LSB Community Prospect Project: Mid-Season #8
by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 12:57 AM CDT
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PrintQUICK NOTE: It has been brought to my attention by several people that perhaps these polls are being left up too long. We seem to get a lot of great discussion right off the bat and the vote total gets up to about 200 pretty quick, but then things start to stagnate. So if we get a good vote turnout and I feel like the decision has already been made (in terms of there being a clear winner), I might start declaring these contest over and starting new polls a little bit quicker from now on. I'll still try to leave each poll up at least 12-14 hours, but I tend to agree that perhaps these could come a little quicker. So if you want to make super-duper sure your vote gets counted in each poll, make sure to check in regularly.
And now back to your regularly scheduled CPP programing.
After capturing 31% of 244 votes, Michael Main has won the right to be called the LSB Community #7 prospect!
The list so far:
1. 1b, Chris Davis
2. RHP, Neftali Feliz
3. RHP, Eric Hurley
4. SS, Elvis Andrus
5. C, Maximiliano Ramirez
6. 1b, Justin Smoak
7. RHP, Michael Main
Time to move on to the next vote.
The polls are open, so go ahead and vote in the poll at the bottom and feel free to make any suggestions and/or criticisms in the comments below.
And please don't hesitate to tell me you want on the list for next time.
NOTE: There has been some speculation as to what the criteria are for this vote. Should guys who are currently in the bigs be involved in "prospect" discussions? For the sake of this exercise we're taking what the guys have done in the big leagues and using the BA prospect formula of 130 AB's or 50 ip. If a guy is under those limits, he's still a prospect right now, so he goes on the list. It's that simple.
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Notable prospects tonight on the farm:
Engel Beltre: 3-5, with a HR and a double
C-Wun: 6ip, 5hits, 0bb, 0er, 1k. (His ability to dominate without striking people out is getting bizarre… In a wonderful way, of course.)
Borbon: 1-4, stole another base
Andrus: 1-3, stole 2 bases (33 on the season now)
Michael Schalct and Zach Phillips: Got. Freaking. Shelled.
Joaquin Arias: 1-3 with a homer and a freaking walk.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Arias – PCL All Star – late addition
Beltre’s HR tonight sounded like a true shot – no-doubter right off the bat.
He also made a nice running-reaching catch and had the ball pop out of his glove while colliding with the wall chasing down another. The CLN radio guy said the name “Maybin” was starting to be brought up around the ballpark in conjunction with Beltre’s prospecty goodness.
Beltre
The AVG is starting to get nice, he’s on about a 200-hit pace extrapolating to an MLB season.
But that dude just won’t walk.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jul 12, 2008 4:15 AM CDT up reply actions
BMac
Have you heard whether he’s rehabbing this weekend?
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jul 12, 2008 4:22 AM CDT up reply actions
May have
to throw Holland and Borbon in that mix as well.
by booyahcaveman on Jul 12, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions
+1
to me it’s not if, it’s when. I really hope he can push his way into the majors much like Ramirez and Davis did.
by booyahcaveman on Jul 12, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
no
Why? Is he better than Hamilon, Murphy, Boggs, Byrd or Bradley? Are ypu thinking Byrd and/or Bradley are not Rangers next year?
"An effortless 98" - Scott Gardner after Neftali Feliz's first AA pitch
Are you thinking Byrd and/or Bradley are not Rangers next year?
Yes, as are prolly 80% of the posters on this site. Byrd will most likely be flipped before the deadline, and if Milton isn’t, and by some minor miracle he comes back next season, he should play the field in a very limited role.
Have you seen Borbon play? He is very good, and coming on fast.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
Im thinking..
Borbon will be ready by midseason next year at latest…. thats all.
However it plays out.
I'm gonna go with Kiker here
I’ve been trying to talk myself into voting for Cap’n Wunnerful, but I’m frankly not that impressed with his lack of K’s and velocity. He may be doing well in Clinton despite that, but so far he has not been the strikeout/power pitcher he was advertised as. Plenty of time for him to get it back though.
I considered voting for Borbon briefly as well – I like im too, but I think the arms go above the speedy CF’s.
Kiker’s had his struggles in the CAL league this year, but he seems like he might be figuring it out – his last start was dynamite. It might have something to do with the whole short/scrappy/left-hander thing, but I’ve always liked his makeup.
"My keyboard is a Yankees fan" - Whipsmart
i wonder..
...if you moved names around how it would change the voting…
oh, and how is it we have whats regarded by a couple of writers as at least a top five catching prospect in all of baseball, and he’s not in our top 8??
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
Its the old what have you done for me lately
Not hitting as well as he did previously, defense doesnt make headlines, and we’ve got a lot of catchers.
He might be being overlooked a bit, but can you really say he is outright a better prospect than everyone else thats beaten him so far? There is certainly an argument for him, but theres an argument for main and beavan too. Top 10 in the rangers strong system = very good prospect.
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
There's that
And there’s also the shoulder problems he’s had this season that people no doubt have in the back of their minds. I think a lot of people are really wondering if TT will be durable enough to be a reliable everyday catcher over a number of seasons. That, combined with his dissapointing offensive production and the emergence of MaxRam in the Majors as a seemingly serviceable defender, has probably been what’s dropped his status as one of our “top prospects”.
Myself, I’ve always thought, even before we acquired Salty or Max, that Teagarden was a vastly overrated player (at least offensively) who would not be able to maintain the level of production, or prove durable enough to live up to his hype as a do-it-all Pudge clone. That doesn’t mean I think he’s a bad player, I just don’t think he’s ever going to be anything more than average or slightly above at best.
"My keyboard is a Yankees fan" - Whipsmart
understood...
...but i have to believe that when callis says he might be the second best catching prospect in baseball(behind weiters) and has preformed well enough in several levels of milb to warrant promotion, he shouldbe rated higher main(and smoak, since he hasn’t signed yet) and beaven, who despite their high ceilings at positions of need both have their own flaws as well… i don’t know where i saw it, but i know one ranking system has a ceiling number and a percentage grade for acheiving that number, and i’ve always thought that was the best way to evaluate and rank talent…
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
Overrated offensively?
I don’t know how you can say he was overrated when he’s always been known as a major-league ready defensive guy, and the bat was always a secondary skill. That he is drawing walks and has a little power is a plus, and for most, has been somewhat a surprise since he turned pro.
Last year may have given some folks false hope that he was also a top bat, and right now we’re seeing the disappointment that it isn’t so. None of that diminishes his standing as a top catching prospect, though. He still has a good shot at being a league average catcher with the bat, and a star defensively. If he does that, he is one of the best catchers in baseball. He is vastly underrated here at LSB right now. Health is the only concern I have.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
+2
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
Health is the only concern
but that is really a bigger concern than plate discipline, k-rates, or any other weakness that a prospect may have – because other weaknesses can be corrected. A guy that just can’t stay healthy isn’t likely to ever become an everyday ML catcher.
I think Will Carroll says that health is a tool, some guys have it, some don’t. But it is pretty unlikely that a player that can’t stay healthy in the minor leagues is all the sudden gonna be able to play a full ML schedule at the most demanding physical position.
Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.
health is my concern
Rich Harden was just traded for a bucket of baseballs because he can’t stay on the field. I can’t get excited about Teagarden when in the back of my mind I worry that he’ll max out as a backup catcher simply because he can’t play more than 4 times a week (his bat isn’t good enough yet to keep him in the lineup elsewhere)
My vote goes to Matt Harrison
I don’t know about anyone else, but I was greatly impressed by his line on Tuesday.
Well, I'm taking into account his success in the minors as well, of course
But 7 innings of 2-run, 5-hit ball in your big league debut also counts for something, in my opinion. I know the Angels aren’t the best offensive club in the world, but Harrison’s cool demeanor and ability to throw strikes really showed me how advanced a pitcher he is for his age. He may not be our best prospect, from the standpoint of pure stuff, but he’s proven a lot more than the kids still in low-A have so far (all due respect to them of course).
by BlackHawk125 on Jul 12, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Alright, which four of you voted for Mayberry?
Please stand up so that the rest of the class can see you…
Longhorn is one of them
At least, I’m guessing he is.
Not sure who the other 3 would be.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 12, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
I just checked
Longhorn has actually voted for Kiker in the last three polls.
"My keyboard is a Yankees fan" - Whipsmart
I'm pretty sure he's been voting Kiker since the very first poll
Maybe I’m wrong though.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions
How about.....
those that vote for a pitcher that can’t strike anyone out in low A stand up instead.
I'm assuming that comment was addressed to my vote...
I picked Beavan, despite the lack of strikeouts. We should all be very happy that Beavan is showing this kind of success with his new mechanics, despite losing some velocity. I was expecting more of a transition period for Beavan, who was not very polished coming out of high school. Now, we don’t have great explaination as to why he’s lost some velocity. He’s either holding back to improve his command or he’s still working out some issues with his new delivery. I’d also speculate that he’s been learning how to pitch to contact and improve his GB/FB ratio, which necessarily means laying off the high heat. Either way, in my eyes his performance has only helped his status as a prospect.
It’s a tough call between Beavan, Kiker, and Teagarden. If we were ranking prospects on a tier system, I would have said that Davis and Feliz are in Tier 1, Andrus, Ramirez, Hurley and Smoak are in Tier 2, and Main, Beavan, Kiker, Teagarden, and maybe Beltre are in Tier 3. Guys like Hunter, Harrison, Borbon, Duran, and Madrigal are in my next tier (guys who lack any star potential but are more likely to be solid major league contributors).
So why Beavan over Kiker and Teagarden? Well, our prospect list would look more consistent if Main and Beavan were ranked next to each other. That’s the way most lists have them, and neither one of them has done anything to merit seperation. Because Main went a couple of spots higher than he should have, I went ahead and voted for Beavan and Main to be ranked next to each other. It’s a stupid reason, but I’m ok with it.
I'm debating between Kiker and Borbon
But will go Kiker this time around. They have both done everything I could have wanted them to do, but Kiker has been doing it a little longer and from the mound. And while some people think he’s too small to be successful, that doesn’t fly with me, because I’m short and so is Roy Oswalt (relatively)...
Kiker
Should get this spot. After all he was our number one pick in 2006 and holding his own in High A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXWLfIgc0nA
+1
And he’s done so while working on things. He’s significantly lowered his BB’s while inducing a ton more groundball outs than last year. I wish the K’s were higher, but it’s not like the K totals are bad this year or anything. I think he’s just getting the standard Cal league dip in perceived value that most pitchers get when they’re sent to Bakersfield.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
lowering BBs
Hasn’t that been the general theme for most the minor league pitchers?
"An effortless 98" - Scott Gardner after Neftali Feliz's first AA pitch
Can anyone comment on the defense of the Bakersfield team?
I only get the radio feed, so I don’t have a clear idea. It does seem like the BABIPs for the pitchers on the team are all somewhat high.
Here is the debut of dstar's top 25
Even though I know most of you could care less… here it is…. I revised it yesterday:
1. Chris Davis
2. Neftali Feliz
3. Max Ramirez
4. Matt Harrison
5. Eric Hurley
6. Justin Smoak
7. Elvis Andrus
8. Tommy Hunter
9. Michael Main
10. Derek Holland
11. Kasey Kiker
12. Blake Beavan
13. Warner Madrigal
14. Julio Borbon
15. Taylor Teagarden
16. Neil Ramirez
17. Jose Vallejo
18. Marcus Lemon
19. German Duran
20. Engel Beltre
21. Kennil Gomez
22. Martin Perez
23. John Mayberry Jr.
24. Omar Poveda
25. Fabio Castillo
Honorable Mentions(Just off the list): Andrew Laughter, Beau Jones
Warner Madrigal is the Rangers most underrated prospect by a longshot; he SHOULD be be closing games within 3 years IMO. Matt Harrison is underrated too.
wait
let me change that opening sentence for you grammer-heads care more.
Warner Madrigal is the Rangers most underrated prospect by a longshot; he SHOULD be be closing games within 3 years IMO. Matt Harrison is underrated too.
Harrison
Way to high IMO. Hurley to high as well.
by groundingout on Jul 12, 2008 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Harrison
I’m really high on a guy with an ERA constantly under 3.7.
Warner Madrigal is the Rangers most underrated prospect by a longshot; he SHOULD be be closing games within 3 years IMO. Matt Harrison is underrated too.
tommy hunter is good and all
but he shouldnt be in the top ten
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXWLfIgc0nA
in my rankings
I combine two areas which I call the “Will/Should Do” and the “Could Do”. Tommy Hunter and Matt Harrison are already at the top of the “Will/Should Do” and have plenty of “Could Do” that I think you guys may look over. How can a guy, Matt Harrison, with an ERA in the minors constantly under 3.7 do that much different in the majors. Last I checked, if he had an ERA under 3.7 for Texas he would be one of our best Starters ever, and there is no reason he can’t do that.
In my rankings, as one can tell, I pay more attention to the Will Do than most on LSB do.
Warner Madrigal is the Rangers most underrated prospect by a longshot; he SHOULD be be closing games within 3 years IMO. Matt Harrison is underrated too.
How is Teagarden getting so much love?
a lot of people I guess are still looking at his performance from last season rather than this year. He’s still striking out way too much, isn’t making good contact, and is showing little power in addition to still having injury problems.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
oh
and Beaven all the way. The K rate will come. What is amazing is he is almost never walking hitters. He is only 19 now and is doing great in his first professional season.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
the
whole never walking hitters while giving up too many HR’s in A ball is discouraging to me personally.
Warner Madrigal is the Rangers most underrated prospect by a longshot; he SHOULD be be closing games within 3 years IMO. Matt Harrison is underrated too.
he doesn't give up too many HRs really
He’s averaging just over a home run per 9 innings. I’d like for it to be lower, but that isn’t bad at all
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
it's
his defense compared to our current young catchers. It makes them overlook the unpredictable bat.
Warner Madrigal is the Rangers most underrated prospect by a longshot; he SHOULD be be closing games within 3 years IMO. Matt Harrison is underrated too.
its pretty predictable
He isn’t that good of a hitter. He had a great year in Bakersfield, a hitter friendly league he was too old for, but still struck out too much and that showed in his promotion to Frisco though he was still very good there. Now this year, he is continuing striking out way too much and is looking like a guy who will struggle to do much at the Major League level. His continuous injury issues also prevent him from being anything more than a back-up catcher IMO even if his defense is amazing.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
teagarden
one thing i take into account when talking player rankings is what would they net in a trade, and i believe many teams would LOVE teagarden and he could get a higher return than a guy like harrison.
If tea had been healthy all this season and last i think we’d likely be arguing about him being in the top 5-7 more than we are
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Well I'm arguing for Beavan
and can’t understand anyone not wanting to trade Teagarden for Beavan.
If Teagarden had been healthy, I can understand the argument for him right here. But he hasn’t been fully healthy for the past few years. That’s like saying if McCarthy hadn’t been injured these past 2 seasons, everyone would love the Danks trade.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Familiarity
No one has seen Martin Perez or Derek Holland (or heard of them before last year) but they have a chance to make a far bigger impact than everyone’s favorite UT alum.
by Baider on Jul 12, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
They also have a much greater chance of failing spectacularly and never drinking so much as a single cup of big league joe
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
That implies Teagarden doesn't have risk
Signficant risk in both health and bat. I’ll take a little extra risk for a bigger upside – think Holland and Perez have chance to be upper rotation lefties with big stuff and command.
by Baider on Jul 12, 2008 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Teagarden
When healthy he’s a plus-plus defender at a meaningful defensive position, he has decent sock, and despite his struggles making contact so far this season, he’s still got a 14.2% walk-rate and a .766 obp.
He’s much more likely to see the batting average rise than stay at that current low level, imo, and once it does you’re looking at a guy who projects as an “Adam Dunn with about 20-25 less HR’s a season” kind of guy, which is very valuable if you can combine that with GG defense behind the dish. .250/.375/.425 isn’t out of the question with him, imo.
The health and the K’s are the only thing keeping him from being truly elite.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Also
he has a .302 BABIP. That’s slightly above average. If anything, he is likely to see his BA fall some more if he isn’t able to make better contact with the ball. Adam Dunn with about 20-25 less HRs a season is awful. What makes him so valuable as a hitter is that he takes a lot of walks (more than Teagarden) AND hits for a lot of power. He wouldn’t be anything as a hitter if he only had 15-20 HR power.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
BABIP
Major league BABIP averages are usually in the .280-.310 range. I believe the average BABIP in the PCL is in the .320-.325 range. (.322 in ‘07)
Teagarden’s BABIP is slightly below league average.
thanks for that information
That doesn’t change my opinion too much, but it just means that I don’t expect his BA to drop any more.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Well we disagree then
I think a GG catcher who hits .250/.375/.425 with 15-20hrs is very, very freaking valuable, even if he K’s a ton.
FWIW, Dunn’s career BB% is 17%, while this year Teagarden’s is right at about 15%. I guess technically you’re correct that he does walk more than Teagarden, but it’s pretty close.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
as valuable
as a solid #2 or 3 (Matt Harrison)??
Warner Madrigal is the Rangers most underrated prospect by a longshot; he SHOULD be be closing games within 3 years IMO. Matt Harrison is underrated too.
Leaders by position
In a cusory overview of the last two years, TeaBag’s numbers as projected by dirkatron would put him in the top 10-11 for BA, and amongst the top 5 in OBP. The MLB leader in BBs among catchers, Mauer, has a 17% walk rate.
Hmmm…
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
Dunn
has a career .381 OBP in the Majors. Teagarden is at .354 in AAA this season. You’re expecting Teagarden to not have any decline at all in his minor league production when he goes to the Majors if you think that he will be able to get to .375.
And I don’t think that a GG catcher who hits .250/.375/.425 is as valuable as a top of the rotation pitcher like Beavan. And as I’ve said already, I think you are being very optimistic with what Teagarden will do in the Majors. Hitters who can’t make contact in the minors don’t improve that contact rate in the Majors much and those with little power are very less likely to get that many walks.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Harrison, Holland, Perez, Borbon
My next 4. Ahead of Beavan, my opinion.
by Baider on Jul 12, 2008 2:40 PM CDT reply actions
wow
holland ahead of beavan?
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Jul 12, 2008 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions
In my opinion, yes
Love Holland’s stuff and success. Somewhat concerned with Beavan’s velocity and low K rate, and he’s always had a delivery scouts question.
by Baider on Jul 12, 2008 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions
If C-Wun didn't rework
his delivery, he would still have the velo & the Ks. Get it?
Just give him some time…
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
So you are thinking that
with his new delivery, he’ll add back the velocity in time? That’s the part that I worry about.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 12, 2008 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I really have no idea, honestly.
But, at this point, we’ve got to trust the developmental people, don’t we? Given the quick ascention of several pitching prospects lately, I’d have to say someone in the org. knows what they are doing with young pitchers.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
I don't think that
anyone can really predict that velocity will belatedly return after a mechanical change months ago, even industry experts.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 12, 2008 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Kiker
He experienced a similar velo dip in the first half of the ‘07 season. He was throwing 97 mph by the end of the year.
Beavan probably won’t be throwing that hard, especially when the majority of his fastballs have been two-seamers. But I wouldn’t be surprised to see his velocity increase as the season continues.
I don’t think the mechanical issues are the main culprit for the velo slump.
I don’t think the mechanical issues are the main culprit for the velo slump.
Flesh that one out a little, JP.
Is he just adjusting to how shitty A ball is? Is he hurt? Did he change his orientation, and get in touch with his softer side?
Come on!
/Douggie
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
Beavan's velo
I think it has more to do with his adjustment to professional baseball than any one mechanical issue. I recommend you read his interview with Jason Cole. He describes in detail about his loss of velo.
http://rangers.scout.com/2/765449.html
I also quote that interview along with some soapbox related commentary in my latest article. Click my sig.
Ah, ok
I read Jason’s story, and I already read your sig story. Thanks for the insight.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
Captain Wonderful is
the nickname Beaven gave himself…C-Wun for short on LSB.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
Ha ha ha
He so did not give himself that nickname.
He’s not that egotistic.
That would be freaking hilarious if he had though.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions
but he does throw the best fastball he’s ever seen
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Oh, he earned the nickname for sure
but if he’d actually dubbed himself “Captain Wonderful” that might’ve been the funniest thing in the history of the world. Especially if he busted it out via the third person.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions
"C-Wun don't strike nobody out, C-Wun do work"
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
that's just slander
he’s thrown the best slider he’s ever seen
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Yeah, rentz is
not up on things as much lately. Maybe he has – gasp – a real life!
;)
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
I try dirkatron, I try
More of this :-) is good!
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
i went with kiker
but a combo of teagarden, beavan, martin perez, engel beltre next
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
why
do y’all hate Matt Harrison?!
Warner Madrigal is the Rangers most underrated prospect by a longshot; he SHOULD be be closing games within 3 years IMO. Matt Harrison is underrated too.
I don't think anyone hate Harrison
strong word. They just like other guys better. I’ll vote for Harrison soon, but not yet.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
harrison
exactly. i don’t dislike him , quite the opposite. But he just doesn’t rank this high for me. One solid ml outing doesn’t mean a guy jumps into the top 10
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Its more than one solid ML outting
What about having ERAs under 4 at every level of the minors except one. And that on was 4.09. Hes been young for every level hes played at and has made the bigs, with good results so far, at the age of 22.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
ERAs are overrated
I like Harrison a lot and think he will be a very good number 3 in the Majors with seasons where he looks better than that. If I was ranking him before last season, he would be right there with Hurley for me. I just lean more towards production and potential with other guys like Kiker, Main, Beavan, etc.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
ignore
the start. Look at his Minors numbers!
Warner Madrigal is the Rangers most underrated prospect by a longshot; he SHOULD be be closing games within 3 years IMO. Matt Harrison is underrated too.
o shit forgot him
it will probably be
harrison, teagarden/beavan, beltre/perez
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Jul 12, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Catchers and offense
I am baffled by a couple of things in the comments about Teagarden:
1. A lot of you seem to think that Teagarden is a disappointment offensively, perhaps remembering his stellar 2007 at the plate. That season probably raised some false hopes. Teagarden was never considered a stud at the plate before being drafted. He was considered major league ready as a catcher, but not much of a bat.
2. I think several of you have unrealistic expectations of offense from the catcher position.
Maybe we were all spoiled by several years of Pudge, but folks, a .750 OPS from a catcher is GOOD. Teagarden has a .766 OPS right now, walks a lot, and has more than enough power for a catcher. Yes, even with a .238 batting average he is valuable. All of that is to say that if you have a catcher with outstanding defense, AND he has average or better offensive skills, you have a star, core player.
If this guy stays healthy, he will be very valuable. Like Ian Kinsler valuable.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
really
kinsler?
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Jul 12, 2008 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes
If he’s healthy, continues to walk in about 15% of his at bats with an ISOP in the .175-.200 range and becomes the top notch defensive backstop everyone thinks he is, yep. How many catchers are average or above offensively while also being well known for framing pitches and game calling?
Still, it might be better if I worded it thusly: If this guy stays healthy, he has a chance to be very valuable, like Ian Kinsler valuable.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
Wrong
it’s .767, heh!
Also, only 4 catchers in MLB have an OPS over .750.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
Hmmm... Really?
I would guess off the top of my pretty little head: Russell Martin, Joe Mauer, Geo Soto, and Doumit?
Though I’m guessing quite a few more guys would be in there if they had enough AB’s to qualify- Posada, V-Mart, maybe even Laird.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know where you looked that up, but many, many catchers have an OPS over .750
due to the nature of catching and how many days off they get a lot of them must not qualify for the batting race or whatever, cause the following C’s all have an OPS over .750 and a significant number of AB’s:
.900+: Doumit, McCann, Ianetta
.850-.899: Soto, Mauer
.800-.849: Martin, Coste
.750-.799: Laird, Posada, Barajas, Napoli, Snyder, Shoppach, Navarro, Olivio, Flores, Pierzinski
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Yahoo
& yes, it’s qualified.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/byposition
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
Gotcha
Catcher is a position where it’s tough to go by qualifiers cause even when they’re healthy they often sit twice a week.
I had a nice laugh at the fact that Yahoo thinks Daric Barton is still a catcher… and that he still rates last at that position. What a huge disappointment he’s been so far.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions
It is good in comparison
but I’m voting for these guys based on solo impact to the game and not relative to their positions.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
It means
that I’m not voting for the guy who is best relative to his position. I’m voting who I think is the best player. A .750 OPS and great defense for a catcher is not better than a top of the rotation pitcher.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
That's crazy
If your team has a better catcher who is better defensively than most other team’s catchers, AND he is average with the bat or better, that’s not impact?
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
So a good defensive 1b and a good defensive SS get the same bump from defensive value in your book?
That’s crazy as hell.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I said absolutely nothing like that.
I was responding to talk about a .750 OPS from a catcher being good enough to vote for him higher than I would for a great pitching prospect.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I didn't vote for Tea
at #8, I was just trying to stem the tide of hate.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
heh
Me too.
I’ve been a Kiker man for a while now.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 13, 2008 2:00 AM CDT up reply actions
heres my issue with catcher/1b
right now we have
gerry laird
max ramirez
jerrod saltalphabet
taylor teagarden
based on his defense i would think teagarden has SO little value anywhere but starting catcher (based on his defense)
that leaves:
laird
salty
maxram
now i would think they can get maxram enough AB between 1b/DH/C to keep him at the major league level
but what do you do with salty and laird?
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
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