NY Times piece on Hamilton and Bradley

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 12, 2008 9:41 PM CDT Comment 73 comments

The New York Times has a piece up on Josh Hamilton and Milton Bradley, and the disparate ways they are viewed by the public at large...

Of particular note, I think, is Eddie Guardado and Michael Young both coming out and saying that Bradley's race is a factor in the way he is perceived and portrayed in the media...

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Read More: milton bradley, josh hamilton

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about to read the stories, but an OT question real quick..

AJM when do you think we will see hunter? im very impressed by his line tonight.

the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is

by DSheppard on Jul 12, 2008 9:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

after

we ship Millwood for some rosin bags.

Warner Madrigal is the Rangers most underrated prospect by a longshot; he SHOULD be be closing games within 3 years IMO. Matt Harrison is underrated too.

by dstar442005 on Jul 12, 2008 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Either August, 2008

Or June, 2009.

I’d put it 80/20 on the latter.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 12, 2008 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you say June of next year

because he won’t win a job in spring training, or because of service time considerations?

Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.

by tricer on Jul 12, 2008 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because there are

several people ahead of him in line and he’s still moving very quickly if he comes up then.

If everyone is healthy you have Millwood, Padilla (assuming neither is dealt), McCarthy, Hurley, Feldman, Gabbard, Mendoza, Harrison, and Murray all vying for a spot. And, depending on how he bounces back from his foot problem, maybe Diamond. Even if Milly or Padilla is traded, that’s 9 guys, and that’s assuming there are no offseason signings or trades for a starter (something I think is likely). Hunter will likely have an opportunity, but it certainly would do no harm to let him polish up a bit in OKC early next year.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 13, 2008 5:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

awesome story

pretty cool video interview embedded in the link as well.

I’m really starting to think that so long as Texas makes an offer that is in the ballpark of other teams, Milton will sign LT. I think he really likes it here, and more importantly, I think he’s finding out that that is important.

Plus, I’m sure the pushover DFW media keeps it easy on him.

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Jul 12, 2008 9:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Nice story

I sympathize with Bradley, even though he brings a lot of that on himself. Not everyone is comfortable being a public figure, and being a celebrity of any kind comes with a price.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 12, 2008 10:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Good public boost piece

You know, I wouldn’t call my support for Bradley sympathy. I think instead I’d tolerate a little more angst and fire from him than most, while not liking the dust kicked up. I hate to call up the long time fan thing, but I will for this. In sixty years of following MLB, I’ve seen players, coaches and managers called “fiery” or “temperamental”. You know who they are. I’ve seen others called “disruptive” or “out of control”. You also know who they are. Stereotypes die really hard.

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Jul 12, 2008 10:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Bradley definitely gets a ridiculously high number of bad strike calls.

by Athos on Jul 12, 2008 10:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i think he does have a bias against him

but its really amplified by his patient nature. He takes so many pitches in 2 strike counts that there are so many more chances to ring him up then there is for most hitters.

thats by no means a criticism of his approach though. unlike a wilkerson or various other guys who see a lot of pitches, he has legitimately excellent strike zone judgement. which makes that ball being called a strike all the more frustrating. he didnt decide to just take the pitch and see what happens, he was good enough to lay off.

the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is

by DSheppard on Jul 12, 2008 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pretty good indication of the mood of the clubhouse

It’s hard to rate chemistry and some people on here hate even bringing it up but I think it has had to have played a part in the turnaround.

There was a game a couple of weeks ago I watched in which Bradley didn’t play. We won and the team was doing the high-five thing and Bradley was out there encouraging, laughing, smiling. I just remember thinking that it was pretty cool to have a player signed to a one-year contract, playing on a team in 3rd place, and didn’t even play in the game, be out there looking like a great teammate. Not to mention a player with a less than rosy reputation.

I’d love for the Rangers to get some prospects for him but I’m definitely shifting to the “sign him to a 3-year deal” camp…

by BombDiggity on Jul 12, 2008 10:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I have similar feelings

Another anecdote along those lines was when Laird hurt his leg. Laird was sprawled on the ground and the trainer and Wash came out and he finally started to try and limp towards the dugout leaning on the trainer. Bradley comes sprinting out of the dugout to give his teammate a shoulder to lean on. For some reason that moment really stood out for me and made me think that he might be worth signing, rather than flpping for prospects.

Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.

by tricer on Jul 12, 2008 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Playing the race card there is so damn stupid, imo

Do those mouth-breathing dolts really think had done the things MOB has done that he’d be revered as “fiery” rather than labeled as unstable?

Bull. Freaking. Spit.

I love MOB and was advocating trying to bring him in here from the second he hit the market, but there were genuine concerns about his ability to keep his emotions in check.

People who play the race card in cases like this only do so because they’re weak of mind and know they don’t have any sound logic to back them up, so they fall back on what’s easy, even if it’s not right.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 10:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

two words:

...Mike Winters…

that was as recent as last September.

by oc on Jul 12, 2008 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know who that is

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

...the ump who baited Milton in San Diego.

by oc on Jul 12, 2008 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What of it?

You think that would’ve been viewed differently if he was white?

Or did he bait him with racially inflammatory remarks? I never heard exactly what the ump was supposed to have said. And if so, wouldn’t that make Milton appear to the public as a lot more sympathetic in the matter, rather than tarnishing him?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think...

it was specifically reported that the remarks were of a racial nature.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Jul 12, 2008 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay

But how to view that in the context of my apparently controversial comments above about how people put far too much emphasis on how minorities are viewed in the media due solely to their race?

Do you think that a black man who was baited into a confrontation by an ump who used racially inflammatory words was viewed more negatively by the media than it would have been if a white player had been baited by an ump using racially inflammatory speech?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't have an opinion...

I was just saying.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Jul 12, 2008 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

this is exactly the problem...

...when you start worrying about what the media thinks… or what the masses think…

this is exactly why Milton views the world the way that he does, and why he’s pidgeonholed inside of it.

the dude built a bad reputation for himself… he knows it. he’s trying his best to overcome that. but it doesn’t help when you have umpires yelling racial slurs at you… or when a broadcaster calls you out in front of the masses…

it’s all negative. negativity is the fuel to the media fire.

now, what’s positive? how about trying to raise a two year-old son… giving him the support that Milton never had.

shit… i didn’t even know Milton was a father until i read this.

by oc on Jul 13, 2008 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

.. If it bleeds, it leads ..

"I’ll say something that doesn’t need context: anyone who is a Mariner’s fan is a douchebag." - FuturePants

by Chase Irwin on Jul 13, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

naive

"I really think JD is probably going to be one of the best things ever to happen to the Rangers." - Longhorn, May 27th, 2007

by Longhorn on Jul 12, 2008 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the insight as always

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh, you need help?

sorry, here…

"I really think JD is probably going to be one of the best things ever to happen to the Rangers." - Longhorn, May 27th, 2007

by Longhorn on Jul 13, 2008 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

You are anti-clever.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 13, 2008 1:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and

you are a self-proclaimed bigot.

"I really think JD is probably going to be one of the best things ever to happen to the Rangers." - Longhorn, May 27th, 2007

by Longhorn on Jul 13, 2008 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ugh. A new low,

Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .

by Brian Thomas on Jul 14, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe a pretty good comp would be AJ Pierzynski

I guess him and MOB have had a similar amount of craziness and volatility in the past.

Is the media any kinder or harsher of AJP? I don’t know, just asking.

Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.

by tricer on Jul 12, 2008 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pierzynski gets calls to come on Rome, Best Damn...

...Bradley doesn’t.

whether that’s because he refuses the media, or because the media doesn’t reach out to him… i couldn’t tell you.

by oc on Jul 12, 2008 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Apples and oranges, imo

Pierzynski is an ass, and many people within the game supposedly really dislike him.

But I don’t know that he’s ever flipped out on fans in the middle of a game in full view of cameras, or clashed with a coach to the point where the team suspended him, sent him home, and then traded him for pennies on the dollar, or that he hears that a commentator spoke ill of him and burst out of the locker room to go find the guy.

The difference between being mentally unbalanced with presumed emotional problems and being an unlikable jackass is pretty clear, imo.

I just think when people say things like , “OMG, if he was white, none of this would be an issue” they’re just being lazy and stupid.

But maybe I just like to think people in this day and age are better than that.

Maybe y’all are right and Milton would be revered on an Ecksteinian level if he was white. I just don’t believe it to be so.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's like

you can read my mind.

by Anonymous New Guy on Jul 14, 2008 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Give me a break

This is incredibly naive.

by jthig32 on Jul 12, 2008 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How so?

I don’t think it’s “incredibly naive” to say the race card is overplayed and that dumb/intellectually lazy people often use it as an easy excuse for things they don’t understand.

Explain to me how it is.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the race card is overplayed...

...that doesn’t mean that every circumstance in which it’s played isn’t justified.

by oc on Jul 12, 2008 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't mean to imply that it was

Racism very much exists.

I just think there are so many instances where people try to blame all their problems on this supposedly prevalent negative slant toward minorities in America when in most of those instances there are perfectly reasonable reasons those people are viewed negatively that have nothing to do with race.

Not saying it doesn’t exist in some form, I just get tired of people constantly falling back on it as a crutch.

Like when Jose Canseco tried to blame his negative perception in the public on the fact that he was Cuban. Yah, Jose. That must be it.

Or when ARod wondered aloud that maybe everyone reviles him because he’s Latino. Yup. Nail on the head, ARod.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well... it's not going away anytime soon...

...so bitching about it is about as fruitful as bitching about the McCarthy trade.

by oc on Jul 12, 2008 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

I wasn’t trying to bitch about racism.

I was trying to bitch about people using racism as a scapegoat for all their problems.

Maybe I didn’t do a good job articulating my point.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 13, 2008 1:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i stared at my screen for 30 minutes trying to think of a response...

...i agree with everything you’re saying.

i get just as annoyed as you do when the race card is played… ...and i’m Hispanic / Italian.

but, i can’t overlook it.

Josh’s story will always be “a better story”... not because he’s white… but because he doesn’t have a grudge with the media. he hasn’t pissed off Major League officials… not yet, anyway.

the media, meanwhile, already has their pre-determined image of Milton… the umpires too. and they’ve done very little to change that perception… even as Milton has tried to do better over the past couple of years.

is it because he’s black?... i couldn’t tell you.

but, i certainly think Milton has every right to be suspicious of Major League officials after what happened with Winters. the fact that Michael Young and Josh Hamilton (two white athletes) were the ones who put that out on the table… indicates, at the very least, that there may be more to this problem than we the public (or they the media) know about.

...you just can’t look past that.

by oc on Jul 13, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

what has milton done to deserve the reputation he gets

give me a straight up answer

Kinsler is the best player on the rangers(done), BENOIT SUCKS(done), bring up Harrison(done),new: Put Nippert in rotation, Mendoza to the pen, get Feliz to AAA by the end of the year, trade cat

by nice hands on Jul 13, 2008 12:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

he poked an umpire in the mask during a fall league game a year after being drafted, and he spit on another in Double-A the following season.

he sparred with his Triple-A manager and Expos manager Jeff Torborg in ‘01.

he got in a lot of spats with Eric Wedge in Cleveland.

by oc on Jul 13, 2008 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

The Cleveland thing was a real bad mark on his career. And the now infamous bottle throwing at the feet of the fans thing.

Honestly I think it’s all blown out of proportion, but I think that’s just the scandal-driven newsworld we live in.

I guess I just take umbrage when people are so quick to blame everything on how everyone is just so darn racist.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 13, 2008 1:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and look at what Hamilton has done

I brought this up a while back too. I love watching Hamilton play and think he is a great story, but its crazy how much love a former drug addict who pissed away his millions and his career and nearly killed himself and put his family in harm’s way can get while Bradley gets crap because he has an anger issue that has bitten him in the ass a few times before.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jul 13, 2008 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is what gets me

...and the article points it out too. Hamilton actually committed a crime, but we glorify him.

I kind of ride the fence on this. I think it’s a lot easier to label an angry guy “militant” if he’s black as opposed to being white. Is that the case here with Milton? It’s hard to say. I certainly don’t think Michael’s or Eddie’s comments were severely out of line in this regard. The dichotomy of Josh’s and Milton’s situations definitely make the media’s attitudes towards Milton questionable at best.

by jwiscarson on Jul 13, 2008 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+ 1

Miltons reputation based on his past run-ins is incontrovertible.
BUT
He is older and more mature now and seems to have learned from his past mistakes and is doing pretty well in that department so far this year, MINUS the running up to the booth incident which was inexcusable. I didn’t buy into I just wanted to have a chat bit.
I say give the guy a chance unless theres another such incident then maybe he hasn’t learned after all.

Last week Arod and Cynthia were huge news in NYC.
This week they are huge national news.
The power of Miles, the child prodigy, catch it!!!!

by LAMuscleFag on Jul 13, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So..

What it comes down to is you feel you are intellectually superior to this writer, and understand better than he does the ways for the world.

You also understand the way athletes and the media interact better then Eddie, Mike Young, and Hamilton.

Ok.

by jthig32 on Jul 13, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

you got all that out of his post?

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 13, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

-2

"I’ll say something that doesn’t need context: anyone who is a Mariner’s fan is a douchebag." - FuturePants

by Chase Irwin on Jul 13, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Weak

Why don’t you explain your take on the story, not straw man his?

Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .

by Brian Thomas on Jul 13, 2008 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Young and Hamilton

were the ones saying it was a race thing.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jul 12, 2008 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Young and Guardado

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um...

"If it was a white guy in his situation, what would they be saying?" Hamilton said.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Jul 12, 2008 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay

Sorry, missed that quote.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 12, 2008 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

brillant.

How's Dshep's ass taste?

by iorange555 on Jul 12, 2008 10:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

eh left out an i

How's Dshep's ass taste?

by iorange555 on Jul 12, 2008 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nice pub I love it

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jul 12, 2008 11:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i admit

im beginning to become attached to milton bradley.

the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is

by DSheppard on Jul 13, 2008 1:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

me too, as I stated above

the only troubling thing is that with Bradley on board I don’t know where Max is going to be able to play, since they both fit best at DH.

Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.

by tricer on Jul 13, 2008 1:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i hope the rangers don't trade milton.

How's Dshep's ass taste?

by iorange555 on Jul 13, 2008 1:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Unless the package knocks JD’s socks off and blows them across the room… hold on to the guy and get his signature on an extension, pronto.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 13, 2008 1:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ramirez as your back-up C

and part time DH when Bradley plays in the field and gives someone else a rest.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jul 13, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am more than ok

with signing Boardgame and Hamilton to LT deals and having them sign the contracts together on the same day with FOTF and Kinsler smiling right behind them.

by texasraider on Jul 13, 2008 5:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

how can anyone not like him?

by SteveP on Jul 13, 2008 8:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Who?

Let me have a diablo sandwich, a Dr. Pepper, and make it fast I'm in a God damned hurry!

by DaheelzCM on Jul 13, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Boooo

Good PR for Milton only hurts the Rangers at this point. Until he signs an extension, it doesn’t serve the Rangers well to try to rehabilitate Milton’s reputation.

Consider:

Two general managers, who requested anonymity because their comments could run afoul of baseball’s tampering rules, said they wanted to acquire Bradley the last two seasons but did not because they felt they could not take the public-relations risk.

If there’s no PR risk, there will be many, many more suitors for his services when he hits the market.

by robert_d_wilfong on Jul 13, 2008 10:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

question:

who hits behind Hamilton next year if Bradley isn’t brought back.

David Murphy?
Chris Davis?
Max Ramirez?

...a second-year player hitting clean-up?

...Hank Blalock?

this team would be well-served to seriously consider giving Bradley an extension. how long of an extension should be predicated on how healthy he can stay in the second half.

by oc on Jul 13, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs