Max Ramirez, Texas League player of the month

by Adam J. Morris on Jun 2, 2008 10:22 AM CDT Comment 49 comments

Richard Durrett reports that Max Ramirez has been named Texas League player of the month for May.

He also asks if it is time to promote Ramirez, who isn't exactly young for AA, and who is dominating the league. The problem, of course, is that Taylor Teagarden is already at AAA, and if you want Ramirez and Teagarden both catching regularly (and one would assume that you do), you have to keep them at different levels.

This is, of course, the downside to the accumulating catchers plan the organization has implemented...unlike, say, outfielders, who you can sprinkle among three different positions, or even infielders, who you have some flexibility with, you only play one catcher at a time, which limits how many of them you can really utilize.

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Time to trade one of them...

by Agreen07 on Jun 2, 2008 10:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

No,

This will work itself out soon enough. Laird or Salty will be gone in a month or so.

...and curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid git.

by t ball on Jun 2, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trade

The way all of our catching prospects are playing at the moment, I think you might be right. Our prospect issue at the moment appears to be that we have a ton of depth but not a lot of top-tier talent. That’s a great problem to have given the flame-out rate of prospects, but th 40 man roster is going to make it impossible to keep and evaluate all of these prospects. I propose that we package a our depth to acquire some true top-tier talent.

My first proposal would be to talk to Sabean about Lincecum. The Giants are abyssmal across the board. A superstar pitcher just isn’t worth as much to them as a handful of young players to restock their team/farm system. I think you could get Lincecum for a little more than what we were given for Teixeira. We would finally have our young ace (with a very good chance of remaining healthy, given his mechanics), wouldn’t set back our rebuilding effort, and would still have a gaggle of prospects. I would try to hold onto Andrus, Ramirez, and Davis, but I’m sure we could build an offer around Salty, Hurley, Duran/Boggs/Murphy, and a young pitcher or two.

--Brian

by BCanfield on Jun 2, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Given their awful offense

I imagine they would be require two of the following : Davis, Ramirez, Salty.

by Agreen07 on Jun 2, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

a little more than what we were given for Tex?

Tex was only going to be in Atlanta for 1.5 years. Lincecum is under team control for years.

I think it would take substantially more than that to get Lincecum. I’m sure SF would ask for Josh Hamilton as part of any deal.

You said it yourself about the flame-out rate of prospects, and since Lincecum isn’t a prospect anymore, I think they would demand some ML talent (not AAA potential).

I think it would cost Texas Kinsler, Salty, Andrus, and Hurley.

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Jun 2, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

totally agree. Lincecum might be one of the two or three most valuable players in Baseball (in terms of trade value). A young pitcher who’s pitching like a complete Ace and is under control for 6 more years. I like the idea of packaging our young players for a top tier pitcher, but I think the target should be Greinke (less prospects required, more realistic).

by aggiecurt05 on Jun 2, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You don't

pay that price for anyone.

Not the only black poster on LSB.

by sprite on Jun 2, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How about we trade Salty

for John Danks!

by Agreen07 on Jun 2, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is no way in hell

the Giants trade Lincecum. Come on.

by Brett Perryman on Jun 2, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There were rumors

that he was for sale over the winter. There is no way a good team trades him, but a team that is as bad at almost every position as the Giants and is bereft of minor league talent should look to trade a star like Lincecum for a bunch of good/very good players/prospects. I would hope that the Giants have learned that you can’t have one superstar and a bunch of scrubs and hope to be competitive.

--Brian

by BCanfield on Jun 2, 2008 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not a chance they deal him

He’s young, and so is Cain. Those are the guys you try and trade FOR, then build from there.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Jun 2, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lincecum

I seem to remember hearing that his delivery and/or mechanics were pretty bad and would lead to him getting injured on in the bullpen in the future. Obviously that has been at least somewhat corrected but I remember it being a big concern on draft day.

White Women!

by nikpin on Jun 2, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lincecum

some people said he was an injury waiting to happen and some said that his mechanics would keep him from being injured. If you look at his mechanics, they are pretty unique which may be why no one is real sure if they are mechanically sound or not. I believe that I read he had never had any injuries, so he must be doing something right.

Of course, I don’t care what people say about mechanics. Mark Prior had the best mechanics of all-time and was going to be injury free and win 300 games. At least that was the reports we got. Now he is having season ending surgery again for the second year in a row. Obviously there was something wrong with his mechanics since it has been one injury after another.

by uthornfan on Jun 2, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't that what Buck Baby said about Chris Young.

Passion sucks

by RingoRanger on Jun 2, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Max

His bat has obviously developed faster than his defense at catcher so why not scrap the project and allow his bat to determine his promotion schedule? He has already been playing some 1B and with TayTea, Salty and Laird ahead of him on the depth chart, it seems very unlikely that he is going to stick at the position for the Rangers.

Trade Cat and promote Davis. Move Max to 1B/DH in AAA and wait for the DH at bats to open up in Arlington. If Bradley’s health plays better at DH and he is in our long-term plans, trade Max. He could be a nice chip to have at the deadline.

Dalton

by jparks77 on Jun 2, 2008 10:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Davis is not ready.

He has a lot of bad habits that only the best Texas League pitching could expose. AAA will beat him down for a bit, and he’ll be forced to make adjustments. Major League pitching would shred him. He’s still several months away.

Max Ramirez, on the other hand, is a very smart hitter with a line drive swing who knows when he has a pitch he can lift out of the park. Max will probably go straight to Texas at some point (soon?) as a 1B. The only question right now is how ready he is defensively at 1B.

by NoNameOnCard on Jun 2, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pretty Good

Max’s numbers are otherworldly and been going on long enough that the Rangers should give a lot of consideration before trading him. A mini-Manny or some such is just too valuable on a daily basis to be traded unless the return is a really proven commodity. It remains to be seen if he develops like this but I think that the idea of trading him is discussed too lightly here.

by mcgee48c on Jun 2, 2008 10:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Ramirez before Davis

Am I the only one that thinks Ramirez looks more ready for the big show than Davis? He covers more positions of need anyway. Trade Laird or Salty(for a top flight pitcher- greinke?) and Cat, bring up Ramirez and that gives us our backup catcher, DH, and backup 1b. Skipping AAA is not all that atypical. He’s ready.

by aggiecurt05 on Jun 2, 2008 10:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

No you're not

Even though Keith Law “doesn’t like his approach” he’s pretty clearly more polished offensively than Davis, and he was outperforming him when Davis was promoted.

by Brett Perryman on Jun 2, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

One thing though

You can’t get a Geinke for Laird or Salty. From the posts today I get the feeling that everyone has forgotten how hard it is to trade for pitching. Granted, catching is valuable too, but a guy like Greinke is better and/or more proven than our catchers anyway.

by Brett Perryman on Jun 2, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Salt/Hurley

for Greinke. Would you do it?

Not the only black poster on LSB.

by sprite on Jun 2, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Salt/Feliz

Dalton

by jparks77 on Jun 2, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep, I do it without thinking twice. The Greinke idea is taken from mlbtraderumors.com, which probably means it’s completely ridiculous (and it floored me that the Royals would consider trading him.) Totally agree Zywica that Laird wouldn’t get it done, but a trade centered around Salty, including Hurley, and someone like Duran might be enough to get the conversation started (now, would I do it if it required me to cough up Andrus or Davis rather than Duran? Maybe, but it would hurt).

by aggiecurt05 on Jun 2, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The only way that

I could see those players getting you Greinke is if the Royals think that he’s having problems again.

by Brett Perryman on Jun 2, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

by Brett Perryman on Jun 2, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes

but KC wouldn’t.

by Agreen07 on Jun 2, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is it out of the realm of possibility?

That Max Ramirez is our starting DH in 2009? Let’s say we sign Bradley to a long term deal, and he is healthy enough to play the field….Why not? Is this just wishful thinking or do y’all think it’s a possibility we might see him in Arlington next year?

Hello Win Column!

by jboll on Jun 2, 2008 11:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i think a lot of people think he should be our starting DH in august 08 if bradley is traded.

Gerald Laird is my hero.

by DSheppard on Jun 2, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

third base

probably old age, but I thought I read somewhere that he was originally drafted as a third baseman—another option?

by oldcatsfan on Jun 2, 2008 11:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

He wasn't drafted

He did start in pro ball playing third, but very poorly so. I don’t think that it’s an option beyond possibly being a fill-in. He is not a third baseman.

by Brett Perryman on Jun 2, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

please educate me

I have stumbled around and see that he did play his first season at 3b-after that it was a switch to catcher—is there some info somewhere that indicates he was incapable/not good at 3b and therefore the move? Slow feet? Bad hands? I’ve been trying to discover for myself without having to ask, but you seem to know.

by oldcatsfan on Jun 2, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here's just a thought

maybe a terrible one. Switch Tea and Max so we can see how Max handles the quality of AAA pitching for a little while. If it bears out that Max is a more advanced hitter than Davis, then the Rangers can bring up Max at 1B in Sept. Granted, we have the Blalock issue, but if Max works out, Blalock can move back to 3rd till the end of the season.

JD drinks the Angels milkshake.

by WyoRanger on Jun 2, 2008 11:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Demoting

I don’t think demoting prospects is ever a good idea unless they are struggling terribly. Especially one of TT caliber.

White Women!

by nikpin on Jun 2, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not "demoted"

Explain the situation to Tea, say it has nothing to do with Tea’s play and is just temporary but the organization wants to see what Max can do against AAA pitching. The question I would have is whether sending Tea to AA would adversely affect his pay. If so, it probably wouldn’t work.

JD drinks the Angels milkshake.

by WyoRanger on Jun 2, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sugar coating aside

That is a demotion. Minor league pay is minimal regardless. But its something like $2,150 a month for AAA and $1,500 a month for AA. Not a huge difference but still a significant amount.

White Women!

by nikpin on Jun 2, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's crazy.

The message that sends is “we think he’s a more important prospect than you, so we want to move him up”.

...and curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid git.

by t ball on Jun 2, 2008 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

In my opinion

we need to trade Bradley at the trading deadline for a quality prospect that we could repackage with one of our catchers for a stud SP prospect. In all honesty Max Ramirez should be traded, I can’t imagine his value getting much higher than it is now.

by Agreen07 on Jun 2, 2008 12:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Max

If Max hits on the ML level his value will rise.

But yeah, he’s a guy right now.

I lean more and more towards dealing Bradley. Next to Josh, he’s probably the team’s best trade chip barring Saltalamacchia catching fire. Bradley’s going to bring back somebody’s very finest prospect.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Jun 2, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The question now is what kind of prospect do we want?

Somehow I want a stud SP prospect or young mlb player. I mean stud… Most quality prospects don’t amount to the value that they have while in the minors. Given this, I think we are in a perfect position to package 2-3 really good prospects for a stud young SP. We should target a struggling team that needs to add depth to their farm system. It would take a lot to pull a stud SP away from a team but we do have the chips to do it, the question now is do we want to? Or rather do we have the testicular fortitude to do it.

by Agreen07 on Jun 2, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The other question

is who is going to protect Hamilton the way Bradley has been able. I think we should not under estimate the importance of protecting Hamilton.

Passion sucks

by RingoRanger on Jun 2, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Meh

I don’t think lineup protection is all that relevant.

by Adam J. Morris on Jun 2, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

in a zero-zero situation

I agree. However, what happens to the defensive strategy when runner(s) are on base?
I.e., Kinsler and/or Young ob with Hamilton up vs. no one on base, Hamilton up?

by oldcatsfan on Jun 2, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It may not be relevant

in context (I suppose) but it is relevant to how Hamilton is pitched. If it is not broke don’t fix it.
Unless Bradley can bring a bona fied #1 or (maybe) #2, no need to talk trade. IMO

Passion sucks

by RingoRanger on Jun 2, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How So?

You don’t think opposing pitchers would pitch around Hamilton more with Murphy hitting behind him instead of Bradley? It may not be extremely important, but I think it’s more relevant than you think.

by Topgun22 on Jun 2, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

I don’t think it would make a whole lot of difference.

by Adam J. Morris on Jun 2, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Josh does not need protection

Opposing pitchers are only throwing like 45% strikes at him anyway.

Plus, I don’t mind more Josh Jrs.

by Telegraph on Jun 2, 2008 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Develop him for a role

I still don’t get why he is in AA. To me is seems like most people are in agreement that he isn’t going to be a full-time catcher or a full-time 1B. Why not promote him to AAA, have him DH 4 times a week, catch once and play first one. That way TT and C. Davis get an occasional day off, and Max keeps sharp at 2 defensive positions if he’s needed full-time for an injury.

That seems to be his role in the majors anyway, why not see how he adjust to it in AAA first. And don’t say Nate Gold or Jason Botts is keeping him down.

by kpb928 on Jun 2, 2008 12:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Max

Best guess: he’s training hard to catch, because his defensive abilities aren’t strong enough to back someone up yet.

In spite of being largely positionless, if Max can swing between C and DH he’s going to provide some great roster flexibility. And I’m talking about the ML 25-man roster.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Jun 2, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs