2004.

by oc on Jun 18, 2008 10:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

do we know

if the rangers have approached him about an extension? do we have any idea what it would take?

by clark on Jun 18, 2008 10:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

why would he take that

when he is having such an amazing year?

by clark on Jun 18, 2008 10:52 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

key words: "right now"

... he’s had an amazing two and a half months… there’s still a lot of baseball to be played…

but as of this moment, i don’t see the Rangers giving him any more than two years.

and if you want a BS answer for why he would extend for just two more years… it’s because he loves playing with Wash… he loves the rapport he’s built with his teammates… and he knows that this team is not far away from making a serious push.

by oc on Jun 18, 2008 11:01 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't think Bradley is your typical player

He’s been bouncing around the league for years now because he can’t find a place that he is comfortable. Cleveland, Montreal, LA, SD, Oakland… all different cities, different personalities, different players… none of them worked for him.

Now he finds a team with a clubhouse that he feels both appreciates him and he trusts. That is no small deal to a guy with his past. I wouldn’t be surprised if he went out of his way to stay in Texas…

by JBImaknee on Jun 18, 2008 11:01 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

that is very idealistic

but i would be happy if it was true.

by clark on Jun 18, 2008 11:15 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Bradley's leadership

has lead to a .500 record and one of the worst ERAs in baseball. What this team needs is a decent rotation, trade Milty for someone that could be a part of a good rotation 2009-2015 – rather than hold onto a hot hitter for the rest of the season, then have to overpay him to keep his leadership around.

Pedro: "I wasn't cockfighting, I just have a wide stance."

by tricer on Jun 18, 2008 10:47 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

overpay?

...please…

by oc on Jun 18, 2008 10:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

yes, overpay

To land a FA on the open market, you always have to overpay.

And if you are fine w/ overpaying, why not trade him now for some pitching prospects, then overpay after the season?

The only difference is that we can have Milt’s production for the next 3 months on a third place team, or we can probably get a couple of good pitching prospects instead. Either way, if you want MB beyond this year – it is going to cost plenty.

Pedro: "I wasn't cockfighting, I just have a wide stance."

by tricer on Jun 18, 2008 10:53 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

you mean, if another team doesn't "overpay" first?

...and i’ve stressed this time and time again… i honestly don’t believe a team is going to give up talented young arms for a couple of months with Bradley…

i mean, it’s possible… but, not very likely right now… especially given his gingerness.

now, lemme ask you… if two years is the maximum the Rangers are willing to extend him… what is your guestimation on the millions he gets?

by oc on Jun 18, 2008 10:57 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Bradley has no reason to accept 2 years

Someone will give him 4-5 years this offseason.

I think he will get a contract similar to what Boston gave JD Drew.

And if the Rangers were to offer him a 2 year extension right now, he probably wouldn’t even be tempted.

Pedro: "I wasn't cockfighting, I just have a wide stance."

by tricer on Jun 18, 2008 11:04 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

keep in mind...

there’s still a lot of baseball to be played my friend…

he’s playing way over his head right now… but that’s just right now.

by oc on Jun 18, 2008 11:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

So trade him

He isn’t likely to play this well all season, and even if he continues to be the AL’s best hitter – this team is still not better than .500.

The only reason to keep him is for the clubhouse leadership stuff that is being parroted around here, and I don’t put a lot of stock in that. I’d try to build a team that has enough talent to compete (this one doesn’t) and worry about leadership issues when the available talent could reasonably be expected to make the postseason.

IOW, leadership on a 3rd place team with the worst starting rotation in the majors is pretty worthless to me.

Pedro: "I wasn't cockfighting, I just have a wide stance."

by tricer on Jun 18, 2008 11:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V

i’ve stressed this time and time again… i honestly don’t believe a team is going to give up talented young arms for a couple of months with Bradley…

you don’t trade him for anything else.

by oc on Jun 18, 2008 11:25 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And your point?

We wouldn’t be at .500 without Milt. People are so trained around here to say pitching pitching pitching that they don’t realize that you still have to hit. Bradley is a huge part of this team and possibly the future whether he throws the ball to the catcher or not.

And there’s no way we have to overpay to keep him unless you consider market value overpaying because that’s probably the best he could hope for.

by slimshadty12 on Jun 21, 2008 5:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You're right...

you get to .500 by being the best offensive team in the league. Hitting is a big part of the game.

However if you want to be better than .500, push for a playoff spot, win a pennant, and win a WS then you have to have “pitching pitching pitching”.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Jun 21, 2008 10:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Except you can't have both being just single minded....

Your hitting will go south if you neglect it and then that WS pitching staff has no support.

So point is and as JD showed in his philosophy by drafting Smoak, you worry about positions later whether in the field or the mound.

by slimshadty12 on Jun 25, 2008 1:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Everybody

not just Jamey, you have to remember this is a guy who tore his ACL arguing with an ump, hurt his shoulder swinging in the batters box, and recently hurt his quad on a routine single. I love Milton Bradley the player, I even respect the person but he is WAY to injury prone to give the kind of money you are going to have to give him. If I remember correctly Guillen just got 3 years $35mil. and thats way too much for a guy that has a hard time staying healthy as a DH.

by blueballlefty on Jun 18, 2008 2:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

hasn't gone on the DL yet...

...i don’t mind him missing a game here or there if he can stay off the DL.

by oc on Jun 18, 2008 4:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I love what Milt has brought to this team

The passion, the leadership, the approach at the plate, etc. But if he continues to play like he has, he is going to leave us after this season. I hate to throw out the comparison, but this is a lot like the GMJ scenario of a two years ago. He is having a career year, and he will get paid well for it. We all know he has loads of talent, but this is not a sustainable level of play for him.

This team, right now, is pretty good. They have a farm system that could allow them to be very good in the future. But we have pieces in Bradley and Salty that, if leveraged properly, could allow us to be great and rival the Rays in terms of talent for years to come.

by clark on Jun 18, 2008 10:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

true dat.

To be fair... You are a fan of School of Rock so your ability to judge anything is VASTLY overrated!!!!
~King Billy Royal, Minor League Ball

by ivysafety39 on Jun 18, 2008 10:41 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Certainly not

in terms of baseball ability, but it is in the sense that they both played/are playing well above their career numbers. If we try to sign him to an extension and he goes back to his career norms, we will be paying quite a premium for his intangibles.

by clark on Jun 18, 2008 10:45 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Disagree.

GMJ fluked his production. He was a career NRI who figured some things out, at an advanced age, under Rudy. Plus defender, fluky hitter.

MB has basically found health. No, he hasn’t produced MVP numbers before, but he was always supposed to be a guy who would level huge damage at the plate and play good defense. They are not similar players at all, and MB’08 is not at all like GMJ’06.

I won’t get into the off-the-field stuff, because there’s no question which guy I’d rather have from that standpoint.

by Jamey Newberg on Jun 18, 2008 10:49 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

but health

has to be taken into account. as i said above, there is little doubt MB has more baseball ability than GMJ. but his career norms indicate that he is a very good player who is not always healthy, and so far this year he is a great player who has remained in good health. the odds of him sustaining both his health and anything near this level of play are not good.

by clark on Jun 18, 2008 10:51 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hmm.

You have to assume health, yes. Playing in the AL helps in that regard.

But as for “sustaining anything near this level of play,” two questions:

1. GMJ settling back to his norm vs. MS settling back to his norm—not even close to equivalent.

2. You think MB is going to command the same type of contract (especially length) that GMJ did? No way.

by Jamey Newberg on Jun 18, 2008 10:53 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If he finishes the year

in good health, and with numbers near where they are right now, some team (almost certainly in the AL) will offer a deal much longer and more lucrative than expected with the plan to DH him regularly to help with the health issue.

by clark on Jun 18, 2008 10:58 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

pffftttt... no they won't.

i think any AL executive would be crazy to talk three or more years right now… after just two and half months of baseball.

by oc on Jun 18, 2008 11:06 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

look at JD Drew's contract

Pedro: "I wasn't cockfighting, I just have a wide stance."

by tricer on Jun 18, 2008 11:18 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

look at Mike Lowell's contract... look at Julio Lugo's...

...teams can afford to do that when they have pitching depth…

why else do you think we have one of the lower payrolls in baseball?

by oc on Jun 18, 2008 11:35 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Apples and oranges

Yah, JD Drew had an injury history, but he didn’t have Milt’s history of going insane.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jun 18, 2008 12:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

age

isn’t Drew also younger than MB is

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jun 18, 2008 12:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No

Milton is 2 1/2 years younger than Drew

Baseball Time in Arlington

by jparks77 on Jun 18, 2008 12:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ok thanks

i didn’t know and was too lazy to look it up myself

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jun 18, 2008 1:03 PM CDT to parent up   1 recs

both have injury history

both are similar type hitters. Bradley goes crazy occasionally and Drew is such a puss that he requires a stay on the DL for a hangnail.

You may think they are apples and oranges, but I think they are 2 players with very similar attributes, and similar values.

Pedro: "I wasn't cockfighting, I just have a wide stance."

by tricer on Jun 18, 2008 2:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Under control

I am fine with moving with moving Bradley of Salty if we get a stud under our control for several years. Bullpen or starter is fine with me. Bowden would be a good name, but I would check with Tampa Bay first, they have several top pitching prospects that could help with either.

by peachygbc_1 on Jun 18, 2008 10:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Great thread, by the way.

I’m pumped now to fire off my next report about this subject.

by Jamey Newberg on Jun 18, 2008 10:45 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Podcast

Jamey, not to be picky, but hopefully, this could be a podcast topic for you and Adam. Don’t get me wrong I read every report, but the podcast get me through those 30 minutes on the treadmill!!

by peachygbc_1 on Jun 18, 2008 12:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think if you are a buyer

you have to buy more than just a solid setup guy.

If you are going to make a run, you ahve to make a run. The Angels are looking crisp this year, so it is going to take almost .600 ball the rest of the way to catch them. That is hard to do when the back three of your rotation is Gabbard, Hurley, and Feldman. You need 3 guys back there that this team has a 50% chance of winning with, and I don’t see it in those guys.

At the same time, I don’t think that adding a Sheets or Sabathia is worth the cost, not unless you are ready to extend them at the time…

You need the following to contend – a big name pitcher (#1 or #2 with Millwood), a good starter (#3 or #4 with Padilla), and a bullpen arm. You have to do this without hurting the lineup much. Something like this:

Big package for Sheets or Sabathia – something like Andrus, Hurley, Poveda would be required to get it done.
Package for a mid-starter and a reliever- say Salty + a B prospect for Ian Snell or Zach Duke and one of their relievers like Marte

If you do all of this, you MAY be able to work your way up to the Angels this year. And if you can extend the #1 guy, you won’t have seriously hurt our chances long term. But that is a big risk…

by JBImaknee on Jun 18, 2008 10:52 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

actually

Looking at that, it’ll take more than Andrus, hurley, and poveda to bring in CC or Sheets. You’d probably have to put Davis, MaxRam, or Beltre in there as well…

by JBImaknee on Jun 18, 2008 10:53 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No thanks

That’d be way too much.

There is no such thing as global warming. David Murphy was cold, so he turned the sun up.

by SarasotaRanger on Jun 18, 2008 12:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Snell=Bad

Something is wrong with that guy this year. Most of the Pittsburgh starters seem to be one year wonders and then fade tremendously.

Also could someone explain why Bradley couldn’t get a contract like GMJs if he continues to hit this way? I understand hes crazy and injury prone but hes two years younger and having a prolific season. Just wondering why its automatically assumed know one will pay him.

This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC

by nikpin on Jun 18, 2008 10:59 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree about Snell

I’m not saying I would do that deal, I’m just saying that is the type of thing you’d have to do to compete. Besides, while Snell isn’t who he was a year ago, Salty’s value isn’t what it was a year ago, I fear.

by JBImaknee on Jun 18, 2008 11:03 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Salty

I don’t think his values quite as high but its not reduced as significantly as Snells value has been. After bursting on to the scene look at how Zach Duke, Ian Snell, and Tom Gorzelanny have regressed. I wonder if anyone has looked at this extensively.

This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC

by nikpin on Jun 18, 2008 11:45 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think that's more just what young pitchers tend to do

than anything on the Pirates specifically.

Look at Hughes, Kennedy and Buccholz. (Sorry about only picking NYY’s and Bostonites, but they’re the ones who popped to mind.) All three of those guys regressed this year after bursting onto the scene. It seems to me like most young pitchers who burst onto the scene with an initial success phase follow it with an “oh shit the league has caught up to me and my tricks” phase.

The guys who don’t go through a phase like that (like Timmy Lincecum) are few and far between.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jun 18, 2008 12:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

those three

Are all also in the hype machine that is NE media. All Yankee and Red Sox prospects get overhyped and overglorified

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jun 18, 2008 1:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hmmm...

Mayyyyybe. Kennedy I thought was overhyped based off his (imo fluky) performance last year, but Hughes was almost universally regarded as a super stud pitching prospect. And Buccholz was very, very good himself. His stuff is electric, hype machine or no.

But that’s not really the point I was trying to make.

We’re not talking about their results this year versus their perceived value as prospects, we’re talking about their performance this year versus their performance last year when they first came up.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jun 18, 2008 1:41 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't know why...

An eighth inning arm? Given how erratic non-closer relief performance is from year-to-year, I don’t see why we should be buying that commodity.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Jun 19, 2008 12:38 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yep

and we should consider a package deal and include Salty if we can get a high end SP prosepct.

by Agreen07 on Jun 18, 2008 2:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

We sell

Cat, Laird and Blalock are the guys we should be looking to move, and depending upon the deal, Millwood, Padilla and Bradley are all guys whom we should try to really cash in with. I would also consider parting with a releiver like Guardado if a deal needs any sweetening.

Obviously we should be looking primarily for pitching, and pitching of the starting variety – although a good releiver wouldn’t hurt right now either. I would like to see us accquire a good third base prospect if we can though, somebody like Chase Headley or Andy LaRoche.

A Lonestar in California

by lonestarJon on Jun 18, 2008 9:46 AM CDT   0 recs

LaRoche

I would not mind getting someone like LaRoche back. What do the Dodgers need? They have also been rumored to be willing to trade Matt Kemp as well. Could Millwood or Padilla land one of those guys? Kemp strikes out a ton, but he is very young with lots of tools.

by peachygbc_1 on Jun 18, 2008 10:23 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs