The mess in Seattle
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 5, 2008 11:12 AM CDT
47 comments
Things are getting ugly in the Pacific Northwest. In fact, I'd argue that, as wretched as the first 2-3 months of 2007 were for the Rangers, it wasn't as bad then for Texas as it is now for the M's.
The M's have a team payroll that is a hair below $118 million.
They gave up significant young talent last offseason to acquire Erik Bedard, who is a free agent after 2009, because they were convinced they were in a position to win this year.
It is not a young team. The regulars and starting pitchers under the age of 29 are Jose Lopez, Yuniesky Betancourt, Wladimir Balentien (who recently replaced Brad Wilkerson in RF), and King Felix.
They are 13th in the A.L. in runs scored right now. They are 13th in the A.L. in runs allowed. They are 21-39 after 60 games, 15.5 games back.
The 2007 Rangers, after 60 games, were 21-39 and 16.5 games back.
(Incidentally, look who sponsors the 2008 M's B-R page).
How is management responding? Team president Chuck Armstrong torqued out at the coaching staff yesterday:
On Wednesday morning, about three hours before the game, Mariners president Chuck Armstrong could be heard from behind closed doors yelling loudly at McLaren and members of the coaching staff about the team's sorry state. He then stormed out of the clubhouse.
And after the game, manager John McLaren had this to say:
"We're playing our ass off every day and got nothing to show for it. I'm tired of (expletive) losing, I'm tired of getting my ass beat, and so are those guys. We've got to change this (expletive) around and get after it. And only we can do it.
"The fans are pissed off, and I'm pissed off, and the players are pissed off. And that's the way it is. There's no (expletive) easy way out of this. Can't feel sorry for ourself. Gotta (expletive) buckle it up and get after it.
"I'm tired of (expletive) losing (expletive) every night, and we bust our ass. It's got to be a total team (expletive) effort to turn this thing around, and that's it."
In a typical example of crap flowing downhill, the players were then ordered to take "public responsibility" for their lousy play, with a recent arrival calling out his teammates (again), and Ranger fans' favorite Mariner refusing to cooperate:
Bavasi ordered each of the 25 Mariners players to sit at his locker immediately after the game to take full responsibility publicly for having the worst record in the major leagues despite a $117 million payroll that is just below the richest in baseball.
"One thing in here is, I know everybody has to do their own job, but don't forget it's a team. A lot of people in here play for themselves," losing pitching Carlos Silva said after his sixth consecutive loss. "Like, 'If I get my two hits, it's OK. That's my day. I made my day.'
"It is happening here."
Slumping slugger Richie Sexson was conspicuously absent from his locker for the most of Bavasi's mandated postgame availability before breezing past his locker back into a private eating area and then boarding the bus that took the Mariners to their flight to Boston, an off day and then a weekend series.
What a fiasco out there. You have to feel badly for M's fans.
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I do
I often read Lookout Landing just to see how other people are suffering like I have. Not a spite thing, but a comfort in numbers thing.
The M’s are the AL West team that I think Rangers fans can relate to the most. Kind of a forgotten team in the big picture, and even when they are good it seems like everyone just expects them to lose. They are traditionally a star-centric team who falls short because of a few bad parts (like Texas). The only real difference is that hitting is usualyl their achilles heal, while we all know ours.
On the other hand, the A’s have a history of being good but boring, and the Angels are just kind of annoying overacheivers. Oakland and LAAAA also have a little bit of that California pseudo-West Coast Bias (the overcompensation by some for their east coast bias gives them more coverage than the M’s or us). Not as bad as the Giants (ugh/yawn/turn off the tv) or the Dodgers, but more than other West teams.
by JBImaknee on Jun 5, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do not either.
I’m a Rangers fan. Almost every team’s fans should feel sorry for me. I hope the Mariners never crack .500 again. Ever. Same goes for the A’s and Angels. Childish? Maybe. Honest? Absolutely.
by FuturePants on Jun 5, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice tag
The M’s are a disaster. They remind me of some of the Ranger teams from the early ‘90s when we built a roster around a bunch of guys who “could be good” and suddenly the whole was worth a lot less than sum of its parts.
I had a feeling that the M’s were in trouble when we went up there and held our own against them the first few games of the year. They should have come storming out of the gate behind the King and Bedard, instead they just puttered around. And they’ve just played the same way ever since.
I think it is time for them to let guys like Ichiro go.
by JBImaknee on Jun 5, 2008 11:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Too bad
They don’t have many pieces to trade off for a fire sale. This team is screwed for a long time…
Joe Morgan: (On Jay Bruce) I think he will. He brings energy to the team, and besides that, he is a pretty good hitter.
Ken Tremendous: I like that the #1 reason he will help his team is: "energy," and the distant #2 reason is: "ability to hit baseballs."
by TheBZA on Jun 5, 2008 11:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
I think Felix, Bedard, and Ichiro could bring back a nice haul but I agree for the most part they are screwed not only now but for the future as well barring a miracle
by bigsteve on Jun 5, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
But Ichiro and Felix are the two players I hold onto if I’m the Ms. As far as trading Bedard, they will get less than what they gave up for him, so it’s a net loss.
Who else? Putz? At the very least they need to get Morrow working in the rotation….
Joe Morgan: (On Jay Bruce) I think he will. He brings energy to the team, and besides that, he is a pretty good hitter.
Ken Tremendous: I like that the #1 reason he will help his team is: "energy," and the distant #2 reason is: "ability to hit baseballs."
by TheBZA on Jun 5, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why would they trade felix?
if anything they trade putz/bedard
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Jun 5, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
word from Jayson Stark
Felix isn’t signing a long term contract
by FirebatM3 on Jun 5, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im not saying they do
But TheBZA said they don’t have many pieces to trade off for a fire sale and I think they have a couple nice chips IF they so chose to trade.
by bigsteve on Jun 5, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said
I was excluding Ichiro and Felix from my statement, because I expect them to stay. Beyond them players with value are:
Putz
Morrow
Ibanez
Beltre
Problem is, that’s not too much of the massive payroll. No sense in trading off your cheap guys.
Joe Morgan: (On Jay Bruce) I think he will. He brings energy to the team, and besides that, he is a pretty good hitter.
Ken Tremendous: I like that the #1 reason he will help his team is: "energy," and the distant #2 reason is: "ability to hit baseballs."
by TheBZA on Jun 5, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bedard
you;d probably get something for him. Not nearly as much as you gave up for him, but you’d get something
by FirebatM3 on Jun 5, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah accidently left him off this time.
Like I said in my first post, net loss, but you could still get something.
Joe Morgan: (On Jay Bruce) I think he will. He brings energy to the team, and besides that, he is a pretty good hitter.
Ken Tremendous: I like that the #1 reason he will help his team is: "energy," and the distant #2 reason is: "ability to hit baseballs."
by TheBZA on Jun 5, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trading Pieces
Putz- A lot of people seem to think hes hurt. Check his #’s from last year to this year and watch him pitch. Something isn’t right.
Morrow- Why would they trade him? He was the 5th pick in 2006, making pennies, and isn’t even arbitration eligible until 2010. Not to mention he has pretty big upside and should definitely be starting.
Beltre- I guess you could trade him but you would be limited. He does have a partial no trade and his $12M next year is going to prevent some clubs from being interested.
White Women!
by nikpin on Jun 5, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh trust me, I agree
Just speaking from a trade value standpoint. Like I said:
No sense in trading off your cheap guys.
Joe Morgan: (On Jay Bruce) I think he will. He brings energy to the team, and besides that, he is a pretty good hitter.
Ken Tremendous: I like that the #1 reason he will help his team is: "energy," and the distant #2 reason is: "ability to hit baseballs."
by TheBZA on Jun 5, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ichiro
why not trade him?
That team isn’t winning in the next 2 or 3 years. By 2011 or 2012, Ichiro will be pretty old and not nearly the contributor he is now.
Sure he brings in fans, but he’s on the downslope. Certainly a team who wants to build a presence in Japan may be interested in acquiring him. Ichiro would bring as good a return as any player on that roster.
Now, will the Japanese ownership of the M’s trade the most famous Japanese player ever? No way. But I think they should
by JBImaknee on Jun 5, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of the M's
Harold Reynolds will be the M’s rep at the draft, which of course is televised by ESPN. Aaaawkwaaard! (Jim Sundberg and Mark McLemore will be there for the Rangers).
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080519&content_id=2730487&vkey=draft2008&fext=.jsp
JD drinks the Angels milkshake.
by WyoRanger on Jun 5, 2008 11:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Players only meeting
That will fix everything for the Mariners.
Let me have a diablo sandwich, a Dr. Pepper, and make it fast I'm in a God damned hurry!
by DaheelzCM on Jun 5, 2008 11:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Happily
I feel great about the M’s. F em.
