Rolling the dice on King Felix
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 30, 2008 10:31 AM CDT
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PrintSo, I'm reading this item over at U.S.S. Mariner, where they are discussing who on the team could be sold off, and Dave CameronDerek Zumsteg talks about the price for King Felix:
This is difficult for me to say, but this might be the best time ever to trade Felix. If the M’s can get a huge haul in blue-chip prospects, it’s worth thinking about. Felix is a tremendous talent, but we’re a couple years in seeing him at the major league level and in a way we’re asking the same questions we did about Garcia in the day. Felix’s best pitch isn’t his fastball, as we saw with Freddy, but over and over he chooses not to go with his best pitch to get outs, insisting on trying to throw the fastball. This year we’ve seen his game take a big step back in every way but the most widely accepted stats like ERA. I worry he’s not ever going to learn to harness his ability, and we’ll see exactly that Garcia path.
Yet the perception of Felix as a rising star is as strong as ever, and his superficially impressive stats make people drool.
Set aside plausibility for just a second and just consider this. Tampa Bay calls tomorrow and says “Did you read what Hank Steinbrenner just said about us? We’ve been up all night drinking Red Bull and planning revenge and we are going to mess that guy up. We’re making a run at this thing, and we want Felix. We’ll give up Evan Longoria, two of our ML-ready mid-rotation guys, and one of our top pitching prospects — take your pick. Come on, help us stick it to the Yankees.”
That’s how it was pitched to me. And If you’re like me, you didn’t have a ready answer, and you’re going to have a lot of confusing and dismaying thoughts for a while. I was surprised my answer wasn’t an immediate “no” when confronted that way, and the more I thought about it… I know, but there it is: the M’s are so deeply screwed right now, my worries about Felix are substantive enough, and his value is high enough that there are trades I’d make for Felix and, what’s more, those trades may well be out there this coming month.
The D-Rays aren't the only team that could pitch a scenario like that, or for whom such a deal might make sense. One of the things we've talked about is how the Rangers have a lot of depth of prospects, but what they are really lacking is someone in the upper levels who projects as a legit #1.
King Felix, of course, does. And he's under team control through 2011.
Would Christopher Davis, Eric Hurley, the M's choice of one guy from the Harrison/Hunter/Feldman/Mendoza/Diamond grab-bag, and any one pitcher (other than Neftali Feliz) below AA (which would allow them to sift through Main, Beavan, Ramirez, Font, Castillo, and Kiker, among others) be enough to get King Felix?
Would you give up that package?
If you do that deal, and bring Bradley back, are the Rangers legit playoff contenders in 2009 (and I mean, really legit, not "if everything breaks right and the stars align" contenders like this year's M's)?
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Geez
I’d have a hard time believing the M’s would seriously do a deal like that.
However, if that was the price on the Rangers side—absolutely yes, I would do that.
I would offer a lot for him
but I cannot see the Mariners trading him within the division if they trade him at all.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
I can't see the M's...
dealing him or Ichiro. Even if they did the price to do so within the division would be too high I fear. I would have a hard time giving up Davis right now as well.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
i think you'd still have to sign...
...one of either Ben Sheets, Ollie Perez, C.C. Sabathia to be considered “legit” legit…
+1
and thats why you do both
Its time the Rangers get MULTIPLE front line starters, although I guess we should just start with one.
Please forgive any and all typos, mispellings, etc.
Your kindess in this matter is appreciated.
by red shoe ranger on Jun 30, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
question:
Is it just too inconceivable to make the effort to go out and sign BOTH Sabathia AND Sheets during the offseason? We’ve built our farm up and we’re finally doing things the right way. Now we start selling players off? I don’t like that idea.
We DO need to trade one of the catchers (Salty) for more pitching, but i would rather trade for a guy like Burnett because his price wouldn’t cost us Davis and too many top pitching prospects. If we could trade Millwood and Padilla for prospects, we wouldn’t feel the pinch at all from acquiring Burnett.
If we COULD trade for Burnett, then sign C.C. AND Sheets, our payroll would at the very least reflect a team who was serious about winning. Our payroll is one of the lowest in the league and giving big contracts to 3 pitchers and Hamilton probably wouldn’t even land us in the top 5-7.
A rotation of Sabathia, Sheets, Burnett, Hurley and Mendoza for next year would be great.
No I don't think that would make us legit contenders
Assume our offense stays around the same level, our pitching would still have significant holes. Imagine a rotation led by Felix. It would look something like Felix, Padilla, Millwood, two from the grab bag.
I suppose if you want to shell out money for Sabathia or Sheets this offseason, a rotation led by Felix, Sheets/Sabathia, Padilla and MIlly could make us legit contenders.
Well
Would the combined contribution of those guys outweigh that of having a potential ace?
That’s always the question, of course, but in this case, being in the same division, I’m just not sure.
I know I’m on an island on this position, but I think the “ace” is overrated, at least in terms of trading. There are plenty of people who would give over the entire collection of hitters to get one “ace”. To me, though, having a #2, a couple #3s (whatever those numbers mean), and a power bat are at least as valuable as one pitcher, however talented he may be.
Agree 100%
Look at some bad teams with stud pitchers
Seattle 31-50 (Bedard/Hernandez)
Cleveland 37-45 (Lee/Sabathia)
Toronto 40-43 (Halladay/Burnett)
San Diego 32-51 (Peavy)
San Francisco 36-46 (Lincecum)
However, if the Rangers can maintain their offensive output while having a rotation led by Felix & Sheets, while still having Padilla and Milly in the rotation, I think we could be serious contenders.
i'm not sure i understand the reference???
are you trying to be a bad team or a good team? we should concern ourselves with good teams – all of which have aces on their staffs.
CHI – zambrano 8-3 3.13
STL – lohse 9-2 3.94
MIL – sheets 9-2 2.83
TB – kazmir 7-3 2.28
LAA – lackey 6-1 1.44
BOS – beckett 7-5 3.65
by sam in so cal on Jun 30, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Uh
Did you just refer to Kyle Lohse as an ace? Wainwright is the ace of that staff (although he’s hurt). Lohse is a dude that’s pitching over his head.
opening day box score
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=280401124
i am not a fan of STL and don’t know the roster, but i did a quick check of stats and box scores to see who the ace of the staff would be. i just assumed that the ace gets the ball opening day (absent injury).
for what it’s worth, wainwright got the ball on the 5th of april…
brett gardner says that an ace is overrated. agreen07 agrees. i disagreed.
don’t lose sight of the message. wainwright is 6-3 with a 3.14. good teams have aces, so to say that aces are overrated only seems true if you are trying to avoid being a good team. brett knows more than me, but i still can have an opinion (supported by facts that are mostly correct).
by sam in so cal on Jun 30, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't opine one way or another
I just thought it was funny that anyone referred to Kyle Lohse as an ace.
Not to sound disrespectful, but I couldn’t care less who starts on opening day. The ace of a staff is the best pitcher on said staff.
no disrespect taken
but doesn’t a team generally start their (perceived) ace (or as you said your best pitcher) opening day?
please help me here: ace = best pitcher = opening day starter
if not, then my lack of baseball knowledge is greater than i thought.
it seems to me that a team would want their ace out there as often as possible, and because of this they would give him the ball opening day.
by sam in so cal on Jun 30, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm on am iphone so I don't want to do research
This is a pointless argument though. Who is the best pitcher on the Cardinals’ staff?
If you think Lohse, fine. To me that’s kind of amusing though.
I do think that
Wainwright is overrated, though.
Wainwright is a #2 who happens to be the best pitcher on said staff. That is an “ace” by your definition.
Adam Wainwright is not an ace.
"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'
I’ll give ya something.
1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"
~ The Immortal, BG
by inactive lsb user on Jun 30, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Eh
I think Wainwright is among the best pitchers in the NL. Maybe I overrate him.
The list of true aces
is very short.
If you pitch in the NL, you better dominate if you’re an ace, like Peavy, Lincecum, and Webb.
Wainwright’s FIP is 3.76 while his regular ERA is 3.14. He also has a career-low BABIP this year at .260. On top of all that, he isn’t a big-time K guy, so I’d expect his production to resemble that of a #2, once normalized.
"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'
I’ll give ya something.
1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"
~ The Immortal, BG
by inactive lsb user on Jun 30, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Kyle Lohse
He’s not a very good pitcher.
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 30, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Yea keep up the stupid sarcasm
So to your logic, Millwood is considered an ace? Millwood on other teams would be a #3 or #2 at best.
I don't believe he was being sarcastic
If he was, I wasn’t being nearly snarky enough.
“please help me here: ace = best pitcher = opening day starter
if not, then my lack of baseball knowledge is greater than i thought.”
Sounds like a smartass to me.
i hate to break up your wet toast party, but...
his comments were most likely made out of laziness and him being too careless to take the time to read the previous posts in the ongoing discussion in an effort to fully understand the context of the comments i made.
comments made by you in support of his statement(s) are more out of stupidity and demonstrate a troubling character flaw.
just my two cents…
by sam in so cal on Jun 30, 2008 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions
?
how am i being a smartass?
here’s the original quote:
Not to sound disrespectful, but I couldn’t care less who starts on opening day. The ace of a staff is the best pitcher on said staff.
i responded:
please help me here: ace = best pitcher = opening day starter
i never said, implied or mentioned that millwood might/would/should be an ace (or a #2 or a #3).
i was responding (and not to you i might add) to a quote that a team might start someone other than their “ace” on opening day.
please don’t litter the board with criticisms of inferences that i did not make, or refer to comments that i made (taken out of context by YOU) as stupid sarcasm.
LiamP made what i thought was a very interesting statement, and i wanted to get clarification. no where did i say that every team’s opening day starter should be considered a league-wide ace.
your inability to read and subsequently comprehend a statement that i made (to someone else) does not make me a smartass.
thanks though for your insight (sarcasm intended).
by sam in so cal on Jun 30, 2008 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
So by your definition
every team who starts a pitcher on opening day has an ace.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 30, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
you know why i like Lone Star Ball?...
...the dogpiles…
by oc on Jun 30, 2008 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions
every team has a #1 starter that is their ace, even the rangers
12/29/2005 2:05 PM ET
Rangers introduce ace Millwood
GM Daniels: Right-hander a ‘holiday gift’ to fans from owner
By Jesse Sanchez / MLB.com
ARLINGTON—How the new-look Rangers pitching staff will fare in the competitive American League West in 2006 is to be determined, but there were at least two certainties clarified Thursday morning.
1. as far as i know every team has a starter on opening day
2. as far as i know (ending LiamP’s clarification) every team starts their best pitcher on opening day
3. team’s refer to their best pitcher as their ace (even if he completely sucks).
4. so, yes every team that starts a pitcher on opening day has what they would consider their ace.
teams with multiple good/great pitchers (ATL from the 1990s) might have multiple pitchers that could be an ace elsewhere (glavine, smoltz) but i think maddox was regarded as the ace of that staff.
i also think that teams that have a starter on the 2nd game of the year have a #2 guy – but i could be wrong.
by sam in so cal on Jun 30, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I remember
when our Ace was Ryan Drese.
Good times.
"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain
wainwright/lohse
Lohse got that start because their opening day got rained out after like 2 or 3 innings and Wainwright did start that game. So without the rain out Wainwright would have been the opening day starter
and i was saying...
that i don’t think you can be a contender without a quality ace like the 5 i mentioned (+ lohse who apparently is some overrated hack masquerading as the cardinal’s ace because of a weather incident in late march/early april).
by sam in so cal on Jun 30, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
While that might be true in the regular season, come playoff time the teams that win do so with their first three starting pitchers. So, even if we have the team to make it to the playoffs, we don’t have the pitchers that can consistently win the matchups among the top pitchers in the AL (Beckett, Kazmir, etc).
You also have to look at the cost versus production of alternatives in the system. Would we lose a great deal going from Davis to Blalock and MaxRam at first (with Smoak coming up)? How about Hurley to King Felix? Would losing one of the 10 high ceiling pitchers in the lower level minors really keep us from competing in 2012?
This is a no brainer in my opinion. Seattle doesn’t do it though.
by aggiecurt05 on Jun 30, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
I think you have to
sign either Sheets or Sabathia to make us contenders along with Felix. One pitcher a staff does not make. It helps but we need more.
by booyahcaveman on Jun 30, 2008 10:43 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
There is
NO WAY that the Mariners would trade Felix within the division. I’d give them that package without hesitation if they would.
by Brett Perryman on Jun 30, 2008 10:47 AM CDT reply actions
My thoughts exactly.
I think it would also make JD a bit more timid than say trading that package to the NL West. He would be crucified if the team missed the playoffs and Davis ripped us a new one for years.
Joe Morgan: (On Jay Bruce) I think he will. He brings energy to the team, and besides that, he is a pretty good hitter.
Ken Tremendous: I like that the #1 reason he will help his team is: "energy," and the distant #2 reason is: "ability to hit baseballs."
Yes
Felix is only 22. We would get the young legit Ace we always wanted. We have Justin Smoak in the fold and could play 1B in 2 years or so. Best case scenario for Hurley is that he will become a # 3 Pitcher. We will replenish some of the prospects lost in a Bradley and Padilla deal. If you sign Sheets in the off-season you will have a great 1-2 Combo. But I doubt he will be traded within the division.
why
would we sign sheets but still give up bradley padilla, there is no way we are contenders without those 2 guys
Kinsler is the best player on the rangers, BENOIT SUCKS, bring up Harrison
Come on
If the Rangers have King Felix, Sheets, and Millwood in the rotation, you don’t think there’s any way the Rangers are contenders if they don’t also have Padilla?
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 30, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
That rotation is probably good enough...
It would be interesting to see who we traded Bradley and Padilla for…do we restock the farm or trying to add players that can help win now. As for losing Davis, I guess Maxy Poo would take over at 1B next season.
ya
we need milton, hes always on base and gets josh or chris next year pitches to hit
Kinsler is the best player on the rangers, BENOIT SUCKS, bring up Harrison
Remember
Bradley is having a career year. He’s in his 30’s and he’s injury prone. If we were to shell out big bucks to anyone it shouldn’t be him. We should get value for him while we can.
by Monkey Brain on Jun 30, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
if we get value that
would be ready to be in the big leagues this year or ‘09 then i would be ok with it but he seems to be a guy who really wants to win and thats what we need
Kinsler is the best player on the rangers, BENOIT SUCKS, bring up Harrison
we
would have SOME chance but i think if we are gonna sign a guy like sheets we should go overboard with having good players because one of our qualtiy players might have a bad year
Kinsler is the best player on the rangers, BENOIT SUCKS, bring up Harrison
That's a steep price
I’d have no trouble with giving up Davis (given Smoak) or most of the others mentioned. Except Hurley. I’d be concerned with a Danks/McCarthy redux. I know Hurley is no Felix obviously, but I’d like our chances a lot better if Hurley and Felix were both in the Rotation in 2009 and 2010.
"You’re the only here who contributes schtick only." - brettgardner
Hell no.
I don’t like the idea of giving up two legitimate contributers, one of whom has star potential and the other who could still develop into a #2 type, along with pitching depth from the minors to a division rival for Felix Hernandez. He’s got a ton of potential, sure, but he’s also got the looks of a guy that might just flame out (at least in my opinion).
We undervalued Danks—who would look pretty damned good in a Rangers uniform right now. The pitchers we’ve traded have been lighting up the baseball world, so I think it’s about time we were patient with the guys we have left and gave them a legitimate chance to help our club over the long haul. Our model should not be to play for one or two years of contention, but to follow the Braves example and contend year in and year out because we’re growing our own cheap talent.
Teams historically overpay for established high-end pitchers. I just don’t like the logic of trading the farm (including a guy that is a “can’t miss” in my opinion” for a pitcher who will make 34 or so starts if he manages to remain healthy. Realistically, how many extra wins would Felix give us in a typical season? Thinking of it in those terms, is it really worth our top hitting prospect, our best high-level pitching prospect, our next best upper level pitching prospect and one of our high projection pitching prospects in the lower levels? Not for me. I think we gain more wins holding on to those guys than selling them for a single player who will play 1 out of every 5 days.
by Athos on Jun 30, 2008 10:56 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
agreed
i really dont want to see anyone else from the rangers farm system have a crazy year with a different team
Kinsler is the best player on the rangers, BENOIT SUCKS, bring up Harrison
agreed
i really dont want to see anyone else from the rangers farm system have a crazy year with a different team
Kinsler is the best player on the rangers, BENOIT SUCKS, bring up Harrison
If you asked any impartial observer
they would laugh at a Rangers fan who wouldn’t give up those prospects for Hernandez. And then they’d laugh at the Mariners for actually doing something so stupid.
by Brett Perryman on Jun 30, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
That's fine.
I don’t mind being laughed at, but many of us seem to have a real weakness for certain players and are willing to give the moon for them. I think that over the long haul, we pick up more wins with Davis playing 1B and Hurley starting every 5th day than with Felix starting every 5th day. When you start thinking about how pitchers in that second tier that were mentioned might also help, it gets to be an even dumber deal in my mind. Throw in our young guys who have ace potential and that makes the question absurd in my mind.
Do you really believe that Rangers pick up more wins with Felix than with all our home grown talent we’d be tossing into the pot for him?
Sure
The marginal difference between what Davis would do over a Ramirez or Smoak just doesn’t figure to make up for Hernandez/Hurley.
by Brett Perryman on Jun 30, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Does he difference between Davis and Ramirez/Smoak
Make up for the difference of Hurley/Harrison/Main?
Smoak
Shouldn’t be in consideration for anything until he has proven he can play professionally, and is close to being ready.
why not have a future of
1B – Smoak
DH – Davis
C – Max
I think we should be putting a package together of Salty, Harrison, Duran, and someone else for Felix.
Seattle would never do that...
They already have their own version of Salty.
I think you are underrating the value of Felix. Especially trading him in the division. It would take Hurley, Davis and another prospect. Minimum.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
They have a glut of catchers already
They wouldn’t touch that package with a 10 foot pole
Joe Morgan: (On Jay Bruce) I think he will. He brings energy to the team, and besides that, he is a pretty good hitter.
Ken Tremendous: I like that the #1 reason he will help his team is: "energy," and the distant #2 reason is: "ability to hit baseballs."
I guess
I better put it back in my pants then…..
Please forgive any and all typos, mispellings, etc.
Your kindess in this matter is appreciated.
by red shoe ranger on Jun 30, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Good to see we've moved from insane Buchholz trades
to insane Felix trades.
I guess we'll have to disagree.
I think Davis and Ramirez are not mutually exclusive. I’d rather have both of those bats in the lineup. We can figure out what to do with Smoak when he gets here. Right now, I’m not prepared to sell a ready for the majors smasher for the potential that an as good or better bat might be in the pipelines. If Smoak is that good, we can teach either him or Davis to play a corner outfield slot. I’d rather have all three of those young cheap guys in the lineup mashing than a single guy that will pitch every 5th day—especially if we have a home grown guy that can keep us in games already pitching every 5th day.
I think it's interesting
that many folks argued that the Volquez/Hamilton deal made sense because you’re getting a stud who’ll play every day as opposed to someone who’ll go every 5th day (make no mistake, I’m not questioning that deal). However, to support giving up CD, Hurley, Harrison, AND another player for a guy who will only pitch every 5th day??? That’s too much.
There is no such thing as global warming. David Murphy was cold, so he turned the sun up.
by SarasotaRanger on Jun 30, 2008 10:58 AM CDT reply actions
King Felix >>> Volquez
And he’s two years younger than Volquez.
And Hamilton is better than Davis.
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 30, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
If the Rangers traded for Felix
they would have to go out and overpay for Sabathia or Sheets. Otherwise I wouldn’t want to do it..
I don't like the idea of giving up CD
After seeing him have 2 big league starts, especially since he hit a homerun in both of them. I don’t think you just throw him into the package like that, especially since we don’t have another viable candidate for 1b or a legit #2 if we don’t have Hurley. I don’t trust Millwood and Padilla is inconsistent.
I agree with both of those assessments... for now...
but that’s still too much to give up for one starter. We’re talking about giving away guys from our positions of need (SP and 1B), so let’s not fuck up the future for one guy who we’ll see every 5 days.
There is no such thing as global warming. David Murphy was cold, so he turned the sun up.
by SarasotaRanger on Jun 30, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't characterize him as a "strong" defender
but more like an adequate or capable defender. Regardless, the point is trading for a player who makes an impact every day for a starting pitcher is a risky proposition, especially where the Rangers would have to part with their future All-Star 1st baseman and one, possibly two rotation guys.
There is no such thing as global warming. David Murphy was cold, so he turned the sun up.
by SarasotaRanger on Jun 30, 2008 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
"a guy who plays every 5th day"
discounts what an Ace contributes. Over 20% of your starts…and if you make the playoffs, possibly 2 games in a 5 game series, and possibly 3 games in a best of 7. the problem is, our bullpen is still a shell of its former self and we’ll still have holes in our rotation.
an ace guarantees victory 75% of the time, no?...
...key to have if you’re mired in a losing streak…
and what about giving up CD's bat
and one solid rotation spot and another likely rotation guy (all of this is assumed to be the minimum for Felix, so could possibly be more) for a guy who’ll win every 5th day at a 75 percent rate. CD will help every day and I don’t want to have a bunch of Koronka/Rheinecker/Loes in the rotation where Hurley/Harrison should’ve been.
There is no such thing as global warming. David Murphy was cold, so he turned the sun up.
by SarasotaRanger on Jun 30, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
sign Sheets...
...suddenly it’s Felix, Sheets, Padilla, Millwood, McCarthy…
looks good, doesn’t it?
by oc on Jun 30, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Looks
freaking incredible.
Especially if you resign Bradley. If you go out and add Pat Burrell too you’ve got yourself an AL West favorite.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 30, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
If, and its a damn big if....
... that bunch stays healthy. McCarthy/Sheets/Millwood are walking wounded.
There is no such thing as global warming. David Murphy was cold, so he turned the sun up.
by SarasotaRanger on Jun 30, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
ahh... you're right... and when you're right, you're right... and you?... you're always right...
by oc on Jun 30, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmmmmm....
...... you’re right!!!!
There is no such thing as global warming. David Murphy was cold, so he turned the sun up.
by SarasotaRanger on Jun 30, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Name a team who's rotation you'd rather have over that one
Keep in mind we’d have Mendoza and Feldman and Harrison and Hunter behind them in case of injury.
I’m trying to think of one.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 30, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm trying to think of one...
Maybe the D-Backs?
Webb, Haren, Owings, Doogie Davis, and Max Scherzer is pretty damn impressive, and I may be leaving someone out.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 30, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
That is a fairly dominant
roto.
Kazmir, Shields, Garza, Sonnanstine, and E-Jack is nothing to sneeze at.
"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'
I’ll give ya something.
1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"
~ The Immortal, BG
by inactive lsb user on Jun 30, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Axe Harrison from that list because
he’s proposed to go in the Felix move.
There is no such thing as global warming. David Murphy was cold, so he turned the sun up.
by SarasotaRanger on Jun 30, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Well I had assumed they'd pick Diamond
so, sure, axe Harrison and add Diamond.
Since Diamond > Harrison, I’d love that :)
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 30, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Put Tampa in the discussion.
There is no such thing as global warming. David Murphy was cold, so he turned the sun up.
by SarasotaRanger on Jun 30, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
psshhh...
...i wouldn’t be surprised if Friedman’s on the phone with Seattle right now…
by oc on Jun 30, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
possibly
but I doubt they give up Longoria, which could be a deal breaker.
There is no such thing as global warming. David Murphy was cold, so he turned the sun up.
by SarasotaRanger on Jun 30, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Isn't Sheets an Ace?
If so, why not sign him and have Sheets, Padilla, Millwood, Hurley, McCarthy and still have CD in the line-up.
I think
The Rangers should trade for Brandon Webb, then sign Sheets AND Sabathia AND trade for Felix. That could all TOTALLY happen!
Yah, but we'd need to trade for Pujols too in that scenario
cause we’d need more offense.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 30, 2008 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions
NO
I don’t do the deal.
We should look for best packages that include players in depth positions. Davis and Hurley should be kept at all costs, we need to fill a hole at 1B and SP. Hurley looks like he can be a very good.
If we’re trying to trade for a #1 (I know it’s difficult), we should be including guys like Salty, Teag, Andrus, Borbon, Beltre, JMJ, Duran.
Trading pitchers for pitchers is very dangerous for us. Last thing I want is for Felix to have shoulder surgery and then we have to face Davis and Hurley a bunch of times each year.
yes
TRADE SALTY, he sucks at offense and he sucks at defense, we have max and teagarden. and as for max being an “offensive catcher” he made a great throw to second yesterday and also the two games he has called we have allowed 1 run and 2 runs, coincidence? i dont think so
Kinsler is the best player on the rangers, BENOIT SUCKS, bring up Harrison
you
think salty is good??
Kinsler is the best player on the rangers, BENOIT SUCKS, bring up Harrison
how old
is max
Kinsler is the best player on the rangers, BENOIT SUCKS, bring up Harrison
And your point is?
Mine is that you don’t give up on 22 or 23 year old kids when they don’t perform right away. He is too good a player to just say he sucks.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
my point
is max is better
Kinsler is the best player on the rangers, BENOIT SUCKS, bring up Harrison
Please...
and you know that after seeing him play for 1 week in the majors? Come on that’s just stupid.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
saw him play in frisco
and sometimes you can tell who is good after a week. and besides you cant get much worse than .212 3 hr and 16 rbi
and throwing out 3 out 30 baserunners
Kinsler is the best player on the rangers, BENOIT SUCKS, bring up Harrison
.....with an .338 OBP
At 23 years old.
Joe Morgan: (On Jay Bruce) I think he will. He brings energy to the team, and besides that, he is a pretty good hitter.
Ken Tremendous: I like that the #1 reason he will help his team is: "energy," and the distant #2 reason is: "ability to hit baseballs."
Batting
near the bottom of the order most nights.
"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'
I’ll give ya something.
1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"
~ The Immortal, BG
by inactive lsb user on Jun 30, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes he is a player
but I would rather trade him a year too early than a year too late. Salty needs to go before the “promise” label is gone.
Why not just keep him...
If teams want a catcher from us, Gerald Laird and Taylor Teagarden should be the only ones available.
Why?
What has Salty done as a professional to warrant that opportunity? I think his value right now exceeds his potential going forward at the major league level. Just my opinion but I think Salty is the catcher that is traded.
yes we
dont need salty
Kinsler is the best player on the rangers, BENOIT SUCKS, bring up Harrison
Salty
I don’t think that selling low on him now would be a good idea just one year after buying high on him. He’s going to hit much more than than he is right now, you have to think.
Laird’s trade value probably has never been higher.
I don’t think it would be a good idea to trade Salty and keep Laird and run the (very real) risk of Salty going somewhere else and being a star and keep Laird and watch him regress back to a below average hitter.
"So you think the Celtics will beat Detroit? Hell will freeze over before that happens, mark my words." miles 5/20/08
by badradiorules on Jun 30, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I fear that situation
immensely.
"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'
I’ll give ya something.
1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"
~ The Immortal, BG
by inactive lsb user on Jun 30, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreeance.
No more trading of young pitchers…PERIOD.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jun 30, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
So you don't trade
Matt Harrison for Tim Lincecum? That’s about what you’re saying when you refuse to deal our young pitching for Hernandez.
by Brett Perryman on Jun 30, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
I think you'd have a point ...
if the potential trade was a one for one involving Felix. But we’re talking about 3 young pitchers for one AND a guy that will probably be good for 40 bombs per season. That’s too much.
Nice to see you
injecting logic into the conversation.
Yes, I would do Lincecum for Harrison but what are the chances of that offer being made?
Jeez.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jun 30, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
a lincecum trade
the lincecum trade would be davis, harrison, JMJ, and a low level high ceiling arm like a beavan or maybe an arias, given their lack of position prospects
baseBALLIN!
Way, way more than that
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 30, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
If the Rangers
could manage to have just an average pitching staff they would contend for the division. Even without a true #1 SP.
Brandon Boggs 2008 Texas Rangers ROY
This is the sad mentality of a rangers fan ( I fall into it). An average pitching staff can get you to barely make the playoffs…IF all the cards fall perfectly, but you NEVER win in the playoffs with an average staff. Name the last team to win the pennant without a true ace?
by aggiecurt05 on Jun 30, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
ST Louis
W: "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
by hubcityraider on Jun 30, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Ahem!
I mean, AHEM!
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 30, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
He's decent ...
"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'
I’ll give ya something.
1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"
~ The Immortal, BG
by inactive lsb user on Jun 30, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions
untouchable
Luis Mendoza is who i would have a big problem giving up, he is better than Armando Gallaraga, Scott Feldman, and Eric Hurley for that matter. Can’t wait to see him in Yankee Stadium on Wednesday. If the Rangers take the next step this year, it wont be because we aquired an arm or a bat from outside the organization. It will be Chris Davis, Eric Hurley, and Luis Mendoza.
welcome to the board, luis.
you don’t have to be so anonymous, just say who you are.
But seriously, for me that guy is Feldman. I feel like next year, he’s going to take a gigantic step forward.
Rare Gnats Sex
Feldman..
Needs an out pitch, seems like when he really needs to get an out, he just can’t put em’ away.
he
can work on that in the off-season. hes thrown a couple of nasty curves, he just has to work on it. it is his first year as a starter and first year not throwing side-arm
Kinsler is the best player on the rangers, BENOIT SUCKS, bring up Harrison
ya
i think mendoza is better but i still like how consistent feldman is, too bad he nevers seems to get a win
Kinsler is the best player on the rangers, BENOIT SUCKS, bring up Harrison
I think the Rangers should be taking chances on guys
like H. Bailey. His value is really low right now but he still has tons of potential. We should go after him.
disagree
And give the Reds another future starter from our farm.. WE should never EVER trade with the Reds again.
you think
that volquez would have the same year if he was still on the rangers? i dont think he was happy here
Kinsler is the best player on the rangers, BENOIT SUCKS, bring up Harrison
then we need to address what makes people happy...
"And then there are rules. No beer, no nothing. Guys would drink it on the road. Not me. I had to comb my hair. Not miss any stretch. Put my hat straight. Keep my pants up."
the rangers can justify the trade with excuses, but the inability of this organization to get the most out of volquez falls squarely on the team.
IF the rangers did their job and got volquez to perform at the level he was able to a couple of months after being traded, then they NEVER would have traded him for hamilton. they paint him as a reclamation project b/c it keeps the ranger fans from going ape shit, but the fact remains that after just a few weeks (and maybe an arm angle adjustment?) EV became the best pitcher in the NL.
yes, the trade has worked out for both teams (pending hamilton’s ability to make it through a season???), but my opinion is that the gm could have put together another package of players to get hamilton (that would not include a cy young winner). jd will NEVER admit that other trade possibilities might have existed so we’ll never know, but to give up on a player that will go on to win the Cy Young the next season is horrific. that’s the equivalent of chicago trading jordan after his first season b/c his shorts were too long (well, something like that).
volquez – ERA 1st, SO 2nd, Wins 2nd… for one of the WORST teams and one that plays in a hitter’s ballpark.
inexcusable.
by sam in so cal on Jun 30, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
really?
I guess you hadn’t heard about the 2 dozen or so offers JD made to Cincy that did not include Volquez to try and get Hamilton. Thats who Cincy wanted and wouldn’t trade Hammy for anyone but Volquez
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
You have read the multiple reports from both sides
that JD tried putting together tons of different non-Volquez packages, right?
I believe the SI article had it at 16 different packages JD tried.
If we wanted Cincy to trade Hambone to us, we had to give up Edinson.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 30, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
fair enough...
you both seem adamant that jd made 16-24 offers to CIN that did not include volquez.
assuming that these reports include fact-checked references other than jd, then i will concede. if, on the other hand, this is jd’s version of the story (told after volquez’s april epiphany) then i think it might potentially lack credibility…
kudos to jd for recognizing talent and doing whatever (he felt was) necessary to get the trade done.
hamilton is great, and we would be worse without him. (worse than our current fifth worst record? – not sure). i just hope that we can bring another cy young winner through the system in the next year or two to replace a talent that was wasted here – for whatever reason (referring to our inability to get the most out of him while on our staff – something that another team was able to do overnight).
i stand by my point that if EV was having this type season as a ranger he would have been untouchable going forward. further, the fault for this team not being able to get that talent from him is their own fault.
by sam in so cal on Jun 30, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Reports that came out at the time...
...indicated that the deal had been in the works for quite some time, and the hold up was whether the Rangers would include Volquez. Cincy wouldn’t make the deal without him.
I didn’t think that was really a contested point anymore.
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 30, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
thanks
i will retract my comments that insinuate otherwise.
by sam in so cal on Jun 30, 2008 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
well... he did pitch better last year than in previous stints...
...he made two bad pitches against the Tigers and lost that game…
he held the Angels to three runs in five or so innings on the road… pitched his way out of some jams that he probably wouldn’t have done otherwise in ‘06, or ‘05…
i think we were beginning to see his potential when he was called up last year…
we shouldn't trade with any team that has gotten the best of us?
really? even if it is different management?
Rare Gnats Sex
sell low
they might not sell low on bailey, but the rangers definitely have prospects to sell high on like a package featuring max ramirez, JMJ, and a low level arm, which would help the reds find a catcher of the future and help develop a younger outfield when griffey and dunn leave via trade or FA. If the reds want to do a salary dump with the rangers along with bailey, would you take on griffey, and more importantly, his salary with bailey for max ram, jmj, and a low level arm? I may be underestimating his griffey’s value as a player, but he is stuck in a major rut with his avg at 234 and slg at 385.
baseBALLIN!
I still think we
are in evaluation mode with our top-level talent. The mistakes we’ve made in the past with not knowing what we have yet before shipping them off, makes me think (and hope) we are going to be pretty gun-shy when it comes to a blockbuster with any of the Davis/Max/Hurley type prospects. The only prospect I think we can safely say we know what we have is Salty. I think he’s going to be a very serviceable catcher. Him and Bradley to the bosox for a starter is the only trade I’ve heard that makes sense for us this trade season. Next year though, is where I think we plug our holes.
Don't trade Salty..
Salty’ is the catcher of our future.. Keep Milton.. now a deal that involves Teagarden and Masterson would look good to me.
Well they might not have a choice..
They will be needing a catcher of the future, and the price for a good one isn’t cheap.
they might rather pay money instead of prospects
and they might just roll with the vet catchers for a while.
I don’t agree with OC but I’m just saying there are other options for them.
I do think one of those youngsters could be had but the Sox won’t be dealing from a position of weakness. We’ll probably be approaching them about Salty before they approach us.
Rare Gnats Sex
“I do think one of those youngsters could be had…”
maybe in the offseason… not right now…
i’m assuming that’s what you meant…
Red Sox
Are a pretty smart front office. They gave up young starters in the Beckett deal. Remember, one of them threw a no hitter. I think they’ll listen to any reasonable (emphasis on that one) offer. And I think they could certainly use a young catcher like a Teagarden or Salty.
dude... they were starting Bartolo Colon just a couple of weeks ago...
...they’re desperate for pitching… especially now that they’re chasing the Rays.
by oc on Jul 1, 2008 2:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Padilla Flotilla
I say trade him high… As well as he’s pitched, I dont trust him. I dont wan’t him on the mound in high pressure situations. If we ever make it to the playoffs, I wouldn’t look foward to seeing him on the mound.
‘
he
is the ONLY starter on the rangers i would trust in high-pressure situations. i forgot what the exact number was was but when people are in scoring position they are batting in the .100s against padilla
Kinsler is the best player on the rangers, BENOIT SUCKS, bring up Harrison
he's no good
his peripherals suck and he’s been lucky on the year.
W: "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
by hubcityraider on Jun 30, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I doubt that package gets it done. There's a lot of young pitching in Boston/Rays/NY.
I’m not sure I would do that package, because I have to look into Felix’s performance lately and because I’m smitten with CD, which is far better than VD.
CD >> DVD ???
If the Ms are really stupid, the Rangers should be able to get Felix for Padilla (or Millwood), Maximus, and JMJ rather than one of the power pack (Font, Feliz, Main, et al.) members.
Go Rangers!
how is
chris davis better than volquez and danks??? volquez leads the mlb in era and ks
Kinsler is the best player on the rangers, BENOIT SUCKS, bring up Harrison
you
get my point
Kinsler is the best player on the rangers, BENOIT SUCKS, bring up Harrison
both
ex-Rangers
Please forgive any and all typos, mispellings, etc.
Your kindess in this matter is appreciated.
by red shoe ranger on Jun 30, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'
I’ll give ya something.
1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"
~ The Immortal, BG
by inactive lsb user on Jun 30, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe not today. Maybe next year.
Volquez and Danks are having impact seasons this year. They may not have anymore impact seasons, though I would bet on Danks having a few more and being by far the best pitcher on the market when he hits FA.
The idea I’m toying with in my mind and that i’m throwing out there is whether CD could grow into an impact bat every year.
Go Rangers!
That's the point. The USS Mariner seems to think Ms management is clueless.
That would be a clueless trade return for Felix.
Go Rangers!
CNBC just had Tom Hicks on
I wasn’t paying attention though since i was reading this thread. I just heard “Thank you Tom Hicks for coming on today”.
Thanks for the insight.
Joe Morgan: (On Jay Bruce) I think he will. He brings energy to the team, and besides that, he is a pretty good hitter.
Ken Tremendous: I like that the #1 reason he will help his team is: "energy," and the distant #2 reason is: "ability to hit baseballs."
+2
"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'
I’ll give ya something.
1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"
~ The Immortal, BG
by inactive lsb user on Jun 30, 2008 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I would be scared of such a trade
Anyone learn anything from what happened in the Bedard trade? Bedard has been good but not great, while the M’s have had big holes that could have been nicely filled by the guys that are in Baltimore now.
Hold..
Keep Davis, Salty, Ramirez, Hurley, Mendoza, Bradley. Make Murphey, Laird, JMJ, Feldman, Padilla, everyday Eddie and Millwood available
Can't do it...
Unless we get an offer for a young stud pitcher, a #1, ex. Clayton Kershaw, can’t trade Bradley.
yeah
Leave it to us to crank out 100 comments in an hour on pure speculation.
Joe Morgan: (On Jay Bruce) I think he will. He brings energy to the team, and besides that, he is a pretty good hitter.
Ken Tremendous: I like that the #1 reason he will help his team is: "energy," and the distant #2 reason is: "ability to hit baseballs."
costly
Ryanand Daniels have both stated that the cost of acquiring pitching via FA or trade is “prohibitive.” They plan to develop their SP internally. Don’t expect any trade for King Felix or Bedard.
Brandon Boggs 2008 Texas Rangers ROY
Relax
It’s a theoretical. And yes it could well put the Rangers into 2009 contention, as described. Another not-so-theoretical is Felix, a ticking time bomb. Even if he stays healthy, no surprise if he assaults an umpire, trashes a dugout, or attacks a teammate, is it? If acquired, Bradley and Warner Madrigal would have to sit on him between starts.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Jun 30, 2008 11:58 AM CDT reply actions
That's a whopper for a Monday
I don’t know if I could do it until I know more about what Hurley is all about. It does appear that we’ll need to deal one of Davis, Max, Salty.
I dunno
I think you need to be on the cusp of contending to do a deal like this or be pushing for a division title. I just don’t think the Rangers are there so the more prospects the more better.
I’m trying to think of the last times a #1 starter made the difference. Was Schilling brought in on a trade by the D-Backs?
JD drinks the Angels milkshake.
Yes he was
For some reason I’m thinking Ricky Ledee was in the deal among others.
by Dirk Diggler on Jun 30, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
No sorry it was
Travis Lee. Lee, Omar Daal, our very own Padilla, and Nelson Figueroa.
by Dirk Diggler on Jun 30, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
heh
Well it’s better than my alma mater, the proud producer of Clay freaking Bellinger.
Ugh.
They even had a plaque devoted to him in the student union.
And, no, I’m not kidding about the plaque.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 30, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Dr. Phil and Robocop
Oh, we’re talking baseball players?
Nevermind.
Joe Morgan: (On Jay Bruce) I think he will. He brings energy to the team, and besides that, he is a pretty good hitter.
Ken Tremendous: I like that the #1 reason he will help his team is: "energy," and the distant #2 reason is: "ability to hit baseballs."
Well Barry Bonds
is probably the best baseball alum from my school. Hooray for me.
by Dirk Diggler on Jun 30, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Omar Daal
"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'
I’ll give ya something.
1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"
~ The Immortal, BG
by inactive lsb user on Jun 30, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I will be
heart broken if we traded Chris Davis but I wouldn’t mind Queen Felix on our staff though.
Chris Davis is a beast.
My answer: Yes, but I would hate it
This one o those deals that I’m kind of happy they (Seattle) wouldn’t make.
Cause if Seattle called you up and offered you this deal, you’d pretty much have to make it. But damn it would be agony for me if we had to trade Davis, Hurley, Diamond, and Kiker to freaking Seattle.
But, yah, if you can get F-Her for that package, you have to do it. Then you resign Bradley and sign Sheets and Pat Burell in the off season and you’re good to go in ‘09.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Well, probably not
I just don’t know what to think of Cahill. His results are incredible, but questions remain about his stuff and how it’ll translate to the higher levels.
Oh, and obviously his last name is objectionable (LSB humor, oh yah!).
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 30, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd do it
the team could use a Cahill.
"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain
Didn't you support John Kerry...
...because his campaign manager was Mary Beth Cahill?
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 30, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
if we trade him to a contender and he does well in the playoffs
i imagine he would want to stick around with that playoff team the next year.
Simple request...
Can yall stop calling him “king”?
Stop acting like M’s fans…
Its a pet peeve of mine, pisses me off.
"No bear or disco for Juan" - Mr. Santos
Banging chicks
At least in theory.
That hypothesis has yet to be tested.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jun 30, 2008 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Do I hear crickets, Miles?
"Typical woman. 'Give me' 'Give me' 'Give me'
I’ll give ya something.
1. A backhand
2. A stuffing
3. $500 if you promise never to post here again"
~ The Immortal, BG
by inactive lsb user on Jun 30, 2008 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Within the setup for this exercise is the following quote from DZ:
Felix’s best pitch isn’t his fastball, as we saw with Freddy, but over and over he chooses not to go with his best pitch to get outs, insisting on trying to throw the fastball. This year we’ve seen his game take a big step back in every way but the most widely accepted stats like ERA. I worry he’s not ever going to learn to harness his ability, and we’ll see exactly that Garcia path.
.
Yet the perception of Felix as a rising star is as strong as ever, and his superficially impressive stats make people drool.
I assume DZ knows Felix better than us, so why is his belief that his value will soon nosedive as his flaws reveal unimpressive boundaries not being taken into account?
DZ is sorta saying “Fleece the suckers while we can!”
Part of weighing this trade is determining who the sucker is in the deal. So, step 1 is … ask Mel Didier if he sees a little Brandon McCarthy in King Felix.
Not Legit
There’s a couple of reasons here why trading for The Little Prince wouldn’t make us legit in 2009:
1) If you gave up a Davis/Hurley/someone else in A ball package to get Hernandez, you’ve essentially only played Whack-A-Mole. You’re trading away another starter and the guy who looks right now to be the 1B of the future. So you’ve brought in a #1…and traded away a #3 and your starting 1B. How does that really improve you to the point of being legit contenders? All that looks like to me is that you’ve added a great pitcher with sky high potential but opened up voids at the back of your rotation and at 1B.
2) If this writer’s assessment of Hernandez’s pitching problems is spot on, he sounds like the kind of guy who needs a Leo Mazzone style pitching coach, not Mark Connor. My take on Hernandez is that he is cocky bordering on arrogant and that he has a nasty temper. I don’t think any of those things are bad for a guy who is, in theory, a #1. He’s a bulldog. Where that does become a problem is when you’ve got a guy with that temper and a milquetoast pitching coach like Connor. I can’t really see The Mark Connor Special (trot out to mound, clap hands three times, mumble something like “OK now, go get ‘em!” to the pitcher, slap the pitcher on the ass and then trot back to the dugout) helping an arrogant young pitcher become a legit #1 game in and game out.
In addition to those two things, I don’t see any way in hell the Mariners would trade him within the division. They know what it felt like to see A-Rod once he signed with the Rangers, so I really don’t think they want to see Hernandez that many times a year via a trade.
by Mister Naxal on Jun 30, 2008 2:17 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Why are we even discussing this at such length?
Felix isn’t gonna come here, and we would be stupid to trade a division rival so many good prospects. If we make a huge trade and unload a big package of prospects for one guy, I don’t want it to be an inter-division trade – because if it blows up on us, we’re just going to have helped the M’s win the division before we do.
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