Rangers > Nationals...for now
by RangerMoto on Jun 5, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I were a Mariner's Fan
I would get some rope and form a posse and go after Sexon, and hang him high as an example upside down. that dude is ripping the fans off, he should donate back 3/4s of his salary.
by SanDiegoKev on Jun 5, 2008 11:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
they better find a really lofty beam
Rangers > Nationals...for now
by RangerMoto on Jun 5, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny, I was just thinking
yesterday that both Bavasi and McLaren should be gone soon. The Mariners have not bottomed out, yet. Seems like they’re about where the Rangers were last year at this time.
...and curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid git.
by t ball on Jun 5, 2008 11:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I wish htis were happening
to the Angels or A’s now instead….
LSB's Facebook group ---> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288
by hinduplaya on Jun 5, 2008 11:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What?
Bavasi ordered each of the 25 Mariners players to sit at his locker immediately after the game to take full responsibility publicly for having the worst record in the major leagues despite a $117 million payroll that is just below the richest in baseball.
When I see the phrase “just below the richest in baseball” I am thinking that they are close to the highest payroll. That only holds true if you consider $90 million to be “just below”.
I see what he is saying but it seems to be worded poorly.
by baylor on Jun 5, 2008 12:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
dumb
They were dumb thinking they could compete with Richie Sexson, Adrian Beltre, Brad Wilkerson, and Jose Vidro at the three “big bat” positions. Last season was smoke and mirrors. Those who believed they would be contenders this year were deluding themselves.
"You’re the only here who contributes schtick only." - brettgardner
by trza on Jun 5, 2008 12:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Adrian Beltre is pretty good
Their pitching looked pretty good on paper, so it’s not completely ridiculous to think they would compete.
The front office seem to think their defense was going to be a “strong point” for some reason.
by Telegraph on Jun 5, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if by pretty good
You mean “not God awful”, then possibly. I mean, he’s not Sexson, Vidro, Wilkerson bad, but I’d say he’s below average for a third baseman, at least with the bat.
"You’re the only here who contributes schtick only." - brettgardner
by trza on Jun 5, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice one rev.
Gerald Laird is my hero.
by DSheppard on Jun 5, 2008 12:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
M's Fans
I don’t feel badly at all for those jerkbags. In many instances, they had thrown our homerun balls back. We don’t do that whenever they hit a HR in our ballpark. Rangers fans are the best. Unless it’s aimed at the Yankees or one of relief pitchers, we don’t do much booing.
I’m not glad they’re miserable but neither do I feel for them.
by chrisR on Jun 5, 2008 1:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
correction
the Yankees or one of OUR relief pitchers.
by chrisR on Jun 5, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Opposing home runs
Someone threw back Jack Cust’s home run on Sunday. It was awesome. I think they were aiming for Frankie Francisco.
"You’re the only here who contributes schtick only." - brettgardner
by trza on Jun 5, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Dellucci’s home run ball was thrown back yesterday. And Elizardo Ramirez was booed.
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 5, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I missed that HR. I watched one of the middle innings and then turned the tv off.
Like I said, most of the booing at RBIA is aimed at Yankees and our relievers.
by chrisR on Jun 5, 2008 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still trying to figure out
how some folks looked at that offense and figured that was a winning team. The overall weakness of that team and the A’s were big reasons I thought we had a chance to steal the division even with a mid-high 80 win team.
Sharky said it, I believe it, that settles it
by DJCahill on Jun 5, 2008 1:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's just a damn shame
the Angels aren’t cooperating with my vision :(
Sharky said it, I believe it, that settles it
by DJCahill on Jun 5, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I live in Washington. I deal with Ms fans.
I don’t feel sorry for them.
Especially those who didn’t believe me this was coming. The smart folks knew this was going to happen. They realized the Ms weren’t as good as the record showed last year, and were primed for a pretty nasty downfall. I got tons of crap on one of my boards both when I posted my predictions for the Mariners and PECOTA’s projections, and now I get to laugh.
I mean, I didn’t expect them to be this bad, but being a failure should surprise absolutely no one.
Mike Greenberg picked them to go to the World Series. I laughed then and I laugh even more now.
by philkid3 on Jun 5, 2008 2:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Feel bad for M's fans?
Hold on, let me try…
..... ..... .....
Um, nope, sorry. My give a damn must be busted re: the Morons (wait, that is what “M’s” stands for, right?)
by lonestarJon on Jun 5, 2008 3:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Can't feel bad for them...
It’s just not possible given all the shit Rangers fans have gone through.
I have recieved so much shit from fans of other teams in the AL West the last 8 years, screw ‘em.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Jun 6, 2008 1:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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